Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Seahawks analyst breaks down Darnold in Seattle vs. Vikings

Episode Date: July 3, 2025

Matthew Coller is joined by Matty F. Brown of Seahawks On Tape to discuss Sam Darnold's switch to Seattle and how he fits in their offense. Plus, a way-too-early preview of Vikings at Seattle in Week 13.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Purple Inside or Matthew Coller here and returning to the show, Maddie F. Brown, who works on Seahawks on tape and your second appearance on the show. And Maddie, I got to tell you, man, you were a fan favorite the first time he came on to preview Vikings and Seahawks last year, which turned out to be one of the most entertaining games. I think of the entire NFL season, certainly for the Minnesota Vikings did not end the way that Seahawks fans would have wanted, but that was back and forth. Really fun ending.

Sam Darnold makes an incredible pass to win the game and now he will be throwing passes in Seattle. It's been a crazy off season for the Seattle Seahawks. Pete Carroll ends up as the Raiders head coach, which I never saw coming that he would be a head coach again. Geno Smith is traded. Sam Darnold is the quarterback. DK Metcalf is a Pittsburgh Steeler. What is going on man? This is this must have been kind of entertaining for you. Oh my gosh. Yeah, so much has happened.

I think I've probably popular from the first appearance because I think I predicted a Vikings win, although maybe a bigger victory than what transpired. And clearly, John Schneider, as he has done with quarterbacks before, like Sam Howell, was impressed with what Sam Donald was able to do in Seattle and that massive throw over the head of, uh, Rick Woollen and outside of Julian Love for the ceiling touchdown, which very impressive throw.

And yeah, it's like a very different looking team suddenly. I think not to speak for an entire fan base, but we may have touched on this last year as well, that there was kind of a sense around the team that they, you know, Schneider's always insistent that they never rebuild and they're always competing and they're never kind of blowing it up. And I don't think they've totally blown things up. However, the Dross is suddenly looking a bit younger. They've made a fair few draft picks

and they've got a quarterback in Darnold who, hey, if it doesn't work out, there's an easy out there. And they actually drafted a quarterback in Jalen Hillrow for the first time in a while. I think Alex Magoo was their last draft pick. Remember him? Probably not. Oh, of course I do. He's Alex Magoo, a UFL legend.

There you go. Yeah. Oh, of course I do. Alex Magoo, uh, UFL legend. Oh, there you go, yeah. And he could sling it. But not in the way that Darnold slung it last season. And it's quite a funny coincidence, I guess, that I'm on a Vikings podcast with the self-Vikings expert. And I'm sure, I don't know how likely to tread around the Darnold topic because on the one hand I can see the positives to it, but I am a bit disappointed in how it played out in terms of Gino Smith this season obviously listeners will know that I was a big advocate of his game Well, feel free to ask questions. This is it's a two-way podcast Not just a Q&A so you can throw Sam Donald questions my way

But why don't we begin with because these two two teams play each other. And this is part of my series, just looking at teams that the Vikings are going to play, their off seasons and so forth. And Vikings fans are very familiar with how much Sam Darnold can sling it because he threw the heck out of the ball last year and they get to the end of the season, the offense melts down in back to back games. It leaves a sour taste in everybody's mouth.

And of course course made the decision much easier for the Vikings to move on from Sam Darnold. So having seen that entire picture and knowing that there is differences between the supporting casts, I like Smith Najigba, he's not Justin Jefferson. And I think the jury is still out on the offensive system versus what we've seen from KOC, which has been really impressive. How are you setting expectations for Sam Darnold in Seattle? Well, I really think people, not that there's ever too much patience around the quarterback position, but I think, yeah, the context of what he's coming into is absolutely valid.

And, you know, we should always be talking about context when it comes to quarterback play. And the system that he came from, obviously, I think Kevin O'Connell, I think, is the best play call in the league. He's certainly up there last season. I think he definitely was. Obviously, maybe he recognized he could have done some things a bit better in the postseason

and that crucial like week 18 game. But as a whole it was mightily impressive what he's able to do and I think again to reference that time I came on last season I was sort of marvelling at how balanced O'Connell's offense was and it was such a contrast to what the Seahawks are running and how poor that offense was but anyway they've now got rid of Ryan Grubb, he was a one season wonder. And they've gone for a guy who Mike McDonald was handpicked, it's obviously his his first full off season

in Seattle, in Clint Kubiak to run the the Shanahan or maybe it's just the Kubiak system given, you know, his dad kind of did it first. And so that's exciting for a sense because it's some like training wheels, it should build better balance into this offense. I mean, it should it should enable I mean, the massive tour in Seattle is the offensive line. And the offensive line in previous I mean, just go to last season, they were per PFF,

they were 30th in rush yards before contact per carry, they were 29th in pressure rate allowed. And they spent the 29th least on their offensive line. The types of pressures they were giving up, they weren't really on the quarterback. In fact, Gino, if you look at like, like football insights did, if you look at like, pressures attributed to the quarterback, Gino was the fifth best quarterback in that stat. But then if you look at like quick pressures where, I mean, quarterback maybe could do something about that in terms of setting protection, but I think the stat assumes that they, they're

not, they're not responsible for that. The Seahawks were like the worst in the league each year from since Gino became the starter in Seattle and it was just atrocious. And offensive linemen-wise, hey guess what? Sam Darnall is gonna be playing behind kind of the same figures. The Seahawks did spend the first round pick on

offensive lineman which is very rare under John Schneider and honestly it's not a guy who screams Schneider like he has he has shorter arms in Gray Zabel and he is not yeah usually he's gone for that mauling type obviously a Kubiak coming in transitioning to more of a wide zone system they maybe their profile, maybe their profile slightly changed, but it didn't scream Schneider and it did feel like, Hey, we're drafting. We know we need, we have a need here. We didn't do much in free agency. Um, so they've got a new left guard, but it's a rookie.

Uh, you've got Abraham Lucas who wasn't able to play last season, but arguably like his best football. He's been the best offense tackle in Seattle on the right side. But yeah, there's a lot of pieces on the offensive line where they don't know who's going to be the center yet. And you know, it's kind of an unproven second year, Olu Oluwatimi or, you know, they might swing a guard in there like Christian Haynes, who was disappointing in his rookie year last year. But I do generally

believe that the offensive line could be upbringing in his long time offensive line coach, john Benton 17 year coach from the mess of last season, where it was just one of the worst NFL offensive systems I've seen. And I like to go grab the benefit of the doubt is a tough transition coming from college, but it was bad. This is going to be probably the most we've seen a team transition from in their run rate, they're going to run the ball so much more often. So there'll be more balanced in terms of that run pass splits, which helps the offensive line. And I think formationally, they're going to be more balanced and more balanced in their past protection schemes. And that just helps your fence line past protect along with some upgrading the talent. That said, I still do worry about about Donald coming into that kind of area and, and he did a lot last year to alleviate that right? Like, I mean, I'd love to know your opinions, I've spoken for way too long on this, but it's a big topic around the Seahawks.

I'd love to know your opinions about him handling pressure, because I know there's some promising figures, and I know he was able to navigate pockets quite well and showed some play extension and some more maturity and checking the ball down and stuff than he maybe had earlier in his career. So do you think that's going to stick after year one or folks for weeks now? I've been using tempo meals to cut down on the amount of times that I go out for fast food. And as you guys know, for me, that is quite an accomplishment, but it's worked. I feel like I'm in better shape and big time saving a lot of money from going out to eat constantly.

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judges and celebrities with Denise. It's lawyers only. No fluff. No gimmicks. Just real help. All right. Back to the show. Right. It's kind of funny because when you look at all of the numbers and how he performed right in front of me, I under pressure last year in the regular season through 17 weeks, he was one of the best in the NFL at dealing with pressure. The play he makes in Seattle is unbelievable. Uh, I mean, stepping up in the pocket, the throw that he had against Atlanta when they

sent free rushers at him and he scrambles around, finds Justin Jefferson for a touchdown and toward the second half of the season, as the offensive line was starting to collapse with Cam Robinson in there at left tackle rather than Christian Derrissaugh. He still was, it seemed to me, developing the ability to find guys underneath. There was a game against Chicago where something happened to his hand. We never got an explanation of what it was, but he was inaccurate in that game down the field. So they started going underneath and he actually was doing it. And I still think he was always looking for that big shot so much more, but he was ducking it down to Aaron Jones from time to time. He was starting to work TJ Hawkinson

in a different game against Chicago where he threw to Hawkinson a ton. So it wasn't all just, Hey, I'm going to scramble around and throw some bombs. I thought he did develop and mature as the season went along. But at the end of the day, when you look at the sack numbers and you look at the number of times where, this is always a tough balance, right? Like if you're going to be the guy who scrambles around and makes plays, it's also going to result in you running

backwards for a 15 yard sack. And there were way too many times where his first instinct when he got pressure up the middle was to turn around and run backwards. And so there were times where he's like running toward his own end zone getting tackled from behind by somebody and losing huge yardage. And I saw a chart that somebody put out there that was showing that I think Josh Allen had more EPA on runs or something than lost on sacks or something I think Josh Allen had more EPA

on runs or something than lost on sacks or something crazy about Josh Allen. But Sam Darnold had lost a lot of EPA on sacks overall and really wasn't a running quarterback. So he didn't make that up with his actual rushing yards. He could just scramble enough for a first down. But when I looked at that signing, I thought, first thing I did was I went to Seahawks depth chart and I went to offensive line and went,

I don't know, man, because for at least half of the season, the Vikings had a legitimate, I think top five to seven line when Christian Derrissaw was in there, but he goes out and then there's a trickle down effect from that. And it became overwhelming eventually by the end of the season, especially when the Rams realized some of their weaknesses. It was actually Arizona that recognized the weakness of Sam Darnold identifying rushers from the second level. So this is something when Seahawks play Jonathan Gannon, I'll be really interested in because I think he realized if you send delay

blitzes from linebackers or safeties where they don't necessarily show it right away, but then they're coming, uh, Darnold kind of overlooks that and was not really great at resetting. And some of that I'm sure is offensive line too, but I think he's going to need a good center to guide him and you don't even know who's playing center. And the other part too, that doesn't really match up for me with Darnold in Seattle is, all right, so you've got Smith in the Jigba who can go downfield, but I think of is a really, really good possession receiver and Cooper Cup. We'll see if he stays healthy, but he's kind of the ultimate possession receiver type guy. I don't even know who's playing tight end. Who's playing tight end. Is there a tight end? That's a hotly contested position right now. There's no fan. There's AJ Barna who's in his

second year. And then there's some options like they drafted Elijah Arroyo. I don't know how much he's going to play in his first year because he's coming off a knee injury. But like the main two would be Barna and Fan. Barna is more your inline type, fancy or move guy. Fancy, quite a lot of money and probably underperformed that came over in the Russell Wilson trade. But it's not Hawkinson. Right, you're not talking about, and even then I thought at times

he kind of overlooked Hawkinson, but Hawkinson was missing for the first half of the season with the ACL. So the point is I see Marquez Valdes handling on the list. There's a deep wide receiver who may or may not catch the football when it's him. This is going to be very different because he had

two of the best downfield wide receivers, two of the best intermediate and deep route runners that you're going to find in the entire NFL. And now you're talking about a lot of timing stuff, underneath stuff, hitting guys on the break. I don't know that that matches up perfectly. So I, but here's where I would say the silver lining is having seen Clint Kubiak here with the Vikings. Uh, his big issue was really the second halves of games where teams would kind of figure some things out and then they couldn't like have a

counter punch. But maybe he's, maybe he's progressed since then as a play caller. But you are going to work off of the run with a lot of play action. There's going to be bootlegs in there, which Darnold is terrific at getting on the move, seeing guys downfield. And if he can work off of those bootlegs, which kind of naturally get guys open and all he has to do is throw an accurate pass, he's as accurate and as strong of a thrower as exists in the entire NFL. Yeah. I actually think for the play caller you got, it should work out really well for the offensive line and receivers. I don't know that it really matches up.

Yeah. I mean, I was going to come onto the receivers because that's the big thing, isn't it? Like Kubiak was so good at, like, with the Saints before everyone, well, everyone seemed to get hurt, like, constantly throughout the year. But with the Saints, he seemed very good at getting, like, hey, it wasn't, it was maybe like a wide receiver five type guy, but he'd scheme up ways to get them the ball down the field and get explosives and he'd have a good package of plays for that guy's skill set, like Marcos Valdez-GGantling, right, who also got hurt. That's kind of been his issue as well. But like receiver skill set wise, it's, you know, they trade DK Metcalf, right? Valdez-Gantling is like the DK Metcalf, light,

light, light, light, light. He's going to play in the X role. He's going to be the burner, the field stretcher. He still has a good play speed. But then it's like, Cooper Cup, JSN, as you said, those underneath targets. I mean, I was listening to Donald with, he was on with Nate Tice of Yahoo or Yahoo, or however I'd say it. Yahoo here. Yes, it is.

And he said that throwing a choice routes to Christian McCaffrey was like one of his favorite things to do in Seattle, in San Francisco, obviously in Seattle, like those kind of slot option routes to cup a cup, which it was made he's bread and butter, right? Like, you know, it's I'm so interested to see how it all fits in. But ultimately, what we're saying is, receiver, there's some pretty big question marks there and maybe a talent

efficiency. And I love JSN. And he's an ascending player. And he has elite potential. And he can play some outside some inside some z and some some slot cup is more of a slot. And then the X guy who knows but they're probably going to run a lot of too tight end and one one tight end to two in the backfield type stuff because it's Kubiak. But that's a question mark. The offensive line is still a question mark, even if they're going to improve with the play caller, like the right tackle Lucas, he might be.

His health is a big question. Guard is like, oh, my goodness, like this, this could be really bad or they could get lucky center as well. The interior is just, oh, my gosh, it's scary. And then there's Darnold himself who like, we just don't know and I think aesthetically like some of the running backwards stuff, it just looks weird and you're like, oh my gosh, he's gonna be mistaken. A lot of time early in the season when he's like scrambling out the pocket and picking up a first down, you're like, whoa, that was

really good. Where's that been? But like his time to throw in the season, I think, like 3.66 seconds, like he's holding the ball. Some of that's from creating as well. And that part, but then some of it is the running backwards, getting sacked. And I couldn't believe how simple the Rams defensive game plan was. When I saw, I didn't watch it. I didn't watch it live because I went to bed. But I checked the box score and was like, wait, what's, there's no way that something weird didn't happen here. And it was just like the Rams, like how brash they were and just playing so much cover one and like you said, blitzing from the second level. It wasn't the fanciest stuff at all. So how were they not able to get, you know, Justin Jefferson to ball more in those one-on-one situations and, you know, Justin Jefferson, the ball more in those one-on-one situations and, and, you know, and, and do more. And so there's a lot riding on the offense. Like even, even Kubiak himself is relatively unproven as a coordinator.

It was real flashes with New Orleans, but, you know, I mean, in Seattle, we've seen, if you try and get a certain system, like we, they tried to get a McVeigh system of Andy Dickerson, and it didn't pan out. Like just having an offensive coordinator for more than a year would be a positive. They fired the fired grub in a year and Shane Waldron didn't last much longer. Like it's it's I meant Shane Waldron his offensive line coaches Andy Dickerson when they're trying the McVeigh thing. But anyway, yeah, too many offensive coordinators to keep track of. And I am excited. But but like I said, just that context for Donald, I think it's really important. And and I think he's coming into a really tough, tough position. That said, they're gonna, they're gonna be running a system that will lighten the load on him.

It's a very simple structure with very clear rules, which I think suits him as well. Because a lot of the times when the picture changes or it's not a maybe half-field read, it's always requiring him to read stuff out over a full field or he gets a different look, which I think the Rams thing was, he didn't expect that type of tight coverage to play out. And he didn't expect that second level guy to come and suddenly all did and it's like, Oh, gosh, what am I doing now? When it's kind of clearly structured, which by the way, running the ball is going to get you more predictable looks if you can

run the ball effectively. Then I think he's good, but it's when it when it changes, it's a bit alarming. But yeah, his the way he throws the ball as well his highlight tape. It's it's such an exciting highlight tape where he just rips digs. He throws it so fast and such a quick release. And I like just seeing him hook up with Jefferson and Addison and on those like deep balls in the intermediate areas of the field was like so exciting. I did a few of their games last year and yeah, it was special. So who knows?

But there's something to keep an eye on. I think, as I said, that appetite for change in Seattle or something like tangible to change, I think fans are looking forward to it. At the same time, it could very quickly become a case of, oh my gosh, what have you done here? And as I said at the start, I was an advocate of Geno Smith. And I do find it tricky. I believe Geno Smith is a better quarterback than Sam Darnold. And I believe he has the ability to survive terrible offenses, and then elevate more the stuff around him. And he would have fit Kubiak's stuff, but you could have done more with him as well,

in my opinion. But we'll see how he gets on in Las Vegas. Yeah, the Gino thing is interesting to follow people talking about it because there's sort of a, it's like people who watch a lot of film, which Seahawks on tape, you watch a lot of film, they always come away really liking Geno Smith. There's a little bit of like, for me, I do both, right? I watched the film from every

Vikings game, but I'm also there and covering it. And last year, I think was really a Geno Smith in a bubble against the Vikings or, you know, just summarized against the Vikings where he made five throws in that game where I was like, Oh my gosh, I cannot believe the throw that Geno Smith just made. His arm talent was through the roof, but the decision making would really vary where, I mean, even at the end of the game, the interception he throws is just mind blowing.

Like how did this even happen? And there were a couple of throws in that game where you just, oh, what is, what is going on there? And in the red zone kind of freaks out a little bit and makes bad decisions and throws red zone picks. And you just like, there's a lot of that actually with Sam Darnold, the same kind of thing where you're like the red zone interceptions that he threw against Jacksonville. And sometimes you just, why did you do that? There's a's an interception. And I know I kind of blamed Kevin O'Connell for calling this play because he should have known who his quarterback was, but there's an interception. He throws against the Packers where the Vikings are up, I think, 14 points or 17 points. It should be an easy, even if you kick a field goal, this game is over. And he throws one up for grabs, a jump ball to the running back 20 yards down the

field. You're like, Jefferson's coming across the middle of the field on a check down wide open. Why didn't you do that? So I think that what both of these quarterbacks have in common is that there's a volatility element to them that drives everybody crazy and also creates a lot of debates for people. Because, you know, you could watch Sam Darnold last year and say he was terrific. Or you could point out a bunch of different times, even in a 14 win season where he was very frustrating and he did throw bad interceptions and take huge sacks.

There's a big sack against the Rams, not in the playoff game, but on Thursday night football that kind of takes them out of a drive that they really needed. And like, there it goes again, uh, the quick pressures are going to be a huge problem for Sam Darnold because I think one of his Achilles heels is that he loves to just hang in. Like I'm going to be that tough linebacker quarterback. I'm just going to hang in. Gino does this to some extent too, but I think Darnold kind of to an extreme, I'm going to let this entire progression play out and I'm going to wait on that long throw, which could also mean you get killed if you're getting quick pressure or if you're getting pressure from the second level.

And that, that Rams game plan, a lot of it was, I think they knew every time the Vikings lined up in a bunch formation that they would run play action if it was on early downs and they just sent corners off the edge, which is kind of the solution to that. So there's, there's very clearly defined strengths and weaknesses to Sam Darnold, which I think makes it easy to predict in some ways, like what it's going to look like. But then everything else is just what's around him and what happens, which I guess is a question that needs to be asked as well. It's like, is this defense for Seattle? Good.

They looked okay against the Vikings at times. I mean, because I think that was a huge factor too, that when we talk about Darnold going 14 and three and throwing 35 touchdowns is they also had a top five defense that led the NFL and turnovers. It's a lot easier to throw 35 touchdowns when you get 20 something extra possessions or whatever it was from turnovers, 30 extra possessions. Yep. Uh, well, uh, they finished the season like a top 10 defense really, like by most metrics

and they haven't really lost any one of note and they've got some ascending young players and they've added to that in the draft. So there's the, you know, defense is inherently streaky and you know, there's there's areas it can regress. You can improve in certain areas and then regress in others and it kind of cancels each other out. There's obviously a bit of luck involved as well. They the big thing last season, I can't remember if they'd acquired Ernest Jones, they must have done. I think they'd acquired Ernest Jones at Linebacker and got rid of Tyrell Dodson who they had signed as a free agent to be their mic. And they kind of shuffled that around. The cohesion between the back end and the front improved improved they kind of got out of some bad looking run

defense type stuff and and it all kind of came together they they got better at stopping the run that created more clear passing downs which is where mike mcdonald makes his money like he's so good in clear passing downs at scheming up pressure with just four rushes and and playing enough good coverage to uh to force the check down, which in that Vikings game, I thought on third down, he kind of played three high safeties and Donald was checking the ball down quite a bit until he absolutely zoomed it over the head for that touchdown. But yeah, so I think the defense is good. Like the clear strength of it is the pass rush. They're so deep there.

Like they have guy, there's not really like a star edge. I think Leonard Williams should be a star. I mean, he's NFL's 99th ranked player. So he's a top a hundred player. I think he should be higher than that. A defensive tackle edge wise, Boye and Maffei someone to keep an eye out for. He's in his defensive tackle. Edgewise, Boye-Maffei is someone to keep an eye out for. He's in his

fourth year, yeah, and I think he's a contract here. So he's going to be bowling out, but he's still quite young and so dynamic coming off the edge. Derek Hall's kind of ascending. He's entering his third year football. And they're deep, like they signed Demarcus Lawrence to give him kind of a bigger edge type. Yeah, but you know, you're talking about like a edge for for them edge three for them and he can play some inside as well. Jaren reads like a Wiley vet. And then of course, Byron Murphy, their first round pick last season, he his snaps were kind of limited.

But this is the year that we're looking for him to to take Reed's job and kind of rush to pass on and be that kind of he's not going to be this but that lighter body defensive tackle passer kind of like Aaron Donald but that in he's in that mold. So the defense is good, but they have some question marks in as I've said defense can regress. I think corner is a bit weird because there's a guy called Jackson Job who kind of emerged as the guy there.

Okay, you're now our starter. I think they acquired him late into, like I think they just picked him up off the street very late in the off season. He had familiarity with Baltimore, but he's an undersized guy and he'll kind of, he's scrappy, his technique's good, but he's an undersized guy, so you kind of have's scrappy his techniques good But he's an undersized guys you kind of have to help him sometimes in coverage

I kind of have to accept that he might get picked on a bit at times and Then on the other side Rick woollen there's some questions over Like whether he fits in the culture and he got benched again and his tacklings iffy, but at the same time He can erase a guy on the backside of trips or whatever he can press a guy he can take them out of the game he's got so big and so long and so fast and such a good press technique guy. So for him is more like a locked in concentration deal type dude. But the other question on the

defense would be like linebacker still Ernest Jones. He didn't sign for as much money as you'd think. And I think that there's some questions over his knee injury, like his knee stuff, like if you there's pictures of it like basically spattered together with like lots of tape and it's like all just holding it in there, I guess. And his mobility kind of declined visibly throughout the season. And he doesn't have like top top range, but he's a really smart player, kind of an all round linebacker, very, very solid player. But then Tyrese Knight in his second year, Will kind of had his struggles.

And I think ultimately as well, McDonald scheme wise, he focuses so much on how to stop like three wide receiver sets and all that type of stuff, which by the way, a lot of the NFL, that's what they run. So fair enough. And he focuses so much on like passing down how to get pressure and whatnot. There were run defense issues were corrected over the course of the season. But if you look at their numbers, that even going back to Baltimore, which my podcast

co host Griffin Sturgeon found, if you like the 12 personnel, the heavier personnel stuff, like two in the backfield, 21 personnel stuff, they really struggle against that stopping it and the play action off that their numbers against it is bad. So what I'm saying is like when the Vikings play the Seahawks get into your multiple tight ends. Is CJ Hamm still knocking around? He is, but probably the better option is Josh Oliver, who is the PFF number one run blocking. That's right. Damn straight, damn straight.

Get Oliver and Hockinson on the field. Maybe we'll get a bit of Ham involved as well, cause you know, he's called Ham. And yeah, that type of stuff. And I was a bit disappointed that, I think it speaks to McDonald's skill because I've watched it happen a number of times now. And I'm like, oh, well, he must know something.

But like teams that almost start passing and when you're like, no, you could stay in your like, your heavy personnel, grind it out, run the ball, play action off that type mode. Why are you suddenly like spreading it out and like relax? You're letting them play what they want to do, which is nickel and he kind of catches them in that mode. But yeah, get heavy, get in your base stuff, look at the problem runs and action for this

defense because there's three years of tape of it now and I think I was banging on about it when we last recorded. So it's a thing. three years of tape of it now. And, uh, I think I was banging on about it. Um, when we last recorded, so it's a thing. Uh, I think offensive coordinators, including KOC sometimes can't help themselves. Uh, yeah, they get so angsty. Yeah. I was calling it last year in the press box, the two runs in a row challenge. They can, can they have, it doesn't matter how, if they get, if they get seven on first down, it'll be a pass. And if they get three on first down, it'll be a pass.

And if they get three on first down, it will be a pass. Uh, it was really, and I think that it became a little too predictable for the Vikings when they ran. And I'm betting that McDonald's looks around the league and says, you know, teams, it's so funny how this works with like an analytical concept because all of us were banging the drum years ago. Do not run on second down. If you run on second down, it's like an inefficient play and all this stuff. But then the defensive coordinators, they have ears and eyes too.

Like they, Oh, okay. They're not going to run. And this is actually a Brian Flores thing where he's started treating second down and more than five, like it's third down where you'll throw in lighter personnel. You'll send blitzes from all over the place because you're thinking, well, most of these offices just run on first down and not on second down anymore, unless it's like second down and one. So I'm guessing that that's the concept. And it is really a big challenge for the Vikings this year to decide, like, are you going to load up a little bit more with Josh Oliver, with T.J. Hockinson, C.J.

Ham, Jordan Mason is now in the backfield who I don't know if he played in the games against Seattle, but a beast like a monster beast type of runner who kind of reminds you a little bit. Now, I'm making the comparison, but a little of Marshawn Lynch with the violence. And I think he's kind of the same size, like a five, 11, two hundred and twenty five pounds. Nice. Kind of has some quickness. Right. Yeah, exactly. with the violence and I think he's kind of the same size, like a five, 11, 225 pounds kind of has some quickness. Right. Yeah, exactly. I know we we're looking at him in a mini camp. We like that is that's a man right there. That's that's a lot of that's a lot of beef because Aaron Jones, you know, is not a very big guy. So we're all kind of curious. And

this just speaks to what a preview between us before the Seattle game will eventually be like, like, will they stick with the run? Will they stick with some bigger personnel at times? Will they lean into that and then play action off of it with JJ McCarthy or is it just going to be the shotgun McCarthy show? And oh yeah, that's right. We have a running back who plays here, which has kind of been over the last three years. But let me not get too, too far down the road. because I want to ask you kind of like the bigger picture about Seattle. One of the things that happened to the Vikings for a long time and drove Vikings fans insane

was that they got stuck in the middle. And they when when they launched the competitive rebuild, I will tell you the truth. I was a skeptical podcaster of the competitive rebuild because I thought if you're not going to go all in to the rebuild and you're just going to try to stay competitive, it's very hard to get from point A to point B. And if we're all being very honest with ourselves, an Achilles injury really helped them along to get there because had Kirk Cousins got them into the 2023 playoffs, what were they doing at that quarterback position? Are they trading up for Bo Nicks or something? Like if they were drafting 21st,

they don't get their hands on anybody. So anyway, just kind of reliving that history a little bit here that now the Vikings have gone through a competitive rebuild, gotten to the point with the rookie quarterback contract, they've spent the money in free agency. I feel like Seattle in the post Russell Wilson world has really been similar to the Vikings in the Kirk Cousins world where it was just reshuffling the deck chairs all the time.

It's a little bit different but it's kind of the same idea and it's going to take a lot of things going right in order for Seattle to win that division. Not that they won't be good and not that they won't win games. They will. But is anyone walking into this season saying, oh man, Seattle, like they're the team this year. Probably not.

How do they, I mean, if you agree with that statement, how do they get out of that? Like how do they escape that? Well, I strongly agree with that. And I think like, you know, you can get into Schneider, like not keeping certain players like, like, why wouldn't you keep Damian Lewis? Okay, he got paid a ton in Carolina. But if you're serious about it wouldn't have been that much. Probably if you'd been serious about wanting to keep him, you maybe could have got a bit bit less and now you just have to draft the guard in the first round Because guess what like a guard who gets paid that much in free agency Maybe you know, he's not an elite guard, but he's a good guard

Like you could have just kept him and it's it's definitely a sensation Before what happened this offseason if they take one step forward two steps back and it's very static and they're shuffling chairs as you said. But the thing is, the expectation in Seattle now, I think it was already like, hey, we're tired of not making the playoffs, and we've won 10 games last season, we're very unlucky not to make the playoffs,

if you look at 17-game season, but if you look at the history, it's never happened before, that don't think that a 10 team, maybe once, but a 10 win team not making the playoffs anyway. They feel, they feel a bit unlucky and there's excitement because it's signs of, it's not a rebuild, but there's a young quarterback now, there's a younger team, there's his head coach. But also after Schneider picked Zabel in the first round, you'd be forgiven for thinking, oh, he's going safe, like he feels a bit of pressure. In day two of

the draft, he like absolutely swung like Nick Emmanwary, as a you know, he, they had a lot of picks, and they traded two of them to move up ahead of the Raiders and get like this, this nickel back maybe a big nickel as like answer in theory to their the heavy run defense problems potentially. Then they go and get Elijah Arroyo who's a tight end as I've said, he's coming off like a bad knee injury may have been a medical red flag for teams. And he's like a move tight end. So it's like, well, Kenny Block, like, how does he fit in? Like, he's a great athlete, amazing catcher, very fluid route runner, but can

he actually play NFL tight end? What's year one going to look like? And then they go get Milro who's like a project, but these are all like high, high ceiling guys, but it's the day one fit is kind of like, Ooh, that's a, that's some coaching is going to be going on. And so Schneider clearly feels a bit secure that he could do that. He clearly wasn't feeling the heat too much. The coaching staff clearly feels confident. But like fan expectation wise, I think it's excitement for the future. But it's like year one, the team looks worse, like objectively. But at the same time, there's this weird expectation of, well, you know, 10 wins, 10 wins, 10,

like, can we make the playoffs now? Like, and it's a spoiled fan base because there's been so much success, so much playoff stuff. But Schneider certainly is not thinking, hey, we're just like treading water here. But at the same time, not to get to conspiracy theory with this, but I think it's worth mentioning, like the, the, this, this hat was the right, the Allen estate, the pool Allen estate who, who, and the Vulcan group who owns the team. They at some point, right, and this is hanging over the team. At some point, it was a pool Allen's wish that the team is sold.

Right. The last, I think, well, last year, late last year, at some point, it was announced that the Portland Trailblazers also owned by the same group are being prepared for sale, the basketball franchise. So it's kind of this thing of like, well, at what, at what point is ownership going to sell the Seahawks? And then with some of the, again, it would be, I think it's unfair not to have it in your mind, at least well, why

not to do too much speculation, but why would they not offer certain contracts? And is there like a money thing going on? That it could be completely wrong. But the fact is, they've got rid of like, players who I think would have been worth keeping around, and they're getting younger, and there's not many guarantees after a certain year of money. And cash flow-wise, it'd be an interesting study for someone who actually knows what they're talking about when it comes to this. But all of that said, the expectation is for them to make the playoffs and win the division.

And then division that is very weird because I mean, what do you think of the NFC West? Because if you look at it, you're like, well, they used to be good. And he was quite good once upon a time. And is he still good? And oh, that coach is good. Or is he good? And then are the Cardinals real? Or they just like, they didn't actually win that many games again. Um, and then with the Seahawks is like, what, um, like, because like if the, the defense, if it's like a top 10 unit for the whole season would be amazing, but I really can't see the offense being, it'll be better, but I don't think it'll be good enough to, like, I think 10 wins would be an achievement.

I think so too. Yeah. And to your point about the division, I was thinking about this myself because I'm working on, I do an article of 50 predictions going into the season and it's actually harder than you'd think to come up with 50. So I'm going, you know, diving into the different players and divisions and stuff like that. And when I get to the NFC West and I'm looking at it like, okay, so Arizona probably just wins eight games again because Kyler Murray is their quarterback.

And they're going to have to prove to me that they're better than that. I actually really like Jonathan Gannon as a defensive mind. And I think that their defensive line improving is significant, but I am not the Marvin Harrison Jr. believer that a lot of the draft people were. I think that living on contested catches and fade balls in the year 2025 is a pretty tough place to be. I think that him being not fast does matter and they seem to want to make him into a deep wide receiver,

but I think you have to do that with everybody with Kyler Murray. There was the Cliff Kingsbury chart of Deandre Hopkins, how it was like all the heat map was just on one side and it was all short into the outside. I don't think that Kyler Murray can see the middle of the field and, uh, you know, the Vikings have played him numerous times and I've seen him, you know, live enough to think.

I just, I think that that height thing does matter. And it ultimately mattered with Russell Wilson when everyone was saying, let Russ cook, just let him throw every play. I was like, that doesn't really work that way. If you're not able to see the middle of the field. And so with Kyler Murray, it's a lot of the same stuff we were talking about with Darnold, where it's like, it's gotta be down the field or it's gotta be a screen or it's gotta be a scramble.

And if you're asking someone week after week over 17 games to scramble around, make crazy plays, throw fade balls, it's just, that doesn't work on a week to week basis consistently. It's more like one game you go, oh my God, Kyler Murray was the best quarterback in the league this week, and then the worst the following week. So I don't trust that team to be above 500.

I wonder about where Matthew Stafford is physically at this point in his career. I mean, this guy has just had so many injuries, so banged up, and he was great against the Vikings in both games last season. But you just do wonder, is there a fall off? There was at points last year, but the Rams still should be pretty darn good. They got Devonte Adams to go along with Puka Nakula if he can even play a little. I think they should still win the division, the Rams, and then the rest. I mean, San Francisco, I just don't understand. Isn't it crazy, Matty, how fast you can go from the genius team to the stupid team? Because- Have you seen their draft history? Like, their draft history is amazing. Right.

It's very similar to, like, how the Seahawks were drafting when they're cooking I know it's it's well and one thing is you win a lot it becomes a lot harder but even this year for San Francisco's draft I was like another nose tackle I'm like okay well I guess that's something they take a specialist again did oh yeah that's right didn't they draft was it Jake Moody was the guy's name that they took in like the fourth round or something? Yeah, their draft history is strange and they've let so much talent go out the door. Brock Purdy is, I think, a really good quarterback, but not an elevator. So you end up with like, what do you really have there in San Francisco?

And it's kind of a roundabout way of saying, I mean, I think it's kind of up for grabs to whoever wins 10 or 11 games, unless the Rams that D line is so disgusting, that they may win a lot of games because of that. So I would pick the Rams right now. And I like what they're, I always blank on his name, but I like what their defensive coordinator does. Like, like just watching how he game plan for the teams. What's crazy is like Seahawks fans will be screaming like well McDonald's kind of did really well against McVeigh and not so good against the Cardinals who used a lot of 13 personnel and then tight end catching the ball over the middle

may be a formula. But yeah, he did really well against McVeigh and Shanahan like this kind of McDonald's thing. So, uh, given what I've said about heavy run game and how the Rams are getting heavier and running gap concepts and how Shanahan obviously runs like from like two back stuff. So yeah, I mean, maybe it's like the 2010 NFC West where the Seahawks went seven and nine, win the division and go and beat some washed old quarterback. Well, Drew Brees wasn't washed then. Let's not be unfair. No, that was a Marshawn Lynch run. I was responsible for that. Absolutely. And so yeah, let's have a Beastquake moment. And maybe then that is the launch point

for a young Seahawks team with Mike McDonald as a young coach in Seattle. And then the rest is history. Who knows? But yeah, I think that I kind of set on the division being bad. But then it wouldn't surprise me if one of the teams decided hell, not the Seahawks though. It wouldn't surprise me if like the Rams were like, oh, well, no, we're good. Like we have, like the Rams were like, Oh, no, we're good. Like we have, you know, if that tight end pick from Oregon hits blanking on his name and, and Stafford is just like, has a Stafford years at his last dance and he's just shredding balls and Pukka Nakua stays healthy. Like suddenly McVeigh's cooking. You can kind of see that. They're the one that has enough talent to actually be that team.

I do want to get your opinion on the Vikings and their decision because you would not have Seahawks on tape watching Sam Darnold without the Vikings deciding to move on from Sam Darnold. So going to JJ McCarthy, there's, I guess, one line of thinking that would say that it is a bold decision to move on from a quarterback who played so well with a roster that is starting to be in win now mode, which is not to be mistaken with Superbowl or bust mode, Maddie, those are two different modes. Like being in a win now means you're starting a window, not necessarily that you have to win this year, you're fired, just to clarify that for everybody. But this decision is really based on a training

camp, an OTAs, a mini camp that they saw last year, how they vibed with him from coach and quarterback, what his teammates thought of him, and not much else because he didn't throw a lot of passes at Michigan and he hasn't thrown a lot of passes in the NFL. Now, having seen those practices, I get it. I get it because his arm has looked more alive than I think any of us really expected coming out of Michigan where there were criticisms of his arm talent. I think that he's got all the arm. And this is having seen him throw in the same practices with Sam Darnold. So if you can hang in those, that means you've got some arm talent.

And I think he's got the mind for it to play professional quarterback. I think he was doing a lot of that already in college and he's shown signs of really, I think, latching on quite well to the professional quarterback type of role. But nonetheless, so there was the two lines of thinking are either that it's really bold because he's never played or that it's not bold at all because this was always the way that they were going to go. And so they're just sticking to their plan. Which one of those do you kind of subscribe to? I mean, yeah, I think it's just, they had to wait the Donald thing in some respects,

right? They had to recognize that, hey, this had happened, but there's nothing wrong with like, what I think how they've approached it and how they're trusting their evaluation and what they've seen and stuff we that you won't have seen even even though you know, you act practices and stuff, and you've seen much more than like nine times that people, but I admire it because i think it's uh it's commendable and and it's that whole theory of hey everything's there for the quarterback to succeed so let's have our young quarterback succeed like it's going to be a fascinating experiment like having

no intro like rooting interest vested interest in this uh it's going to be really interesting to see like, hey, how much does this help a young passer having everything around him? And I think as well, not only the pieces and the talent, but that system, like, it looked very like Donald catered, obviously, because he was the quarterback. But how that gets adjusted for McCarthy and how they, you know, do they lean more run game early or if he's struggling, like I believe like O'Connell can do stuff like that. And I believe that he can, he can really adjust and be quarterback friendly. So and I think you just couldn't like just paying Donald when you were Super Bowl. And there with all those pieces with everything I've said, and I think ultimately the truth is no. And so

they've decided not to do it. And that's probably what they thought as well. And that's why what they thought as well. And that's why this the Seattle thing is also like well if paying I believe Gino Smith could win a Super Bowl right and I don't think Donald could but he'd have to have everything around him and we kind of saw that in Minnesota. Now his left tackle did get hurt. And you know, you have a bad game occasionally. But, how much better was it going to get with Donald in Minnesota, year two? Yeah, it depends. I mean, that's an interesting question because

if they could have given him the offensive line that they've given McCarthy now in the middle and get Darasaw back, at the same time, it's hard to spend all the money if you are paying or if you had to franchise tag him. I think that Sam Darnold was leaving no matter what. Like if he had a chance to leave, he was going to leave because he knew McCarthy was behind him. So you'd have to franchise tag him. And that means 41 million, just a big anchor on that cap, which maybe they could have done some of the stuff, but they definitely couldn't have done all of it. I still think that they would have improved it on the offensive line from where they were last year.

And the Darasaw thing was devastating ultimately as they went down the stretch. But the other thing is that, you know, we talk about those pressure numbers where he had so many big plays under pressure. You and I both know those are not sustainable. Yeah. Same with the interception stuff, right? Like he had turned, it's like Gino was on the opposite end of it. Gino had like, I think 79% of his turnover worthy plays per PFF were intercepted. Whereas the year before he'd got maybe a bit lucky from that. Um, yep. Yep. Donald's kind of, and again, like we come back to it, like, what if this is the year

that Donald, that regresses, like those two things regress, oh gosh. Right, exactly. And they could, because the receivers are worse, the O-line's probably going to be worse. I realize it's kind of that. It's hard to say the coaching's going to be better, right? Yeah, yeah. Like what Kosti did, yeah. I mean, I don't hate Kubiak at all, I'm quite excited to see what it looks like, but as I've said,

O'Connell, I think is the best, one of the best play callers in the league. Kubeak's not there yet. And if he is, he'll be a head coach. So. Right. You're right. If the Seahawks win the division, then he's going to have a great chance at that. I think that the most normal outcome is the one that will happen or the most probably median outcome, which is a nine and eight season where Darnold gives you some thrills and doesn't quite get you over the top. But I, what you said, the word Superbowl, I think when quasi at awful mental got here as the general manager, he laid out a plan.

This is how I think we could get to the Superbowl and hell or high water, we're going to follow this plan and we're going to go there and we're going to take a swing at it because bringing back Darnold probably would have been settling for less than that. I think you can compete for it with all the weapons they have, but can you create a Philadelphia? Can you create a San Francisco from the Garoppolo or early Purdy era with Darnold? It's a lot harder to do in a salary cap universe. So they are taking their big swing. And that means that it's an experiment we haven't seen too often, right? That we, I mean, I guess you could say like Philadelphia was in the right spot to move on from Carson Wentz to Jaylen Hurts. So there's that, or Garoppolo got hurt to go to Brock Purdy. They were kind of forced

into it. The Vikings are willingly choosing to just straight up move on from a quarterback that played that good. You can't find too many historical examples, which should be interesting. And it will also be interesting to see what both teams are like when they play each other deep into the season. So what a preview this was that it's, uh, you know, July 1st, we're recording this and now I feel like I want to play this game was of this team. So I'm looking forward to the next time we get together when these two teams are going to play each other. So I really appreciate your time, dude. That was not just saying this, but like watching Brian Flores is defense. Like that's, that's always fun for me. So, and, and what the offense does. So yeah, it'll be a good matchup and yeah, hopefully we can get some, some heavy, heavy type formations against McDonald's defense. See what happens there. Yeah.

heavy type formations against McDonald's defense. See what happens there. Yeah. There you go. Going on a Vikings podcast and revealing all of the secrets of the Seattle defense. But your film breakdowns would reveal that anyway on Seahawks on tape. So thanks again and when we see each other again, we'll do like position by position. We'll go full hardcore. This is a bigger picture. So alright. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Sure thing, man. We'll talk again soon. And thanks everybody for listening.