Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Star Tribune's Andrew Krammer thinks Justin Jefferson will have big day vs. Cardinals

Episode Date: November 29, 2024

Matthew Coller and Andrew Krammer of the Star Tribune talk about how the Vikings will approach the Cardinals defense and why Kyler Murray is a wild card in a game like this Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here inside TCO Performance Center with Andrew Kramer of the Star Tribune where we're going to play a game called Who the Hell Plays for the Arizona Cardinals. Andrew, who plays for the Arizona Cardinals? Boy, I could name their offense. Could we name more than one defender? a defender other than buda baker okay so i mean i've looked at this because the okay vikings are playing them but if you just did one of those things that letterman sends somebody out on the street and says hey so uh who's the best defender on the Arizona Cardinals in terms of sacks?

They would say Simeon Rice. JJ Watt? Is Clyde Simmons still there? Calais Campbell? Chandler Jones would have been a good answer for quite a few years, a very good edge rusher. But now LJ Collier is their shout-out to him, I guess, my cousin, who is their leader in quarterback pressure. Z guess my cousin, uh, who is, uh, their leader in quarterback pressure.

Zayven Collins is a pretty good player. And as you mentioned, they do have some secondary guys and I think they have a good coaching staff. So my question to you is, do you want to make fun of the Cardinals more or do you want to respect the Arizona Cardinals going into this game with the Cardinals and Vikings? Yeah, I want to respect them a little bit more, I think, because look, they just got through the AFC South. They just got through Matt Eberflus' second to last game as Bears head coach. We have not seen them face a winning team in some time. And the Arizona Cardinals technically are six and

five, correct? So they are technically a winning football team. And when you look at what they do on defense under Jonathan Gannon, they play pretty good in the secondary. They play pretty good against the pass. And you mentioned the guys, the personnel they've got there. They do have some talent back there other than Buda Baker. And with Jonathan Gannon, their head coach, leading the way, that's to be expected.

He was the DB's coach here in Minnesota. He's the guy running the show back there. So to me, that's what I want to see. I want to see Sam Darnold try to become the second 300-yard passer the Cardinals have given up this year because when they get beat, it's on the ground. And I imagine Kevin O'Connell is going to go into this game trying to lean into Aaron Jones in that ground game again. But we all know when push comes to shove how O'Connell wants to call games. And if the Cardinals do beat teams when they beat teams, they can ground passing attacks. And Kyler Murray, as we know, he's the guy that we've got to worry about. He's the one that can break things open.

Let's focus on Sam Darnold versus the Cardinals. Sam Darnold broke down in tears at the signing of Daniel Jones, said, I just can't play here anymore after Daniel. No, I'm also kidding. But, uh, when a team can't pressure Sam Darnold, I think that he's about as good as anybody in the entire NFL when he can stand back there for three and a half seconds and throw the ball. And what blew my mind looking at the data for the Cardinals defense is how they're not the worst in the league because they truly can't pressure anyone. 57 year old Simeon Rice would be an upgrade because their highest guy in terms of individual

quarterback pressures is 23. I believe John Jonathan Grenard has 55. So they don't even have somebody who is in the ballpark in the range of a player who could take over. And the Vikings have faced a lot of really good defensive linemen this year. We saw how good Tennessee's D line was against them. Even Chicago has Montez sweat, who is a pretty special player. They just don't have that on the D line. And this is where the Vikings pass protection. If cam Robinson is playing, I'm guessing he's going to be questionable because he's been limited in practice this week. If Cam Robinson is playing, this pass protection unit is pretty solid. Now that Dalton Reisner is in there and he could end up having all day to throw the ball. He could, he could. The Cardinals though,

have been a team that don't give up a lot of big plays. And this is a big play offense. And the Vikings have shown you that they aren't the kind of team with Darnold that want, they'll want to go 12 plays. They don't want to go 14 plays. They're not necessarily the lions in this well-oiled machine. Darnold will be the one screwing up, making a mistake sometimes. So the Cardinals like to live in that world where much like how the Jaguars try to take things away, they'll play off. They'll put an umbrella over everything you're trying to do. And you're right. Darnold's going to have time. He might be able to scramble for a hundred yards and pick up a bunch of first downs for him on the run and try to out Kyler Murray, um, Kyler Murray in this game. So to me that you're right, that the pass protection is

not going to be an issue. You're not going to get strained that way, but there might be some tighter windows. There might be some, you know, murky coverages that aren't easy to detect before the snap. And there might not be a lot of big plays, um, you know, as we've seen this offense kind of succeed doing before. So how many times do you think that Justin Jefferson will get the football in this game? Because I'm thinking like 12, right? I mean, that's the first quarter. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Coming off last week and i think that publicly justin jefferson has always done a great job of never saying throw me the darn ball uh he's never even really on the sidelines or during the game thrown a fit and you saw him run blocking late in the game last week and he's creating and their defense is going all toward him and guys are getting wide open and you never see him throwing up his arms or anything like that.

But you have to know that he drove home after the game and just looked around with him. What am I going to get a target again this year? The way the defenses are playing him. And I also think from Arizona's perspective, they had to watch last week and go, have you seen a better offensive performance from the Vikings this year than that one? We can't do that. You can't just put everybody on Justin Jefferson because look what the other receivers did. So I think that this will be a major opportunity for him to have a bounce back game. And I want to point out that in his offensive player of the year, year 2022, Jefferson still

had five games under 50 yards. It happens. That's just how receivers work sometimes boom or bust and every time it happens to the best receiver everyone loses their minds he gets frustrated but I think this is the week where he's catching 10 balls I think that year with Jefferson 2022 was the year he had his career low 18 yards on two catches or whatever it was against the Lions where they just held him down. Yeah, I imagine Kevin O'Connell and Jefferson in his ear outside his office banging on the door has been designing quick plays to get him as a first read, get him the ball on the move,

on the run, not leave it up to chance on the Cardinals, not double teaming him 12 yards downfield the way everybody does. You got to force this guy the ball early and often, I think, to placate him, but also because this is your best weapon. And you're probably going to be trying to counter, as you mentioned, Cardinals schemes that are tilting maybe a little bit more toward TJ Hawkinson, maybe a little bit more toward Jordan Addison, the way that the Bears did not want to. They said, ah, we'll single you. It'll be fine. And it wasn't. So with Justin, we know he was upset. I be fine. And it wasn't. Um, so with Justin, we know he was upset. I talked to him after the game on Sunday in Chicago. He, uh, that,

that became my first question was how is this all sitting with you? Because he looked so upset and the coaches say all the right things. Jefferson say says all the right things after the fact, but this guy wants to be a big reason why they win. He wouldn't sign up for two catches in a 16 and 0 season every single week. Right. Well, and the other part of it too, is that we so often make it because of the landscape of the NFL and receivers and their reputation. We often make it about just their ego and their need for production and everything else. But you could say this for LeBron James, like would LeBron James in his prime be okay with scoring 12 points a game? Of course not. Because here's why, because LeBron James knows,

and I liked how Wes Phillips put this. He knows he's the best chance to win. And at the end of the day, Justin Jefferson is the best chance to win with the ball going his way. What happened last week was the reason you draft Jordan Addison. And Addison is a tremendous wide receiver and showed it in that game. But when you face the best teams in the league in the biggest games, you need Justin Jefferson to be a major factor. You cannot allow other teams to make you beat them with somebody else. If you have Steph Curry, you need Steph Curry shooting threes. You can't just say, yeah, you know what?

Draymond Green can take all those shots for one night. Sure. But for an entire season, no, you need to have answers for this. And I think the answers do need to be on shorter passes. I was looking at what Chicago did to the Vikings. I know it's hard to do because they press Jefferson, but they get the ball to DJ more, just get it in his hands. Like there's screens, there's quick throws and Jefferson is good with the football in his hands. He's good at everything in football. Can they do a little bit more to just have the ball coming out fast and getting right into his hands and give him an opportunity to make plays after the catch rather than having to double move everybody and run some complicated route time and time again. You like that?

That's what a double serpentine double move looks like. It's like eight, eight different breaks. That's like a, like Ben Johnson was dialing up yesterday. It was like, I was actually Jefferson's route against the Colts for that touchdown. So it was just weaving the triple move on the whip route. Yeah. Yes. Yes.

Anyway. So, uh, it is good to get him the football. We probably should focus on that part of it, that they can't let people take Jefferson out of game. Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned Jalen Johnson in the press because that was a big part of what the Bears did. That's what the Lions have done to try and limit Jefferson and hasn't always worked for Detroit either.

But Jalen Johnson played a good game, and they shadowed him in a way that they did not use him before against other teams. And I think that's part of it is that the Vikings get into games and they can say all the right things about how we know teams are going to play us differently and all this stuff. Well, no, what they know is the film. What they know is the library of things the opponent has put on tape and they're trying to prepare for those things. And when you get those curveballs in real time that know they're going to put three people over here on jefferson and ignore everybody over

here it takes a series or a quarter to fully adjust and get a feel for what your opponent's doing i think that is part of the problem with them so if you just attack and you do these quick hitting throws where you can dictate immediately who's getting the ball with the underneath game that's kind of the thing i haven't seen a ton from from the vikings we see a little bit of it but this is such a run-based, play-action-based offense and downfield explosive offense that I don't know how comfortable they are with such a big library of those things. They just don't seem to unravel it very often. So I wonder if this is a week where they're trying to do more of that, because the Cardinals, for the secondary players they do have, do not have a great number one corner.

They don't have a great lockdown press corner who's going to get in Justin Jefferson's face and annoy him the way that the Bears certainly just did. So I do think that's got to be a focus for the Vikings this week, and I also think for the big plays the Cardinals don't give up, they're not necessarily the team that's going to get in his face and shut him down at the line of scrimmage. It's also not like the Bears actually stopped him they grabbed him a couple times for yeah huge pass interferences tackled him once in the end zone and that yeah that was

one that didn't get called uh as happens every week and there is the 40 yard touchdown and also i i think it was hockinson's big play at the end of the game. Jefferson is also open. There's opportunities there where he was open and you sort of see him go like at first, oh, I was supposed to get the ball. Okay. We just got a 40 yard gain. Oh, it was the one where Hawkinson catches it on third and 12 after the negated play. Jefferson is coming open over the middle. If Darnold throws it to him, then he gets the big reception.

Instead, it's the other wide open guy. And I think that it cannot be said enough how freaking good at football TJ Hawkinson is. He has come back incredibly well from this injury. He has seven contested catches this year on eight chances for contested catches. According to PFF, that's something you couldn't do for Johnny month, something you couldn't do for Josh Oliver. It's something you couldn't do is rise. Robert Tunyon still on the practice squad. Like this dude has proven to be worth the contract worth the pick they gave up. And I think what we saw last week, because he was playing more is the actual ceiling of the Vikings offense when it's fully ticking, which is the run in the ball better than they had in the previous weeks. But there's just too many players to be able to

cover for everybody. It's such a shame that they will have played zero snaps this year with Christian Derrissaw and all those skill group guys. Like that's the big shame is that you still have to now worry about your left tackle. And oh, by the way, we've always worried about the interior as you're trying to scheme up all these weapons downfield that we're talking about. But just to appreciate Hawkinson, yeah, he's been absolutely phenomenal. He was immediately a target for them on third and fourth down. And now he's grown to take that Josh Oliver role out of necessity because clearly they wanted to not just ease him in, but maybe even try to protect him for this potential playoff push that they're aiming for because him playing less than 50% each of the first three weeks

was kind of startling considering the fact that they threw to him as often as they want to. So this injury kind of forced seemingly that role to increase. He shows you in Chicago what he's capable of doing. I don't remember if it was the third and 12 or if it was a different play where he skied over the linebacker in the middle of the field. Like that's the kind of stuff where if Darnold's got that trust to throw him the ball, despite having very little practice time together, he's an easy guy to get used to. And you're seeing Darnold kind of do that right now in terms of giving him those chances. That's where he'll separate himself. I saw some fan compare him to Kyle Rudolph when they were all frustrated with him initially. And I'm like, there could not be a bigger difference or gulf in terms of who these players are, both in contested catch wise and after the catch is TJ Hawkinson compared to Rudolph.

No, I think they're very different players. I mean, when we're talking about Hawkinson, if you look at his alignments, he's darn near a wide receiver three. And yet they have to take him seriously as a tight end. He also, I end he also i mean i've got nothing bad to say about rudolph who's a very good player but they're just very different i mean one of them is so much faster and what's crazy to me i don't know that any other tight end the league does this hockinson could make an argument on tape for being the best tight end in the nfl because he runs deep developing routes he runs deep posts with. He runs deep posts with nuance. He runs double moves and you see linebackers being like, ah, what do I do with it? They don't guard dudes

running double moves at the tight end position. He can get depth so quickly off the line of scrimmage into the secondary that you'll see linebackers pulling back and back. And I think that's allowed for a couple of checkdowns over recent weeks because they are willing to treat him just like this giant wide receiver three. And he's fast enough and agile enough and detailed in his routes enough. It's like they added to this team that already has good weapons and the best receiver in football, a wide receiver two or three. And that's been enormous for them.

And that makes me wonder about the rest of the season, Andrew, because at nine and two Vikings fans, probably a little bit anxious here. Like, ah, it's one of those years that you're going to be in the playoffs. This is, this is for real. This is serious. So how good are you really? And I think that when we look at what the offense can be, who they're playing down the stretch, the huge number of injuries for the Lions, who just lost Malcolm Rodriguez to injury for the season, they're without Aiden Hutchinson. It makes me think they can play with any team in the NFL because you walk into the building with the best group of weapons on the field, pretty much whoever you're playing, maybe except Detroit. But I think they're equal with Detroit. Yeah, certainly in the NFC, I feel that way, that they could compete with anybody because you just, you see the holes that Detroit is kind of

accruing as the injuries and the attrition build up and they're having to fight through as every team does a lot of these wins that they're having. The Bears almost did you a favor, Vikings fans, I'm sorry. But I do think that the Vikings have the talent to stack up against anybody. It's always about the, any given Sunday consistency, especially a quarterback where you're facing Jared golf, he's going to have a lot more time together with his group, a lot more time in big situations like this. When we start talking about Darnold in this Vikings playoff push that they want to make Darnold hasn't played in many big NFL games. I understand he did at USC. I understand he played in a ton of full stadiums, pressure-packed environments. It is different when it's a NFL playoff push and

you've got millions of dollars sitting months ahead of you. And you've got your reputation being at stake of how many millions or how many suitors you're going to get is based on what you're doing in every given moment. And so he's done a great job so far of blocking that out. But any question about the Vikings competing with other playoff teams or Detroit is going to fall on his consistency and inside his head that given Sunday of how he does. And that's the fascinating part. And that is why Vikings fans are like, oh, is this another year where we're just going to get disappointed in round one? And with Sam Darnold, where I keep going a little bit back and forth is do we still factor what happened before to him? Because there is nothing similar. It's kind of like this. Uh, do you happen to have your freshman year of high school photograph with you, Andrew, I'd love to take a look at that versus maybe after you graduated college. Like, is it, is it relevant what you looked like as an

eighth grader versus what you were after you graduated college? That's what it feels like comparing Sam Darnold. We are so far separated that 2018 is when Kirk cousins signed here. I'm not holding it against him. I'm saying he hasn't been here before. That's all I'm saying. Like, he just hasn't, right? Yeah. No, what I mean is if we just didn't know what happened with him before, like let's say that pro football reference crashed and lost all the stats

and then he got here and was like, well, does anybody remember what he did before? I don't. Let's just judge him as he's been as a Viking. We'd be like, this is an elite quarterback. That's the he's having. Think about this crazy stat for you, Andrew, the first 11 games of Kirk cousins with KOC, his quarterback rating was 88.6. Sam Darnold is 101.3 or whatever. I mean, he's played as one of the best quarterbacks in the league. He has, I saw this stat today about having nine out of 11 games be a hundred quarterback rating or higher. And

the only people that do that were like Dante and maybe one of those and Cunningham must've been, right. That's the only other times this happened. He has been that great at the quarterback position, but we still have the questions. Is it going to continue? Can he play in those big games? And I guess we'll just have them until they're resolved. But the performance he's put down, I think should give confidence that he can be that guy. Yeah. He's driving a Ferrari incredibly well. Um, and he's making turns that I did not think he was capable of making when I looked at his pro football reference and saw where he had been. Um, so I get your point though, cause you're right. If we judge him just based on this, it's easy to see

his one bottom out game against Jacksonville. And there were other games, the Jets game wasn't great either. So there were other questionable moments, but you could pick apart Goff this year and find stuff, but you could pick apart everybody. So it is easy for us to pick apart Darnold and say, well, boy, compare that Jags game to the three years with the Jets. Boy, there it is. It is easy to fall into that trap. I just think that when you get into playoff situations, what you did before, where you've been before does matter when you're facing guys who have absolutely been there before, like Jared Goff or Jalen Hurts, who played in a Super Bowl not too long ago. So those are the things that when you stack up and we're splitting hairs, it is absolutely worth talking about that. This will be Sam Darnold's most pressure packed NFL environment he's ever had to start in. In each game, it's going to go up, up, up until the playoffs. Yeah, I would say this for the whole final six game run, because you are now looking at the light at the end of the tunnel. If you're Sam Darnold for whatever huge contract you've got coming your way but also for i'm finally doing what they always said that i could do i'm finally living up to this

and there is a lot of pressure but you know what i've really taken away from being around sam darnold i don't think he's a very complicated person like you have some quarterbacks wide receivers are very famous for this but quarterbacks can be this way too, that are a little delicate and that can be moved one way or the other based on what's happening, expectations, how people are talking about them and things like that. I haven't seen any of that from Sam Darnold. He has just been flying even the whole time. He throws three picks against the Jaguars and who didn't have the thought like, oh, does this all come come tumbling down? Does his confidence fall apart after this? The next week he plays his best game of the year. Then, OK, he's going to Soldier Field, that house of horrors for the Vikings. It's a good defense. All those things comes out and has his best game maybe of his entire career, considering that it was NFC North, considering that it's one of the most

obnoxious places to play for NFL players. Right. And he's really shown us this ability to bounce back and stay even that I had no idea he was capable of. It has not been a darn old roller coaster. It's had one dip, but that's it. It has not been like, Oh, every week we don't know who's showing up. Yeah. I guess I would, I would say that in context of his past and where he's done, what he's been, this resiliency conversation is incredibly relevant for all of it because maybe he's able to bounce back from a bad game in Jacksonville because he's been through much worse because, because the, yeah, the Shawshank redemption pipe that I like referencing that he crawls through, because that's what it kind of was for him before in the NFL. And that is relevant when we see a guy who's not

phased by an interception in a game or three interceptions in one game like he did that Sunday. So for me, you will have that kind of confidence. You should have the confidence that he's got the best offense, the best play caller, the best system he's ever been in. And that resiliency is something that I've learned about him. Now, when we look at him behind the scenes, I think it's more of, it's nothing that I've seen from him. It's more of how the coaches talk about it. It's more of how Josh McCown, Kevin O'Connell, Wes Phillips, all these guys going back to

May, how they've talked about this and that managing his psyche. It almost makes me wonder as we talk about it, how much have I blown that up based on what they've said versus what we've actually seen with the guy, which it doesn't seem that needs to be managed a super ton considering when he gets up at the podium, when we see him in games, he is kind of the same person series to series. And we've not heard from a single teammate that, Oh boy, it looks too big for him. Oh boy, deer in the headlight. Look, no, like the scene ghost thing is that's a long time ago now for him. That's what I mean.

That's like when you showed up to prom with two of the wrong shoes, right? Like, Hey, that was a long time ago. Move on, Jeremy. We get it.

I didn't go to my prom, but that's a whole different story. So with Darnold, the teammates point is good because each time he's had these resilient moments, the players after the game, when we talked to them in the locker room, they all say the same thing. While he was like this in the huddle, he just said, you know,

one play at a time, which whatever, it's a cliche. But if you're saying that, hey, guys, one play at a time, if you need something, come to me. This is a big drive. Let's go. And we've seen that in front of us matches up with what they say. And I'm inclined to think that this guy, like you said, has just been through so much that if no one's running out pouring gasoline, lighting them on fire, he'll probably be fine. Uh, let's talk about the other side though. Kyler Murray, very interesting case this year. You talk about a roller coaster where it's either great or terrible and he doesn't seem to be capable of

playing an average routine football game. He's either dropping dimes left and right and scrambling like a madman or their offense does absolutely nothing. So what have you made of this matchup between Kyler Murray and the Vikings defense? Yeah, when we moved on from Chicago and I started looking into the Cardinals and we've seen the Cardinals, you know, here and there, I can't remember similar opponents, the Vikings have played with them, but I've seen some of Kyler Murray this year. And it just seems like it's the big picture. Uh, it's a microcosm of what his big picture is, which is very inconsistent as a quarterback trick shot artist, somebody who can do incredible things athletically on a football field

and make incredible plays, like 20-21 before halftime. He spins away, buys like eight, nine seconds, and throws a touchdown for 70 yards to Rondale Moore. Those are the kind of things that can happen to you any play with this guy. He can also seemingly make the worst decision he's ever made on a football field in any given moment. It's almost as if he has no plan. I know he does.

Drew Petsing is a good offensive coordinator. We've seen him succeed before. We know him from his time here in Minnesota as the wide receivers coach. He's a smart guy, too. He understands the best ways to win in the modern NFL. He also understands that you should run the ball with Kyler Murray. You should hand that thing off because Cliff Kingsbury, when he had success with Kyler, did not ask him to do the entire thing.

They lean on that run game. And frankly, what's interesting to me is they don't ask Kyler to run a ton. He is not a much of a designed runner. He's not even much of a scrambler. They've seemed to have tried to coach that out of him of get rid of the ball, throw it, don't try to run and take a bunch of hits. He has scrambled as often as Sam Darnold this season, which is three, three times a week, something like that, but it's not a ton. The difference is when Kyler does it, he averages more than anybody in the NFL right now

on scrambles. It's like 10 yards per run or something like that. So when he does it, he'll just gash the heck out of you. It's just more of the same with Kyler. Where's the development? Where is the consistent quarterback 10, 12 play drive leading stuff that if Sam Darnold were here four or five, six years into it, you'd be expecting that stuff. You wouldn't be expecting the inconsistent big play feast or famine kind of offense that the Cardinals seem to be. And it's, it's in direct tug of war with how Petsing seems to want to run it, which is run the ball, clock control, and consistency. So to me, I see a chaos agent in Kyler Murray who can do anything on any given Sunday. And that's not good if you're on his side because you just don't know what to expect.

Wouldn't be surprised if the Chicago Bears look at Drew Petsing for their next coaching opportunity, which will be happening since Matt Eberfluss was fired. I do want to ask you about that, but with Kyler Murray, I think it's because he's short. I think the most, what I think the most obvious answer is the right one that I don't know of any short quarterback,

not named drew breeze, who isn't a chaos agent or who isn't kind of feast or famine. I mean, think about even Baker Mayfield. He's become more consistent as the years have gone by, but he's always kind of been that he's always kind of been, Whoa, Baker went for 403 touchdowns or Baker went for 87 yards and was sacked 19 times. It's kind of all. And he's taught much taller than Kyler Murray. I think it kind of goes along with how he's forced to play at that size. You cannot play in a consistent straight drop back. Like think about how much success that Sam Darnold has had under center right this year, straight

drop backs, play actions where you are running stuff that requires you to stay in the pocket, see the entire field. I think it's really hard when you have six foot six trees in front of you left and right to really see the entire field. So it becomes, can I make this deep throw that is to Marvin Harrison jr. It's going to look awesome. Or Michael Wilson's going to look awesome. Or am I going to have to scramble and run around and move to create that space for me to see someone? And those are the only two options. There isn't like Jared Goff threw a ball yesterday. I think it's touchdown where he dropped straight back and he went one, two, three, back to one touchdown. Like, well, that guy's six foot three, six foot four. You just don't see Kyler Murray being able to do that.

Plus the trajectory of your football cannot leave your hand. It has to go up and over. That doesn't mean he's not dangerous because the way the Vikings got lit up by Caleb Williams outside the pocket, that scrambling stuff is very difficult. But I think consistency is always going to be tough for somebody that size. Yeah. And I guess it comes with throwing over the middle, right? Like that's the thing we see young core short quarterback struggle with Russell Wilson, as he lost his mobility with age. Now in

Pittsburgh, he's not a guy who fires over the middle very often, or at least on short catch and run passes. And that's, I'm sure drew Petzing again, a smart guy who knows how you win in the NFL today. The, all the coordinators from the Sean McVay, Shanahan, West Coast tree, it's catch and run. That's what they want to prioritize. It's over the middle routes that set up your best players to catch and run. And Kyler has not done a ton of that for his guys. So that's to your point that I could see kind of having an issue with seeing over the middle, firing confidently into tight windows over the middle. And that's where a lot of consistency in the NFL comes from is is not being predictable which if you're the vikings you might not need to worry if you're blake cashman about the middle of the field too much well and think about even

brock purdy how much they move his launch point he's often rolling and moving to different spots or having to scramble himself to see downfield so that will be something to watch for ivan pace jr not being in this game to me is huge if there's somebody that's built to chase around another tiny person it is Ivan Pace Jr. and not having him uh Jamin Davis you think gets in this game I mean just got here but can you tell him blitz and then have him blitz uh and Kamu Grugier-Hill's going to have to play. Josh Metellus at linebacker is a thing I don't love. At pure linebacker, I like him at his spot. This throws things for a loop a bit with Ivan Pace being out.

This does because they missed Pace. Pace left after five plays in that Bears game, so they've already kind of played a whole game without him. And when Caleb Williams is escaping the pocket on fourth down and jumping over Jahad Ward, it's because Andrew Van Ginkle is the one who's spying him and then getting blocked out and not successfully corralling him. We saw Van Ginkle miss him again on a 40-yard toss to DeAndre Swift. So Van Ginkle's got to do a better job on that edge.

Grenard did a fine job on the other side. But Caleb Williams too often escaped to his right where it was Van Ginkle or it was Cashman missing a tackle on one of the plays I can think of. So yeah, they're going to miss pace, but pace also wasn't, pace wasn't the surest tackler. He's a short armed guy. He can lose, uh, uh, his, the reach battle when he's chasing and running after guys. So to me, they need, and Van Ginkle said this, uh, this week, he said, we need to do a better job of breaking down in space, making sure the, um, Kyler's not getting around us, all those things. It's a coaching point for everybody on that defensive line this week. And I do wonder how Flores is going to approach this. If he's going to just all out blitz Kyler,

knowing the big play ability that this offense does have, or if it's going to be more of a kind of what he did with Caleb at times, which was rush three, sit back and try to just see which way you're going to take it. Yeah. I was wondering if we'll see that too, a little more just play coverage than blitz all the time against Murray and where they're going to miss pace is that he's just a tremendous blitzer. Yes.

He, that is a specific talent. It's not just scheme. He shoots through there like a Wolverine bounces off people. I think that linemen don't even know what to do with him. He's so much smaller. Yeah. And it seems like they kind of put their arms out, but then he gets into their chest because he's moving so fast and he is tougher and stronger than running back.

So he'll run them over, push them back. There's no guy who is like him on the roster that can go do that. Maybe Jamin Davis can emulate it to some extent because he is a tremendous, tremendous athlete. And I found it interesting. I don't know what you've found in your research about Jamin Davis, former first round pick, but I was Googling why did Washington cut him?

What happened? Tell me internet. It looked to me like they signed those great linebackers and then they tried to make him an edge rusher and it just didn't really stick because that's a very different position yeah dan quinn and moved him yeah down to the d line and i'd asked um davis this week of where he was gonna play and it sounds like they they are gonna move him to off ball again where he's more comfortable um he said he's looking forward to, I think his quote was, show the world who I really am. So he expects to have some kind of a role, whether that's just getting dressed and he never gets in the game. We'll see how it ends up. But

the other linebackers, it is worth noting that not a ton of guys are a lot of great athletes. Camus Grugier-Hill is on the back end of his career at this point. Josh Metellus, as you mentioned, he's adapted to that role as admirably as he possibly could, but it's not something he's naturally good at. So if you can get a guy who's used to playing the run fits and being a guy who's used to getting caught in the wash and dodging a bunch of blocks like Ivan Pace can do so well in the run game, I wouldn't be shocked if we see him get in there on some early downs where the stuff that they do is not so exotic, quote unquote. Yeah, I think he's going to be in there. I don't know about this week, but I think that we're going to see a lot of him going forward. It's hard to find

a guy like that, where when you look at his numbers as a linebacker for Washington, I expected to open up that PFF grade page and be like, but definitely not the case. They just have Luvu and Wagner who are two tremendous, tremendous players in Washington. And I think because he does have this rushing ability, they wanted them there, but his athleticism. And if Cashman takes all the complicated stuff and you make it simple, which I think is what they already do with Ivan pace as the younger player that he should be able to, as a veteran step in and be a better option. And Grugier Hill came into the league as a safety, like he's not that big. So I think it's tough for him to take on the run and to, to shoot through on those blitzes. Uh, who do you think wins the

football game? Boy, if this were in Arizona, I think I'd pick the Cardinals, which I mean, to me, this is a Vikings team that has been playing on a knife's edge for quite some time. And you're just waiting. I'm waiting for a ball to bounce the wrong way. I pick the Vikings in this game because this defense at home, Kyler Murray on the road, all those things put into a blender. I think it comes out the Vikings way this time. I just don't trust Kyler Murray. I've never been a big believer in him as a consistent leader of a team.

The only thing working against the Vikings advantage at this point is that he's coming off a bad game, which means he usually has a good game the following week. And I think he might have a good game against this team and that the Vikings can outscore them because they just have more defensive talent. See, I would argue that the ball has bounced the wrong way against this team recently, and they've gotten away with it by playing good

football otherwise. So what I mean is you get an interception in Jacksonville on a slant route that's tipped. All right. The other two were clearly Sam Darnold's fault, but there's one kind of random interception. Then you have a fumble at the goal line last week for Aaron Jones, just kind of a random thing, a watermelon kick. Like there's been weird stuff that has happened that could have taken them out of these games and had the big disappointment game and they've survived it. Uh, but it is a tougher challenge now than a team that just fired its coach in Chicago or AFC South teams that should be relegated. So let me ask you before we wrap up. We got to go to the locker room. About Matty Rufus being fired.

Probably the easiest firing that has been made. But how crazy is this? They lost three games before his firing. By a grand total of seven points. I don't know if I've ever seen something like that. Where their team was right there. And could have won all three games. and then they had to fire the guy because he made such a terrible mistake at the end of a game. And I think everybody knew they was four weeks ago before this NFC North run of losses. Yeah, when you go 0-3 in the division

like they did the way they did losing those games, it screams clock management. It screams head coach. It also screams that we can no longer just sit here and watch this dumpster fire continue to burn. Let's throw some water on it. Let's wait for it to cool off in February

and come back and fix it. I think that's just where they were at. This team needs an offensive coordinator, Ben Johnson maybe, to step in as head coach and lead Caleb Williams in the right direction. We see he has talent. We see with Thomas Brown taking over play calling that there is something there with this guy. We don't need to overreact and say,

Jaden Daniels should have been number one. Caleb Williams can still very much live up to that pecking order in the, in the draft this past year. So for me, this wasn't a shock. I think it was something that Ebert flew said again, put in a month ago with that loss in new England. And you're just seeing a coach that even watching the hard knocks never seemed to have the kind of command of the team in much of a way that we see Kevin O'Connell, Dan Campbell, a bunch of other coaches around the league have. Yeah. And when you're the defensive guy and your most valuable asset is the quarterback, you're always on a little bit of rocky ground there, unless you are, I don't know, like Mike Tomlin or somebody, but unless you have a real pedigree

and you've done something in the league before. But I think the most telling thing about the Uber flu situation is just how disrespectful his own players were toward him after the game that we've seen this Vikings team blow games. We were in Denver last year where they blew a game. Did anyone come to us and say, guys, this coach, man, mismanagement, the players were good enough to win. They do that every time they lose in Chicago. There's just no real respect for him,

and everybody knew he was a dead man walking after they had to fire the offensive coordinator that he hired, and then they lose the way that they did. It's just weird to see a team lose by so little and get fired. Normally, it's, well, 42-7 on national TV. That guy gets the boot. Not, they almost pulled off an amazing comeback and then he forgot to call timeout.

That's just it. It was him. Like that's when there is an acute moment you can point to and say why you lost the last game. You can't say it was because of Caleb Williams. You can't even say it was because of Ibrafluse's defense. It was because of a management decision in which you as the head coach are directly in charge of. And why I also think most teams are set up best to hire offensive minded coaches,

not just because this is an offensive quarterback league, but because game management so often runs through that offensive lens. Okay. We got to run. I'm also picking the Vikings here. And I think it's a little bit closer than you want. I think they'll give up some yards to Kyler Murray, but something like 27, 23, the only way this team plays games, the only way, at least for now, maybe they'll blow them out. I don't know. We'll see. Okay. Thanks everybody for watching slash listening. And we will see you inside of us bank stadium on Sunday after the game. Take care football, football, enjoy your leftovers, everybody.