Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Star Tribune's Andrew Krammer talks Falcons-Vikings, Ringer's Steven Ruiz talks J.J. McCarthy

Episode Date: September 13, 2025

Andrew Krammer of the Star Tribune previews the game and Steven Ruiz of The Ringer talks McCarthy's debut and what to look for going forward. The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel.

Welcome everybody into TCO Performance Center, Matthew Collar here, along with Andrew Kramer of the Minnesota Star Tribune for our weekly hardcore breakdown, Vikings, Falcons, National Television, 2024, quarterback, narratives, et cetera, et cetera. So Vikings Falcons, Andrew, we saw this matchup last year, but it looked very different because Kirk Cousins was the quarterback. So instead of revenge game, now it's, hey, you guys were drafted in the same year game. And that is a fact. So we're going to go through the best matchups between the Vikings and the Falcons. And I think the best place to start with this conversation is probably how J.J. McCarthy and the offense match up against this falcons defense. What have you taken away from the last two days of Kevin O'Connell and West Phillips talking about the reflective on J.J. McCarthy's game? What happened early in the game, the pick six was talked about today, how he came back in the fourth, how he handled himself, all of that.

Yeah, I think what stood out to me is how they've talked about pointing the finger at other people, the other 10 guys in the huddle saying that at that start of that game, other guys were just not on their responsibilities. We heard their offensive coordinator, West Phillips, tell us just now that great offenses usually don't take turns messing up. Great offenses usually are on top of things and understand what they need to do. And the Vikings just showed whether it was Brian O'Neill seemingly missing a block on the opening run play or Justin's school giving up pressure early, drops in that game, guys slipping on the field. Whatever the excuse may be, they weren't all executing around McCarthy as much. But at the same time, McCarthy looked overwhelmed at times in the noise with the operation, shouting out the change. canning plays. He seemed like a guy who very much was settling into what he needed to do and really, you know, spinning many, many plates at once. So I think this will get better. The Vikings coaches say it's going to get better in terms of being at home, not dealing with the noise. And just getting those first game jitters out of the way. This guy had not played a meaningful game in 600 plus days. So I think that's what it looked like. That's what it looked like to the coaches. And they're expecting the operation to be smoother and not have, for instance, the two delay a game penalties they had in the first half. You know, Kevin O'Connell is. known as a pretty nice guy and with us, our interactions with him on a weekly basis are

really friendly, even when things are tense or things are difficult. I think he keeps pretty calm and cool, unlike maybe some other coaches we've covered in the past. But I'm guessing that some of the paint came off the walls with the film session for the beginning of the game with some of the details, whether it was routes that looked like they weren't run very well or blocking assignments that weren't run very well. But I also think with J.J. McCarthy that maybe there was no way to anticipate what it's really like to be out there at Soldier Field in that situation. And this week is just going to be very, very different.

Like he's played twice now at U.S. Bank Stadium, which does matter to some extent. And also, everyone will hear everything he says at U.S. Bank Stadium. And what I don't expect and what would be concerning if we saw it again was the play clock going three, two, and you're scrambling around. But I also do want to remember that last year there was a point where Justin Jefferson went to Kevin O'Connell because they were having this problem with delay of games. And he said, can we just line up and run our routes? And I do wonder about that with J.J. McCarthy if there is so much on his plate. And we've heard this staff say this before, even when Josh Jobs was here. And West Phillips said it again. We have to give

them everything that they need or they won't be able to do their job at their maximum. But I do think that that cup does floweth over sometimes with what Kevin O'Connell asks his quarterbacks to do. And that's what I thought the first three plays of a game. There's no way you should be running around trying to get people lined up, trying to make checks. It should just be walk up to the line of scrimmage, take the snap, hand it off, run a play action, whatever it is. And I know football is more complicated than that. But I thought that's, if you knew what this atmosphere was going to be. Why did you have him have checks and changes and everything else in the first two or three plays of the game? Yeah, I thought there was some bad

analysis from some smart people online who were saying things like, oh, the Vikings are running this vanilla offense. That's why it's struggling and all that. Dennis Allen just knows what they're doing. Well, no, we just heard West Phillips talk about it. We saw it with our own eyes. They did not dumb it down that much for him. They tried to give him the tools to work with. And I'm talking to Josh McCown this summer. He talked about how we have to treat this kid like he's a child can not yet walk, but we have to coach him as if he knows how to. So we have to give him the tools, empower him to get to that point where he feels like he's walking and then eventually running, but we know he's not there yet.

So I do think there's that give and take where maybe they pulled back on some of the responsibilities or some of the multiple plays they were giving him at the huddle because it didn't seem like those issues continued throughout the game. It seemed like, too, they went into more no huddle eventually, picked up the uptempo, tried to use that as a weapon to help simplify things and simplify the defense they were facing. So I don't expect the game against the Falcons will just all look like the fourth quarter. Otherwise, they're going to score 80, carry the 84 points. Something like that. I don't math. Football. It'd be a lot. It would be really the best offensive game in history if you just scored three touchdowns every single quarter. So I don't expect that. But what should we expect them to take away from what they did in the fourth quarter that worked so well against Chicago? into this game against Atlanta? Well, boy, if Miles Price can start them in midfield every time,

that would be helpful as well. It would also be helpful if they could lean on the run game. If Jordan Mason continued to be as efficient as he was, and especially that fourth quarter, that last drive, I was impressed not only by Mason and the run game, but Kevin O'Connell sticking with it, they spent four and a half minutes to score that last touchdown, and that was a crucial time wasting to help kind of choke out Chicago's chances there.

And that's coaching. That's a change in coaching that we haven't seen from O'Connell. So I think they need to stick with the run. game. I think they need to do that early in games as well. Maybe start a drive or two with a couple runs and see what happens. I also wouldn't be shocked, Matt. Would you be shocked to see Jordan Mason start a game soon? I mean, I wouldn't be shocked if we start seeing him get more involved because his first carry did not come until the third drive on Monday night. Yeah, I was not a fan of that. And what I would like to see is, and maybe this operation is more challenging than I think it is. But what I'd like

to see is our drive starts with a screen pass to Aaron Jones feel free to use them the screens a little bit more but let's just say starts with a screen pass Jones and he gains 15 yards okay now here comes Jordan Mason and then it's a handoff to Mason it seems like it's your drive my drive your drive my drive when I think that they should be able to mix and match with these guys and have them as both part of drives I also think that this should be treated kind of like we saw, and this is going back a little bit, but Jerich McKinnon and Latavius Murray, where it was basically, if you're having a good day,

you keep going. If you're having a good day, you keep going. If Aaron Jones ends up in a game with three carries, okay, fine. If Jordan Mason's rolling, if Mason ends up with three carries because Jones is rolling, then just go with whoever has the better vision on the defense,

whoever is hotter. But, you know, there is something about Jordan Mason that makes me think, I don't know how often this guy's going to slump because he got hit two yards from the line of scrimmage and got six he got hit at the line of scrimmage and got four someone tried to arm tackle him and had their arm ripped off and flew into the stands i mean this the violence and the strength that this guy runs with i don't think he's very easy to ever slump and even when you have bad runs you're probably still going to have pretty good

runs yeah and there was there was one run i thought of aaron jones early in that game where he just at least early didn't seem to be making some smart decisions in this Jones games where he's, there was one run that went toward Will Fry's side, the strength of their offensive line on that night, and he bounces it back to the left where Justin's school is getting pushed back into him. And even though he had vision to bounce it outside and just didn't, I think Mason's so decisive and different in that aspect where Jones seems to understand that his strength is speed and outrunning people and getting the edge. So he's looking for that consistently. Whereas Mason just knows, no, there is no man that's going to really throw me down here

at this point, like Miles Price, who got kind of made fun of by the head coach, chucked nine yards, but Mason's chucking those people, nine, 10 yards. And I think that's, that is something this offense specifically needs because they not only spent to upgrade the interior line to bulldoze people, they needed a guy like Mason to come in here and do that because Jones just doesn't do it. Well, and I think it was West Phillips said today about feeling the size of the interior offensive line. And for so long, it's been undersized center who if you're playing the wrong person is going

to get worked. I've also watching the tape back in the second half felt the size when they ran some sort of double team. I don't know every single run scheme, you know, exactly to a T, but it was a double team between Ryan Kelly and Donovan Jackson. And they just took the nose tackle and eliminated him. He was moved five, six yards down the field with those two guys' size and athleticism. The strength of Ryan Kelly was just on display. I mean, when they when they were running stunts and someone would come flying into Ryan Kelly and then just hit a brick wall. Like, he is so impressive and run behind those guys. Like, feel free. Until Derrisaw comes back, run behind those guys. They were running

counters. They were running duos or whatever it is, you know, off the middle power type of stuff. Go ahead and keep doing that with Jordan Mason because I also don't think any team enjoys that when they're just getting slammed into by the size of these interior linemen. Yeah, and Nicole's had a great offensive line with those two guys. But when you went back and watch the few games that Fry's played with Ryan Kelly at the beginning of last year. That's what Shane Steichen did with Jonathan Taylor. And I do think the Vikings will eventually get to that point. This is an offensive coaching staff, though, Matt, that is not too used to installing or

keeping a lengthy big volume run game. They're not used to having to do all that. I'm not saying they're not capable of it. I'm not saying they haven't done it before. It's just in Minnesota, this has been a pretty low volume rushing attack. So I'm curious to see how it evolves. I'm curious to see how these roles evolved that you're talking about and how consistent it's going to be.

Will they stick with it? I think it was a good showing by O'Connell on the fourth quarter on Monday night. But if J.J. McCarthy shows glimpses like he did on Monday where he's growing and showing that he can attack downfield, is that kind of carrot going to be too enticing for O'Connell and don't want to take shots when, frankly, this offense is built to win fights like they did on Monday. So I'm looking at the defensive line of the Falcons.

And you know, David, on Yamada, has always been a good player. he, when he was with the Saints, was also really good against the Vikings, but I think the strength of this team is really in their back unit. I mean, from linebackers back, their safetys, Xavier Watts was really good in this game against the Tampa Bay Bucks. That's a second round pick who had a great college career, but maybe it wasn't quite the right size and speed combination, ends up being a second round pick. Jesse Bates is a star, and A.J. Terrell is a star, and we know Mike Hughes is a first round talent, even if he's bounced around the league a little bit, but he's a good player. That's where I think the biggest challenge is going to come for this team, which to

me says even more strongly, like find a way to run against these guys and push around those second level players and wear them down. Divine Diablo has become a good player for them as far as being a good tackler. I think that there's a lot of challenges there that they have to take advantage of the defensive line not being super strong, having two rookies in there as well, Shailen Walker, James Pierce, who was on the injury report this week. So that to me is if you test their secondary a ton early on, you might get burned because they have some really good players there. Well, Sam Darnold didn't have a problem with it last year,

at least to what it was last year. A little different group, yeah. It's different now, but I can't remember if they had everybody last year with Terrell and Bates in there. But, yeah, last year was obviously Donald's five touchdown game, but Addison's not going to be out there like he was last time where he caught three touchdowns against the Falcons. I do think they're a talented group.

You saw Baker Mayfield struggle with them. Outside the deep shots to Egbuka, they didn't have too much going offensively. And maybe that's more Tampa than Atlanta. We'll find out. They got two really good edge rushers. They drafted, but those guys are going to be coming off the bench, it would seem, in some reserved roles.

So I do think that this is a team and a defense that you can take advantage of in terms of the run game, in terms of pounding that front. I do think that they're going to try and do that again and make things easy with McCarthy because I don't know how else You're going to, I don't see this coaching staff being hoodwinked by what happened in the fourth quarter. I don't see them coming out in this game and saying, you know what, JJ, all training wheels are off now in terms of us trying to make it easy on you, go out and win us this game. No, they're going to try and continue to ask him to, quote, unquote, play quarterback 10 snaps and make it incredibly easy on him. And I think this Falcon's defense sets up for them to do that.

I do not think they're too feared in the front. I think the matchups the Vikings have with the O line, with the tight ends. we got to see if Josh Oliver how banged up that ankle is at his because he was listed as not practicing on Wednesday. They promote Nick Vinette to the active roster. I don't know if that means that Oliver is limited or not going to play, but if they don't have him,

that will definitely hurt what they have. But I do think, Matt, based on what we heard from Darissau and the coaching staff last week, that this might be the game he comes back. The longer he's out, the more he gets full practices in like he's doing this week, the more likely it seems that this will be Christian Derisaw's debut. Right.

We are recording this before we get the final injury report. So we're going to talk about injuries and, you know, maybe we'll already know some of the answers here. But I definitely watch the game like everybody else and had the same conclusion, which is they need Christian Darisaw back. But I also thought that there were four, maybe five plays where if Darisaw is in there, J.J. McCarthy, and sometimes you have to judge this by stuff that's your best guess. like where his helmet was pointing on the tape, while he was looking over there,

was he going to throw it? There is a play where Jalen Naylor has a 50-yard touchdown. Yeah. And Justin School just gets beat. And McCarthy's looking over there, and his body language is like, I'm going to do it. And then he couldn't.

And if Christian Derasaw is back, I think we get to see more of the full J.J. McCarthy experience because so much of it was blown up by Justin School pressures. I mean, the fact that he gave up four pressures and you only attempted 20 passes. I mean, that's one every five passes. That just really can't happen. So this offensive line, though,

after seeing Donovan Jackson actually play in a real game, because I said this, I don't know how many times, it's hard for us to figure out a guard playing Javon Hargrave in practice. But you know, West Phillips said today that he thought that the nerves were there in preseason, that he didn't have a very good preseason game, and that he kind of shook those off and then he was ready to go. if he plays like that fairly consistently, and then these other

two guys are proven, you get Darrasaw back, I think we saw the potential of this offensive line already. We did, and I thought it was a little overstated where people were concerned with it in the first half, where I think it was just seven carries for 20 yards from the running backs and J.J's getting hit, and oh, what did we pay

for on this line? I saw it from Vikings fans, but you saw him settle in. The second half was so much better. School was obviously the weak link. The two opening third downs were his fault. He ends up getting called for holding that negates an 11-yard run, he gives up the hit that is flagged for roughing on McCarthy as well. It was kind of a nightmare game from him. And I just think that, I agree with you. I think that when they bring back their premier all-world left tackle,

that entire group is going to look better. And you saw the difference in the interior. Those pockets had room to step up. Both of the third downs, McCarthy tried to escape up the middle because he actually had room to do so. That is such a difference from the Kevin O'Connor, or excuse me, wow, Kirk Cousins and Sam Darnold experiences here. Minnesota. Sounds like you're suggesting that some fans overreacted. A little bit. Part of the game. They might have. They might have. I thought they didn't do that on Blue Sky. I thought that was only. They do that everywhere. They do that everywhere. But if they're doing it there, then you know they're really overreacting. That's right. On the offensive side for the Atlanta Falcons, there was a glimmer in

the eye of Kevin O'Connell when he was talking about Michael Penix. I mean, I don't think it's any secret that the Vikings had J. McCarthy been drafted, would have taken Michael Pennix. I believe that was reported on draft night that they were perfectly comfortable with either two of those guys. It was just going to be how different is our approach because Pennix is 24 and McCarthy is 21 and there's a big difference in how much they've played football. I have had immense respect for Michael Penix the entire process. I just think that quarterbacks who don't get sacked are so hard to play against. And that's something we heard Brian Flores talk about today. It is. And they're going from a guy who they had trouble sacking in Caleb Williams,

but Caleb takes a ton of sacks. The completely different quarterback, Pennix will recognize pressure. He'll get the ball out. He will not take a negative play very often for his offense. And that's something I'm sure Kevin O'Connell loved about him during the draft process. I'm sure that's something the Falcons love about him too. And you can see the mobility, even after the two ACLs. I know he was much more mobile at Indiana before that, and he didn't show it in college afterward, but he showed it a little bit in that game against Tampa. And I think he can get out and move a little bit more than people think. And that's going to be something he'll have to do against this Vikings defense.

And so I, going back to 2024, I do remember hearing that the Vikings were pretty high on Michael Pennex. I wasn't clear about their order of him and McCarthy. We didn't get to find out, obviously, because Pennix ended up getting taken. But I do think that his traits fit so much with what Kevin O'Connell likes about quarterbacks and wants in quarterbacks. And when we heard O'Connell this week say that this guy gets explosives all over the field, no matter what, you can find a turn on the tape and see that this guy will find the explosive play. I think that's one of the top things O'Connell loves and quarterbacks.

I did sort of lean forward in my chair and I was like, oh, but I think after last week they're probably very happy and they have been with J.J. McCarthy. I mean, I just think the 2024 class has shown when Caleb Williams is the worst. quarterback of the group and then you look at what he's done right now right well and drake may uh too with a very bad situation but i mean those guys are still could be franchise quarterbacks a lot of times if you have five or six guys you eliminate several of them right away i think it just speaks to how strong the overall class was and how the vikings timed up their quarterback situation really really well that they could draft mccarthy or they could draft pennix and feel good about it

And I think Pennix has been the quarterback in the NFL that he was in college, which is not flawlessly accurate, but the ball comes out super fast and super hard down the field. And he's willing to take a ton of risks. And I think that that's the biggest area that I would have concern about the Vikings defense is that there were too many dudes who were open down the field. And there were a few plays where I was just confused. How did this route get wide open? like what was why was somebody's eyes in the back field there is a there's a play where byron murphy is taking a step toward the checkdown and the ball goes right behind him it's like was it that an assignment or did he mess something up the opportunities that were left on the field by Caleb williams will not be left there by michael panics no i don't think they will either or at least not as many of them and when you're talking about the play that byron murphy got let behind him i'm not even sure which one you're talking about because there's multiple are you talking about the touchdown because that was one too it was like a 20 yard completion yeah there was the touch where Byron's turning back looking at Theo, like, why did you just abandon that area that I passed the guy off into and seemingly some kind of miscommunication there? There was the 30-yarder to DJ Moore where I think Flores just said today that that was on Isaiah Rogers for letting the double post go behind him where Theo was way back behind him in creating that void. And so I think they missed Harrison Smith. I think they had some growing pains with this new secondary coming together. I do not think it was a coincidence that Brian Flores seemed to slow. play the start of the season with basically all four-man rushes to start that game. He did not

blitz or send a five-man rush until the 18th snap for Chicago in the second quarter. And then when they did, Ivan Pace missed the tackle. He was by then the fourth defender to miss Caleb Williams at that point because Jonathan Allen, Grenard, all the guys had. Penix will be a little easier mark there, but he's going to get the ball out if you create those voids or leave them open. And I think even at this young age, he's going to make mistakes, he's not going to be perfect, but he's got the the willingness to stand in the pocket, take a hit, and has the arm talent to push it into spots, that Caleb Williams does not, has not displayed the discipline to do that, frankly, at USC, or at his one and a half years or one in one game, I should say, one year and one game

in the NFL so far. So that's the thing that I am interested as well, because I think that Flores now has multiple buttons to push. As you mentioned, you can rush forward and see how it goes, and then if you need the pressure, then you get it, or you could come out, and this is how I would approach it, I think, with a quarterback who's never played in U.S. Bank Stadium before, the way I might do it is, I'm going to send the blitz like crazy to start the game and make you make me stop. Because the blitzes are just different in U.S. Bank Stadium than they are anywhere else. It's so much more difficult. And I mean, there's a lot of numbers on this for Sacks. But U.S. Bank Stadium is one of the biggest gaps between home and away sacks. Like they get a lot of them at U.S. Bank

stadium because you can get off the line of scrimmage quicker. They're doing the silent counts, but if you pick up on those, you can have a lot of success. And I think that the edge rushers will see about, you know, Dallas Turner versus Andrew Van Ginkle being in or out. But Dallas Turner, we saw, well, let's talk about that next. But I just think that if it's a young quarterback who's never been here before, I want that quarterback to prove it to me first. Well, I do wonder, too, how much of the vanilla approach seemingly with the pass rush on Monday night was about what you're saying being in a road environment where Caleb can hear everything they're saying. And this is a checked-based defense that is going to be doing those things

where if you were showing a rush and Caleb checks into something, the Vikings will have a built-in counter to whatever they're trying to check into. Maybe week one, you don't have the volume of Ben Johnson's offense to do that. And maybe that was also part of it. But to your point, I do think the crowd noise factored into it. And I do think the crowd noise at U.S. Bank, because we just heard Flores this week say, I want to tell everybody, I had a note written. down. Be loud. And he didn't say this, but I'm sure he wanted to say, be drunk. So you're extra loud because we want this to be in an incredibly awful environment for Michael Penix to operate. Night game here at U.S. Bank Stadium. I'm not, I'm not sure if anybody will be imbibing

before the game. I don't know about that. This going back to their weapons, though, well, I want to talk about Dallas Turner first and then their weapons, because Dallas Turner played 43 percent of the snaps in the first game. And I saw him flash several times, had a couple of pressures, had a really nice couple of run stops. And I think you walk out of the game feeling very good after watching on tape of Dallas Turner. And I guess Flores must have felt very good as well because he said he was mad at himself for not having him on the field a little bit more. Now, I think when they're playing in certain situations, it's a lot of dime and things like that where maybe he wouldn't be out there. But he might be needed a lot in this ball game.

and I think we will find out something about Dallas Turner and where he stands. I also think that we don't have to have every single game be a referendum on Dallas Turner. We just don't have to do that. Like he looked comfortable. He was effective in his role. That's what he was supposed to do today. If he doesn't get force acts in the game, we don't have to call him a bust on the internet over and over and over again. Like, I like where he's at right now after watching the first game.

And I'm very curious to see how he builds on it. Yeah, fans need to realize he's on an upward trajectory. that's not media created. This isn't just us being like, yeah, guys, their first round pick turned out. No, this is the coaching staff telling the media and then us telling you that he's done better. He has more of a routine.

I talked to Dallas after practice this week, and he talked about how my week-to-week routine is so much better. What I'm studying and the opponent is so much more advanced than it was a year ago. And just how I feel physically going into these games was more confident. And his role is different this year.

You saw him go into this game. It was only 43%, but it was in almost, at least the first half, they played him quite a bit in a starter role as one of like a three, four D.N type with Van Ginkle off the edge and then him dropping and then those guys shifting into under fronts and kind of mixing things up before the snap. You saw him be able to be versatile in that front and he can drop into a stack position too, which he might have to do if he's in Van Ginkle's shoes coming up here. And I think overall, you're seeing that confidence

grow with him, which is huge because we've seen it from rookies who come in and don't contribute right away. They get frustrated. They get down on themselves. And then it becomes a spiral that then the belief gets lost. And whether that was Lewis Seen, whether that was Brian Ossema, we've seen guys flash and then just kind of fade away, whereas Dallas Turner really struggled. And I was shocked to see this. When I looked up that snap count from Sunday or Monday night, his most he's ever played in a game remains his first ever NFL game at 49 percent in New York a year ago. They have not gotten him in the game more than that up to this point. And it's obviously very early. But I think that's going to change on Sunday night. Yeah, it's, it's time to do that. They also

benefit from doing that. I mean, if somebody's on the field for half the snaps, they're at 100 percent, they're coming off, flying off the bench. I mean, you want these D-line rotations, the best defensive lines. And I thought they did an amazing job of this in the first game, was getting in Jalen Redmond, getting in Levi Drake Rodriguez. We saw a little bit of Ty Ingram Dawkins, who I feel like you and I have been talking about for quite a while. I think the first surprised to see him in there as much as he was. I was too, but the first. The first conversation I think we had with Ty, we were kind of like, this guy seems like he gets it. You know, I don't know what it is, but sometimes you can just be like, that guy, I think he

understands what he needs to do here. So this rotation and then with Turner is the best possible scenario if you're not having, and we'll see on Van Ginkle, but if you're not having Van Ginkle and Granard have to take every snap or if you're putting them out there at the same time, that's just not something a lot of defenses have, which forces your opponent to try to have a counter against it. So I agree with you that the arrow is pointed up. And I think that Turner came in with the right mentality really from day one of this season. And we're going to have to see how it progresses. We're not going to decide if he was worth the draft capital. We just don't have to do that every single week. How is he going to impact this week's game? I think if Van Ginkle is

not playing, then he's got a chance to show a little lightning off the edge against this team. Yeah, we should also mention with Van Ginkle that he was out for three, four weeks with a neck injury from training camp and now has the concussion. So even if he does play, I can't imagine it's going to be at the full capacity we saw on Monday. Speaking of the injuries, a guy that we do know is out is Blake Cashman and Eric Wilson, what is signing for them and just the hero of that game, aside from the quarterback, this group of weapons is pretty dangerous. If Drake London is playing, Darnel Mooney can go down the field and Bejohn Robinson is one of the best at his position in the NFL. Robinson

hundred yards receiving not much on the ground for the Falcons. And this is my big question about them. When I look at this offensive line, my phone, like, you know, that doesn't look as good as last year's when this Falcons team really moved the ball effectively against Flores because they are missing Drew Dalman, who is a very good center, especially when it came to run blocking. And they're also missing Caleb McGarry, who is their center now? Somebody named Ryan Newzel. Yeah, old Newsy.

Old Newsy. Yep, Newsy's playing center. and Elijah Wilkinson is their tackle. That doesn't sound the same as two guys who are two of the better at their craft. And that's where I think if the Vikings can shut that part of it down, it does become very difficult to sit there, snap in and snap out. I respect Pennix. Everyone likes Pennix.

Kevin O'Connell is going to hold on to that hug for maybe an extra second after the game with Penix. It's not Drew Breeze yet. no he's not I do think before I get accused of throwing cold water on all the overreactions I agree with people the secondary little suspect here but I do think there was some overreaction to the

quote unquote lack of pass rush when really it was just a lack of sacks and lack of finish in that game and frankly ben Johnson was doing a lot of chipping a lot of max protect a lot of Detroit Lions type stuff and what seemed to be anticipating blitzes from Brian Flores that did not come often so it left their four man rush

and frankly it left Jonathan Allen I thought double-teamed a lot. And when he was single-blocked, you saw him make an impact. He missed Caleb Williams in the backfield twice. He could have had two sacks before Hargrave did. So these guys now going up against this line, I feel like at home, with the noise that Pennix is going to have to deal with, it should look a lot better with their four-man rush when they go to it. You're right. Drew Dalman being gone, they just faced him in Chicago. That was a tougher test than what old newsy is going to be for them in Atlanta or with Atlanta. The old newser. The old newsy, the old newsy.

So I do think this four-man defensive line looked good and lived up to the hype. I think Renard can play better. There was a couple misses from him that just were uncharacteristic and you see him typically finish plays like that. So if they get a better game from him, the two interior guys are going to play as they did on Monday night. Pennix is going to have to get the ball out, which means if there's no Okuda, is it going to be Dwight McLeatherin tackling on the perimeter when they go nickel? Are they going to go three safety nickel if Harrison Smith is returning? with Theo Jackson in there. The tackling from the secondary is going to be so paramount

because I expect this ball to come out very quickly. I should have mentioned that, that Okuda is very likely to be out in this game. And then, you know, Brian Flores said today, Dwight McCluthers is the next man up. I would also say that Flores doesn't always tell 100% the truth with who's the next guy playing and he doesn't have to. It could be Fabian Moreau.

Right, exactly. There's no law against saying at a press conference. I want the truth about Dwight Newdy McGleathern. No, it's not like that. So it may actually not be, but that will be a good test there to what they have in Dwight McLaughern and how much they're willing to play him because they played Jay Ward a lot in the last game. And they only played Okuda 17 snaps.

And if that's all they need from McLaughern or Morrow or whoever they're putting in there, or they may just stick with three safeties the entire time and say, we're just going to handle it with Josh Mattelis. who's in and who's out kind of has a big impact on this game and how he has to, Flores, has to adapt this game plan against Michael Pennix. But the thing about Pennix that I have noticed, though, is as much as he does get the ball out pretty quickly and he doesn't take sacks, he was pressured. I mean, so that offensive line that we were talking about, Tampa Bay did get to him in terms

of creating pressure. He's just not going to take a sack. So they have to consistently be creating that pressure because they are sure. on the back end. Yeah, and I didn't even mention about you, you brought up Blake Cashman's injury, but this is not a great game to be missing your leading tackler from last year. The guy who can rally and the guy who, frankly, was the designated spy on Caleb Williams for many times on Monday night. They're not going to need to spy Michael Panics, but they're going to need guys to run to perimeter screens, chase down Bijan, chase down Mooney, whatever. Whoever they go to,

Ray Ray McLeod is basically their screen guy in Atlanta. And we saw him get a bunch of catches against the Vikings last year because they needed a dumb. the ball off so quickly. So I think Cashman's injury is going to be a tough one for them in this game specifically. And I think they are better suited to make up for it, though, this year than they were last year. I like Eric Wilson better than Camus Grugier Hill in that spot. I think Wilson just brings more whatever it is. He plays like he's 25 and yet this guy's like 30. He's been in the league now for eight years and he's just, it's been kind of timeless for them for the Green Bay before, for the Vikings before that. I think he's going to he's going to help them, but it's still

to be less than what Cashman would have been given you. And I wouldn't be shocked if we're seeing a big play over the middle because Cashman's not there. Right. He has become a very, very good player. Cashman's a superstar in the league. There is a difference. It's great to have the drop off be too good player, to average or above average player. But, you know, if Eric Wilson was a full-time starter, he would be full-time starting somewhere in the league. So the best fill-in guy probably in the NFL for this position, but, and way different from last year. But, but not. But, ideal to not have Blake Cashman when you're facing Kyle Pitts and Bejohn Robinson. That's a huge challenge. And before we get to the kind of prediction of how we see this playing out, I would

like you to apologize to Miles Price, one of the stars of the game against the Bears. Boy, an old take exposed from you for last week. You questioned him. You doubted him. I did. I did. I'm sorry. I got an issue of apology to Mr. Price, the Price family. I will indeed say the price is right. He looked pretty good out there. He really did. I mean, just fearless, just nothing, nothing back there. He just, it didn't matter. And the coaches kept saying through the summer, like, nothing's going to be too big for this kid. But we always also hear them say, we don't really know until he gets out there. And he, lo and behold, nothing was too big for him. That was pretty cool. There's something there. And I don't know why it is. And there's one per every

10,000 football players that can do this. Yeah. You know, Percy Harvin was like this. Sheryls was like this where they go back there. And the ball is floating out of the sky in the wind. There's 70,000 people looking at you. They're coming to kill you. And they're just like, oh, I got it. And then his explosiveness and decisiveness really stood out to me because there was space that Chicago gave him to make those returns.

But there was no like, oh, I'm going to dance around. I'm going to see where to go. It was just like, go. And I don't know what it is about that guy, but there's something there. So here's how I see this football game playing out. They're going to kick the ball off. someone will return it, then they'll have a first play, and then we'll see where it goes. Yeah, I know it's, that's the prediction.

If that happens, that's it. No, I got 24 to 20 Minnesota Vikings. I think it's close. I think it's good. I think the quarterbacks show out, but also the Vikings defense will prevail, and the operation for the Vikings will look a lot smoother. I wouldn't be shocked if that happens, not at all. I wouldn't be shocked if they do open up.

with a kickoff and an opening play and all that. I think the Vikings defense is going to be, I think they're going to give up some big plays in this game, more big plays than they gave up in the last game. But I also think they themselves are going to create more big plays because Pennix is not going to run around like Caleb Williams, he's going to have to put the ball in place sooner, even if Van Ginkle is not there to pick off a screen,

which, boy, wouldn't this be the perfect game for Van Ginkle to be healthy for, but he's not, even if they don't have him, I still think they're going to create some turnovers and some havoc that they couldn't on Monday night or just didn't until late in that game. And I think that'll be the difference. I think it'll be something like 28, 27, an incredibly close game, just like the last one. I think, though, this offense will get off to a better start. I actually think it might look a little more lopsided the other way, where maybe the Vikings jump out to a hot start and then the Falcons kind of claw back. Because just I imagine the noise.

I imagine the fan base. I imagine just the noise that Pennix is going to be hearing is going to be deafening to start. this game clawback. That's good. I don't know. I think it's more of a cacaa, but the the Fandual line on this is three and a half. It actually moved from four and a half to three and a half. I don't know if that was maybe some of the injuries, the injury report, or I think it was possibly based on Drake London practicing because he was injured and it was unclear after that. But I think that's an indication of the world thinks that this is going to be a pretty good ball game. It's Sunday night football. And you know that that. they want it to be so we will see you and i will both be there and uh we'll just have to figure out

how it all plays out mr kramer we'll see football can't wait whoa can't wait football there you go my conversation with andrew kramer there of the star tribute any reactions thoughts feel free to let me know next discussion coming up very shortly uh stephen ruiz of the ringer on what he thought and his quarterback analysis of Michael Pennex and J.J. McCarthy and several other quarterbacks that we get into as well. And where McCarthy has to go next this week, any more questions you got? I'm happy to answer. Don't forget the Fandual question of the day over under 212.5 yards. And what do you want to see from J.J. McCarthy in his second career start? But I also thought that while we're sitting here with a slate of games that you guys are going to get to

watch on Sunday as you wait. No, Joe, you're right. I don't know. Why did Andrew Kramer say claw back and then say rar? I thought that was a perfect pun. But maybe he just accidentally said that. But since you're going to be sitting around waiting for Vikings and Falcons on Sunday, we should go over the other games that will be leading up to that game. And what we think of those, some are very relevant already to the Minnesota Vikings. So, uh we start out the day with browns and ravens that's a football game but uh the rams at the titans somewhat interested to see cam ward and his second career start chicago and detroit this is a six and a half point favorite detroit at home against the chicago bears and i don't know if you guys

saw this today kelvin shepherd the defensive coordinator of the detroit lions gave one of the most bizarre press conferences i think i've ever seen where he was just like yeah out crazed answers at the media when they were asking questions. And I got to say, not exactly the look that you're going for after getting dog walked in the first week and your defense looks pretty clueless against the Green Bay Packers. And then you come out with this strange, and maybe he's just never spoken to the media before. I don't know.

But is that how anybody else does it? Like you guys have seen the clips of KOC, Brian Flores, West Phillips, Matt Daniels. Do they talk like lunatics up there? Usually not. That is kind of a red flag of someone who maybe is a tad defensive about how their team played in week one. But Detroit is under the gun here right away with this game because if they lose to Chicago and Green Bay

and start out Owen Tombstone against two NFC North teams, especially one that is a much maligned Chicago Bears team that just blew a lead and gave up three touchdowns in the fourth quarter and their quarterbacks having 30,000 word articles written about how much of a mess he is and everything else. Chicago wins that game at Ford Field in their home opener and suddenly all that questioning of Detroit looks pretty smart. So this is a big one, but Vegas clearly pushing toward Detroit. And I also think that if you're the Lions, after watching Washington get taken apart by the defense of Green Bay that now looks like hands down the best defense in the National

Football League. You might feel a little bit better like, oh, well, they just did that to a guy who was in the NFC championship. And you can't say enough about how impressive Green Bay's defense has been with Michael Parsons. Of course, on this show, we don't crown anybody until they deserve to be crowned. But that was a heck of a performance. And also was pretty revealing. about Washington and some of the shortcomings that they may have on their offensive line, some of the shortcomings that they may have on their defense as well in that game. But this is a huge one for Detroit. They need to win or it's kind of all-out panic mode. You've got Buffalo and the New York Jets interested to see Justin Fields. The

bills could not handle a running quarterback in week one. He was a much better running quarterback. Still, the Jets put up points in their opener. And now Buffalo goes to New York, looking to play some better defense. Giants and Cowboys, I will not be watching. Moving on. Saints 49ers. Not a chance. New England and the Dolphins.

When are the good games? Wow, this is a slate with some rough matchups. Now, here's one I'm interested in. The Jaguars in the Bengals, the Jaguars last week, I know it was against Carolina, but you've got my attention. Jaguars. Travis Hunter's playing as a wide receiver. They've got Brian Thomas, an emerging star.

Trevor Lawrence looked a little better last week. And Cincinnati looked pretty darn rough. Cincinnati on the Viking schedule in week three. So this is one I will be watching a lot, actually, to prepare, start the preparation for that game. If Cincinnati at home does not play well offensively against the Jags, then wow, right? Like, then they're going to come to U.S. Bank Stadium pretty desperate. In fact, I think you'd probably rather, from a Vikings perspective, see them just blast the Jaguar, by 20 points, be like, okay, well, you know, they're not coming in as a cornered animal,

as a cornered bengal, but, well, what a cat match up, by the way. That one, though, you know, the Bengals, I don't know what it is with their slow starts to seasons. It's pretty wild. But they've got an opportunity to kind of bounce back from an ugly win against the Browns. And the jaguars just have, you know, a good amount of talent. And I think they probably did under Doug Peterson, too, and just fell apart as kind of a culture.

Here's a good one. Seattle at Pittsburgh. Seattle, tough game against San Francisco, Pittsburgh, A-A-A-Ron trying to do what he can to continue last week. Really good offensive game playing against the Jets, but there are the Jets. Seattle has a much better defense. Indianapolis and the top scoring Indianapolis Colts and Daniel Jones against Denver, where Bo Nix didn't play that well and they just played Tennessee, got a fairly easy win. that one, you know, I think that Indianapolis does have a lot of talent and if Daniel Jones can execute their offense, but they're going against the top notch defense. So that one actually might be a like rockam-sockham game. Carolina, Arizona, not that interested. And Eagles and chiefs at Kansas City as the lead in to Atlanta and Minnesota. That one, again, you have my attention. And with Kansas City, it is on them to show that they,

are still Kansas City in this game by beating the Eagles. And it's not like they got murdered by Kansas City or by Los Angeles in the first week, but they just looked so like, how do you describe this? Like Swiss cheese. Like there was a lot of good stuff there, but there's a lot of holes. That's what they looked like in the first week on their defense. Can they create pass rush? Can they slow down Sequan Barkley?

Can they cover anybody? I didn't see a lot of that in week one as Justin Herbert was lighting them up. And on the offensive side, are they going to find themselves in a hole here? I mean, if they lose a couple of games, they could suddenly be human without their top two wide receivers, Xavier Worthy and Rashi Rice. So that one should be a good game. Philadelphia didn't play perfect against Dallas. In fact, Philadelphia could have lost that game against Dallas.

They didn't run as effectively. And you're wondering, is the offensive line quite the same as it was last year as Sequin Bar. the same as he was last year. A lot of storylines there. And they may even show your guys favorite pop star at the game. And I know you guys get very excited about that. So that will be a good one as well. And what do we got here?

We got multiple Monday night games. Is that what's going on? Monday night? Two Monday night games, huh? Both look like they could be pretty good. I want to watch the Raiders. The Raiders are a team. really want to watch. And they are playing against the Los Angeles Chargers.

Ooh, that should be a good one. Yeah, that should make for a good Monday night. Well, that means, you know what that means? I'm going to have to kick off the stream early so I can make sure I watch both of those games. So look forward to that on Monday. So there are some of your most interesting games. And the line for Philadelphia on Fandul and Kansas City is 1.5 favorite for Philly. You almost never see that at Kansas City. That is an interesting one. And just if you were curious. The Bengals, three and a half point favorites against the Jaguars. Steelers are three point favorites against Seattle and Indianapolis, two and a half point underdog to Denver. So, uh, Fandul, not exactly buying the start of Daniel Jones. They were giving more credit to

the Miami Dolphins. So there's some of the rundown, uh, of the games for this week and, uh, answer a couple more questions. And then, uh, we could get to Stephen Ruiz of the ringer to close out the night. So KMAX says good part returning, strong interior lines, rookie scale quarterback, waited a long time for these. And now they have them all. No, you're right about that. KMack. I mean, I feel like as we were going through the roster year after year, it got redundant. Somebody asked me today in the mailbag, like, aren't you excited about this? And like, you guys know this. I'm always excited to cover football. But it sometimes, it did become redundant and frustrating to talk about, well, you know, they could have won that ball game if Kirk Cousins could

escape the rush. And, you know, if they only didn't have a guard who got destroyed by Akeem Hicks or Eddie Goldman or, you know, if they only had, I don't know how many times we ever said that they only had a punt returner, but, you know, maybe we thought about it. There was just a lot of things that this team interior rush was one that frustrated me for a while. I was laughing a bit today because also Digizua got an award. I think was he player of the week or something. I forget. He plays for Dallas and he was a guy that I had been interested in in the

2021 draft. And I was thinking about how many times they passed up on defensive tackles that might have become interior rushers. Now they have them and they were very, very good on Monday night. So you're right about that. that a lot of those boxes were checked. Will says, do we need to bring in another corner? Well, they did, but it's not a guy you've ever heard of.

And I just don't think that there's another big name corner who's on the way. I don't think that the cavalry, cavalry is coming of just a group of corners that are arriving to save you. You got what you got. And if you get to the, like, if you go to the free agency, on over the cap. It's guys that are 35 or haven't played in a while. You might be able to pick somebody up off another team's practice squad. You might be able to make a trade. But right now, it's not a desperate situation.

Losing Okuda is not a desperate situation. McLeodern versus Okuda, I don't even know how much of a drop off that is from someone who I didn't really trust to begin with in Okuda based on his career to someone who's not played before. Well, you know, 50 cents or a half. dollar, I think, but the starters are still in. They struggled in the first game. It's the first game. Both of those guys have played plenty in the NFL. Now, if Murphy goes down or Rogers goes down, then you have to start talking about it. I don't think they're talking about it just

yet for who to acquire. And you still have Fabian Morrow as well that no one ever gets excited about. But my thing is, Fabian Morrow is played just as well as any of the other guys you're talking about picking up. Um, so, anyway, uh, Jay Mulls, do you think that Derrissau isn't back at school as another terrible game? If Derrissau is not ready for the Bengals game, they'll give Walter Rouse a shot. I do think that that is plausible. We have seen them pull the trigger on some of those moves before, right? Like last year when Ed Ingram was struggling as much as he was,

that Dalton Reisner ends up coming up off the bench. They have not hesitated too much when they haven't liked how someone's performing to bench that player and then put somebody else in. It's just, you know, they evaluated Rouse all summer long, and I think he's a developing player, but they went out and got school intentionally for this. It would have to be a big struggle. And I agree with what Rob said earlier.

It was not good, but it also was not so bad that it was unplayable, unwatchable. It was not T.J. Clemmings. It was not some of the guys we've seen in the past. I think part of it is just some might have been matchup, some also for you watching it, is that you've seen the best over there for a long time and you're just used to nothing happening at the left tackle position.

So let's see. Is T-law ever going to break out? Who is T-Law? Am I missing someone who feels like we've even got a con- Who is who we talking about there? Uh, let's see, hope the, uh, mama says, hope the, uh, bears beat the lions. Caleb seems like a quarterback that will crash and burn when it matters later in the season, whereas I'd rather not have Jared Goff start racking up Ws.

No, I, I totally agree, mama. I, I totally agree on that. If you're the Vikings, you are rooting for Chicago. Chicago is not a serious contending team where Detroit, if they get some confidence and they get rolling, oh, they could be. They could resolve their interior. And I do think you have to grade on a curve now. After you've seen Green Bay demolished two teams that were in the divisional round of the playoffs last year,

one of them is in the NFC championship, and Green Bay's defense takes them apart, you have to figure that Detroit's probably better than what you saw at Green Bay. And if they beat the Bears and they're one of one and they get rolling, then there you go. And then you get rolling. Oh, Trevor Lawrence. Okay, sorry, Mom. I was like, who is T. I was trying to think of, like, Thai law?

he's in the Hall of Fame. But I was thinking my mind was at Vikings. It wasn't at Trevor Lawrence. I'll get that in a second. But I agree with you on just the like the bears are a nine win team at absolute best, probably more close to seven or eight where Detroit, they get hot. They could be a serious contender still.

They've still got enough talent. Like we can't write them off after one week. As far as Trevor Lawrence goes, I don't think that Trevor Lawrence will ever be the quarterback. that he was purported to be in the draft, I think that Trevor Lawrence can lead, he's already done it, can lead a team into the playoffs,

can play against another team in the playoffs and give his team a chance. And this is how the quarterbacks are separated now, as I'm leading into Stephen Ruiz and that interview about the quarterbacks and, you know, J.J. McCarthy and everything else, the quarterbacks are broken into sections now. You have the goats, the guys who are untouchable,

legends of the game, Lamar, Allen, Mahomes, Burrow. I put those four just in a totally different stratosphere as everybody else. And then after that, there is this group that are all kind of chunked together to me that any one of them could win. And they usually won't. But if they have the right year and the right circumstances, that's your Justin Herber, that's your Dak Prescott, that you always wonder, like, if Dak played for a more

competent team. If Dax's here, doesn't he throw for like 5,000 yards? I mean, he's really good, but that thing is a circus. So, you know, you got this group that can kind of go up or down. Jared Goff's in this group. I think Jordan loves in this group. And then you got the group below that sort of needs a miracle. Trevor Lawrence has kind of looked most times like he needs a miracle, but I think he belongs in that Jordan love. And I think he belongs in that Jared Goff and Dak Prescott, I think he belongs there much more than he belongs where he's been, which is in the group of just Need a Miracle, not that good. Jobless entrepreneur, hopefully you get to change that name soon.

Do you think that Derisaw was ready, but they're comfortable with him, with him out starting so soon? Well, yeah, I don't, I don't really know. Like, it was a little bit odd the whole, he was, you know, limited in practice, then full go last week. And then he is available for warmups because he's questionable, but then he's not questionable this week. And it seems like there's some rulebook involved that the explanation kind of got by me.

And I was having trouble really interpreting and understanding it, even after another question. But either way, with Derisaw, I just think. that you have to be as patient as possible and that these things are not always smooth when you're coming off an injury that's that serious so play him when he's fully ready to play if he started week four you still got 13 games to get christian derisaw and where do you really want to win i mean you really want to win the playoffs you got to make sure that he is good to go for an entire season so if it takes several more weeks uh i don't expect it to be four because otherwise they would have put him on IR to start the year.

But even if it's another week next week, not ideal, you have to survive it and work your way through it. That's all we can really do. Mr. Mayor, no one wants to be the guy who drafted a generational talent and Trevor Lawrence and then didn't sign him to his second contract. Yeah, that's true. But also he did show that he could get to the playoffs and win a playoff game and even pull a comeback.

I mean, think about that. Like, how would you feel if J.J. McCarthy did the same thing as Trevor Lawrence in what was his second year and pull the comeback and came within a play or two of beating Kansas City in the playoffs. You would be all in on that guy, even if he went through some other struggles. So I think that Lawrence has shown it at times, but I think with a guy like him, supporting cast is a huge deal. A guy like Josh Allen, it's not. He's out there throwing to Keon Coleman who's okay and Khalil Shakir was okay. And it's like, whatever. Guys are just going to bounce off him. It's not going to matter. But for somebody like Trevor Lawrence, it does. And I wouldn't wish being labeled

the generational talent on anybody coming out in the draft because then they just assume you're flawless and throw you right in even if you're not ready, as we saw from the Chicago Bears. So speaking of quarterbacks, let's end this evening. Great conversations, guys. Great discussion. Let's end this evening with Stephen Ruiz of the Ringer, who you can bet will drive you guys crazy ranking quarterbacks this year. But very detailed in his announcement. He also, well, you'll hear me talk about it, was out at training camp as well, a good friend of mine. So here is Stephen Ruiz. All right, we welcome into the show from The Ringer, actually an OG guest of this show.

Stephen Ruiz, I don't even remember who you worked for the first time you came on the show, Stephen, but now NFL analyst with the ringer and the man who lights up the internet with quarterback rankings. Let me tell you, Stephen, it is not an easy job to rank them quarterbacks because we get told a lot of lies by the NFL lies on week to week basis, lies in the off season. Oh, the guys got it all figured out this year in training camp. And then he comes out in the field that he doesn't or he does. There can be performances that are pumped up by, well, I don't know, one quarter of good play, etc. It's a, it's, it is the trickiest thing in sports. it is the most fascinating thing in sports, and you study it on a weekly basis.

And I was very happy to see you out at Vikings training camp. Stephen, you actually got to see the training camp practice that we talked about for weeks that J.J. McCarthy had. So why don't we just begin there with when you came out to Minnesota, what you saw from J.J. McCarthy, how that mesh with what you saw on Monday night, how you, how you feel and is the quarterback ranker, my friend? quarterback rankings are always tough especially with young quarterbacks that a fan base has has grown attached to and i can't complain about this phenomenon because you know i capitalize on it

like the quarterback rankings are as i don't i don't even know what word to use but they're as popular as they are because people are crazy about quarterbacks uh but what i saw out of jj and training camp like i was impressed i know we were chatting i think it was during the second practice where he really stepped it up i think he had a up and down day on the first day uh but command of the offense. I think he's, you know, layering has been a big thing all offseason. We saw a couple of those throws during the training camp. Compared to what I saw Monday night in Chicago, I mean, it's always going to be an apple store just comparison when you're comparing like practice to a game. But I think we, we saw some of the question marks pop up with him. We saw some of the things that were

just unknowable because we had never seen him play in an NFL game, like how he would manage an NFL pocket. You know, you knew there was going to be a work in progress. there. We didn't really see him have to layer the ball too much. So that's still like an open-ended question. But the resilience, like, it's undeniable. After having the start he had, and I don't think that was totally on him. I think the offense and the game plan just wasn't working at first. And then once they got the run game rolling in the second half, I think we saw why I think the Vikings coaches were excited about him and why I was optimistic about him coming into the season. I think I'd rather see it over four quarters of a game before I give him, you know, too much

credit for it, but it was encouraging that we saw that finish. It would have been much worse if we didn't see that fourth quarter. You know, the first couple of quarters as I'm there in Chicago, and I'm having the same reaction as everyone else, which is what is going on? And look, it's also you talk about undeniable. It's undeniable that he was shaky to start with the operation, which they talked about so much for the preseason game. Oh, he was great in and out of the huddle and doing a great job in practice in out of the huddle and then as kevin o'connell said the f-18s fly over the stadium and the national anthem kicks up and the actual chicago bears are coming to kill you and not your teammates who just yell sack as they run by you uh it's a very different experience but

the fact that he was not shaken by that and i kind of go back to watching early justin fields if someone wants an example of the opposite of this where it was a young quarterback that when he got into of those situations where it wasn't flowing for him, kind of disappeared, kind of wilted a bit. And that's one of the hardest things to do in the NFL is to keep pounding like that. I also thought Stephen, rewatching the game that even though the performance was not good early on, it wasn't that the decisions were horrible. I mean, they run, I brought this up yesterday on the show, they run a mesh concept where the receivers run directly into each other, which is, you know, not exactly pro level stuff there. And rather than just sort of,

of freaking out and being like, that football, J.J. McCarthy went, oh, my receivers just messed that up. I'm just going to take a sack or get a yard here or try to run a little bit. The fact that he didn't throw that game away as things were going so badly. And even the pick six, according to Kevin O'Connell and some other analysts is not even the worst decision. I thought his decision making was not bad in those moments. No, no. I think from a decision making standpoint, you didn't really see any red flags for me and like just to give you like the inside baseball behind the rankings this week I think he ended up dropping a little bit and it was more so like the guys below him kind of impressed me more than he like didn't impress me like Spencer Rattler I thought

had a great game I know people are complaining about him being ahead of McCarthy but just go watch the Cardinals game and then Cam Ward I thought was fantastic the tape is good but for him the things that I docked him points I just docked him one point in accuracy because I thought the ball placement wasn't there I think he's like macro level accuracy was fine. And I looked at this after I graded him, but he was like third and inaccurate catchable ball rate based on PFS grading. So take that for what it is. And then the other thing was just pocket management. It's not necessarily like I thought like the mesh concept you mentioned. I think that was like near the beginning of the game. Like I thought he handled that situation well. But for me it was

more like taking advantage of space in the pocket and navigating. I think like the one sack, it might have been the last sack he took in the second half where he drops back like 11 yards that does not help his tackles out at all. Nailer, I think, wins on the outside. So he would have had an opportunity for a touchdown and he takes a sack. I think, and then like the bat at balls and not being able to find throwing windows, I think that's where my concern is from the pocket management standpoint of things. So it was just like little thing, like the accuracy and the pocket management and we didn't get to see like the full gamut of his strength. Like the game management stuff wasn't necessarily there because it is his first start. I got to, you got to give him a break

for that give him some grace for that but yeah it was it was an interesting performance for him and i i think it was just one that where it's like all right we still have question marks about him going forward it wasn't like super informative outside of like the resilience part which is a big box to check just not a box that i'm accounting for in my rankings right no and i totally agree and he mentioned yesterday about getting to the right depth in his drop so i think he was probably referring uh to the same play that you're talking about and it was ballpark accuracy and not pinpoint accuracy. Justin Jefferson had two drops, but neither one of those drops were an accurate throw. And if they are accurate throws, then it's not one that you're

asking him to slide down to the ground or to jungle, which Jefferson catches those. And he's one of the reasons that you're always comfortable with whoever's playing quarterback, but those are not great throws from McCarthy. And he did have a couple other ones that were very impressive. I thought his touchdown throw to Jefferson, who just takes on double coverage like nobody else and snaps off that route. And then it's a dot to the right spot to him in the end zone. So there was, I think, some high level velocity throws from J.J. McCarthy for when we're talking about, well, can he give the ball, you know, that oomph behind it? Like, I think he can. We were having a discussion on the show the other night just about the way that he throws the football.

this was something some folks criticized when he came out about him putting his body behind it and how much he puts behind it. I'm curious what you think of that. Yeah. I mean, I think it could be an issue, but I think there's like upside to it also. Like we see the power he generates. I almost compare him to like a middle infielder throwing the football, like a shortstop, just ripping a throw to the first baseman. You definitely see some of that. And I think there's a give and take there. I think like he gets extra power on the throw that you wouldn't expect out of a guy his frame, but then you also have the touch questions that we've all been asking, the layering questions. And I think that's where it comes out of cost. And I think

there is a chance that he can balance those two things and get the best of both worlds. But again, the guy is like what, 22, 23 years old. He's seen him play one NFL start. So it's always hard to like place these these talking points on a guy because they tend to stick. Like even like the, even on looking at the other side of it, like the good part of Monday night and the resilience and the fourth quarter of comeback. Like imagine your first time ever watching Kirk Codding was the Colts come back. You'd be like, oh, my God, this guy is, like, the most resilient quarterback of all time. I want him leading my locker room.

And, like, if you watch the rest of Kirk Cousin's career and followed it, I don't think you would have that sentiment. So it's just a, we owe, it's week one, and it's fun to do this. And we always read into stuff too much, especially with one game sample side. But I think we saw some positives and I think we saw some negatives and some things that will cause us to kind of just question what are the strengths and weaknesses of his game. And there's only one way to find out, and that's to watch the football. Yeah, right. And I totally agree with you that the number of answers on how he's actually going to play quarterback when you get 20 pass attempts is not really a very high. When it comes to his throwing, I agree that sort of benefits and drawbacks because the velocity he put on that ball. So normally you would throw that to Jefferson slightly earlier. And we're talking milliseconds, but there's nobody that can get to it with how fast it's traveling. So like it's ever so slightly late, but it's also going so fast that.

it hits him, I think, in the landmark, which is just going to be a little bit different from a quarterback. Like Tom Brady had this super quick, you know, release that that ball would have been out. But I also think in other instances, it will require him because it takes a little bit longer for his wind up to play with some more anticipation. And I just think that's going to have to be how he works through this. And he's going to grow and he's going to get stronger. And he's probably five years away from his maximum, you know, strength with this, which I guess leads us, it leads us to another question of now, like, how does Kevin O'Connell navigate the coming weeks? Because I think the best version of J.J. McCarthy is when O'Connell ran more of Sam Darnold's

stuff, more of like deep play action, that outrout that he throws that, I don't know, what does that mean, like a 17-yard gain, but he probably throws the ball 40 yards in the air. And it's not, right, it was on a line to the sideline, perfect spot. I mean, he's got the arm to make all these throws that are intermediate area and downfield. I think O'Connell's going to have to throw out the three-yard mesh and focus on those throws that work for McCarthy. Yeah, and I think it goes back to what you were talking about with the timing and him kind of having to make up for some time with the arm strength. I think you saw it on the Thieland drop. I guess you can call it a drop, but he's laid on that one because he takes an extra

little hitch and then the ball is kind of high, which makes it a contested catch situation. I know Thelan should catch that ball. He's a professional, but the quarterback needs to throw a ball that makes it easier to catch. But I think you hit it on the head. I think you kind of tamped on the quick game stuff and you go for the big shots because that's what you it's easier to get him a clear throwing window which I think is when he's at his best when there's not a defender between him and the receiver and we saw that on the Jefferson throw you mentioned you kind of saw it on the Jefferson touchdown throw and then even on that throw like he didn't have the cleanest pocket and I think that just speaks to his ability of when he could rip a throw like he can rip a throw

better than as well as anyone as well as any young quarterback but what I saw in the second half like how the game kind of turned around it wasn't necessarily McCarthy for me because like you said like it wasn't that bad in the first half it was just like what was happening around him but once they figured out how to run the football and like they went away from the outside zone stuff with Aaron Jones and got to like the duo and like some counter stuff with Jordan Mason I think that just opened up the game and you just have to live be able to live in that style of offense which is not rare for a young quarterback I don't think that's an indictment of who JJ McCarthy is I think speaks to his skill set and what he brings to the table right now and why you draft him first

overall. You just have to be able to maintain one, a running game. It doesn't have to be productive. Like I think that's where the play action and run and the relationship between the two kind of gets complicated. It's not that you have to run the ball to be able to run play action. It's just that you have to be able to present the threat where the defense has to respect it and has to play the coverages that allow those play action shots to get open. If they're playing like too deep and like, you know, matchy stuff, then you're not getting open on play action. And if you're playing base cover three

because you can't stop the run and you need that extra guy in the box, you don't want to worry about coverage, then those deep crossers and those outbreakers off play action, they get open. So I think it's just about maintaining that threat. I don't think the run game has to be special. I just think it has to be viable.

And I think it was shown a little bit. I mean, some of these, there's so many different looks at different statistics. And there was one that was quite a while ago, that said, well, teams that don't run that successfully still have good play actions. But I also think that you can see it out there from the other team when Jordan Mason rips off a seven-yard run, an 18-yard run, that there's a leaning in sort of factor. There's, if you're a linebacker, if you're a safety, you, you are not like, oh, well,

just this is fine, especially with the violence in which Jordan Mason runs. Nobody wants to get hit by that at full speed as he's coming into the second. And we saw this with Delvin Cook when Gary Kubiak and Kevin Stefanski were here. When you're succeeding, it feels like there's a, I don't know, a momentum element to it. The defense starts to get a little anxious. And that's when you take advantage of linebackers and safeties and you can create those windows. I think those plays also really work for the quarterback moving the spot to throw the football. You mentioned some of the balls getting batted down, like getting him on the move a little bit,

away from the pressure a little bit and it's kind of funny because Kevin O'Connell won the Super Bowl with Matthew Stafford in this wide open offense. It was not a run and build off the play action. They just said Matthew Stafford, you sit in that shotgun and do everything. And then he did that a lot with Kirk Cousins over the first two years as well. I mean, those are veteran quarterbacks. This has to be a little bit more of Mike Shanahan, a little bit more of Kyle Shanahan with Brock purdy, where you are pounding it. And I think what O'Connell may be really, realized, too, is, oh, yeah, I have a better interior offensive line than I had before. And I think that they can lean on that run game. He's just got to believe in it. It really comes down

to that. Yeah, and I wonder if the run game, like the base run game would look better with your left tackle out there. I think like part of the problem with running the outside zone and marrying it with the boot game is like you have a right-handed quarterback. So you want to boot to the right. That means you have to run to the left most of the time. If you want to sell the fake and when you don't have your all pro left tackle out there, it becomes a problem. And you saw that in this game, like the left tackle position struggled, and they were struggling to get to the second level.

Sewell was just making unblock tackles, like, at will in the first half. But, yeah, I'm with you there. And I just think, like, I do think the run game is going to come along. And I think they're going to be able to marry this thing. I think it's going to look more like the fourth quarter going forward than it is going to look like the first half. I think they just had to work through some stuff. And then now that they know,

You know, this is where our bread is going to be buttered. I think they're going to be better for it going forward. And I think JJ is going to, we're going to see the JJ that I think I expected to see for the season, the more of the game manager style. And I'm not using that as like a derogatory term. I think that's one of his strengths. And that's one of the reasons you drafted them. Well, I know.

And I made a comparison that nobody likes to hear because Alex Smith never got over the hump and never won the Super Bowl. And if you remember, you know, every year, if you don't win the Super Bowl, you're just the biggest loser of all time and all that sort of stuff. But early Alex Smith with San Francisco made enough plays with his legs, made enough plays in the passing game, wasn't perfectly accurate. They ran the ball well. This defense, as you saw, is pretty darn fantastic.

If you play like San Francisco, Alex Smith, you're going to win a lot of football games. And I think for him, you can do that well developing along the way to be in a different spot in an ideal world as you go into the playoffs. Now the Vikings are playing the Atlanta Falcons, another national TV game for J.J. McCarthy, not, not exactly the Speer Odidas game on CBS with three cameras or whatever. I mean, this is the big stage for him against Michael Penix. Michael Penix was my favorite quarterback coming out. Not I would have drafted him number one, but my favorite quarterback to watch. He's so much fun, huge arm, never takes sacks. He just is unafraid to rip it into any window. So I am a Pennix enjoyer, and so I'm looking forward to this matchup, but Pennix versus this defense, I think it should be really, really, really fascinating. What do you think of what you saw from Pennix in the first week now that he's had a full training camp, and this is his big sort of second year versus the Brian Flores defense?

I was really impressed with Flores in week one. Like, if you go back and watch that tape, he was getting rid of the ball quickly on time, on target, and I think that's the big thing with him. his accuracy. I think there's also like the similar question with JJ with like the velocity's there, but what about the touch? And that remains to be seen. I think Atlanta did a really good job of like not forcing him to make touch throws over the second level. So you're going to see a bit of the same on both sides. But I'm really impressed. And I was not like the hugest, the biggest fan of Pennix coming out of the draft. Not that I didn't like him. I was just like, all right,

you know, he's an older prospect. He has the knee injuries. He doesn't really move that well. Or he He doesn't use his mobility, at least. I think he ran like a four or five at his pro day. But I'm coming around on him. And I think he's one of those guys that can be, if you can give him a clean pocket, I think he's going to cook. I think there's a little bit of Gino in there where he's going to make the throws. He has a little bit of a rational confidence, but he has the arm strength to back it up.

So I'm excited to see those two kind of go head to head. And I think it's a good measuring stick for each guy, like where they're at. But a Flores defense, man, that's quite the test. That's quite the test. which is why I thought people were a little harsh on Caleb. Like, I know that there were misses that were, like, terrible, like three of them. But outside of that, I thought he handled the Flores defense as well as you can expect any young quarterback to handle it.

And I think we're going to get a different style of quarterback going up against it, one that doesn't move as often, one that maybe is a little more confident in what he's seen, and it will pull the trigger quickly. But it's going to be fascinating to see how that works because I've seen both sides of it. I've seen like Justin Herbert tear up the Flores defense a couple years ago with just like a laser show. all over the field. I'm interested to see if Pennix is there and at that level yet.

He definitely has the arm strength to kind of replicate that performance. So I don't know if he has the pocket savvy to do it, though. Right. The quarterbacks who have given him the most trouble are Jared Gough, Matthew Stafford, and that game against Justin Herbert. My goodness. I think Keenan Allen might have had 18 catches in that game. And Herbert was like 40 for 47.

I've never seen anything quite like that. But there's something in common with all of those quarterbacks. one, they get rid of the football, and number two, they are experienced. And that's where Pennix coming into U.S. Bank Stadium, I think it's one of the few stadiums remaining in the NFL that has a legitimate impact on the opposing quarterback. And the getoff for the edge rushers and the interior players is just different at U.S. Bank Stadium. I looked at this in terms of the gap of sacks at home, sacks away.

Pittsburgh had a big gap. And the Vikings were one of the teams that had gaps as well. But Pennix is so good at getting rid of the football. Like, what do you think it is about him? Because in college, the guy took a sack like once every 150 snaps or something. What is it about him that allows him to not have those big negative plays? I think it's the confidence. Like I said, he doesn't really move too much in the pocket.

But it's like a Jared golf situation where like I'm getting rid of the ball on time and I'm going to make a good throw. Like I don't need to really move. And I think they're like we said about JJ's throwing style, their drawbacks to it. There are upsides to it. And I think we're going to see maybe some of the drawbacks against a chaotic pocket because you know Flores is going to be able to create that environment and put that on the quarterback. So I think this is a real test.

And I think we're going to see like the true measure and maybe like the weaknesses are going to, we're going to shine a light on them. And I don't want to overreact to it because it is a Flores defense. And I think Atlanta's offensive line is going to be overmatched in this one. But it is an informative and useful thing to watch with a young quarterback. I look, it's not going to be linear. He's not just going to have great games every, every week. Right.

And that's the hard part about this still with these guys and even with Caleb Williams. Now, I reacted to Caleb Williams performance just like everyone else, which is that kind of looked the same way that it looked last year. But at the same time, we will talk about, oh, yeah, it clicked for Jalen Hertz and Josh Allen in year three, but also Monday night tells us every single thing about you and Sunday night tells us everything about you. As you said, it wouldn't be the NFL if we didn't do it that way. You mentioned fans not being too happy with your Spencer Rattler ranking. What else was stirring the crowds after week one with your quarterback article? I flipped Sam Darnold and Brock

Purdy, even though Brock Purdy won. I thought Sam Darnel played an excellent game. I don't know a Vikings fan checked in on their ex quarterback, but I know he had the fumble at the end, but outside of that, it was like the same darnel we saw last year. They just didn't, you know, pass the football a lot. They ran the foot to Shanahan offense. They're going to run it first, and it didn't really work out. But I thought Darnel played a great game against San Francisco. So that was one.

There wasn't too much movement at the around because it's week one and I don't like to overact. So it was really McCarthy and the 49ers fans, which is nothing new for me. I've been hearing from 49ers fans for a couple years. now. Yeah, yeah, well, the Brock Purdy thing is, is a curious case because, and now he's hurt, which is going to impact San Francisco quite a bit. It's a curious case because he, I think has some certain things that J.J. McCarthy that we praise him for, command of the offense and decision making and a little baller nature to him doesn't have the most impressive physical tools. And

we've also seen throughout history that every once in a while, and I'm going to come up with the dumbest reference, like the oldest reference I can. But Washington, 1992, or was it 91, 92, 901. So they had this insane offense. And Mark Rippin won the Super Bowl and was just one of the best quarterbacks in the league. The next year, they struggle. And they, I think, barely make the playoffs or miss the playoffs.

They had Gary Clark and Art Monk and Ricky Sanders in this innovative offense. And everything just worked for him. And the hardest thing to figure out when we're watching is, is, is that one of those things where I should have just used case Keenham. But for some reason, my brain goes to 91 Washington, but like we've seen this through history, right? And no one thought the case Keenom was going to keep doing what he did. But he had he played excellent football. I think he was like PFF seventh highest graded quarterback that year, had good statistics, but sometimes it just comes together for you with San Francisco and Brock Purdy. Now he's hurt.

They're, they're in a lot of trouble. Uh, I wondered what you. thought about the Rams and Matthew Stafford's performance because when I saw how many points they scored, I was like, oh, that must have been pretty gnarly. And then I looked at how he played. I was like, how did they only score 14 points? I have had the Rams as one of the teams to watch as far as Super Bowl contenders out of the NFC. If Stafford can hold up. What did you think of that game? If you have an NFL pro account, like go and watch Matthew Stafford and watch the ends of it was insane like especially after everything we've heard about is back during training

camp and all that and missing training camp i had i had the same question marks i was like i don't know about this guy kind of dropped him a couple spots of my preseason rankings just because i wasn't sure about what we would see and now it was old matthew stafford again and i think the thing is they were playing the texans defense which i think is maybe the best defense of the league i've been joking this week and i've been like that 20 point performance translates to 35 points against every other team in the NFL. But he was amazing. He would have been my pick for NFC player of the week, personally,

not to offend Vikings fans further. But it was a great game in, like, just everything you want to see out of a Matthew Stafford game in terms of Arn Talent and all that. And then on the defense, the defense was, and it's like the opposite effect. Like they're playing the Texans offensive lines or take it with the grain of salt.

But Byron Young and Jared Verst, like those guys look dominant in this game. And I really think the Rams have a chance of winning that division. I was skeptical of them just because of the Matthew Stafford stuff and all the question marks around that. It's easy to forget that like back in January, there's there was trade demands or trade requests and all that. But after one week, I might be sold on them. I think that they are the best coach team in the NFL and they have the weapons. And if Pukkahua is healthy, I don't know what you do with him.

He's the guy that he's not on video game covers. I never see him in commercials. I never see him in interviews. and yet 10 catches on 11 targets. The Vikings played against them last year and got absolutely shredded by that guy. He is an unstoppable force. And then you add Devante Adams to that. Like that's, yeah, to me, that's the most complete team.

The Vikings are in this conversation is sort of like right behind that, but they've got to prove it. And Stafford has in the NFC North. Let's just touch on those guys, Jared Gough and Jordan Love. Jordan Love didn't have to do a whole lot. Every single wide receiver was wide open. I thought that any quarterback could have had a good game in that game, which made me think that Detroit defensive coordinator is going to have to go back to the drawing board a little bit. So not much in terms of conclusions from Jordan Love.

Maybe if you disagree with that, tell me. But Jared Goff, I'd be very worried because his kryptonite was right there on display. And I think everybody is just going to attack that middle all season long. What did you think of those two performances? Yeah, now I'm with you on the love thing. I don't think it was like any new information. It wasn't something that like made me reassessed my priors or anything. There were a lot of open throws.

I thought he had a couple of impressive like displays of armed talent. But there were a couple of like shaky accuracy passes. So like, yeah, I'm with you there. Didn't move the needle for me. The Jerikov thing, like I think I saw you tweet it like when the inside of that pocket isn't what it was like Jerikov looks normal and I would totally agree with you. And I think that was the big deal in this game like when you watch. on the offensive side for Detroit.

The offensive line, like, it wasn't what it was last year. And it's not just, like, a pocket protection thing. Like, even in the run game, there are a lot of, like, missed assignments in terms of, like, who should be blocking who. I know the Packers did a lot to kind of confuse them there. But we didn't see that when Ben Johnson was coordinating the offense. And to your point about the defense, like, I thought that was a questionable plan from, which I think is named Kelvin Shepard, first year coordinator.

it reminded me of the commander's playoff game where they just kept like sending five and six man pressures against like you know plays that are designed to exploit those exact pressures and there was just wasn't an adjustment I thought that Green Bay had a great plan against the man coverage that you know you're going to see against the Lions there was no adjustments there so I was worried about the lines coming in because they lost the coordinators because what happened to their interior offensive line and how that would affect Jericho off directly and like after one week I I feel pretty smart. I'm batting myself on the back because every problem that you worried about popped up in this game.

Yeah, I think really with Jared Goff, there is a very clear kryptonite for him in his career. The year that they give up on him in Los Angeles, they are one of the worst ranked offensive lines in the league. And then Stafford comes in. They rebuilt it. And I'm sure Goff was like, really? Really? That's the offensive line. But then they build it up in Detroit.

And then all of a sudden, he's the leading the number one offense. the NFL, Jared Goff type of player. Okay, as we go forward here, into the future, we haven't resolved everything after week one in the National Football League. What excited you to find out in the future about quarterbacks this season that like caught your attention in week one? And you said, I really want to see how this goes. I'm going to say Justin Fields.

Justin Fields having success with the Jets. and like I didn't watch I didn't have like eyes directly on that game through when it was on live and I was just like assuming oh it's probably a not like I saw the production I'm like oh it's probably a nonsense game like we've seen chess and fields have big games before but like you go back and watch the tape and just his calm in the pocket it wasn't great like it wasn't like oh this is one of the the most calm pocket boys quarterbacks in the league but it was way better than it was in Chicago and I thought the accuracy was better I think he's still throwing the ball way too hard at times especially in quick games. but I'm more interested in like the the floor and ceiling debate with quarterback prospects and what gives a guy a high floor and what gives a guy a high ceiling. And my theory has been like if you have a guy who can run and you can build a run game around him and you get those coverages we were talking about earlier where it's easier to do the play acting stuff and the easy stuff quote unquote for quarterbacks, that that gives you a pretty high floor rather than like a Mack Jones where you have to run quick game

and he's got to be perfect to go to go on touchdown drives. Those used to be the guys we considered the high floor guys, the pro-ready guys. So I really want to see how far the Jets could push this theory. Because I think Fields, even though, like I said, he showed some improvement, he's still like what, maybe at his best, like the 20th best quarterback in the NFL. But in terms of athleticism and being able to build a run game around a quarterback, I'd say he's top five. So and the Jets have the offensive line to take advantage of that.

I'm really interested to see how they kind of evolve throughout the season, how the offense evolves. and if defenses catch up to this and, like, are able to put the clamps down on the run game and what that, what effect that has on the passing game, I think it's a very interesting, like, testing ground for not only just quarterback development, but like how we should view quarterback prospects and quarterback skill sets. Yeah, I was watching quite a bit of that game and I thought, you know, coaching does matter quite a bit. I thought they just nailed it with the right way to manage Justin Fields. Okay, last question. I saved it till last because Vikings fans don't really like hearing. his name, but I figured I have to ask what you thought what on was. A-A-Ron, the Vikings

play him in week four. Is he back? You're fine. Yeah, don't worry about it. Like, he was, he was fine. Like, I think he had like a four-a-dot, like a four-yard ad dot, like a lot of screen passes, maybe the most screen passes in the NFL. He had the, the Calvin Austin touchdown off play action was very impressive. Like, I did not think he had that in his game still. He kind of faded away and it had plenty of zip on it, but watch the pressure dropbacks, and it's like, all right, this isn't the guy that he used to be. And that used to be what separated him from, like he used to be able to do the Tom Brady-Jew-Bree's distributor,

point guard, run the offense thing. But what separated him was his ability to extend plays and really break a defense's heart after they thought they had the play covered. And that ability is just totally wiped out. And you even saw it in this game. I thought they did a good job. Like, I don't know. have what to think about the Jets defense because we thought about the Jets of being like a defensive first team but like their scheme is totally changing and their defense wasn't very good after Robert Sala left last year. So like this could just be a situation where he's playing a bad defense and he looks good because of that. But I there's no reason to like readjust what you think of him going forward. I think like it's the Aaron Rogers you would have expected in the off season. I thought that if the Jets made a couple of tackles, it would have been okay. Like they were in the general location of the screens, but a lot.

lot of the explosives did come off of plays where Aaron Rogers didn't do much. At the same time, I kind of thought of Arthur Smith and Ryan Tannehill, you got some pretty darn good seasons out of that guy. If he could just execute the screens, the play actions to a big hulking wide receiver. So terrified, no, but Rogers did have a couple of those throws where on the TV, it's moving pretty quick. You're like, oh, okay, he can still sling it. Got said a lot by people who wanted rogers to play for the vikings um last thing for you who is winning the wnba finals i know you are a big w guy playoffs are coming up the links are the number one seed what are we thinking i know it's it doesn't look as good as it did at the beginning of the season but i'm sticking

with the links i'm sticking with the links like i'm not i'm not buying into the 14 game win streak from the aces like they've looked much better since they made the move like put julioly on the bench and all that. But I think in a playoff series, they're going to have the better coach. I think they have the best coach in the WMBA. Maybe one of the best coaches in basketball, I would say, like, regardless of level. Asia Wilson is very tough, but I still, I like that collection of players around the FISA. I'm going with the links. And I'm pretty confident in it, actually, because I just think the Liberty were the one team that I was worried about beating the links. And I just haven't seen it this year. They've gotten a little bit healthier recently. And I just, I don't think they have. I don't think they have the defensive just structure to kind of deal with Minnesota for a full

series. So, yeah, I'm sticking with the links. Well, and the links have been the number one seat for so long. I mean, they're resting the Fisa Collier. They're arresting Atlanta Smith. I mean, it's sort of like a team that goes 14 and 0. And then you're like, well, what do we do now? Like we've locked up our division. We've locked up our conference. What do we do? Do we rest starters for the last three weeks? And I don't think there's been the same intensity. But you know, this team is going to ramp it up when it comes to the playoffs. Very, very excited. about that and excited to see where the quarterback rankings go at the ringer, Stephen Ruiz. Great stuff, man. It was great to see you this summer out at camp. And hopefully we get

a chance to bump into each other again very soon. Thanks for coming on the show again, man. Thanks for having me anytime.