Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Roundtable thinks the Vikings might be buyers if they beat the Packers

Episode Date: October 26, 2023

Matthew Coller, Will Ragatz of Sports Illustrated and Andrew Krammer of the Star Tribune discuss the Vikings' matchup with the Green Bay Packers and what they think will carry over against Green Bay. Will a win cause them to buy? How could they do that without messing with the future? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

🎵 Hey everybody, welcome into another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here, and it is once again a Raggetts Roundtable Inside TCO Performance Center with Will Raggetts from Sports Illustrated and Andrew Kramer of the Star Tribune. And there's a lot of different places we could start. We were discussing just before we went on the potential trade scenarios for the Vikings, which could go a lot of different ways. Oh yeah. There's a game against the green Bay Packers. We had hugs during the coordinator press conferences. Where do you want to start? Well, I think we got to start with the hugs at least, at least briefly. I mean,

what a morning here in Eagan. All right um wes phillips revealed to us that dalton reisner when he had his visit to tco performance center gave him a hug which could be look the hug that changed the trajectory of the season i don't know who's to say uh but uh you know apparently dalton reisner is a hugger so i asked wes phillips if he wanted to hug me and then he did and it was fine uh but then matt daniels he heard about the hug and then he wanted to hug and i gotta say one of those guys played in the nfl and the other guy didn't that's my analysis of the hugs that i got so i i feel pretty good you know what a good solid hug like a good solid man hug that That'll get you going. You beat the 49ers and all of a sudden you're just hugging the beat reporters.

It's incredible. It was, it was a great game plan. You should be very impressed with himself. There's always something different or interesting that happens on these coordinator Thursday mornings, but I did not have a collar hugs two out of the three coordinators on my bingo card. And and i we knew no matter what brian flores was not hugging matthew collar that was no and i wasn't asking

brian flores even talked about like the vikings were doing all their celebrations on monday night and having a great time and he said you know i don't look like i'm having fun but i am having fun too and i just don't express it outwardly so maybe that means he doesn't look like he wants to hug me but actually he does maybe i'm not gonna try that out don't test it don't express it outwardly. So maybe that means he doesn't look like he wants to hug me, but actually he does. Maybe. I'm not going to try that out. Don't test it. Don't test it.

Regarding the football and not the hugs, which, hey, look, if they win this, there will be a lot of hugs in the locker room because they will be back to 500 after such a miserable start. Where do you want to begin with Vikings Packers or trade implications or whatever's on your mind? It's the Raggetts round table. It is. I think just kind of the fundamental thing that I've been thinking about

since that game, which was by far the best Vikings performance of the season, complimentary football, all the things Kevin O'Connell talks about. Is this maybe the actual version of this team that was being kind of hidden by all of these weird fumbles and just various things where they weren't executing early in the season and they were losing by small margins like is this I'm sure it is what the coaching staff envision and it's what Kweisi Adafomensa envisioned when he was kind of adjusting this roster this offseason should we view what we saw on Monday night as maybe the new normal or at least close to that because if it is

I think they're really poised to go to Green Bay and beat this Packers team because the Packers haven't been able to stop much on defense especially the run which will help the Vikings out because they've been struggling in that area a little bit Jordan Love's been throwing a bunch of interceptions recently and looks like a prime guy to get flustered by Brian Flores's two straight really strong defensive performances or was this just kind of a, you know, they got up for this one in prime time and it's an aberration and we're going to kind of be going up and down with this team all year. Yeah. I think we need to take it in context of this entire season and body of work. And right now we finally saw what Kevin O'Connell has been saying. We've been chasing our kind of most

complete best performance. And to date, that was it. Now, Kirk could have made some better throws. You could add some plays here or there, but overall that was the best Vikings version we've seen in 2023. And because of that, you see the potential and without Justin Jefferson, boy, what could that look like once they get him back as they figure out how to use Addison as Hawkinson plays better. Maybe Madison drops fewer passes down the line and they figure out their, their backfield situation. But I think the offensive line was phenomenal. All those things.

And then you mentioned the confidence people are building in Brian Flores and what he's able to do. But at the same time, every given Sunday, you see a different version of this team show up, or you see a different version of Hawkinson show up or cousins or the individual key players. And until we see them truly continue to do this against Green Bay and then against Atlanta the week after that if they seem to catch fire and catch a roll and you think boy

this is the time that they can kind of put some wins together here and you see that kind of kind of coalesce I think then we can start to buy it but would we be shocked if all of a sudden we get to Lambeau and it's a bad first half and we're sitting at halftime going boy they're gonna have coalesce, I think then we can start to buy it. But would we be shocked if all of a sudden we get to Lambeau and it's a bad first half and we're sitting at halftime going, boy, they're going to have to fight to win this game. You're saying you want to see it more than once? Yes, I would like to see it more than once. And I do think there is something to be said for, as you mentioned, showing up for a big game and kind of getting up for it. And there's a lot of talk about how this offensive line met the challenge. We'll do it when it's Carolina next time. Do it when it's not

one of the primetime games where you want to make a statement. And I like to think of things a lot of times through baseball terms because they're the clearest to think about with like numbers and analytics and stuff like that. And the way that game went was as if hitters number one through nine all went three for four two for four it was like everybody at the same time had a great day and then all the pitchers threw their best game at the same time and you beat a team that's way better than you i mean even the worst teams in major league baseball history win like one out of every three games because sometimes you just you know have a bunch of guys all play really well uh but in football, we just go, oh, well, you did everything right. That's who you are. That's who

you're supposed to be. We saw TJ Hawkinson by PFF, the third best game of his career graded wise. He was phenomenal. No drops, no fumbles, but also blocking chips. He got manned up on Nick Bosa on a play and, and held him uh not like illegally like i've held him from killing the quarterback uh the tackles we expect to be great on a weekly basis but everybody else is kind of you know brandon powell had some huge catches kj osborne there was a throw that kirk made kind of off balance a little bit. Osborne did a full dive out, grabbed it, and pulled it in for a first down. We haven't seen him ever do that. Like everybody was amped up for that game.

And then on the defensive side, apparently a concussed Brock Purdy threw them the ball at the end of the game where they could have lost because some of the shortcomings where they don't finish a third and four and they don't finish a couple of red zone trips those were painted over by the fact that the result was that they won but we still saw the best game you could play you scored 22 points at the end of the day they have no 30 point performances all year yet so far which says to me that you talk about any given sunday like there's enough weaknesses here where some people in your lineup go over

for, and you're a mediocre team that every game you're not a team that can have a complete lineup. So you kind of have to live and die on like who's hot today and hope that it's everybody. The thing about the Packers though, is that it probably doesn't take everybody in order to beat a team. That's pretty mediocre.

Yeah. I can go both ways on this when I'm thinking about it. And the first six weeks of the season, I mean, I was sitting there at Soldier Field, they're playing the Bears. And I'm like, this is a bad team because that was a bad, that's a bad Bears team, even though they just beat the Raiders. Like the way that the Vikings played in that game was really, it had me convinced that this season was not going anywhere and they should probably be sellers. And I'm looking at it like,

okay, they've lost to everybody they've played except for Caroline and Chicago, who they barely were able to beat. I just, I don't see how this thing's going to come together. And that I, before the season we were talking, I predicted they'd go 11 and six.

I bought into the Kevin O'Connell year two. I bought into the Brian Flores stuff and it just wasn't happening. And then one week later it it does a complete 180. And I'm sort of starting to get sucked back in by what I saw because I think the sustainable elements, you're not going to get three turnovers every game. You're not going to have Kirk Cousins play the game of his life every game. What you are going to have every week is two extraordinarily good tackles and an interior offensive line that's suddenly playing really well. A bunch of versatile pieces pieces a guy who leads the NFL in sacks and Daniel Hunter so I just to me there are some things there especially with the offensive line and what that can do for Kirk

Cousins because that's been one of the big things this entire Kirk Cousins era is when he has time he can carve you up and he can make the right reads it's when he's under siege and forced to play out of structure and things like that that it doesn't go great. But even against a Packers front that's given him trouble a lot of times in the past, I just have a lot of confidence right now in this offensive line, particularly Christian Derrissaw, who every week just doesn't let up anything.

And I fear this coaching staff is going to screw up and put Ezra Cleveland back in the lineup if he's healthy because we saw a walkthrough, or at least the portion we could watch on practice on Wednesday this week it was Cleveland in the first team group that was walking through with the offense as Reisner was watching now that can change when we have to leave practice but to your point that group played great with Reisner they played Ed Ingram played a more consistent game a game that he had played well against the Chiefs before playing poorly in Chicago. It's just the up and down thing. Now are we headed toward another spike or, excuse me, dip in his production this week

in Green Bay against Kenny Clark against a pretty difficult Packers front. They need to find some consistency with that group to continue to have a chance because so much every week is going to be put on Kirk Cousins to do this. And now he has to do it without Jefferson again and without a running game that has yet to produce a rushing touchdown. The hardest thing I think in this entire sport and what makes it so fun to talk about is trying not to be a prisoner of the moment because, you know, you mentioned the sustainable elements. Did they change rosters since Chicago and they got these things or like one guy? I mean, Dalton Reisner is playing. It's like in Chicago, all the same players traveled back to Minnesota with them. Uh, they, they weren't the, the

monsters didn't take their talent in Chicago. And yet that team put up one offensive touchdown in that game against a truly horrendous, uh, Chicago team. And I would like to look a little bit at San Francisco on this and wonder about their defensive coordinator, uh, Chicago team. And I would like to look a little bit at San Francisco on this and wonder about their defensive coordinator, uh, and the approach to playing against the Vikings because receivers were wide open. Uh, their blitzes did not get home, but it seemed like they didn't understand that the Vikings had good offensive line. Like they, they thought maybe cause in the past they've just run right through them, that that's what they were going to do. But blitzing Kirk cousins has never been a great idea.

Like the way that Chicago beat Cousins was they played like quarters too deep. They played off and they said like, let's see you just kind of sit back there and find your guys when we've got all that coverage out there. And the 49ers were wildly aggressive. Kind of reminded me of what Seattle and Pete Carroll used to do against them. And Kirk would carve them up every time. Like, does nobody notice this? That if you play coverage against Kirk it's so much harder and I think that that's the week-to-week element is it's how do they play how do they game plan against Kirk Cousins and the Packers have seen him many times and sometimes with this system

it's been bad like it was last year. And sometimes, you know, he has taken advantage of the Packers. So that's, that to me is the roller coaster element is how does the other team game plan to play against you? Because the 49ers in my mind, and this is not to take credit away from anybody, but especially the all out blitz at the end of the half with seven seconds left, there was a lot of, when I watch back on tape, I don't understand why you're doing this when your, you know, frontline can get home, why you're being as aggressive as you are against this team. So that to me is usually the determining factor of what we get from this

offense. Yeah, there's always, Kirk Cousins says this, you don't want to get too high in wins. You don't want to get too low in losses. It's always somewhere in the middle. But it is shocking how different the last two games were. Against Chicago in the second half in particular, they had like, what, one or two first downs the entire half.

They couldn't move the football. And that's not a great Bears defense. Against the 49ers, they could. You're right, they haven't put up 30 points all year. They could have. If they can just execute in the red zone when they get down to the one one or two yard line which continues to just blow my mind that they can't convert any of those it's only team in the league without a rushing touchdown if they can just figure something out there they were moving the ball basically every series against a really good

49ers defense which albeit maybe had a questionable plan but I don't know I I can so I can talk myself into believing in it that way that there was even more maybe left out there for that team against the 49ers. On the other hand, if Jordan Addison doesn't kind of pull a miracle and wrestle the ball away from Traverius Ward right before halftime, maybe that game looks a lot different. If Brock, maybe if Brock Purdy, everything was right in his head the last five minutes of the game, he doesn't throw two interceptions and that could be different. But I don't know. I'm inclined to believe that this team is a little bit closer, at least to the 49ers side of things in that performance than against the Bears. I think maybe that was a weird situation, whereas the first game without Jefferson, you're trying to

figure some things out that way. And Kevin O'Connell, I didn't think called a great game, called a great game. He did call a great game against the 49ers. So there's some adjustments there. I just, I'm inclined to believe they're a little bit more like what we saw on Monday, but I need to see it again. I need to see some consistency. I need to see a running game. And yeah, I mean, to your point, like just play Cam Akers and Dalton Reisner. I mean, the kind of tendency that they've shown to hold on to these guys, Alex Madison,

and I don't think Ezra Cleveland's had a bad year, but to me, Reisner should be the left guard until he proves that he shouldn't be. And Cam Akers should be getting 60, 70% of the touches in this backfield. I don't know what more you need to see when you get the first snap of Dalton Reisner starting for you is the longest run of your season, 19 yards with Alexander Madison. And it's with Reisner shoving Javon Hargrave 20 yards downfield to the point where Hargrave makes the tackle because he's on the train that in the tracks. And that was a run where with the hole there, if you have like Akers or Chandler, that might be more than 20 yards.

True. That's true. And so I just think you saw enough. You see the production, you see Akers slip tacklers in between the tackles on the edge and the screen game, the passing game. You don't see him droppinglers in between the tackles, on the edge, in the screen game, the passing game. You don't see him dropping passes or fumbling. What more do you need to see at this point? Because frankly, Madison has not played well, and he didn't bounce back the way that Hawkinson did, even though he did find some room in the running game. I put more of that on the offensive line and what they were able to do up front.

And there was a play where the offensive line got it wrong. Dalton Reiser went left first and then realized, uh realized like oh i'm supposed to combo block with the center and and then fred warner came completely free at cam acres and acres did a hesitation and then like kind of jump cut and got 13 yards or something it was like oh yeah running back stuff like that i mean look we know what kind of runner madison is that he is a straightforward type of truck kind of runner. But sometimes you need to make the offensive line right. And I do agree that if they pull Reisner after that, it is going to be a little bit suspicious. Like why after that performance? And you can't tell me he's not up to snuff enough with the offense when he just played against such a great defensive line. I think they should go with both of those guys. And that's where you could argue that they're a stronger team with them than, why are some of the older reporters, why are they so stodgy? What is their problem?

Maybe it's that after how many years we've seen all of the highs and lows of this offense when operated by this quarterback. And so you come out of certain games and go, oh, my gosh, he could not have been better. That was unbelievable they have a great quarterback holy cow and then the next game you go what what huh what and so that's why i know you said you want to see it more often but there's a part of me that is thinking about the decisions that have to get made based on this and how much do you react to what you just saw and and does this Packers game prove anything either because like they're not good they have the same number of wins as the Chicago Bears and I think it's a big challenge for the front office to try to determine like is the ceiling

going to be where you sit at or where you just bump into on one Monday night. Yeah. With, with rising and briefly, I mean, it's not like this guy played the game of his life or had an 85 PFF grade like Christian Derisar or anything like that. There, there were some plays where maybe he's not as fleet of foot as, as or Cleveland as a puller. But I just think when, when your entire offensive line plays that well to take one element out of it and mess with it that just seems like overthinking it to me I think on the other side of the ball I if we're talking about things that are maybe repeatable or sustainable versus things that might have just been a one-time thing I think I mean it's two straight games now of this Brian Flores defense where I come away thinking

he called a great game for that opponent and for what they wanted to do on offense and he's adapting his personnel each week they're using Ivan Pace Jr. a bunch early in the season thinking he called a great game for that opponent and for what they wanted to do on offense. And he's adapting his personnel each week. They're using Ivan Pace Jr. a bunch early in the season, and then he barely played in this game. And they had one linebacker and they had a bunch of down linemen and thought Harrison Phillips played pretty well. And they held a great Christian McCaffrey running game to not doing all that much. I mean, McCaffrey scored two touchdowns, but they weren't that efficient on a run-to-run basis. To me, the Brian Flores thing, I kind of believe in the guy and his ability to come up with these game plans. And sometimes it's not going to work against Patrick Mahomes and Justin

Herbert. And you can say that maybe they should have adjusted a little bit there, but those are great quarterbacks. You look at the Vikings schedule, you don't see a bunch of great quarterbacks coming up. It's Jordan Love this week, and then it's Desmond Ritter, and it's whoever's playing quarterback for the Raiders, and whoever's playing quarterback for the Bears again. And I just, that to me is something, if you're trying to point to reasons why they might be able to start to stack some wins, I think Brian Flores is a big part of that.

Yeah, especially when you look at their schedule and you don't see a ton of quarterbacks who have the pelts on the wall that Jalen Hurts, Justin Herbert, Patrick Mahomes have. And I don't think it's a shock or coincidence that those are the quarterbacks who have really beaten this defense. It's the quarterbacks who can transcend the scheme and say, I don't care that you're bringing more than we can block or more than we're capable of blocking. I'm going to sidearm this over Josh Metellus and get a touchdown like Herbert did to whoever par hum the tight end. So I think you're going to see that when you finally face quarterbacks who are truly better than your personnel, you're going to see Flores can only do so much, but he's going to be able to make Jordan Love look bad. He's going to be able to

make Desmond Ritter look bad. He's going to be able to make probably Russell Wilson in that Broncos offense look pretty bad in this kind of stretch that we're looking at for this team. The question I have for this defense is, is what they did against the running game of San Francisco without Trent Williams sustainable? Because I don't think San Francisco's offensive line is that good. I don't think Green Bay's offensive line is that good. We're probably going to see some more of the same on Sunday, which is good for the Vikings, but Atlanta's offensive line is pretty good. You're going to face some other offensive lines down the road, like Detroit that are pretty good. And we've seen them get mauled up front in other games. This is the performance that, that surprised me. Maybe the most was that Dean Lowry,

Jonathan Bullard. Um, these guys were making plays. Jaqueline Roy had a run stop. Like what was happening on the interior of that San Francisco line? And is that actually sustainable for the Vikings against an opponent that is going to get better in matchups? Because it doesn't get much worse, I think, than some of those individual linemen for San Francisco. I want to remind you guys to make Little Caesars, the official pizza sponsor of the NFL. Order online during their pizza pizza pregame, one hour before NFL games and get ready for some football and fun. Choose your favorite little Caesars pizza or pick up the toppings

you crave. Either way you win. And speaking of winning, everyone scores with convenient delivery or their in-store pizza portal pickup. So grab some friends, enjoy a few slices during the tastiest hour before kickoff pizza pizza. Also prize picks. I'm going to be watching a couple of my prize picks on Monday night. It should be very exciting. If you haven't heard of it, then you haven't been listening to the show. And if you have, you know how much a part of this show prize picks has become. All you have to do is pick more or less between two and six player stat projections.

That's a lot of different stuff. Yardage, touchdowns, you can do field goals, points by field goal kickers, and lots of other sports as well. So you're going to want to check that out. All it is, more or less, it's that simple. So if you go to prizepicks.com slash purple, use the code purple for a first deposit match up to $100.

Very simple. One of the reasons I love it, you don't have to put down a huge amount of money or time we do it on the show here in about 30 seconds i make my picks that quickly and submit them as soon as we've contemplated and thought deeply about the picks um very very easy to do Not very costly either. So it's a lot of fun. PrizePix.com slash purple with the code purple. Daily fantasy sports made easy. I definitely came away thinking, I don't believe San Francisco can actually make the Super Bowl because of the offensive line and because of some of their weaknesses,

I think, in the defensive coordinator situation that those things are going to cost them eventually. I was very surprised at how well they stopped the run against that team because we know that Kyle Shanahan loves to run the football and keep pushing the run button. And yet three yards to carry for Christian McCaffrey is one of their best things to highlight for the entire year for this defense. The Brian Flores thing is interesting because I think he's squeezing every ounce out of this. He's using every player. I asked him about it today, and he didn't hug me, even though it was a great question. But here comes Kyrus Tonga, who was inactive, but it was kind of a,

oh, we think that this guy's going to work for this game. And it's so much different from what we've seen in the past, which was you guys are the starters you play. And maybe there's like one row. Maybe there's like Ben Gideon is like the one rotational player. And Brian Flores is saying every football player we got is here for a reason. And you're all going to contribute, which is great. But it also is sort of a sign that they know they have to kind of squeeze every,

every tiny little edge that they don't have good enough players to just play all the plays. So you got to figure out like, can we use this tiny little matchup? So he's done a great job. You're also like an injury or two away from, you just don't have anybody on this defensive side as we sort of project forward. So there's a part of me that thinks like you you have too many holes to start making trades where you add for people and to believe that you're just going to scream through all those bad teams when they've shown enough shortcomings to lose games against teams like atlanta teams like new orleans for example you're not just going to win all these games in a row but then brian flores makes me think but we shouldn't waste brian flores's time like you hired him to turn around this defense and he's done it and if

you take away daniel hunter from him he's totally screwed you know like there's dynamics within this discussion that go beyond just hey they have like a one percent chance of winning the super bowl so you should like get rid of guys and don't worry about the upcoming schedule. But then there's another part that's like maybe Flores' defense could go on a like serious run here and they could be in the top 10 after the next six games. Yeah. First of all, I didn't expect to hear Ben Gideon's name on the podcast. I enjoyed that. I also saw a clip from the Manning cast. They had Aaron. No, it was it was Rogers on on McAfee and he was talking about Harrison Smith and he was talking about Harrison Smith, and he was talking about how those Mike Zimmer defenses and disguises

used to give him problems. He talked about Harrison Smith and Anthony Barr and Eric Hendricks. And then he mentioned Captain Munnerland, which I thought was just super random. And Aaron Rodgers, like, I appreciated that as somebody who watched those defenses. Emmanuel Lemur mixing in every once in a while. Yeah.

Tom Johnson. It's a good segue, though, your actual point, into a discussion about the trade deadline. And it's really early in the NFL. I still feel like we're early in the season. We're like a third of the way through, but I guess we're coming up on the midpoint. But you have one more game against Green Bay,

and then two days later, that's the trade deadline. And before Monday night, I'm thinking, all right, this team's probably selling i mean if they had lost to the bears then for sure but even beating the bears i'm like this this team is not going anywhere they need to focus on the future and think about maybe getting some assets to help move up for a quarterback next year daniel hunter with his value being where it is could could probably fetch you a decent. And now it's like, how far do we lean to the other direction? Do we even have a conversation about the idea that

Kweisi could go out and we know he loves to make trades. Could he go out and not make a splash move and give up a ton of capital for a Saquon Barkley or Chase Young or just a big name that is going to be floated out there, but make some little move on the margins like we've seen from him before and go get a run stopping defensive tackle. If we don't believe that maybe Dean Lowry's play is sustainable or go get another edge rusher. Since I don't know how much you can count on Marcus Davenport to come back from IR and stay healthy and be who he was in those two games we saw. Like, I don't know, to your point, if you believe in Brian Flores and his ability to game plan and what he's been able to do with these three safeties and what he's been able to kind of

season Jordan Hicks is having and Daniel Hunter. And like, if you go get another just rotational level piece or two that can contribute in some of the areas where you're weak, maybe it's a cornerback. I don't know that could help. And this defense could start to help you win not all the games, but a lot of games against these teams that you look at the schedule and they don't really scare you. Yeah, I think that Niners win changed everything. I think if they're sitting here at two and five, we're having the discussion of, well, if you're two and six, it's rip off all

the pieces, sell the brass tacks, everything. And I think now you're looking at it more like, well, you just saw the complete performance that you want to envision every week. And as much as we talk about inconsistency and wanting to see it more, they're the ones who are going to think, no, we're capable of putting that out every week and being that team that doesn't turn the ball over, that forces the issue and that changes things. And so they're going to have, whether it's hubris or just confidence, a fact of knowledge that they think that they can do that. And I don't think that we should look at that lightly. I think we should think that they're probably going to try to find ways that you're saying of improving this team, piecing it together and trying to make

the most of what might be Kirk Cousins' last season in Minnesota with Justin Jefferson not having a season-ending injury. Coming back now, probably more excited to come back to a team that is relevant potentially in November and December and beyond. As much as I might question how far this team can go, I think that we've seen from this front office enough, whether it was the Hawkinson move last year, the Reisner-Akers moves this year, keeping Daniil Hunter and not trading him, they're going to do everything they can to try to lean into that competitive side of that competitive rebuild. And if it's especially a piece that they

can bring in like a Hawkinson or Akers where you can envision a future beyond this year with that player, that makes even more sense and more of a fit than just a one-year rental or six-month rental. And I think that giving Kevin O'Connell a chance to make the playoffs after going 0-3 and then turning it around and potentially getting to 500 here, all bets are off. They lose to Green Bay. That is a bad Green Bay team. We're going to talk about it. Not a good quarterback. You lose to Green Bay, you go to 3-5.

Nobody deserves a chance. I don't know. They might still think, hey, you know what? Bad game. Explain it away. I'm just saying that if you're playing devil's advocate of that confidence or arrogance of a coaching staff or a front office that put this team together that just won on monday night i don't know it would have to be a pretty debilitating loss let me think of it let me put it this way in in my analysis of it sure in my analysis of it i can't forgive you

for adding pieces or not trading daniel hunter if you're three and five if you are four and four and this is it's funny like living on the razor's edge as this team always does of like one win changes their trajectory of who they're going to be which is how it's been around here for a long time but if they are four and four then their playoff odds are probably a coin flip and then considering what we know about the teams coming up it's probably better than that and then i would say all right you have to give them a chance to make the playoffs because you said competitive rebuild not rebuild so you you have to see if you could trade a fifth round pick for an additional piece as you mentioned or somebody who's a rotational pass rusher for another team didn't wasn't it the dolphins who traded for like melvin ingram in the middle of the season from no pittsburgh got him from the

dolphins whatever order that was in. But like he was really effective down the stretch. So sometimes you can find a guy that hasn't fit or whatever and bring him in and give him, you know, give you a hand, an interior rush or something like that. Where it gets really interesting is if you're four and four and you're talking about some of the bigger fish that could be on the market which they got one of them last year and how much do you believe that you should be in play for those teams or for those players as well with the truly competing teams how far do you feel you're away from philadelphia or from san francisco in the hole not just on one night where they turn the ball over a few times right right? Like how far do

you, when you look at your team and your roster and your numbers and all those things, believe you're away. And if they were able to make a move where they could extend the guy, like they did with Hawkinson, I mean, I would give major credit to that. I mean, draft picks are kind of coin flips and they got a 26 year old player who is is very talented, hasn't had the best season, but was great against San Francisco. If there's another version of that, then you can split the difference. And I remember Kwesi talking about now and later. If they do that, wouldn't it be perfect? A 4-4 team in a competitive rebuild doing a now and later trade.

That seems so appropriate to me. Yeah, I think there's a difference here in our discussion between like what we would do maybe and what we think they might do. To your point of just the confidence that comes with being a part of the team, being a front office and coaching staff and the team that you put together. Like I don't even if you're four and four and you beat Green Bay, they're probably not going to beat Green Bay convincingly because they never beat anybody convincingly. But I don't, to me, you still have to be prioritizing the future over the now because of what we've seen with the large sample size of Kirk Cousins and of this roster and where it is. So like, that's where, I mean, this would be insane, but to like float the idea of trading a first for Patrick Sertan or something from the Broncos. Like You can't do that because you have to be thinking about the quarterback situation still and what your future is there.

I think maybe a slightly smaller fish. I saw somebody say they should trade for Tyre Tart. Remember the guy who threw Garrett Bradbury 40 yards in a joint practice? A defensive tackle like that who can actually bring some pass rush, which Bullard and Phillips and Lowry do not do and I they played Jaqueline Roy two snaps last week even though one of them was really good but they don't trust him very much right now like that that kind of addition I think would be really helpful but yeah I mean to your earlier point like I'm watching Jordan Addison and I'm watching TJ

Hawkinson play on Monday night I'm thinking oh this this offense is going to get back the best wide receiver in football yeah how good can they be if they start to get a little bit of semblance of a run game and the offensive line can continue to play at this level? And I mean, there's going to be fluctuations all year. It's the Vikings. It's what they do. They're going to lay an egg against some bad team. But I think more often than not, if you get Jefferson back, and we still don't know what the exact timeline of that is, but you can talk yourself into the offense being pretty good in that situation. You can talk yourself into Brian Flores.

So I don't know if they should do it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they viewed it that way and they went out and added instead of subtracting from the roster. Yeah, I don't think you can be sellers at this point. And maybe you should be. Maybe there's an argument before we started recording. I was saying my personal argument would be you still should look long-term and think this team is not Super Bowl worthy right now with the personnel on defense.

But they might say, hey, we just beat a Super Bowl-worthy team. Sure, exactly. And you went toe-to-toe with Patrick Mahomes at home and at least made it close. So I just think in general, though, this team is going to think that it's got a shot and that it can be relevant and that it can make a run with Kirk at this age, at this window of what he costs, why waste that opportunity if there is one? And I get that. And so I think if they're not going to be sellers, I think there is an argument to be buyers. I mean, shoot, if Patrick Sertan were available, that's the kind of fit I'm talking about, where if you

bring in a guy like a Hawkinson, where it's not just about the competitiveness this year, it's about bringing in a blue chip piece that can truly help you rebuild this franchise. It's both. Tart makes sense because he'd probably be more affordable when it comes to that. And that's a piece you've been drastically missing. What wouldn't make sense to me is more of that Ingram's, that six-month older pass rush rental, where it's like, what are you really doing right now? You are just trying to capitalize on 2023. You're not really building for the future. That's the part I wouldn't, I wouldn't totally get to me. Quacey does have that mind of like looking to the future. And I would think any addition is

going to be somebody that they think could fit 2024 and beyond. Guys, I know that you might act tough and pretend that you don't care about how the skin on your face looks, but we all want to show up to football parties and holiday get togethers looking good. That's where Caldera Lab comes in. Over 100,000 men trust Caldera Lab because of the way they give you an easy skincare routine that turns into clear skin. And hey, it makes for a great gift as well. You're going to want to try the Regimen, which has three simple parts. One of them is called the Clean Slate. It is a face wash that leaves you feeling refreshed.

Also, the base layer moisturizes and hydrates. And the Good helps your skin look tighter and smoother and dare I even say younger, which a lot of us could use. We have all looked in the mirror and thought, when did I start looking like that? Well, trials have shown 94% of men showed improvement in their appearance after using Caldera Lab. So just for you guys, use the code insider at calderalab.com. Get 20% off right now. That is 20% off at calderalab.com with the code Insider to make unforgettable first impressions with the best gift for this holiday season. I mean, if you're giving up a fifth round pick for a rotational pass rusher, I mean, it's not like you're trying to develop other guys for the future because the other

guys are not going to be foundational pieces. If there was a first round pick pass rusher who hadn't put it all together yet and they got a veteran to take his snaps, then I'd be like, whoa, what are we doing here? But I mean, we've seen a lot of Patrick Jones and DJ Wanham. I don't think I need to see more of that. And if you it's all about in my mind if you're not giving up too much to get some other additional piece if you're looking at the landscape and believing in yourself then i also think about how the indianapolis colts beat the kansas city

chiefs last year in the regular season and how the regular season you know here and there does not tell us the truth about which team is actually stronger than the other team, uh, that it is kind of, you can have these random results and they have to prove that it wasn't a random result, but you only get one week to decide. And that's the interesting thing, right? Like we'd love to simulate this thing over and over to see how strong they actually are, but we can't, they've got one week and then it's the trade deadline and then they've got to figure it out uh i want to ask you guys opinions of jordan love uh so far i have gone back and watched some jordan love and it hasn't been as bad as the low lights like on a play-to-play basis i think he's done a lot of really good things they do not have good receivers still

i i don't know guys guys, maybe draft Justin. No, they didn't do that. Like Aaron Rodgers wanted them to. Can you imagine? But they don't do that. The Vikings do that. They draft the guy that their fans claim is going to be as good as Justin Jefferson. Best of luck. And it hasn't been good so far.

I don't think Jordan Love is a quarterback you can look at and go, oh, they're going to beat this guy's face in. But he turns the ball over, and going against Brian Flores, I would have much more confidence in Flores' defense messing with him. But on the bigger picture, do you think Jordan Love is their quarterback for a while, or is this a they-wasted-four-years-developing-someone-for-no-reason situation? I don't know. To me, this season is about finding that out for them.

And the results have been inconsistent. I think they've been a little inconclusive. I think if I was a Packers fan, I would be a little more discouraged than encouraged. I mean, I haven't watched every, every throw Jordan loves taking this season, but from what I've seen of him,

there are moments where you're like, Oh, that looks really good. That, that looks like a first round quarterback. And he has the, that, that prototypical skill set that teams are looking for nowadays where he can get out of the pocket and you can throw in the run. And he does some sidearm stuff where you're like, oh yeah, that guy played a practice with Aaron Rodgers for three years. You're like, oh, that looks pretty good. And then there's just some things where you're

like, all right, he hasn't played a ton of football and he's making kind of baffling decisions and throwing the ball into harm's way and these turnover worthy plays. And they weren't happening. The actual turnovers weren't happening the first few weeks, but I don't know the exact number. Like I think the last four games he's thrown six picks or something like that. And it's just, to me, that's something Brian Flores can take advantage of. So this will be a test for, I mean, we're talking about this from the Vikings perspective, but if you're the Pack packers i'd be really curious and kind of excited to see how jordan love does against one of maybe the best defensive game planners and one of the most aggressive the most aggressive uh defensive minds and and how how he handles the blitzes and you

know shifts the protections and does all the pre-snap stuff and then post-snap can he make the right decisions and avoid giving the Vikings defense its third straight three-takeaway game? Every time I watch or get to tune into any kind of Packers game, I often hear the broadcasters talk about how, you know, after they meet with the coaching staff throughout the week and they do the show notes or whatever and they learn about the team, one of the tropes that gets trotted out as well,

the Packers really wanted to bring this young receiving core and really get a young receiving core to build around their young quarterback and have them grow together. Well, they don't have anybody who can get open. They just don't. Christian Watson's really fast. He's really tall and it's really cool. And Aaron Rodgers could make a lot of plays with him because he can do those timing routes where Watson's on the move and then you can use that speed. Love's not there. Love's not there where he can be precise and accurate in within the offense and the structure and really put the ball where it needs to be. And Watson was hurt obviously for the first month of the year. Romeo Dubs is a nice contested catch artist. Jaden Reed's a cool toy right now, but he's not a full receiver. He's just

a gadget guy right now. So this offense is Aaron Jones who was also hurt in a plotting A.J. Dillon that is getting nothing behind a bad offensive line. I don't think he's got a lot but coaching going for him right now in terms of Jordan Love. I don't think there's a lot around him right now that is great. I think we're looking at a team that traded a four time NFL MVP quarterback in a all pro wide receiver and didn't do much in terms of having ready made pieces to step right in.

So, of course, they're going to look bad. And I think Jordan Love would benefit from patience from people and from Green Bay. But as soon as they lose that game to Denver, you're reading in The Athletic, I think it was, a story about how they're already looking at potential future options at quarterback. It's like, I don't know if they're going to get that patience. And Love might not have had much of a chance outside of this year. That's the tough thing is if he's a chance outside of this year that's that's the tough thing is if he's a rookie give him all the patience in the world but you sat for three years

and now you got to make a decision on a limited basis of evidence to extend him or not and whether he's your guy so that's why i think these these games coming up here in this kind of middle and second half of this season are going to be really important for them. And we have also seen with Daniel Jones, when you emerge at the end of your rookie quarterback contract, then they pay you. And all of a sudden, if you're not great, it looks very, very bad. You know who Jordan Love reminds me of is Drew Locke. Like this guy where when you see his best throws, you go, whoa, dude.

And Drew Locke's an NFL quarterback. He can go out there, he can run an offense or whatever but there's also so many like mind-numbing mistakes and i don't know how you work those out when the guy had those in college as well because then it looks like it was more of who he's going to be and the throws at the end of the last couple games games they could have won uh i don't know if you just work that out. And that's where the Vikings defense has got to be working on their celebrations for interceptions and fumbles this week, because I think you're going to get some from Jordan Love. But for a long term option, they do have to decide pretty quick. And unless unless it's great, I think you have to move on from someone like that. Just like with I mean, honestly, just like with Drew Locke

in Denver, where it was not great. It was like good enough to think there's some potential there, but it wasn't great. And as soon as it's not great, then signing onto that guy for a long time is just gonna lock you in to your mediocre future in a lot of ways. But I was on a Green Bay radio station

and you guys do these two, the radio spots where they call and they ask you you know what do you think of this or that most of the interview was the host complaining about jordan love and i just thought oh how's that that's that's how that's how the other half lives let's hear let's hear more from you guys about quarterback play that drives you crazy also matt lafleur hot seat you hate to see it it's just nothing against matt lafleur i think he's a really good coach but everybody's a genius when aaron rogers wins back-to-back mvps and then everybody's an idiot when no receivers can get open david boctieri's not healthy aaron

jones isn't healthy and your quarterback throws it to the other team big dummy why did you why didn't you fix all that at once or just put in Aaron Rodgers and then he'll get you there? It's it's remarkable how we play this game with coaches and things like that. I look at Jordan Love and I do not see someone who belongs in the XFL and I do not see someone who belongs as a franchise quarterback. That's that's what I see from Jordan Love so far. But just give him time. I change my mind. I would like patience and time. And that's that's what i see from jordan love so far but just give him time i'll change my mind i would like patience and time and that's the problem is that to your point will that he's had so many years sitting that in an impatient nfl they're going to be even more impatient yeah yeah they

don't really have the the luxury of all that much time and i don't know i i look at this packer team and i guess to their credit i was looking at the the DVOA and their past offense ranks fairly high and I think they've had some big plays there and they've also had some turnovers but the run offense has been really bad defensively I think if there's anybody Packers fans are the most frustrated with that I tend to see on the internet it's Joe Barry the defensive coordinator and I tweeted the stat that you know the Vikings don't have a rushing touchdown this season they're the only team in the league without one it's the only time in their 63 year history that they haven't had one in the first seven games and it just somebody in Packers Twitter found it and they're like oh Joe

Barry will fix that oh guess what Alex Madison three touchdowns on like they are so out on on that guy and specifically the run defense which has just been really really bad this season so that's concerning if the Vikings can't run the football on Sunday but I look at it and I'm looking on paper and I'm like this looks like a good matchup for the Vikings the one thing that concerns you is just that it's football that it's Lambeau Field that it's Green Bay a rivalry game and that the Vikings this was the first time all year that we had seen that complete performance. So it could very easily go back to, oh, they're playing like they did in Chicago again. And Green Bay might not be very good, but there's still, it's the third quarter and it's a 13-13 game. And Greg Joseph has missed a field goal and like weird things are happening. So I don't know

on paper. I mean, I'm going to pick them when we get to that, the Vikings, but I don't know. It's just, you can't really shake the feeling of vikings packers like it doesn't always go like the paper says it should uh just real quick to your point um andrew jalen hurts didn't look like a franchise quarterback right away uh josh allen did not and love is that athletic quarterback that might need more time and development and i don't think he has a good situation. In fact, if you were ranking all of the situations in the league, it's not last, but it's way away from first.

First might be right here or San Francisco. Bottom 10. It is in the bottom 10, bottom five, in terms of who your top receivers are, what your offensive line looks like, what your running game looks like. So I agree with you that I would give him time. Right now, that's my reaction.

We'll see how that goes in the future. I will also pick the Vikings to win this game. I'm going to go for it here. I'm going to go for it. I got two hugs today. So this could be a biased. I will say it is a two score win i'm gonna go 27 to 17 a decided victory they walk out of there mocking go pack go they are grittying right in uh

jair alexander's face purple glasses insider well wow i just think the packers well it's more of like i think the packers just aren't good. But, you know, like the way that they played last week, that's what I'm going to go with. So we'll see. I'm going to pick the Vikings, but I can't bring myself to do the two-score thing. You never know. The Packers are not very good, but I think the Vikings will find some way to make it a close game. I do think they win by whether it's three points or seven points or maybe eight points just to keep the like technically one score thing.

But I am going to pick the Vikings. Just I don't think this Packers defense is very good and it helps. So this is second straight week where you're playing a team that has a really good left tackle who is not playing. David Bakhtiari is not playing. I think that means good things for Daniel Hunter. And I just every time I watch the Christian Derrissaw tape, man, I'm like, I don't know if anybody can get past this guy. So the Packers have some good edge rushers. I just, that dude is playing at such a high level, and I think that is a huge, huge thing for Kirk Cousins.

Yeah, Aaron Jones still wasn't practicing on Wednesday of this week. J.R. Alexander is dealing with a back injury, though he's practicing, seems like he'll play. I think you're going to see teams treat Jordan Addison differently as we move forward. It seemed like the Niners to their baffling whole game plan. One of them was just, let's give no one the star treatment. Let's just play Hawkinson straight up, Addison straight up. We'll see what happens. We'll blitz and we'll get burned. And I think I have no faith that Joe Berry is going to figure anything out. But if they decide to get physical with Addison and make life tough for the Vikings a little bit and have to lean on the run game or Hawkinson,

it will be a closer game than Vikings fans think coming off that Monday nighter. I just, yeah, I don't have a ton of confidence in, in Jordan love and the Packers doing much against Brian Flores. Yeah. I'm going to pick the Vikings to win as well.

It's just going to be one score because that's destiny. Maybe Brandon Powell will have a big game if they focus on big punt return on Jordan. Oh, there you go. As a receiver. I mean, he's Wes Phillips said he's one of the toughest guys ever coached. So Matt Daniels said that you should have eight hugs a day. Is that like the eight glasses of water? Like that Matt Daniels' wife who told him that. Okay, yeah, that's right. That's what he mentioned. So, no. We're not doing the hugs. I'm doing the Brian Flores school of not hugging.

That's it then. Football. We'll see you after the Packers game. It's fine. It's fine. I'm okay with it.