Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Should the Vikings be hesitant to draft a cornerback?

Episode Date: April 8, 2023

Matthew Coller and Intern Haley talk about her analytical study on recent cornerbacks and how few top corner picks have worked out in recent years. Should that make the Vikings back away? Which cornerback prospects are the least risky in this year's draft? They play a comparison game with some awkward situations in the NFL, including Kirk Cousins and all the future Vikings QB rumors and Bill Belichick losing his fastball. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here along with intern Haley English who has continued to bring the fire when it comes to writing articles for purpleinsider.com and you should go check out her most recent which is living up to her hate-ly brand by hating on the idea of drafting a cornerback. Not exactly, but Haley, I was blown away. What you researched was how recent draft pick corners performed in college by their PFF grade

and then in the NFL by their PFF grade. And it was remarkable to see how many guys who have been drafted high in recent years have just been bad. Even some that had really, really good PFF grades in college, which I think is a decent enough measure, even though you looked more into some different statistics for this class, which we'll get to. But the fact that so many of them went bust, such a high percentage, should that give us a little pause about the idea of the Vikings

drafting a corner? What is going on with all these college corners who are picked high, struggling when they get to the NFL? Yeah, it was wild. Looking between the college coverage grades by PFF compared to the players' NFL coverage grades, out of the 34 corners drafted in the past four years in the first and second rounds, only two of them have improved on that college coverage grade. That being Sauce Gardner and Kyer Elam. And they're both from last year. So we really don't even have a full sample size on what they're going to be yet too. So like they can easily underperform. And now we can have all first and second round cornerbacks having below average or not like below average stats, but below stats from what they did in

college. So I don't know what the drop off is. Like they could be put in the wrong scheme. They could just think that the NFL receiving talent is too daunting after having almost an easy road in college, but it's a big question mark. Yeah. It's so interesting because, so you charted out the average PFF grades for all these guys. Some of them have been good uh like you know patrick sirtan has turned into a star jc horn has been okay someone like gregory newsom has been sort of

you know decent ish and those are really the only ones that are even averaging above a 70 pff grade trent mcduffie did like you said last, a very small sample size. He was successful for Kansas City. And I think you could say, OK, well, look, every position has lots of busts. But to see guys who are drafted so high, not getting through to being elite players at their position, it just does make me wonder if the Vikings should kind of fill it out with whatever other veterans are hanging around and not spend the first round draft pick on a corner that they're hoping can save them. And this is something that maybe San Francisco has been on to. I don't want to say like speak for their front office, but they don't draft corners very high. And what they usually do is

draft all defensive linemen who there have been a ton of success stories recently for pass rushers and defensive linemen in the NFL. It seems like they just draft a bunch of D linemen and then they say like, we'll figure it out with the corners. I don't know if the Vikings can really do that though, because Brian Flores is their defensive coordinator. And I think something we've established is if you're going to have Brian Flores, you desperately need corners who can cover man to man. So I'm kind of, I'm kind of conflicted here because there is a good argument if they're not getting a quarterback or even maybe a wide receiver that he needs his guy to

be his sauce gardener. But those seem to be so hard to find. And so many of these guys basically can't even really play in the NFL. Yeah. It's kind of crazy. Like most of these guys end up getting some sort of reality check when they get in the NFL because the receiving talent that they're facing is so much more than they face in college. And they may think it's an easy task, like, oh, I'll just go out and cover Tyreek Hill. No problem. But no, it's so much harder. So I'm not opposed to drafting a corner in the first round, as long as you get one that could fit your

system. Like I was campaigning so hard for the Jets to get Sauce Gardner last year like I loved everything about him loved his stats and everything and it worked out but he's one of the only success stories out there right now out of the first and second rounds in the last couple years so it is definitely like something that should be taken into consideration being you haven't had many of these success stories come out but I think if right, if it's the right fit, right situation, and he has the best stats kind of ever, and you really have a belief in him, then go for it. Yeah. And there was another interesting trend that you discovered, which was if in college they graded below a 75, which, you know, you would say is like above average. And some of these guys who graded 90 turned out to be busts. So it's not

like an always going to work kind of thing. And there were a lot of busts to look at there on your list but if they didn't grade particularly well in college that wasn't going to change i think the nfl often buys into this and every once in a while there's a dk mcaf that didn't produce a lot in college and then becomes great does happen a Josh Allen, but it seems like with this position, it's much more based. And I wonder if this is one of the reasons we've seen so many first and second rounders bust is that it's so based on traits. So based on athleticism at, you know, how they perform at the combine that a lot of teams want to say, we'll just project that forward. It'll be fine. And even with Derek Derek Stingley like there's no guarantee that

Derek Stingley is going to be a great player he did not play very well for Houston last year and we were doing that last year with him whereas oh it's all traits it's all traits and right away he struggled quite a bit that would be I think part of my explanation for why this has happened yeah last season I was like why is Stingley being drafted over sauce? Like I was like, Stingley's not good. He had a bad, like kind of final year before the draft and, but he was stellar in the years before, but you see that drop off and you're like, well, he could be good. He was good before. And there's some players in here like Cam Smith, who's kind of a player like that, but you can't trust if he wasn't great in his last season. And if he's not great in his last season in college, then how is he going to be in the NFL? So that's why I kind of said, if you're, if you're grading below 75 in coverage in college, I would not take that player in the first and second round of the NFL draft, just because if that's going to be their max, which will probably likely be their max in the NFL because no one's improved below 75 in the first and second rounds. I'd love to research like third, fourth,

fifth round corners to see how they've done. But as far as taking them early, no, I would not because you want a good cornerback, ideally graded over 70 in the NFL, and you're not getting those with those other guys. Yeah. And some of the recent ones, aside from Stingley, who I'm not saying for sure is a bust, but he does have that notable bad PFF grade, then bad performance in the NFL just through one year. But some of these other guys include Andrew Booth Jr., who didn't grade above 80. And then when he did get in the game last year, struggled. But there's a number of them. Also, I mean, Jeff Gladney is on the list here. Eric Stokes from the Packers has been a supremely average player, and he graded only in the low 70s. Someone named Lonnie Johnson. You had guys on here who I had no memory of whatsoever. Trayvon Mullen was one from 2019.

Didn't grade very well. It's just kind of been a meh guy in the NFL. There is a lot of that. Some of these players, I would say maybe we're overstating it slightly on how some of these players, like AJ Terrell has developed into a really good player and he was above 80 with his PFF grade in college. But we shouldn't say that they've all been busts and haven't worked out, but it's just hard to find a lot of them who did. So looking at this year's class then then there's one guy that's really interesting to me that kind of looks like he should work for the Vikings, but he's right on that PFF grade of

around 75. So I think there's a little bit of nervous there. That's Deontay Banks from Maryland. But what do you think, I guess, of the class in general of corners and what stuck out to you when you studied them statistically? Yeah, this is a really deep cornerback class. I feel like that's kind of the main thing we're all hearing. I've seen anywhere from like eight corners go in the first round to three corners go in the first round. But I think I've got eight guys on this list. Yeah, eight guys on this list that have been consistently projected to be first and second round picks here. And I think all of them are decently great cornerbacks. I think Devin Witherspoon is in definitely a league of his own here.

He's got those Sauce Gardner, Caleb Farley, I compared him to, but different situation type of stats. And yeah, Banks is that player who's that freak athlete type of guy who I think could fit with the Vikings. Yeah, the 100th percentile on relative athletic scores. So literally when he comes into the league, will be one of the most athletic players to be in the NFL. But then there's that like, well, why didn't he grade a little better? Why was the passer rating against pretty decent? Witherspoon, it seems with some of these stats,

looks like he's probably going to go higher than where the Vikings can pick. know a really interesting one here was Christian Gonzalez who's been getting a ton of hype from all the draft people similarly though like his numbers did not like to banks did not blow me away his pff grade is decent 83 a lot of pretty high completion percentage pretty high yards per attempt but there's also so many other factors for a college defense like if you get somebody from georgia they have an unbelievable pass rush they have great safeties great linebackers i don't know that somebody from oregon in a conference that throws the ball over the place and plays a bunch of spread that we can look at their stats in the same way somebody playing in the big 10 who is not facing maybe as many elite passing offenses. I think that's one of the things that makes it so hard.

Yeah, definitely. As far as Christian Gonzalez goes, I feel like I've heard so much hype over him and some people have even said he might be better than Witherspoon. Then I looked at his stats and I was like, where are you getting any of this information? I feel like it's a Stingley type of scenario because he shouldn't be regarded as the best corner in the class when clearly Sauce Garner is better. Clearly, Devin Witherspoon is better, but some people still think that. I would not be campaigning for the Vikings to get Christian Gonzalez. I mean, I think he's going to go way earlier than 23, and I'm pretty sure Witherspoon's

projected to be easily a top 10 pick, maybe even like top seven right now. So I think those two guys will definitely be off the board, and hopefully they'll have their pick of Joey Porter or Deontay Banks at 23, and I think they'd be good with either of those guys. Yeah, Joey Porter was another one who was above that 75 threshold of PFF grade in college but a stat that you pointed out that I thought that was really interesting is he only allowed 9.5 yards per reception and there's a guy on your list Tyreek Stevenson who allowed 20.8 yards per reception into his coverage so they were just throwing bombs on Tyreek Stevenson I think that's probably a bad sign but Joey Porter Jr. I think 9.7 relative athletic score, so 97th percentile.

There's a couple guys here who I think that even though history has not been super, super kind to corners, there's also probably some of that baked into their career PFF grades that was maybe their first year where they struggled and then had to kind of adapt to the NFL. I think that is definitely a thing that's been discovered. Timo Riske of PFF studied that corners usually struggle a lot in their rookie years. So that's probably baked in. But I think that there's a couple of guys on this list who you could say that you could draft more safely. Is that fair? Like there's, there's a couple of guys you could say the risk factor is probably a lot less. Joey Porter is definitely one of those. Yeah. He's a interesting player. And on top of that 9.5 yards allowed per reception, he only allowed one reception over 15

yards all of last season, which is crazy. And like you compare that to Tyreek Stevenson, who's allowing nearly 21 yards or like per reception, that's kind of almost, I don't want to say a league of his own, because a number of other players have allowed less than 10 yards per reception. But Porter is great in the fact that he doesn't do it often. So he's going to consistently lock down the deep portion of the field. He might allow the short pass, but hey, that's fine. It's the NFL. As long as you're not giving out the big play, that's perfectly fine.

I think Porter's that type of player who could be a good fit for the Vikings especially because he's really good at man right and a really good athlete 97 percentile he could probably run and he's got super long arms like he kind of checks a lot of boxes for them he initially was a guy that was getting talked about as the top corner but now it seems like that's sort of shuffled around on everybody's boards and one of the things I like that PFF has built into their draft guides is you can look where the mocks had them. And it's fun to look like what happened between, you know, the last two months where someone's changed all over the place. But I think that with this many good cornerback prospects, they will have a chance. And I wouldn't say that history

should totally deter them i think that what they should do is eliminate some of these players with their statistics like cam smith that's just too risky for me that's somebody who's grading in college in the 60s like that's one that you probably want to stay away from uh like you know is it is it keely ringo from georgia probably want to stay away from that. And I also think it matters with the athleticism at the cornerback position, probably more than a lot of the other positions in the NFL. Yeah, I think Ringo is another player. He doesn't have a stat that's out there like he doesn't have a stat. That's great. They're all about average. And I think, yeah, you might think that's safe because he's been he's been consistent, but he's not been consistently good in college. You want a player who's been consistently good in college so he could hopefully be consistently good in the NFL.

He's not that player who's been that. But the kind of dark horse player on here I like a lot is Emmanuel Forbes. Everyone says his biggest concern is that he's only 160 pounds for a corner. Yeah, that's very light. And he doesn't have that like tackling type of strength for the NFL that I've heard, but his stats are kind of off the charts. He had the second highest coverage grade out of these eight corners right now, and his like reception rate allowed, his passer rating against have all been kind of stellar, so he

definitely has the ability to be great in the NFL as long as he can develop more strength and he could be kind of a day to uh steal for a team whoever decides to get him even if the Vikings want to trade back um out of the first round I don't know if they want to do that but if they can put themselves in a position to get one of the seals at the cornerback I think he could be a good one yeah the second The second highest graded only to Witherspoon and you know, his overall, I think for a guy that doesn't weigh that much, because when we talk about those relative athletic scores, they're putting everything together, including a player's size, adding that in. So when his scores are really high, despite not having the weight element I think that speaks to his athleticism. It is kind of anybody's guess

when it comes to these guys, but I think you can sort of sharpen your eye a little bit. And I just like to think if you can't make plays in college, then that takes me kind of away from you. Like they, you're going to get targeted sometimes and make a play on the football. You're going to have to make plays on the football in college. And Forbes is a guy who does that.

And Witherspoon is a guy who does that a ton. So it's a, it's an interesting group, but I would not dismiss that just because of some recent history. And also because I think their need is extremely high for this position. I, you know, when we're talking about a Caleb Evans, that's somebody who's a fourth round draft pick last year, who had a couple of concussions last season. We don't know anything about whether he could be a starter. Byron Murphy has had some injury issues. Back injury always kind of raises an eyebrow a little. Like there's really no certainty with anyone in Andrew Booth Jr. So did you want to add anything else about your cornerback research before we move on to our next subject? I think that was pretty much it. Yeah. I'd probably say that Porter or Banks sitting at 23 right now, I think those are the two prime options for the Vikings that will likely be there for them. So it's just a matter of if they want to pull the trigger. And I don't think they should be deterred based on how they've drafted corners in the past, because I think that Banks and Porter stats are both better than Gladney and Andrew Booth stats. So I think I'd be more inclined to take them. There is a little bit of nightmares that Vikings fans have about the recent history of drafting corners.

And also there's just an element that Zimmer and Spielman always drafted corners. So it's like, can it be different? But it is a very much premium position. If you can get the Patrick Sertan or if you can get the Sauce Gardner, it's like having uh you know something golden on your defense uh the other thing I want to talk about

was Delvin Cook a lot of questions about Delvin Cook and his future for the Vikings the Vikings kind of put out there somebody did his age I don't know who did uh that his shoulder is coming along and he's going to be you know kind of good go, which doesn't come out of nowhere, probably is out there because they're trying to tell teams, Hey, if you want to trade for Delvin cook, maybe, you know, his shoulder is going to be just fine. And he's going to be the old version of Delvin cook. We promise. So you should give us draft capital for him. Uh, I should, I guess I wanted to want to, I wanted like, how should he be remembered in Minnesota if he is traded away? Because he followed Adrian Peterson, not easy to do.

And it seems like with running backs, we just dismiss the heck out of running backs. Some reasons that's deserved, and in other reasons, probably not. So maybe we should start there of how should we look at Delvin Cook's time in Minnesota, in your opinion? Yeah, from an outsider's perspective, like because I didn't grow up watching the Vikings, I think that Delvin Cook should be remembered as, like, a really great Minnesota Vikings running back. He went over 1,000 yards his past four seasons.

So, like, that's not easy to do. And he did it kind of being injured a little bit. And, like, he's just been kind of a consistent running back. I know his stats, like yards per rush and everything has declined um over the past couple of years but he's been a great running back and I think that sometimes the good running backs don't get as much credit as they deserve and he may be one of those players yeah I think so too uh I think he was a legitimate star player for them and one of the figures in the league who you would say was above a high threshold because there's a lot of good running backs but he was a cut above him and derrick henry you could say were the best pure rushers i think that there's

always just been this little shade of disappointment with him because he never became the receiving back that people hoped he would become when they drafted him. It was okay. All the things Adrian Peterson does wrong. This guy is going to do right. And that just never really happened. And the same thing goes for like the past blocking his past blocking grades have never been all that good. You know, and, and there was always something kind of in the way with him where he would start out and be averaging six yards a carry and it's going to be an mvp season and here goes delvin cook's dominating and then here's a shoulder injury here's a hamstring injury here's a whatever injury that always held them back and i think that is one of the main things when we talk

about running backs people will say well they don't matter i think that they matter your running game matters it matters a lot but part of the like you shouldn't spend on them you shouldn't buy into them is when delvin cook would get banged up or tired from running so much in the first half of the season it was just never really the same in the second half of the season and that injury element how banged up they get even through a single year you can never really predict year to year with them because of that and they do fall off quickly if they get hurt or they don't have the right scheme like they're so dependent i think we were always kind of waiting for that like 2 000 yard insane season from delvin cook and it never really came even though he was

excellent most of the time he was here yeah Yeah, but I think Vikings fans should kind of praise the fact that they had a good running back, a solid running back, then they really didn't have to worry much about the position for a couple of years. And after Adrian Peterson, so they've never really had big question marks at the run game. And I think now kind of if they do part ways with him, then they kind of create a big question mark in the run game. And until they find that next running back that can fill his shoes and everything, I think you should appreciate what Dallin Cook has done for you. And if he stays another year and is still a decent running back, then I think that's a lot better than some other teams right now

who don't really have a number one running back on their roster and are doing like running back by committee and it's not working or something. So, yeah, I don't think we'll ever really see a running back drafted in the top five ever again. Like I don't think Barkley would be drafted nowhere near with number two overall. If yeah, if it was this year. Do you think we have roasted running backs too much? This is not a leading question. You are the analytics expert and the resident hater of just about everything.

So but legitimate question. Have we roasted running backs too much over the last few years to say that they don't map? I think so. Yeah. Just because I think having a game changing running back, a healthy game changing running back like a Derrick Henry at his time, is it like can take your team to the playoffs basically by himself? he did that with the Titans almost two years in a row so I think they add a lot of value to your team and it might be hard to get like a special player like him so all the average ones yeah like go ahead and roast them they're not doing much for your team but once you have that kind of special running back who has that breakout season, then I think you should hold them to a really high regard. I think the answer is like yes and no. I mean, yes,

in the way that like they deserve to be roasted for how easy they are to replace. You can draft one in the third round and he has maybe an equal chance of becoming a great player from someone that you draft in the first round. There's maybe an equal chance of becoming a great player from someone that you draft in the first round there's all sorts of guys trent richardson leonard fournette who are supposed to be these just iconic running backs and this goes for bijan robinson people actively it's just automatic or clyde edwards a layer who goes in the first round because it's the final piece to the puzzle and you know just, just doesn't end up working out. It's not worth spending a first round pick on.

It's not worth signing to a contract extension. We've really seen that with Delvin Cook. The minute you sign them to an extension, then any bonus you're getting from them over an average running back is probably eliminated by how much you're spending and you're losing on surplus value. So there's like this complicated formula, but people are allowed to like running backs and they are good. And I think we saw last year when the Vikings running game struggled, they lost a lot of yards. They lost a lot of situations because of that. But when the leading

running back in the NFL is on a middling offense that wins six games being Josh Jacobs, it's really hard to argue that they're the ones doing any of the driving of success in the NFL. Yeah, definitely. Like running backs may not be the player that wins you the game, but they could make your life a lot easier. Especially like if you don't have one of the top quarterbacks out there, you can just chuck the ball like two yards downfield to the running back and he could take it for a long game. So it can make your like bad quarterback look really good, but I don't think it's going to be the biggest factor in your winning. Who is your favorite running back ever?

Ever, ever. It's kind of always been LaDainian Tomlinson. Not because he eventually became a jet for a year or two or whatever it was. I just always loved him ever since he was on the Chargers. don't know why um but there was one year I think did he break the rushing touchdown record or something and I thought it was like the coolest thing um yeah so ever since that he's been my favorite running back him and Lorenzo Neal in the backfield for the uh Los Angeles Chargers pretty unstoppable that's that's one that kind of crosses eras for us he played long enough to where you know you and i uh that don't cross over on a lot of age-wise eras for

throwback running backs can both look at ladenian tomlinson and have appreciation for him i mean mine was barry sanders it's just almost impossible not to be and thurman thomas in the 90s so those are that's the era where running backs legitimately were driving a lot of success. Not the same way quarterbacks were of course, but you know, those two guys, the lions were a competitive team year in and year out because of a running back, which we would just not be able to say now, but there's a, I mean, there's been a lot of great ones along the way, probably the most underrated Jamal Charles. You ever looked at his numbers? There's so many guys that are fun for like a minute. It feels like Chris Johnson was just the most fun.

This lightning player for like two years, three years, and then they just disappear. So they're great guys to have like throwback conversations because they're always cycling all the time. But, you know, just in today's game, the way it is, running games seem to be so based on scheme blocking and it's not just like barry sanders one guy kind of making everybody miss uh i wanted to play a game with you hayley since we had a lot of fun last week talking about uh the quarterbacks

going back through the drafts and looking at those. So I invented another game. I want to compare, and because we have like no breaking news to talk about, please, NFL, if you got anything, throw it our way. We're ready. We're prepared. So I want to compare a bunch of situations that I would call uncomfortable around the NFL to at least some least some of them to uh regular things or anything so that's the game is I'm going to give you a situation and you have to compare it to something whatever comes into your mind it's very vague very vague description for the game so let's start out

with this Kirk Cousins is going into this year with no extension and rumors by the day about the next vikings quarterback whether that's mox or whether it's mike florio saying that they tried to trade him to the 49ers or whatever it's going to be i compare this situation to something you're kirk cousins you're good you've been there a long time but this team like has not moved on from you, but kind of seems like they want to move on from you. Like, what is this like? Okay.

So like, this isn't the one that's the most out there, but my aunt is a very big baker and she'll bake everything for every type of event and whatever, like I'll, she's baking stuff for Easter and two days when I go to her house. Um, but she has this crazy whisk that's bent and mangled in every possible direction. It barely functions, but she claims it's the best whisk in the world and will make the best cookies and brownies and whatever. Yeah. So like none of my family has kind of the

heart to tell her that she needs a new whisk, but we all kind of threatened to buy a new one every year and it never happened so that's kind of the only thing that popped into my head with this though kirk is not mangled uh i see the other parts of the comparison of like every year everyone tells you like isn't it time to move on from kirk like don't sign up to that extension and they're always like no well just like with the whisk it bakes it bakes pretty good cookies uh well who what other whisk am i gonna get out there yeah i i could see that where they're always saying like but but if we get a different one and it's not as good as our current one then then what

happens and uh i guess you could tell your aunt then you just buy another one like if you draft the wrong quarterback you just draft another one this doesn't have to be your last quarterback. I like that for me. I went with, if you've had a pretty trusty car that, uh, let's say a Honda civic, cause that's what I have. And, uh, you know, just you drive it around your Honda civic, but you know, some of the things about it just aren't that great. You'd be shocked that my car is not that fast. It just, uh, it doesn't really have a lot of jets on it. And so I've had it for a while and I know exactly what it does and how it runs. It's very reliable, great gas mileage, but I keep every year driving by the lots and I kind of look at the lots and I see a Ferrari there and I see a Bentley there. And I'm

like, could I, nah, I can't, I can't. I can't. What if I buy one and it's not worth it? What if I buy one, I get in an accident, then I've spent all this money on a Ferrari or all this draft capital or whatever, right? And it's not as reliable as the Honda. And also I owe more money on it than it's actually worth. So that's like void years. That's true. Yeah. I've got a pretty old Nissan Sentra right now. It's great. I got good gas mileage out of it. I had drove over something too fast and I needed a whole new exhaust system a month later. So it's all right. Like it does the job I spend right now, but you know, in the future it's going to have to be replaced. Right. And all the cool kids that hang out, all the sports journalists, obviously, and analytics nerds for Villanova, they're all driving Ferraris, or at least the coolest ones are.

The only other comparison I thought of is like a person that's in a high school relationship that wants to end it at the end of high school so they can kind of go on and date college people, but they don't know how to tell the person. That's like, Kirk, we're just kind of going to keep putting out rumors till you demand a trade. Is that what we're doing? Okay, the next situation that we have to make a comparison. Lamar Jackson, if he has to stay with the Ravens, like what is that like if Lamar Jackson cannot get a big deal and go elsewhere or they match after all of this and they match a deal and then he just goes

back to the ravens what is that like so i kind of thought of you know like college basketball season just ended um what if like one of the top players it's like you enter the transfer portal you test the waters you realize that no one wants to give you a roster spot so then oh you still have a couple years of eligibility left like what are you like not gonna play so he walks back kind of with his tail between his legs back to his old team like nothing ever happened that's i mean it's kind of like you like the seinfeld references like george costanza quitting his job and then coming back and being like oh i was just kidding i fully guaranteed who's fault you're fully your face is face is fully guaranteed, right? Like just, I don't remember anything that just happened.

We're just going to move on from that. And then also all the other players too on the Ravens, knowing that they didn't pay Lamar and then they're questioning, wait, are they going to pay me? And it, it, it becomes a very uncomfortable situation. I was thinking like, if you were, if you were in school and you had a group of people that maybe bullied you or you didn't get along with,

and then you got paired with them for a group project. That's kind of what it's like. It's a very, very uncomfortable. No one wants to be there with each other. They don't want Lamar back on a guaranteed deal. Lamar feels like he's been disrespected. You got a lot of bad feelings there, but the teacher said you're together and there's really nothing you can do. It's kind of like the CBA said you're together. So there's nothing you could do.

Just as a side note to this, if Lamar ends up back in the Ravens next year, like, how do you think it goes? Like, how do you think he plays? Do you think he just puts it all aside or is it way too awkward and they win like eight games? I think it's way too awkward and they win eight games. One, they still don't have any receivers, so I don't think their offense can be amazing, but I think there will be this internal tension between everyone. You might not be able to see it on the field, but it's there, and I don't know how well it's going to go. I think he'll be on the Ravens next year, so I don't know how well it's going to go like i i think he'll be on the ravens next year so i don't know how well it's going to go i agree and the fact that because he's kind of holding them hostage with not signing the or well you know he's getting

on that franchise tag but not signing a deal somewhere else not an extension he's probably not going to go to otas or training camp when is he going to show up? Like that would be part of this. If he doesn't find a new location, then he's put behind and I believe they have a new offense. They also had to wait for his money there. So they couldn't just spend money that he gave them after leaving. Right. So they couldn't really improve their roster. Maybe they'll draft a wide receiver and hope that solves it. But yeah, that is going to be the most awkward place to be in the entire NFL. How about this? The Lions are getting hyped as a legitimate contender for the first time in probably like 25 years, maybe 30. What is that like? What is it like to have a team that has been so bad for so long finally get some preseason hype?

I'm going to compare this to some elite gymnastics here with the U.S. men's team. Kind of been historically bad. As of recently, I don't want to say it's been like 25 years since they've been good, but as of recently, they haven't had the best program and everything. And last year's world championships, Russia wasn't allowed to compete so they could put themselves in contention for third place because China and Japan are just ages above everyone else so everyone was hyping up the U.S. men like hey they've got these great pieces they have a guy who could medal in the all-around and he won gold on high bar and everything and then they show up and they fall a bunch of times and they end up getting like fifth or

something so that's what I kind of thought it was So I don't know how much you trust the Lions yet. Like, I don't know how much you trust the U S men's team, but that's kind of the thing I compared it to. You probably can't fully trust the Lions to tell you the truth. I mean, not just, I mean, last year though, we did this same sort of thing and they did improve their defense and made a lot of good moves. So I don't want to say that they didn't, but they came out and went like one in six to start the season. So they did let us down when there was restore the roar hype for last year.

I like the comparison. The U S women's team does not let you down. The U they're, they're like the Kansas city of the, uh, of the gymnastics world. My comparison is like trying to City of the gymnastics world. My comparison is like trying to convince someone that aliens exist. So I think that there's a lot of evidence that aliens exist. But until you see it, until you see an alien, you won't believe that they exist. It's the same way where you're like, well, look, the Lions have this top five offense.

They've signed all these corners. Their coach is a maniac, but they love them. They're offensive court. You go on and on and on. And yet still it's like, I haven't seen the aliens though. I wasn't abducted. You know, the evidence, very, very shoddy, very shoddy until you actually see it. So I feel like it's, are you buying?

Are you buying that aliens exist? Like who is the guy? Isn't the guy from blink 182? Didn't he stop playing music? Cause he wanted to see if aliens were real or something. I have no idea. That's a real thing. I promise. Wow.

I'm not big into the aliens. I love like those like ghost hunter type of show type of things. I don't like something that's fake. That's trying to scare you. But if they're like actually trying to look for ghosts and stuff like that's, I think that's pretty cool. And I think that exists um but i don't know about aliens okay tom delong who was he either is he their bass player their guitar player yeah he has a show on history channel like looking into aliens yeah their guitar player so there you go and they have a song called the aliens exist wow so he's a lions fan

um i i i would say that i that i am buying that the lions will be very good yes but there no matter how many like every time it comes up people come into comment sections or wherever else or like i've never seen an alien i've never seen the lions win in my whole life so they won't now that we'll see uh Okay, last one. The Patriot way is crumbling. Who would have ever seen it coming without Tom Brady there? And Belichick is, you know, he's looking at his age a little bit here. He's not getting along with his quarterback.

He had Matt Patricia as his offensive coordinator. What is the New England Patriots status with Bill Belichick like? I don't think it's too great. I kind of compared it to, you know, you might have something that's old, maybe a house or garage, something that's old and it's falling apart. And you just keep putting duct tape on it to make it like be good for another week or two. And then you keep adding more duct tape until like duct tape isn't strong enough, even though like duct tape is known to like fix everything in the

whole world. But eventually it's all going to come crumbling and crashing down. And I can't wait for that moment as Jets fan. I think it's like when you have a college professor or I guess high school teacher that has two or three years until retirement, but they really have to work out those years to get the right pension. So they teach the course the same way they've always taught it. They don't really update it. Don't really change it. And if you don't like it, that's kind of your problem.

I had some of these teachers in high school. I'm sure everybody did. Or you're just like, you're miserable. You're not even enjoying this. Who cares if you get an extra hundred bucks a month on your pension just go it's the same thing with bill belichick where he clearly wants to pass don shula on the all-time wins list so he's just just kind of i don't know like just grinding it out i guess and still teaching the course the same way like he didn't change it after tom brady left as if you could teaching the course the same way. Like he didn't change it after Tom Brady

left as if you could just coach everyone the same way, act the same way when you don't have your guy who's setting the entire culture and operating the offense by himself and whatever else. Now you have to actually work on the same page with a quarterback. Belichick's like, nah, not doing that. Nope. Not going to be doing that. Just going to be the old Patriot way. I think they're going to Patriot their way to about six wins this year. What do you think? Yeah, as a Jets fan, I don't want to see them. Obviously, I don't want to see them make the playoffs,

but you also don't want to see them win less than four or three games because then they're in the conversation for Caleb Williams or Drakes or drake may or something and that's like worst case scenario i'd rather see them make the playoffs than them get like the first or second pick in the draft so because you don't want like the next tom brady coming in there and you gotta suffer through that again is there a team that should be trading for mac jones i was struggling to try to come up with one i don't think so i feel like the 49ers would have been one because he could a okay quarterback like a below average quarterback who could work in the Kyle Shanahan offense but they've got Darnold and I don't know but yeah I don't think

any trades or any team's really going to want Matt Jones because he peaked as a rookie and I don't think he's going to get any better there is a part of me that says that since Belichick is so out of touch offensively, as he showed last year, that maybe if Mac Jones had a better situation, but the clock is very much ticking on the rookie quarterback contract. I think he could be like a Ryan Tannehill where if he had the exact right situation, could run play actions, had a running game, offensive line, good receivers that he could put up decent numbers. And while I saw him make a bunch of plays offensive line, good receivers, that he could put up decent numbers. And I saw him make a bunch of plays against the Vikings last year. It was like the best game of his career,

as most people's were against the Vikings. But yeah, there's probably some teams that, like, what would be the point if you're Washington or something? Like, what's the point? San Francisco, there is a point. Atlanta, there would be a point where you probably are competing for that division. I don't really know why they're doing the Desmond Ritter thing. I guess we'll find out. But not that many teams where it's actually a good idea for that to happen. All right. Last thing I have on the list here, here's a pro football talk headline.

Could the 49ers make a play for Aaron Rodgers. You nervous now? You get nervous? No, because I've heard that's completely false from everyone I know with sources with the Jets. So I'm not worried at all about the 49ers. They've got three quarterbacks on that roster right now. They're not going to add a fourth, like a Hall of Fame quarterback, to their roster when they've got three ones that they're really not going to get rid of any of them. So, no, I think that's completely false. The Jets just signed his former backup in Tim Boyle this

afternoon. So it's going to happen eventually. Hopefully, we're just waiting a couple weeks, and it's going to happen right before the draft or maybe draft night. I don't know, whatever it is. But I say the 49ers are not in contention i don't think so either i think this will just play out but anything that i can find to sow the seeds of doubt toward you getting aaron rogers i'm going to try to do uh any uh any questions for me before we wrap up yeah i've got one this week and it is besides the game with the Minneapolis miracle, pick a favorite Vikings game ever. Oh, ever. Hmm. Yeah. I'll just do that. I've covered.

Let me think about favorite games that I've covered. Well, I think the obvious choice would be the Buffalo game just this year in part because it just had so many elements to it they were crazy but also like going back to you know my hometown kind of thing and um you know like I I wrote an article kind of from a first person perspective of my whole time there and just what the build-up to the game like, how Buffalo fans were all in on this Super Bowl or bust kind of thing. What a crazy year.

And who knew at the time it was going to get even crazier for the Bills with the whole DeMar Hamlin thing. But the way that that game played out, we weren't even sure that Josh Allen was going to start up until the very last moment. He didn't even really come out for warmups. And then he comes out, they get way ahead. All this crazy stuff happens the justin jefferson catch which goes right up there with odell beckham's catch i think for the all-time

great ones uh how many times in that game we thought okay now it's really over it was fourth and 18 when jefferson made that catch like okay they took a sack this is over or whatever and then that happens the other one would be uh 2000 well there's yeah there's a few but 2019 the playoff game against new orleans we were going down there thinking we're going for a funeral if you've ever seen the like the new orleans funeral where they carry the casket and they play whatever uh that's what we thought it was going to be the vikings body in the casket after that game because they had just played so poorly at the end of the season. They were kind of fraudulent. They had an easy schedule and that game went back and forth, back and forth. Drew Brees getting hit

Mike Zimmer, making defensive adjustments, crazy plays. Take some Hill had like a 50 yard pass in that game. The offense for the Vikings coming together, the final drive by Kirk Cousins and the noise inside of that building was like nothing I've ever heard in my life, even at U.S. Bank Stadium. So and then it goes to overtime. I mean, a playoff game that goes to overtime in the final minutes. It doesn't get a whole lot better than that. So I mean, there's been a few. The weirdest one, I would say, although there's a lot because it's the vikings the weirdest one was 2018 vikings and packers week two they tied 29 29 both kickers missed kicks in the final moments both teams had like last second drives both teams if you remember there was this

bogus uh emphasis on roughing the passer so both teams had horrendous roughing the passer calls against them. And then the Vikings cut the kicker the next day. And then he became the best kicker in the league. And it was just the weirdest that I've ever walked out. Because in Green Bay, you're in the press box, you go down, but you have to walk outside to go to the locker room, which is super fun if they play in January. But this day was fine, obviously.

But we're walking over the fans because they're walking underneath, and there's no noise. There's no, like, yelling, cheering, whatever. If the Vikings win, there's enough Vikings fans when you hear that. And if the Packers win, it's a lot of noise, a lot of excitement. Everyone's just quiet. Just walk out like, I don't know what we just saw. So, I mean, there have been, yeah, there have been many, many

outside of the Minneapolis Miracle that have been weird and crazy, but those are a few that stand out right away. What about you? I mean, you've obviously watched Vikings football. Is there a Vikings game outside of the Minneapolis Miracle that you think of? As you're getting this internship, you're like, oh, I remember that game. It's got to be, yeah, like the Minneapolis Miracle.

Because I wasn't really rooting for either team. I just wanted to watch good football at that time. And that game was absolutely insane. And at the time of the last play, me and my dad are sitting in the living room. And we're like, I don't know what to root for. Do I want the Vikings to score? Or do i want the saints to like hold them and then the saints win but then like do you want the game to end on like an incomplete pass and then that happened and i was like oh my god like we just jumped up and we're like like what do we

just watch like it was crazy and that game was so good from start to finish it wasn't just the crazy ending it was like the very beginning the vik are up, I think, 17-0 at halftime. And then Breeze coming back. It was something. It's a great question. This was fun. And I implore people to go check out your article. I've tweeted it out if you want to go to my Twitter.

Thepurpleinsider.com website has kind of been a little on the fritz lately. So if it's not there, go to my Twitter. I tweeted it out. But great job on that looking into corners and, uh, we will do some more in-depth draft analysis with your analytics brain as we move forward. So great stuff, Haley. And we will talk to you all soon.