Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Star Tribune's Andrew Krammer and FOX Sports reporter Carmen Vitali give the final word on Vikings Bears

Episode Date: November 23, 2024

Matthew Coller previews Bears-Vikings with Andrew Krammer and Carmen Vitali Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here inside TCO Performance Center with none other than Andrew Kramer of the Minnesota Star Tribune. I am wearing a jacket because I was just outside. Bikies are practicing outside. I don't know if you can see from the cheeks. I'm pretty cold. Andrew stayed inside because he is very soft and now the star tribune has 11 beat reporters so he didn't have to go outside

there but anyway uh this is what the weather is going to be like in chicago for vikings and bears so let's get into our hardcore preview andrew uh let's not start in the most obvious place let's start with the bears defense against the Vikings offense. I don't think all problems for the Vikings offense solved last week just because Sam Darnold played better. And the Bears have kind of had Kevin O'Connell's number a little bit since Matt Eberflus took over. Do you think that that is a Eberflus trend?

Or do you think that that was just maybe those particular matchups? Josh Dobbs played in one of them, or is it something that they do that handles the Vikings well? Well, Matt Eber Fluth has had good defenses. The problem is Ryan Poles has just done everything to take away every good piece he's had. I mean, they bring in some good linebackers and Tremaine Edmonds and TJ Edwards. Those guys have been kind of the straw that stirs the drink there. But I think the Vikings struggles there. They've won four straight years in Chicago. So it's more of a grinded out kind of game that we're used to. And I think this year's Bears defense is going to give you more of the same. They are the number one red zone team

in football. I think they're number four and third downs. They give up big plays, but they don't give up a lot of points. And so this Vikings team is going to have to win the way that they've honestly typically won in these games, which is throwing over the top 47 yarder to Jordan Addison here, 98 yarder to Justin Jefferson there. I don't think, nor has this Bears defense allowed many offenses to march down the field on them. And this isn't the way Sam Darnold and the Vikings want to play anyway. Well, and the Vikings run game was very underwhelming to be Minnesota nice about what happened last week. Really, they got killed up front and couldn't run the football at all.

And I don't think Chicago has quite the bodies, though. I mean, Tennessee, that was the strength of their entire defense. And while they did slow down the Vikings running game, they didn't really slow down the Vikings passing game. It was actually the Vikings who slowed them down more by dropping passes. Uh, one of which could have been a long touchdown to Jalen Naylor, but the run game, I don't know that it's going to look as bad as it did against Titans every week, but in removing Darisaw and Ingram, it is less good at that than it was previously. How do you think that they make that up?

Because I don't think Chicago is an unbelievable run defense. Maybe if a Keem Hicks came back out of retirement and played for them this weekend, but as long as that doesn't happen, they're just a mediocre. Is it as bad as it looks or can it be better than that i think it can be better because you're not going to face jeffrey simmons every single week or to vandre sweat and the vikings will talk those guys up but there is truth and that they're probably one of the best tandems in football in terms of defensive tackles and the vikings have had to go through that now with these afc south teams so can it get better i don't know i don't really know because riser's the kind of defensive tackles and the Vikings have had to go through that now with these AFC South teams. So

can it get better? I don't know. I don't really know because Reisner is the kind of guy who's not going to give you a whole lot in that area. He's going to need to double team to move people. He's not going to single block move people. Problem is Garrett Bradbury is not either. Blake Brandel has been hit or miss there. Ed Ingram was the muscle they had on the inside and his inconsistency, especially in pass protection, where when he got beat, it was quickly, it was catastrophic for the play. They eventually got sick of that because it happened so much in that Jags game where a guy who's that far along 40 plus starts shouldn't be doing that. So you're going to give up some things though,

by making this switch, Dalton Reisner is going to be more consistent in pass throw. He's not going to have those big, bad beats, but he's also not going to be somebody who's going to open a ton of holes for you. This needs to be Aaron Jones' show. This needs to be somehow Aaron Jones getting healthy. I don't know how that happens without him taking some time off. If they're going to continue to play him 50% at least,

he's going to take hits like he took on Sunday where it's that big hit from the Titans nose tackle. And as he said on Wednesday this week, he's like, I saw that thing coming. I'm like, oh, God, no, as he's going to the ground because he's got busted ribs. He's also probably got 19 other injuries we don't know about right now. But to me, it's got to be him making the hay. It's got to be him forcing missed tackles, creating beyond what the blocking is going to do. Cam Robinson's an OK player.

We're seeing that he's almost adult and Reisner type where it's pretty consistent pass pro run game. So to me, Matt, I think they have to work around this offensive line and frankly, find a way to get Aaron Jones healthy and running back to where he was earlier in the season. Well, give me that all day in comparison to bad pass blocking because bad pass blocking is sacks it's fast sacks so your quarterback doesn't even have a chance to do a whirly spin move around like sam donald he seemed pretty proud of that which i would be too but also you could have died man that's that that's like when you're a kid and you set up like a jump for the bike and you're like mom watch and that and you don't understand like why are you getting so upset I jumped over it. That's what he was like to the press conference.

Are you sure you want to do that? Yeah, it worked out just fine. Okay. But I would much rather have the pass protection because that's going to be the Vikings' offensive ticket. It always was, even as good as Aaron Jones was earlier in the season. And I'm not sure that we factor that in quite enough when evaluating

Darnold, that it is a different world when you are running the ball with explosive plays and drawing the defense into that. And Cam Akers is a fine player and they let him down a couple of times, big time in that last game. I mean, there was a pitch to the left side where Hawkinson and Robinson blocked the same guy and nobody blocked Arden key and he just squishes the running back. There's nothing you could do on stuff like that. And that's a player who's coming back from injury, a player who doesn't play here until halfway through the season and run game takes a lot of that feel for each other. I don't know about communication, but just feel for, Oh yeah, we all know our assignment. We all know how we're going to double team, how we're going to work off. And this offensive line is just not going to have it.

So what's the workaround? The screen game has just gone poof into the atmosphere after being really good early in the year. I would like to see that come back. And we keep talking about a short passing game to Jordan Addison. It was there with Hawkinson against the Jaguars, but I would like to see that be a focus because they are not going to be able to pound the ball over and over again. And Sammy Darnold might have to throw 40 passes in these games. Yeah, I don't think there is a worker.

I think it's going to be on Sam. It's going to continue to be on Sam. A few quarterbacks have to do as much as he does in terms of scoring points. If he's not throwing touchdowns, they're generally not scoring them. That doesn't happen everywhere. Joe Burrow is one of the places that it also happens with, but usually it's got to be a pretty top quarterback to be relied on that much. This is a Vikings offense in transition, and it's been, hey, we tried to run the ball. We paid for Aaron Jones, and now we still can't. So it's got to be on Sam.

It's got to be this pass attack we're talking about that is one of the most talented and the most explosive in football. They have to rely on that. They have to keep going back to the well with Sam. Because when you look at this run game, you can't all of a sudden just say, well, run behind Brian O'Neill every time. It doesn't work that way. This team has tried to run in the middle. They've tried to become a predominant duo interior line or interior run game where they've tried to use these weak offensive linemen in the inside, pair them together and push and try to just give up

on the second level at times and say, you know what, Aaron, dodge the linebackers. They're on you because that's how infrequently they can get consistent blocks up front with their run game. So it's going to look like that, I think, the rest of the year, it's what you're stuck with in the workaround is scheme. It's coaches figuring out a way to get the ball to Aaron Jones on the perimeter, whether that's tunnel screens, bubble screens, just flat passes, whatever, just quick things to get the ball out. And then Sam continuing to do what he did in Tennessee, which is make incredible plays in

the pocket by time, keep his eyes up, looking downfield. That's the stuff that the Vikings love to see. He did a great job in the pocket. The scramble stood out, but there were a few moments where he had to slide away. And I thought it was a great rep from Dalton Reisner when he got pushed right back into Darnold, but he stayed on that Jeffrey Simmons

and he held on to him just long enough for Darnold to move around him and make a play. And that's why risers in there. And Ed Ingram is not, uh, I don't think that one's all that deep. I feel like some, there was maybe an attempt for some people to make that into a debate. It was a very easy choice to do that. And I think in the long run, it will benefit them a ton, even if there is this drawback, but also when your right guard ranked previously 48th out of 60 or something and run blocking, he wasn't doing well in run blocking either. And they couldn't get, you know, fourth and ones or third ones behind him either before Reisner came out. That is a weakness and they have to find a way around it. It doesn't seem like they want CJ Hamm to be that weakness necessarily

and try to plow him forward. It doesn't look like Josh Oliver is going to play in this game, or at least it's very suspect that he might. We just came back. Some of us just came back for practice. You know, the real grinders. I'm so warm and cozy in here. It's nice.

And, yeah, so it was windy but lake effect cj ham is just not that guy like he's just not sam gash he is the modern fullback he's not lorenzo neal he's not this battering right yeah he's not quite the battering ram classic lead fullback so and if they don't have oliver on the outside there really isn't a great option for this other than to try to get the ball out of Darnold's hands quickly. Like you said, run some types of screens on the other side of it. Someone sent me a tweet or a blue sky message post. They got to come up with something there.

Let's just call them tweets. Let's just take it back. Yeah. Okay. Right. Yeah. Tweet on that other thing that's supposed to be less crazy but i've still got crazy notes from it uh and someone was asking about the over under for caleb williams sacks do you think that brian forrest's defense will lay waste to the rookie quarterback i do think he's

got a great shot at it because the bears they rode the caleb williams experience last week at their first game under their new play caller they tried to do some simple things get him in rhythm yet when he got them back into that game at the end or tried to it was back-to-back sacks in the fourth quarter against the packers and then he also whips out three completions for 49 yards gets him in the field goal range then that kick gets blocked so it's just the up and down nature that we're going to see from a young quarterback. And I think against Brian Flores' defense, that's going to be no different. Find a young quarterback the last year and a half, even with the personnel they had last year, who's done well against them.

They just can't. The Vikings win the battle before the snap so frequently against these young quarterbacks. And I don't think Caleb Williams is going to be any different, especially in an offense that's trying to find its simplicity. It's trying to find its rhythm. That means it's not going to have a ton, generally a ton of answers built in or a quarterback who's ready to adjust to those said answers. So I think the Vikings are going to win just by trying to out athlete these guys. They're going to say, you know what?

Jonathan Grenard is going to beat these guys off the edge. We don't need you to go deep in our bag. Let's just play straight up for a lot of this. Maybe confuse him a little bit on third down. They're not going to need a whole lot. I do think this is going to be a dominant effort for the Vikings, especially if they get them into obvious pass situations where Caleb Williams has taken a lot of sacks. And the fact that DeAndre Swift is banged up, not sure if he's going to play, that would mean Roshan Johnson, who is their backup. And he's a nice player, but he's not Swift. Right. Swift has been a real problem for the Vikings. And at very least, he's going to be limited in what he can do if he can play in this game.

The Vikings have been an amazing run defense and the gentlemen that deserve some credit that don't get a lot of talk about them and their role this year is the interior defensive lineman, Harrison Phillips, Jonathan Bullard, and Jerry Tillery. Tillery has done a great job at just solidifying the group. They had no one last year that they really trusted to go in there and they were putting a lot on the plate of Bullard and a ton on Harrison Phillips. Now they can rotate a little bit more. They haven't been on the field as much more. And I think there's a correlation there with those big guys not being on the field as much, but the fact that they put Will Levis when he has a good running back, but they made him into situations where he just had to throw and throw and throw. If they do that to Caleb Williams,

I think it's problematic for him. He has 10 sacks that have been attributed just to him this year. And the rest of them seem to be attributed to their left tackle, who we might see Grenard lineup over a lot there. With Caleb Williams, though, there's one thing that scares you a little bit about it is, well, he will take those sacks. He can also do things that are downright spectacular. And this is not a group of corners and DBs that can stick on people for three, four seconds. Yeah. We've seen this movie before it was CJ Stroud coming to us, being stadium, a better quarterback with better equal weapons, I guess. Cause Nico Collins was still healthy at that point. We saw this, the Vikings knew going into it. We need to keep him in the pocket when this guy gets out, especially rolling to his right,

he's dangerous. So if the Vikings going into this game, presumably want to take that away, I think they can do it. I think they're pretty set up to do it. And also the good thing is that the bears went into last week, trying to get Caleb going on the ground. He had 10 carries for 70 plus yards. Four of those were designed runs, zone reads. Six of them were scrambles. The Vikings crushed Will Levis in the zone read. They tried to bring that out. Tennessee did. It went nowhere. I think it was five runs for six yards or something like that. The Vikings read it every time. Van Ginkle, Grenard, even Pat Jones. There was no fooling those guys. They every time could step up and take it out. So if the bears go to that, the designed run for Caleb, I don't think Flores has anything to be

worried about. It is the off script plays that you're talking about. It's the, if they drop back on third and 10, we think we can get a normal four man rush on him and he somehow breaks contain. This guy's really capable of throwing on the run. CJ Stroud, like at finding guys downfield, it's hit or miss. It's inconsistent because of how young he is and the decision-making still This guy's really capable at throwing on the run, C.J. Stroud-like, at finding guys downfield. It's hit or miss. It's inconsistent because of how young he is and the decision-making still coming along. But if the Vikings have to worry about any kind of explosive element with this team, it is that.

It is you got to keep contain on him because he's got a Kyler Murray-style ability to get out and make plays. I ran across a stat. I want you to tell me what you think of it so byron murphy and stefan gilmore this according to pff are in the bottom 10 as far as man coverage this year that they have barely played man coverage at all this entire season however the top of the league in terms of actually using uh man coverage there's only like four guys who have played man coverage more than half of the time. It is really turned into a zone coverage league. So did we, or have we focused too much on that part of it? Cause I know they said they wanted to play more

man and they do with Shaq Griffin a little bit, but I don't know that we need to be as concerned about that as we've talked about, or do you think we should be? No, I think Brian Flores in this perfect world wants a 25 year old Stefan Gilmore who can do that. Like, yes, I still think ideally you do that, but I was talking to Cam Bynum about this not too long ago because he was calling back the time last year when they asked him to play corner. And he was look we were down so bad they had me doing it and none of us want me doing that and that's why we brought in gilmore and shack griffin and all that but he had mentioned the wide receivers that are out there in today's game so few people can play man-to-man reliably against excuse me against these guys this is an nfl in a league that is just producing aj browns every week it's here every

year it seems like in the draft class you're getting Malik neighbors one year, you're getting Jamar Chase and Justin Jefferson, the same class coming out. Um, the, these guys are coming in trained to more produce right away in these passing attacks with these quarterbacks and head coaches. They're more inclined to get them going right away in their fricking aliens that are coming out doing this stuff. I think that's why you're seeing the proliferation of zone. You're seeing the proliferation of too high quote unquote shell coverage. That's just a nice word for saying that they want to put an entire blanket over the top of what you're doing. Zone is the only way to do that. And I think you're seeing teams try to counteract the athleticism of offenses by playing all that zone. Flores knows

this, but you know, a guy as aggressive as Brian says, you know what? I don't want my guys to cover for five seconds anyway. We're going to apply so much pressure that in a perfect world, I think he still does want to play more man. I don't know this,

but my guess based on his experience, based on where he's been and what he's done and what he's had the most success with, especially in Miami, was playing a lot of man coverage with really good corners. And I think he's making do with what the league demands right now, but also with what he's got in the cupboard. Oh, the other thing about playing man is that we've seen a massive

increase in pre-snap motion in the NFL over the last couple of years, because everybody found out that when McVay was doing it, it was a hack and that the numbers increased when there was motion before the play. And so every offense went, okay, we're going to use that. And if you try to play man on that, you're running across all the whole formation with that wide receiver. They could get behind people. They can run mesh stuff on you. And it just is really tricky. So I think you have to play back in your zones. Most the time i guess that's that to me felt like we probably make too much of this however you would like to have somebody that if you need to stick them on a guy one-on-one shut him down it's third down and long we need you on

the outside or we need to play a single high for this type of blitz or whatever i also think too that the defense that blitz is like this and and this goes for all the history of the NFL, will sometimes give up a big play. And sometimes you'll be like, what the heck happened there? And a 98 yarder really stands out in particular. But there's a couple more even from that game where you go, man, that guy was really wide open. That's what happens when you do this. The trade-off is they're top of turnovers, they're top in pressures, they're top in sacks. And what you're betting on is you might get a couple of big plays off this, or you might find the middle of the field as they did with the Lions on a longer drive. But we're going to hit you with a negative play eventually. It's very similar to how Kevin O'Connell views offense,

where I'm going to hunt explosives, as he says, and sometimes that's going to result in interceptions. And a lot of times it's going to result in big plays. And that's just how Flores is doing it. All of this is to ask you, if you think that the last couple of games mean anything to the evaluation of this defense, they played bad quarterbacks, bad coaches in some instances, not the type of weapons they're going to play down the stretch here. Is it a great defense again, or is it a mid-defense where the truth is somewhere in the middle? Is it the defense that played against the Rams?

What are we supposed to think? Yeah, I think this is a really, really good defense that with another year of talent infusion could be great. I think that's where they're at. I think their talent level is still at the point where it's not all time great. It's not top five currently in the NFL. Great. I don't think, but they have the capability to be that given the scheme that they've got, the intelligence that they've got on the field and their ability to morph into really whatever you need them on a given Sunday, that's their strength.

But when you put the Detroit Lions offense out there, that's just overwhelming. I'm trying to think of other examples. I think even Green Bay, when they get rolling the way they can with a healthy Jordan Love, there are going to be times where you just don't have the talent against some of the better offensive lines in football. Because we talk about Tillery. We talk about Harrison Phillips. These guys have been so steady in exactly what you wanted them to be.

They're not making a pro bowl. They're not ranking up their impressors or sacks. There's still going to be lapses and things you give up on this defense based on what you're working with. And we talk about the man coverage, the elder secondary. If you can make Stephon Gilmore tackle, if you can make Harrison Smith run and tackle, that's how you beat them. And I think that's why it's the Green Bay and Detroit matchups are the ones you got

to worry about if you're the Vikings, because they know you the best and they're built to beat you. Especially when I think of Detroit, we know protection, throw over the middle. But Green Bay is such a good horizontal run game team. Matt LaFleur is such a deep bag of just knowing how to get the ball out to Jaden Reed on the perimeter, Christian Watson here, Josh Jacobs there. It's just such an impressive and voluminous offense that they have that that's where I think that this Vikings defense is going to get tested. But can we learn anything?

Yeah, we know that they've cemented their place as a top 10, probably defense in the league this year. And now this last month is going to tell us whether they're top five or not. Right. Presently, if we look at the numbers, they're the best defense in the NFL, but that's after playing three of the worst offenses. And if it had been Anthony Richardson, maybe it might've been a little trickier, but, uh, you know, Joe Flacco went out there and couldn't get them inside the 20 yard line and just struggled. And as a thousand years old, and then, I mean, even Levis had some moments where I thought he played pretty well considering this defense.

And so we need to see. It's just been so long. And as we try to make any evaluation for anything, it's been so long since they've played a good team. And they're not really playing a good team this week. But it's also not as bad as the last three teams. And that's where let's go into the like who's gonna win uh let's move the safeties like o'connell does his press conferences uh but let's go let's go into who's gonna win it's soldier field i remember saying once upon a time i would never pick the vikings at soldier field just because of history but they've won a bunch of times there.

They should still win this game, but I don't think that it's going to be, okay, all right, well, the Titans sort of scored that crazy touchdown, but we never thought they were going to lose. I think this one could be a little bit more grip the edge of your seat. Yeah, this could have more of a Jacksonville-type feel unless Caleb Williams gives it away. That's the thing. Will Levis had that power in his hands all last Sunday to gives it away that's the thing like Will Levis

had that power in his hands all last Sunday to give it away he just he didn't um now Harrison Smith dropped an early pick he said he wanted two of them in that game but um Williams is that the ball rests in his court if he doesn't take a ton of sacks if he plays smart football keeps the score um his defense keeps the score relatively low they can absolutely be in this game Vikings fans should rightfully be worried that you've kind of got the dead coordinator bounce you've got the new coordinator coming in second game uh feels like they kind of found a little bit of a rhythm brian flores said this week he told us they probably ran the ball well they controlled the clock i assume they're going to stick with the same formula on sunday so deandre swift's health is huge in this one if If he's healthy, that is going to be not good, obviously, for the Vikings.

He went for nearly 200 yards last time they faced each other in Philadelphia. This isn't the same offense in Chicago, but if they don't have him and it's just Roshon Johnson back there, I think the Vikings could easily then key off on Caleb Williams and it could be a long day for him. So to me, it's about that Chicago running game. I think the Vikings win. I think it's going to be another close, grinded-out kind of game that has Vikings fans saying, God, we just want to win a comfortable game.

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to get a 10% discount on Catan for a limited time only. And when we talk about the rest of the schedule, because the real tests are coming as far as offenses go i have a ton of respect you know drew petzing who is the offensive coordinator for arizona's done an amazing job there i think with uh kyler murray former viking wide receivers coach under stefanski and then you have kirk and his bunch of weapons. And then you have Gino Smith and then Jordan. There's a lot of good quarterbacks to come. I feel like they kind of need this one. And I don't mean needed to make the playoffs, but there's a new bar.

And the bar is not just make the playoffs. The new bar is press Detroit. If you can't get there, at least end up with that five seed. So you get the easiest match up of all the teams that win their divisions, which very well, maybe Atlanta. But if you're going to Atlanta in the first round of the playoffs with a much better record than them, you're feeling pretty good. That's where they're trying to go here. If you lose this one, it becomes a little more dicey, even though there's a lot of home games, just based on the caliber of

quarterback that you're going to face going forward. Yeah, this is all about trajectory and vibes and style points, right? The Vikings are 8-2, but if we go along the course of their season, they bottom out with two losses in five days, and they've kind of tried to climb their way out of it. That Colts game you didn't feel great about, Jags game you certainly didn't feel great about. Tennessee was a step in the right direction. Chicago, toward this tough part of their schedule, can be a further step in the right direction. Chicago, toward this tough part of their schedule,

can be a further step in the right direction. If you continue that upward trajectory of, say, if you walk out of this game and say, Sam Darnold played pretty good, we still feel good about the direction we're headed, then yeah, that's the vibes that you're carrying into that tough portion you're talking about. Arizona, Atlanta, right into the final quarter of their season. So for me, this is going to be about

Sam Darnold keeping the consistency going. If he has another bad game and we're talking about a great Titans game sandwiched between two bad Darnold games, you're not going to feel great about looking at the rest of your schedule. You're going to think, oh boy, Marvin Harrison, Trey McBride, Kyler Murray coming into town. Yes, it's at home. Yes, we like our defense, but if you've got to trust Sam to put up more than 20 points, which he hasn't done in a minute, that is going to be the part that you're not going to feel good about. So it's all about Sam. It's all about that consistency and just feeling that you're headed in the right direction for this one. I based on the weather

where you're playing, who you're playing against if sam darnold plays ugly and they win this is much more one where i'll go oh whatever man like the jaguars game was hard to pick apart because they were so good in the middle of the field and so bad in the red zone and those interceptions were just nightmares for anyone who's thinking about oh what's he going to do in the playoffs is he going to throw three picks and all that sort of thing? But if he has a tough day and they squeak it out, then you just have to survive Soldier Field. Speaking of which, before we wrap up here, what is your favorite Vikings and Bears at Soldier Field type of moment?

Wow, there's a lot to choose from. There's a lot. I could just go off of my own experience covering games there it started in 2013 with the year that was les frazier's final year they blew some record at the time it was a record like seven games in the last minute like if games had been 59 minutes long they would have seven more wins that season there were five ten and one that year i think um they go there in week two and that was when they lose in the final minute again.

And Alan Williams was the defensive coordinator. And I remember that locker room was so tense because Jay Cutler threw a bomb. I think it was to Martellus Bennett or one of the monsters. They had Alshon Jeffrey or Brandon Marshall. They had so many giant guys there, but that locker room was so tense afterward and everybody just hated the final play call. What had happened there? Um, that was so tense afterward and everybody just hated the final

play call what had happened there um that was a bad memory for Vikings fans the one though that's probably my favorite is the Teddy Bridgewater boy was it 2015 I think it might have been his second year he's driving down the field he has a chance to win this game young Teddy Bridgewater to bring his Vikings team back in a season they won the division and the clocks go out um they just go dark and all of a sudden he has no idea we're trying to figure out we're tracking this thing on nfl.com trying to figure out how much time is left in this game we have no idea and teddy when there was actually 40 seconds left lobs this ball up thinking he has no time left throws a pick gives game away. It ruins any chance that they had of coming back.

And afterward, the clock operator had to issue a statement. There had to be a pull report with the clock operator to be like, we're sorry. Sorry, Teddy. And that's all they could do. So when we talk about House of Horrors stuff, like they lost 16 of 19 games between 2001 and 2019 in Chicago. They went 3-16 in those nearly 20 years and it was crap like that that consistently happens so the fact that they've won four straight games there

now makes all that just a distant memory what about you what's your favorite you know what you just said right what you just said though they won these games in a row so now it's a distant it makes it feel like it i said it doesn't mean that it won't be it doesn't mean that it's not gonna come crawling back like some like some zombie that you're just stomping on its head that that was that was very close under the same categories like this kicker's been nailed this year uh go wrong so i shouldn't say favorite because it's uh it was but just craziest is 2016 hands down we showed up in Chicago thinking, okay, this is going to blow this team out. The Vikings were a one-loss team, and Zimmer had been ripping the heads off of stuffed animals the week before.

And so it was a little uncomfortable, but they were 1-6, and they come out and have a, I believe it was a 69-yard run on the first or second play from scrimmage by Jordan Howard, who was one of those Viking killers. And right from there, everyone looked around and went, what is going on? That was when North Turner took back the reins from Pat Shermer and they were running deep dropbacks with TJ Clemens, giving out pressures constantly Zimmer's eyes popping out North quits after the game. It was, that was insane. I remember J Ron curse got benched on that Jordan Howard run. He got a start. His first,

his only start ever next to Harrison Smith. If you go back and look it up, it's true. And he gets benched three games or three plays into it because of that 69 yard touchdown run. Yeah, that was a wild game. I forgot about that. And then, yeah, we come back here to winter park and nor quits like on the Tuesday. It was like a couple of days after the fact. And then we find out Zim's also got a giant red swollen eye and needs surgery. One of eight surgeries he would go under, I think, on that eye. And yeah, Zimmer tearing up at the podium, talking about how he's friends with Norv.

And then we never really got the full story about that whole thing. And, uh, Chicago, man, hold on to your butts. We do know that they have not spoken. So as of Mark Craig talked to Norv boy, like four or five years ago,

and they still hadn't spoken five years later. Yeah. I asked, uh, Mike one time I was like, Mike, do you want to tell us what happened with Norv? This is like a couple of years after.

And he said, well, I'll have it in my book. I'll read it. I will too yeah i'll write it if he wants to but i i think he i think mark uh mark is going to be the exclusive writer there he seems to be his pen pal yeah the number of shots he would take of people in a book would be astounding anyway well uh we'll see you never do know what is going to happen in chicago this time so we'll be there as always thank you andrew for all of your time football we'll catch y'all later i'm football gifting is hard but here's a hint give the gift of connection from u.s cellular

not sure what that means here's a slightly more specific hint. You can choose four free phones and get four lines for $90 a month from U.S. Cellular. Your family wants new phones. How do we know? They told us. The good news is that compared to wrapping presents, you are great at getting hints. So take a hint and get them four free phones and four lines for $90 a month. U.S. Cellular, built for us. Had to roll out all the big guns for this week. Carmen Vitale, Fox Sports NFL reporter. Carmen, we've got a big game to talk about for the Vikings

for the first time in a really long time. It feels like as they have cruised through the AFC South, I want no follow-ups with that. They won the games. Let's never talk about them again. Vikings-Bears, your thoughts? Yeah, it's going to be very, very interesting

given the fact that Brian Flores and his defenses have been able to put quarterbacks in a blender, even some experienced quarterbacks in a blender. The only ones that have been able to figure him out somewhat have been Matthew Stafford and Jared Goff so far this season.

Caleb Williams is not either of those guys. He does idolize Matthew Stafford, though. But he hasn't seen a lot when it comes to NFL defenses. They're just going through all of these changes in Chicago with Thomas Brown as his new offensive play caller. Things looked a lot better against the Packers. Now can that continue against a really tough test as far as what he's going to be looking at, what's going to be thrown at him.

I fully expect Brian Flores to try and overwhelm this offensive line, though they do have and they have had now their two tackles back. So they're pretty healthy along the offensive line, or at least healthier than they've been for most of the season. I still fully expect that to be a huge trench battle right in front of Caleb Williams. So it's going to be very key to try to get him as much information prior to the snap as you're kind of looking at what Brian Flores likes to do,

even though that could change post-snap. I do wonder about Caleb and how he's going to respond to this Flores defense, because I feel like it's a little bit of a toughness check. Like, how tough are you? Are you willing to stand in there? And Jared Goff did an amazing job of this. Stafford got rid of the ball quickly, but Goff took a bunch of hits in that game, still found his way, made his way through all those pressures.

And I think that even if you're a young quarterback that's going to take some hits and struggle if you fight your way through that i'm going to be impressed because i know how difficult it is up front but i have a bigger philosophical question for you before we get into this game because i feel like it's so on display here is when kevin o''Connell said that quarterbacks don't fail organizations, organizations fail quarterbacks, like how much of you believes that? And how much of you goes, I don't know, some quarterbacks just aren't that good. No, I mean, obviously there are some swings and misses on quarterbacks in this league,

but I think what we're seeing more than ever which minnesota itself and sam darnold with kevin o'connell is the shining example of the fact that coaching matters environment matters that is all that all needs to align in order for quarterbacks to be good because they aren't given the runway that perhaps they were 20 years ago or the runway that they're given in college to really develop. That's not something that, especially if you're taking in the first round with a high pick,

you're expected to produce right away. That's not necessarily fair for the toughest position in sports in all four major North American sports. It's the toughest position, it's the most involved. You have to process so much information at speeds that are absolutely insane and quite

different from what you just did in college. I think that's what gets lost in all of this is the college game, while it looks similar when you're watching it, is still drastically different than what these guys are asked to do at the NFL level. And so there is quite a learning curve. Now, some of these guys are put in positions where they're able to ease into the NFL style of play, a la Jaden Daniels in Washington. I think Cliff Kingsbury did a wonderful job of meshing what Jaden was asked to do in college versus what he will be asked to do in the NFL, and really pared that down for the first part of the season. The first four weeks of the season, Jaden Daniels, his average depth of target was one of the lowest in the league. He was a very conservative, very basic offense. He wasn't responsible for all of the pre-snap checks and decisions and all that. His offensive

line helped him, and we now know how good that offensive line is now that the season has gone on. And then after those first four or five weeks, you started to see more introduction of the downfield pass. Daniels was picking his spots. His confidence was up. His understanding of the offense, his rapport with his receivers, all of that had started to come along. And only then did Cliff Kingsbury say, okay, now you can have this part of the playbook. And now we're going to open it up this way. That, to me is

such a good coaching job. That's such a kind of a roadmap to use when you're kind of developing these guys to get their confidence up because that initial situation matters so, so much. And I do think that a lot of organizations, whether it's as simple as the coach his his teaching philosophies don't align with that quarterback's learning style or it's a situation like in Chicago for instance where Mattie Berflues is coaching for his job he is you've now set up this wonderful environment roster wise but now the expectations are through the roof and there is absolutely no patience. There is no, any sort of really ability to ease this guy in because he needs to start producing right away as the number one overall pick. And if that doesn't align or you're not given the option to

ease him in, you saw it. Shane Waldron gave him the whole playbook right off the bat, all of the responsibilities, all the pre-snap decisions, all of the protection calls and checks and all of that was all on Caleb Williams' plate right off the bat. Going against defenses that he's never seen before was kind of a recipe for disaster. So I'm just hoping now going forward, we're seeing, all right, we're adjusting, we're pulling things back a little bit. We're getting Caleb Williams comfortable again and confident again so that he can actually develop the rest of the year. There's just a big part of me that thinks it just shouldn't be this hard, right?

Like it's almost like every offensive dude has to prove how much they can make a quarterback do until his head explodes. Meanwhile, Kyle Shanahan's like, run the bootleg again, and they run a play action and somebody's wide open. And I know San Francisco's having a tougher time this year, but that's just been Jimmy Garoppolo operating it, Brock Purdy, and keeps hacking the system. And even last year with Bobby Slowik and the way that he handled CJ Stroud

when they could block a little better, they still ran a lot of bootlegs and a lot of little things off of that that made life pretty easy for CJ Stroud at times. And I think that's what Kevin O'Connell is battling with. It's like the angel and the devil on Kevin O'Connell's shoulder here, because you know that he wants to run every single thing he's ever thought of in his whole life for Justin Jefferson. But he also knows that he can't. And about halfway through and really after that Rams game, it felt like he made an adjustment to where they haven't scored as many points.

But they've had the ball forever. And their success rate is really high. And their first downs are really high. And that to me was Kevin O'Connell saying to himself, I can't just ask Darnold to be back there being Kirk Cousins, who was 34 years old and had all those years of starting. I've got to pare it down. And it's been really effective the last couple of weeks. I mean, I know the interceptions in the Jaguars game, but holding onto the ball, long drives, and then really good bounce back against Tennessee. I think that's been the key to this thing sustaining some success. Yeah. And again, that's also just kind of, that's all part of the

development process too. I mean, this is also, it's not even just the quarterbacks that are developing, it's their play callers. It's who, how can they adjust and figure out what their guys do well? And then what can they do with that? It's all this whole puzzle piece that all has to go together. And when you're talking about a head coach who is also the offensive play caller, it's, all right, as a head coach, he has all of the logistical decisions to go through. I think that that's been my talking point this week. It's just basically about what head coaches have to do on top of the X's and O's and the on-field part and how that

impacts the situation that these guys are in and how well that they can develop. And again, how much the organization trusts them and all that kind of stuff. You have to make every little decision when you're the head coach, whether that's the meal that y'all are going to have when you take off on the road and what's going to be on the plane, what's waiting for you at the hotel. It's what hotels are you staying in and when are you getting out to certain places? And you're consulting with the guys that you hired in the sports science side of things, the training side of things, like when you have longer road trips and this, that, the other. Like all of this stuff comes along with being a head coach. And sometimes it can spread you a little thin.

So I think that there's that in, you have to kind of like think about that when it comes to, all right, this head coach is also learning himself what he needs to do in order to be successful and to help his players along. And that doesn't just concern what's on the field. It's an all encompassing, very holistic thing when you're talking about being the head coach and play caller. And I think Kevin O'Connell has made this all look a little bit on the easy side from all the things you just talked about, right? It's his first head coaching job. It's his first head coaching job in Minnesota and he's done it seamlessly.

I mean, I think it goes to maybe him being a player and understanding that perspective, because when I talk to players about why they grade O'Connell so high in those NFL PA things that we get everybody's dirt through, but they also grade the Vikings repeatedly high. One of the things they say is the scheduling's really good for us because O'Connell, you have to make up the schedule. You're a middle manager in a lot of ways. And it seems like Matt Eberflus has never really understood that. He's never understood the culture part of it and also finding the right person for Caleb Williams. And we know this from Mike Zimmer. You also can't just say, all right, you got the offense. Why don't you worry about that? And I'll take on the defense. It has to be, I dare I say,

collaborative effort, but the defensive guy also has to understand what's going on on the offensive side, not be many weeks late to make a reaction. And then you have to fire the guy because you have no other option where you should have been ahead of that much earlier in the season. Yeah. And that's where we've kind of seen Matty Berflus, you know, he's, I think a lot of these coaches fall into the trap of being loyal to a fault where you don't want to give up on your guy. And also, I mean, this was the second offensive coordinator that Matt Eberflus had to fire within a calendar year. That doesn't look good for you because, again, as the head coach, you are tasked with bringing along a staff that is going to allow you

to be successful. What I have found interesting this year, too, is Matt Eberflus, though he's the defensive play caller, though he's a defensive-minded to allow you to be successful. What I have found interesting this year too is Mattie Ruflus, though he's the defensive play caller, though he's a defensive-minded head coach, we've heard Caleb Williams talk about how, and Mattie Ruflus himself, talk about how they have a meeting every day. That's not very characteristic or normal when it comes to defensive head coaches having talked to some around the league. Every time I hear how involved Matt Iberflues has been on the offensive side of things, it's more and more apparent that he's doing these things because he knows that he's coaching for his job and that he needs to make sure that he's kind of having

to be forced into being a micromanager, which I also think kind of creates some tensions here and there where now you're really spreading yourself too thin because all of those other decisions I just talked about that have nothing to do with it what happens on the field are on his plate the defense is on his plate the defensive play calling and game plan is on his plate you're going to add quarterback development onto that as a defensive guy that's spreading yourself entirely too thin and again not a normal thing for a defensive head coach to be that involved. And then it still took you that long to make a change at play caller because you thought, well, all right, maybe you were, you just really had that much faith in Caleb Williams to be able to

overcome all of this, but you need to help him out a little bit again. I just, it was, it's, there's so much disconnect in Chicago right now, as far as like organizationally, they're, they have a very interesting structure when it comes to the team president being over football, which isn't always the case. Usually it's the GM that kind of has absolute authority over football decisions. And then you've got ownership that is involved, although they say they're not involved, but we all know that that's not usually the case and that, you know, if ownership is in these weekly meetings with the GM, with the president, with the head coach, you better believe they're involved. So it's all of this, all of these voices. And it know, it's not that the organization is cursed and can't get offensive players or quarterbacks. It's that their process is flawed. And there's a common denominator there that's been there the whole time that you think, OK, that's probably has more to do with this than anything. And until you rectify that situation, whether that is, you know,

I feel like I'm not thinking that the McCaskies are going to sell the team because they're a legacy franchise, they're the charter franchise, that family has been in control of this franchise forever. But do you maybe take a different approach? And that's what I think we all thought Kevin Warren was going to be, all that kind of stuff. I mean, this is all so far away from what happens on the field, but it affects it so greatly. The answer just seems like it was so much right there in front of them to change coaches and then pair a new coach with Caleb Williams and tie those two together going forward. And to miss that is just wild to me. And it's not like they had success. It's not like they won 11 games and then, well, can't fire him now they won seven and one of them i saw josh jobs throw four

interceptions i can't say it was a mind-blowing victory for the chicago bears and they you know had some lucky scheduling as as well that is what's odd to me and I guess I wonder how much you think they are failing Caleb Williams. How much does this set him back? And also maybe how much did this reveal some shortcomings about him? Because I also think I've seen some other quarterbacks go into some really bad situations and be able to push through. It doesn't seem like the Bengals have the best organization, you know, for example, and Burrow found his way through that. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I think that there are, but there are things that you can point to as well with Cincinnati. I think like, I really like Zach Taylor as a coach. I think you have, you have Lou Anna Rumo as the defensive coordinator, which took it. This is year is not a

great example of that, but I do think that in the past, that's been a unit that you can rely on. There are little bits and pieces and you got lucky with getting Jamar Chase then, who Joe Burrow is super familiar with and he gets to come along for the ride. And then you had, at least last year, you had a really good run game. The last couple of years, really in Cincinnati,

you had a really good run game to lean on as well. There were things that on the field still helped Joe Burrow. And that's not to take anything away from Joey B. I absolutely adore him. I think he's one of my favorite players in the league. I do think, though, that Caleb Williams coming in was expected to have such a short learning curve because he was the first overall pick and he was so talented. I was very intentional about not

calling him generational because I don't think that's fair to place on somebody who's never played an NFL snap. He was one of the most highly touted prospects in the last few years. That much is true. But again, there's a disconnect between what he was asked to do in college and then what he can get away with in the NFL. And you saw him in the first couple games realize that. And I do think that Caleb Williams has a very special quality to him to be able to fight through things. And that's why I do still think that this can be different for him. And it's not because the organization has done anything differently.

I do think it's because Caleb Williams is different. And you see that over and over again. And you've seen it this season, where even in that Washington game, the fail-marry game, three quarters were absolutely dismal, awful. Caleb Williams did not get anything going. He looked terrible. He was taking forever to make decisions.

The offensive line wasn't helping him out. They had no run game to speak of, all of these things. And then the fourth quarter comes around, and somehow Caleb Williams pushes through, has a nearly perfect quarter and gets the Bears with a lead with 25 seconds left in the game. If it's not for that prayer and the miracle of that Hail Mary and things going wrong and his head coach making some questionable decisions about not taking a timeout beforehand, not pressuring beforehand, not making sure all of his players were paying attention to the play, then we're talking about a win there. And the trajectory after that probably looks a lot better. And then again, this last game against

Green Bay, you stop Green Bay, you have them turn it over on downs after that 60-yard play by Christian Watson. And you go down the field. Again, you make that crucial stop. Green Bay goes back, and then they score. Perfect. You've got the literal quintessential two-minute drill. You need just a field goal to win. Caleb Williams goes out. He gets sacked twice.

Start that drive. And then on third and 19, hits Roma Dunze, your other top 10 pick. And then on fourth and three, hits Roma Dunze again, gets you to exactly where you need to be as far as the range of Cairo Santos. And again, it's not Caleb Williams that's failing to get these wins, because then you don't take the extra time to maybe at least get the ball on the hash that Cairo Santos normally kicks from. You don't take the time. These are not issues from Caleb Williams. So you see the direct kind of effect that organizational dysfunction is having on Caleb. But the flip side of this and the silver lining of all of this is that you're also seeing Caleb Williams fight through it anyway

and come out the other side. And so that you do think that if these organizational failings, not only like not necessarily even stop, but if you do kind of get someone a little bit more competent making these decisions, that maybe this really does turn around for Caleb Williams for the organization if anybody can survive a first year head coach or his his first head coach being fired and getting another coach in there for his second year I do think it's Caleb Williams just given what we've seen already this season and the important thing is that he's going to have weapons he's going to have things to work with in the future. And I do agree that Ryan Poles has done a good job of building the roster. It was just some loyalty to his first head coach hiring. And we saw that here with O'Connell, maybe a little too much loyalty in 2022 to Ed Donatel that cost them in the playoffs. So that's a tough lesson

to learn. But I just think it's way too early to start calling anything on Caleb Williams. That's just the world we live in. Not that Fox Sports is responsible at all for any of this, but reactionary. You're going to get me in trouble, Matt. I want to get your sizing up of the NFC race and where you think the Vikings fit into this.

I would not blame you if you didn't rewatch and grind the tape of Vikings Jags. I hope they burned that tape and no one's ever watched it again. But Sam Darnold continues overall to have top 12 type of quarterback play. The defense remains at the top of the league. They have a much tougher schedule going to the next month. Where do you place them? Everyone's got the Lions at the top.

Where do you place them behind that? Yeah, I really do think that this is sustainable, given the fact that it goes back to something that I talked about a lot prior to the season even starting, which was Sam Darnold doesn't need to go out there and be a world beater with the talent that's on this team. And the fact that you have a defensive side of the ball that you can really rely on to limit the amount of points. Some of these last couple of wins against these AFC South teams have been tough. They haven't been easy to watch, but the Vikings are coming out on the right side

of it and they're fighting through certain things. And again, it's really that the offense hasn't scored as many points as you need them to, but the defense has limited points to where you're still winning these games anyway. So I really do think that that is a recipe for success when you're talking about going up against the better teams. Now, I'm not picking anybody over the Lions. I am not picking the Vikings to win over the Lions. There's the second time around, but have they played them yet? They've played them once. Lost by two points.

That's right. That was the two-point game. And then, yeah, I get confused with the Green Bay and then how that – well, anyway. I do expect the Lions to by far and away be the top seed in the NFC. I think they're the best team in the league right now. I think that the Vikings are very – I really do still believe that there are three playoff teams that are coming out of this division,

and I believe that the Minnesota Vikings are one of them. So I have to think that whether that's, you know, they're the first wildcard seed, the second wildcard seed, I don't really know, but I really expect the Vikings to get into the playoffs. And I really think that they have a shot to at least win one game. Again, given the fact that they can, they're so capable of playing complimentary football and you're not putting this all on Sam Darnold's shoulders.

They're a very well coached team. We just talked at length about how good Kevin O'Connell is. I try to talked at length about how good Kevin O'Connell is I try to talk at length about how good Kevin O'Connell is pretty much any chance I get because I don't think enough people are talking enough about how he is a true coach of the year candidate he should be especially after if you take into account what happened last season after Kirk Cousins went down I mean over and over again we're seeing just how well he is coaching this team and if they do win a playoff game I think that that's a real conversation that we need to have about how I think coach of the year is coming out of this division. Kevin O'Connell just happens to

have some competition when it comes to Matt LaFleur and what he was able to do in Jordan Love's absence on top of obviously Dan Campbell, who may be one of those CEO head coaches, but he's probably the best at it in the league right now. Would you change your take on the Vikings if they do not win this game? Because I think a lot of people will as far as them being a contender. Yeah, probably. Honestly, I don't know that I would change that they would get into the playoffs. I still think that that's not necessarily a lock, but I really think that even down the stretch, I still think that that's not necessarily a lock, but I really think that even down the stretch, like you're going to have like that, that's going to happen. But I don't know that I trust them as much to win a game in the playoffs when the

competition gets up there. I do. It's going to be interesting to see how much Thomas Brown is able to evolve because you, you have such a limited sample size on that. And I think a lot of people are talking about, well, now you know what he looks like as the Bears play caller. Do you though? Because when you're doing film study of a team getting in advance of playing them, it's usually at least a four game sample size that you're looking at because

that's when you can pick up on tendencies. That's when you can pick up on certain things. You can't do that yet with the Bears under Thomas Brown, the Bears offense under Thomas Brown. So I do still think that there's probably stuff that we haven't seen out of the Chicago Bears offense that's going to be shown against the Minnesota Vikings. But I also do trust these play callers to kind of adjust. And whether that means Minnesota maybe gets off to a slow start, kicks in in the second half, I think that's a very real possibility. I think I would pick the Bears to cover, but it's never easy.

Never, absolutely never in the NFC North, but especially when the Vikings go to Soldier Field. Carmen Vitale, great to have you back on the show. You just came out throwing heat today. I appreciate that. I'm glad that we could make a little bit of time to talk and we will absolutely do it again. Cause there's a lot more NFC North upon us.

There is, this is all so backloaded. I'm like, Oh, okay. This is like, that's like when the real season starting now. That's how it feels.

It feels like we just had a preseason in the middle of the year for the Vikings. And now it's, it's time to go. So Fox sports is where you can find you. Never, never controversial or reactionary on there. Always just great reporting from you.

No, I'm just kidding. In particular, truly, truly one of my favorites, but I appreciate you taking the time and we'll definitely do it soon. Sounds,