Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Star Tribune's Andrew Krammer and Jags reporter John Shipley dive deep on Vikings-Jags

Episode Date: November 8, 2024

Matthew Coller previews Vikings-Jaguars with Andrew Krammer and John Shipley Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here along with Andrew Kramer, the Star Tribune, for our hardcore breakdown of Vikings and Jacksonville Jaguars. And it has to start with the uncertain status of one Trevor Lawrence. Andrew, it seems that there's a good chance that Trevor Lawrence does not play, which then puts Mac Jones behind an offensive line with lots of backups. Hey, their left tackle is here, not there,

so that might be a problem for Mac Jones. Their receivers are banged up. Christian Kirk won't be playing, and, well, at least the Jaguars' defense can't cover everyone. Other than that, everything seems to be going totally fine in Jacksonville. Mrs. Lincoln loved the play. Other than that, boy. Yeah, and there's starting guards.

Cleveland and Scherf missed practice on Wednesday, so that's fun. Trevor Lawrence, I saw, even when he is playing, is rated as one of the most inaccurate passers over the last four weeks in the NFL, so that's also good. Yeah, I don't know where to really go with that because Mac Jones against Brian Flores, everybody who's trying to get on that early flight out of Jacksonville after the game, that is going to be a easy, smooth sailing trip because Flores has made Daniel Jones look really bad. Should he made CJ Stroud

look really bad in that week three win? We see him and this defense continuously dominate subpar opponents and i think there's little reason to think that's not going to continue in jacksonville so before the news that lawrence might not play and it's not a hundred percent it was unlikely so who knows but it sounds like he's not before that i was thinking you know this jaguars team is not good but they have more talent than their record. And anytime that's the case with a team, I think, you know, they could always surprise you. And they've been in a lot of games and Trevor Lawrence is talented. So you always have to be really concerned about that. Now with Mac Jones, I don't think that anything could be a trap game for the

Vikings because they're a team that no one expected to be this good. They've lost a couple games on the year, but it feels much more like one of those. You better not. You just better not. This isn't like losing to Matt Moore when Matt Moore is playing for the Chiefs. That's an amazing Chiefs team. Would this have been like losing to David Blau a couple years ago? I know they won the game a couple years ago but it feels that much of a mismatch between the Vikings and the Jaguars so I guess that's where

we should start is what should the Vikings be worried about with the Jaguars I think they should be worried about a passing game that when they are at their best can produce Trevor Lawrence has had a couple near, I think, one 300-yard game than one near 300-yard game. Evan Ingram coming back for this passing attack has been huge for them as a guy that they will often go to. I just don't think this Jaguars team is one that is going to consistently put together drives, nor are they explosive enough to overcome their lack of consistency of putting together drives against the Vikings. So, uh, but if they put it all together and if it looks at its best, it is Trevor Lawrence being accurate, decisive, running Doug Peterson's offense in a way that wasn't too

dissimilar from how Nick Foles ran it as a distributor, as somebody who could hand off to tank Bigsby and let him run the ball. Uh, if they can generate any kind of rushing attack with no offensive line, which we probably think they're not going to be able to do because this Vikings defense has been pretty good at stopping the run as they showed against Jonathan Taylor. I just think that that is the path for Jacksonville. It's just hard to see them achieving all of these things considering how bad they've collectively played. And you pointed out before the podcast, yeah, it's one score games when you look at their schedule,

but they were down, what, three scores against Philadelphia and just happened to claw back in garbage time because of how oddly Nick Sirianni seemed to manage that game. So I just think they have been pretty bad. Yes, they brought Green Bay to the ropes earlier in the season. So they can jump up and give you a game. And so if they do give you a game, it's got to be Lawrence playing in my opinion, and it's got to be him having one of his best games. Right. If Trevor Lawrence is in the lineup, then there's always

a chance that he gets hot and plays well. It's not like he's never played well in his career. He is. How would you even define what trevor lawrence has been in his career because when other quarterbacks when they come in the league they get a lot of time from everybody okay we understand you're a rookie there's going to be rookie moments even in a over reactionary league like no one's calling caleb williams a bust for example or bo nicks even where he's got his ups and downs this year but Lawrence has gotten more and more and more time from everyone well look you were coached by Urban Meyer so you get like a four year and he had the stretch where he won a bunch of games last year

then got hurt he had the playoff game that was really good came very close to winning another one and then this year it's not terrible I was just peeking at his PFF grades, his traditional statistics. They're not horrendous. They're not Jimmy Clawson or something, but they also don't wow you in any way. And I just don't even know what to make of this because there's so much with that organization that is unimpressive and the roster that's unimpressive, but we also can't just blame everybody else for everything when it comes to Trevor Lawrence right no we can't and I think people they drafted him number one overall at Clemson he looked like that and he was

called the Andrew Luck generational once-in-a-lifetime prospect which you can't say that every year and he obviously is not that he is more like a Dak Prescott to me. When you say not terrible, that's kind of what I think of in terms of quarterback. Who's the 15th best quarterback? I think it's kind of Dak Prescott right there in the middle, whether 10th or 15th, whatever you want to call it. Pretty average and bang on where it's just some days he'll give you a good performance, some streaks he'll give you a good performance. But he's also that guy that has not been consistent. He's also been consistently, I think, let down by a roster and Trent Baalke with the Jaguars that how much does Baalke really consider, how much does he deserve to keep that

job considering that we've seen them blow draft picks, we've seen them blow free agent signings, we see them trade for and pay Ezra Cleveland, which people here in the Vikings building did not want to do, and we see them acquire Calvin Ridley, who proceeds to have a couple of big games, but drop a bunch of passes. And they finally get him help with Brian Thomas and Christian Kirk, but then Doug Peterson doesn't scheme up seemingly a way to funnel targets to those guys consistently in a way that it seemed like he could do in Philadelphia. That's the confusing part with me and Trevor Lawrence is I think he is a average enigmatic player inconsistent,

but theoretically you should have a good coach and a good coaching staff because what we've seen Doug Peterson do in Philadelphia makes me think it's more of a roster construction problem. And Doug Peterson seems to agree because after one of their losses to the bears earlier this year, Peterson said, we have a culture problem. Yeah. I think they have a talent problem is all of it the main thing around trevor lawrence and he's not going to be like patrick holmes and make people significantly better i also think that he

just has fatal flaws uh inconsistency is a fatal flaw for a quarterback just because you have a monster arm and you can make some wowing plays it's really the down to down consistency that he lacks he's good for and i'm expecting it in this game two or three times a game throwing a ball so baffling to the wrong place making a decision way too early not seeing a defense that turns into a turnover it happens constantly to him he does take sacks. I don't think that he uses his mobility nearly as much as I expected. When I saw him in college, I thought he was going to be really a dynamic running quarterback. He hasn't really been that. He's

not very accurate, as you mentioned. It's just things have not ever really materialized. I think Dak Prescott's a lot better than him, but see what you're saying maybe under the same circumstances if he had had the offensive lines the coaching the receiver cd lamb and that he would have similar numbers but it's a guy that you're not terrified of but you know is capable of potentially having one of his big games against you uh if mac jones plays though not a whole lot to be terrified of here he did play well against the 2022 vikings you and i also threw for 300 in games against ed donatel's defense it was great everyone was wide open it was really easy i was never pressured um there was no blitzing i think that's probably a different mac jones under these circumstances

and i also think to your point that it's not like there, anybody who would be coming in for Trevor Lawrence or Trevor Lawrence has coaching that is dialing up an easy offense and easy button offense. That's tricking everybody. I think that Doug Peterson just kept running all the same stuff from Philly and never advanced to what a lot of the things that are happening around the league to get wide receivers open. It just kind of feels that way. Or wasn't aligned with the front office that didn't realize you need to build a good offensive

line to run your kind of run heavy RPO system that Peterson did in Philadelphia when they had one of the best offensive lines. And that continued when Peterson left and got fired. So yeah, it seemed like the misalignment there from Jacksonville. You mentioned Trevor Lawrence's mobility. I think as a rookie, he had like 700 rushing yards. Maybe it's the second year in the NFL. He showed that he can do it. It just seems like in this offense, they don't want to lean into it.

I don't know if that's the injury history, the health, having just paid him $55 million a year. There's just a lot of questionable decisions. Then again, misalignment of how this team is built in Jacksonville. And's just a lot of questionable decisions. Again, misalignment of how this team is built in Jacksonville. Now they're just banged up. They trade their left tackle. Christian Kirk's on IR. I think Gabe Davis missed the last week. We mentioned both their starting guards mispracticed this week to injuries. It might be Mac Jones. ETN is a guy who's totally disappeared we haven't even mentioned him somebody who last year was one of the best running backs dual threats in football this year has not

been the same guy he's dealt with a shoulder injury that he's tried to play through they've given a minimal work through that and tank bigsby as a rookie has been good at what they've asked him to do but seems like it's a pretty limited role for him in terms of just running on first and second down so um i not much scares you and if it's mac jones you saw him look decent at times in new england you'd think boy going back to that 2021 draft he might have been a good fit in san francisco in terms of what he can do in terms of being the operational guy um getting the ball to where it needs to be in progression and rhythm but he was just traded to Jacksonville was it middle of last year uh it was uh this offseason oh was it this okay so he hasn't

been there very very long I don't think he's played a game for them this will be the first game if that's the case he plays for them no I don't imagine this is something where you need to be too worried about Mac Jones nor compare that to that 2022 game I feel about Mac Jones, nor compare that to that 2022 game. I feel like Mac Jones shows up somewhere and wins 10 games for a team someday. But why do you think that? Well, because he did show that he can do it in his first year when they actually had some weapons around him and Josh McDaniels, who's not a good head coach, but is a good offensive coordinator. And then the wheels just came off there.

Belichick lost his marbles and they lost McDaniels briefly to the Vegas Raiders. And then they got him no weapons. They got him no line. It was just a total calamity. And we really saw how much Tom Brady was driving the bus there. But I think when somebody at least shows it, we talked about this with Darnold even going into this season. If you can even have a single season or even a stretch where you look like you can play, then probably

under San Francisco's circumstances or Minnesota's Mac Jones would have been good at this because he's not a joker, but where, what he's taking over here for Trevor Lawrence, if Lawrence can only have an 87 quarterback rating, it's going to be pretty hard, I think, for Mack Jones to move against this Flores defense. Was your confidence in the defense fully restored after they just took an absolute sledgehammer to the Indianapolis Colts? No, because there were still open receivers. There were still guys running in the middle of the field. There were just missed passes. There was one that early in that game, Flacco fired into the dirt to uh Doolin I think one of their wide receivers

it was just wide open on a little kind of easy post route from the outside against zone coverage I think the Vikings Achilles heel on defense will always be that they they can't play as much man coverage as they wanted to they're an older secondary they don't have Makai Blackman who would have been that young guy chasing everybody around with Byron Murphy. They had to rely on Stephon Gilmore, who they signed mid-August after they put together all those plans of playing a ton of man coverage. If you can protect, and if you have wide receivers who can get open and quarterbacks who can dissect post-snap coverages, you're going to lose. Joe Flacco could dissect it sometimes. He couldn't throw the ball half the time. He looked pretty bad. And you mentioned, I think going into that game,

this guy's only really had one good game this year after that, you know, miraculous Cleveland run with Amari Cooper at the end of last year. So you kind of called it that he wasn't going to look that great or might not. And he didn't. And so to me, you have to kind of take this with a grain of salt. They didn't blitz a lot. They leaned on their four-man rush. They bet Flacco couldn't pick them apart and he couldn't. When you face a quarterback eventually, whether it's Kyler Murray, Kirk Cousins, Goff and Love again down the road, I still have concerns about if a team dissects and knows your blitzes enough and can pick them up in protection. And you have a quarterback who can either be mobile enough or smart enough in Stafford's case to just pick things apart.

It's going to be hard for you because Detroit's still going to have that offensive line. Jordan Love, if healthy, still going to be incredibly mobile and can do in the second half what he did against you back in September. So long story short, man, no, I don't have a ton of concerns eased. I just think this defense is still great enough to beat the bad teams they will go on a run here probably that ends with them

looking pretty good against caleb williams at the end of this month and we'll be talking about oh they're back top five but then it's kyler murray and then it's kirk cousins and then it's that run i'm talking about but isn't that always nfl defenses like how many how many no because how many defenses in the league ever are just destroying the good teams? No, not destroying. That's just it. So yeah, maybe I should measure my comments a little bit. Like they are good enough to compete with Jared Goff and the rent and the lions, but that game might turn into more of a shootout because look, all these generational offenses that are coming in here or quarterbacks in the afc's case

you can't really put a lid on them like you're saying um but i yeah i think when you talk top five defense though like we thought when they were five and oh i don't know if they're quite there i would just like to pick apart every team's schedule and see like the top five defenses do that for kansas city though they're probably the best defense in the league I mean I bet you whoever they go up against it's been pretty good yeah I mean they almost lost to Baker the other night I mean that's what I mean is like Baker Mayfield is kind of thrown all over the place this year they gave up some yards it's going to happen uh with the Rams game that was a bad performance and that's as bad as they're going to be uh that was a great game plan on four days rest I'm not saying that they're better as they're going to be uh that was a great game plan on

four days rest i'm not saying that they're better than they looked against the lions and rams the achilles heels are the achilles heels and we know what they are that they don't have an aaron donald to just destroy on the inside they don't even have a tom johnson just to destroy on the inside they don't have a young corner who can run they don't have a young corner who can run. They don't have a young corner who can run. Other than Byron. Those routes that come across the middle of the field, they're going to work. I do think that Cashman coming back, I think he is this week,

that he was shutting a lot of those down. He was identifying those, and he was getting back on them and making plays where we haven't seen. There's been too much on Josh Metellus' play, I think, the last few weeks. Too much on Ivan Pace's play the last few weeks. Too much on Ivan Pace's play the last few weeks. They are a different team when Cashman is in there.

When both of their bad performances were without, I think, their best player on defense, maybe it's a little bit different. I just think that we always do this when we talk about, well, this team's a top five defense, but Oh, they gave up yards to good offenses. That's like the world we live in. Uh, but when will we see them tested again? I mean, I, it's a long time. It's like Arizona. Yeah. Yeah. December, December is the next time they'll get tested. It's not going to be this week. No. So I, but I was buying one of the things, okay. Here's another thing too. Last week, we talked about the adjustments that needed to be made how much can they fix that was the theme of our show how much did they fix is now

my question for you yeah well all the talk about the offense has been about their pre-snap penalties it's been about their operational stuff with sam darnold who clearly kevin o'connell felt like we can clean up the penalties we can make this whole thing more efficient it doesn't all need to be on Sam making the right reads all the time or forcing the ball downfield exactly when it needs to be. They can just stop shooting themselves in the foot. And yeah, it turns out if you do that, it looks pretty good. Their scoring drives did not involve many offensive penalties. I believe they only had two the whole game against the Colts.

So that allowed them to keep moving, give it to Aaron Jones on first down, not feel like you got to throw on first and 20 and whatever. I think that part worked, streamlining the offense, giving them what seemed like either shorter play calls or fewer play calls in the huddle to run at the line of scrimmage. That seemed to work with Sam. That's good coaching. That shows you that what they were asking, and Wes Phillips kind of alluded to this when he said, at some point we can just keep asking these guys to do the same thing and at some point you got to look in the mirror and be like okay maybe we need to change this so credit the Vikings staff for realizing that with Sam Darnold weren't we can't totally treat this

guy like Kirk Cousins can't give him all of that so I think that part has been uh fixed I still want to know about the short yardage run game, the red zone run game, because this game turned out the way it did against the Colts, or at least felt that way in the second half, because Sam Darnold threw the hell out of the ball in the red zone. Whenever they do that, they win. He did that against the Packers. He did that against the Texans. If you're not having to settle for field goals and Sam Darnold's throwing darts in the end zone, that's when they're at their best. What we have seen is that they cannot run the ball on those short yardage spots, or even when it gets backed up within goal to go scenarios. So I don't think that part's fixed. And when it comes

to the offense, I want to know when you get inside the 20, is it still going to be all on Sam Darnold? Because this guy is doing more than just about any quarterback inside the twenties. I mean, I think that Sam Darnold is going to continue to have to do a lot. They just don't have an offensive line that gets a lot of push there. And they also don't seem to have any trickeration, any misdirection. And I don't mean throwing the ball with Jefferson in the red zone. I just mean getting the defense moving one way and going the other we just don't see a lot of that in the run game their best answer was to try to run a jet sweep with jaylen nailer and that didn't work we saw one work with addison and that was about it yeah i think one did work with nailer against someone was at a fourth down call against the texans but that worked and also maybe the spot was bad in green Bay. The point is you just can't

run jet sweeps all the time on fourth and one, they have to have someone they trust to run behind. And if there was going to be that person, it was going to be 71, but instead he's out for the season. I don't think Cam Robinson is that guy that you're saying, well, run behind him. Maybe you could put CJ ham and Josh Oliver in, but we just, I mean, even in terms of a formational creativity for running the ball, we never see it. If they're going to run, they're going to run out of a, it's going to be like a single back and he's going to run one of two, two ways. And Aaron Jones has to be great all the time. But I think down in the red zone, it's not about the running back as much as it is the line so and and the

strategy so i don't think that's going to change uh as far as what's on sam darnold's shoulders it was interesting because i felt like it went both ways there was more on his shoulders in terms of volume like get the offense moving early passes which i wanted to see more of but there was less hey why don't you send six guys in motion and check to three different things i thought justin jefferson nailed it i justin jefferson's football iq understanding vision is amazing and i got the sense that jefferson said to o'connell cut the stuff let me go beat a dude let jordan go beat a dude let hockinson go beat a dude and if they keep doing that i think that the offense is going to be better than it was and

it's going to operate smoother and darnold is going to get in rhythm and be more comfortable and not have these these big slowdowns because a delay of game isn't just bad for your drive it's like demoralizing frustrating it just halts what you're doing so i think jefferson played a big role in that change and it worked really well well and this offense is so talented you what's the saying call players not plays right and that's the whole thing like don't overthink this don't ask them to do so much where you're trying to out scheme the defense when justin jefferson or jordan add Addison or TJ Hawkinson or Aaron Jones can one-on-one beat whoever's across from them make it simpler um and it seemed to be that way

too just whether it was the route concepts Justin was getting targeted on um or even just the basic little fade on the boundary that they threw up to him for 41 yards when he gets single coverage and is like oh thank you Jesus he runs up there and gets it like that's the kind of simple stuff they can do and frankly when I think back to Justin's career, that's kind of what they hit on with Kirk early on. Before Justin was in these graduate studies, 2.0, whatever, of offense with Kevin O'Connell, it was Clint Kubiak just doing slot fades. Just simple stuff that Justin was just dominating on. And we can see how easy that can be for a quarterback. And I think that can help Sam, help clear his mind as they like to talk about.

So Jefferson leads the league in receiving again, not shocking. Sometimes I think that people like solving problems with football. Me, you, it's like what we do here. We talk about, well, what's not working for the team? How might they fix it? That's kind of the game and i think sometimes we forgot forget to hit the emergency brake pull it to a halt and just say do you see what justin jefferson's doing right now like i don't want us ever to take for granted the absolute absurdity of the greatest receiver in the game right now establishing himself as a clear-cut hall of famer

but not only that the contract gets done early there's no drama with that it was fake invented nonsense garbage drama from the internet but not real drama with actual justin jefferson i thought they're going to trade him uh yeah well a lot of people for bleak neighbors a lot of people and their ai bots wrote articles jefferson should be traded to the arizona cardinals or something whatever anyway he wasn't and he's just being the goat again so i just don't ever want to like lose that part of it of we are getting to see sheer greatness and there was this whole thing of well is jefferson going to be able to do it without Kirk and all that?

Well, I think we got our answer. And as we look forward here, and it's so relevant to the McCarthy discussion, which is around the corner and Darnold, this guy's going to do it without anybody. He is going to be able to elevate anyone and everyone who throws that pigskin in his general direction. Yeah, everybody wants to talk about the coach quarterback pairing. And yes, that's very important, obviously. But it seems like O'Connell and Jefferson can be just as great as the coach and Kirk Cousins or whatever, because, yeah, Jefferson can elevate, transcend.

This guy is so, whether you think back to all the memories and big catches he's had, there's just been so many incredible moments where he's lifted the team in big spots, just throw me the ball. And I think that's why, you know, when you talk about fourth and eight and Kirk Cousins, that's why it roils them so much, because that was the biggest spot of that 13 and four season. And the ball did not go his way. And that's the year when he lifted them in so many of those one score games. So yeah, I think it's fun to take a step back and remember why we're doing this, why we watch games, why we love football.

It's because of players like him. It's because of growing up and remembering whomever it was that you used to cheer on as a kid. These are the types of players that make those memories and create those fandoms. I have sensed it. And maybe just because it's the internet but there's there is a a cynicism about vikings fans that runs very deep from the things that have happened to them throughout the years and the lack of a championship that sometimes goes to a point where we do lose perspective i think on what you are able to watch here and and also maybe just take it for granted because they had moss yeah carter yeah and then

digs and theeland come in as like who couldn't be a good wide receiver here? But I think at the end of the day, we're talking about Justin Jefferson and Randy Moss maybe even, or Jefferson, the fact that he came along with no drama ahead of Randy Moss for the greatest receiver in this franchise's history, which is wild because Moss is like top five ever. No, but yeah, Justin is on trajectory to surpass every Moss record. He's on track to have the most yardage through a player's first five seasons beating Moss in the franchise record

and he'll have the NFL record too for that eventually this year you're absolutely right um and I think the drama and the fact that the longevity of Jefferson seems to be such that why would they ever move on from him he's not I don't think Justin's ever going to be fighting with his coach and then complaining about the catering and all the things that Randy Moss did and getting traded and then coming back and then thanking Bill Belichick at a New England press conference while you're wearing Vikings gear. It's just, it's incredible. It's incredible.

So I do not think Justin's going to have that. You're right too. Look at the Jamar Chase situation and the Brown, the Cincinnati Brown family is not without blame here. And frankly frankly they should probably be the first culprits to blame but jamar chase is having a heck of a time over there just with that entire organization does not seem to be in lockstep with what they're doing um so here jefferson the vikings they're all uh not everything is always kumbaya but with him it certainly is uh one last thing on jefferson what if you had to pick one thing about him that is the cause of this and i know it's the accumulation of a thousand

things and brilliance is always that right it's natural it's training it's effort it's care it's personality all those things we know that from watching sports what what if you were to rank all the traits that have resulted in justin jefferson being this and also being able to to get on the same page with sam darnold quickly and and still do what he's doing what what is it yeah you're right there's there's so many and i mean the physical attributes you could start from everywhere um you know the hands the eyes the way he can bend and routes um just the flexibility of his entire body but i would say it's his brain i would say it's the mental makeup of who you are as a human being because that's what separates daniel hunter from i don't know name any other player who's built like that because there are

a lot of them i mean not everybody's built quite like Adonis, but a lot of people are built 6'5", long arms, talented. That's why they get drafted early, and then a lot of them flame out. And what makes you different is how you approach the game. What makes you different is your daily habits, your intellect about the game. You just mentioned multiple times Jefferson's football IQ and how he's got thoughts that are grander than the wide receiver position. He's got thoughts about what the quarterback should be doing.

He understands how all of this affects him. That's kind of stuff that you don't see from every great wide receiver. And every great wide receiver or player doesn't want that involvement. There are a lot of guys who just want to do their role. Just leave me over here. I don't need to be the guy who fixes everything. I just want to do my thing. Justin seems to not only embrace that,

but have a good working knowledge that can help. And O'Connell likes to cheekily smirk and like sometimes kind of push them off and say, what was that quote he had last year? It was like, well, show me a good play for third and 15 or something like that when Jefferson's talking about getting the ball out fast. So they'll go back and forth but i think that relationship is critical to growing a young player's mental curiosity and that is one of the best things about justin and it all goes back to um his obviously his upbringing uh under jordan and in a football kind of culture and life but it also goes back to the fact this guy doesn't do anything but football there's no nothing but video games

football sleeping in there's some issues early on with him being late for meetings or whatever but he's a team captain now he seems to have matured and embraced his leadership roles now and kind of evolved in the way that you could only hope a player like that could evolve and his relatively clean off field stuff um i don't want to call it LeBron like as LeBron's is in his own class. Um, but it's, it's pretty clean in terms of just, um, you know, not being a guy that they have to worry that much about. I think, uh, all of that is a hundred percent correct. Uh, his single track mind. But I think if I were to pinpoint the one thing, it's his joy for all of this. It reminds me of Steph Curry. It's Steph Curry like in that Steph Curry before he goes into the locker room,

shoots a three from the hallway to see if he can make it, that he never tires of this. He never tires of how much he loves football. We see him out there at practice. He is throwing around the ball. The other day we were standing there i probably mentioned it just how strong his arm is and he's catching one-handed balls and he's doing back tap toe taps practice is over he's just messing around with his teammates

playing with a football i mean when he got hurt he carried around a football for practice that entire time i've never seen a player do that before because why would you? And yet I think he just has so much joy for every single part of it for some influencer. Sorry, I don't remember your name, did a thing trying to do his workout and got absolutely smoked of course by, by Jefferson, but he loves his workout. He loves the film. He loves watching. I think he watches tape with his brother of practice and breaks it down. There's just a nonstop joy for this that I've talked about Aaron Rogers before and how miserable he looks playing football. That's another thing for fans never to take for granted is how much fun this gentleman has playing this game. And I think that's number one because he never gets worn out, never gets tired, wanted to sign the contract to get back on the field.

I believe he missed four OTA practices in total from his contract. So I think that that's at the center of it. Let me just circle back to Vikings and Jaguars. Give me, I know, but just you have to win. like there's no real analysis here's win the game uh but give me give me some factors give me some x factors and don't forget that there's a new kicker oh my gosh yeah this if this is a game though to introduce your new kicker i think it might be this game preferably it might be at home but i just i think these afc south teams they've played in the order of which they play

them. I think they'd get progressively worse. I maybe I'm giving the Titans not enough credit. Maybe they're a little better than the Jaguars, but, um, these are the two worst teams in the division, the Jags and Titans.

I think the only factors are again, if, if the Jags can somehow run the football, if tank Bigsby somehow has a day, Travis ETN somehow recaptures his Clemson in 2023 form last year with the Jaguars. That's their path to being relevant, to staying on the field, to keeping Justin Jefferson on the sideline. And if they can somehow score touchdowns and then make this a close game to where you have to worry about your kicker, that is where they could win. The Vikings, though, they just need to do the exact same themselves. They need to hand the

ball off to Aaron Jones. They need to control the clock. They need to be, as Sam Darnold's been, incredibly efficient, finish in the red zone. Just give that new kicker, John Parker Romo, who goes by Parker, by the way, not John, just give him some extra points. This is his first game, which is wild to me. They brought in five kickers for a tryout. They decided to sign him because he had been here before. He's got familiarity with the new long snapper they brought in. They were together in Detroit.

So they feel like that is going to help them kind of coalesce quickly. But this is very hard for them to redo the entire field goal operation or two thirds of it mid season and to go on the road to doing so with a kid who's making his first ever NFL debut game here. So yeah, that, that is certainly going to be something that the Vikings want to build a lead and not have to worry about. I was always told, don't trust people with three names. So that's good. He the right choice parker by going by parker uh heinz allen is a bit of a concern i think over with jacksonville because if there's one thing that could take it apart against indianapolis they had multiple turnovers that

did not ruin them because joe flacco could not complete a pass that is not likely to be as bad as far as the passing game. I mean, it could be with Mac Jones, but Flacco was in a really bad way there. And the Vikings controlled the ball so much that the defense didn't have to do a heck of a lot. So, but I do think that with an edge rusher like that, it's no longer, we just didn't even talk about edge rushers on the show. It was like, well, yeah, they got Brian Burns, but you know,'s he gonna do against christian derisaw and that was a pretty good bet all year long well they've got this guy but you know he's great and whatever will anderson it'll be fine let's talk about the other parts but now we do have to talk about that when the other team has an edge rusher it could be dangerous and i still don think that Darnold is ever going to get rid of the ball

quickly. And I look, when I look back at the film this week, I had so many moments of dude, you should throw. Oh, what a throw. And I think even as an interception, of course is terrible, but you could see why he believes in his arm. He was waiting on one play for TJ Hockinson to get behind a defender. DeForest Buckner jumps up in his face all six foot seven and he just wings it kind of three quarters sidearm around him and hits Hawkinson for a long game you go well that holding on to the ball allows guys to get open and you kind of have to do it but they have to protect because it can result in some big mistakes yeah and Sam has to be willing to throw while somebody's barreling down on him. I think that is something he's kind of learned as he's gone along

in his whole NFL career because Kirk was so good at that. Kirk knew part of this is Kirk knew he couldn't run. This is my only outlet. And he developed it over time of knowing when do I have time to get this ball out? When do I have time to throw to that target? And I think Darnold can run and he can eject backward out of the pocket as he's been wanting to do. And I think that has been something where you've seen him kind of learn and evolve with that. And I'm glad you brought up the edge rushers because Cam Robinson facing his former team, who's going to know him very well and know as guys who practiced against him throughout training camp for all these years, they're going to know what works against him. They're going to know what schemes he gets either confused by or is

vulnerable to. I do think that is a factor here where if the Vikings get too confident in coming off this last game, it might not look so smooth in that second game against an opponent who is going to know him very well. What is your score prediction? I know what your team prediction is going to be, but how about a score?

I think this one is going to be a little lower scoring than maybe Vikings fans want, but I think it ends up being something like 24 to 13. I do think it's a multiple score win. I've been wrong before, but I don't have a ton of confidence in their opponent going into this game. I think Lawrence isn't going to play, it seems like. If it's Mack Jones, that could be a nightmare. We could be talking about another Vikings defensive touchdown, which would be their fourth in nine games. I was thinking, because it does seem to be trending toward Mac Jones, 27 to 10, probably. I think they'll be able to move the ball. The defense is one of the worst in the entire league. And the fact is the Vikings have played a lot of good defenses so far this year. Indianapolis is a much better defense than Jacksonville, and they move the ball on them.

So we shall see how it goes. If they don't win, then the conversations will be very different on this here show next week. So we'll see what happens. I will be in Jacksonville doing the postgame show with Dane Mizutani. And then I got to fly out right after. So we'll see how that goes. But thanks, everybody, for watching all week long. And we will catch you next time. Football.

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for us welcome back to the show john shipley of jaguars on si for a long time this show's go-to guy with all things jaguars which surprisingly comes up a lot. John, welcome back to the show, my friend. Hey, thanks for having me, man. I appreciate you. I didn't even really think about that until now. They've done a lot of business together. I remember us talking about Ngakwe way back in the day. And what a trade that was for the Minnesota Vikings, Yannick Ngakwe.

Well, why don't we talk about the trade first, and then we will get into this compelling football game. I don't know why this wasn't flexed like the Vikings was last week against the Colts. About Cam Robinson, I sent you a message after the Vikings acquired Cam Robinson, and you said, I've wrote more articles about this guy than probably anybody else with your time covering the Jaguars. So explain that because he comes in, does a good job for the Vikings right away on short notice.

They only need him to be here for nine more football games to do a good job at left tackle. But why did you have to write so much about Cam Robinson over the years? So Cam really had an interesting career trajectory with the Jaguars. It, you know, came to 2021, his rookie contract was up and a lot of people assumed the Jaguars would be moving on from him acquiring,

you know, a left tackle in 2021 draft after I picked Trevor Lawrence, of course, and just got moving from there. And then they kind of surprisingly franchise tagged him, and then they took a left tackle in the second round of the draft and walked a little. So the natural assumption is you franchise tag a guy

and pick a guy in the second round. Okay, that veteran will play out that year, and then the next year you turn to the second round guy. Then they franchise tagged Cam again next year, and then shortly after gave him a new long-term deal to the point where there was a lot of, you know, is Walker Little going to be the left tackle moving forward? Is Cam Robinson going to be the left tackle moving forward? And Jaguars always turn to Cam Robinson.

Like, he always got the nod. But there would be stretches where he didn't play. He had a knee injury at the end of 2002 that led to a little playing like the last five or six games at regular season and starting to play. You know, he got 2023 season for the first four games of the year that led to walk a little playing left tackle. And then once Cam came back, little moved inside the guard. And it was just a lot of like a revolving door at left tackle. So that was the biggest thing.

And then, of course, you know, this trade happens. And, you know, they're just the situation and context around the trade. It didn't feel like, you know, just a team, you know, shopping a veteran player for picks. You know, it was very clearly, you know, his last game as a Jaguar. He didn't play a snap in. But the Jaguar sideline is right below the press box. And it very clearly was, there were some tension between him and the coaching staff because that last

game, you know, he was very disconnected from the team. Like the offense would be on the field and the off, the offensive backups would all be on the sidelines. Just guess you have to go in. And then you go away like, like getting us us like you saw Doug Peterson and offensive line coach Phil Rauscher have animated conversations with them. Something I hadn't really seen, but like, you know, Doug Peterson is chirping at him while they're on offense.

You know, just things I hadn't really seen before. But if you also look at it from Cam's side, he, you know, got I think five plays into his last start with the Jaguars. He had to leave the game due to concussion symptoms. The whole rest of the week, the next week, he's in the concussion protocol. It doesn't get cleared until Saturday. I think if you're Cam Robinson, you're assuming, okay, once I got cleared from the concussion protocol, I'm probably starting.

Whereas the Jaguars more or less saw it as a chance that, okay, Cam might be unavailable. It's time to see what we have and walk a little. So it just seemed like the team was wanting one thing. Cam Robinson is obviously a longtime starter was expecting another thing. And it just led to them, you know, parting ways. As far as him as a player, it seems like after a rocky start to his career that he had kind of come into his own and mostly solidified

himself and I'm I am admittedly going off of the PFF grades for him that have been pretty solid though over the last few years in terms of pass protection but maybe not toward the top of the league or even average when it came to the run blocking game. Is that the holdup or is it the inconsistency, the injuries for them? Because I guess the question is when you have a left tackle who is quality, why don't you want to extend that left tackle? Yeah, the injuries are definitely one thing. You know, for as solid as Robinson and consistent as he had been for the Jaguars, he did have a decent amount of injuries.

He was injured at the end of 2021 that led to Little playing the last few games, injured in 2022 at the end of the year, suspended 2023. He had an ACL injury in 2018. He's kind of been through the ringer in terms of injuries. But when he does play, like you said, very consistent in pass pro. He had like a rough start to this season like his first three weeks are pretty pretty brutal him and Anton Harrison but after that he really turned it around was really good in his last month with the Jaguars

overall you know he's not like you know an all pro or even maybe pro bowl left tackle but he's a very solid left tackle who you can put out there on an island and you're not necessarily worried. And for the Vikings, that has to be a godsend, losing Christian Derusaw. Normally guys like Cam Robinson aren't available for that reason. There aren't 32 starting caliber left tackles in the NFL, and he is certainly one of them. I do think run blocking is probably the biggest weakness to his game, and run blocking is also talking to people without the Jaguars building.

That was another factor in Walker Little kind of getting the nod against the Packers. Walker Little has been a better run blocker for them. And Cam's kind of a unique player in the sense that he's known for like his physicality and his toughness and he's willing to mix it up. But it translates more to pass protection than does run blocking. You know, he's a good run blocker in space, like, you know, on screens and climbing to the second level. But just in terms of, you know, resetting the line of scrimmage and getting movement in the run game, that's never really been his game. Yeah, I noticed just watching against the Colts that and I'm used to watching Christian Dersaw explode of his stance, like he's a wide receiver or something when he's going forward. I mean, there's no replacing Christian D'Arcy left tackle. Uh, there's no athlete like him outside of Trent Williams and

a couple of the guys, the league, there's not an explosion in Cam Robinson's game when it comes to the running, but he was still big enough and strong enough to turn a few guys, create a few holes and Aaron Jones is your running back. So he's able to find even the smallest crease and get extra yardage. I don't think it'll hurt as much if, uh, because they have a very good running back. If they were totally reliant on the blocking, then maybe it would be a little different, but you know, John, it's funny this trade. I don't think it's crazy to say it saved the Vikings season because Sam Darnold holds onto the ball a lot. They need that left tackle out on an island

to give help to the other weaker parts of this offensive line. And there are just very few left tackles that are available at the trade deadline. And I was going to ask about that as well with the Jaguars because, of course, I was looking over the roster going, oh, maybe they'll trade for a couple more Jaguars. I don't know. The deadline was pretty quiet though for Jacksonville.

They sell off Robinson, but not other parts. What do you think went into that strategy of not moving on? Because of course the Jags weren't the only team. There were quite a few teams that had cases as sellers that didn't decide to sell yeah absolutely so you know you said the Jaguars had traded Robinson a week before trade deadline he was probably so I do some of my stories like a day in advance like I'll write a story for Tuesday that's going to publish on Wednesday just give myself some be the room the morning before Robinson got traded, but the morning of the day he got traded. I wrote an article

saying Cam Robinson has the most trade value of anybody on the Jaguars. I'd be pretty surprised if he's not traded because all the reasons we've talked about starting left tackle Walker Littles there and then he gets traded that night and it's like that tweet where he's like he just tweeted out the story I've been working on for years.

He was definitely their most tradable piece. They had also traded Roy Robinson Harris to the Seahawks about three weeks ago. So they had traded off some pieces before the deadline. I don't know. Adam Schefter came out with that report that Christian Kirk very possibly could have been traded to the Pittsburgh Steelers if he had not gone down with a collarbone injury against the Packers. I think that Packers game impacted, you know, maybe the one other guy who had a lot of trade value

who was right guard Brandon Sheriff. He's not like the Brandon Sheriff of like 2015, obviously. You know, he's not one of the elite guards in football, but he's had a really solid season this year, probably his best year with the Jaguars. And it would have made sense for teams that needed plug-in and play offensive line help you know for him to be available but in the same game christian kirk breaks his collarbone they see ezra cleveland suffer a high ankle sprain now he's

out for a week so they lose one guard then against the eagles a few days before the shred deadline their backup guard cooper hodges has a lower leg injury that you know he gets carted off the field he's out for the year so if they would have traded Brandon Sheriff they would have been down their top three guards from week one and I don't think any team even you know at two and seven is willing to put their quarterback behind that so I think there was a lot of circumstances that impacted whether or not some guys did or didn't get traded and then you know just from speaking to people there wasn't really a market on some of their other pieces that people thought would get traded. There wasn't a lot of interest.

I know a lot of people assumed Travis Etienne would be, you know, on the trading block because of the emergence of Tank Bigsby. But the Jaguars weren't actively making calls saying, hey, do you want Travis Etienne? Nor were they getting many calls on teams being interested in Etienne. Other guys like Devin Lloyd, a former first-round linebacker, it would have made sense if the Jaguars were shopping him because Ventrell Miller, fourth-round pick from last year, is playing better than him. You already have Foye at LuaCon. But he is another case where there wasn't much league-wide interest in him.

So it was a little bit of situation and circumstances, a little bit that they had already traded away two guys of trade value and a little bit that the rest of the league just didn't seem as interested in some of their guys. Yeah, that, okay. Cause Brandon Sheriff was one that I really was thinking about the Vikings. You know, we've talked about how I feel like Brandon Sheriff many times because he had some interest in signing here before signing with the Jaguars and then his looked like a potential trade target. But, um, the fact that they have no guards left, that makes more sense for why they would have to keep them.

Well, that seems like a good way to transition into this actual football game between the Vikings Jaguars. One thing that I've noticed about the Jags is there's been a couple blowouts that have been pretty memorable, including in London. It's pretty nasty, but there's also been a ton of one-score games that the Jaguars have played this year.

Five of them, I think, the losses have been by one score. Just start with the big picture here for me. Obviously, this is a calamity for the entire franchise when they were expecting to be toward the top of the division. How bad is the actual team? Is it not coming through in the big moment, or is this really a team that the Vikings feel like they should steamroll? So it's not like, obviously in the NFL,

you are what your record says you are in most nearly every case. But I wouldn't say this Jaguars team is as bad as, say, the Urban Meyer Jaguars team in 2021, where they were just getting steamrolled week in and week out. The roster sucks. The coaching sucked, et cetera. This Jaguars team, it does have some talent. Now it's missing blue chip talent.

They are blue chip players are pretty much Josh Heinz Allen. And it's looking like Brian Thomas jr. But you know, they, they have some talented players throughout, you know, on both sides of the ball on defensively. Like they I think they rank 32nd in EPA per play, like talent wise. They shouldn't be anywhere close to that. So that's when you look at stuff like, you know, coaching the schematic change in the Ryan Nielsen. The secondary has been a mess because, you know, they've been like the same way.

Gus Bradley is obsessed with running cover three on every single play. Ryan Nielsen's obsessed with running man coverage and press coverage on every single play, regardless of who's in the game. Like he's done it with like third stringers in the game. That's been a big detriment to the defense and a big reason why they are where they are. But otherwise, like you said, five losses in one score games. You could have made a case in all of those games that, you know, they probably should have won them. You know, in Miami, Travis Etienne fumbles. I like the two-yard line when he's about to put them up by two scores

at the end of the third quarter. This past week against Philadelphia, they have the ball, the Eagles 13, with a minute 40 left, but then they throw a wheel route to their third string 5'10 running back in the end zone, and it gets intercepted. So a lot of it is them just kind of getting in their own way uh they are i think better than what the record says they are but they also make way too many self-inflicted mistakes way too many coaching mistakes to be a consistent winning team to the

point where they've definitely earned that two and seven record so like i said i don't think they're a team that you're necessarily going to bolt over because they aren't that bad talent wise but they just have shown that they're not ready to come through in the big moments when they need to and when it comes to Trevor Lawrence although as of this moment we don't know if Trevor Lawrence is going to play uh so we'll talk about Mac Jones as well but every time I watch Trevor Lawrence there's five six plays where I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, he's getting it. That's on time. That's a great throw. That's a really good arm. That's a great playoff schedule, but there's just not enough of it. It's just not consistent

enough with him over years now. It's not just this year he's having a down season. It's not just, oh, well, the offensive line got hurt and that's the problem, season it's not just oh well the you know the offensive line got hurt and that's the problem or there's not enough receivers and that's the problem or it's the coach and that's the problem I mean have you reached a point with Trevor Lawrence where you feel like you know what he is is there more to this with Trevor Lawrence because I just have a tough time after this big of a sample always pointing to, well, it's got to be the coach. It's got to be the weapons. It's got to be, uh, it seems that he's a guy that can't elevate all of those things. Now, maybe someday there's a Sam Darnold situation waiting for Trevor

Lawrence, where he's got elite wide receivers and elite play calling and all those types of things. But it seems as of right now that we have seen enough seasons of just being kind of bumping up against the ceiling for him that we can't say, oh, he's one of those guys that you could just put anything around and he's going to be bringing that team to the playoffs. Yeah, no, I think that's definitely fair. I think the book on Trevor when he came out was a lot of people thought, okay, you can put him on a 3-13, 3-14 team, and the next year there'll be a contender, and he's the difference.

I don't think he's been that quarterback. I'm not necessarily saying I don't think he can be because, you know, he is still, you know, a relatively young quarterback. He's in his fourth year, but even inside the building, you know, a lot of people have said for years, they're like, that first year he was in the NFL, he legitimately was not taught how to be an NFL quarterback in pretty much any facet.

But I agree with you. He's, in my opinion, has shown that he's a good quarterback. He's a quarterback that you can, you know, win because of. He had a really dreadful first month of the season this year where probably in my opinion the roughest stretch he's played since his urban meyer days you know over the last five weeks i think he's like top 10 and epa per play and success rate stuff like that he's playing solid football but like you said i don't think he's yet become and it's still a question of can he become the quarterback who can bring everybody

else up with him? You know, like he's playing well on a two and seven football team and they're two and seven in part because he's not able to overcome some of the other deficits that they have. The Packers game, I said, was the perfect, you know, Trevor Lawrence game for where he is right now. He had two brutal mistakes, turnovers in their own territory, including a fumble. But then, you know, in the last five minutes of the game, he leads two scoring drives, throwing to Tim Jones and Brent Strange and whatnot.

That's Trevor Lawrence to me. He was the reason why they were trailing, but he was also the only reason it was even close to being a ball game. So, as of right now, I'd say he's a good quarterback, and he still has a ways to go to becoming a great quarterback and becoming one of those guys, you know, the Patrick Mahomes is the Josh Allen's who can elevate basically anything around them. Yeah. I think that's probably off the table at this point, but when I look at him and when I look at his numbers throughout his career, you go, there has to be more than this with the talent that the guy has

but and then when you see Sam Darnold right in front of my eyes be a guy who was like Lawrence where he had stretches and had flashes and had bad teams and never quite got there and then comes here in his top five and quarterback rating in the NFL, it certainly makes you believe that if you can reach a baseline, that someone will give you another chance, or someone will stick with you long enough that maybe you can build it. I just wonder what you think that that ceiling is with him, if they are to build it, and how much we're supposed to blame everybody else. I mean, this year I could definitely see it.

You've got one wide receiver, the other guys banged up and there's not much else there. The offensive line is struggling. The play caller seems to be a problem. I just wonder if there's ever going to be this, like, how long do they stick with it? How long do they wait? How many years do they say, maybe if we just do something different, it will be different? I think they wait really as long as it takes to happen.

Shot Khan is firmly in the Trevor Lawrence camp. They didn't have any trepidation about paying him a year earlier than he probably should have been. I think the big thing is, like I said, he's he's not meeting I think the expectations of generational quarterback coming in but he's also not playing like Sam Darnold did in New York he's not playing like Bryce Young was playing like Zach Wilson was playing he's not by any means been like a bad quarterback he just hasn't been a great quarterback and I think that's where maybe some of the disconnect is you know sometimes with him nationally as a lot of people expected him to be you know in that top tier you know

already whether he actually gets there I'm not sure but until he's playing like a bad quarterback I don't think the Jaguars will have you know any willingness to say okay we've seen enough because it's frustrating when you see him not hit you super high ceiling, but he's also not completely cratering to the floor or anything like that. I think that's what makes him so difficult to talk about because we want to put these guys into the extremes. And I think that there's categories of quarterbacks where we are seeing Josh Allen was given almost nothing this year and just keeps winning.

Mahomes is undefeated where he's just throwing dink and dunk because he has no options down the field and no running game. And although Kareem Hunt was good the other night, but still, I mean, not a whole lot of running game with Pacheco injured. And yet still that team never loses. Clearly Lawrence is not that, but maybe the version of what Sam Darnold became in Carolina in like 2022, which was if we give him DJ more, we give him the right set of circumstances, then he can show that he could still be a quarterback. Cause I think that that kind

of saved Darnold's career, that six game stretch where he showed that. And then he comes here with the best receiver in the world and two other first round draft pick stars around him, a decent enough offensive line. And it just makes you believe that if you can reach a certain baseline, then there is a ceiling that's more possible there. But I don't think, I think we can call it as far as he's just going to drag the Jaguars franchise into relevance, no matter what they have around him. As far as this current version that the Vikings are playing, if he is in the game because he's banged up this week, what, what is ha what is currently happening? Like who's playing?

There's a bunch of people hurt, but I look at tank big speaks numbers. They're really good. Averaging five and a half yards a carry. Explain offense. How dangerous is it? The offense has had its moments. They've definitely relied a lot on explosive plays. So, like, they haven't been an offense that's been consistently efficient or anything like that. Like, against the Eagles last week, they didn't even get their second first down

until, I think, nine minutes and 14 seconds left in the third quarter. So they've been a super slow starting offense. But because they've been able to get chunk plays or they've been able to kind of crawl out of some of the holes they've gone into, the rushing attack is really high in the EPA. And then it's like 17th or 18th in success rate, which kind of tells the entire story with them. You know, they've relied completely on Tank Bigsby having these incredible, you know, long rushes or he's breaking multiple missed tackles. So they're like their rushing numbers look better on the surface than they did last year

when they were the league's worst rushing offense. But it's much more because Tank Bigsby has had, you know, some absolutely superhuman type runs this year, as opposed to they've become an actual better rushing attack. Tank Bigsby, you know, he's done really well, but teams can kind of easily take Tank out of the game when they, you know, get up on the Jaguars a little bit. Tank, you know, Jaguars have shown when they fall behind, they're going to throw the ball. They're going to, you know, completely take running the ball out of it.

I think Tank had eight carries last week. Travis Etienne had three carries in a game that they ended up only losing by five, but they went down 22-0. They obviously turned to the pass game. And another thing with Tank Bixby is they still, for as effective as he's been as a rusher, they don't trust him at all in passing down. So you're not going to see him catching the ball much out of the backfield. You're not going to see him pass blocking much.

It's pretty much a tell when he's on the field that they're going to be running the ball and when the Jaguars get into you know game scripts where running the ball isn't exactly advantageous it kind of takes them completely out of the game so that's why the running game has been a bit boom or bust uh you know Trevor Lawrence him and the deep ball especially Brian Thomas Jr. has been really effective for the Jaguars this year. Thomas Jr., he's definitely going to play. He wasn't 100% last week, but when you go back and watch his routes and his performance, it didn't look like he was that banged up, but he missed most of practice throughout the week, and the Jaguars have really a timing-based offense to the point where I think

if you don't practice throughout the week, you're not going to be a huge part of the game plan, and then he ends up only get four targets last week. So he's been their best offensive player. He's been able to get behind pretty much every defense that they faced. And Lawrence has been good at getting the ball to him. But otherwise, you know, Christian Kirk's obviously out for the year. Parker Washington's a explosive slot receiver, but he still very much seems like a a young you know player on the field he doesn't have a lot of the veteran savvy that Christian Kirk brought to the position there was a play last week where you know on third down he catches the ball out the chains but instead of

falling backwards to secure the first down you know he gets the ball falls forward falls on it they end up getting a fourth of inches they get it but that just kind of shows the example last year when Trevor Lawrence got hurt against the Bengals, it happened because Washington ran his route at the wrong timing and wrong depth, just stuff like that. He doesn't bring the consistency that Christian Kirk brings, but he is a solid player when he has good routes, mostly has good hands, very explosive and athletic.

Evan Ingram's Evan Ingram. You know, he's, you know, a really good pass catcher who is on and off in terms of his consistency with his hands, but they use them mostly as an underneath target. You know, they're going to throw it to him pretty much at the sticks, get him in one-on-one situations, try to get him yards after the catch. But then other than that, you know, Gabe Davis, questionable to play. They don't really have a third receiver, you know,

to put out there now with Christian Kirk out. You'll see some Tim Jones, maybe some Devin Duvernay if he plays, but neither one of them poses much of a threat. And then the offensive line, they're going to be starting third string guard Blake Hance because obviously Cooper Hodges is out for the year. And Ezra Cleveland has a high ankle sprain. They haven't said that he's out, but I think it's pretty clear

reading the tea leaves that he's not going to play. And what is happening at left tackle? Walk a little. It's, you know, they've more or less said, okay, this last eight or nine game sample size is walk a little last audition to be, you know, the franchise left tackle moving forward. Didn't have a great game last week against the Eagles. So definitely will be somebody to watch this week.

You know, he's somebody who went when he's played well, and when he's been able to be on the field consistently, he's played just as well, if not better than Cam Robinson in some cases, but you can also see in a lot of cases, this is a fourth year guy who still doesn't have a ton of experience because he's been yanked in and out of the starter lineup for so long.

He will be facing the number one player in the NFL and quarterback pressures in Jonathan Grenard, who's having an amazing season. So that's certainly a battle to watch there as you go through it. I keep coming back to the, well, this is why they have to stick with Trevor Lawrence because well they don't really run very consistently they really have one wide receiver and he's a rookie this guy doesn't know where the sticks are you know this is their third string guard it's uh they're pretty banged up there um if it's Mac Jones what did Mac Jones look like to you during training camp? Uh, I'm assuming that means not so great.

So Vikings fans are going to respect Mac a little bit more because he came here on a Thursday night, Thanksgiving, I think two years ago and played a great game against them, but kind of everybody did in 2022. So if it's Mac, uh, I guess you're not confident that he can elevate all the things you just said that are going sideways it if it's mac i got the vikings to cover i'll you know put it like that like no disrespect meant to him it's just a lot of the jaguars offense is based off of you know trevor lawrence's really athleticism ability to extend plays, what he brings as a runner. And then Mac Jones is just a complete 180 from him

in terms of mobility and athlete. It's a timing-based offense, so Mac Jones can obviously do that. He can operate quick game and stuff. But when the Jaguars need a big play, when they need to go off schedule, that's where they would miss Trevor Lawrence a lot. Mac, like I said, his mobility is a big detriment to, you know, what he brings to the table and behind an offensive line that it's like pressure rate numbers are good,

but it's one because the quarterback is so mobile and two, because they do a ton of quick game and getting the ball out of his hands. If you know, you put it, Mac Jones behind there, I think the Vikings would be able to tee off on him a little bit. I think so, too. I mean, it's going out on a limb there. Right. I mean, well, and that's the thing with Lawrence that I see a lot is how fast the ball is coming out, which I think actually can be difficult for the Vikings.

We saw the Rams really do that on Thursday Night Football a couple weeks ago, and that kept their offense on the Vikings. We saw the Rams really do that on Thursday night football a couple weeks ago, and that kept their offense on the field, and it kept the chains moving, but you also mentioned that the chains haven't been moving that well for the Jaguars. So yeah, it's a situation with two teams in very different spots. On the defensive side, though, you mentioned that they're getting absolutely shredded. What are they going to try to do to stop three of the best weapons in the NFL in Jefferson, Hawkinson, and Jordan Addison? Yeah, it doesn't seem like they're going to have Tyson Campbell shadow Justin Jefferson. Doug Peterson got asked that exact question yesterday.

They were like, is Tyson going to shadow him? And he paused for like 10 seconds and then goes, no, I don't think so. So it always felt like he was making that decision there. And then he goes, you know, you can do that or you can have your number one corner on the number, you know, the Belichick thing. Put the number one corner on number two receiver and double the one. He more or less said that seems like the option they're going to go. So it seems like that's their plan uh jorian jones rookie third round pick who he's now infamous for being backwards hurdled by saquon barkley uh

but he's had a solid rookie season it kind of sucks that for him that that's been the highlight of his rookie season is being you know in that you know once in a lifetime type of play but he's been a solid player at the nickel they've really struggled at the cornerback spot opposite Tyson Campbell. You know, cornerback, the drop-off year is normally around age 30, age 31. When they signed Ronald Darby this offseason, they were hoping they could squeeze the last good year out of him. It seems like that last good year was last year at Baltimore. He just – he doesn't – he can't run like he used to.

When you're playing man coverage and press coverage every single play, you know, a quarterback losing speed seems pretty significant. Monteric Brown will rotate with him. He's a solid corner, but he's, you know, ideally he's probably your third or fourth best corner. He's good against the run, but again, he's another guy who you can kind of run by. So Darnell Savage is at safety,

even though he's been better in the nickel for the Jaguars. He hasn't been very good at safety, but Antonio Johnson was struggling so much at the start of the year that, you know, they took Savage out of his ideal spot just to cover up, you know, one spot. And then Andre Sisco,

a lot of people painted him coming into the year as like one of the breakout guys to watch. He's in a contract year. I think he was third among safeties and interceptions the last two years, et cetera. And then this year, he's been honestly a liability. He's been probably the most disappointing player this year. So they're definitely somebody that they can get after

in the passing game. And then they're linebackers too. They really struggle, you know, because they play so much man coverage. Teams have been able to use, you know, pre-stab motions and stuff like that that completely mess up with the linebackers' eyes to create, you know, pre-stab motions and stuff like that, that completely mess up with the linebackers eyes to create, you know, leverage for the offense. The Jaguars have been terrible really at defending it. And it just so happens that I know KOC,

you know, loves his motion, loves his crossing routes. It definitely seems like a week that Devin Lloyd's going to get picked on a bit in the passing game. Yeah. I mean, if you are playing man against the Vikings, they're going to use bunch formations to mess with that. They're going to use motions to mess with that. I mean, they've got so many man beater, different options underneath deep with Justin Jefferson. And I think that they have to double Justin Jefferson, not that it ever works, but last week, a few times the Colts decided they were going to play a man press against him one-on-one on the outside. And the result was a 41 yard pass down the sideline where he smoked the guy off the line of scrimmage and cruised right into the

football from Sam Darnold. So I think this is the biggest mismatch is the Vikings offense versus gestures at everything with the Jaguars defense. As far as your perspective on the Vikings, what is your take on Sam Darnold? I mean, do you look at it through the Jaguars lens and say, see everybody, see what you can do in terms of pumping up a very talented but flawed top draft pick or do you not make the equivalency no i i think donald yeah he's a good example like you know like baker in tampa you know that you know kind of shows that situation matters uh obviously kevin o'connell is what you know top five play caller, offensive line in the NFL. He's basically proven that he can produce with any quarterback that you put in front of him,

which makes him insanely invaluable. The Jaguars in 2022, when they were going through their super elongated coaching search, put in a request to interview Kevin O'Connell after he had pretty much already decided to become the Vikings coach. He, like now, three years later, seems like the coach that got away, the coach that they should have been going after from the start instead of getting in on it late in the game. So I think a lot of it is situation. I'm probably not the best guy to ask about Sam Darnold

because ever since he was at USC, I've been a Sam Darnold, I think, is kind of stunk kind of guy. I didn't like him at USC. I didn't like him in the Jets, but he's obviously playing good football with the Vikings. I do think a lot of it, though, is, you know, like you said, the situation is three really good back until Christian Daris all got hurt. He probably had the best offensive tackle duo in the NFL.

And then, of course, he has Kevin O'Connell. So I think Sam Donald playing really good football. But I think he's kind of an example of, you know, maybe the prime example right now of why situation matters for quarterbacks. Because if you put him in, like, say, Carolina or New England or something, I don't think, you know, you're getting the same Donald resurgence year that you're getting right now. Oh, no, absolutely not. But, you know, that always kind of comes up with, like, Brock Purdy, too. And I always say, what do you want him to do? Issue an apology?

It's not a detriment at all. You know, like I said, he's definitely playing, I think, the best football of his career. He's made some throws this year that have looked absolutely outrageous. And I think he's prying for a big week this week i i i think he throws for 350 yards this week okay you know that's a great lead-in because uh this show is presented by underdog fantasy so when i bring on guests from the other teams i like to look at the pickums uh you know um so you already kind of ruined one why don't I just give them to you now?

By the way, Underdog Fantasy, easiest place to play fantasy sports. Sign up with the promo code purple. Claim your special pick and first-time offer up to $1,000 in bonus cash. Must be 18 or older. Terms apply. Concerned with your play? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit ncpgambling.org. So let's go through these.

The hires and lowers. Now, they are hires and lowers. Be clear on that. For yardage, for Trevor Lawrence, is 205.5 yards. This one seems to me a little bit low because I think he's going to have to throw the football to try to match up with the Vikings offense. But would you go higher or lower, 205.5 yards for Trevor Lawrence? I'd go lower.

I think Flores is going to stuff Press Taylor into a locker. I think it's going to be brutal, so I'm going to go lower. Okay, I could see that as well. I was thinking kind of maybe three interception game for Trevor Lawrence, but I completely agree that that's what's going to happen, especially if Blake Cashman comes back and the underneath stuff is not there. You already said that you think it's going to be higher than 252.5 yards for Sam Darnold, but does he throw more than 1.5 touchdowns?

Yes. Okay. All right. How about this one this he does that in the first half okay i don't disagree with you and the vikings don't really run for touchdowns uh how about justin jefferson higher or lower than 97 and a half yards it's a lot higher higher okay how about this uh in the in the end zone would you rather go at least one touchdown for brian thomas or evan ingram if i if you had to pick one which guy would you go with probably brian thomas and i think part of it is because

the jaguars have been killed so much for not getting him involved last week. And I think they know the only way they're going to be in this game is to use their best players. I'll go Brian Thomas. Okay. One more. How many points does the Jaguars kicker score?

The higher, lower number is 6.5. Will Cam little is apparently the kicker for the Jaguars. Will he score more than 6.5. Will Cam Little is apparently the kicker for the Jaguars. Will he score more than 6.5 points? I think probably five to six points. That sounds right, so I'll go lower. Okay. So just to put a bow on it,

I think that your takeaway here is the Vikings are going to win this football game. Yeah, I think the Vikings offense is going to shred the Jaguars defense. I think the Jaguars offense, while it's had its moments, is just not a good matchup against Brian Flores, especially with some of the people they have out. I have the Vikings by a couple scores in this one. I would tend to agree with you. Well, I will see you on Sunday afternoon.

I'm headed out Saturday, so I will be down there. I could not pass up an opportunity, despite the lack of this game being on the marquee, to have some Jacksonville weather in my life. So I will see you then. Thanks so much for your time. Always good to get back together with you, man. Hey, appreciate you, brother.

I'll see you Sunday. All right.