Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Round table: Is Suh still an option? Did joint practices matter? Why is there no Mr. Mankato?

Episode Date: August 19, 2022

Matthew Coller is joined by Will Ragatz of Sports Illustrated and Dane Mizutani of the Pioneer Press to talk about the Vikings' training camp, whether they need help on the defensive line, if Chris Reed's injury has forced the Vikings into starting Garrett Bradbury, whether it matters that Nick Bosa smoked Christian Darrisaw a few times in camp and if Sheldon Richardson or Ndamukong Suh are still an option. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, welcome to another Purple Insider podcast. Matthew Collar here. This time I am inside my car because still construction work is going on at my house and I was afraid of rain. And actually, because it did rain around here, the park benches were wet. So that is why I'm inside my car with Will Raggetts of Sports Illustrated, another Raggetts Roundtable, including from the Pioneer Press, Dane Mizutani, and also a new podcaster inside Purple and Gold, which I think probably needs a name change. But I'm excited, Dane, because I think you are one of the most unique commentators on the Minnesota Vikings, and I'm excited for you to have a podcast.

So Will is going to lead the roundtable discussion as always. So where do you want to begin, Will? Well, first I want to say that I think people should recognize the versatility and the adaptability that you are showing here by not only recently recording a podcast in the park, but then with some weather today, recording a podcast in your car. So I just wanted to commend you for that before we begin. Dane, thanks for joining us. Before we start talking about the Vikings, do you want to talk about your podcast briefly and what we can expect from that?

Yeah. So me and Jace Frederick, he's my colleague at the Pioneer Press, one of my really good friends, we're jumping back into the podcast game. We've, we've had two failed podcasts now, and this is the third one. We had one podcast. I think we did like two episodes of, and like just did it on sound cloud. And we were like, this sucks. And so we stopped and then we had a bunker to bunker podcast,

which I think a couple of people listened to a handful of people. But we just got kind of tired of that like honestly like nobody listens to golf podcasts so it just got kind of fatiguing after a while jace was basically the producer i didn't do a lot except talk so i think he kind of got sick of like doing all the work um and yeah now so we're jumping into a third podcast inside purple and gold. Just talking Vikings, kind of trying to find our own niche. There's a lot of Vikings podcasts out there. So we'll just try and bring a little fun, lighthearted commentary to the team that gives a lot of content for that. So can I just say Dane, that I was a bunker to bunker listener

on occasion and what it needed was more about you guys playing golf, because having played a lot of golf with both you and Jace, it is an experience to the point where we've created a brand, Mizutani Golf, to where anytime someone hits a tree and it mysteriously benefits them, it's Mizutani Golf. Anytime someone putts from more than, say, 40 feet away off of the green, it's Mizutani golf. Anytime someone putts from more than say 40 feet away off of the green, it's Mizutani golf. So you, or anytime someone just grips it and rips it, which I think is maybe your best asset as a golfer that you do not care. You do not take many practice swings, hit it and hope and go that is Mizutani golf. So if you had made it all about your brand of golf i think maybe it

would have succeeded well we didn't we should have taken your your expertise as as the the elite podcaster but we didn't do it it's failed and uh here we are now but i'm excited for the other podcast um but excited to be on this one too yeah well i'm not a a golf guy at all but i am excited to talk about the vikings with you guys today recording this on a on a friday coming off of two days of joint practices between the vikings and 49ers leading into a pre-season game that should maybe be a little more interesting than the previous one not that the the raiders game wasn't interesting but i think we might see some starters play a little more i'm not sure kevin Kevin O'Connell did not tell us. He said that we're still formulating that plan, but there are things that we observed over the past couple

of days with the joint practices with the 49ers that I want to get into, and then there are some things that we can be looking for in this second preseason game and going forward with training camp pretty much wrapped up here. I want to start kind of at the back end of some position battles and what we might be looking for in this preseason game from those specific battles. And an interesting one I think is on the offensive line where there are multiple kind of spots at the back end up for grabs. I think we, I think Ed Ingram is going to start at right guard. I think we've kind of come to that realization over the past couple, a couple of days and last week against the Raiders. But Dane, I mean, where do you think the Vikings are going to go kind of after like the top five offensive linemen and then like Jesse Davis,

Chris Reed, do you think they keep like an extra extra tackle or two do they keep more interior depth does Wyatt Davis have a shot what do you what do you think the Vikings are gonna do there and what do we need to see against the 49ers yeah I don't think Wyatt Davis has a chance I think Wyatt Davis kind of just stinks I think we probably thought last year like Zimmer hates rookies Like that's why Wyatt Davis isn't playing, but Wyatt Davis is still running with the threes. And now we're like in year two of his career and he should be jumping, you know, higher in the depth chart in theory, if he's this good player that Mike Zimmer just hated. No,

I don't think Wyatt Davis has a chance, but I think when we look at the depth players on the offensive line, like I think like a player like Ole Udo probably still makes the team, even if maybe he shouldn't like, just because he is someone who offers some versatility. He can play tackle. He can play guard. He can swing like in these positions.

And I think that's kind of what you're looking for after you get your set five out there for your for your starting offensive line i'm not sure it's like a great thing that ole udo is on your roster because like i don't think he's really shown a lot to prove that like you should feel super comfortable if he has to go play some first team reps if someone goes down but he's a guy that i i think will make the team chris reed's interesting to me because it seems like they wanted him to win this starting center job, but he has a broken elbow or something. They say it's day-to-day, but he's missed two weeks now.

So it seems like last week or two weeks ago, they were trying out Chris Reed at center, having him snap dozens of balls to Kellen Ma and Sean Mannion after practice, and then we just didn't see him for two weeks. So his chances of winning the starting center job, having him snap dozens of balls to Kellen Ma and Sean Mannion after practice, and then we just didn't see him for two weeks. So his chances of winning the starting center job, I think, are basically zero at this point because he hasn't snapped in a game. But he's someone I think they could keep around with the maybe thought when he gets healthy, is he someone that can play center?

I think they're still worried about Garrett Bradbury. I think that's pretty clear. Outside of that like i got like blake brando i guess like he offers a little bit of like versatility as a swing tackle um but that's kind of where i stand austin slotman's interesting he played pretty well in like second team third team reps last week but these are all guys that like i'm gonna be completely frank like I don't watch during practice. I just like see them during the games and stuff. And like Slotman was fine. But I'm not like grinding, like how good Blake Brandel has looked today in practice.

So, or, or, or pretending that you can tell, which is one of my favorite things of just like the, the, Oh yeah, well this guy's using this technique or whatever. You're like, Oh oh come on now nobody knows what they're doing uh actually getting dane to say the sentence austin schlottman is interesting is like an accomplishment for this podcast like we he's interesting because garrett bradbury stinks it's like maybe austin schlottman might have to play but yeah he's a center on the roster who isn't garrett bradbury which makes him right

so he falls into this he falls into this category of where and only udo was this guy last year where we're just like this person has a different name from the person we know is really bad. And so let's say that he maybe could do something. With the Chris Reed situation does, I think, throw a wrench in what they wanted here. It looked like, well, you can tell me if you agree with this, but it looked like to me that they were going to do the, well, you know, we gave Bradbury every chance and

then uh well you know Chris Reed just played better you hate to see it even if maybe that was their low-key plan the whole way um because you know there isn't any benefit uh cap wise to cutting Garrett Bradbury so maybe they thought well let's just see how this goes but this guy is our other option and then well this guy ends getting hurt. You're left with Austin Schlottman, who's very clearly a backup. And there isn't like any other way that they can really go except for with Bradbury, because now Chris Reed is so far behind that we are what, like 20 days away from the start of the season. I don't see any way that you could just get Chris Reed prepped and ready to go and fully healthy. And when Kevin O'Connell, this is going to be a fun game to do as well.

Kevin O'Connell seems like he is optimistic just by nature. But if you're overly optimistic with injuries, people are going to get upset with you. So if you say like, well, you know, Chris Reed's day to day, but his arms dang dangling off of his body and, you know, just doesn't play for six weeks. That's not really day-to-day. I mean, I guess it goes back to the old Vin Scully quote of, like, aren't we all? But, you know, the same thing with Irv Smith where he keeps saying, well, he's on pace to play week one. He's on pace to play week one.

But if he's not, then I think everyone's going to go back and go, what happened there if he's not ready to play week one. But if he's not, then I think everyone's going to go back and go, what happened there if he's not ready to play week one? But, you know, it seems to me, Will, that the offensive line and most other positions as far as battles go, even heading into the second game, are kind of set outside of a few depth positions. Yeah, I would agree with that. I also agree with your point about Irv Smith.

Kevin O'Connell has been very optimistic every time we've talked to him. He said, you know, everything coming out of Irv's surgery was phenomenal, like the day after it happened. And now the recent update was, yeah, Irv's doing great. He's on track to start catching balls in the next few days. And so we'll see how that actually plays out. There may be an adjustment period where he realized, okay, I shouldn't't be too optimistic you don't want to be like too pessimistic either but maybe you need to find a a more realistic balance i think the one other position that i'm excited to look for i mean obviously we'll follow like the backup qbs again and the receivers and and things like that but um in the trenches i don't mean mean to like make this a nerdy trench podcast,

but I think that's the other interesting one to watch against the 49ers because like the top three kind of defensive tackle spots are set, but then there are a bunch of guys there who kind of fill different roles that I think you could make arguments for. Like James Lynch, for example, is someone we haven't really talked about that much over the past couple of years since he was a fourth round pick in 2020. But he seems to fit this 3-4 scheme a lot better than he did the 4-3, where he was kind of a tweener. So I think that gives him a shot. I mean, again, like Dane said, these aren't people that we see lots of things from in practice, which makes these games important. jalen twyman is a really cool story but is he making the roster like where does he fit as uh kind of a guy with some pass

rush ability um in this three four i mean jonathan bullard like ty mcgill who had two sacks like is there somebody that dane that stands out to you from like last week's game and, and kind of a skillset perspective that you see being ahead in that race, if, if any, or if, if at all. Yeah. I know my guy, Chris Thomason wants Jalen Twyman to be ahead in this race, but I don't think he is like, I think the guy who's ahead in this race right now is T.Y. McGill. He looked really good in the game last week.

Just impactful plays plays and like talking to donatel like he said the guys who aren't are starting front three like when we're in base have to be able to swing and mcgill can play inside he can play outside um so he's someone who i think you know his tape has shown like he's been in the league for a while but also like if we're just looking at the games that we have or the reps that we have with him in this roster on this team, he's someone who has outperformed everyone else around him. That can obviously change in the next two weeks. Yeah, he's probably the guy I would point to.

I'm just so proud of Dane right now because you two guys couldn't be more opposite in how you think and talk about the team like will loves every position battle ever in existence which of course i'm into and dane likes talking about like what the players are wearing and and and how ridiculous fans are being and so the fact that you could give a legitimate austin schlott T.Y. McGill take, which has anyone seen T.J. Smith and T.Y. McGill in the same room? Like they might be the same person, right? I'm actually, because that was a really good and true answer. But somebody asked me a question though,

and you guys give me your opinion on this, of whether they should still be into the idea of Ndamukong Suh, because that got super hot and heavy for like a day and a half and then totally disappeared. And Indomitian Sioux hasn't signed anywhere. And when I look at the depth on the defensive line, it's not very impressive. But then I looked up last year, I compared Armond Watts to Indomitian Sioux and Armond Watts was way better in terms of his pass rush win rate, his PFF grade, his pressures that he created per pass rush, all those things. And so I'm kind of going like back and forth on that, because when when Dane is here racking his brain, what do I know about T.Y.

McGill that I could say on this show? It means that your depth is like not all that good and I think that even if we've seen some things in general from the whole defensive line including Patrick Jones has kind of ascended a bit here I think DJ Wanham has looked fine but they didn't get a veteran behind Zedarius Smith and Daniil Hunter and really when you look around it's like I don't know what Sheldon is up to but it doesn't seem like he's going to play this year. No one has signed Sheldon Richardson and Sue has expressed interest in playing, but I'm still a little hesitant of that idea because I think it would be good. But I also think if you sign Indomitian Sue, then you have to play Indomitian Sue. So takes. Yeah, I, I, I agree. I think he would be more of kind of a big name

than like a big on-field ad at this point I don't know I think he probably still has something left in the tank but like you said Armin Watts is a perfectly capable like third defensive tackle who has a little pass rush juice you can move him around um I I don't I don't know Sheldon Richardson I think would would be a better fit probably than Indomitian Sioux if he has interest in playing and you remember we were at a practice where I was like I think that's Sheldon Richardson over there I was talking to you guys I'm pretty sure it was because I somebody on Twitter like confirmed that not completely confirmed but like 95% confirmed so if he has interest in coming back this would make sense

even though it's a different uh it's a different defense and coordinator and coaches and all that so i think that would help just as somebody kind of proven there like so you're not counting on like jalen twyman or james lynch or i don't even a sazy otomowo uh as much as possible but um yeah i don't know dane if you have any any takes on that idea i guess i'll stay on brand for caller and say like i'm into the gumdamukongsu because it's fun. Like, he's a fun name to bring in here. And, like, maybe Armand Watts is better than him, like, in PFF. But I think part of that has to do with, like, Armand Watts was rotating in here and there.

He wasn't, like, always going against, like, fresh guys. And I think if that role worked for him last year, bringing in someone like indomitian too to start and still keep arman watching that role albeit a little different role in a 3-4 than a 4-3 but they're gonna be a nickel a lot of the time like yeah it's a fun move and like as long as you don't have to pay him like a bunch of money which i think has obviously been the sticking point and why he's not signed like Like one, he's not as good as he used to be, obviously two, he probably wants a lot of money. So if he's willing to come down on it and the Vikings can just sign him to a one year, whatever deal,

it's a fun thing that gets people excited. And I think it could work. So I'm into it if it's for the right price, but I'm not paying him like, you know, I don't even know, $15 million to come here for one year. It did run through my mind, Will, when you spotted the alleged Sheldon Richardson. Hey, maybe that could be like the name of your podcast, the alleged Sheldon Richardson podcast. But, you know, it ran through my mind that Sheldon Richardson would be the exact type of guy who would tell a team, yeah, I'll sign here, but there is no way I'm playing in camp. I've just had enough of this. Like, I remember when we asked Sheldon Richardson about all the pandemic stuff and the different things that they had to go through with masks and everything else in 2020.

He was like, yeah, it's fine. I just stayed at my house. I don't even like practice it was just like yeah that's so classic and then you know he went out and played pretty well but that's sheldon richardson for you i think he's a better option but i also have these vibes with sue because i agree with you dane that like uh for the podcast numbers the instant reaction would be pretty good but But I also have these vibes of like late career Gerald McCoy, where everyone was like, yeah, he's Zimmer's guy. They should get him. And then he went to the Raiders maybe and just did absolutely nothing. Who was the guy? There was another guy from Cincinnati that was the same way. Geno Atkins. Geno Atkins. Yes. Like, why doesn't Zimmer get? You know, that's who it was. That was the Zimmer guy. You know, Atkins, you know, Atkins. Yeah. Say like, why doesn't Zimmer get, yo, that's who it was. That was the Zimmer guy. I'm not Gerald McCoy. It was like,

yeah, Gino Atkins. Why don't they get him? And then Gino Atkins does nothing. I mean, once those guys are done, the defensive tackles, they're probably done, but they, they could potentially get some help there. I suppose if Richardson just didn't want to go to camp, cause I thought he was actually pretty decent last year. I also wanted to say, I suppose, if Richardson just didn't want to go to camp because I thought he was actually pretty decent last year. I also wanted to say, you know, since I'm saying how proud I am of you guys, we've gone 18 minutes and 29 seconds without talking about the backup quarterbacks as we discuss going into a preseason game. And I'm just I'm happy about that. But if you want to do it we can do it I don't know if there is anything really to talk about like let's let's wait and see how they look in this game it's in that Raiders game I

thought Kellen Mond kind of like took control of that job late by playing well and like showing flashes of things that Sean Mannion just never does, like somewhat high-level quarterback play. And then this week kind of reminded me, like, all right, Kellen Mond still isn't that good. Sean Mannion is on a similar level. So we'll see what happens against the 49ers and if that separates at all. But I know you guys wanted to talk about something from joint practices specifically uh matt viking special teams coordinator matt daniels had some comments about kickoffs dan can you just

explain kind of what was said and what your uh what your take on it was well i don't know how much you guys have talked about matt daniels on this pod but he's the best like he is probably my favorite person to interact with in the vikings building just because he's so he's such a football guy and he's so intense but he's also like kind of like at the same time like really really thoughtful and like like is very upfront and forthcoming with information. Like, I feel like a lot of football guys are like football and we won't tell you anything. And Matt Daniels is like a football guy, but he tells you everything. So we asked him about kickoff yesterday and it was something I noticed in the preseason game. It's not like a genius observation, but like Greg Joseph wasn't putting it it back putting it through the back of the end zone he was trying to it seemed pop the ball up within you know the 10 5 yard line and make the raiders return it so ask matt daniels about his philosophy in that matter and maybe

caller can remember like the four actual things he laid out but he gave us like four like basically talking points on why it makes sense to put the ball in play and i think a lot of it at the end of the day comes down to just letting your guys make a play but i'm all for that like i'm for that school of thought of like why kick it out of the end zone unless you're going against cordero patterson like make that guy return the ball and maybe it's a penalty maybe it's a fumble um but unless he like the chances of him getting past the 25 yard line i think we're lower than him getting tackled inside the 25 yard line so why would you just give them the 25 when you could like make sure that they don't have it or

have an opportunity to yourself i'll jump in and i have it i have it pulled up the four things that matt daniel said can happen on a kickoff when it's returned, I believe, is one, they return it past the 25. Two, we tackle it inside the 25. Three, there's a penalty. And four is they fumble. So three out of the four results are good is his argument, right? Yeah. I like it.

It's definitely more fun than just booting it through the back of the end zone every time and playing like that math game. I think that you would probably have to have a PhD to figure out all of the expected points added and chart those things and everything else to determine. And maybe somebody has the football outsiders or pro football focus people, or the math wizards that have now started creating football charts and things like that. They could probably tell us. In fact, I saw the other day, someone figured out if the punter from the bills, the guy that they drafted, if he was able to punt it out of the back

of the end zone on every punt, it would be the best punter of all time. Like by the expected points added, if you just kick the touchback from every part of the field out of bounds, every time you're the best punter ever. And with this, I just, I don't even want to know, like even as a person who loves data, loves analytics, loves comparing what I'm seeing versus the numbers. I don't even want to know and matt daniel said that he studied it and then he looked at the percentage of times the different things happen i just want kickoffs i want them to happen it's an exciting play it could be an exciting play for the team kicking off where if you get the guy at like a 15 yard line everybody's jacked up the offense comes out they feel like they're pinned way back i mean to

me also when you kick it out of the back of the end zone it gives the offense this chance to like slowly meander out onto the field and like get all settled and everything else as opposed to oh man the other team just made a big play against us and now we're 10 yards back like maybe great teams don't get thrown off by stuff like that but there's a like there's a little advantage there and kenny wongwu or cordero patterson i would not get off kick off to but back in the day they used to really train these kickoff specialists you're like mel gray's and tameric vanovers now it's just kind of like uh who's fast anybody want to give this a try remember when like holton hill was trying it amir abdullah it just kind of like, who's fast? Anybody want to give this a try? Remember when like Holton Hill was trying it, Amir Abdullah.

It was kind of like anybody who doesn't really play. You want to like return pick fours, just stand back there and watch it. I think it could result in giving up some big plays where the other team starts at the 50, but probably way more plays where you gain a little momentum about it. And his point about the penalties, the number of penalties that are called in the league on punts and kickoffs is just totally absurd, which you can use actually in your advantage. And they're all on the return team.

Every time, on the return team, except for when Chris Boyd somehow has like a block in the back three times in a single game. But like this right here, here's why we loved this so much. This is, this would be my theory is that this is the first time we've actually heard a football hack out of this coaching staff. Like the rest of the time, it's like, you know, we're going to do guys and don't tell anybody we're going to marry the run in the past.

We're like, oh, all right. Well, you know, that does happen. I mean, it's just like, you know, Kevin O'Connell's not showing his cards at all. Like you said, Dane, like, like this is the first football hacky thing with numbers that we've actually heard. And Matt Daniels being like, oh, also, I just love football. And that's why, like, I, I cannot, I can't wait for this. I've just gotten so frustrated. We just go get ice cream or whatever during kickoffs. And now we actually are going to have to watch them. I co-sign the,

just the general point about Matt Daniels being awesome. Like just his passion. I mean, he's a special teams coordinator. Like that is a perfect position for you to be very boring and like, not very insightful. I will not name either of the two previous Viking special teams coordinators

that I've covered, but neither was particularly interesting. And they were good people, and they were good at their jobs. But Matt Daniels is really like, he gets really fired up about this. And I think that's awesome. I do question his math a little bit, because he said that he laid out these four possibilities. And then he said there's a 75% chance that the ball doesn't get past the 25-yard line based on that. I don't – that's kind of just giving equal weight to each of those four things. I don't know if that's exactly how it works, but I like where his head's at. I like the spirit of it, and I think it would be fun.

Hey, kick it short. Let him return it. Go draw a penalty or pop the ball out or make a big play and get fired up. Momentum. Huge for the confidence of the guys on the special teams units. Teach your guys to take a dive. Anytime someone, like, touches you in the back, throw yourself on the ground, draw a penalty. There you go.

I love it. Well, another thing – get a little bit ridiculous here is you you mentioned chris boyd and it made me think of uh joint practices yesterday it was a special teams drill actually and he was jawing with a couple 49ers players after the fact uh kevin o'connell and kyle shanahan made like a a big emphasis on not fighting during the uh the the joint practices we saw that a lot around the league my question is this and this may be a completely absurd question is there an argument to be made that they should have allowed fighting to bring out the competitive juices dane what do you think no absolutely not that's ridiculous well me and Jace actually talked about this on our podcast, but like fighting in training camp is so stupid. Like, honestly, the only reason team bonding activity. I'm okay. I'm into it for one reason. And one reason only I would enjoy it. I'd be like, Oh man, I haven't really watched a ton of practice today oh my god a fight but like so i would love that oh i thought you're saying you would enjoy it like as a player but no

you just enjoy watching it i mean i probably enjoy it as a player too call or see me play basketball i get pretty fired up um but no like i feel like fighting is such like a like a stupid thing in these training camp practice especially against like a like a joint practice against another team where like you've really played up the idea that like we need reps like we need we need to see another defense and then like if you're just like one of your reps is going to be like let's just like throw hands like i don't i don't see how that like benefits anyone i think it's fun like i think it would be like a funny, like subplot of a practice. But I'm at,

I think where I lean at the end of the day is like, I'm anti-fighting in practice because it's dumb. Dane is the only person I've ever seen get flagrant fouled in rec league basketball, because he talked so much and played so physically as in like following 11 times in a game that someone got overly frustrated and actually flagrant fouled Dane. So, so you are the type, you are the one that would be like, need to be held back. That's one of my favorite things is like Amir Smith-Marset on the first day got upset and some linemen just

like grabbed him and held him back. It was like, hold me back. Hold me back. As if you're really going to whoop the guy like out here with all the pads on. Like, you're just going to like, I'm going to, I'm going to take this guy down here. And now like, come on. Nobody even gets hurt in these unless they hurt their hands. They also have helmets on. Like, why are they fighting?

They're punching each other in the helmet. They have helmets with extra helmets on them. Like with the the pads that I don't know that actually do anything. So that would have been yeah, that would have been completely ridiculous. I think it goes under the like when we're talking about these joint practices and camp and preseason. One of the thing that always amuses me is like, there's stuff that matters during this time. The right guard position, like definitely matters with this team and it's worth discussion and how people look just to Jefferson,

absolutely mauling the 49ers and making 49ers players retire on the spot was pretty interesting to watch. But then there's just these other things that come up that, that are so funny. It's just like the, the backup quarterback stuff, the they trade alexander madison the no fighting in joint practice it's like we have to check every bingo box of pre-season stuff that we're talking about like oh it's good to go against somebody else out there these reps matter and you're like i guess so

i mean i don't know they threw against the 49ers like nine times like i don't know if this is going to do anything or not right i mean it's just like joint practices are one of those well we definitely have to cover them and then fans want to know like who looks great out there like i don't know i mean they're all pretty good some got you know i like i'm not sure uh you know here's discussion. Do you guys care that a 49ers fan took video of Nick Bosa annihilating Christian Derrissaw on a couple of plays? Well, I was going to say that because I think the three like overarching things from joint practice without having to like get into any like crazy details where one Justin Jefferson torched everybody he went against which to be fair the 49ers were missing like their top two cornerbacks I don't think that would have changed anything if they were playing anyways but I thought that was one the other was from the Vikings perspective like a positive one was I thought Zedarius Smith was

really good uh he like he's someone who's had kind of a quiet camp at times just relative to like his star power and what we've seen him do in the league but he was he was in the backfield a ton um especially yesterday like him Daniil Hunter a lot of the Vikings defensive front was making we're making things really hard on Trey Lance which I think is a good thing and then conversely maybe this is concerning maybe not um the vikings offensive line was pretty awful on thursday like kirk was sacked six times seven times a lot of it was nick bosa but um some javon kinlaw and other people as well the one thing i'll say is like there were a couple reps that i saw where, like, the Vikings put Ben Ellefson on Nick Bosa, which to me is a total, like, there's no way Kevin O'Connell does that in a game.

That's just like, all right, let's – Ben Ellefson's getting this love as a blocker off of this Raiders performance. Like, let's throw him out there against Nick Bosa, see if he has a chance. Spoiler alert, he didn't. But I guess you learned that now. So I'm not overly concerned there were some reps of Derrissaw getting beat and and even Brian O'Neill getting beat but I don't think there's anything to be super concerned about I mean I just think Nick Bosa might just be like freakishly good at football yeah that's kind of where I'm at like

Nick Bosa's really good like that's what that clip told me that circulated the internet like Nick Bosa disrupted the Vikings offense, like on three on back to back to back plays. I mean, what would it have been nice if you're a Vikings fan to see Christian Daris off pancake Nick Bosa? Yeah. But like,

that's probably not going to happen. Like Nick Bosa might be the best pass rusher in the league off the edge or one of the best. So I don't think we learned anything yesterday by that clip. And I don't know if it's fair to judge Daris off of those three clips that have been circulating. Like we don't think we learned anything yesterday by that clip um and I don't know if it's fair to judge Derisov for those three clips that have been circulating like we don't we don't clip the and tweet the clip of him holding his block it doesn't look as cool so yeah and I watched a lot of Derisov versus Bosa on the first day I watched the defense on the second day and I thought it was

a really good battle like they went back and forth. They got each other sometimes. But I think what you touched on, Will, is the exact reason why I'm not. I know for the coaches that some of this stuff is important, especially when it comes to second team players where they're at. And I think that there's a lot of it is. And I think Kevin O'Connell almost admitted to it of like, yeah, they took away our preseason stuff. So this is our response as football men is to make them have these really hard practices. But Richard Sherman, of all people, tweets out this clip and he's just like, yeah, I mean, retire as an offensive coordinator if you actually end up with Ben Ellefson on Nick Bosa, which, as you said, like just will not happen.

I mean, they know that there's fans in the stands videotaping these things and putting them out there. So they're trying to have practices where they run all base stuff that's super vanilla. But then your non schemed base vanilla stuff gets, you know, Ben Ellison destroyed by one of the best players in the NFL. Like, did this accomplish what you were hoping it would accomplish? I'm not sure that it really did. And, and, you know, the other thing I'm not sure about either is like, we've been looking for a player to become like the Mr. Mankato and rise to the challenge, be the guy that everybody's talking about. Like, wow, this guy surprised us. I have not had that experience at all. I don't

know about you gentlemen, but Tristan Jackson is like maybe the closest, but only because reps are happening and not even because there's this daily, like he doesn't even have Alexander Holland's buzz at this moment. I mean, who are we even giving Mr. Mankato to at this point? Because usually the joint practices like, Oh,

this guy really smoked the 49ers like now it's a big preseason game do you have somebody I got nothing so far yeah I don't I'm with you I don't I don't have I don't think there's an obvious answer I think last year was pretty clearly KJ Osborne like just a guy who didn't really do anything in his rookie year and then what kind of popped every single day and also fits the the criteria I like the criteria are important because I think Ed Ingram would be would have a chance but it has to be a third round picker later also has to be somebody who's not like an established NFL player which I think rules out Greg Joseph which is such a which would be such a cop-out answer anyway

because he's a freaking kicker but like he's had a really good camp so I don't know if it's not if it's not those two yeah Tristan Jackson Myron Mitchell like Ty Chan I don't I don't know Dane you got anything I think maybe Ty Chandler but he rolled his ankle like maybe he would have looked good in in Thursday's practice and then if he parlays that into a good Saturday game like he was obviously one of the stars to come out of last Sunday's game against the Raiders. So I think there could have been some Ty Chandler smoke if he wasn't out with an ankle injury for one of the joint practices,

like to you guys point makes a lot of waves as far as the Mr. Mankato resume goes like your joint practice performance. And he didn't get one of those. I think by the end of the preseason, he's someone who could, could launch himself to the top of that list but yeah like it's been a pretty generally boring competition so far um yeah i mean i don't know like normally i gravitate to a receiver and i really haven't this year i i think you can tell we've reached the point in camp where we're just like is football gonna happen soon come? Come on, football. Like, real football. Let's just.

Real, not preseason football. Like, actual football. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you're right about Ty Chandler. That's probably the best one so far because he had a single good preseason game. And then this goes for the ridiculous takes of people wanting to trade Alexander Madison. Like, I do remember when Rock Thomas had a good preseason debut. So, I don't think you should quite be putting a gold jacket on anybody yet,

but to not even have candidates really at this point is pretty surprising. So here's another question that was asked to me on Friday Mailbag. And I'm sorry, Will, if you had more questions and I'm hijacking you here. But somebody asked if I feel any different about anything with this team from the day the training camp started. And I think the answer for me is not really, except for I'm very confident in the way they're handling player health, which is an F-minus hot take. It's just not really that interesting at all but isn't that like the best thing that Kevin O'Connell could have hoped for is that no one like nothing really changed for our minds from the beginning of training camp and our expectations until like three weeks in yeah I think so I mean like yeah there's no major

injuries aside from Irv Smith which is a story in and of itself. I was talking to a 49ers reporter yesterday and like the 49ers have so many soft tissue, like hamstring injuries, like three defensive backs, their top running back. They're right. They're starting right tackle. There's a couple others too. And he's saying that that's not like a bare thing, like that that happens kind of every year. And like Kyle Shanahan doesn't really know how to handle that i think that's a real tangible thing that vikings fans should be

kind of not overlooking and like be excited about i don't want to like talk it up like the vikings players are going to be invincible this year because then they'll probably all get hurt and i'll look foolish but i think there's a real like legitimate thing that they've done with with tyler williams and these other people from the Rams, like the sports science. I don't know what they're doing back there in the training rooms and whatnot, but it's made a real difference. And other teams that aren't doing it might be at a disadvantage. So that's been the one thing, like you said, that stood out. I don't know if anything's really changed.

It's been just a little like, how'd kellen mon do today and uh everything from like a starting perspective like the the players who are gonna play against the packers i yeah i don't i don't know that much has changed the one thing i'll say that i like didn't know was gonna be a thing starting out at training camp or was i unsure of was like is greg joseph actually good like should they have like brought in extra competition because gate burkett or whoever however you say his last name in the spring was like not really good competition he missed like every kick like 40 yards left so it's like did you really even put greg joseph in a kicking competition like no you didn't so i was like a little bit like should they have brought

someone in to at least push this guy like is that like just some football thing that they that i'm just used to because zimmer hated his kicker so much but i was like a little bit like how good is greg joseph actually and he's really good like i guess like we'll know for sure once the season gets underway but there's no reason to not be confident in Greg Joseph moving forward because he's been, like Will said, if he was qualified for Mr. Mankato, he'd probably just win. So he's been good. That's the only thing that's really stood out to me

as far as what have we learned in the past three weeks. Think about these takes. If I'm accumulating takes from this training camp, from the fans and the questions I get the most. And like, one of them is, are you guys jinxing Greg Joseph by telling us how well he's kicking in camp?

Like that's, that is one of the top five most tweeted at me things along with the Madison trade, any backup quarterback take like, like that. Think about like, I was just seeing a report from ESPN today about Matt Rule and how he was going to start P.J. Walker when they have, and I like P.J. Walker from XFL, but, I mean, they drafted Matt Corral,

and they've got P.J. Walker, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, who they're claiming there's still a quarterback competition, but they're not playing them in the preseason game. Like Matt Rule is taken over from some of the other leaders like Joe Judge and Urban Meyer is the most like cartoonish football coach there is. And for for Kevin O'Connell to be this far into training camp with no cartoon moments that the team gets out there, they practice. It seems organized. He hasn't said anything ridiculous nobody has seemed to get mad at him or like take jabs at him in any of the the practices or the press conferences or anything like that it's like if you can survive through this start of the season especially healthy

i think that you've done a really good job it's like i i almost sound like a raving lunatic to say that if you haven't stepped on your own feet and fallen flat on your face, then you're doing a pretty good job. But that is absolutely true so far for Kevin O'Connell. It's like the best case scenario that people are talking about whether we're jinxing Greg Joseph or not. Yeah, I agree. I think, I think Kwesi looks pretty good too. Cause the guard that he selected in the second round that was kind of viewed as a reach or an iffy pick at the time has looked really good to the extent that we can evaluate guard play in these practices and preseason games. I think that's a positive takeaway. It's been encouraging.

The good vibes that we heard about all throughout the offseason with this new regime have kind of continued. So we'll see. There's still three weeks until the opener. Things can change, two more preseason games. But I think you've got to be feeling pretty good if you're a Vikings fan. Even Stefan Diggs tweeted about how much he loves the Minnesota State Bears. It's all coming up Minnesota right now. Okay, I do want to push back a little bit on the Kwesi point

because Kwesi did step on his own foot with the Kirk comment. You're right. And got called out by people with 2 million Twitter followers like Pat McAfee and became a debate show topic instantly, which is not what he wanted. And the other thing is with the right guard competition, yes, Inram is going to win it and i agree that what i see with my eye there looks like there's some good things there

but was it ever real i mean it's jesse davis like you could also say that maybe signing jesse davis was for three million or whatever was just completely pointless then yeah right and it's also a second round guard which might be. Also considering that there's always guards available. And Hey, here's, here's what we should end on is like, since we've been saying that everything is going good and fine and whatever else, the one thing that's not going good is Louis scene. Is Louis seen making the right read? Is he jumping into the right play? But to have joint practices with zero first team reps for Louis seen, it definitely makes you wonder like, is this going how they expected it to go? Because we all thought he was going to start right from day one. Dan, your thoughts.

I think part of that maybe speaks to Cam Bynum but more of it probably speaks to Lewis scene like he's probably just not ready like and maybe that was like an unrealistic like expectation to put on this kid I mean he's a first-round pick like I think that it's reasonable to think he's gonna he was gonna start um but when it became pretty clear quickly that cam bynum is gonna be their starting safety alongside harrison smith and while i think the three safety look that they're going to give at times is interesting like i think that could be a nice wrinkle for a defense i think if like as your defensive coordinator or head coach talking up like oh we're going to use three safeties a lot is almost like a way to couch like,

yeah, Louis seen is not our starting safety. Like you're just talking about like, well, he's going to see the field a lot because we're going to run three safety, but they're not running three safety all the time. And the fact that Louis seen isn't getting these reps right now concerning, I don't know if that's the right word.

I don't know what the right word is. Cause like, it's not like, I'm not worried about like, is he ever going to be a good football player but i think it's reasonable to say like maybe he's not who you thought he was yet or maybe he's behind you know the trajectory that you thought he would be able to take on throughout training camp um talking to him last week though like he seems to have the right mindset like he seems to be like some of these kids like are super hard on themselves.

And like, he came from Georgia's defense and like one of the best defenses of all time in college football. And I could see a kid like that, like not starting and like just breaking their brain. Like, because like, I'm not starting.

He seems to have the right mindset. Like, yes, I'm going to make mistakes. I'm at the right. I'm not necessarily where I want to be right now, but think he's handling this in in the right way um but at the end of the day yeah like i thought he would at least be sniffing some first team reps um and he's not so that's significant to me yeah i think scene and andrew booth to some extent are kind of like in a strange

position where they've showed some good things but they've also showed like they've offered plenty of reminders that hey we are we are rookies we have a long way to go and i think in some ways they play like more challenging positions to learn as a rookie than like a guard like ed ingram does where it's just like all right let me fire off the ball and hit you i'm not there's communication and there's various different kinds of blocks, but playing defensive back in the NFL is such a complex thing. So I haven't been super discouraged by either of those, but I think, and I will say,

I don't think you can completely rule out either scene or booth starting week one with three plus weeks to go. It'll probably be the cams buying them a Dantzler, but I don't think you can rule that out. And, and I will say, I don't think I'm discouraged by their long-term prospects, even if they don't necessarily start week one. I don't know. Yeah. I think with, with scene much more than booth, it would raise an eyebrow for me and I'm not declaring busts,

but safeties have come in the league and had in fact pff studied this that like they've had one of the easiest learning curves overall that doesn't mean it's every applies to every circumstance but like the derwin jameses or the uh was it uh malik hooker who was the guy who came in was that his name who came into the the dolphins last year it was like an javon Holland. Oh, Javon Holland. Yeah, that's right. So it was like. There have been a lot of these in recent years.

I remember looking at this, who have come in and been good right away. And so I think it was a reasonable expectation. If he's not good this year and isn't in the game a lot, I'm going to really wonder what happened there. Because Cam Bynum is a fourth round pick with like limited upside. There's there's, it's not, it's a high bar, but it's not like an insanely high bar to be crossed. And yeah, I also wouldn't rule out that it eventually happens. So, you know,

I think it's something to definitely watch, but maybe we can, maybe we can end on this Dane, give me one totally off-the-wall thing that you are looking forward to with the Vikings' second preseason game. Totally. Give me something random that you want to see. I got you. I'm looking forward to which player makes Vikings Twitter

just, like, become a take machine. Like, who is it going to be this time? Like, it was Kellen Mah this time like it was kellen mon and it was mainly wangu and chandler last week let's trade alexander madison because these two guys looked really good carrying the ball in the second quarter like which player is it going to be this week that people are like yeah you know what johnny Munt looks so good who cares if Irv Smith comes back like you know like something's gonna happen on Saturday night and it's Saturday night game so it's six o'clock fans are gonna be drinking they're gonna be on their Twitter machines and they're gonna be

tweeting some dumb stuff so that's what I'm looking forward to um probably more than the game itself because by like third quarter like like I'm going to be honest, I'll probably tune out of watching every single play very intently because it doesn't really matter. I don't think I can top that. I think, I think let's leave it on that. I like it. It's the only reason to watch preseason football. Thank you so much for your time, Dane,

and good luck with the allegedly Sheldon Richardson podcast. And we will, we will talk to you guys. Or, well, I'll see you out there, Dane, of course. And we'll have another show next week that we've already got kind of scheduled. And I think it should be a really fun one. So we'll talk to you guys soon. See you guys.