Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Some JJ McCarthy optimism? Hints of Greenard return? (Part 2)

Episode Date: March 24, 2026

Matthew Coller talks about a line in Alec Lewis's most recent article about how the Vikings are optimistic that JJ McCarthy's work with a QB guru will result in major progress when he returns to practice. Also Jonathan Greenard posted in IG a reel that had a bunch of photos with him as a Viking. What does it mean? The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Also, check out our sponsor HIMS at https://hims.com/purpleinsider Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This episode of Purple Insider is presented by Fandul. BM excited that JJ is really doing everything he can to complete a touch pass going into his third NFL season. I'm sensing a little bit of snark there, BM, and I think that it is justified. It's just because it isn't his fault. He did not injure himself. It wasn't like he was skydiving when he tore his meniscus. He just was trying to play football.

But it also is not a situation where you can just wait for everybody. It is not like everybody's equal. And if somebody gets hurt and falls behind in their development, the team can't sit around and go, well, you know, there's a reason he fell behind in his development. So, you know, we've got to help him along. You really don't. Like, you've got to go win football games. This isn't elementary school where you have.

a teacher who if someone falls behind is supposed to help the student get back with the other students it's not like that it's a competition and McCarthy as of this moment still trying to learn how to throw a touch pass going into year three I tend to agree with what you're saying at the same time there's been other flawed quarterbacks who struggled mechanically who eventually turned a corner it just took time and I'd like to at least see even if there was a If I told you, hey, there's a one in five shot that he gets this and it really clicks. And even though they start Murray, they love where McCarthy is at. Would you take that or would you trade him?

I think you would take the one in five. Mama says I thought Caleb Williams was a bust after his first year, but he did show a lot of promise last season. I agree. Now, there is a difference between the two. One is, you know, Williams is just much more gifted, much more gifted player than McCarthy, that's why he's the first quarterback and McCarthy is the fifth quarterback off the board. But there were some of the same issues and immaturity is one of them that you, when you throw in a quarterback that young and you set the expectations and that's another similarity is that

Williams, remember what people were saying about Caleb Williams when he got to Chicago? This is the best situation that any number one pick has ever had in NFL history, which probably was true, but I mean, that's a weird way to frame it since most teams are tanking and are awful. So I don't, you know, that's, it doesn't mean that Chicago was actually good. It just like, yeah, okay, well, that's, I don't know, like a dunk contest of a bunch of short people that can't dunk. Like, yeah, the Chicago was the tallest of the short people that can't dunk. But that doesn't mean that they were actually a good dunker, if that metaphor makes sense. But his development was enormous under Ben Johnson.

I think that McCarthy had some benefits, coaching being one of them, that Caleb Williams didn't have. Williams, that whole story from Tyler Dunn and the coaches trying to implement his college offense. I mean, just very Bush League type of stuff. Iber Fluse was clueless. They should have won at least three or four more games.

And, you know, so that was a tough position that McCarthy wasn't in. And that is the other part where it becomes harder to argue for him is by, circumstance, a lot of teams, offensive linemen got hurt and they worked around it with good quarterbacks. It's pretty rare that a quarterback is playing with all five starting offensive linemen. But to begin your career with it was tough, but I mean, it's very rare that you have the best wide receiver in football. That's also a thing that J.J. McCarthy

had or multiple pro bowl caliber players around you that you can lean on, T.J. Hawkinson, Addison, Edison, is of that caliber and a coach of the year. You usually don't get your first starting attempt with the coach of the year from the previous season. So all these things are a little bit different. But to your point, though, about Caleb Williams, it shows that someone could have this very glaring weakness

and everyone says, it's not going to work. And then something can click and they can make improvements. So that, I mean, that certainly can happen. BM says realistic goal for JJ. this off season is to see if he can unsee wens for number two, as mid as Wence was last year, he was clearly the best quarterback on the roster. No doubt about that. He played better.

And he was bad, but he played better. If all of Justin Jefferson's best games were with Carson Wentz, it really says a lot about where McCarthy was last season. And you're right, though. I agree with that that if he beats out Carson Wence, here's what it means. because who is who is KOC really going to choose for his QB2? What is the key word for KOC and his backup quarterback? What is it?

It's trust. That's what it is. What O'Connell wants is his backup quarterback to come in and run his freaking offense. That's what he wants. He doesn't, all of you've talked about, well, he's going to have to, you know, change for Kyler Murray, but you don't have to change that much. You have to change probably to adapt to some things that he loves. likes and you might have to adapt your own mindset to be okay if he just scrambles out of the

pocket and you don't want him to. But it's not like you have to suddenly implement a grade school offense for Kyler Murray. Now, you can pair things down like they did for Sam Darnold and slowly build. That's different. I thought in 22, they put too much on Kirk Cousins. And I think he would say that and maybe COC would agree right off the bat. It was like every idea KOC's ever had. It's like going on Kirk Cousins. By 23, they had figured it out together of what they liked, what they didn't like, what worked. And we started to see a click. That process worked faster with Sam Darnold because he had already gone through it with Kirk, I think.

And Darnold's first few games, there's not a lot going on there. I mean, it's, yeah, he takes a 97-yard touchdown. But they ran a lot and they actually had success running early in that season. They ran play action. I remember looking at the run-pass ratio and going, is this possible? Is it possible that KOC is running more than he's passing early, early on in 2024? And then it opened up and then the running just collapsed after Darrasaw got hurt. They had a pass like every play.

And then they put it all on Darnold's shoulders, which eventually fell apart. But throughout that season, it grew and grew and grew. So it's not like O'Connell is not capable of starting a kind of square one with somebody. But square one has to be an NFL offense. It can't be the high school offense they were running at the end of last season, where they're just putting in their big personnel and they're running first and second down and they're throwing a lot of play actions and stuff like that without motions, not a lot of formations.

And they're just sort of trying to survive the last few games to let Brian Flores' defense do their thing. That's not what you have to do with Murray. Murray can handle, and I've seen it, a full, complete. NFL offense with every motion, every play action, under center, out of shotgun, any formation you want, any route combination you're looking for, any read in the secondary, he can handle all of it because he's been an NFL quarterback. So, and he's been in an offense that has a lot of roots that are similar to this under Drew Petting. So the question for McCarthy is, can you do all that too? Because if you can't, then they will have Wentz play. That's what it really comes down to.

And last year, he couldn't. He wasn't ready. So can he prove that he's ready? And that's why the throwing, the throwing is huge. But I thought the timing was the problem as much as throwing it. So throwing routes on air is great and learning technique is great. But it's really going to come down to can you get the timing of the offense down for J.J. McCarthy?

David says J.J. won't get first team reps. Murray needs all of them to learn KOC system. KOC would hate to see JJ look better than Murray. Yeah, well, he's not going to look better than Murray because Murray is a really good NFL quarterback who's had way, way more experience. And also, guys, I think you need to just look at his Wikipedia, just just take a look. Just take a look at his Wikipedia and his background. And like, this guy is a, is an alien. He really is from high school. He at the time, and I don't know if this has happened since, at the time in high school,

school, he won the Texas high school player of the year award, like it's Mr. Texas football or something like that, twice, which no one ever had before. And he went 42 and O as a starter. And I know, like, hey, this is high school. It doesn't matter. Whatever. He goes into college and I forget what it is, like throws 40 touchdowns, wins the Heisman. I mean, this is somebody whose pedigree is through the roof. His raw talent is in the background of, being incredibly accurate as a passer. And in practice, I'm certain that it's going to look really good for Kyler Murray because his accuracy is phenomenal.

And his timing for hitting the back foot and letting the ball go when he does it and he throws on time, he can put that football in between the numbers anytime he wants to. And that's just something that in a practice field is this is going to look very different from someone who has been struggling with accuracy and throwing technique and everything else. Like, Murray is a special talent when it comes to that. It doesn't mean everything's going to go perfect for him because there are limitations at the NFL level and it is the NFL and even Patrick Mahomes can miss the playoffs. But in terms of like raw talent, arm talent, it's really, really good.

But, you know, in terms of like, is, I think you're making, what was the joke? Is that the like, bro, is that a Brosmer joke? Yeah, I think it is. because last year there was the idea that they didn't want to let Brosmer play against the Chargers so he wouldn't look better than JJ. That's good. That's good. But I think practice is really going to tell the story about how different the quarterbacks are

unless McCarty can close the gap. P3T3 predicting an 11 win season. I think we're a long way away from predictions, but I also think that that's not crazy. C-D-R-C-R-C-Sys. if John Beck has trained McCarthy before, what is the hope he can fix the mechanics now, should have gone after Josh Allen's coach. Well, like I said, I mean,

Anthony Richardson worked with Josh Allen's coach and didn't have any different results. So there's no miracle workers. There are a lot of people who might claim that they are in the quarterback space or maybe even whispers, some might say, some might say. But there's no miracle workers in football. If there were, that person would make $1 billion a year because that's what it would be worth to take balls of quarterback clay and turn them into beautiful gold.

But there isn't. Now, McCarthy, yes, he's worked with Beck before. That is not something that means that John Beck doesn't know what he's doing. He does. He's worked with many quarterbacks before. And if you go to his website, you'll see pictures of the quarterbacks. he's worked with. Well, McCarthy's older and has now seen what it takes to be in the NFL,

what type of concepts are used and what type of throws. And I think he can bring that experience and whatever growth he's been able to make back to a quarterback guru to work on it. But there is no magic formula. It's either you're going to get it and you're going to put the work in to get it or you're not. And he has to, and some people can't. And when you think about the margins,

I always like to think of the margins through golf. Maybe I'll try to do this through basketball, too, if you're not a golf person. So if you're a golf person, think about it this way. If you shoot in 18 holes, if you shoot par, that's like 72, right? Most courses, 72 par. You're awesome. I mean, J.J. McCarthy is an awesome football player, right? I mean, he's fast and his arm is super strong and he's really, really good at football.

99th percentile of all people who ever try to play football, right? But the thing is that the top level pro golfer on the same course that that amazing golfer hits 72, they're going to play 10 under par. Now, what is that? That's only a handful of holes that are slightly different. One put that goes in, one chip that lands a little bit closer, the gap between those two guys, is not, not big, but if they played four days in a row, one guy would be 40 shots ahead. Well, that's like completing 70% of your passes if you're Kyla Murray and 57 if you're

JJ McCarthy. And those are the differences. And if you can smooth that out and close that gap, then you have a chance to be a starting quarterback in the NFL if you're McCarthy. But it doesn't, that's the hard part about evaluating it in practice, is that it doesn't really become clear when you're watching in practice. if someone's going to be a 64% completion percentage or 57. I mean, if you, I mean, that would be an amazing eye.

That would be like, that was an issue. I think it came up in Moneyball where, you know, can a scout really tell if someone's going to hit 230 or 250? And the answer is probably not. And yet the difference between 230 and 250 is a lot. Some scouts would probably tell you yes. But I mean, that's, that's one hit a week is a difference between being 270 and 230 hitter in baseball. Basketball, it's what, one three pointer every three games is the difference

between 40% and 32%. 32, you're terrible. 40, you're making $100 million, right? The gaps are small. So how do you close them if you're J.J. McCarthy? How do you make yourself get to that level of consistency? And I mean, it's a start. It's a start. And we've seen them at least get closer at times in practice in 2024, because there was real development there. I didn't imagine that. Brett says isn't Mendoza older than McCarthy, let the kid compete. The thing about that is yes. Okay, yes, that's true.

But with quarterbacks, those little age differences, I just don't think that they mean a lot. Like, I know what you're saying, but, and sure, if you went back several years, with Mendoza, then you would probably say, well, yeah, he wasn't ready to be an NFL quarterback. Then fair enough, fair enough. But generally, when it's been looked at, it is year one, year two, year three tells the story as opposed to how old someone was at the quarterback position. Jay Mulls, we have JJ for two more years, possibly if we wanted his fifth year option.

Three, if he's looking better, they should keep him and Kyler for the next three, next three, if Kyler plays really well, both are injury prone anyway. I do think that you get to a point where it's just better to move on for everybody, whether it's a draft capital situation or it's just grown uncomfortable, or maybe you think you can improve by trying to draft the quarterback of the future and you've already decided it's kind of over. But I understand your point. I mean, they have contracts.

And if you signed Murray to an extension and you still had J.J. McCartner, for another year as a backup quarterback, you might as well keep him. It usually ends up to a point, though, where both sides just say, all right, like, for example, the Arizona Cardinals right now and Kyler Murray, both sides got to a point where they said, you know, it just doesn't make sense for you to be here. It doesn't make sense to have Kyler Murray win them seven games. It makes much more sense for them to get Arch Manning or whoever else at the top of next year's draft and play Gardner Minshu.

It just makes more sense. And that could be, hey, it just makes more sense. to trade J.J. McCarthy after, I don't know, he's shown some development. He's gotten into a couple of games. Maybe he has really good preseason. And some other team comes calling that's desperate and says, all right, fine, we'll give you a second round pick. Thanks for the development. We'll take McCarthy. But yeah, I mean, you can let this play out slowly. That I totally agree with. BM says love and golfer for sure better overall quarterbacks than Kyler. You can make an argument that Caleb has grown to become a taller Kyler.

I don't think he's, I don't think Caleb is playing similar football to Kyler at all. Because Kyler is way more accurate than Caleb Williams. I mean, crazy more accurate. We're talking a gap and completion percentage is not accuracy. I understand that. But we're talking about a gap of like 13% between those two. And when you look at a pro football reference, go check this out, has on target percentage and bad throw percentage.

And Kyler Murray is top notch, like top 10 when it comes to those. Gough and, so here's the thing about Murray. Gough and love, if we compare their performances to Kyler Murray's three seasons where he's been really good, golf certainly has more gaudy numbers. And I would agree, like, with that situation and he's been better, he does have this catastrophic issue when there's pressure, which I would factor into that conference. conversation and he certainly does not well here's the crazy thing if a quarterback run if a quarterback passes for 4300 yards and scores 35 touchdowns you're like wow what a throwing season that guy had

no you don't say that you say what a great season he had you don't say what a great season throwing versus what a great season running kailer murray in 2004 totaled 4300 yards ish I think it was 3,800 in change and 500 in change. They're like a 4,300 yards. And he scored 29 touchdowns and through 10 interceptions. But we just, we just look at the running as like, that's over there. That's over in the corner, this thing with the running. But when you start adding it up and going, all right, well, how many quarterbacks in

2024 had more than, I guess we could look this up? Maybe we should look this up. How many quarterbacks in 2024? And I know other quarterbacks had, it's true that other quarterbacks had running. to, but not Jared Goff. So if we're making that comparison, let's take a look. How many quarterbacks in 2024? You can see I was looking up Ryan Van DeMarke.

Hi, Ryan Van DeMarc. Welcome to Minnesota. Your passing stats are bad because you're a tackle. All right, let's take a look. So if we just look at passing yards and touchdowns, so golf, I mean, golf's 2024 was phenomenal, 37 touchdowns, 12 picks. And I don't think Murray is better than golf. But here's, here's a way to.

look at this. There were only five quarterbacks who threw for more than 4,300 yards. And they're all pocket quarterbacks, Darnold, Gino, Baker, Gough, Burrow. Lamar Jackson had 4,100 yards and then ran for like 1,000 and should have been the MVP with 41 touchdowns in 2024. So if we look at at Murray, he finished with 3,8151 and 21 touchdown. So I thought it was 24. It's 21. And he had five rushing, which made it 26. So if we added his rushing yards, which was 521, then he gets to about, he would have been sixth. That's what I mean about those rushing yards is how we just forget. He would have been sixth in passing yards if we added the rushing and passing.

So total yards. And touchdowns, he had 29. And I know some of these guys had running touchdowns like Josh Allen and Bo Nix. But 29 touchdowns puts you in the top 10 of total touchdowns from your quarterback. So that's kind of the point about Murray and some of those statistics of like how good Kyler actually is. And that was just 2024. It's not even his best season.

And it's just that that running element, we kind of ignore it. Like, oh, yeah, well, he kind of runs. Well, when you see him run for a 35 yard gain after a blitzer comes free, you'll feel a little differently about him. But the reason he's better than Williams right now is accuracy. It's just a lot, a lot better than Caleb Williams. But golf and love, yeah, I think you could certainly argue they're better. World's better, no.

It's the same with Dak. It's like, Dak is definitely a better quarterback than Murray, but he's not worlds better than Murray. They all have their ups and downs. They've all had different things happen when circumstances have changed. Dak Prescott's had eight win seasons when he hasn't had good teams. And he's missed the playoffs plenty in his career. When he's had great teams, he's been the number one offense.

and the same for Jared Gough. I don't think if we put it in those terms, if everything was right for Murray, I don't think they're the number one offense. I would say that where Jared Gough, Dak Prescott, maybe Jordan Love, could potentially get there. But at least, at least it's like ballparking

with him for all the quarterbacks except for Matthew Stafford. Tom said would suggest looking at McCarthy's completion percentage growth over his first three seasons. I would suggest never bringing up his college anything ever again. It just doesn't matter, man. Like, I know what you're saying. You're making the point of like, hey, he's grown before, but nothing, nothing matters right now, except for him showing up

at this training game. Like, we can, or even just off season in general, OTA's mini camp, you can relitigate and you can try to pick apart. Well, if we just look at like big time throws after the last four games of the season when it was daylight out, then McCarty is great. Like, okay, that's wonderful. But none of this matters. They've already gone out and gotten another quarterback who is a clear-cut starter, who we just compared to the rest of the NFC and said, I don't know, I would take like

four of those guys ahead of him. I would take golf and I would take Prescott. Well, Jaden Daniels upside. So far, Jaden Daniels' career, he's had a good season, a bad season with injuries. So, you know, future. But if we're talking like to win, I don't know, one guy. game right now. I mean, it's close. Future I would take Jaden Daniels next 10 years, but where is he as a quarterback at this exact moment? I think it's close between those two. There's not that many.

That's kind of the point. So J.J. McCarthy has had his team already go out and get someone else a quarterback. And now they're hoping that he can go to a quarterback guru, work over the summer, and become better at maybe the most fundamentally important thing in this. offense and for any quarterback in the NFL, that is nothing, and I know it's not your point. So I don't mean to misconstrue your point. But like, your point is, hey, this kid has always been able to grow. It's fair enough. Fair enough.

Maybe not so much last year, but you could maybe make the argument at the end of the season. But none of that really matters except for he has to just show up and prove it. Because whatever's happened in the past, whatever he won before at IMG and Michigan and whatever else sort of off the table at this point. I think that his reputation has to be proven correct. His reputation was coming out, was that he was very smart and that he was going to have the highest degree of character. He was going to work the hardest.

Nobody was going to outwork him. He was going to make major gains and improvements and he was going to be selfless and he was going to put everything into football, dedication 24-7. it's it's now or never this is a make or break type of situation uh bm says there isn't a GM in the league that should pick up and call howie roseman i agree that's not a good idea uh you should probably just avoid trading with the philadelphia eagles uh p3 t3 who leaks info on a potential uh jonathan granard trade his agent looking for leverage on a deal that's a good question

actually, which side would tell Schaefter? Would it be the agent because he's maybe frustrated with the contract negotiations and has maybe it's been brought up that they could trade him and says, all right, Schaefter, put it out there. We want to go somewhere else. Or would it be the team that is saying, Jonathan, if you don't want to play on this contract, we'll just trade you. And then we'll, or could it be the team saying?

hey, I wonder what's out there. Let's have Schaefter tweeted out because remember, Stefan Diggs's tweet, this is how crazy the world is. Stefan Diggs's tweet was seen. Remember he said time for something new or whatever it was cryptic stuff that he threw out there. His tweet was seen by the Buffalo Bills.

And they were like, we better call the Vikings and see if he wants out. That's how they got Justin Jefferson. The story of the Vikings getting the best receiver of a generation starts with Stefan Diggs tweeting after they extended Kirk Cousins. Oh, man, why would you watch any other sport? This is ridiculous. So I don't know who leaked it out, but clearly the offers haven't been enough.

Otherwise, he'd be an eagle or whatever. Is that Kyra? Do anything to keep Harrison Smith? It's up to Harry. You know, Harry was playing in the flag football. thingy the other day, which I was not tremendously shocked to see guys who took it incredibly seriously versus some NFL players who were trying to have some fun out there. But, you know, I mean, I guess that's okay.

I would be so mad if I was the Bengals. I'd be like, wait, someone could step on Joe Burroughs foot during this. But Harry was out there doing that. I don't know what Harry wants. It's clear that the Vikings, what I do know is that the Vikings, would take him back if he wants to come back. It's all, it's all on him, whether he wants to return or not. He has not given them, it seems, a clear-cut answer.

As of right now, they haven't done anything with the safety position. And I don't even think that a draft pick would tell us this. We might not get this answer until training camp, because if you're Harrison Smith, at this point, you don't need any further training on this defense. Like, you call the defense. You know it as well as the defensive coordinator does. So Smith could take the entire spring and summer off and then just arrive in training

camp and say, I'm back. I've worked out a new contract. We might not get an answer that soon on Harrison Smith. BM, the NFC North filled with B plus teams. I think you could say that for if I'm going to do this at some point. I want here. I want to try an experiment this year because I've always really not. liked power rankings very much.

And one of the reasons that I don't like power rankings is there are mostly just the standings. And I think that there was a time last year, because you guys know I follow the WNBA pretty closely, there was a time last year where ESPN's power ranker for the WNBA went 13 for 13 with the standings. It was just, it was just the standings. And I'm not calling that person out. That's just usually how it works out.

And in the NFL, it's an 80% of just how the standings end up playing out is the power rankings. I would like to try. Maybe I'll call it because I think if you guys heard Wembeñana say ethical basketball, it's like become kind of a funny thing people use. I'd love to try ethical power rankings. That's what I'm going to try where we actually stick to the point of power rankings. The reason you do power rankings is because you're, you are not a reaction to standings.

You're just saying who you think the strongest teams are, regardless of what the standings are. So if you are doing it right now, and I want to, I want to try this. I'm going to put this together for some night. I'm going to try power rankings. I want to do it in a way of,

I'm not making the Seattle Seahawks the number one team because I don't think they're the number one team for next year. Not because, well, last year they won the Super Bowl. last year Kansas City missed the playoffs but uh you know how far do I want to put them up where I think they're going to be at the end of this year and then stick to those and that's the goal not just with the standings where oh well team one against another team I'm going to just move them up or down because of a win or a loss last week and I'm just going to overreact to that or the standings we're going to try ethical power rankings at this point what was the point of this oh I know

the NFC if you were power ranking them would be uh it's going to be a it's going to be a when I do it, and I'm going to put more work into it than I should. I'm going to put a lot of time. I'm going to think about it a lot. Maybe we'll do this later this week. Because unless the Vikings are going to sign anyone, we'll have some time to play around. Where would I put the Vikings? Where would I put the bears, the commanders, the, there's just a lot of teams that you have

questions about, almost every team, even the Packers, even the Lions. Like the lion did the lions do anything this offseason that made you go, okay, folks, watch out. The Lions Den is back. Like, I don't think so other than getting a offensive coordinator that's better, a center that's better, but he's not that much better. So when you're saying B plus teams, like, there's a lot of teams.

I mean, Dallas, they're all in, baby. Jerry Jones. Okay, well, clearly not because they didn't do much. And, you know, the commanders, are they impressive? this off, like, who really impressed? The Rams really impressed you. The Seahawks got worse. The 49ers, I think, also O'Digizua trade their defensive tackle from Dallas, but like Dallas trading away a good young player because they have older Kenny Clark. Anyway, the point is that there's a lot of teams that are pretty good. And it's sort of jockeying for who's going to be healthy,

who can chase down the Rams and the Seahawks and so forth. And I think that 70% of the NFACs, you could argue is both pretty good and also not great. That's the point of the rant about power rankings. We're going to try. I want to try it. I never do it. I always kind of scoff at it. I don't like ranking quarterbacks either.

I have an issue. I have an issue with ranking quarterbacks. You know what? Maybe you've heard this rant before. The issue with ranking quarterbacks is that they don't play in a vacuum. They play for teams. So you have to factor. It almost feels like people don't factor when they rank quarterbacks supporting

casts. So a couple years ago when AJ Brown is happy and arrives in Philadelphia, you should rank, and they have the best line in the league, you should rank Jalen Hertz high, but people would still rank him like 20th. And he would have top seven performance because he has a really good team around him. They don't play in a bubble. So I would do the power, maybe I'll do this, quarterback power rankings for who's going to play the best.

That'll be, it's, it's who's going to play the best power ranking. That's what it's going to be about. Anyway. uh, Brady says the pay the Packers are so fake. I mean, the Packers look like they are a 10 win team right now. That's what they look like. They lost their backup quarterback though. That could be relevant.

Jordan loves had some injuries and Malik Willis came in and played well. Brady says, I think the Vikings skip out on safety, even though that's their number one need. Dylan, uh, Thineman has been mocked to the Vikings by now every single person in the number one, because it makes a lot of sense. Number two, also draft analysis is a big game of follow the leader. So Daniel Jeremiah has got him taking Dylan Thineman. That sounds good to me. I'm going to do that as well.

But I actually do think it's a great fit for them. Is it a great team building idea? Because Jackson Smith and the Jigba, my friends, just raked in $42 million. If you draft a wide. receiver and the top guys are making 42 million and you draft someone really good following me here, then it's worth 30 something million over the top guy or the gap between. And what does it cost to get a good one in free agency? I mean, Jalen Naylor, we like Jalen Naylor a lot, but I mean, it costs like $13 million

a year to get a Jalen Naylor out there. You should be drafting them. You should be drafted them. So that's become my big thing is Kenyon Sadiq, I can kind of skirt the rules because I think he's awesome. But one of these receivers, Casey Concepcion as has my attention. I mean, I've got to look for which one I think would be the best fit for Kevin O'Connell. But I'm going to keep banging that drum. That's actually our goal.

I'm going to record tomorrow podcast with Chris Trappaso about a mock. we're going to try a mock draft where I take a wide receiver in the first round. We're going to see if that works because it just, it just keeps getting more ludicrous to acquire wide receivers. Token Tomo says just because hitman didn't announce his retirement with Ham and Thielen doesn't mean he's coming back. Thelan and Ham have a special story, not saying Hitman couldn't have retired with them, but it's different.

Yeah, I mean, he's going to do it on his own time. I've always said that it's just going to. he's just, I don't know what he's going to do. He would be the guy to just not say anything and he just doesn't arrive ever and then he's retired. And like, I don't know. I would, I'd like it for Vikings fans if there was a big ceremony for Harrison Smith and he could give a big speech and everything else.

I'd like that for us too. I mean, you want to hear from him and it would be great for him to express his gratitude to Vikings fans, I know from these last couple years listening to him talk how much he cares about the fan base and how much he cares about the organization and his teammates and his coaches. It's a really deep thing for him. And it would be great if he retires to have all of that stuff. You know, this is a different level of a player. I mean, this is an all-time player that spent his entire career here. You just don't get that very often ever anywhere in any sport these days. But even in the past.

It was hard to find all-time great players, even in the 90s, in the early 2000s, who spent their whole career with one team. So Ed Reed was a Texan at one point. So if he gets that opportunity to retire as a Minnesota Viking, give a speech that's memorable, that kind of thing, have the celebration, a whole week of articles and podcasts and everything else about Harrison Smith, that would be great. I don't know if he wants it. I don't know if he'll do things that way or if we'll just get to all.

August to be like, so Harry's not showing up, I guess. I mean, sometimes guys hold out just to see, T.Y. Hilton announced his retirement. I was like, T.Y. Hilton? I mean, I don't think the Vikings and Harrison Smith would do it that way. I think they're going to, you know, they would want. They've had retirement ceremonies for like Kyle Rudolph and Anthony Barr. I think they, I think they care about them. I think they really like them. And I don't think they would let him just sort of disappear into the night, but it would be It would be kind of funny if we spent all offseason going like, hey, where? So is he, is you're tired or what's the deal here?

And then we just never hear anything from him. The Fandual question of the day, I didn't say it earlier. I kind of said it without calling it the Fandual question of the day. So let me say it now is the Vikings are creeping up. Plus 550 is where they are in to win the NFC North. Do you think that by the end of the offseason, they'll say, still be in fourth place? Or do you think that once the world gets a sense for Kyler Murray through training camp

and so forth, that the Vikings odds will creep up? Or what could they do to make those odds creep up as they are now steadily improving, it seems? Brady says drafting a wide receiver or Sadiq is boring. Why is that boring? Neil, thank you for the kind words. How, why is, I would think that drafting Kenyon Sadiq would be super exciting. Have you seen the highlights of him jumping over people?

Should look those up. I think a skill player is always very exciting. Maybe they would just be because, I mean, is a safety that exciting? I'm not against just taking the best player with the best fit. But in terms of excitement, I always think a skill player, okay, the most exciting draft pick is Jeremiah Love. I think we all know that. Big trade up, superstar running back. I don't know.

Next Adrian Peterson or whatever. you know, that kind of, it would be big hype. They haven't drafted a running back this high since Peterson, et cetera, et cetera. He's crazy numbers at the combine, crazy, average seven yards of carry in college, all this. Okay, yeah, that's the most exciting. If you could be the most bold and make the big trade up, okay, what's the second most exciting? I don't know, in this draft? I mean, it's not a safety.

It's, I think it is Kenyon Sadiq because that's the guy you could see being one of the best players at his position in the NFL. and a really dangerous weapon into the future. Wide receiver, you know, this receiver class doesn't have a ton of super flashy guys. It reminds me of the year where Addison and Zay Flowers and actually Smith the Jigba, who has not talked about as being that exciting, but it turns out route running is better than other skills and is pretty important. So he was not blowing anybody's socks off either. And a lot of those receivers turned out to be pretty darned.

good. Even Quentin Johnston has had his moments with the Chargers. Is that Janice? Janice or Janice? Assuming Kyler has a 2024-like season and the Miami game comes up in the second half of the season, do you rest him to have a look at JJ? Oh, so you mean Miami is going to be so bad that you would try to get a look at J.J. McCarthy? Well, we're getting a little ahead of ourselves there, Janice.

But if, I mean, what are the odds that if McCarthy was QB2, that he would not play a single snap? I mean, the odds are pretty good that at some point Murray's going to have an injury, get banged up, or even that you get to the end of the season, and it could go either way, right? Like, you could be a 10-win team. The Vikings were a 10-win team in 2019 and rest of their stuff. starters in the last game of the season. And I think it helped them in the playoffs because they just had their playoff position settled.

Even the Rams when they played the Vikings in that memorable day in Glendale, which I was so thrilled to travel all the way there for that football game, they rested their starters and they didn't even care who they ended up playing. So there's a scenario where you play McCarthy then. There's a scenario where Murray gets banged up in the middle of the season. season you play them. There's also a scenario where it just goes bad, where, you know, Murray's not that great and the team has a bunch of one score losses, which, you know, don't count, according

to some people, one score wins or, well, the losses, actually, no one ever brings those up. They only bring up the one score wins, which is weird because someone also lost by one score, but if you win a bunch of one score games, it doesn't count. anyway, there's a better way to do it to study the one score games. It's just no one ever does it that way. So not going to worry about it. But the point being, like, let's say you start four and eight and you lose six one score

games and you're pretty much out of the playoffs. You might as well just turn to J.J. McCarthy. I think that the odds that if McCarthy is QB2, that he gets in the game and plays are fairly high, even though Kyler is the starting quarterback. 86 Chrysler, looking at other teams in the division, how big of an impact you think the lions losing Anzolone and Decker have on their chances. Seems like no one's taking that into account. I think Decker and Anzlo, well, Anzolone has been good for a long time.

So I think he's still a quality player and that could hurt them for sure. Decker less so. The last couple of years I've thought that's a below average left tackle. He's just not playing like Taylor Decker did in. years past. And even, even at his best, I thought he was just okay. I never thought he was a big star, but recently he's drifted off these last couple years. He hasn't been healthy. I don't think that changes much, but Anceloni could a little bit for them. Their defense, you know, they're losing DJ Reeder. They're keeping the same defensive coordinator who at the beginning

of the season I was impressed with, but as it went on, it seemed like there wasn't much adjustment there. I just don't think they're a better team. I just don't see where are the Detroit Lions better. Subbing out David Montgomery for Isaiah Pacheco does nothing for me. They haven't added like weapons. They have Teddy as their backup quarterback. And that's, I mean, Teddy's still being in the league 10 years after the

knee thing is amazing. But I don't think that moves the needle in terms of, uh, your projection. They really haven't changed much. I think what they're arguing is that they didn't coach well last year, especially on the offensive side. And they did have some bad luck because they still put up really, really good numbers overall and had a good, I think they had the best point differential.

I could be wrong. I think they had the best point differential in the division. And they lost some tight games and they end up missing the playoffs. But is it the team they were three years ago? Absolutely not. Brent, KOC has had to play the quarterback three. twice during his tenure. How does that compare across the league? If you ever seen average teams QB3 usage in an average season?

So normally what happens is with teams like that that get to QB3, it normally is just because the season has completely gone off the rails. Where it was unusual for the Vikings in both of KOC's seasons is that they were competing for the playoffs late into the year and were forced to use their third quarterback. that's just not something you end up seeing a lot. Normally it's, okay, it's the Giants or something. And they're down to Tommy DeVito because whatever, or they're down to, you know, Tyrod Taylor because of whatever.

Brady Cook is playing because who cares, that kind of thing. The Browns last year, did they play, they played three quarterbacks. Yeah, they played Chaturre Sanders. They played Dylan Gabriel. They played Joe Flacco. That's normally how it goes. Cincinnati, I guess, would maybe be an example of a team that was at least in the race where Burrow gets hurt,

and then they had to play Browning, and then they had to play Flacco, and then back to Burrow. So it does happen sometimes, but normally it's a little bit out of, all right, you started got hurt, your season has gone off the rails, you're just trying something else, which was kind of the case with Jaron Hall,

where, and even Nick Mullins, but Jaron Hall started because the season had kind of gone off the rails and they were just trying Jaron Hall. And that did not work out, very well. But it doesn't happen a lot that you get down to QB3 playing this much. You had three games for Brosmer. I guess I have to look it up. I don't have data on it. But I mean, there are in terms of guys who start a game, there's usually about 70 quarterbacks a year that start a game around the NFL. It's just, I think with the Vikings having Kurt go out for the season,

tear the Achilles, and then your backup is actually injured. So you have to go. go to trading for a Josh Dobbs. That's pretty unique. That doesn't happen that much. Or getting down to your UDFA in a game where you're trying to really win it in Seattle. Doesn't happen that much. That has been to pretty bad luck. But COC and not letting that happen again.

That's why, you know, the people who want to trade McCarthy. Well, not unless they're getting somebody else who they could actually play. He is not in a season where his, you know, it could be on the line if it went bad enough. he is not letting a third string quarterback ruin his career. Super Rod trading down from 18 is probably the best thing they could do for the draft, but it takes two to tango. That is a good point. Super Rod.

I think it's clear every time I have done a draft sim that trading down makes a lot of sense. What I usually end up with is about four to five players that you'd be pretty happy with. Sadiq is one guy that usually gets into that 20 area. Thinaman McNeil Warren who we can't forget about it's a good prospect a couple of cornerbacks are off in there Colton hood is one that shows up a lot Caleb Banks sometimes makes it to the Vikings in my draft simulations but if you have four guys on the board see if you want to trade down because even if you don't get that much even if you get a third round draft pick to go with it well that's a top hundred that's better than nothing

and you're still getting someone that you wanted like they traded down and got Christian Derisaw at one point and what did they get? Did they pick up a third rounder for that? Maybe you get a scenario that's similar to that and just pick up something extra. Every spot you move down, though, your odds do get worse. But if you were going to pick someone at 18 anyway and you think, well, looking at the needs of another team or their strategy, that player could still get to us, well, go for it.

So I'm in total agreement with you. I think that trading down does make the most sense by far. Stephen, what's your thought on DeAndre Hopkins? I talked about this a little bit in yesterday's episode about Hopkins after his TMZ interview. How do you get to be that person? Like, is there a sign-up sheet? Hey, I'm at the airport a lot.

Can I just like stick a phone in celebrities' faces and ask them random questions? Okay. Here's how much you get paid for that? How much you get paid for three minutes of DeAndre Hopkins? It can't be great, right? Is it based on clicks? I have so many questions. Anyway, my thought on DeAndre Hopkins is this.

The price for receivers that have been around the block this year, Christian Kirk got like six, I think Hollywood Brown got like 10, has been in that ballpark now. You can, you know, you can manipulate that number a little bit. Like, oh, yes, $10 million. If you catch those 47 passes, 10 million dollars. So you can manipulate those numbers. numbers. Let's say it's even five. I think that's what Hopkins got last year. I mean, of course,

that's worth it for somebody who has chemistry with Kyler Murray could help him with the transition to a new franchise. I mean, you know, there's a there was a lot of people who thought that they knew way more than they knew. shocking, right? In America thought they knew way more than they did about Kyler Murray. And then, you know, Hopkins comes out, the number one wide receiver and says, Kyler's like family to me. It's like, I'm extremely close with Kyler. and like, okay, well, I guess if he was a bad teammate, DeAndre Hopkins didn't notice. I mean, I don't know. Trying to pick apart whether someone was a good teammate, coachable, all those things, it's very hard.

Because there's so many different perspectives and so many different people you work with. And anyway, that stuck out to me that they're really close. Hopkins can still play a little. And all you need at this moment is a little. you're going to run two tight ends a lot. You know, they should get a fullback or I will quit if they don't. They should get a fullback. But you're going to run two tight ends a lot, maybe even three tight ends,

depending on if they like Ben Urosix development or Gavin Bartholome, who's going to come back from an injury. And if DeAndre Hopkins plays 40% of snaps, catches 25 passes, two or three touchdowns, has a couple of contested catches and helps Kyler Murray, that's worth five to ten million dollars where do they get it though i mean they are really dealing with a shoestring budget here they don't have a lot of money to work with and where is dionre hopkins really is it over for him it didn't look like it last year but you know sometimes when guys

get to this point then there isn't much left also uh obj wants to play still is there something there didn't really look like it the last time there's sometimes a benefit to grabbing the guy at the very end of his career. But if he's done, then it usually looks bad. So I'm generally for the idea at a very cheap price of D'Andre Hopkins, but it can't be the only answer. There has to be a draft pick there. There has to be some belief in Ty Felton and his development.

It can't just be my only answer is DeAndre Hopkins for QB3. But overall, I mean, I don't mind it. Devin, I like signing Elijah Moore to compete a QB, wide receiver. for three. I don't, I don't mind some rolls of the dice. I think I made a face there. I don't mind rolls of the dice, but I don't love rolls of the dice as being the answer. That to me is what Elijah Moore is, okay, this guy at one point was thought of pretty highly, has caught some passes in his career, but is he really someone you're going to be able to trust? I mean, that's what I like about DeAndre Hopkins is that you can trust him to be

what you need him to be at that position. Does he want to, does he want to block, though? I'm guessing maybe not. It certainly doesn't bring the deep threat, the explosiveness. I mean, that might be a consideration too. Why receiver three has been a clear-out position a lot. That's more of a Thai Felton of, hey, scare the other team into their safety paying attention to you because of your speed. That's been a lot of what that job is.

Could you change that? Maybe for DeAndre Hopkins and also for Kyler Murray, where maybe you're not running quite as many of those giant deep ball type of looks. DLM, Anzolone wasn't the same last year. Decker moved to the right side. Yeah, Decker is completely, completely cooked, but I agree Anzolone didn't quite have the same juice last year. I don't think losing those two guys changes where they were last year,

but they didn't improve, though. They didn't get other, I mean, Cade Mays is a starting center, but they didn't get, hey, this guy, this guy, this guy is going to make them a lot better. and hey look at that their drafting hasn't been as good lately i can't imagine why could it be less draft capital could it be not as high a picks funny how that works uh mike says last year i was over the moon excited about the season i put my trust in k oc and if he gave the green light on jj that was enough for me last year uh this year hope is all i have i guess it will just have to wait you were not the only one, Mike, I mean, I did have some skepticism on the decision and thought it was very

risky. But I remember saying that, look, I mean, if Kevin O'Connell has evaluated J.J. McCarthy and he's believing in this and he buys into it. And I know that there's the Florio report that O'Connell had nothing to do with the decision, which just, I mean, I believe there's someone who believes that is the best way I could put it, but I'm not one of those people who believes that because it just defies any sort of logic that, you know, O'Connell would be ignored in a decision about a quarterback after becoming the quarterback whisper and winning 14 games as the coach of the year, the idea that he would just be, oh, yeah, well, who cares what that guy in the back thinks, right? And what O'Connell did say was that, and also the guy who called them the

franchise quarterback and everything else. He seemed to be pretty high on the idea of J.J. McCarthy after drafting him and playing him for an entire training camp and everything else. Anyway, not the point. The point is that nobody gets this right every time. And what the Vikings have done is truly fall backward into a really good option for them. It's not the best quarterback in the league. But when we do that NFC comparison, you can nitpick it, hey, maybe this guy's a

little better or that guy's better or you could say yeah deck prescott's best he's definitely better at jared goff's best at jordan loves best yes those guys are better but at least you're in the discussion with what kailer murray has been and his ceiling is that's in the conversation with these other quarterbacks how did you do that how did you fall into for one million dollars so you retain the rookie advantage if they had to spend more than that on the quarterback position i then you're acts in people. But in terms of, like, trust and belief and everything else, nobody, nobody ever gets out with 100% accuracy of their decisions.

It just so happened that the Vikings bad one was unbelievably bad. And it completely blew up in their face. So, Mike says they easily could have finished 7 and 10 or worse. I was certain the defensive side would carry them last year. I mean, when you finish 28th or whatever. in a quarterback performance. That's what ends up happening on offense. A. Z. Bro says K1,

Kyler Murray, is used to playing in the hardest division in football. No defense in this division is as tough as what he's faced. Let's see. You know, I think you're probably right about that, actually, because, well, San Francisco wasn't that great last year or 2024 defensively. But the Rams and the Seahawks, and his toughest game did come against the Seahawks. He still made some plays in that game, but that's, if you're wondering, like, oh, his stats in those five games weren't that great. Well, one of the reasons is because of the Seahawks, of which they destroyed everyone all the way to Drake.

Everyone except for Matthew Stafford. We know how nasty the Rams defense is. And it's been that way for a couple years. Seattle's defense was really good in 24. The Rams was great in 24, as we saw. So yeah, I actually think that that's a pretty fair point. And even San Francisco was well coached. They had Robert Sala.

And when Murray played them last year, they had Nick Bosa healthy. Yeah, I mean, I think it's a fair point. I don't see the Packers with Micah Parsons are different, but I don't see them as being a number one type defense or top five. Detroit is very beatable on defense. And Chicago has had a lot of overhaul. And they also intercepted everything last year. so they won't do that again.

I, yeah, I agree with you. I think if you go through every circumstance with Kyler Murray, the coaching is better, the defense, he's never had a top 10 defense, it's better. The blocking in 2024 for Arizona was pretty good. I think that the Vikings can equal that. He's only had DeAndre Hopkins and even Hopkins is not Justin Jefferson. The run games have been pretty meh. This run game might be meh also, but those,

other things. He's never had a coach of the year. He has never had just a Jefferson. He's probably his best receiver other than Hopkins doesn't even come close to Jordan Addison. It's had a good tight end. He's got a good tight end here if he's used. I think it's a much better team than he's ever had. 2021 is the only one that has a case as being similar. And then the division has been really, really tough. You've got McVeigh in the division. You've got two of the top five coaches in the league in that division. I'm not sure that's true for the NFC. even though it is a well-coached. Well, Ben Johnson.

No, it's another well-coached division. I don't think it's, I don't think it's way, way easier, but I think those two defenses of Seattle and the Rams, that is a good point about the last couple years. Fair enough. Jake, I'm a huge Eli Heidenreich fan. I feel like his PFF numbers were amazing. His 4-4-40 at the Combine says he has the athleticism

to be somebody as an offensive weapon. Thoughts on as a new C-J. Well, I don't think Iden Reich's a fullback. I actually think he would be like a Jarius right. He's got great hands. Yeah, I've actually watched two or three Hydenreich games. Was it Navy?

Just the Army Navy game. And then there was one other game I watched of him. And he just dominated. He looked like, you know, they're going to naturally compare, you know, he looked like Christian McCaffrey. He looked on the college stage. He looked like freaking Marshall Fulk. He was everywhere in those games.

I think is a slot wide, you know who I think he could be? He could be David Palmer. It could be like a slot wide receiver, punt return. I like him. I honestly like him. I'll be interested to see what happens. But guys like that who have just bawled out and meet the thresholds have often turned out to be pretty good. Natural ball catchers.

It's draft season. Natural ball catchers like Cooper Cup have tended to kind of work. So I like him as sort of a slot guy that can run the football. Fifth round, sixth round, I would do that.