Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Some Vikings rookies are put on blast already and the winners and losers of Vikings minicamp

Episode Date: June 17, 2021

Matthew Coller and Sam Ekstrom start the show with three notable comments Mike Zimmer made in an interview with KFAN about rookies Kellen Mond, Ihmir Smith-Marsette and Wyatt Davis. What does it say about where each player stands coming out of minicamp? Plus the winners and losers of minicamp/OTAs are highlighted by Mike Zimmer, Kirk Cousins and Justin Jefferson. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to another post mini camp practice purple insider podcast presented by scout logistics Matthew Collar here along with Sam extra. And I was just making faces because Sam, you listened to an interview with Mike Zimmer that he did with Paul Allen that had some kind of juicy things that Mike Zimmer said, and boy, he had a lot to say today. And we are going to unfortunately have to talk about the vaccination part of this because Zimmer had some very interesting comments there. But we'll save that for a little later. Why don't you run through the three interesting things you told me that Mike Zimmer said, and then I will react to them.

So go ahead. OK, so Zimmer talked to us for a good 15, 20 minutes, and he had some good things to say to us too. Get him in a little one-on-one situation though, with Paul Allen, you know, voice of the Vikings. He occasionally will say some very honest things. And there were three moments of Zimmer honesty that caught my ear. So number one, Zimmer gets teed up for a softball question about Kellen Mond, an opportunity to talk up the rookie quarterback and, you know, pump his tires a little bit. Zimmer says something along the lines of, ah, well, Kellen Mond needs a lot more work. Kellen Mond, and then he mentioned his accuracy. And he said that the mental part of his game, like in the classroom, is going pretty well.

But I think this matches the eye test. The stuff on the field has not been stellar from what we've seen. And granted, he's working with the threes, but a lot of checkdowns, some inaccurate throws, a throwing motion that doesn't look the most confident in the world. So that's Zimmer on Mond.

Not exactly stoking the fire of a QB controversy. Okay. So I think that it is interesting that he would bring this up. It also is on par though, with Mike Zimmer being honest about rookies. This is where, so I've got another example to use of this with Mike Zimmer. When I talk about how you don't necessarily want to fire Mike Zimmer unless you have to, because he's a professional coach and he knows how to manage a professional football team. This is one of the places it starts every year. He will just call out whatever rookie he wants because whatever, man, what the heck have you done?

And he did this with the wide receivers a couple of years ago where he said, how about you guys learn how to line up? Could you please? And he went out of his way to say these rookie receivers have no idea what they're doing and they need to figure it out. And I think that that is it's a little bit old school compared to some coaches who will not say anything about anybody. There are coaches like that, but I also think that

it's a thing that probably goes over pretty well with veteran players of like, yeah, call out those guys, you know, and, and let's not give them the respect of talking around whatever issue they might be having, because again, what have you done? Uh, I think Zimmer's comments match up exactly with what we've seen from Kellen Mon. I have no doubt that he knows football and that he can go into a classroom and apply things that he learned from Jimbo Fisher, who runs a pro style offense. But when we've watched him try to play quarterback, we haven't seen much. Today was actually the first time where we saw him like throw a touchdown and look competent on a few plays in a row. And, you was actually the first time where we saw him like throw a touchdown and look

competent on a few plays in a row. And, you know, I guess I just don't know how much to make of that because as we were talking about a little yesterday, I just don't care about Kellen Mond at this point. Like you're going to have to make me care about you. And I think that that's what Mike Zimmer is saying in a way like Kellen, you're going to have to make me care about you by throwing more accurately, being able to apply what you learn in the classroom. And we'll see how this goes. I do not think it's a particularly good sign for Kellen Mond, though. And the Browning bus adds, you know, maybe another passenger.

Mike Zimmer, here we go onto the Browning bus, though. Nate Stanley did get a few more reps today. So that's that's interesting. Nugget number Number one, I think matches up very much with reality. Go onto the second one. Yeah. The theme of Zimmer's comments today, basically just throwing rookies under the Browning bus. Um, if, if that's the term we're going to use, uh, so number two, he, and you mentioned, um, the receivers, you know, throwing the rookie receivers under the bus two years ago. So earlier today, for some context, he was asked by Arif Hasan, friend of the show, you know, who's in the lead for the wide receiver three battle? And of course, Zimmer lists off a handful of guys, but some names you wouldn't expect.

Blake Prohl, the UDFA, KJ Osborne, my guy. You were beaming. Who has been standing out every day that I've seen. He got a mention. Dan Chisna got a mention. The special teams only UDFA from last year. And then he mentioned BB as well. The key omission, Amir Smith-Marset, did not get a lick of attention from Zimmer in the response.

So then on Paul Allen's show, again, sets him up to compliment Amir Smith-Marset and says something along the lines of, yeah, I can see that Amir Smith-Marset has been, you know, hanging on Adam Thielen's every word and spending a lot of time with him like Jefferson last year. And then Zimmer's response, paraphrased a bit, says, well, he likes to talk. And I told him the other day he's got to start backing up all this trash that he's talking which again sounds like a coach who's saying hey you need to know your place man I mean the Vikings have had a litany of kind of fifth round flop receivers post Stefan Diggs they hit on Diggs but then they missed on Rodney Adams. KJ Osborne was a

bust last year. Stacey Coley wasn't in the fifth round, but he was kind of in that range. Hasn't been good. And Amir Smith-Marset, to my eye, has done nothing in OTAs or minicamp except create an interception on a rare good throw from Kellen Mond. So again, it matches the eye test and I, I, I kind of like Zimmer's honesty about it. So I'm not going to make any judgments on Amir Smith, Marseille till he's in pads and actually doing stuff. Uh, that's, that's just like my rule. Like we could talk about, you know, they did this or they did that, or like KJ Osborne has made some good plays, but not full of judgments until we get to that point. However, I would say that self-awareness is a hell of a drug in football. And when you are a fifth round pick and the head coach is saying you're talking too much,

that might be something you want to listen to. You want to listen to that very closely. And I guess I look at it as on draft day, we always hear about how great every single guy is and fans get excited and they should, because the draft is super exciting. It's like our Superbowl for, for, for us, even, even purple insider where week one and the draft are the two most exciting days of the year for us. And then, you know, if there's playoff games, of course, but at the same time, day three draft picks, there's a reason your day three draft pick, you know, right. So I guess I'm always hesitant to anoint any of those guys, wide receiver, read depth, pass pressure, whatever, whatever next playmaker they have for this exact reason because if smith marsette seems to think that he's just going to take over you know as some star on this team like that is not happening dude it's just not like best case scenario is you're a special teamer who can occasionally get in a football game and maybe

possibly make a play um but this is also everyone always always gets so upset. Why do they like Chad Beebe? Why do they like Chad Beebe? Guy just does his job, right? And I think that's one of the reasons that they like him. So this would be something, and I love this comment because it's very interesting insight into kind of what's going on out there with him specifically and what he's got to learn if he's going to actually make it. So I'm always fascinated by these types of things. You know, like learn to line up right first, catch a ball in OTAs that makes anybody excited about you. KJ Osborne's got five or six since we've been out there. And as far as I could tell, Amir Smith-Marset has zero. So interesting stuff though. Interesting that Mike Zimmer would kind of go in on them.

Yeah. Does it feel to you though, a little bit like the Vikings are going to do the same thing as last year and keep like seven receivers and then three of them won't even see the field? Yes. Yes, it does. I don't think BC Johnson's going anywhere. I am certain that Chad BB is not going anywhere. And then you're probably not cutting the last two draft picks that you have from the fifth rounders, unless somebody like Blake Proll or Wap Fillier, these guys come in and say, no, I'm going to demand this job. And we're nowhere near knowing if that's going to happen or not. I think BC Johnson didn't emerge as wide receiver three, two years ago until like what the final two weeks of camp, maybe

BC Johnson was like among the receivers that got called out that year. Yep. He might've been like, and I think you've, you put it this way. He might've been like 89th of 90, like in players that you thought were relevant. He had a pretty bad OTAs. He was dropping a lot of balls. And then, you know, he started kind of coming into his own in preseason and it appeared like he knew what he was doing. And I think the team appreciated his precision and that earned him a look. So sometimes we can get enamored a little bit by like caught balls and dropped balls when the real evaluation is kind of happening with X's and O's. What do they see when they turn the film back on and Zimmer sits at his ranch in front of the fire and like,

it's watches the film back on his iPad and makes the evaluations. I think that that might end up holding more weight in the hot tub, as we learned last year. And he's talking about Adam visual that I did not need. Um, but Adam Thielen talked the other day and seemed to be talking around something. And I can't say for sure this is it, but I thought it was interesting when he said, you know, Jefferson, you know, he's always learning and maybe some other guys need to learn from him when it comes to that.

And other guys think they made it. It's like, hmm, okay, that stuck out to me. I wonder who's talking about it. Maybe we got our answer. So what's the third thing? Yeah, so Zimmer critique number three. This was maybe a little gentler of a critique, but Wyatt Davis was brought up, another rookie. Spent the entire offseason with the twos at right guard. Zimmer starts off by saying he's got to lose some weight which is interesting because Zimmer talked about getting a beefier offensive line getting a bigger offensive line so if he wanted a bigger offensive line but still wants Davis to cut some weight um what's the deal with What now, caller? Now, OK, he also told us Zimmer in his interview with us that he wants pass protection on the interior to be a huge improvement this year and block, quote, inside out for Kirk Cousins.

And let me just this is a quick diversion to another area here. But this is why we critique to another area here, but this is why we critique because he does too, right? So when we're always looking for things that he could be improving, the team wants to change when we have talked about that interior pressure that has just ruined cousins at times that this is why we talk about it because Zimmer eventually came to the same exact conclusion that the interior pressure is a problem. And I wonder how much Ezra Cleveland playing guard has to do with that. A guy who is a good pass protector in college is big. He's not like Brian O'Neill where he was on.

So maybe that's part of it. We want this pass protector to be on the inside because that's actually what seems to derail cousins more than pressure from the outside which is unusual uh in the nfl but i think that that's who he is and he also mentioned the clean pocket stuff which everyone knows by now kirk has very good clean pocket statistics so that sounded to me like zimmer really getting it like really having this epiphany if we block up the middle like he's going to be better. Now, that being said, Wyatt Davis still practicing with the second team. Christian Derrissaw was just mixing in with the second team today. I mean, look, this is the thing when you draft offensive linemen and you hope that in year one, they're just the guy. We don't know if they're the guy until they can prove they can actually play. So I don't know if his comment increases my chances. And I guess I'll ask you

what you'd put the chances at that Wyatt Davis and Christian Derrissaw are not starting in week one, because I can tell you who doesn't care what you think about this, Sam, that is Mike Zimmer does not care about what you think about when, when it comes to this or any other fans, we know this, that he's not going to say, well, the fans want the rookies to start. So I guess I'll start him. He's going to start who he thinks is going to play the best. So what, like, does this change your odds a little of both of those guys starting week one? So if it's a parlay, like if I need both of them to start week one to to win the bet I'm I put the odds at like five to one or ten to one like I don't I don't think it's that likely like at this point and I could be wrong but we didn't see any kind of of inkling that they are going to be given this this

job and you know the fact that you know Derisaz coming off a little injury, he didn't get as much time in OTAs and Davis needs to lose weight and he's been with the twos. I'm starting to think that like the odds are trending the wrong direction if you want the rookies in the mix. And maybe the team wants it that way. Like maybe they sort of in the back of their mind envision them taking over at the midway point which has been kind of their mo at other positions and it was with brian o'neill um and it was with justin jefferson but i don't know if that's the right method you know the one thing that we didn't see really at many positions um in in ota's minicamp seeing different combinations of guys like the,

I think that people assume that, Oh, they've got these off season practices again, they can mix and match and see different things. Didn't see much of that. I mean, the third linebacker spot. Yeah. We saw some different bodies coming in, but the O line was the same. Cornerback kind of had a rotation by default because a bunch of guys were hurt, but we didn't see a lot at safety we didn't see a lot at receiver um it they kind of just rolled with the people like the the veterans or the the incumbents they didn't they didn't have a lot of different looks which

seems to me like a little bit of a missed opportunity yeah if you're going to do it this is time to do it and even Harrison Smith was talking about Zimmer experimenting every year during this time with different schematic stuff but they didn't do that at all when it came to roster stuff and who's starting where and maybe at this point in the offseason it's not as important to them as it is us maybe that it's like oh well he's with the second team that's fine it doesn't really mean. He's just getting used to stuff. And he was asked, Zimmer was asked a question about acclimating from college to the NFL. And he said, well, every position is really hard to acclimate from college to the NFL. So you expect the guys to get their feet wet here, come to camp

ready to be NFL players and not act like rookies at that point. But right now you can say Wyatt Davis, uh, get yourself in a little better shape and figure out how to do some things technically before you're going to take, um, Dakota Dozier's job. But I still, I, I would be surprised my meter isn't going up with this, uh, comment. I would be surprised if the two rookies are not starting week one. That said, Zimmer in the past has slow played maybe more than he even should with some of these rookies. So I guess it could go either way. I'm leaning toward they play, but knowing his history of not playing rookies right away that often very possible if he's not happy with Wyatt Davis's

shape. And this is a small thing. It just stuck to my eye a little bit though. After you watch everybody do the same drills all the time, you sort of get down how it should look or how quick it should look. I thought Davis out of his stance, you know, taking those first couple of steps on a few of the drills, he did look a step slower than the quicker guys, which is natural because they weigh 30, 40 pounds left less, but if it's going to matter to the run game, it's going to matter to them. Um, so do you have a follow-up comment on that or do you want me to move along? Um, I guess my follow-up would be, I think the Vikings and the Vikings fans would rather have Davis starting week one because of

the player that's behind him or in front of him, I guess. I agree to Dozier. You'd rather have Rashad Hill for a few games than Dozier for a few games. But Davis being a little lower pick might be the one who's further away from being that that guy. So I don't know how you feel about that, but that's kind of an interesting, you know, either or. No, strong agree that if you were giving Vikings fans the choice, would they rather have Davis or Derrissaw start right away? They've seen Rashad Hill. They know he can play.

They've also seen Dakota Dozier. They know he can't play. So I, I agree with you there. Uh, all right, here's what I want to play for now. And I'll try to make up maybe a jingle for it or something on the fly. Uh, the winners of mini camp, um the fly uh the winners of minicamp um who are the winners of minicamp do do do do minicamp we can include the otas let's talk about who won otas um so in we can include losers as well i just couldn't fit it in the song i'll do a song for

the losers when the time comes okay okay sounds good. Sounds good. So let's talk about the winners. Uh, I'm going to just start Mike Zimmer, Mike Zimmer one, he won. I mean, he got all his defensive players. Sheldon freaking Richardson is here. Uh, Rashad Breland is here. There's all veterans. I mean, he talking to him today, he looked like a happy man. He's, he's having sit down conversations with Patrick Peterson and so forth. He seems like he's thrilled to have his defense back. He's a winner. Yeah, glowing, cheerful. Yeah, he's emanating this aura.

The 2017 aura is back on Zim. Think it through in your head, man. The defensive line 100% revamped from week one last year. And that includes Hunter returning, but completely new four, plus Richardson as the fifth, which is not a bad thing. Cornerbacks, probably completely revamped, provided, I guess, that if Breland were the starter and Dancer came off the bench, that would be three for three new cornerbacks. You've got one new safety. So potentially and Zimmer actually brought this up on the radio, which tells me that he is considering Breland to start.

He said they could have eight new starters on defense with Kendricks, Barr and Smith being the returners from week one last year, that that's a drastic change. And the majority of those new faces are veterans who have kind of proven that they can play in this league. So it's going to look, it's going to look way different. I think they signed Breland to start. I think that they looked at Cam Dantzler and said, well, first, you're not staying healthy is a problem. But also, he had a couple of good games and they boosted up that PFF grade.

But what we know about PFF grades in terms of corners is that they're all really small samples. And they probably have the biggest ups and downs of any position. Because if you have two great games or two terrible games, it can really move that number around. And I think on a play-to-play basis, you'd like to see him get more time as opposed to a veteran, more time to learn the position. I think he's still an interesting player, but I could see why you wouldn't want to rely on him versus Bashad Breeland, who has been good in his career. So that's my first winner. How about yours? Winner, I I think Justin Jefferson I mean he he looks like this is crazy to say he looks better in a practice setting this year than he did last year where I felt like there was some tentativeness

last year um and that's kind of why everyone agreed in week one. Like a lot of the reporting on Jefferson was, yeah, he doesn't quite look ready. Like BC Johnson earned this, which is crazy that we were saying that. And sometimes we're wrong, I guess. But he looks the part this year. And Mike Zimmer has kind of echoed that, that he just has like this different vibe about him and obviously more confidence. And he's made some great plays in camp, too. And so is Thielen. Thielen's always been a really good practice player.

So the one-two punch, man, it's real. It's real. And I think this passing game is going to be exciting. And I really want to see what Keenan McCardell's impact is like Adam Thielen had some good things to say about McCardell's presence the other day about how you you know sometimes you can get really caught up in in technique especially when you're a young receiver but McCardell has that like 16 year NFL career and a bunch of hands-on experience and he can teach you how to win when your technique gets altered, because you're going to get jammed. Like there's going to be

bodies in front of you that you have to get around. And he sort of is able to teach you that make do approach of how to beat a defensive back on the fly. And I think that could help get the most out of the younger guys out of the depth because and i i don't want to i'm not ripping on like drew petzing and andrew ginoco the last two receivers coaches i think they're good coaches and they've they're young they've climbed the ladder but they didn't like play receiver at even a college level um keenan mccardell is a pro bowler you know 800 catches so there is some street cred that he has and credibility that'll, I think, help Jefferson and Thielen and the young guys. Folks, if you are pumped up about how the Vikings did in the draft and now the schedule's out,

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B I R DI golf.com. Call 651-998-2200 today, and I'll see you there. I think that was a dog bark in the background. So consider your dog pun here in a minute. I'll respond to what you said. The comments on Justin Jefferson from other people have not sounded to me like lip service and they haven't looked to me like lip service when I've seen him out there. And I think of it a little bit.

I think of Justin Jefferson a lot like a basketball player. And I know that he was a really good basketball player where he is a find a way kind of guy to beat your man. Like he just has such a natural way of playing the game that Patrick Peterson on his podcast mentioned something about, you know, Jefferson kind of put a move on him that he hadn't even really seen before that he was sort of surprised and said, well, what was that? Well, what did you just do there? Um, which for someone like Patrick Peterson, who's seen many receivers, um, you know, I, I think that's really saying something. And the other part of it too, is I remember saying this maybe early on last year after Justin Jefferson emerged. And we were

talking about I think Jeremiah Searles and I were talking about like, Oh, does this prove that, you know, he's, he's a big time player now. And he talked about how his favorite NBA player was LeBron James, which may seem sort of like trivial or who cares, but I felt like the way he talked was, I want to be great. Like I w I want to chase greatness. And that's what we've heard from him. And that's what we've heard from other people about him. Like Adam Thielen saying the other day that, I mean, he is putting in more work on the details. You establish yourself as a good player, but then it gets harder. So he knows that it's going to get harder. And I just think that Jefferson's personality

plays such a huge role in why he's been so successful so far. So I agree with you that everything you wanted to hear about year two, not like, oh, well, and we know this, there would be some in-between the line stuff if he wasn't, but really hearing specifics on what he's doing to make sure that he can take on the extra attention that's coming along. Yeah, and maybe it's an optical illusion, but he seems like a hair faster, too. He's running like a greyhound, like Nora, your pup.

There's the dog pun. He has been beating – wow wow you look really skeptical at it wasn't really a pun it was just it was more of a like a metaphor it was an illusion yeah um which has merit come on don't rip my don't rip my i i brought your dog into the equation you love your dog he'll never be as fast as her i can tell you that that's probably true but he does look fast especially on like, I've seen some, some slants where he just breaks people down, including Peterson. Um, those two, here's a question for you. Is it like cut and dried? No doubt about it. That Jefferson draws

the number one assignment from every team. Yep, it is. And, uh adam phelan is very mccardle-ish in the way that he i mean he's benefited his whole career from this that we saw when patrick peterson played against the vikings he guarded stefan diggs a lot of the time uh players like that would take on stefan diggs they would roll coverage that way and the thing is that if you're not giving adam phelan the proper attention he is just going to rip you apart and And he has for many years, he's become a very good receiver in part. But last year when he was asked to be the number one at times, and when Diggs would get hurt, it wasn't quite the same as we saw the one game when Thielen was out that he was just Jefferson was dominant against the Carolina Panthers. So I think he is clearly wide receiver one, but if your wide receiver two is of the level of Keenan McArdle, which I think is a good comp for Adam Thielen, you're in great shape. It's just that as we obsess over wide receiver three is Chad BB. Okay.

So let's see another winner of the mini camp. I'm going to say is no, I won't say I won't go Browning bus. I'm not going to drive everyone insane with this. I'm just going to, I'll just, I'll just creep by and say Browning bus. Cause like he is a winner of this coming out of it as the number two quarterback, but we've talked about that already. Um, I'm, I'm just going to say Kirk cousins is a winner of this. He hasn't looked great and he hasn't like thrown a ton of touchdowns, but it's just been so clear that Kirk Cousins is the number one quarterback. He's the guy. He's got his offense back. He's got his playmakers back. He's got Jefferson. He's got

offensive linemen that can emerge here. And he's got an offensive coordinator with the same last name as his offensive coordinator the year before and so i feel like there was after the draft this vibe of like oh boy it's gonna be a fascinating offseason for cousins is he gonna get you know pressured by mond and he established very quickly and easily in this mini camp oh cal and mond is nowhere close to Kirk Cousins and he is the guy so I'm gonna I'm gonna go obvious with the head coach and quarterback but I'll say they're both winners plus defense is better and you mentioned this the other day maybe some starting positions that won't be at the 25 yard line for next year so even just getting a

better defense makes Kirk Cousins a winner also. Yeah, I'll agree with that. I do, and I probably said this the other day too, I do worry a little bit about the offensive line that is still in front of him, but I guess that's nothing new. Like he's had a bad offensive line, you know, before and had, you know, in 2019 found a way to win 10 games, even with some, some pretty poor blocking. I, I think that weapons wise, he's in really good shape. Um, I, I'm curious to know like how the Vikings will deploy their running backs this year, whether Dalvin cook is going to get the same workload. Um, I'm curious how they deploy their wide receiver three, if it's going to

be like a Chad BB level amount amount of snaps or if somebody earns more than that. But like all in all, yes, I think the continuity will serve him well. And it's hard to get a straight answer from people because depending how you frame the question, some people will say, yep, it's the same system with Clint. And then if you frame it a different way, people will say, oh, yeah, I mean, Clint is making it his own. He's putting these wrinkles in and we don't really ever know until week one, what the offense is going to look like. That's when the truth comes out. So I don't think we can say for sure. My, I tend to believe it's going to look pretty much the exact same. Um, but Hey, September 12th, that's kind of the date that we'll find out.

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You know, KJ Osborne, he should be my guy. He went to University of Buffalo, you know. Yes, yes. And then Miami after that, right? Yeah, yep, for just one year. Yeah, but agree with you there. Can I just tack on one rookie who I think is a winner just by proxy of, like, getting some time with the twos would be Cam Bynum. I think there's another way.

Yeah, I agree. He's probably been like the most impressive rookie in terms of outperforming his draft position, I guess, or getting kind of moved up the ladder. And seems like he's kind of safety number three or safety number four. I think he's got a pretty secure spot on the roster. Okay. So you got a song secure spot on the roster okay so uh losers you you got a song you want to make up a song um what happens if you struggle at otas and minicamp you're a loser and you're to get ripped by purple insider. Yeah.

You know, last year you and I did a show in which we talked about questions regarding Holton Hill. And we said, man, you know, it could go either way with Holton Hill. Like he could emerge or he could just be cut. Like, you know, he could look terrible. And Jaleel Johnson said, these guys don't know blank. And I mean, we did, we did know blank, but we turned out to be right with the potential that Holton Hill could eventually get cut. But I just thought it was funny of like the losers of last year's. It wasn't even really mini camp yet because there wasn't one, but it was sort of like lead up to training camp.

The losers were Jaleel Johnson for being really wrong about that. So that was the first one that came to mind. I'll try for a better song because you might actually be tone deaf. Let's see. Oh, I definitely am. You're a loser of mini camp. You were bad at OTAs.

A little falsetto there. Okay. So can we get auto-tune on that like can you edit that in yeah I mean I actually do know how yes but I'm not going to take the time so who do we who yeah it is a bummer who do we think uh took an L here in minicamp um like all the defensive tackles that aren't Tomlinson Pierce or Richardson I mean I don't I don't get the sense that um they had a lot of confidence in that group I certainly I certainly didn't um and I think that's kind of reflected in the acquisition but I don't know if Jalen Holmes is going to make this roster um Armand Watts I get you know James acquisition but i don't know if jalen holmes is going to make this roster um armin watts i get you know james lynch i i don't i don't know who you would have had like reliably backing up your two starters at defensive tackle so i think that's that's tough for them and then

sort of in that same vein um like dansler i mean dans mean Dantzler doesn't do a thing in OTAs or minicamp must be an injury of some kind maybe right leg because he had a wrap on it and they bring in a guy who's going to vie for his spot um rough time for the uh former third round pick what I was going to say is middle round drafting is the loser of otas because this team has drafted repeatedly guys that they just told us oh we're we love this guy as a project and we're going to do this to him and he's going to move to this position and so forth among these defensive linemen and they all like you said they just took big owls like jay jaylen holmes is a guy.

They drafted his fourth round pick who couldn't sack anyone at Ohio state. And then he came here, never got to play his first couple of years, gets to play, gets no sacks, and then they replace him. And that, I mean, that's football for you. Uh, but, and that was another pick where we went, okay, there's the, we're going to compare him to Neil Hunter. Cause he's got long arms kind of deal. Uh, say DJ Wanham does look more jacked. So maybe, maybe the fact that they haven't gotten another defensive end, DJ Wanham is a winner of mini camp because the fact that

they just haven't replaced them means they feel good about him. So put him aside in this, but James Lynch, fourth round draft pick. I have a tough time thinking he's going to see the field. So a lot of these players that they had drafted, hoping they would eventually take these positions and sort of be the next Kendricks or Hunter or digs, or somebody who comes from the middle rounds to emerge as a really good player. It has not happened. And they had to do a lot to their cap because of it. i would say you know the cap is a bit of a winner and a loser like this year's cap is a winner next year's cap is a loser because they have really had to mess around with it quite a bit to be able to get all of these veteran

players in here and we sort of praised that yesterday where we talked about well wow you did a lot to to build this defense with veteran players. At the same time, what that is, is an indictment on the way that you've drafted and Hey, I'm, I'm draft nihilism guy and it's good luck and bad luck. It goes up and down, but they have certainly had a run of bad luck when trying to spot the middle round pass rusher interior or on the outside that they thought was going to kind of emerge as the next whoever yeah jaleel um didn't work out jalen holmes i can safely say is probably not going to work out um i don't know if he makes this roster you know offensive side drew samia like if you hit on samia you don't need to draft wyatt davis right You might, let's see, was that the Cleveland draft where they also took Samia or was that the year before?

Year before. No, it was the year before. Yeah, if they hit on Samia, maybe they don't even have to take Ezra Cleveland. So like, yeah, I mean, there's a ripple effect there where you're kind of like stacking draft picks on top at the same position because you whiff on the first attempt

and maybe even the second attempt. And particularly on the defensive line, they've got something in their head about fourth round defensive tackles, defensive ends that it, and they seem to latch on to these like sweet spots. Like, well, we got Griffin in the fourth. So we're always going to look there. We got digs in the fifth. So we're going to get receivers there.

And I don't know if that's a tried and true method because the sample size is getting bigger in their attempts and the hit rate is getting smaller. Yep. I totally agree. And I think the last loser that I have is maybe the most obvious because we've talked about him quite a bit, but Kellen Mond, you opened the show with Mike Zimmer's comments about him. The fact that we are, uh, going into day three, the final day of mini camps, and he's taking only a handful of reps is definitely not a win. So with the Browning bus and the Stanley station, both, um, whatever you want to call it, like people are on the Browning bus or they're visiting the Stanley station, but, uh, we

don't need a rhyme for Mond at the moment. So he's, he's just got a long way to go to prove anything. And the fact that he just can't even get second team reps, I think is, is a pretty big L for him to take so far. That's not to say that he's a bust or that he won't get it together in, in training camp and learn the offense better and operate and execute and become good. I mean, it's all possible. Uh, what wasn't it? Uh, Tyree killed that. He said he thought Patrick Mahomes wasn't any good at first. So like, look, you know, I'm not judging. I'm just saying

if we're doing winners and losers, uh, not a winner yet. Someone on Twitter tossed out the Mond mobile. And, and I think you responded by saying he hasn't earned a vehicle yet. Correct. Yep. Yep. You got to get in. I mean, you got to get in to take some reps first. He's waiting for his Uber. He's watching on the little screen, watching the dot, slowly inching toward him, stopping for gas, winding through the streets.

But we'll use that. We'll use Monmobile if he starts to uh you know get in his mobile whatever it is and mobile mobile or play or if he's got say upward mobility on the depth chart then it will be the mon mobile look at you creative i know that's why people listen so um all right i want to mention the zimmer vaccination thing if you have anything else say so now yeah um no let's rip the band-aid okay all right uh so here's what zimmer said it was very actually I thought quite thoughtful of Mike Zimmer and quite insightful he said that they met with the main doctor guy of the NFL and he gave all the players their information as much information as you could possibly get Mike Zimmer said the word antibodies

which I did not have on my bingo board of Mike Zimmer ever saying the word antibodies, but he did. And he sort of explained to us why he is vaccinated and why, you know, or what they're trying to sort of tell the players. And then he made a point to say, it's going to be a lot worse for you if you do not get vaccinated as a player because you're going to have to have the same protocols as last year which is a plenty that means you can't like have lunch with your teammates that means you can't go home during the bye week that means uh you can't go out to dinner the night before so it's really kind of splitting the team up a little bit and i think this is happening across the league and so i think that zimmer was kind of

making the point that like look it's just you know it's going to be a lot easier for us to come together if we have a lot of guys buy in now that is not to say that whoever is uh listening to the show here that you look you can do whatever you want with your life that's your call uh but from a football perspective this this is relevant. Andrew Kramer asked a couple of questions, saw people get mad at him about it. It's relevant. Chris Paul might have to miss games in the NBA Western Conference Finals because of this. And we don't, I don't know more information about that, but it's just like this remains

a storyline and reporters are going to ask about it because it's relevant. If you have players who are unvaccinated and they get COVID and they're out and they cost you games like that's, it could happen. So it's something worth asking about and getting information about. That's all I wanted to say about it. I found, but I just wanted to compliment Zimmer on being very transparent about where he stands on this controversial issue. Yeah, it is. Um, and I think Zimmer, you know, told the line well between like speaking about it from a like safety and

wellness perspective, as well as a football perspective. Now, you can speculate on where a football coach might land privately on this debate. But what's clear is with Zimmer is that he cares about the ramifications from a football standpoint. And he's reiterated numerous times how refreshing it is to be able to communicate with his staff without a mask and to have the players like within arm's length for instruction purposes. Like that, that means something to him because he's an old school coach. He's hands on. He wants to look people in the eye and, you know, quiz them and call on them in the meeting room. And if it's on the field, he wants to be able to guide them in the right maneuvers. So to him, to see, and we've got confirmation now, there's some very key players on this team that have said they're not vaccinated.

Harrison Smith, Adam Thielen, Sheldon Richardson, Kirk Cousins declined to answer. I think that probably, you know, speculation might mean he's not. Don't know for sure. But when Zimmer looks at key players potentially missing games, potentially not in the meeting rooms, I think that is a little upsetting to him from a football standpoint. And he seemed to kind of draw a line there and say, it's going to be hard on those people. And maybe those realities will set in more when the season starts

and the inconveniences will push people in a certain way. If you want my personal opinion, if, if, you know, if they have the information and they haven't made the choice by now, um, they may not be inclined to do, but it is one. It is one. If you're talking about guys getting tested now, the same way that they had to get tested last year, which means, and we know that this happens, that sometimes it will be unclear. And I think it was maybe Des Bryant who got pulled off the sideline because it was unclear whether it was positive or negative. I mean, this from a football perspective, what Mike Zimmer said is right, that it's going to make some people's lives a little more challenging. And I don't think the NFL is just going to throw up their hands and say, oh, well, let's bleep it. Let's just go forward with it. I think they're going to, they're going to stay

like on top of this thing because they know that an outbreak of some kind can shut down an entire team. And it happened last year with the Tennessee Titans. So that will be of some kind can shut down an entire team and it happened last year um with the tennessee titans so uh that will be something worth kind of keeping an eye on and getting updates on as we go forward and uh hopefully someday it is not because it's all gone and uh that will be a good day well yeah it will be a good day and think about this too like there's probably going to be fans this year. Like think about morning of game, like outbreak happening, you know, team like, like sudden postponement, 50,000 people, like thinking they're going to go to the game and then they're not like that.

You know, that might be a reality this year. Well, we saw last year, they'll make you play your wide receiver quarterback. That's another thing. True. They did not give the Denver Broncos a break. Imagine if you're the Vikings and this is just why we ask. year they'll make you play your wide receiver quarterback that's another thing true they did not give the Denver Broncos a break imagine if you're the Vikings and this is just why we ask and and why we're why it gets talked about imagine if you're the Vikings and you have a couple of players go out and what you know what are you going to do you're just going to play on and if

it costs you a game then it it becomes a competitive type of advantage or disadvantage. So that will just be from a football perspective, something very interesting to keep an eye on. And that is that. So we don't know as we record this, if they're actually going to hold the third day of mandatory mini camps. Sometimes they just cancel it because they feel like they've gotten far enough. So we'll see if we have more to get to, but I know we're going to talk with Cameron De Silva tomorrow about the Rams and just,

we're going to get his perspective on Matt Stafford playing there. So I'm excited about that. And it's, it's been fun. I've been really, you know, I've been really happy OTAs mini camp. I enjoy these things.

You enjoy these things. And last year it was just freaking miserable. So it's been good. So we'll talk about it again soon. Yeah. Sounds good. We'll, uh, we'll have some, some fun in the sun tomorrow at TCO one more time if they have it.