Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Star Tribune's Ben Goessling talks cornerbacks and about the value of Vikings training camp

Episode Date: August 11, 2020

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Ben, it has been so long since you and I appeared on a podcast together. It has been a minute, but it's good to be back on with you. It should be a fun throwback to the old Purple Podcast days. purple podcast days i want to say the last time that we would have done it would have been 2016 off season or 2017 off season after the 2016 season we would have been like going through otas or maybe the draft i specifically remember a conversation about jabril peppers that we had so it must have gone at least through the draft before you went to the star tribune yes that would be right because i went to the Star Tribune in the middle of training camp that year. It was like I had – I think I was down at training camp the first weekend for ESPN, and then I had like a day off where I went back up to Minneapolis

and then came back down after a couple days of orientation and started at the Strip. So, yeah, I would have been right around that time sounds about right. Right. You were switching jobs while covering a training camp, and that was sort of odd. But you and I got to podcast our way all the way through 2016 of Teddy Gets Hurt, and I think our first podcast is like the next day. Yeah. Because that was your first day on the job, wasn't it?

It was, yeah. Well, I wasn't there, but that was my first day moving to Minnesota. And then my first day on the job was right after it happened, which is I think the fourth preseason game against the Rams in which Jared Goff didn't even start. And, you know, or no, he did start. That's right. He did start. He was the number one overall pick, and he was starting the fourth preseason game.

But I have no idea what happened because it was so wild Spielman talked before that game and then you know yeah we talked about the back of the press box and he was basically trying to I think sell people on the idea that Sean Hill was going to be the guy which was for the purposes of trying to basically tell the rest of the NFL, I'm not going to just bend over and give you whatever you want for a quarterback and then come to find out the day of cutdowns they made the trade for Sam Bradford. Right. So that was my first trip ever to the fair.

I was getting off the bus at the fair the minute they traded for Sam Bradford, and then I met Patrick Royce in person and I mean that whole season we could spend five more podcasts on but you know Adrian Peterson drama eyeball problems Norv Turner quitting person hanging from a truss it was a lot that was the moment at the end of that season because you and and I had this, this running debate the whole year about whether that season merited a list on like craziest Vikings years ever. And I think I was pretty consistent, like,

no, 2010 is weirder. Uh, 2005, I, the, the older Vikings beat writers. So this will be year nine for me,

but guys that have been around since the early two thousands, I think also put 2001 in that conversation with Corey Stringer. And then, um, year nine for me, but guys that have been around since the early 2000s. I think also put 2001 in that conversation with Corey Stringer and then Denny Green gets fired at the end of the year, that whole thing. But it was when, I think I remember we were at US Bank Stadium and we saw the guys swinging from the chandeliers on the last day of the season. I think you came over and said, now? Are we finally there? Are we finally in the top five?

Because I think the point we had used was 2010, the Metrodome roof collapsed. And it's like Brand New Stadium, we had people swinging from the rafters. And I think that was the moment I finally said, yeah, okay, we can at least have the conversation. There were events almost every other week that year. I mean, the plane in Green Bay goes off. Oh, man, I forgot about that one. They all had to be whatever you call it,

whatever the guys go up on to cut down trees, like it had to be brought down player by player. Yeah, that's right. So player by player, they had to bring them down off of the runway. So, yeah, I think it does qualify. I do not believe that it beats 2010. When the roof collapses on the stadium, you just can't really top that. So those were our only experiences podcasting together. You went to the Strib. Courtney Cronin took over as my podcast partner then, but now I can talk to whoever I want with

Purple Insider. So I'm really glad we can catch up again. And what I wanted to start with, Ben, is a topic of one of today's Zoom calls, which is just how football is going to be different. No preseason, very limited practices, and a lot of the guys talked about how they don't think it will be worse. In fact, maybe there's an argument that it will be better because everybody is really fresh.

Now, I think that that's quite the spin on a wild situation in which they're just getting back to practice for two actual weeks before they've got to play a real, like, legit padded practice. It's a tough sell for me that football is going to be better when we get to week one. Yeah, I'm with you. I have a little bit of a hard time buying it. It's the thing sell for me that football is going to be better when we get to week one. Yeah, I'm with you. I have a little bit of a hard time buying it. It's the thing they have to say right now, obviously, because there's not really any way to get around it. They're not going to have preseason games that's been agreed to. That was what the players pushed for. So it's not just

that they are being handed something that they didn't really want in the first place, they are being given the thing that their union advocated to get. So for a lot of reasons now, both to tell the company mind with the team and with the union, you have to come out and say, yeah, this is going to be just fine. There's no reason to expect otherwise. But I think we're all within our rights to wait around and kind of look at it critically in some ways because it's a lot that you're trying to get done. And I think certainly for different guys, it's going to be a different story. If you look at a guy like Kirk Cousins, who's in year nine in the NFL, I mean, he needs to get on the same page with some of the younger guys.

But in terms of can he play the position, can he execute the offense, yeah. I wouldn't say I'd be worried about that. If you were trying to figure out offensive line combinations, if you're trying to figure out if your corners can play in year one without any of the preseason stuff, I think it's a little different. So it's certainly going to be the most interesting thing to watch out there when we get out there in a couple of days of when the pads go on, how do you try to get these guys ready and how ready will they be?

Because as we've talked about, you don't get the dress rehearsal where if everybody's being extra grabby, like I remember Trey Wayans in his first preseason game was a Hall of Fame game against Pittsburgh, and then he got hit with a couple of long DPI penalties. If that happens to Jeff Gladney, it's not a Hall of Fame game. It's you are at risk of being 0-1 in the division at home. So different set of circumstances, and I think it's certainly reasonable to listen to what they're saying

with a healthy amount of skepticism. I've always been on the side that the preseason does not matter for anybody who's actually been out there and done it before in the NFL. So if you've played real games before and you're in the same offense, but even if you're not in the same offense, are you running Gary Kubiak's full offense in a preseason game? No, you're totally not. But on a defense

that has a lot of new faces and with battles that are really tight between some guys, it is going to be harder to evaluate who's ready to go. And with a lack of padded practices, that's where I think it's really tough because we've seen this many times that someone has a good preseason game and they go, yeah, okay, well, he's not really the guy though. And we've already this many times that someone has a good preseason game and they go yeah okay well he's not really the guy though and we've already kind of decided this but good for him that he had a good preseason game examples that come to mind i can't think of any uh but if anybody's uh anybody has been in this situation their dad wants to tweet me they can that would make somewhat of a difference for those position battles but i think the tinkering is part of it. We saw this in 2017

where they tinkered with that offensive line and they came to the conclusion at the end of camp, you know what, Nick Easton should actually play starting guard after battling in the camp practices at center most of the time. I think that's the area where they're going to miss out. Now, how big that has to do with the full season when everyone's dealing with the same problem, then I don't know. Yeah, I mean, you're're right because that was like right at the end I mean they had I think they went into that season not having the the five offensive linemen that they were going to start having played a single snap in a configuration that they decided on which sort of tells you that the preseason is ultimately not the the arbiter of what happens in those decisions, but it,

it's also easier to get to those spots where you figure out, okay, this is the right place for somebody to be when you have the time to tinker with it. And it's not just a lack of practice time. It's the fact that you are, I mean, this, this thing they've been doing the last week or so here is trying to make up for the loss of otas i mean they have almost treated this last week or two like it's ota phases and mini camp all of this time you didn't have to to take a look at different things and have tape for your scouts to watch have tape for your scouts to watch, have tape for your coaches to critique. That, I think, is a bigger issue than preseason games where everybody's running a super simple game plan and nobody is prepping for anybody. The loss of practice time, I think, is probably

just as detrimental, probably more so than the preseason. That's going to be really hard, and this is where the Ezra Cleveland playing guard thing, I look at as much more of he's going to be a backup, he's going to be familiar with that position, but if they need him at guard or tackle, that's where he's going to play. It's fun to talk about, hey, what if this rookie plays guard? Maybe he could be better than the other guys, because the other guys are proven to be bad, But there's also something that has to be taken into account with any of these players. This might even go for someone like Jeff Gladney. You can't work in Jeff Gladney the same way with Justin Jefferson.

Let's say Jefferson only understands one-third of the playbook, which would be totally understandable if he did. Sure. Okay, well, let's work him in on that one-third of the playbook. With a corner, it's like you've got to guard the best in the world. You've got to go up against Devontae Adams right away, potentially in the first game. If you can't handle that, if you're not ready for that right away

without a full training camp, without full preseason, then you might have to play somebody else with a little more experience, even if it's in the cornerback, a little tiny, tiny bit more experience like Chris Boyd. I mean, I think that this is something that they will really have to consider whether they want to put rookies in that situation right away. Yeah, I think you see, I mean, you even heard it a little bit this week when Gary Kubiak was talking about the offensive line, and we all kind of said, okay, you have four of

your five back, you're going to go with that same group, but you're kind of left in a spot where you don't have a choice. I mean, there's not the time to sit and play with different combinations and work different scenarios in practice. I mean, Ezra Cleveland plays a perfect example. You're going to have him on the active roster, obviously, because he's your left tackle in the future. He's a second-round pick. You're not going to cut him.

So you're going to have him on your game-day roster, and if you're going to have him have any value, he has to know how to do different things than just be the left tackle. But you're also not probably going to consider a lot of these things that seriously simply because you don't have time to plan for every little thing that could go wrong. Because we've seen enough Vikingsikings packers games that come down to a play or two that if jeff gladney is in there and there's one mistake where he's in the

wrong spot it turns into a 45 yard touchdown in a in a six point game that's it so there's going to be a lot of attention paid especially from coaches who are habitually worried about the one thing that could sink you from habitually worried about trying to prevent that thing from happening I tend to think there's going to be more of an emphasis on let's avoid any of the potholes that could come with an experience and let's just kind of go with what we know and at some positions not being negative is a positive like if you could just be zero you are good i think of riley reef this way like riley reef does not go one percent above average or one percent below average she's like right on the money if you were if you were evaluating a draft prospect you would ask yourself is this guy going to be better than Riley Reif?

Because that's kind of like a great way to look at it. Like Kirk. If this guy is not as good as Kirk Cousins, we shouldn't pay him a huge contract. He's the bar you have to get over. But with a corner, if you have big negative plays, even if you are great for 85% of the game, if you have three, four plays that go negative, you're talking about touchdowns.

And we saw this last year from Xavier Rhodes where it was a few big mistakes, but it ended up being game-changing in some situations, especially against the Seattle Seahawks where a whole game is changed and essentially lost on that one mistake by Xavier Rhodes. Well, imagine that now with all these guys stepping in that don't have experience. So with that said, if you want to say more, you can. But with that said, I'm curious from your perspective, which battle you think is the most important?

Not just like are you interested in because it's intriguing and there are names, but do you think has the most value toward what happens in 2020 on the field? Well, I mean, the corners, I think even when you take the young guys out of it, if you say that Jeff Gladney and Cameron Dantzler are going to take more time to come along because of all the things we just outlined and because of what we know about Mike Zimmer in the sense that he doesn't want to have to rush his corners, there's still a lot. Even if you take the guys that were on last year's roster there's a lot to figure out is mike hughes and every down guy outside is he your nickel

is holton hill able to stand up to a full season's worth of action is chris boyd gonna be able to figure it out i mean there's a lot just with with those three guys and where they line up that I think is, I really think that a lot of this season is going to hang on how much they can get from their corners. And there certainly are other questions, but I just, man, in the NFL, when you are the first year, I mean, Mike Zimmer got this job in part because of this scenario, if you think about it. 2013, they're coming off a playoff berth in 2012 where basically everything went right,

and it set the bar high enough that everybody said, okay, you've got to go do it again. They come out with Chris Cook, A.J. Jefferson, and a miscast Xavier Rhodes, who was playing like cover two corner, not pressing at all. He was still in on the old Tampa two. And then Josh Robinson, who they tried as a nickel, which was a complete disaster.

So they ran into a situation that year where they gave up more points than any team in the league, went from playoff team to missing the playoffs in a year where Aaron Rodgers broke his collarbone, that the division was kind of up for grabs. That set of events was what made them say, okay, we got to go in a different direction. We got to freshen this thing up. And Mike Zimmer comes in. That first year, I distinctly remember him talking a lot about the teams that win are the teams that do not screw up. You don't have to go out and, and specifically with corners, she talks about

this all the time. It's not, I want guys to have six picks. It's if you have six picks and you're gambling and you get beat for, you know, four touchdowns in the course of those same set of reps, that's not good. If you have a game where you have two interceptions, but you also give up three big catches, I don't look at that and say, hey, you had a great day. So a lot of it I think he's going to look at as who can not screw up. The do no harm sort of philosophy I think is going to be a big part of this. And, frankly, it probably has to be just given what they're working with.

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but you can liven up where you're watching them from. You want to get SodaStick's very cool prints. Go to SodaStick.com. That's S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K.com and use the promo code PURPLEINSIDER for free shipping. I like the nickel position as the most interesting battle. Or the one, I phrased it to you as a question and not to myself, the one that holds the most value.

Because we have seen this in the past. Remember when Mackenzie Alexander first started and tried to play nickel before he had any experience there? Oh, my gosh. It was a disaster, and they ended up going with Terrence Newman for a year instead of Alexander. And then Alexander midway through 2018, something clicked for him. He got it, and he played pretty well the last two years.

I had a stat in an article that i just published about nickel corner that over the last two seasons in terms of pro football focuses war statistic that they've been sort of um rolling out a little bit yeah a little bit of a soft launch yep testing the waters a little bit with but in terms of what they think is valuable and above replacement, his last two seasons, McKenzie and Alexander's, were worth more than Everson Griffin's last three, which I think tells you a little something about defensive ends and pressure and how you can manufacture pressure, but you cannot manufacture a guy covers another guy. You can't manufacture a guy knows which patterns to match. You can't manufacture a guy run fits correctly and tackles the running back. You can manufacture, hey, well,

you know, if the defensive end isn't getting pressure, then we're going to send a blitzer to that side or the opposite side or whatever it might be. I think that as great as Daniil Hunter is, Mike Zimmer has manufactured a lot of his sacks by drawing attention to the other side of the field. He gets lined up with a tight end because of how the offense shifts the protection. And then he gets an easy sack. Like those are sort of examples of how that can be done.

I want, I have two games for you that I want to get to. But first. Two? Two of them. Yeah. One is for a throwback. Cause we used to do, right.

I'm hoping that's in there. Yes. But then I've a little bit like I'm a mild rapid fire, but I want to just talk about how much I have missed training camp because you and I have been out there for the last, I guess it would be four of them. And you know, this is your fifth one,

right? Yes. Right. 2017 was my first real full camp 2016 i got there at the end of camp so yep um one of the things that i love about camp well i mean you know the random players and stuff like that and the funny storylines that pop up you know michael floyd is dominating you know that kind of thing um but uh, he was smoking that third team in 2017. Yeah. But I've always felt this way, Ben, that after we walk out of camp,

we've got a really good idea of where it's going to go. Like the way in 2017 Bradford was playing, we thought this could be a seriously good team, or at least I thought this is the Sam Bradford that everybody always heard of. And then, you know, 2018, we stood on the sideline watching the offensive line going, no, something about this doesn't look quite right. And then last year we knew there were problems with one, Stefan Diggs, that was quite clear. So what are we missing here?

Like what would we feel if we were out there like for these first couple of weeks? Well, I mean, a lot of it is just I think the time you get and in this was better in Mankato in a sense that you saw more off the field I guess probably I mean the on the field access for us has not changed that much since they moved to Eagan but going to Mankato you would get a little bit more time to kind of get a sense of what guys are thinking going into the season, and you had a chance to chat a little bit more when the access was a little more open. So you picked up on some of those things, but a lot of it, I think, is just being able to watch the unscripted interactions that we don't see, frankly, during the season at all. And you don't see very often other than those times where you just get to see the whole list of what they're doing.

The one that sticks out to me is you mentioned 2018. There was a moment in a practice that year where they were running a two-minute drill and things developed really, really slowly. And Zimmer got mad because I think they ran too much time off the clock, and Zimmer started yelling at Cousins saying, we've got to go do this again, in so many words. And then Cousins turns around to DeFilippo, basically says, hey, that play call took way too long to come in.

The verbiage was too much. And you're kind of thinking, okay, there's a disconnect here somewhere. And that was just a hint of it, and it was a snapshot. But it sticks out a little bit as I think about that season where you get to the end of it, and it's like, okay, the coach, the offensive coordinator, and the quarterback on some level or another are all kind of talking past each other. And those types of things, I mean, sometimes it's a moment that doesn't matter that much in the grand scheme of things.

Sometimes it's a little bit of a snapshot that you look back and say, oh, okay, so this hints at some of the other things you hear that creates a problem like that. So it's those types of things. It's seeing how players are interacting with each other. I think in some ways you get a little bit more of a sense of perhaps not the orchestrated part of it. Because so much of the NFL, in terms of what the public sees vis-a-vis what we see is pretty orchestrated. And training camp gives you a little bit of the ability to get beyond that.

And I hope that's still the case next week or later this week, I guess, when we're out there. But I mean, that's a lot of what you miss when you're not there. And I think it's a lot of what fans miss when we're not there. Just that ability to kind of have a little bit closer look at it and you spend enough time doing it that you get pretty good at kind of getting a sense of where things are going. Well, when we have a full camp, we also get a huge sample size of seeing it day after

day after day. And we see guys kind of have little flashes where they might be good. But then you see someone like B.C. Johnson emerge just slowly through the whole thing. And a lot of people will see oh well he had that one good preseason game or something but it was really this ascension throughout the entire camp of like oh BC's the one guy who can line himself up without falling down and going into the fetal position like most of the other receivers that they had in last year's

yeah yes um I'll give you one from 2018, too. There was a day where it was kind of raining, and we had to be sort of huddled up underneath something, like part of the building. We were all, like, standing back. But we were watching them, and there was somebody got banged up on the offensive line, and Brian O'Neal was trying guard that day. And we were like, this is not going to work.

This is just not going to work remember Nick Easton had gotten hurt and he was supposed to be the starter in 2018 and his back was messed up I think it was and then that was the end of his season and we looked at the offensive line we're like this I don't know how Kirk Cousins is going to be able to overcome this and I felt the same way about some of those play calls. And even going back to OTAs, at one point, and this is back in 2018, but at one point, Cousins got so frustrated, he threw the ball into the road. Oh, yes, yes. He got so mad that they were struggling, and he hooked the ball into the road.

And then, if you recall, I don't know if it was the same day. Probably not, because there was another day where he said they were having a pity party because they were so mad yes yes execute it's like i don't know you guys are talking super bowl or bus we're talking are you gonna like get along with each other for the full season and spoiler they didn't well it was it was him saying him and adam thielen i think we're having a pity party that's right and fast forward to how that season ends, sidelining in Chicago. Yeah. I mean, sometimes, not always. And, but sometimes on those things, there is a through line from where it goes at the beginning to where it

ultimately goes at the end. And again, not always. And sometimes we think we know and it doesn't go that way, but there are times where you get those little snapshots that you kind of look back and say, oh, yeah, okay. I see where this went bad. I think of everything that I do as if, like, NFL Films was doing it. So, like, they broke the camp with concerns about the offensive line or something. You know what I mean? Like that kind of thing.

And that was definitely for that season. But then I always will think it's ironic that the first two weeks the offense looks pretty good and they they go to Green Bay Kirk has one of his best games of his career and we're like oh maybe DiFilippo and Kirk get a long grade and everything is fine and then the Bills game happened and you know after that um lots of other stuff as well so um anyway, it just, it leaves a hole in the season for me a little bit for not like it's the setting the stage part of it that I that I now don't get. Game number one for you. It's the best. As frankly, it's it's the best access we get all year. It's the only time I mean, the old days, the NFL beat writers got to watch practice every day that obviously

doesn't. And I think for those of us who, those of the listeners who follow this stuff close enough probably know this, but during the regular season, we see what, 10, 15 minutes of practice a day. We basically go there. Yeah, warmups. Stretch. Pretty much it. Individual drills and that's it.

So it's the best chance that we get to kind of see how things are going to go and who's looking good and how they use certain guys. And, you know, a lot of times people will say, it's training camp, it doesn't matter that much. The film that they're looking at and the things they're making decisions on and things they're trying, they don't look at it that way. They see this as this is a data point for us to use in terms of how we decide how our roster is going to go.

So if they're putting stock in it, it's important, and it means that when we get a chance to see it, it's valuable to keep some of those things in mind too. So it's just – I'm excited to be out there. I think it's going to be i i hope that we are able to hear some of the things that we normally get to hear just some of the interactions that add a little bit of liveliness to it i don't know where we're going to be sitting but uh it you know it'll just be good to watch some football live and get a chance to try to evaluate

this thing over something other than a zoom call. My understanding is that I can stand in the O in Lando Lakes this year. We were not allowed on the Lando Lakes logo, but there's no one there to see it, so I want to stand in the O from Lando Lakes. Right, yeah. I mean, I think that was always the thing of they needed the sponsorship to be visible or something. So this year it doesn't matter. Makes sense.

I'm sure Lando Lakes paid a lot for that hill. So you don't want people – More than we paid for media credentials. So, okay, two games. First game is I want to know, are you buying? And then I'm going to tell you what. So then you can tell me – All right.

So Andre Patterson the other day explained to us that, A, Shamar Stephan is way better at football than any of us think, which I think we all went like, okay, Andre, we know, we know, we know you love Shemar Stephan. But are you buying that the Vikings don't do anything more to the defensive tackle position, which is how Andre made it sound. He said, we got guys, we feel really good about them, and we're going forward. And of course, you know, we'll always remember the P.J. Hall era, but he's not here. So are you buying that they stick with this group of defensive tackles? I am buying it in the sense that it is, I think they like the group. I think that is true. I think they have some confidence in the guys they've brought in.

We can debate the Shamar Steffen thing, but Andre Patterson has talked about Shamar Steffen that way since 2014. That year, this guy's way better than a seventh-round pick. They're talking about him as a big steal. Love someone in your life like Andre Patterson loves Shamar Stafford. Yes, yes. There's – yeah, if you find someone that looks at you like Andre Patterson looks at him, yeah, I buy that.

I don't necessarily buy that this will be enough to get them to the finish line. I think they may end up in a situation where whether it's an injury or another guy becomes available that you just say, we have to do it. And Andre Patterson has an opinion in this that matters quite a bit, but his opinion is not the only one that will factor into this decision. That's what Mike Zimmer thinks. It's what the scouts think. It's what Rick Spielman thinks.

It's what George Payton thinks, the assistant general manager. I mean, those – it may be that he feels good about the group, but I don't know that I completely buy that they won't add somebody. Because, I mean, you look at the last few years, they've done that more often than not, whether it's Tom Johnson coming back or adding a veteran in a different position along the way. If there's a cut that – if it's a guy that like from the – like the thing with P.J. Hall that made sense is he's coming from the same scheme.

The Raiders with Paul Gunther run the same thing the Vikings do. So if there's somebody like that that is in a similar scheme and they can say, okay, we can bring you in and you can come in and contribute, yeah, I think they certainly would look at doing that. It makes it more difficult because you don't have time to get guys ready and you have to take control of the COVID test to get them in the building. But if there's something that makes sense, I certainly think they would take a look at it.

Are you buying that Afadia Denebo can handle the full duties of defensive end boy i i have a hard time buying the way it is being framed at the moment i guess i mean we talked about the great year he had last year and certainly he took a big step but i the thing to me is he did that while moving around to a lot of different spots. He has not had to go through the full week of, okay, you got 95 on Sunday and here are his moves. Here are the things he likes to go to.

And we have to take away these things and see if he's got a counter move or two in his bag. That's going to work. He hasn't had to really do that in the NFL. So I, yeah, I guess I have a hard time buying that the step forward is going to be as seamless as I think people hope it would be or expect it would be. That said, they have had a lot of success getting a lot of these guys ready. I mean, that group has been very, very good at kind of repeating the formula,

I think, as Andre Patterson talked about the other day. You find a long, lean pass rusher that looks like a basketball player, get him ready, and they've had a lot of success plugging those guys in. I just, yeah, I feel like that one's a little hard for me to completely buy. What do you think on that one? Because he has an interesting storyline here in camp. Before we get back to the conversation, got to let you know that Sunday, Sunday, Sundays are coming back in the NFL

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Have you ever heard of DealDash.com? It's the best, most honest bidding site where you can win things you'd never expect at a price that you'd never believe. They have over 1,000 auctions every day on electronics, appliances, beauty products, home decor, even cars. Here's how it works. It's like an auction, but every item starts at $0 and then goes up one cent every time you bid. The kicker is that the auction clock restarts every 10 seconds.

That means every time you bid, everyone else has 10 seconds to answer or the item is yours. If you go ahead and buy now, DealDash is offering up our listeners 100 free bids upon sign up on top of their other discounts. Go to DealDash.com and use the offer code INSIDER, DealDash.com.fm slash insider. That is D-E-A-L-D-A-S-H.fm slash insider. Yeah, I think that even replacing Everson griffin is just a different kind of animal than almost any other player at that position in the league because he did everything he played every play he stuffed the run he had moves upon moves upon moves as an artist but also was as powerful as any player and was, we saw this when he was gone in 2018,

a little bit of a hardened soul of the defense. Yeah, yeah. The way I would put it is like an engine, like an engine of the defense. Like it sort of starts with him, and that's just different. I do think that Ifadi will have a lot of opportunities that do not include chips or tight ends over him or things like that because everyone's going to be like oh yeah we haven't blocked neil hunter in years so maybe try paying a little more attention over there so that will help him but yeah i think that they would be wise

to do a lot of the same things they did with him last year where if it's third and ten you're lining him up over guard and you're giving him that opportunity rather than maybe James Lynch can do it. Maybe he can't or, you know, leaving Shamar Stephan in on third down. I don't think that's a good idea. So can you still maybe move a body around, but then you need somebody else over there. So is Anthony Zettel a thing? Is Eddie Yarborough a thing?

Like, I don't know. I mean, do you want them ready? Right. Probably not. Roll the dice. Yeah. Because he didn't really do much in college in terms of production so that's kind of a tough sell for me is kenny willock he's like a

long shot guy if you find someone else who could be a situational rusher i think you can make the most there going up against like like ever i don't i don't think it's gonna happen no i don't think so either yeah um but it's still out there, and I get asked every day. I'm sure you do too. Like, is there any chance? Yeah. Bring it up. I am definitely telling you there's a chance with Everson Griffin,

but it is, I think, unlikely still. But, you know, I look at that like his pressure rate, if I thought he was last year, in very favorable circumstances, still wasn't what Everson Griffin's usually is. So that's going to be a hard one to match. Well, yeah, I mean, because I think Everson ended up with one more sack than Afadi did last year. But Everson had a lot of pressures. I mean, there were a lot of them where, and I remember talking towards the end of the season

where he kind of lamented this, that sack numbers aren't as high. And I know he was talking about this a lot, you know, just kind of internally and, you know, saying, I wish I had higher sack numbers. But, you know, the counter to that, people were telling him, like, dude, look at the pressures. You're right there, whether it's being a step behind to get to the guy where you still affect the pass rush or you get hit on the quarterback.

And he was, I think, top 15 in the league in terms of edge defenders in pressures not where Daniel Hunter was Daniel Hunter I think was second but did an awful lot and like you say Mike Zimmer has talked a lot over the years about let's get this defensive line rotation going but then at the end of every season you got two defensive ends that have played 800-plus snaps, whether it's been Griffin, Hunter, Brian Robinson, back in the early days of Mike Zimmer's defenses. That's been how they've gone, and that's a lot to step into. Yeah, yep. It's a huge role.

It's not just like, oh, can you line up on third downs or second and long to get sacks. It's can you do absolutely everything. And that's going to be tough. But the other thing is that he is – he's like a grown-ass man. I mean, we're sort of acting like, oh, he's like this young guy, but he's older than Daniel Hunter. And it's like if you can't do it now, then you'll know, and then you can go and get somebody else.

So I like the idea of not bringing back Griffin so you know whether Afadi Udenbo can play. I think there's value in knowing. Last one, are you buying that Delvin Cook will have a contract in his hands before they put pads on at, I mean, a new contract, contract extension, before they put pads on at practice? I am. And this could still go sideways, but, yes, I'm buying that it'll happen. I think, I mean, they have him scheduled to talk to reporters on Friday. And I think from what I've heard a little bit is it's getting closer. I mean, I don't know that they're there quite yet. I think the Vikings have been willing to get to the number

that he wants to be in terms of average annual salary. My sense has been the disconnect has had more to do with how it's structured than where they're eventually going to end up. And the Vikings have a history of doing this where it's kind of low ball, low ball, low ball, and then, okay, we're ready to get where we want to be and you know we've all said it and you get to the point where these things when you've watched the same front office for as long as we've all watched rick spielman the patterns get to be fairly consistent and one of them has been they like to have their open the new presence on christmas morning sort of thing when we are first out there and kind of, they can, they can show, Hey, the, the,

the plan is working. It's we draft, we develop, we sign our guys, we reward them. And here's the latest example of that. Whether it was Kyle Rudolph, whether it's been Stefan Diggs, ever since, I mean, the, the sort of spending spree they went on in, uh, 2017, I think when it was Rhodes, Joseph, Griffin. Kendrickson. They did all those within, yeah, even the ones at the beginning of training camp. Oh, yeah.

Sorry, I was talking pre-2018, but yeah. Yeah, no, the one in Mankato where it was. Right. Joseph had an extension, yeah. Yes, because we all thought Rhodes was coming, and they did Griffin and Joseph, I think, before Rhodes. It was like, whoa, okay. Because they had this big kind of cliff of free agents coming in 2018,

and they got ahead of it. And then they did Kendricks later, and then Diggs was the last one until they turned around and surprised us by bringing Anthony Barr back at the last minute. But, yeah, I mean, I guess I'm buying that it gets done. I think it'll get done later this week. I think there's something cooking between the two sides here for potentially coming. It's been awfully quiet.

It has, yes. It's a sign that something's going on. I think there would be more drama through certain reporters that often get those things leaked to them if this was going really badly. And, yeah, I'm getting that same feeling too. All right, to wrap up, a throwback here. We used to do quarterback trivia for you in 2016 when we did the Purple Podcast together.

Guess the crappy quarterbacks. That was the official name. Yes, it was. That'sbacks. Here is your official name. Yes, it was. That's right. Here is your question. So the Minnesota Vikings were scheduled to play Houston, Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Seattle in the preseason. Obviously, that's not happening. If the Vikings played those teams in 1993, oh my gosh, who would the quarterbacks have been and bonus points for any backups? So what I did is I went through every quarterback for Houston, of course it's the Oilers then, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Seattle, all of them and everyone who threw a pass for any of those teams

in 1993. So that's what you have to guess. All right. We'll just knock the starters out first and make it easy. Boomer Esiason. That is incorrect. No. Okay. Boomer is probably with the Jets by that point. So he was gone. So you have to think.

Okay. We'll come back. It went terrible. I'll just tell you it went terribly for them. Oh, the guy from Houston, David Klingler. You are correct. Okay. Yeah. The guy that threw like 600 passes a year in college

and then turned into nothing in the pros. Warren Moon. That is right. Dave Craig. Dave Craig is incorrect for Seattle. He would have been there before that. Rick Meyer is right. Yeah, he was the second pick in the draft.

And Cleveland was the other team. See, Bernie Kozar would have still been there. Correct. But he was not the leading passer in 1993. He was not. Okay. I think this could throw you for a loop a little bit. 1993.

Like, you definitely know this guy, but. Can I phone a friend and get Mark Craig on the phone? He would know. Like, you know this, but the crossover with Kosar and this guy is like, oh, I didn't realize they played the same season, because that's what the thought I had when I looked this up. Yeah. Oh, gosh.

So think of his next quarterback under Belichick. Yeah, who would it have been? I'm sure I'll know it when I hear it. Played forever. I'll put it this way. He'm sure I'll know it when I hear it. Played forever. He was, I'll put it this way, he was 30 then in 1993, and I think he retired in like 08.

Vinny Testaverde. Yes, correct. Vinny Testaverde. So you've got all the starters, Moon, Klingler, Testaverde, Meyer, and then Bernie Kosar. I will give you a couple clues on the backups. I'm not sure that you'll be able to get them. I know the one in Houston. Maybe it's the same guy.

Cody something. Cody Carlson. He played kind of a lot. Yeah, it was the Commander Cody was the nickname. Yeah. Moon would get hurt, and Cody Carlson would come into play. I'm going back through NFL primetime and trying to remember the Chris Berman nickname to talk my memory because I was like, I was 10 years old when this was going on.

And all of these things kind of get burned in your brain at a different level when you're a kid. Okay. So Cody Carlson. Yeah. As always, you're doing great here. Now the Cincinnati backup is amazing. This guy was the quarterback when the Oakland Raiders got blown out by the Buffalo Bills in the AFC championship game in, I think, 1991 or 1990. 51-3. Yeah, 51-3.

He was their quarterback. He also was competing with the year Doug Williams won the Super Bowl. This guy was the other guy that he was competing with and got hurt. Okay, so Jeff Hostetler got there later because Jeff Hostetler won the Super Bowl the year the Bills beat the Raiders. Ah, I can picture him. Yeah, you definitely know this guy. Big, giant face mask. Yeah, Jay Schrader.

Jay Schrader, correct. All right, now any of these other three, there's one I've never even heard of before who threw like six passes for Seattle, and that is Stan Gelbaugh. Sorry, Stan, I don't know you. Yeah, I've heard the name, but I wouldn't have gotten it. These other two, I don't even. This guy played for Seattle, and he was gargantuan.

I mean, he just was like the biggest man ever, and he threw it really hard. I know this. Don't tell me. Another giant face mask guy who only played a couple games. Yeah, and he was horrible. Dan McGuire. Dan McGuire is right. He was a first-round pick.

San Diego State. I miss this. The only reason I know that is I lived in San Diego as a kid. This is like – all these things have like some slumdog millionaire thing where it's something where I remember it from that. But lived in San Diego for a few years. I think Dan McGuire was the quarterback at that point when I was living out there. So whatever things I would have read about Aztec football

in the San Diego Union Tribune, stick in there for some reason. Dan McGuire, man. The other two, I don't even know well enough to have a hint for you. So we'll put them in the Gelbaugh category of Todd Philcox and Eric Wilhelm. I think, did Eric Wilhelm maybe play for San Diego Chargers for a little while? Maybe. Yeah, I think so.

I mean, those names come, come i mean they sound familiar i would not have gotten there in a at a time frame that would have been remotely interesting for people to sit there so probably this is good the fact that i tremendously pulled dan mcguire yeah that i will rest in the confidence of that boy there's a lot of i think mcguire and clingler both went in the 91 draft in the first round farb went in the second round of that draft so yeah both of those guys have the i think clingler eventually ended up in green bay so i don't know if he was there at the same time as farb probably was because he's a career winner the last night long. But, yeah, both those guys were drafted ahead of Favre, I believe. Yeah, and this is why you shouldn't get too worked up about the Vikings missing

on Treadwell because there are much worse misses than you can have. Yeah. Like, you think Dan McGuire. Yeah, those are not great. Yeah, that guy was – they were super excited about him because he was like, yeah, 6'10", he was like this physical freak, but 6'10". I don't know if he was, was it actually 6'10"? He was the slowest man I've ever seen. Was he really 6'10"? He is enormous though. Like I watched a game of him from, I don't know, not that long ago. I mean, not that long ago

I watched it. He's 6'8 what he was listening to. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I remember him being like historically large for quarterback. Yeah. Historically large. What a great sentence. Well, yeah, it was like this, like, Oh, this guy is, you know, he can throw the ball so far, but it's – It's also terrible. So they took him in the first round, and they took Rick Meyer two years later with the second overall pick. Dan McGuire, final stats for his whole career.

Imagine drafting a guy in the first round. Great mullet, though. This is a Paxton Lynch situation. He played five games, went two and three as a starter, with a 52.3 quarterback rating. Oh, gosh. 52.3. This guy was the 16th pick in the draft.

I mean, it just shows you how different this is, too, in the sense that I don't know how many of these picks the Seahawks GM at the time survived, but the level of scrutiny put on this stuff now, if you had had that guy now and you took one again two years later, I mean, you know, I guess you'd see it as visionary. That's how we look at the Cardinals with Kyler Murray, but a lot of these things you would not survive anymore. And I don't know off the top of my head if the GM at the time,

whoever it would have happened to be, survived. I guess Thomas Flores was the GM when they took Meyer. I don't know if he made the Dan Meyer pick as well. But, yeah, the scrutiny on this stuff is so much higher now. I just don't think you'd have guys that would survive it. This is doing much worse than Mitch Trubisky, kind of twice with Rick Meyer, too. Flores did pick them both. Yeah.

I would not let him pick a quarterback. He picked them both and then became the head coach as well. He replaced Chuck Knox as the head coach, was still the GM, picked them both. Yeah, wow. It's a different world. And Flores was with the Raiders. Like, he was a longtime Raiders coach, right? So he wanted guys with monster arms probably.

Sure. Oh, yeah. He got a long shot. The old Al Davis, Ken Stabler bit. The most Dan McGuire talk that you will find on any podcast in the Twin Cities, please rate and review. I think that's probably safe to say. Yeah, it is.

Maybe the only Dan McGuire talk you hear on a podcast in the Twin Cities. Well, let's hope. Ben, it's been super fun. And finally, we'll be out there and making memories, as always, again soon and not having to just do Zoom calls. So I really look forward to that and look forward to all of your great work this year, as always. And I hope we can catch up again soon.

I look forward to it. It's fun to catch up. It's fun to talk football and fun to bring back the crappy quarterbacks game. Man, we shook off the rust fast on that crappy quarterbacks game. Yeah. I mean, that's mid-season for them. That's an aggressive way to go at it. You know it's time for football when you're talking about

backup quarterbacks for more than two minutes at a time. That was Bradford showing up and then two weeks later hitting Diggs on a 45-yard pass. That was you playing Dan McGuire. Alright, Ben. Good stuff. We will definitely do it again. I'm ready for football. I am as well. Thanks, man. Sports are coming back. So are your chances to bet on your favorite teams and events. Major League Baseball finally kicking off. And there's no better place to start wagering than our exclusive partners,

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