Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Should the Vikings have waited to extend Kirk Cousins until the DeShaun Watson decision?

Episode Date: March 18, 2022

Matthew Coller and Paul Hodowanic talk about DeShaun Watson joining the Cleveland Browns and the Vikings restructuring Harrison Smith and Adam Thielen's contracts and whether the Vikings should have waited it out when considering trading Kirk Cousins rather than extending him. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here along with Paul Hodowanek from WCCO Radio. In fact, we are now sort of co-workers in two different ways, Paul, because the other night I was given the opportunity to host on AM Radio again, the first time in a couple of years for me on WCCO. So I enjoyed it. So how are you, co-worker? I haven't even told you this, Matt, but we had a all company meeting on Friday, which I guess, or third Thursday, you were, you were not in attendance obviously, but Brad did say, we have a new person on Matthew caller. He's going to be hosting. So the whole, the whole station knows that you are coming in. So I didn't, you didn't

even know that, but you are being introduced to everyone, even though you are not there, you are a massive presence and yeah. Yeah. It's great to be coworkers with you again. Uh, I don't know how to really put it into words. On Facebook. It says it's complicated between us, Paul, but I thought that I heard from, you know, I live about 10, 15 minutes away from downtown. I thought I heard a huge roar the other day. That must have been what it was just being announced inside of your building that I was going to do some hosting there. They announced you before me. So that's where we are in the totem pole. Rightfully so.

So there's a lot to discuss, Paul, in the NFL today, as we record this just after Deshaun Watson finds a home and makes his selection, like it's some sort of freaky Netflix show, where will this serial sex offender land next? Deshaun Watson makes his decision when we return, um, Deshaun Watson decides to go to the Cleveland Browns. The Browns give him the most guaranteed money in NFL history and they set up his contract. So if he's suspended by the NFL, that it barely costs him any money, which is just gross on so many levels that I don't even know how to talk about this. I mean, every time it's come up when we've discussed it as the Vikings, as a possible suitor for Deshaun Watson, which they did reportedly check in on this, but weren't in the running for Watson.

It came down to the Browns and the Saints and the Atlanta Falcons. And of course, it's become just another storyline for the NFL to feast on as everything does. And it's days like today where you sort of throw up your hands and say, they're never going to care. No one is ever going to care. It is not going to make a difference how much you're upset online about Deshaun Watson or how much it breaks your heart that your team is going after someone who's accused by 22 women of sexual assault. Just none of it matters. And I think that's a really, really tough feeling for a lot of people. And in many ways, I'm glad that it's not here because then that's our entire discussion all the time is, are you okay with a guy who's accused of yada,

yada, yada, yada of playing as your quarterback. Would you sell your soul for a championship? And the thing is that the most logical approach is probably, and I mean logic, I don't mean the right approach. I just mean there's a logical case to say, look, it doesn't make you a bad person to enjoy your football team. You didn't do the things that that guy did. You can listen to Michael Jackson's music and you can watch movies with Kevin Spacey in them or laugh at jokes from that other guy who

was doing things, whatever his name was, Louis CK, right? But also I have never known how to say to anybody who is upset and doesn't want to watch that or cheer for that person or listen to that person's music how can you ever say to those people you're wrong like they're not wrong and the browns celebrated international women's day like two weeks ago or something like international women's day look how much our organization cares. Deshaun Watson. It's remarkable hypocrisy. And the NFL, after the Ray Rice thing came out, made Eli Manning do PSAs. Like, please don't hit your wives and girlfriends.

And yet this is the guy that they're saying, no, it's totally fine. It's not a criminal thing. And oh, by the way, if he's suspended, it won't even actually hurt him. It's just, it is so frustrating and I've never known what the right answer is. Should he never play again? I don't know. Uh, I mean, that wouldn't hurt my feelings if that was the case. And I know people will also say that, well, look, a grand jury decided not to, uh, go after him, not to indict him. At the same time, the legal system versus the preponderance of the evidence work two different ways. Kevin Cole did a statistical breakdown on the odds that 22 women could be lying. And guess what it came up with? It's almost nothing.

There's almost no chance that 22 women could come up with the same thing. So it's a hard one. And it's hard to see people being like, dude, NFL never fails, right? It's taking over again. And they're like, oh, man, I don't know. So good for you, Cleveland, I guess, on the football field. And if there are more issues like this from a serial offender, potentially, I guess, allegedly serial offender in that community, then you have to look at the team and say, you did this. You brought someone here that had the potential not just to make a kid mistake or did one bad thing as a young man, but did something on a serial type of basis over and over again, that could even be a threat to your community. And then you made him the most highest paid player in the entire NFL. There is nothing about this Paul that doesn't make you want to take a shower.

Yeah. It it's been hard just like over the past year as this has unfolded to not get, at least for me, I've had to kind of check myself to make sure I'm not getting numb to it. Because it's easy just day in and day out to just to not think about it, to kind of just get used to it and kind of throw up your hands and say, well, that's kind of the way it is. And you can kind of get defeated in that. And so I would hope he gets asked a lot about it when the time comes. I hope it's not something that when the Browns win eight games, start eight and two or something that it never gets asked about again. But I fear it will be. I mean, the Browns signed Kareem Hunt, like there's examples of this everywhere. There's continue, there's going to continue to be examples of this as things like this continue. And every time, you know, it gets harder and harder to throw your arms up in the air about it because it's just the latest in a long and growing list of them. So yeah, it's, it's not like when I saw that I said,

Oh boy, here we go again. Um, because this is what's going to happen and it's really tough to try to parse through and try to talk about. Um, but the Vikings don't have to do it. Kevin Stefanski now has to do it. Um, which he always struck me from the conversations we had with him and just his media availabilities like he um is very much an upstanding guy and wants that in his team um and it's going to be his responsibility it's going to be andrew barry's responsibility it's going to be deshaun watson's responsibility to be able to change that and keep their culture strong what we

think is a strong culture strong now that you're bringing this guy in and time time will tell if if it works uh but they took a massive massive gamble uh with this giving him so much money and trading away three first round picks like you have invested kevin stefanski you are tied to deshaun watson you are tied to what he does on the field and whether or not it's the right thing, you're kind of tied to what happened to him off the field, because you approved of that coming into your building. And so now we're going to see if that pays off with the Superbowl. Maybe it did.

And if a Superbowl is like, if they win a Superbowl, is it worth it still? I don't, I don't know. That's kind of what each individual person, each fan, each person in that organization has to level with. Um, and they've come to the conclusion that it's something they can, can get through. Yeah. I'm not entirely sure that Kevin Stefanski had anything to do with anything when it comes to a decision like that, that is a Jimmy Haslam. I mean, that is the owner. We talked about this with cousins where it's like, uh head coaches and scouts and everybody else they

could pick the offensive tackles but when it comes to the quarterback the owner is going to be the one who chooses what to do and as much as they gave up for him and then as much money as they gave him that feels like a jimmy haslam owner of the browns who says anything it takes do whatever they want just make sure he's our quarterback and that's the end of the story and that's what they did but if you're kevin stefanski you know just the other day i saw kevin stefanski doing this women's and football conference and he was uh talking to women about different women who want to be coaches different techniques that he coaches and things like that and they've hired women to coach on their staff

and everything else. And now they have to look at them and say, Oh no, don't worry about that. It's fine. We're going to win football games. Don't worry. Like just don't, you know, hang out with them or something. I don't even know what you tell those. I literally don't know what you tell those people. I mean, how do you continue to work there? Like, and this is, we're all hypocrites when it comes to this stuff in some way or another. We cover the league, but by covering the league, it's promotion in a lot of ways. Even if you're critical of the league,

it's still tying into all the storylines and everything else. But I think you can have nuance on this. I think you don't have to feel like Deshaun Watson can never play football again, while also feeling really bad about him becoming the highest paid player in the entire league and the most guaranteed money ever by what 80 million more than the next biggest guy in terms of guaranteed money what um you you can

look at the team if you're a fan I think and say man I've cheered for the Cleveland Browns forever and if this guy takes us to a championship that would be pretty nice because I've put a lot invested into this. But you can also have someone else say to you, I just can't look at them anymore. I'm going to go cheer for somebody else because this this is too dark for me. I think there's a lot of nuance there that you can that you can have. And I also think if you're the nfl uh you can punish people like this if you want to uh you can also maybe not just do lip service to people if you're broadcasters and writers you can talk about this in the right way um and not make it into some

redemption story or look at all the adversity that Deshaun Watson went through. I mean, you can guarantee that by the first national TV game is what we're going to hear. And just so you know, like wherever you stand on this, all I want to say to end it is just that Trevor Bauer tweeted congratulating Deshaun Watson, like another guy who's accused of doing terrible things to women, just so you know where it all stands, like just so you know who you're siding with. If you're that guy, if you're the person who's saying like, Oh yeah, screw it. Who cares? Let's go win. All right. Well, I mean, it looks like you're on the same side as Trevor Bauer, so I don't want to be over there. Um, but I also don't want to say that people should never play

in the NFL ever again if they have something happen to them off the field, because that doesn't feel right either. So I end up in this very gray area. And now I have to transition to what it means for the rest of the league that he's picked his quarterback situation, which feels even weirder. So answer that question. We'll move on from the moral discussion.

What does it mean that he's a cleveland brown uh the afc is just continuing to load up um not the afc west this time but uh the afc north is going to be damn good as well with joe burrow lamar jackson um steelers got to figure something out if they want to remain competitive in that division with the quarterbacks that are now on those teams. But if we're looking on the NFC side, it's just more teams that now need quarterbacks. I don't know if the Falcons can now just come back to Matt Ryan and say, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't worry about what we just did. We're pushing your money down the road to give more time for us to make this decision

or for Deshaun Watson to make his decision. They seemed pretty committed to that. The Saints seemed committed to that. So there's a couple teams now that have to figure what they're doing out in the NFC. But I think just in general, for me, the big takeaway is, man, the AFC is going to be so, so difficult to make the playoffs. Like if we're just going through those teams, like not one of the Ravens, Browns, Bengals, like they're probably not going to make the playoffs.

And one of the Broncos, Chargers, Chiefs are not going to make the playoffs either. And that just is pretty crazy based on how talented their teams are, because the Bills got to get in and someone from the AFC South has to get in. So you're just taking away some spots. So it's going to be wild in the AFC. And in the NFC, it means there's going to be some opportunity. You got Aaron Rodgers, you got Tom Brady, and you have the Rams, obviously. But there's a lot of unknowns.

So who knows? Well, Pittsburgh might be in actually a decent spot and i'll say why is because they are not committed to their quarterback or paying him a lot of money and now that all these teams have made commitments to quarterbacks you could trade up or maybe even just wait and if you draft malik willis develop him for a year have him on a rookie contract if he turns out to be good and then watson is taking up all the cap space there, which by the way, last time I checked, Houston was terrible when they mismanaged the cap around Deshaun Watson. So it's not like he's the perfect quarterback who will win you all the football games. And Lamar Jackson, sort of the

same thing. Their team had a lot of injuries last year. He got hurt a little bit because he's a running quarterback. Sometimes that happens, and they're not a perfect team either. And if you're the Steelers, you're saying, all right, well, next year, yeah, it's going to be pretty darn rough here. But eventually, Lamar's getting paid. Now, Burrow, he's a little farther away from getting paid. But Watson, he's getting paid. So our chance to build up a great defense and everything else and then draft a quarterback I mean it's there like there's at

least an opportunity but here's what came to mind for me when Watson made his decision and then of course Baker's upset and he's going to go somewhere Matt Ryan's upset he wants to go somewhere the Carolina Panthers have no idea what they're doing. Neither does Indianapolis. Neither does Atlanta if they have to trade Matt Ryan because he says, I'm not coming back. He's got enough money to just chill. I guarantee that. If the Vikings had dealt with the Daniil Hunter thing way before this and restructured Harrison Smith

and Adam Thielen, as they they have which we'll discuss to create cap space they would not have had to have done the Kirk extension to create the cap space because they created about the same amount with just Harrison Smith and Adam Thielen and it would have been I think 14 million if they traded away to Neil Hunter so they still could have signed these players and they would be sitting here with the music still playing and everybody scattering like psychopaths around the, the NFL trying to find who's going to be their quarterback. If you're the Colts, you're saying, how do we compete now? We've got all these good players on our roster and no quarterback Kirk, but now you can't do it because he has a no trade clause. And I'm not a hundred percent sure the no trade clause exists right now or if it kicks in for next year.

I have not been able to find that out if the no trade clause is on right now or if it's not till next year. But if they don't do this, aren't they still getting phone calls after this played out? Like, why did they have to? They've done this twice now with kirk why did they have to jump the gun to do this if they ultimately ended up just restructuring those other contracts anyway to create the cap space and now they took themselves out of the running essentially unless they're doing post june 1st and unless he's accepting a trade or that you know no trade doesn't exist right now until the next contract but i i don't really get why they had to

do that now. And they constricted themselves for even the potential trade opportunities that they would be able to have. So unless I'm missing something or unless this is still on the table, which there is no buzz for it to be, I think it's very reasonable to think you guys tried to just take care of this early to create cap space, just like you did in 2020 to sign Michael Pierce, which worked out great, and took yourself out of a market that was absolutely bananas and everybody was about to go crazy. Am I wrong in thinking this? No. I mean, Harrison Phillips and Jordan Hicks seem like nice quality NFL starters, guys that you can play on your defense. But if they hamstrung them into another year of Kirk, just so they could get those guys on their team right away, because they couldn't miss out on a run stopper,

or they couldn't miss out on a linebacker who had 100 tackles, because that is just quite the mark of meaning you're a successful linebacker. If that's the reason they got this done early, I, I, that, that astounds me. So yes, the fact that the Vikings don't have some flexibility at this point is really disappointing just for like, and maybe you still extend Kirk, but just to see the offers that you might get, like, again, for a team that is a step away or a team that's just searching for competency,

like, I don't know if we can overvalue just how much they might pay for that. Is it the right option? Because they probably like, as you've detailed on the website, there's probably a quicker way to competency and easier, cheaper way to competency. That doesn't mean teams traditionally take that route. I think they could have pressured the Panthers. They could have pressured the Colts. They could have pressured some of these teams to really throw in a little bit more. They missed on Aaron Rogers. They missed on Russell Wilson.

They now missed on Deshaun Watson. Everyone seems to not like this draft. Like all these things are coming up aces for the Vikings if they wanted to get rid of him. Jimmy Garoppolo's hurt. And then that's being like, now people are waiting on that. Like who is the, who's the shoe to drop now? Is now like Marcus Mariota just going to get a ton of money

because every team's going to search for a competent quarterback. Like they have to pivot to something and Cousins would have been a really, really reasonable option for a lot of those teams and so maybe you still extend cousins but the fact that you aren't even seeing what's going to happen seems rather weird because it does feel like Daniil is going to get moved at some point that's kind of what it has felt like this whole time maybe they extend him or something, but it just, especially if they decide to trade Daniil to create this cap space, it's going to be really confusing on why they felt they needed to do this Kirk extension first and lose a little bit of leverage because there was no, other than getting cap compliant, which they've shown

they would have been able to do otherwise i'm not really sure why they prematurely went and did this and i'll tell you just like the browns the browns could have extended baker mayfield last year but they decided all right we're going to have him play another year we want to be flexible if something comes up well that came up and now they have a much better quarterback than baker mayfield and yeah yeah, it just, I mean, the theme of this new regime, maybe repeating some of the old regimes mistakes that just seemingly may have made another one. Folks support for purple insider is brought to you by manscaped. They are the best in men's below the waist grooming. Manscaped offers precision

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Again, get 20% off and free shipping with the code 20INSIDER, that's 20INSIDER, at manscaped.com. 20% off with free shipping at manscaped.com, the code 20INSIDER. Unlock your confidence and always use the right tools for the job with manscaped what it feels like here is that they thought that they were going to be able to trade some of these players and get back assets and then the whole league went oh no no no no that's not how it works if you have a receiver who's set to make 17 million dollars and is 32 years old we're not trading you anything amari cooper was traded for what a fifth round pick because his contract wasn't favorable and he is younger and better at this point in his career than adam thielen and goes for a fifth round pick

so what were they offering for thielen and i asked somebody somewhat in the know, not from the Vikings about the trade possibilities for Thielen. And they said, does anyone want an old wide receiver? You get old fast in this league. It feels like just yesterday that Adam Thielen was, you know, sort of a young star and where Daniil Hunter also felt like, oh, well, when will Daniil Hunter be able to rent a car? But now he's going to turn 28 soon. And there's even risk that goes along with that. Not as much as with a 32 year old wide receiver. The same goes for Harrison Smith at his age. The same goes for Delvin Cook at the running back age where it just is very risky. And these extensions or restructures that they did, sorry, with Harrison

Smith and Adam Thielen, like these aren't good. These are not good for the future. Harrison Smith, I think next year is supposed to make 19 mil on the cap. And if they cut them, they can create 12, but then it's seven and dead money. And there's a void year for 2025 for Adam Thielen. And this deal locks Thielen for this year and next year. This all sounds very Rudolphian that like, oh, we need Rudolph right now. So let's give him that one extra year and then we can cut him after that. But then there's a void year or whatever it needs to be. And I think once upon a time, it was very reasonable for fans and media and everybody else to go. Eh, who cares? Like they've got to win right now.

2018, 2019, you got to win. Your team is intact. So screw the cap. Who cares? And that's the whole New Orleans thing. It's like when they were doing it for Breeze, of course it's the right thing to do. When the Packers are doing it,

it's the right thing to do. I saw Los Angeles added Void Years to their center's contract. So he doesn't have a big cap hit this year. Right thing to do. I saw Los Angeles added Void Years to their center's contract, so he doesn't have a big cap hit this year. Right thing to do. Your windows are very small, even with great quarterbacks. For the Vikings, though, I mean, this team could have probably played the middle of retooling

as opposed to a complete teardown. And instead, what they've done is they've done nothing. They have just continued to go in the exact same direction and probably make it worse. And I have empathy for the fact that they were handed a lot of difficult situations with the salary cap. But instead of managing those in a way that would help them be free of a lot of these things later, now we got Thielen void years. now we got Cousins void years now we got Harrison Smith dead cap if he doesn't play well this year which can happen at any time for somebody over the age of 30 it can all of a sudden just disappear he's a great player he's a

great Viking but it can all of a sudden just go downhill and you can't play anymore and injuries happen more when you're that age and they are sort of throwing caution to the wind here and what they're asserting is that it was all mike zimmer and i don't know who's behind all of this but there's only really one person we can have uh these moves pinned on and that's quesia daful mensa so what quesia daful mensa is essentially saying with the ways handled these moves is it was all Mike Zimmer's fault. Kevin O'Connell is going to fix it all. This linebacker will be better than your last linebacker, which, you know, maybe this defensive end or defensive tackle will be better than yours.

We will, we'll draft players to fill holes. We'll create just enough cap space to sign a center. Maybe it's JC Treader or something. We'll sign a corner or two, which of which there are good corners out there, but it seems very much like last year. And I guess my question to you, Paul, is with Devante Adams going to Vegas and with Deshaun Watson not going to the NFC, does that change your feeling at all about the Vikings chances with what they have right now and those improvements that I just laid out. I'm sure they'll sign a corner. I'm sure they'll sign a lineman. But of course, you're not getting like top of the line of those things. So second tier free agents of those

things. But does it change your viewpoint on where they can stand this year based on the lighter competition in the NFC? I guess maybe very marginally, like if he had gone to the Panthers, if Deshaun Watson had gone to the Panthers or the Saints or the Falcons, those teams probably vault up ahead of the Vikings. I'm not sure any of those teams right now are ahead of the Vikings, maybe the Saints, but that's probably debatable. So maybe one team jumps them in terms of where they are, but jumps them from going from maybe they were sixth in the NFC to seventh in the NFC or something like that. I don't think it drastically changes them.

The Packers still have Aaron Rodgers are still with the cap space. They freed up with Devonta Adams are going to come back and be able to sign some of their guys now have several first round picks, several second round picks to find immediate help with the wide receivers with wherever else they need help so no it didn't change much um maybe they could again move up a better wild card spot if that's where you're going but then they still got to win three road games to get where they want to go and i just don't currently with the current construct of this team, I don't see that happening regardless of if Devonta Adams is in a green bag jersey or not. I just, I don't see it. Does it change your mindset at all?

It does not because everyone is always sort of rising and falling in the NFL. And so there are teams right now that we are not aware of that will be better than we think. And then I can't tell you who those are because it's always a surprise every year when the Cincinnati Bengals, the Vikings lost to them in week one. And we went, oh, what a bad loss. The Bengals, like they're a rebuilding team. They're not going to be good this year. They end up in the Superbowl. So there's always unpredictable things that happen in the NFC and the team that I look

at and go, I don't really know what they're going to be, but it could be a lot better is the Chicago bears because Justin Fields is going into that second year. And we looked at Cincinnati's roster to start the season and went, I don't know, does anybody think this is great? And then look at it, it turned out to be really, really good. And then in the playoffs, they got, you know, some good breaks and everything else, but they went 10 and seven. And if Justin Fields clicks, then you're talking about, there's another team that's very competitive. Devontae Adams is a phenomenal player.

He is as good as it gets for wide receivers. But I also saw a stat that Aaron Rodgers is undefeated when he doesn't have Devontae Adams. There was somebody before him. There'll be somebody after him who becomes great when playing with Aaron Rodgers. And the rest of the Green Bay roster is just very good. Their line is getting back David Bakhtiari. Their defense loses to Darius Smith, but they still have a very, very good defense. Jair Alexander was missing most of the last year. He's coming back. He'll be a hundred percent healthy. So they'll have their shutdown corner. Like they have a great

roster and they have a really, really good coach as well, who has done nothing but win 13 games every single year. I don't see them falling off. I'm not sure what Tom Brady's going to look like, but I sure know that the Rams aren't going to be terrible next year. The Cardinals aren't going to be bad. The 49ers aren't going to be bad. The 49ers aren't going to be bad. Someone in the NFC East could be the team that surprises us. Maybe it's the Giants. Maybe Brian Dable is a genius.

And all of a sudden, they're good. And I think the Vikings play the NFC East, right? So you have Philadelphia. Yeah, they have a lot of draft capital this year. Still a rookie quarterback. That's a team that can take a jump. Right. And so can you be in the middle of the pack of these capital this year, still a rookie quarterback. That's a team that can take a jump. Right. And so can you be in the middle of the pack of these teams?

Like, of course. But there's also things that we have to consider too. I started adding this up yesterday. So if I tell you the names Sheldon Richardson, Michael Pierce, and Everson Griffin, you go like, yeah, okay, what about them? But if you add up their production from last year, they had 86 pressures combined and 10 and a half sacks combined, which is like, and I'm not saying they have this type of impact, but that's like a year for Aaron Donald.

That's the three players adding up to 86 quarterback pressures. For half a season, Michael Pierce is great. For half a season, Everson Griffin is great. And you have to replace this production with someone. And right now, your answer is what? A rookie? They struggled at the guard position last year. But unless you could sign someone really, really good,

which does not exist on the free agent market at the moment, maybe Andrew Norwell, but he's quite old, you're not improving that to the point where we're saying wins in the standings like when when pff does their wins above replacement a great guard might give you like a tenth of a win or something like that like it all adds up to all the wins but a single guard is not changing your life jc treader is a really good player he's not changing your life as a center uh he would just be really helpful but not making you go from the 14th to the third best offense in the league, especially with,

you know, still plenty of good quarterbacks in the NFC. The reality of the NFL is that it has a lot of good quarterbacks now. And, you know, so I think that unless there's some path that I don't see, no, it doesn't,

it does not change my mind. Would I say that I think the Packers are the number one seed in the NFC? I don't know. I don't know if that's going to be the case without Devante Adams, but are they still going to win 11 or 12? Probably because Aaron Rodgers is still Aaron Rodgers. And it doesn't, it doesn't make me think, oh man, NFC is weak. You are all good to go championship. You know, it's, it doesn't change my mind at all about what the direction should have been. Yeah. And I mean, right now the Vikings and fans should just be focused on, are the Vikings going to be a better team than they were last year? Because right now PFF Kevin Cole, I think does the, um, the, uh, like how your improvement index I'm botching,

whatever the name of it is, but it basically just takes all is your roster from last year better than what it's going to be going into this year and right now the vikings are in the negative so they right now have a worse roster than they did last year and you can scoff at whether some of these guys were actually helpful but just the starters that you're losing you're losing tyler conklin you're losing xavier woods you're probably losing anthony barr nick vigiligil, Patrick Peterson, Mackenzie Alexander. Like some of these are maybe addition by subtraction. Like maybe when you get the younger guys in there, they'll actually be better. But we don't know that at this point.

So they may not have been great, but you're losing NFL starters that you had on your team that were experienced, that were in that role for a reason uh whether or not they deserve to be and now you're gonna bring in a bunch of fresh guys that you have not seen before learning a new defensive system like do we know it's going to be better and so right now like their offense is is really incomplete and so their team is not better than where we were at the end of last year you like Harrison Phillips is probably a slightly less talented but more available version of Michael Pierce. He's going to be probably out on the field more than Pierce was. He dealt with injuries. And Jordan Hicks is just a solid

linebacker. But that's not where you make up a huge difference. If you're going to stack those guys, several of them over the top of each other then maybe you have a chance to improve your defense by several spots but right now you don't have the cap space to do that and so you're counting on guys you draft right away to be able to step in and play right away and so i think we try to look and say well look at how weak the nfc is like where can the Vikings make their mark but it's like they weren't above a 500 team last year like let's first worry about getting them above 500 and like in the playoffs before we try to figure out where they're going to be amongst

them because right now they're not they're not better than they were and the one biggest piece I guess I would ask you this like are if their impetus is to win right now, which is seemingly what we think they're doing based on the moves that they've put out so far, like, is trading Daniil Hunter and taking that cap space back and accumulating whatever assets and then using that money to sign someone else? else. Do you feel like that's a better step to, are you a better team if you do that? Are you a better team if you extend him? Because right now it seems like they should be, they've kind of, for better or worse, put their, push their chips to the table in the middle of the table. So do you feel like with Daniil Hunter, they're a better team or the accumulation of assets and everything else they get by trading him would be better for the short term. Yeah. I mean, they're absolutely better as a team if they have Daniel Hunter, but Daniel Hunter would have to agree to a contract extension. And even if they did the whole thing of converting the money, that's another thing that's hurting you

down the road. It's not helping you in the short term. And if you're trading Hunter, it's better for your long-term. And I would support that side because I don't believe in them in the short term anyway, until I'm proven otherwise, until there are moves or there are games that are proven otherwise. I have to be skeptical, just like I was skeptical going into 2020 when they lost all those players and traded digs. And I think we all went like Yanni Kagakwe is going to do this for you? Or rookie corners are going to start? Like, when does that ever work?

There's another part of this too, just to finish the thought on the Hunter thing, is I'm conflicted because I agree with you that if you're going to stay on the path of let's just try to win, how can you not have Daniil Hunter? He's the second best player on your team. But at the same time, it's better for you long-term,

which is always my focus is how can the Vikings eventually compete for a Super Bowl? So it is better to create that cap space, get something back for him. And then working against all of that is once again, who's offering top notch anything. Someone tweeted me and said, do you think the Giants would give us the seventh overall pick for Hunter? I'm like, I think the Giants are probably offering their seventh round pick for Daniil Hunter, right? With his cap situation and the lack of leverage,

that's what it's all about. It's not just what something is worth, how good a player is. It's how much leverage you have to make your move. And maybe this was a big mistake that the Vikings front office underestimated was their incredible lack of leverage because everybody else knows everybody else's salary cap. They have over the cap.com too. They can go check. They know what kind of trouble you're in. Another point about this though, is that if you do try to win now and you make win now moves, and that's what really, I mean, Harrison Phillips I actually like is kind of a longer term move.

But excuse me, I think 26. So that's fine. That's like among the things I suggested for them for free agency was sign guys who are 26 to multi-year deals. So good. Okay, that's fine. Jordan Hicks, I don't think does a whole lot for you. But Jordan Hicks fills a spot that could be Blake Lynch or that could be Chaz Surratt or that could be Troy Dye. I don't know if any of those guys would be good, but we

usually don't. Like when guys come out of nowhere and become good players after they've been developed, like, oh, this guy was a third rounder who used to play quarterback. And then it clicked in year three. The same actually goes for only Udo at guard where the guy had never played guard before, but he's got some really intriguing tools and he seems like a really bright guy. Okay. Who's going to struggle in year one. Of course he was going to my gosh, he had never played there before. He didn't even get the OTAs to practice there before. And then you say, no, no, no, no. Got to bail on that. Got to get a veteran in there. And you're not developing him there. and you're not developing

him there and you're not developing Wyatt Davis because instead you're just filling that spot so then you get to next year and you've just sort of filled in these spots and you go oh man why don't we have any depth or why don't we have guys stepping into these spots because you haven't developed them by playing them I think that you'd rather see Cam Dantzler play every single snap of this year to find out what you have in Cam Dantzler. I don't know if Harrison Hand is on the level of a starter, but I guess I'm willing to find out or draft someone and play them at that position and just see what you have. Your lack of ability to develop people, and this goes for if they sign a veteran safety too and don't play Cam Bynum there, but it feels like playing Cam Bynum is a major risk if you're trying to win

now. So it's this conflict of not only are you probably failing at trying to win now competing for anything serious, but also you're stunting your development of anyone who could potentially be something. And that is what we saw for years with the Vikings anyway. And that makes it really hard to then a couple of years from now go, Oh yeah, that like, and this is with the Rams. Oh, this third round pick is an amazing receiver. Oh, this, this, you know, fifth round pick is a significant role player for us or whatever. The Vikings have just not had a lot of that. And so now kind of what it comes down to is what's the next move? How does it make you a contender? Or are you sort of just playing neither side and continuing to exist as an NFL franchise in the purgatory that you've lived in for so long?

If I told you, Paul, let's say you went on vacation like Sam during all of this craziness and you, he's, he was suspended actually. He no, I'm just, I'm just kidding. He wasn't suspended. He's his family vacation.

He couldn't change it. But anyway, I was going to make up something like he, he was suspended for taking a gimme putt for like too far away. Yeah. And you know, like the Phil Mickelson, like he's not suspended.

He's taking time away. Okay. Wink, wink. He is definitely suspended. Right. And you know, like the Phil Mickelson, like he's not suspended. He's taking time away. Okay. Wink, wink. He is definitely suspended type. Right. I mean, uh, and Sam is not really an offender of the gimme pot. He's usually very kind with, Hey dude, you know, if you could put a nine iron there on that hole, this is going to be your only good hole of the day. Take a gimme. That's a par, you know? So I appreciate him for that. But, um, now I'm like forgetting what the point is. Oh, so if you had gone away and shut off your phone for a week and you came back and I said, Paul, we got to talk about this big move the Vikings just made. What do you think it would

be? What would be the first thing that you'd think? Oh, they made a big move. It's probably blank cousins, right? I mean, that, that has to be the move. I mean, if you're texting me about a move, it's gotta be about Kirk cousins. I think that's the only one that I think we talk about. I think so far this week, that's the only one you've texted me right after about was the Kirk Cousins news. So if you were bringing me on to talk about something, you'd think it would be the Kirk Cousins move. In general, not that much. I mean, a lot of stuff has happened, but this team, from where they were a week ago, isn't in a much different roster spot. They've just committed to that roster for another year, at least. I would have, a week ago, expected you to bring me on to talk about Kirk Cousins being traded, not Deshaun Watson being traded, or Devonta Adams being traded, or a a restructure of Thielen or the signing of Harrison Phillips.

I'm not sure I would have known who Harrison Phillips was a week ago if you came to me. So what I mean is if you if we if you didn't pay attention to football at all, not even a little for the next week or two. And then you found out that the Vikings did. That's what I meant is that you turned on your phone for the first time and you were like oh wow the Vikings did this while I was backpacking through Europe okay you see you see what I mean like what would it be it's a it's a longer and dumber way of asking you what you think they might do in the next two weeks that could be on the bigger side well if I was going to be surprised by something it would be now that all these moves have happened they still try to

see if someone would take kirk and then they come to kirk and they ask if he would want to be traded i but i don't know if there's any team that he would waive his no trade clause for if i'm going through them like indy has had five quarterbacks in like five years uh why are you going there to then pressure to win right away with a new system new everything um where where else are you going you want to go to the panthers and a regime that's probably about to get fired and then you are doing this whole song and dance over again where you have to decide you have to figure out if the gym and the coach like you or not why are you going to the panthers like maybe you go to the, but they have a new defensive minded head coach

that has committed a lot of money down the road. Are you going to the Falcons? Like, I don't know, but that would be the big news that could happen. But I push back to the people that say, well, Kirk just gets to control his destiny of where he wants to go. Now this doesn't change much for the Vikings. Now they just have to work with Kirk. But if I'm Kirk, why do I want to leave the Vikings? Like I have them right where I want them in the spot where they need to continually commit to give me more money because they don't know whether what they're doing, the ownership is on my side, apparently, because they want to bring them in. Like this is the perfect situation for Kirk to continue to milk more money

off of. So I guess the only other thing would be like if they if they really sell out like if they get rid of daniel hunter and then decide jordan hicks is gonna be the eric kendrick's replacement and not just side by side i think then we would have a really interesting conversation about okay where is this team's direction because they're pointing us in two different ways because if they trade to neil hunter and they sell off another expensive defensive piece like eric hendricks then it becomes what are you doing where what are you committing to are you committing to be good are you committing to full offense and we don't care about the defense um what are we doing here so i yeah the most shocking thing is if they kind of now push back

in the other well maybe we aren't competing direction because that would be the most confounding the most confusing thing to me is if they make all these they extend Kirk they push money down the road for Thielen and Smith only to then get cheap and to cut Eric Hendricks or to trade Daniil for something else like then that becomes really really confusing confusing and very, very interesting and probably the wrong move for them for the bet that they've made themselves at this point because now they kind of have to win. If it were somehow, some way, and I don't know what way,

Kirk for Baker Mayfield or whatever in a three-way trade, let's just say. Kirk for Baker Mayfield and then in a three-way trade, let's just say Kirk for Baker Mayfield. And then they send Kirk to Indianapolis and they send draft picks, whatever, you know, these things don't really happen in the NFL. That would be the most shocking. Of course, if all of a sudden that somehow the Watson thing did set off a domino

effect that ended up with Kirk being traded still, that would be totally stunning. I would say that if it's, we're talking within the next two weeks, it's probably that they use this cap space that's created. And maybe even by trading Daniel Hunter, they use the cap space they've traded or created on one player on one big move. That would be, I think, very shocking because the way I think it's going to happen is moves will trickle in they'll sign a guard they'll sign a corner or two and we'll have heard of those players and we'll talk about how they have decent pff grades or something and that and

that will be the conversation but you're not talking about like anything that's pulled the press conference at the mall worthy and uh instead maybe there will be maybe there will be because there's so many players moving the names of players who have moved this off season. Like remember when Khalil Mack was traded, you know what I mean? So maybe there's something in the cards like that. There just doesn't feel like a big, like free agent signing, at least just because they've kind of missed this first wave.

Like I'm just looking at CBS's free agent tracker right now, their top free agent coming into the year or into the off season was Taron Armstead. He hasn't been signed, but then two through 14 are signed already. Then it's Stefan Gilmore. Then more of them are signed. And then it's like Bobby Wagner,

Tyron, Matthew, Trent Brown, Akeem Hicks. Like none of those are these like franchise altering guys that you're bringing in. And part of that is like okay you cleared all this cap space to only then kind of sit idly by and not make a big play for some

of these guys like now at this point there aren't like a ton of these difference makers they can go i think like all the top guard like the seven top guards have been signed at this point like they're bargain hunting again folks for a guard like they're gonna be bargain hunting again for a center probably too like they like there just isn't the quantity or quality of players out there right now that like at this point would make me stand up and say whoa boy okay that was a significant improvement unless it's coming via a trade which maybe they do but i i i'm not quite sure what player that would be for at this point just feels like there's an ngakwe trade if quasey is just a taller and younger rick spielman then

or if he's just dancing on the puppet strings they love big splashes we do know that about the wilfs so i always keep the door open and uh if not then we're talking about would they still take a quarterback in the draft and that's uh maybe a conversation to have later so paul i appreciate your time here on a friday after imagine trading for a quarterback that you're going to pay the most money ever and making it a friday news dump on purpose right so that is where we are at in the world of the nfl these days so i appreciate time. I assume the big move we just talked about will come right after we're done recording this podcast, as happened to me yesterday with the Devante Adams news.

It happened to us with the Kirk stuff. We had a pod before the day, and then three hours later, we were getting on for another one. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Well, it's moving fast and furious. So we will talk again, of course, very soon, Paul. Thanks for your time, and we'll see y'all later.