Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Star Tribune's Andrew Krammer thinks the Vikings should roll over Rams

Episode Date: October 24, 2024

Matthew Coller and Andrew Krammer of the Star Tribune talk about the Vikings trade deadline approach and a very winnable game vs. the Rams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here and joining me on the show via the video call rather than out at TCO Performance Center because the Vikings are traveling and we're not going out there today. Andrew Kramer, Star Tribune. And Andrew, this is our hardcore preview. Vikings are going to win this game against the Rams, right? You want to just start there?

Like I was looking over the Rams and their reputation is with a great franchise, good coach, good quarterback, but there's not a whole lot of evidence of good things that the Rams have done this year. Is that, is that too much to say that even though it's Thursday night, even though it's O'Connell versus McVay, and there's a lot of history there, and they still have some good players, that the Rams should be overmatched in this game. I think that's absolutely fair to say. I mean, the Rams, Matthew Stafford just threw for 154 yards against the Las Vegas Raiders, who last time I checked are not a very

good football team. Yeah, I don't think the Rams are very good. They are as much as, or they go as far as I should say, as Kyron Williams takes them. And frankly, even if Cooper Cup comes back, which seems like is going to be the case on Thursday night, they will need 2021 Cooper Cup and maybe 2021 Andrew Whitworth at left tackle. He's going to be broadcasting this game or on that halftime crew for Amazon Prime. They're going to need to turn back the clock, be a different team.

They just aren't. This defense is a mess. You could absolutely feel Raheem Morris' absence. He's over there running the Atlanta Falcons right now. And then just they don't have Aaron Donald, obviously. They don't have a healthy Puka Nakua. Their offensive line is a bunch of guys you've never heard of outside of Rob Havenstein at right tackle. So they just don't have a lot right now, personnel wise. And it brings me back to when Kweisi Adolfo Mensah, Matt, we remember his first summer here. He famously

said, don't go full Rams. And you see what happens. Yes, you get the Super Bowl banners fly forever. No one is going to everybody's happy. No one's going to be like that was a failure trading for Matthew Stafford. But this is what you pay for when you don't have a roster with assets to because you traded them away for Jalen Ramsey. You traded them away for a bunch of players to come in and get that ring that they got. And now they're just left with these pieces that, frankly, as you said, aren't very good. Yeah, to tell you the truth, that's a more interesting discussion than talking about whether someone named Jordan Whittington will be hard for the Vikings to stop. We'll get into that, but I do want to stick with this.

Does that give you pause at all about the Vikings potentially making a big splash trade using their first round draft pick for next season? Because there would be some connection there or correlation between what the Rams did in 2021, where they went out and got Vaughn Miller. They had gotten, was it the previous year they got Jalen Ramsey, but still part of that sort of all-in type of trade effort, and then the big deal to get Matthew Stafford. And then their general manager wore a shirt that said bleep them picks,

which you're right, exactly. I mean, when you dunk that ball and you win that championship, then you dance all the way down the court. I have no trouble with that. But the last couple of years, they have really had problems getting this roster back up to speed. And if you're the Vikings, it is the cautionary tale of going all in because if you don't win that

championship, and I always think about that dropped interception that Stafford threw in the NFC championship game, he throws the ball up for grabs. Safety has it landed in his hands and drops it. That is the difference right there between us talking about, ah, well, they got a Super Bowl out of it and what a failure this was for the Rams. So how do you connect that to where the Vikings stand right now? Yeah, it's pretty wild. I had to go back and look at it. But Jared Verse, the defensive end that the Rams took this year, was their first first-round pick since Jared Goff in 2016.

I mean, that's how all-in they've been since Sean McVay got there in 2017. They've just traded every pick away for whomever. And so, yeah, I think how this connects to the Vikings is the Vikings is the Vikings are very much more of a long-term view. They want to kind of slowly ramp and build this thing. They want to draft. They want to pay the guys that they draft. And even if it's the guys they didn't draft, Justin Jefferson, Christian Derrissaw, who just got paid this summer, they want to continue to do that. And unfortunately for Kweisi, they have not done that yet in these early drafts. 2022 has been talked about enough. 2023 is up in the air. And then

we'll have to obviously see about this year in terms of Dallas Turner, JJ McCarthy. These are all pieces that you have to have a long view with. And so what is it going to do if you go out and acquire and trade a first round pick for Jeffrey Simmons? I mean, it would have to be somebody that fits your long term picture, who's young enough that you want to also pay and keep around for five plus years. This isn't going to be acquiring the corpse of Von Miller or acquiring the corpse of, well, now it would be Jalen Ramsey at this age. So I don't think that the Vikings are going to be looking to make some major splash. You hear some rumor thrown out there about Matthew Stafford and the Sam Darnold trade one for one, which seems obviously ridiculous on its face because of the finances and the

money. And frankly, this team right now, are they Super Bowl worthy at five and one? I think that's also an interesting discussion that this front office and this, I should say this front office for the Vikings has typically not been hoodwinked by results. They weren't hoodwinked by 2022 when they went 13-4. They decided to retool the roster after that. I think this defense, this team is obviously more for real this year, but they're building something. They started building something really after that 2022 season.

And I don't think they're going to throw that all the way unless, again, it's for a TJ Hawkinson type acquisition where you know we're going to pay this guy and he's going to be here for a very long time. All right. Let me work my way through that because I have been in favor of them trading away the first round pick. And here's why his name is JJ McCarthy. That is the big difference between where the Rams were and where the Vikings are is that JJ McCarthy is going to have four years where you can spend as much as you want around him because the difference between the high paid quarterbacks and Jared Goff or and J.J. McCarthy, like Jared Goff, is about 45 to 50 million. And with Dak Prescott's, it might even be 55 million.

The difference between even really good quarterbacks and what the Vikings will pay J.J. McCarthy. All of that money can be poured into the roster. They also really showed this last year that given a little bit of money, Brian Flores working with Kweisi Adafl-Mensah, Kevin O'Connell working with the front office are very good at identifying free agents. They have also been very good at getting them to come here because of the reputation of the coaching staff, the facilities, the ownership, how families are treated. We've seen that from the NFL PA survey. And I think that this team can continue to reload through free agency. And the fact that they have their superstars in their prime,

Christian Derrissaw, JJ or Justin Jefferson, and then presumably their quarterback. I think that they can do that. Something else that came to mind for me too, was that 2017 was the best year for the Minnesota Vikings since Brett Favre was here. They traded away their first round pick in 2016 to the 2017 draft pick. And they ended up in the NFC championship game. There's sometimes an overrating of, well, this draft pick is going to come in and make a huge difference right away. We see that across the league and they didn't even

have one that year. They missed on other draft picks that they had throughout the years. And if you get the right players as your superstar positions, which they already have left tackle wide receiver, if you hit on the quarterback, I don't think it's going to make as much difference to miss the 28th overall pick in the first round as we think yeah Matt there's a Venn diagram where you and I agree and the Venn diagram in the middle there is acquiring somebody again like Hawkinson who's going to be here for a long time sure if you if you think, you know what, this first-round pick is not worth as much for us as it will be, shipping it out to acquire, again, Jeffrey Simmons comes to mind, somebody who's still very much in his prime, somebody you can see staying here

and being a big difference maker for years at a position of need that is also recently very hard to draft, seemingly, for teams to find a lot of big interior difference makers so or one where you got to be in the top 10 of the draft to get them because they're gone so quickly um i think that would be a move but i just don't see them going for a rental type move and and i think you know kevin o'connell brian flores might be agreeing with you here they might be on more your side of this venn diagram, but you tried telling the front office that they're not going to hit on that next first round pick. You try telling them that it's not worth what they think it's going to be

worth. And yeah, it might be a late first round pick, but it's still one that they could absolutely get a difference maker with. And so I think this is a team that has more, again, more of that long view. I don't see them doing a Von Miller type move or acquiring a 30-year-old at any position to come in and just be a one or two-year solution for them. I think they're trying to rebuild and retool this roster by acquiring 26-year-old Jonathan Grenard, by acquiring Byron Murphy on a two-year deal with plans to potentially pay him again and keep him around like they did two years ago. There's certain patchwork things they can do in free agency with third-round, fourth-round picks. Sure. I just don't think it's going to be with that first because this is still a franchise that is looking to plug

some big holes in this roster. We talk about corner. Matt, who are the corners under contract after this year? Caleb Evans might still be on his rookie contract is that it blackman yeah yeah that's dwight mcglothern yep we like we like uh we we like dwight mcglothern during the uh preseason and and so forth yeah no it's a good point it's a good point they and that's where you can't spend the first round pick on all of those things. They're going to have to be in free agency anyway. But I think that there is a very clear set of players that if you were able to acquire and you needed to use the first round pick that they would do the Hawkinson type of thing and the thing about how competitive they really are see i came out of the lions game saying i mean you are a third and four conversion away where maybe if jordan addison just gets a route detail a little different or maybe you make an easier play on the play call

uh for kevin o'connell then sprint out and fire it across the field. Anyway, you're this close to beating the Detroit Lions, who are, I think, the clear-cut best team in the NFC and have a really good case for being the best team in the entire NFL. A lot of the power rankers have the Lions as the best team in the NFL, and that's how much you lost by to them. I look at the Vikings and go, who else in the NFC? The Packers are quite good. They beat the Packers already.

The Lions are really good and they lost to them by this much at the end of the game. And who else? I mean, Washington, I think is off to a good start. I don't think that franchise is there yet. Philadelphia might come around. San Francisco's pets heads are falling off. I mean, there's just every, every player is hurt for San Francisco. Seattle does not scare me. I think Chicago will slide once they face the harder part of their schedule. The Vikings that you're aware of this, aren't you? If the

playoffs started today, they would play the Atlanta Falcons on the road in Atlanta. Does Atlanta terrify you? I mean, they are the second best team in the entire NFC. So for me, I think we can definitively say that. And if you're the second best team in your conference, time to go for it. Yeah, I do think Green Bay is better than what they looked like in that game at Lambeau against the Vikings. You caught Jordan Love coming off an injury in which he wasn't lining up under center a lot in that game for you.

You didn't have the full Matt LaFleur playbook seemingly available in that first matchup. So I do think Green Bay is right there as well. I don't think we should just kind of shove them aside. But you're right. Detroit is also the they are the reigning champs in the division. They should still be in that catbird seat after beating you at home. So I agree with you. I think the Vikings were just a little bit away. I think the NFC seems wide open. Philadelphia worries me in terms of matchup problems with the Vikings. When you look at their wide receiver core, Saquon Barkley is obviously a menace. And

then their defense with Jalen Carter in the middle, just it kind of puts a needle on a soft spot for the Vikings offense. That makes me wonder how that matchup would go but um I see what you're saying and that's why I think maybe at the trade deadline this Vikings team might be more looking to patch those holes with you know second third whatever they only have like three draft picks next year right they got like a one and then I don't even remember what they have left. Two fists. Two fists. Yeah. So maybe you're shoving a fifth round pick and a 2026 pick or something. If you get a GM who's looking that far down the road for something, I just think they're going to want to hold on to that one, especially when we talk about how little draft capital they've got and how old this, this roster is sneaky old.

Like they're not in terms of definitely who they're playing on the field every Sunday. They are playing the older guys. Those are the guys that are contributing the most. How much development are you getting right now from some of the young guys who, when I talked to Dallas Turner, he was given off the vibe of like, well, I need to grow even though I'm not playing. Like he was kind of saying without saying I need to play to grow. And now I'm focusing on trying to grow without it. Um, those are the things that interest me about this team of like, they already feel kind of old. It's going to take to me, it's going to take for me for them to thread a needle seemingly to make a

big acquisition. And again, I go back to Hawkinson, but that is the perfect example of one where it filled the need. It acquired a guy who was young enough that you'd pay and keep and fit that long-term vision maybe they will take a ram home with them though i was looking at this roster and you go oh well maybe there's a fifth round pick for uh some guy off this roster i mean the rams are in uh pretty tough shape here two and four their win was you know coming off of

the the vegas game uh there are rosters to be farmed, though, is the point. I mean, Cleveland already moved on from Amari Cooper, the Tennessee Titans trading DeAndre Hopkins just before we started doing this, that we have seen a shift in teams selling off parts for whatever they can get that did not used to happen so much in the NFL. And I think the Vikings do need to take advantage of that.

And truthfully, we're talking about the first round pick. If you trade both fifth round picks, I don't think there's going to be a whole lot of complaints, although I will miss the conference calls with the fifth round picks because there will be no day three picks at that point. But would you trade the fifths for two role players who could come in and help you out or give you depth in any area?

I think the answer is absolutely yes when it comes to that. I wanted to talk to you about some interesting players on the roster. I know it's our hardcore preview, but the Rams are just painful to talk about. And I think that as we go into the trade deadline here, it's our last conversation before the trade deadline. I think, no, it's November 5th. They moved it back. Okay, so we'll have two more conversations. But the movement is happening in the NFL already before the trade deadline.

So I want your opinion on a couple of players. Jordan Addison is one of them. I thought that he had a very tough game against the Detroit Lions. There were procedural penalties. There was the miscue on the third and fourth at the end of the game. He did catch a 51-yard pass that was spectacular, but he has not been this year very much of an impact player in the way that we expected him to be. Part of that is multiple ankle injuries, one before the season and then another one early in the season. What are your expectations for Jordan Addison moving forward?

Is this a setback or do you think that it was just kind of a joggy beginning to the season and he'll get going? Yeah, these are some bumps in the road for a second year player who's had a lot of them already, whether it was the ankle injuries that you mentioned or the off the field stuff in back to back years where in July he can't seem to keep himself out of trouble. So I think there's some mental kind of lack of focus there that you can read into with that. And I thought it was telling when we asked Justin Jefferson about it yesterday about Addison, he just said, look, he's not getting a lot of targets and I got to talk to him sometime and just make sure he's still in the game, staying with it, staying focused.

And that's, you know, reading between the lines of what he said. That's what we're all talking about here. The procedural penalties are not being detail oriented. The, uh The third down issue at the very end of the game, him just getting kind of physically worked by a Meek Robertson on that route. That's also probably a technique thing where a more refined receiver could tell you what he exactly needed to do there for a smaller guy to win on that kind of route. And so I think for him, it's just the consistency of a young player. He's still incredibly talented. You saw in that 51-yard completion, I think it was the fourth fastest speed

recorded by any ball carrier in the NFL this year. It was almost 22 miles an hour. That's the kind of stuff that is going to keep you around for a very long time. That's the stuff that's going to keep you active and in a big role despite these issues. So I don't think the Vikings are going to back away from him. I think they're in fact, maybe going to lean into him in this game and try to not feature him, but maybe feed him a little bit to get him going and kind of get that confidence

back for him. Cause I think he needs it. I think he's had a lot of bumps this year and a lot of ups and downs while seeing a team that's five and one that he hasn't been a real major part of. And this kid's used to winning. We know when we talk to him, he wants the ball like any receiver while seeing a team that's 5-1 that he hasn't been a real major part of. And this kid's used to winning. We know when we talk to him, he wants the ball like any receiver does. So I just think this is a focus thing for him right now. It was certainly in that game against the Lions, and they're going to expect better from him moving forward.

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Visit uscellular.com for details. It does feel like from everyone outside of Jalen Naylor, who has got to be thrilled about how this is going, there is a little bit of, I need the ball a little more, need the ball a little more, because under Kirk Cousins, they would throw 42 times a game. And now they're throwing more like 28 times a game. And that just comes along with Justin Jefferson saying, man, I'm tired of these 80, 90 yard games. I got to get a hundred yard game on the board, which is also funny because if you

catch 90 yards, every game, you end up with 1500 yards. So I think that Jefferson is doing fine. And yet at the same time, he's still layered into his comments. Yeah. I mean, if you look at the tape, there's still explosives out there to be had. And you're like, I agree with you. And is that pointing a little bit toward the quarterback? Is it pointing a little bit toward the coach or just today now think they're running the ball too much? I don't think that I like to see more of a running game for them, but it isn't the same high volume, short passing game as it was with Kirk Cousins. I mean, this is so much more of a we're going to run and then we're going to look deep. It's more Kubiakian or Stefanskiian of 2019 and 2020 than it is the way that they played with Kirk.

I think that speaks a little bit to just how you have to play with Sam Darnold. But Kevin O'Connell might have to manage this a little bit if he feels like Jordan Addison isn't staying engaged with the game because he isn't getting enough targets. Then you have to find some ways to get him the football. And I did think that O'Connell did a good job with some of the underneath stuff, but still they don't finish the game with very many throws. No, they don't. Yeah, the volume is down. And that's by design when you have Aaron Jones playing as well as he is.

And you've got a quarterback that you're trying to take some load off of. You're not trying to ask him to do all that. And probably rightfully so. Because I think Sam Darnall needs to be managed in a way that he's not Kirk Cousins. He's not a finished product. He's not more of a cement in his fundamentals., these things will fall apart on him in games and he won't do the right thing every single snap. He's not as robotic as somebody like Kirk who's done it so much. 19 or not 18, maybe 1920 seasons with Kubiak, I was obviously Kirk and it was them trying to coach him in a way that it feels like you're right, that they're coaching Sam Darnold now, where it's, you're kind of a limited quarterback in terms of what you're seeing out there in terms

of your vision, in terms of your decision-making. So we're going to make this clear, concise, and easy for you. We're going to run the ball and we're going to take deep play action shots with route patterns that give you pretty obvious clear windows. And when Jalen Naylor is running an over route on a play like that, you cannot force the ball to him when Brian Branch is screaming downhill for that incredible play, albeit incredible play that probably should have been just a deflection, not an interception, but you still can't make that throw. You can't miss the safety there. So he's still making mistakes on these kind of clear window plays that they're designing for him. That does not inspire a ton of confidence to say, Hey, we're just going to run a bunch of mesh routes and a bunch of underneath

stuff. And you need to sift through the forest and find the tree that they're not asking him to do that a lot. They're asking him to simplify things, clear windows, clear vision, and what's the word I'm looking for? Just kind of a decisiveness of knowing where he needs to go with the ball. And that's, I think, very much a coaching point for them. It's why the offense looks the way it does. And I think it's the way they do need to coach Darnold based on everything you've heard about him, from coaches, from teammates, about how when things go poorly and when he turns the ball over a lot, it's usually been a mental thing. The famous quote of him seeing ghosts on the sidelines.

That was a long time ago. He's obviously a different player now. He seems like a much better player now, but they're still not going to turn him into Peyton Manning. They're not going to turn him into shotgun Matt Stafford, you know, dice the ball all around the field. And so it is going to lead to a limited offense that I think when it comes to targets for Justin Jefferson, targets for Jordan Addison, it's going to have to be more schemed than just, hey, Sam, get him the ball. Yeah, I think that Darnold has played absolutely awesome

in this structure and his play action throwing is terrific but what the play action often does is as we all know brings in the linebackers create space there are usually some spots to throw to deep crossing routes and things like that that sam darnold is phenomenal at throwing and you can't do that all the time though i mean that, the, the, you could only run play action, maybe 40% of the time if you are really, really leaning heavily into it. And you have to, you do have to have your guy out of the shotgun sometimes, but I think we've seen a lot of coaches historically, uh, the Matt Schaub Texans, the Kirk cousins, Washington team with Mike Shanahan, where they kind of limited the number of things that the guy has to read on the field all at once

and found a lot of crossing routes and deep routes that he was good at throwing, and then they leaned into those, which is not the same as what O'Connell had Stafford doing in 2021, O'Connell and McVay, or Kirk Cousins doing, and it actually took Kirk Cousins an entire half a season to feel comfortable in doing that. And we really only truly saw just kind of funny since they won 13 games, but he only talked about really feeling comfortable in the offense by year two. And we started to see that come together in that San Francisco game and the game he got hurt against

green Bay. So it is a credit to kevin o'connell that he's not doing that to sam darnold he's not saying hey here's all this stuff you got to check change read and we talked to garrett bradbury uh in uh training camp about how he's helping sam darnold with the protections which kirk used to do all of himself so the mental load on Kirk Cousins was so much heavier than it is on Sam Darnold which comes along with less volume and I think that what we have seen always with these Shanahan offenses is antsy wide receivers Stefan Diggs was antsy we even saw for Brandon Iuke the guy demanded a trade three four different teams almost traded for him in the offseason he was they were winning last year and Iuke is going after games.

Like, what am I doing here? Why am I even here? Because it's always that kind of low volume game. And I will be curious to see how it plays out going forward. But just as it pertains to Addison, I'm a little concerned, not a lot concerned.

I mean, just a tiny bit after that last game. And I'm also starting to wonder, is Darnold trusting Jalen Naylor more than Addison right now? That's interesting. Yeah. I think Addison, or excuse me, Naylor, I should say, has been put in a spot where he can leverage Sam Darnold's strength, which is the deep ball. We should also mention that Sam Darnold is incredible throwing the deep ball, the touch, how he can layer things over into intermediate and deep levels, but it's just the mind. It's knowing when to anticipate, it's knowing when to see and when to pull the trigger. And those are the more of the hangups

with him. And I do think Naylor maybe fits, certainly fits these deep overs, these deep go routes, the guys fast and just put them into man coverage and have them outrun it. Unless it's Brian Branch, it generally works really well because there was a play earlier in the game before the pick where it was a deep over and Brian Branch was like hugging Naylor the entire way and smacks the thing down and Darnold should have never thrown it, but it was pressure. The O-line blew something and Darnold had to get rid of it. I do think Naylor fits a lot of the schemes they're trying to run. I also think Darnold has a pretense to get to that read quickly, which Naylor's often the second, third, fourth read, and just get the ball out. This guy seems like somebody in the pocket who is looking to not make the mistake, looking to manage the game, and looking to get the ball out as fast as possible. And I think Naylor's a guy who that's kind of easy to do. And I

don't, I don't see Addison being put into a ton of underneath stuff outside of the third and four where he can't get out of the way. Um, I don't see them featuring Addison on a lot of underneath stuff. The quick throws are going to JJ. The checkdowns are going to Aaron Jones and Johnny Munt. And I think when Johnny Munt is TJ Hawkinson, it's going to look a lot better in terms of after the catch and generating on those plays. But Addison has kind of been lost in the shuffle of that progression where it doesn't maybe because he's not the biggest guy. Maybe because he doesn't look like a guy and doesn't have the chemistry of a contested catch winner with Sam Darnold. Maybe that's why he's not pulling the trigger as much. It is also worth noting these last two games against the Jets and Lions are two of the

grabbiest, most physical secondaries you will see in the NFL. And I think the reason why Addison's having a quiet game against both is because he can get bodied. He can get covered and worked if he's not getting separation with his routes, which those two defenses don't allow you to get a ton of. And the Rams do not have a very good secondary their secondary has been lit up and then when you look at jacksonville tennessee the teams that are coming i think the big games are coming for jordan addison it was only things

like not lining up correctly or not running the right route where you go all right are you dialed in this year? Are you locked in? And we know Kirk Cousins absolutely loved Jordan Addison and he trusted him as you're mentioning to just throw it up to him. He felt the same way about Addison as he did Jefferson, as far as, all right, he's got man coverage. I'm going to put it out there. I know he's going to go get it. I don't know if that trust has quite been built yet with Sam Darnold on the defensive side. I have a conundrum when it comes to talking about Dallas Turner. For one,

I just think that rookie players don't always make a huge impact on great teams and people who think every rookie should just come in and set the world on fire are in love with the draft and they don't understand why like every year we kind of go through this why isn't this guy whatever uh he's on the field they've worked him in he's playing on special teams but it's kind of the best they could do right now and i i felt like flores trying to put him in an inside linebacker was just an attempt to be like i gotta get to get this guy on the field sometimes, but that's not his position. And it showed in the few snaps that he was on the field. I don't need them to play Dallas Turner a lot. I think he needs to

be patient behind Jonathan Grenard and Andrew Van Ginkle. And I am not making any determinations whatsoever about his future. The only interesting thing I think is the challenge of them to make sure that Dallas Turner doesn't look around at some other first round guys like Jared Verst and go, boy, that could have been me if I was on a team that would actually play me. But I don't think that we should be making judgments at all about Dallas Turner because he's behind two of the best players in the league at their positions. Yeah, not only that, Patrick Jones has absolutely been the hot hand that they've given a lot of work to that they probably thought they were going to give to Dallas Turner. Dallas Turner played 36 snaps in that season opener. He's played just 46 snaps in four games since. I thought what Kevin O'Connell said yesterday, or it would have been Monday about him, stood out when he said he's a young player,

he's working through it. He's in a defense where roles and responsibilities sometimes in-game can adjust based upon what we're seeing. That kind of stuff just says that it's mental. That kind of stuff says we are putting a lot on these edge rushers' plates, and he's a guy right now that is playing, and I'm paraphrasing, they didn edge rushers plates. And he's a guy right now that is playing. And I'm, this is, I'm paraphrasing. They didn't say this, but he seems like a guy who's playing slowly based upon everything that they're asking him to do. And I also think he's not the most physical guy right now.

He's, he's slight for an edge rusher. Speed was always his game. Beachy off the edge, the get off all of those things. He needs to get bigger physically. And he talked about that in August. I think our star tribunes, Mark Craig talked to him and he said, I'm, I already have a plan to put on weight, uh, next off season after my rookie year. And I think that plays a part in it when they, these edge rushers need to stop the run.

They need to move inside and also be versatile enough to push people up, uh, and press the pocket. And he's not at that point yet. If he's not winning with speed, he's not winning a ton right now in the NFL. And I think that plays a part. And when you see his good plays, it's the off the edge fourth down stop on Braylon Allen. It's the sack on Daniel Jones in the opener. Those are speed plays.

And I think if he can play fast, if he can feel confident in what he's doing, that is when you'll start to see his talent come to life. And right now in this defense, it is not flexible for rookies. They are not going to bend and say, you know what, we will just put you, wind you up and put you on the right edge and say, just go, go, go. That's not how this defense is ever going to be. They're multiple, they're versatile, they change, they're shape-shifting, and it requires a lot of each individual to know what to do. It's a reason why Caleb Evans is not on the field. It's a reason why you're not seeing a ton of guys who have played before have a lot of different diverse roles. You need to be like Patrick Jones and play edge and play interior. You need to be like Jihad Ward and do all that as well. Van Ginkle plays everywhere. And then also, you mentioned it, Matt. Sometimes it's just as simple as the dudes in front of you are balling. And Jonathan Grenard is amazing. Andrew Van Ginkle is amazing. And Patrick Jones has five sacks. Where's the lane for him to get in there and show a lot? So I think you're right.

I think Brian Flores said, Cashman's out. We need a bunch of guys to play standup interior Dallas. You've done it before in Alabama. Let's see how you do with it against the lions. He played two snaps of that. He played two snaps on the edge. None of them went particularly well, and that's why he didn't play a ton. Yeah. The Jonathan Grenard thing. If there's a comparable for what I see Dallas Turner being. It's actually Jonathan Grenard because the guy wins with speed all the time and he's an absolute technician. He's been amazing. He might be the best off-season signing in the entire NFL. He is third in the league in pressures

and Nick Bosa just got ahead of him and Aiden Hutchinson had been leading. So if he continues to do this, he's, I mean, in the conversation for the best player at that position on the edge. Also, Andrew Van Ginkle has as many or more pressures as Montez Sweat and TJ Watt this year. I mean, it's like, who are you supposed to bench to play Dallas Turner? But this also could end up being a little bit of an issue for next year as well, because both those players are contract going into the future and then you're saying what do we do with this guy but for right

now rookies are allowed to develop and as long as he could stay patient on a good football team he will get his opportunities to get in i think i don't think it's any sort of is this lewis seen all over again push the panic button or anything like that? No, I don't either. And I will say that this is a contract year for Patrick Jones. It's setting up perfectly for somebody else to pay him. Dallas steps up into that number three role, plays much more. Patrick's playing over 50% of every game. They are rotating these guys in. So I think there is a role for Dallas in the future. But you're right in terms of starting full-time 100% role. They got these two guys for the next two years Grenard and Van Ginkle I also think that they thought and will knock on whatever my desk is made of when I say this but I think they also looked at the

injury history of Van Ginkle and Grenard and probably said we might need another guy there because those dudes have missed a lot of games recently and so far they've been healthy all right let's talk about this football game it does Matthew Stafford still scare you um no he doesn't because this this is a broken dude and he's playing now and by most accounts healthy, but he's been through so much physically. And I think that this Brian Flores defense, they obviously hit quarterbacks. I think they're going to get, get to them.

I think they're going to hit him a few times. And I think Stafford's not going to want much part of it in the second half, especially when it's just Cooper cup on offense. It's a defense. That's a sieve that's giving up plays left and right. The Cardinals have not been consistent or good against anybody. They put up 41 on this Rams team not that long ago. I just don't think the Rams are good. I think defensively, like I said, they're a mess. So I think if Stafford gets put in a spot where it's, hey, Matt, go win it for us.

Be our savior. I just don't think he's got the tools to do it right now. And at this age and at this physical point, it's just, it's those hits from Turner, those, or excuse me, uh, Grenard Van Ginkle, those hits from, um, even Harrison Phillips or whatever, that's going to weigh on him. He's going to feel it. And so, no, he doesn't scare me, but what he is going to do is he's going to get the ball out quickly. He's going to know exactly where it needs to go. You're just going to need the secondary to rally and tackle guys named Whittington, Parkinson, guys like that. Yeah, Tutu Atwell, though.

Good for him. Good for Tutu Atwell. He's getting his chance. He was kind of their maligned draft pick. And I, you know, anytime, like withwis scene thing where it's just fans pile on and stuff like that that draft pick kind of got piled on because he was so small and uh good for him so he's making plays but stafford only averages seven yards per pass attempt uh touchdown to interception ratio is not the best statistic but uh three touchdowns in six games is not what you expect from him and the big stat here 17 times

sacked for Matthew Stafford and this is a pass rush that has been tremendous and even though they did not get to Jared Goff maybe enough to throw him off from how good he was they still sacked him way more than he usually gets sacked four times. They still pressured him way more than he usually gets pressured by the numbers. And that offensive line is the best in the league. When I went back and watched the tape, I just thought, gosh, Goff just made a bunch of great plays with men in his face, people falling at his feet. He just kept his eyes downfield. But if you do anything remotely similar to the Los Angeles Rams they are nowhere

close to the Detroit Lions I think the defensive line and the blitzers will be like oh wow this is way easier this is way more fun uh to get to Stafford so he doesn't uh scare me from that perspective but he still has the canon that you worry about the big play every once in a while and there have been some big throws uh to tyler johnson who everyone knows the gophers to to to atwell the down the field stuff and we finally saw a team test the vikings down the field when it wasn't garbage time and the lions were able to hit on some deep shots including that long touchdown so i'm intrigued by that yeah here's the thing i think the v Vikings defense, I think the lions are matched up perfectly to beat the Vikings defense in ways that if you have protection, you can eat up

the zones of this defense. They do not play a lot of man to man. They are an older secondary. They wanted to play more man to man, which they do, but they don't play bump and run. They play off and then they rally. And those are things, those are all designed to not put a lot of mileage on your corners to make sure they're not getting beat deep and getting outrun. If you can protect and you can at least find the soft spots in these zone coverages they love to run, that's how you beat them. And that's how the Vikings got beat by Jared Goff often over the middle of the field where they missed Cashman yes but Stefan Gilmore just got when he was up at the line got shook by Kalief Raymond falls over

for a big 21-yard touchdown those are the kind of plays that you know or that I think of the Amon Raw touchdown for 30 plus yards Penesul blocked two dudes the Vikings sent everybody they were blitzing and obviously Penesul somehow blocks Jonathan Bullard and then gets an arm out to hit pace. If you can protect and fire over the middle, you can beat this Vikings defense because they just their secondary is older and they're not playing in a way that's truly sticky and aggressive that you see a ton of around the league that that gives quarterbacks issues so the rams are not equipped to do that yeah you're right i think they're going to walk in there and this is it is a thursday game they're sloppy generally so they might not be totally clean and precise but by the second half i think the vikings are going to be pretty much steamrolling this rams team i also think too that when you get beat on one particular thing in a game, everybody says, Oh, we'll do that to them. And also the defensive coordinator says we will find a fix for that.

Um, and, uh, if they don't have Blake Cashman doesn't look like they're going to, then that will still be a factor as far as covering the middle of the field. Cause that was a big issue for them. Cashman is so good at feeling route combinations behind him there were certain plays where if there's a linebacker who just gets a little bit more depth than a route over the middle is taken away and that's something i think cashman has done so well at covering a lot of ground when the ball is coming in his direction became very clear that they need him and probably won't have him this week last thing the defensive line of the Rams is the one good thing about the Rams roster. They have dudes who can get after the quarterback. I am very

interested to see Jared verse, but no edge rusher should ever be concerning now to the Vikings, but Kobe Turner a little bit. I think Kobe Turner is kind of a playmaker on the inside and I, he might be playing against Dalton Reisner in this game who practiced in full all week I am thinking maybe I guess we'll find out is there anything about the Rams defense that makes you think that the Vikings offense can't put up a lot of points against them no because I think they're going to be able to run the ball. I think Aaron Jones, this is one of the worst run defenses in football, the Rams are.

I think Aaron Jones is going to go wild. I think what they just did against the Lions, what they just faced, I know Hutchinson wasn't there, but McNeil and Reeder are probably one of the best defensive tackle tandems in football. And the Vikings just had to deal with that. When I talk about the Lions being matched up perfectly to beat the Vikings, that's another factor is that they have such a good interior D line. It presses on that weak point for Minnesota, the Rams,

Aaron Donald's long gone. They don't have a whole lot there. I think they took a second round kid, um, Fisk who's injured now off the latest game against the Raiders. So he might not play. Um, no, it doesn't scare me. Cause I think what's going to happen is the Vikings are going to get into third and three, third and two, second and four. I just think it's going to be really easy situations that if they don't hurt themselves like they keep doing. And it's a Thursday night, so maybe things won't be crisp and maybe they will get into first and 15 and second and 20. That would certainly hurt them regardless of who they're playing. But they have the capability and the talent to be in good downs and distances, control this game. And as long as Sam Darnold doesn't make some big mistakes, which to his credit, he hasn't.

We talk about him leaving plays on the field. He had just one turnover in that game, which is probably a stat the Vikings hold up and say, let's keep doing that part. You know, that's probably the priority when you have a defense like this. So Sam just needs to manage this game, hand the ball off. There's not a whole lot about this Rams defense that worries me. And I guess the only other person we should have mentioned is Kyron Williams. That's the whole Rams offense. If you stop him on the other side, you know, Stafford Cup, they're great. But if you stop Kyron, I mean, you're going to stop this Rams team. The totals of points that the Rams have given up just game by game here, 26, 41, 24, 24, 24, and 15 to Las Vegas, who has no idea what they're doing.

That's a, that's a lot of points to give up on a weekly basis. And I think we should pick the game now to wrap up the show. And I'm going to give them a lot of points, the Vikings against this Rams defense for exactly the reasons you laid out. I'm going to say the Vikings win this game, something like 27 to 14 i i think that's fair yeah i like that i'm picking the vikings to win big multiple scores their biggest win since the texans game i don't think it's going to go quite that way because again it's a thursday night game

on the road long flight out west coast teams that face the lions for some reason statistically have not done well the week after i wonder if it's the physicality or whatever of playing them, but it's also a small sample size early in this season. So I think the Vikings will do just fine eventually. It just might take the second half for them to pull away and really dominate. But yeah, two-score win, 27-14, 30-14, something like that. What percentage of the crowd do you think will be a Minnesotan Thursday night? Is it harder? Do you think it's going to be completely purple? No, I think a lot of Vikings fans will have taken Thursday, Friday off, gone down for the game. And

yeah, they always, I'm trying to remember the last time we went, it wasn't too long ago. We went down there for a game, but Vikings fans always travel well, whether it's Vegas, whether it's LA, if there's a destination that's okay to go to, and it's not Cleveland, whatever Vikings fans will absolutely flood their way there. So yeah, I think it'll be probably 50% purple and I don't know, the Dodgers are in the world series. LA is just not a football NFL pro town. If they are, it is the Rams because of the history there. But every time we go to SoFi stadium, look around and go who's the home team because it just doesn't seem like fans really come out for those teams Las Vegas was probably 80% Vikings

fans and uh I think it was 2021 that we went to Los Angeles and the world was a little bit different in 2021 travel maybe more people are comfortable with it now I just wondered about the Thursday night element I'm gonna I'm gonna guess that it'll be like maybe 60, 40 Rams fans. I think the Rams fans are still maybe buzzing from having a championship, not that long ago, but I do expect a lot of purple in this game anyway. Well,

I will see out there. So enjoy your travels and we'll break down the next one next week. A prime time flexed game, two prime timers in a row for the Vikings. So thanks so much, Andrew, for all your time, sir.

Thanks, man. Nobody believed in the Vikings, but here they are back to back prime time games. How about that? No one believed that they could be flexed and yet they were flexed football, football.