Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Star Tribune's Andrew Krammer talks Vikings QB options with McCarthy, Wentz

Episode Date: September 20, 2025

The Minnesota Star Tribune's Andrew Krammer joins the show for this week's hardcore breakdown of Vikings-Bengals. The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, presented by Fandul. Matthew Collar here. And coming up in just a moment, my conversation with Andrew Kramer from inside TCO Performance Center, where we hardcore breakdown Vikings versus Bengals. But first, today out at TCO Performance Center, Kevin O'Connell announced that Andrew Van Ginkle and Christian Derisaw would be questionable for this game between the Vikings and the Bengals. They will not have Ryan Kelly, which means that Michael Jurgens will step in at center. When it comes to Derisaw, it has been Derisaw watch now going on a couple of weeks and still remains unclear whether he's going to play.

We did have a chance to catch up with Derisaw in the locker room after practice. And I'm going to read you some of his quotes. And I guess you can all tell me whether this sounds like a guy. who's going to play this week against the Bengals. Derisaw said, we'll see how I feel tomorrow. And when Sunday comes, I want to be out there. But I know I have to be smart when I'm ready. I promise you I'll be back out there.

He also said that he has to trust his body and said, quote, it's early in the year. And when I'm ready, I know I'll be ready. He said, my body will tell me when I'm ready to go. And added that he said, my knee is reconditioning to how to play. my stance is unique talking about how he gets lower to the ground than a lot of tackles. And he did say that he was comfortable playing with the brace. I do wonder about that though with him because he said he has not played with a brace on his knee since he was in

college. So is he truly ready to go out there and play with a brace against Trey Hendrickson, one of the best pass rushers in the NFL? So there's another thing to talk about here too, which is throughout the week, we've probably discussed this as a, if Justin School comes back or Walter Rouse, but there could be another option as well that I wanted to mention, which is Blake Brandl. I would not be shocked if Blake Brandl ended up being the starting left tackle for this game. He started 17 games last year.

He's been in the NFL for years. And in 2022, when Derrissau went out, Brandl was the guy who went in. And I think that if Walter Rouse was facing another rookie or inexperienced, Russia, it would be okay, but the fact that it's going to be Hendrickson and that guy has 17.5 sacks last year, 14 pressures already this year. That might be a lot to ask, although it's also a lot to ask maybe for Brandl. So we'll have to see, but that may be the better option for the Vikings if Derisaw does not go. We will find out at game time whether Christian

Derisaw is going to play. But I did not feel like those comments scream to me. baby, I'm back. Let's go play football. It's still a little bit tentative from Christian Derisaw. So we remain on Derisaw watch. They could really, really use him for this game. And we'll just have to wait and see because both he and Kevin O'Connell were not definitive today talking about whether he's back. Another guy they absolutely need is Andrew Van Ginkle. Him being questionable. Also makes you wonder whether he's going to be out there or if it will be another week of Dallas Turner, who I thought at times rose to the challenge and at other times maybe was out there longer than he's ever been and got worked sometimes in the run game. Either way, Dallas Turner

remains a big player for this team. And it does not seem that promising with Harrison Smith either. Now, Harrison said to us two weeks ago that the reason he didn't go on IR was that he didn't think it would take four weeks for him to get back. But he was limited in practice all week. I don't know if that's the greatest sign for him coming back. They could certainly use his intellect and playmaking as well against the Cincinnati Bengals. And on Cincinnati side, they're going to be without Shamar Stewart, their top draft pick in this game as well. So Vikings and Cincinnati Bengals, let's get the hardcore breakdown now. And let me get you for the comment section, a fan dual question of a day, which is Jordan Mason has the best odds in this game to score a touchdown.

at minus 130 on Fanduil, what type of performance do you need from Jordan Mason for the Vikings to win this football game? Make sure you leave your answers in the comments there. And now on to my discussion with Andrew Kramer. Hey, everybody, welcome inside TCO Performance Center. Matthew Collar here along with Andrew Kramer, the Star Tribune, for our weekly hardcore preview, which has super accurately predicted the results of both football games. exactly how they play out. So this is the show for you. I'll tell you, well, we can't actually predict the future, but we can look at the matchups that will dictate success or failure. And I do remember us saying something about the left tackle position being pretty important last week

against the Atlanta Falcons, where I probably underestimated them was just how much they were going to do schematically and how their first round picks were going to rise to the challenge. So Cincinnati Bengals, Andrew, is it underestimating these cats when it comes to saying that the Minnesota Vikings have a better overall football team? And with Jake Browning out, they should go into this expecting to win. Yeah, I see what you did there with the cat thing. I like it. Rar. Yeah, I think this Bengals roster, Matt, when you look at how the Vikings and Bengals have drafted, at least defensively, they both have not been great.

difference is the Vikings were the top spending team in free agency this off season. They brought in a bunch of guys after having that great free agent class from a year ago with Grenard and Cashman and Van Ginkle and all them. So yeah, the Vikings are much more talented. They're at home. They should absolutely win this game. And even though they're making a switch at quarterback, and even though Jake Browning is going to be more experienced with his teammates and with his own system than Carson Wentz is going to be. And we don't know who's going to be playing left tackle. It could be Walter Rouse. It could be Christian Darrasaw. It could be Michael Juergens, most likely it would seem starting at center in front of Carson Wins. I still think

this Sincey defense, when you look at the guys they have or don't have, they lost Jermaine Pratt, one of their best linebackers last offseason. They bring in T.J. Slayton, a mediocre nose guard from Green Bay. You watched the film of the Bengals Jaguars game last week. I was very underwhelmed by that defense. Jacksonville's issues on offense had much to do with just them shooting themselves in the foot, and Brian Thomas seemingly being injured and not playing very well. So, yeah, I think this Vikings team is set up, at least offensively, to do well. The thing that worries me about this matchup is Jake Browning has shown not only in

2003, but last week, he can go win you a game if you keep it close. And this Vikings team does not scream to me that they're ready for a blowout victory at this point. So let's focus on first Carson Wentz versus the Bengals defense, then we'll get into the smart Jake Browning, as Mike Zimmer once called him. So on this defensive side, you know, there's kind of an old axiom is that what is called in football. It's like one player can't win or lose a game. Well, I think that the exception to that for one player can win a game is when a edge rusher just sacks the heck and pressures the heck out of a quarterback all day

long, I would say Aaron Donald in his day. Probably, I know he was an inside guy, but probably won a few games. Jared Allen, who went to the Hall of Fame, took over a few games in his time to where the opposing offense couldn't do Jack. And they have that dude. Because when you go out through the rest, Shamar Stewart is their top draft pick, does not look like he's going to play. Joseph Asai, another draft pick. Miles Murphy, another draft pick. And these guys have just not been impact players. I have been a BJ Hill enjoyer every time he's available. He's free agency or in trade discussion or whatever, but this is, again, not somebody who makes a massive impact in the pass rush. It's slow down Trey Hendrickson or Trey Hendrickson can

completely take over the game. That's a good point. I actually forgot Trey Hendricksson did get a sack last week against Jacksonville, not until the very end, but he was affecting that game and he affects every game he plays in. The Bengals at least paid him. It was one of those few smart decisions that Cincinnati made. They paid him, ish. But yes, that's a good point. Because if it's Walter Rouse, Justin's schools in the concussion protocol, obviously so is Ryan Kelly. We've yet to see what Christian Derrissau will or won't do this week. He did not practice on Thursday.

The plan was for him to fully practice on Friday. And then we'll see for Sunday, if he's not out there, Matt, and it's Walter Rouse against Tray Hendrickson. That is a matchup that the Vikings are going to pretty much orchestrate their entire game plan around making sure that doesn't ruin what they're trying to do. They will attach somebody next to him, T.J. Hawkinson, whoever it is. Josh Oliver to help him block. But that means that Michael Juergens might not be getting as much help. That means the rookie Donovan Jackson, who had a lot of issues against twists and the D-line movement that the Falcons threw at him on Sunday night.

He won't get as much help. It has a ripple effect through the offensive line if you have to help your left tackle as much as they might have to on Sunday. And I think that the health of Josh Oliver actually plays into this because there were quite a few times where I was wondering, I mean, why isn't Josh Oliver in there just chipping and giving help? to Justin's school last week, and I think the answer was the guy was dealing with an ankle injury and could only do so much. And I know it's funny because every year people will ask us,

shouldn't they just cut C.J. Ham to make a roster spot for somebody else, then C.J. Ham is out and you don't have your little secret weapon to help with pass protection. And Ham has been really good at picking up those stunts or blitzes and free runners that come through. The example that comes to my mind is the San Francisco game in 2023, where Nick Bosa was crushing them. They had a great pass rush that year. I think J. Von Hargrave was part of it. And they could throw in CJ Hamm and passing downs and he would help out. It feels like they have had no one to help out when they're struggling. And I do have a little bit more confidence in Walter Rouse if he has to play over what we saw from Justin's school. School looks to me like a guy who can barely

exist in this league, whereas Rouse at least has been a development project, was a terrific pass protector in college. And then we've seen him play pretty well in training, camp preseason and he got in there and sort of looked like he what he was doing. He knew what he was doing in those handful of snaps that he was in as a pass protector. I don't know about a run blocker, but you're going to have to work your way through that. The difference between Derisaw and anybody, though, against a Trey Hendrickson is enormous. And then you're going to have to ask, well, do you want him to come in and then have to play his first game back from an ACL injury against the guy who led the league in Sacks? But there's probably no week where you're

like, the guy rushing off the left side, the blind side is going to be totally fine. It's just some dweeb. Yeah, right. Miles Garrett the week after that. Yeah. I mean, at least Watt lines up on the other side a lot. But still, I mean, I think it's Highsmith who's going to run. Very good.

Yeah, he gets pressures and sacks too. So they really do need Christian Darrasaw back. Again, we don't know about his status. We've said this pretty much every week. And I don't know what we're supposed to say about it other than they just need him. because when it's an injury this significant, I think we all understand whether it's him that's holding back the progress or whether it's the team that's holding back him getting back on the field.

And I just mean like him wanting to be 100%. I think we all agree that one or two games, you have to survive and you knew about this going into it. And there's just not a lot of other options. You need Christian Derisov for the long term this year and beyond. Folks, there's no way to prepare yourself for hair loss when it happens. and you either end up frustrated or in denial, but I promise you that there is help,

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results may vary based on studies of topical oral monoxidil and finesteride prescription required see the website for important safety information you do and what's unfortunate about all these injuries is this offense needed time to gel and kind of get together because they didn't have a ton of time together in the summer in this training camp, with Darrasaw being in and out, with obviously Justin Jefferson being out. And then when they finally get people together in week one here to get going to get the season started, there wasn't the commitment with the running game. And now two weeks in, Aaron Jones is hurt and out. So when you mentioned CJ Hamm and pass protection, they were doing some unique things with both those guys on the field, Jones and Mason, where Mason

could be a pass protector, Jones could be a guy that leaks out. And now without Ham or Jones, two-back set opportunities are very limited. And if Josh Oliver isn't healthy, what heavy personnel groupings can you really lean on at this point? Because it seemed to me, at least in that game last week against the Falcons, they were not using Oliver as a point-of-attack blocker very often. I don't know if that had to do with his ankle injury. He didn't play as much as we're used to seeing it was like 30% of the snaps for a game that was fairly close up until the fourth quarter. So I think their best blockers, including Darisaw, and talk about him, talk about Oliver. These injuries have affected them so much.

that they have not had that opportunity with the play calling too to gel. And I liked what we saw in terms of what they were trying to do with those two running backs, Matt. But now it's just going to be Jordan Mason's show. And frankly, we should see Kevin O'Connell lean on Mason more than we've been talking about the first two weeks. The first two weeks, it was, he looks good. Maybe he should start. Now it's he should start, obviously, and then he should get 20 carries. And it also plays to Michael Juergen's strength.

I think we've seen this even in the last game. and we saw it in preseason. He had a really rough third down, or was it fourth down? As a run blocker. Yeah, as a run blocker. Yeah, I mean, play-to-play type of run-blocker. But look, this isn't Armani Dawson or Matt Burke or, you know, somebody who's going to the Hall of Fame just yet, he's playing in his second game.

I think overall, when you analyze his skill as a player coming out in the draft, what we've seen in camp and so forth, run blocking is a little bit more on the strength of his. But, yeah, he's going to get beat. I mean, there's no way around that. and B.J. Hills, a pretty good player. He could be a handful for them in the middle. And this just sort of shows you, and not that Vikings fans don't know, but just how much harder everything is,

and maybe why you shouldn't call J.J. McCarthy a bust online yet, just is how much harder everything is to operate as an offense when you're not healthy up front and you're scrambling. And this is a reason that it's probably better this week that Carson Wentz is starting for them because this is a guy who can at least work his way through it. not his first time. Philadelphia, believe it or not, didn't always have this offensive line. Wentz has been there, done that. I think the biggest factor, though, to me, and this is just not the hottest take here, but Justin Jefferson has barely been involved. He's got a couple

of big plays so far, and that is really it for this offense. If Justin Jefferson isn't getting the ball, that means something's going severely wrong. All the plays are designed with JJ number one to JJ is everything in the playbook, I'm sure. And for that to not happen over the last couple weeks is a huge failure for this offense. And I think Wentz would be more along the lines of a veteran quarterback who can pump in the football even if he's not perfectly wide open or he doesn't have perfect protection or something is maybe a little different than he expects, but he's still going to find a way to get it to Jefferson. Yeah, I don't expect Carson, even though he has not

had a meaningful start since 2022. I still don't expect him to come in here and look as deer in the headlights as JJ looked at times within these first two games. in terms of staring down receivers, fleeing clean pockets because he got sacked the previous place, so the clock is sped up. Wence should have the experience and calmness that frankly McCarthy did not seem to show very often. But when you talk about Jefferson and feeding him the ball and when we talk about pass protection, we should note that West Phillips told us, and I was surprised he mentioned this because they don't often tell us this, that they're thinking about implementing quicker passing plays and that they've discussed that kind of approach.

And then he went on to explain how that's not as easy to operate for a young quarterback or any quarterback, I should say. He didn't say young, but any quarterback, as it sounds, in terms of the footwork, in terms of the reads, he said, oftentimes you have to throw it and start your motion before you actually see what the defense is telling you to do in terms of your reads. Wentz gets his start in the NFL in the Philly RPO system. He has gotten the ball out of his hands very quickly throughout his NFL career. I'm not saying the Vikings are going to turn into the RPO, Doug Peterson Eagles, but I do think they're going to try to try to try to help the offensive line out by not having Wentz hold onto the ball. And then I think in general, Wence is going

to have a quicker clock through some progressions on whatever plays he's comfortable with to run than McCarthy had. It seemed like he was thinking through things. He was hitching. Even the two yard out that was the only quick pass, quote unquote, that he had. McCarthy hitches on that and then throws it late and then nailers out of bounds. That's the kind of stuff that I don't think Wence is going to have the hiccup, you would hope, Wentz doesn't have that hiccup in his game. Right. And I, you know, when you watch some other offenses, I think about Green Bay for this and how many easy buttons they give Jordan Love. But Jordan Love has to get the ball out of his hands. He has to see them. He has to throw them accurately. They just weren't getting that. But I think it's been a

reasonable critique of Kevin O'Connell during this entire time that he's been coaching the Vikings that the easy button plays are not always there underneath. That down the field, I mean, even Jalen Naylor at the end of the game. There's every single game, Kevin O'Connell will have some receiver running 25 yards down the field wide open as Justin Jefferson was at the end of the half or Jalen Naylor at the end of the half in Chicago. I have no doubts about his ability to do that as we saw last year from Sam Darnold. But sometimes I think did he miss the part of the playbook for Sean McVeigh that got 200 targets for Cooper Cup in the slot running in and out routes, like running little choice routes and things like that. I mean, I think it was Tom Brady was

showing some play that was his favorite play. And I think it involved just like a little choice route for the slot receiver. To me, Adam Thielen is not like exactly Julian Edelman with the quickness of the feet, but that should be him to me, just leaning on T.J. Hawkinson and Adam Thielen to keep moving the sticks because even even a six-yard completion is getting things going. And when they were trying the underneath stuff and you can't get McCarthy to throw it on time, then you feel like you have to push it farther down the field, then you get sacked, and then you are just behind, behind, behind, and us in the press box are going, why didn't you run Jordan Mason more? And it's like, well, they're behind the sticks kind of all day long.

Not that they shouldn't run Jordan Mason more, but there is this sort of crumbling effect to all of it that an effective quick game can keep you on point. And I think with a league that is sending more complex rushes, more simulated pressures, all things like that all the time, Quick game is just getting more and more valuable if you can execute it. It is. And when I think when you were talking about that, too, it made me think of 2003, which has been brought up a lot around here because they started four quarterbacks that year. The adversity they had to go through starting 0 and 3 and then clawing their way back to 7 and 6.

But I remember Kevin O'Connell getting criticized at the time and then players at the time, wondering, why are we still making this offense so complicated for our replacement quarterbacks? Has Kevin learned that lesson at all in terms of simplifying things? We just heard the special teams coach this week tell us on his own situation. I have to really simplify things because I have new young players. The Vikings have a lot of new parts on offense. Obviously with Wentz stepping in, he's not young, but he's a guy that has only been here for a month.

So how much will Kevin simplify things to the quicker passes, getting the ball out, just letting guys run, it's not so easy as it sounds, but they've got the talent to do it. And I think the shame is when we talk about guys not, this offense not being together long enough to really see what their plans were for it, Addison being out these three weeks has been so huge because he was the guy that developed the best rapport with J.J. McCarthy throughout the entire month of August. And he's also the kind of gadget guy that can give you the little Matt LaFleur-type easy button stuff, the quick handoffs, the make people miss. Like Jefferson's never really been that guy. Beelan is obviously a little too old and long

the tooth for that right now. And Naylor, they have not figured that out with him. So it was about Aaron Jones. It was about Jordan Mason. And now it's just going to have to be about the run game and then finding a way without Addison to get things going underneath. Because I do think Addison had been that guy for them, certainly the first two years. Before we move to one of Zim's favorite quarterbacks that he had here, let's just like hit the e-break for a second. And let me get just some takes from you. Because with McCarthy, there is a lot of discussion about what this all means, like to see him look as bad as he did for seven of the eight quarters. And I've gotten exhausted of saying that, but it is the fact of the matter that really only the fourth quarter

against a seemingly very bad Chicago Bears defense is the only time that he looked like a competent, if not good quarterback. What is your, I mean, I shouldn't call it like freak out meter or whatever. But like, what is your opinion about how they should as a team, a front office, a coaching staff, evaluate what they saw over these first two games? Yeah, I think they know he's not C.J. Stroud at this point, at least somebody's going to come in and light the world on fire right out of the gate. I just think there are certain guys. What I think is going to happen is I think Kevin O'Connell is going to be truly patient about this. I believe him when he says that this is not the time to panic or the end of the world for McCarthy. I obviously believe that this

guy is injured and in a walking boot right now and that this was not some kind of phantom benching because frankly a home game against the bangles pretty good get-right opportunity for the young McCarthy but he needs time physically to rest maybe this will be a benefit for him mentally as well what I think is is that we're not going to know his NFL ceiling at this point we do know the floor we do know that it looked pretty bad those first seven of eight quarters through the first two weeks and so this kid he didn't look ready the day that The coaches didn't look ready for what he could and couldn't do out there. I do wonder, did you need more preseason time?

But we hear coaches, too, talk about the preseason could be misleading because the looks that they get defensively there will not be the same come regular season. So there's no right answer because you can't practice and you can't know until you get into the game week one. And fans aren't going to be happy with that kind of answer because it's their job to know and you're paid a ton of money to figure this out. But this is very similar to a situation like with Trey Lance, where Trey Lance was a very low-volume quarterback in college in terms of against good opponents or even just in terms of overall volume, I believe.

He didn't throw a ton or didn't play a ton, right? He was pretty young coming out, if I remember correctly. Well, and they had the COVID year where he basically didn't play at all. That's right. So Niners obviously do what they did to go get him, but they were ready to win. And they come here for joint practices, and I think 2021, ready to win. And Trey looked awful. He looked horrific.

And we saw J.J. look pretty bad at times in training camp this offseason as well. And we would ask, is it the defense? And which side is it? How can you really tell? And the answer is the coaches can't totally tell either until you get out there week one and you see, oh boy, this kid is not ready for this right now. And we didn't see procedural penalties. We didn't see a ton of those anyway.

We saw a couple. To me that he seemed to have at least the operation on track, but pre-snap what he needed to read and post-snap what he was doing. The clock wasn't there. The rhythm wasn't there. this is a timing and rhythm-based offense where there's a reason why they went after Daniel Jones, talked to Aaron Rogers, went after Joe Flacco. They were really serious, obviously, about getting another guy in front of McCarthy who could run a more rhythm and timing-based

system. There are other systems like what we're going to see with Cincinnati, which is kind of different. It's a little more like go out there play hero ball. We got a great quarterback and great receivers. Just go throw it up and see what happens. They don't do that here very often. I do wonder if they have to change that or whatever with guys. But I do think it's not time to panic with McCarthy, but the kid obviously needs time to grow because he's just not ready right now. Well, in Cincinnati, the last time Jake Browning started, they adapted their offense pretty significantly to him.

And I think the same thing happened in Green Bay with Matt LaFleur in the second half of Jordan Love starting because in the first half of him starting, that didn't look very good. But also, it's not like Kevin O'Connell had much time to do this. It was Monday night football, and then J.J. McCarcy, not his fault, but he didn't time it out this way on purpose, I'm sure, but missed the practice on Thursday. So already you're behind in a short week, and then you're missing a practice, and then you're coming in, and it's like, well, how much can we really change in five days before you're ready to play a team that also understands Kevin O'Connell's offense because Rahim Morris was there in Los Angeles. So I didn't want to overreact too much because it does take time to understand. understand what throws are working, what tendencies are working, what can he see, what can he not see. I do think it was below the level of someone who looked like they were ready to start in

the NFL in that game. And in Chicago, I did not necessarily think that. Even like when rewatching the tape, I thought, well, Jefferson dropped an open one. And he actually ran a route short of, you know, the yards to gain when it was four, which is hard to do. And Thielen usually brings a ball. And like, we had lots of explanations for why he didn't do better in the first half of that game. Nothing like that in Atlanta. And you're, you know, you can say, well, you didn't have this player, didn't have that player. Well, I don't know what teams 100% in the NFL for 17 straight games. Like, you've got to work through that as an NFL quarterback. But being on the shelf now takes away more of their time to be able to figure out what he can do. And this

would have been another sample type of game to figure out this is what he is seeing pretty well and this is what he isn't. So I don't know what's going to happen next. I think there's a spray chart of different things that could go 15 different ways from here. And I still think that one of those ways is him just coming back and playing well. I'm glad you brought up Jordan Love. And yeah, I agree with you. And I'm glad you brought up Jordan Love because this guy was a first round pick who sat three years before actually getting out there and was really bad for that first half of the year to the point where I remember going on radio before a Viking Packer game and they're saying, boy, are the Packers going to be drafting a quarterback right when the Vikings are?

And are these two franchises going to be, you know, competing against each other for this draft class coming up when they didn't know what was going to happen with Kirk. And I just think the patience was needed with Jordan and you had good coaching there and they showed that they could get it figured out. But it took time on the field. Like you said, it took the time to figure it out. And we've heard these coaches talk before about this week about how we're still learning this offense and what we do well.

and it takes time during the first half of a season. And coaches often mention the first quarter of the season is being really that kind of self-discovery time where after that you should have things figured out. With so many moving parts and now at quarterback, they're going to be behind the eight ball whenever JJ does come back to know, okay, this is what we need to do with him. On the offensive side for Cincinnati,

it is a week-to-week league, Mr. Kramer, because last week the Atlanta Falcons brought in one of the best running backs in the NFL, and they dared the first. Vikings to stop him. The Vikings did not stop him. This week, not so much. The Bengals don't know how to run the football, and maybe that's a McVeigh. Well, I don't know, because Lefleur's in that tree, that tree usually runs the ball well. And yet with the COC and with Taylor, it seems like neither one of these coaches has ever really figured out how to do that. So maybe shouldn't make that broad generalization. But I think what we're going to see is Jake Browning getting the football

into the hands of his best playmakers. And what this comes down to, more likely than not, is tricking Jake Browning and taking the football way, Jake Browning not being tricked, but just giving you the football, which does happen. And tackling. And last week, I thought tackling was not so good. So they are, I think, going to in the secondary,

be really tested when it comes to that. They are. It was only two years ago where it was Jake Browning, game winning drive, T. Higgins over at Caleb Evans with Mackay Blackman standing somewhere nearby watching. That could happen again because Isaiah Rogers is a much better corner than either the two I just mentioned, but he's also 511 or whatever it is, and T. Higgins is 6'4. These matchups are going to be tough for the outside, for the Vikings. I do think that the blitzing, the pre-snap looks, the fooling browning, those are all going to be huge components. But I do think within that,

their communication is going to have to be great. We don't know if Harrison Smith's going to be out there yet. Cashman is obviously not going to be out there. They have not seemed to run as many of their pre-snap checks or adjustments on defense without those guys. And I do think that affects how they've played. I do think that affects how, because it seemed like with Bijan and Pennix, they kind of figured it out a little bit where early downs, okay, they were going to blitz pace in the B gap.

So Bijon will set them up and then go the other way. And then paces in a bad position, misses one of his five tackles. Dallas Turner missed a bunch of tackles in that game, too. Like, nobody could bring him down. But I think it kind of forces them to be a little more simplistic when they don't have their veterans in the middle in Harrison and Cashman. And so I'm fascinated to see how they approach this with Browning. Do they try to force the issue by putting seven at the line

and doing everything they love to do that's in Flores' playbook? Or do they play it a little more simplistically and say, we are more talented than you. We're going to sit back, force Browning to dink and dunk his way down the field and just bank on getting a turnover or a takeaway at some point. because Eric Wilson, as we saw, can still punch the ball out. These guys can still force some takeaways. And if they get Van Ginkle back, that's going to be massive against an offensive line in Sinci that is just not good.

But we saw now last week with Browning, he's capable. It wasn't just two years ago against the Vikings last week against the Jaguars. He led a 92-yard game-winning drive to score a touchdown to beat the Jaguars. And it took a fourth-down DPI. It took some really just bad plays by Jacksonville. but there was also another fourth down where Jacksonville overloaded. They got a free rusher, and Browning smartly checks it down to Chase Brown, runs off for a first down on fourth down.

Those are the kind of easy, simplistic plays that veteran quarterbacks can make and make it look easy, and they weren't getting that. The Vikings weren't from McCarthy. I think you have to respect Jake Browning. I do. I don't think this is a backup quarterback where you're just like, oh, man, EasyW, like this guy hasn't played much. I mean, he has a 98-something career quarterback rating,

which I know is pumped up by, what is around it, but they don't change the score if the quarterback got help, which, you know, around the league, it drives me nuts a little bit with analysis. So it's like, well, you know, he had this good receiver. And like, well, they still put up the points on the board if the receiver makes a play and not the quarterback. So that's kind of the case here. When you talk about trying to keep everything in front of them, like that's true. But also, they have Barry Sanders receiver with Jamar Chase. And he can make you look ridiculous really fast if you're not. tackling. And there's one thing that I think has showed up. I totally agree with you with

there's only so much you can do when you don't have your two masterminds. Like this whole thing is built just like the offense is built for Jefferson. The defense is built for Harrison and the same with Blake Cashman. So not having them is extremely significant. But I also think when we look at the sheer athletes in the secondary, there's nobody that I look at and go, All right. Well, Jamar Chase is over there, but they have Dorel Revis. They have Xavier Rhodes, like some big guy or some extremely fast. I mean, Rogers is extremely fast, but I don't know that they have the athletes on this team. Like, Mattelis is a great player, but he's not a freak. And neither is Theo Jackson and neither is Byron Murphy. A lot of it's built on intelligence, where you're supposed to be at the right times, fooling the other team, jumping in front of a ball, causing a turnover. Because a lot of times, teams, over these last few years with Flores, they have moved the ball pretty consistently, and you sort of have to make a play or toughen up. That could be hard if Jake Browning is getting rid of the football quickly,

and it could be hard to tackle Jamar Chase without somebody out there who you can sort of paste onto him and say, all right, you know, you're the one who is supposed to tackle him all day. Yeah, so I do wonder if they're going to lean on four or five-man pressures and off coverage, because when you watch that, the drive at the end for the Bengals, they march down the field with back shoulder to T. Higgins and then right after that, they decided to do the go down the sideline, the fade with them. They will do things like that to set up more plays for their star players. And the Vikings are going to need to not

trust much bump and run coverage. And I don't think they've done that anyway. They've been a predominantly zoned team since Flores got here. And even with this change in personnel in the secondary, they've continued to do that. So I do think we're going to see them play off. I do think we're going to see more safety packages. I wonder if Okuda gets in there because he is a kind of matchup type player who can play big with a guy like Higgins. That to me, or Chase, that to me would be an interesting

matchup, but are we going to see the DPI's that have been thrown all training camp on Jeff Okuda? He played just 18 snaps in Chicago, did not play last week because of the concussion. So we haven't seen a lot from him, but I think he's the only guy in the secondary who's got the size to match up with it. And then you're

right. Like Murphy, when he was 23, was an incredible athlete. I don't know right now where he's at. Athletically, we haven't totally seen it. But you're, yeah, you're right in terms of Mattelis, Theo Jackson. These are just guys who made it because of their brains and their intellect and they're kind of want to to claw their way up the depth chart, the way that they have. And that puts you behind the eight ball against some great receivers. So I don't know how it's going to happen, but they need to get pressure. They need to affect Browning in the pocket. They need to force quick throws and

turnovers or at the very least force him to dink and dunk his way down the field because Browning's good. He's going to eventually make a mistake. It's a good point to bring up Okuda as the one freak athlete. And they might need him in this game quite a bit. That's a great point. And that's not also a point that you want to be making, right? Going into this game, because you, well, you want Okuda to be a player who supplements the other guys and not someone that you're saying, okay, well, you know, you played a handful of snaps, then you were out with a concussion. Now go play a huge role in this game and chase around a team that's going to use three wide receivers all day long. Like, that's not the best.

I think this is a matchup that they have to take very seriously, and I could see both teams putting up a lot of points, which leads me to the Vikings on Fandul are three-point favorites in this game. Do you think that they will win? I do because it's at home, because this is a team that is desperate, the Cincinnati, and it's weird to say it for a one-in-one team to use the word desperate, but vibes are not great. That's at least kind of what I've been sensing around the team. And O'Connell said it. When O'Connell was talking about Carson Wentz this week, he said, Hopefully we see consistent success, and then he said, which is what our team needs right now. I think he realizes this team needs a boost. This team needs a morale lifter, a reason to celebrate. And so they're going to be hungry coming out here. And the Bengals are 2-0. I'm not saying that's going to make them resting on any kind of laurels that they don't have,

but I don't think they're going to need this one as much. And I do think those kind of things matter in the NFL. I think this coaching staff for the Vikings is going to pull out as many stops as they can to get things going on offense. I think they realize they need to lean on Jordan Mason and run the ball as much as possible against a Cincinnati defense that doesn't stop the run a whole lot. All of those reasons make me think that this will be a game that they find a way to win.

I don't expect it to be pretty. I don't expect it to be any kind of blowout. I think it's going to come down to the end, which makes me think it could be Wence or Jake Browning making a kind of play that puts them over the top. But I will take the Vikings because of the talent that we talked about and because of what I think is a coaching advantage for them as well.

The NFL is unpredictable when good players start, much less backup quarterbacks and then who knows. And that's kind of where I'm at is I don't know what Wentz is going to look like in my head based on his throwing ability alone, his veteran experience, I think like this should kind of work. And even if kind of work happens, that's a lot better than what they've gotten out of their offense the last two weeks. But I also don't think you can just look at Browning and say, just

another backup, not when he's been in that system for so long and he knows how to come in and win. I will give the slight advantage to U.S. Bank Stadium, to the atmosphere, to a Browning, who is still not played that many games overall and also should have mentioned this in our discussion, their offensive line stinks. It's just not good. They had to desperately bring in Dalton Reisner, which is kind of always a signal that someone is pretty desperate to solve a position.

Vikings fans know that. Their tackles have not been all that great. I think this is an opportunity for Jonathan Grenard. It's an opportunity for Dallas Turner who picked up a sack last week. And with Dallas Turner, I really don't want to do the thing where every single week we're like, did he prove that he's worth it? That gets tiresome. But also, I need to see, I need to see better. I need to see setting edges.

I need to see more physical play. I don't need to see him getting moved by a tight end who's not even a very good blocker. but it might be just the case with him that speed rusher is what he is. So if he's going to have shortcomings in the other areas for now in his career, he needs to make an impact. And you look at Orlando Brown, like this is a guy that you should beat off the edge with your quickness. There will be opportunities for them to get sacks and make big plays

because I don't think Cincinnati is the best at blocking. No, and I think if Van Ginkle comes back, they can move Dallas back inside. We could see Dallas rushing against Dalton Reisner or the rookie left guard that they've got. I think he's a third round pick. They're not a great offensive line. It's why Joe Burrow, in part, got hurt so early in the season and every year, it would seem.

So I do. I think the offense, I think you're right. I think the O line needs to be a matchup that this defensive line dominates and could help them win. And I'm curious. Do you think Vikings fans are going to come with even half of the fervor they did on Sunday night? Yeah, man, I don't know. It's a day game. It's Carson Wentz.

Like, I'm interested to see how Vikings fans respond to what was a total. Total letdown just six days ago. That's a really good point because at the beginning of that game, it was as loud. Yep, as loud as we've seen it in there. And I think that's going to be a lot harder to get up. However, it's the Bengals. So I'm not sure how many fans are flying in from Cinty. So it will be a very Vikings-y crowd.

But we've seen this before. When the Vikings fans get kind of kicked in the teeth, the stadium doesn't have the same vibe. I think that's probably everywhere in the NFL, but the advantage goes down. from what it is. The guy at left guard is Dylan Fairchild, who was also on Days of Our Lives. It's a very interesting factoid about him. That's a good one. I will end on that. I actually had a joke that made Andrew laugh. So, okay. Days of Our Lives joke, nonetheless. Thank you.

As always, thank you for the hardcore breakdown, Andrew. Appreciate it. Yeah, football. The ball. Thank you. Thank you.