Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - The Athletic's Alec Lewis talks about expectations for Lewis Cine and the 2023 draft class

Episode Date: May 23, 2023

Matthew Coller is joined by Alec Lewis of The Athletic to talk about his article on Vikings draft pick DeWayne McBride and how we are setting expectations for Lewis Cine, the Vikings young corners and Jordan Addison. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Purple Insider is presented by Oakley. Express yourself, build a look that's made for you. When you wear Oakley, there really is more than meets the eye. Try it for yourself. Oakley is not only the best looking, but the best quality. So head on over to oakley.com for more information today. Hello, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here, and I am looking a little bit red in the face and sweaty because I just got done playing basketball.

And joining me, Alec Lewis from The Athletic. So I'm a little out of breath, just ran inside from being outside shooting hoops. Beautiful day. And I don't know, I mean, last year you moved here kind of in the late summer but you did not have the full minnesota summer experience how crazy is it that just a few days ago it's the worst weather of all time you want to move away immediately and never come back and then you're like i don't remember winter this is fantastic it's it is absolutely incredible like these last few days, just walking around. I've spent time just walking around my apartment.

I have played golf with multiple people, including you. It really is beautiful and incredible, and it does make you forget it. It also, I just love, it's like everyone just came out of their apartment. Oh, my gosh, everybody. There's so many people who live here that I had no idea about. So it's been great. But really, I know you brought me on an interview about interview you about your basketball abilities and how it went today. So I guess I'm curious, how would you kind of break down your game uh what you were capable of earlier today oh uh well today i mean little windy out there little uh little rust to shake off from the winter but my game is solid i i can really do one thing really well and that is shoot and everything else pretty spotty. I do not have great length or athleticism or quick twitch,

or I am not a great ball handler. I think I play hard on defense, but I don't have any speed like I used to. But if you line them up, I will knock them down. So that is the one thing I can do. That is my one basketball superpower. The Miami Heat would maximize your abilities is what I'm hearing. I mean, I'm thinking Duncan Robinson will get you four years, 80 million if you're up for it. I was just saying that as I was shooting and nailing a bunch of threes.

It's like the Miami Heat actually, it is amazing. And you think about there is a connection here to like Vikings and sports and everything else. So that the Miami heat find these players who do one thing really well, and that's make open shots. And last time I checked in basketball, that's pretty freaking important. So they figured that bam and Jimmy will do everything else. And then all these guys have to do is basically get open and hit the shots. So yes, if I played on a team like that, I would be fantastic. But I could not survive in any other way against any good players. But the point is that Brian Flores is kind of trying to be this, right? Like, let me, let me tie it in to what our

discussion is going to be. Our discussion is going to be about realistic expectations for rookies. And on the defensive side, the rookies that they have, they kind of drafted players that they thought could fit into roles. And I think the reason Eric Spolstra and Pat Riley are so good is that they will find the one thing that somebody does well and they'll do it. And we actually heard that multiple times from Quasey and Kevin O'Connell, and I think that's what they're going to be trying to do on defense. No, it's actually pretty interesting because I have,

over these last couple weeks, gotten pretty fascinated by the Miami Heat. I mean, obviously, like I enjoy watching Jimmy Butler and and I just don't know a ton. I didn't know a ton about Eric Spolter. So because I'm crazy and insane, I'm reading profiles. And the more I read, the more like you hear how much the Heat value player development. And as I read about that, as I heard about it, I thought I thought a lot about the Vikings and player development. I mean, I covered baseball prior to this and player development was kind of like the magic bullet that made Cleveland so successful. Cleveland, there are some ties with Kweisi and Ofamitza. So I do I do think there is something very relevant to the idea that, like, hey, can we get guys with certain skills? Cody Zeller, he doesn't look – he's not going to impress you. He's wearing a face.

He looks, like, very uncoordinated. But he can play defense and he can rebound. And if we can find guys like that who fit specific skill sets, we can kind of surround them with stars like Justin Jefferson and guys like that who fit specific skill sets we can kind of surround them uh with with stars like justin jefferson and guys like that and so i i i've thought about it a lot i'm i'm kind of it's fun that you made the comparison and i do think like brian flores you think about culture like people i've talked to and and you think about heat culture and how people talk about um their heart and their guys they push their i mean i i do think brian flores brings that type of mindset um and type of kind of vibe around him so i i i as much as um we could

talk about a lot of things ahead of this year i think talking about the rookies and their development and and especially on the defensive side it's it's important it's relevant and it's relevant, and it's a cool little link there. Well, so the difference, of course, is if you have Jimmy Butler, he makes everyone better. And that is not something that you could say really on defense about anyone. It's always weak-linked systems on defense. Now offense, a great quarterback, Mahomes can make Juju Smith-Schuster look great or whoever else that he wants uh but on defense it doesn't really work that way

maybe the best you could do is a great defensive coordinator can make players look better than they are so in a way Brian Flores has to be the Jimmy Butler of this equation uh as much as the Eric Spolstra because when we look at at the guys they have out there, there's so much unproven, but there's also so much where you could kind of see what they were thinking. And I mean, I wanted to talk about the rookie specifically, but why don't we just talk even more broadly about people that we don't know what they can actually do? What about Louis seen for this? Because because i think last year the role that lewis seen was asked to try to figure out in training camp was not really a great fit for him he to me in georgia was a downhill attacking type of player and they were asking him to play too deep read a bunch of route

combinations be in the right spots and you could see in camp and i know this is going to be your first camp but last year you could see in camp just how late those reactions were because it was not coming natural to him now that doesn't mean he will never have to figure that out you have to play too deep if you're going to be a safety but there are examples like him i think it starts with him and brian floris where you could see there's there should be a plan there for this coordinator to mix well with this guy's skill set no and i think I think Louis C, I think you bringing that up is great because we talked to him a month ago, and we asked him about Brian Flores and this scheme, and Louis C was like, I get to play fast, I get to react quickly, I get to kind of go hit people and make plays.

And you could tell the way he said that, that he knows that's his skill set, and that's what he brings to the table. And like you said, like that was that's evident on the Georgia tape. I've gone back, gone back and watched it. And he didn't have to kind of I mean, Georgia defense is complicated, but he didn't have to filter through if then guys motioning what route company. I mean, it gets complicated on the back end. And so I think, yeah, I mean, mentioning Brian Flores as the guy who's orchestrating it, Flores knowing what, how Lewis seen wants to play.

I think, I think that could be a real benefit to Lewis and his play. But I, it's interesting because there are also ifs with Lewis seen and with all these guys. And I said this pretty recently, but when I covered baseball in the Kansas City Royals, they were never supposed to be pretty good. And I know people don't really care about the Royals, so I'll make this very brief.

But it was like very often people would say, well, if this happens, then we could be kind of good. If this player performed, and you stacked it up to like eight ifs, and the reality is this is sports, and you're playing against the best, and all those ifs are not going to come to fruition if even half of them are so I think with this Vikings defense I think about it very similarly of like Harrison Smith if he can make the impact that he has in the past Louis seen can he can Andrew Booth stay healthy can a Caleb Evans stay healthy is the pass rush going to be I mean there you start going through each level

of this defense and the ifs exist. And with the rookies specifically, all of them have a question mark. And so, yeah, it's going to be on the coaching staff to maximize it, maximize their skills, but also minimize the things that would put them in places they probably shouldn't be in. Yeah, this was an exercise for Sam Ekstrom a couple years ago on the show where it was like, what's 50% times 50% times 50% times 50%? And I forget what the answer is, but it's pretty darn low. And so the mathematicians are tearing their hair out right

now that I can't figure that out on the fly. But the point just being that when you have a bunch of coin flips and you need them all to come up heads, your odds aren't that good. Now, last year, they kind of did until they didn't, which was the second half of the year. And then it's losing a Green Bay. It's losing against New York. It's like, oh, yeah, the coin stops going heads and you lose out pretty quickly in the playoffs. But sticking with the Lewis scene thing, it's hard to call him a coin flip exactly because he is a first round caliber player. So you immediately are weighing the odds in his favor when someone is a first round talent. And we know the type of athletic gifts and we're assuming that he's bouncing back from this injury, which is a little bit of a leap there. But based on where he is right now, I think that's fair to do.

So what is a realistic expectation? And it's hard for a safety because we can't just be like, well, four interceptions and 73 and a half tackles. Like, I don't know. But what do we call a realistic expectation for Louis seen for this year? It's a great question, and it's not something I've thought a ton about, but I, I mean, I think a considerable him playing a considerable chunk of defensive

snaps and looking like he is flying around and that like he is in a position of that fits him. That suits his skillset. As long as that happens, maybe that's a boring answer, but I, I just really don't want to minimize the inner the the injury that he went through I mean it was brutal and I know the rehab has kind

of been it's been a process and so I think just for him to I mean last year he barely played any defensive stats for him to play defensive snaps and for him to to to stick his nose in the run game and also be able to run with guys down the field in coverage, I think as long as he's doing that, I think you can chalk it up as a success. I mean, it's interesting because he's a guy who, I mean, they have so many guys like this, but the Josh Metellus types and the, I mean, Jay Ward, who they drafted, there are a lot of guys who are kind of tweeners in some capacity. So where they play him and how they utilize him, I think finding a way to do that and him thriving

in that spot, I think as long as there's some kind of consistency in terms of his play and just production, I think you could chalk it up as a positive. I'm curious though, what, how you would assess, like what you would think of as a positive from a performance standpoint. I think it's in intervals for him. So it's like win the job out of training camp and be back to 100% by that time. Then I don't have that high of expectations for the first six weeks because that's going to be incredibly difficult coming back for the injury. And so I would expect that there's a lot of, you know,

ups and downs there, but the ups are the other part of the interval. So it's like, be the starter on day one, if assuming he's a hundred percent, or as soon as he's able to be healthy, because if he practices all the way through training camp and it's cam Bynum again,

that to me is not where we expect him to be. Assuming that the health is fine. Then I think it's flashes. It's just entirely about flashes this year. If we were expecting him in the first six weeks to just get it and be Derwin James or Harrison Smith and just dominate all over the field, that's a lot to ask for somebody who's played only a couple of snaps on defense so far in his career but should i see a sack should i see him blow up a screen should i see him track somebody down deep that that no other safety is going to be able to that's why you drafted him is to have some special skills and i want to see those even if the expectation of consistency would

probably be too high for the first half of the year. And then there's the interval of the second half of the year where it should feel like in the second half of the year, this guy's a starter. He's a veteran. He's been around because we've seen that from a number of other players where at first it's a little dodgy and then it clicks in. Christian Derrissaw is like that where a little bit up and down a little shaky and then once it clicked in oh my gosh this guy's a star and I still think that despite missing out on you know the starting job last year and the injury when you trade back that far and target that guy as your first round pick it's not crazy at that position being one of the first players

taken to say that you still have like above average starter to star as the expectation. I don't want to change that based on what we know, because what we know has been so, so small of a sample and so early. Yeah. You know what I think is funny is we kind of came into this conversation, wanted to talk about this year's rookies. And the reality is we've kind of shifted to talking about the lewis scene type of player and i think rightfully because for the vikings to be good this year and into the future they're going to need the lewis scene to to meet this level of expectation that still exists they're going to need andrew boot to not only stay healthy but also be able to cover a guy on the outside i mean for this team i mean they're going to need Ed Ingram to be,

if it's at all possible, just a little bit more reliable. And that's an understatement this upcoming year. So I guess my point there is, like, we want to talk about this year's rookie class, and we should and we have to. But this last year's class is so important to what this team and this regime is trying to do that you have to spend time on it. So I'm glad we are really.

Well, let's talk more about those guys then. I mean, Caleb Evans and Andrew Booth. So we were talking about using players to their exact skill sets. And I think with those guys, playing man-to- man is really why they drafted him. And it just, one thing that we've really let Kevin O'Connell off the hook for and Kweisi Adafo-Mensa is the hire of Ed Donatel. And, you know, when you go back and you look at the

experience there and the type of defense versus the type of players they had, it was not a fit. It seemed like they hired a guy because he was Fangio related sort of like the old McVay thing like does he know McVay then he gets a job does he know Fangio uh even Brandon Staley and uh your colleague Daniel Popper is going to be on the show later in the week it's like Brandon Staley has not had a great defense yet but he's he's Fangio related I mean as being with the Chargers he He did with the Rams. But the point was that they did not fit. Like, Seam didn't fit with this.

Booth and Evans didn't fit with this. These are man corners. Harrison Smith clearly didn't. Eric Hendricks clearly didn't. There's a lot of guys that did not work with the way that he wanted to play. And so I think with these guys, of course, health is a thing. There's no way for us to predict that. But the realistic expectation is that these two dudes can cover other dudes man to man. And if

they do that, they will be pretty darn good. Right. And the funny thing is like, we're not asking a lot. I mean, these guys, you traded up to grab a Caleb Evans and you took Andrew Booth high in the draft. And so like to ask them to cover somebody, I'm not asking them to stick with Devante Adams throughout the course of an entire game. But I mean, like last year, Andrew Booth matched up against Stephon Diggs and it was very ugly in Buffalo. But and obviously that's an elite caliber receiver. But to kind of go back to your point, the the the Ed Donatel hiring and the fit with those guys to your exact point, like I'm going back and read draft reports and it's like, yeah, Andrew Booth could thrive and man cover it. And it's like,

but you were playing cover six and cover four. And yes, these guys play man kind of, it's kind of a zone. It was a zone match scheme. So like kind of routes were dispersed and then the guys would pick them up, but they couldn't just play fast, play man, do the things that they're probably most successful at. So it was really, it remains kind of a very interesting thing that it played out the way it did. But I do think Andrew Booth and Caleb Evans, to your point, I think Caleb's got probably

more length than Andrew Booth. And he really, I thought of Caleb Flash last year. There were multiple times, multiple games where it was like, man, this guy's kind of got something. Andrew Brute, not as much. But for both those guys to contribute, I mean, this cornerback room, this in OTAs and camp, I mean, it's going to be, I think, the talker of which guys are elevating themselves.

Like, for these guys, the opportunity exists. Like, go take it and and who is going to? I think that's going to be interesting to watch, and it's going to be interesting to see, of those who take it, why? Like, why does Brian Flores kind of side with one over another? I'm really interested to kind of watch that play out. Folks, I'm super excited to announce a new sponsor to the show that just made us a whole lot cooler.

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football IQ than maybe Cam Dantzler had. But when Cam Dantzler was one-on-one with somebody, he could track them. If you asked him to read combinations and communicate and all those things, that was not really going to work for him. And they got toasted because of that. So with both corners, though, it really comes down to can they stay healthy. And there are a lot of times where I'm extremely hesitant to call anyone injury prone or say, well, you know, they're going to get hurt

because there have been lots of guys who have injuries early in their career or in college who do get banged up. Uh, and then they're fine. Like it's just bad luck. Someone fell on them with these two guys though. And this is where the door opens to talk about the rookies as well in a Jay Ward and Mackay Blackman, because with these two guys, three concussions, I guess a Caleb debates whether it was three or two. Fair enough. You're in a concussion protocol three times. And with Andrew Booth Jr., he was never healthy in college,

comes out, he's injured five different times during the season from either preseason to in the season to then surgery out for the year. I think that the door is actually wide open for Makai Blackman and Jay Ward, two players who are touted for their football IQ and their ability to track players one-on-one. I think this is more like four rookies battling it out as opposed to two guys with experience and two guys who are just recently drafted. I completely agree with you, and I don't know this for a fact,

but Makai Blackman's probably as old, if not older than a Caleb and Andrew Booth. I mean, he played, I believe five years in college. He played for like three different defensive back coaches at Colorado and then USC. I mean, he is an experienced corner and, and I completely agree. I mean, I think that's why I said it, this cornerback room in general, I think it's just like every man for themselves. Go take it like the jobs are open. It's up to you. And and they're different, too. Like Makai Blackman, it does not have the size of an Akail Evans.

And he does not have a probably the sheer athleticism of the Andrew Booth. But he is he does seem really competitive. You talk to people in his background and they talk about just like this guy's not backing down from anybody. And so that's probably nice to add to the room. Jay Ward is really like wholeheartedly different in that he's just so versatile, can do so many things. And I've talked to people at LSU who do a lot of processing type things. Like that guy was great in the locker room. That guy can really, he has great vision on the field and so I mean yeah if we're sitting in camp or late in camp or as the seat and it's like we're rolling with Makai Blackman Jay Ward I'm I'm not surprised at all it's not it doesn't say great things about the fact you spent the capital you did on on Andrew Booth and Caleb Evans but I think I think

these guys are that capable to where I feel comfortable saying that. How did you feel about the Makai Blackman consensus controversy? I don't know if it's really a controversy, but it was a discussion about that because my take was I don't really care. I don't really care about the consensus board in the back end of the third round that they clearly wanted him. And even when you watch and I know it's edited, but when you watch the inside the room, they nervously waited to get Makai Blackman. They thought other people were going to take him. And they clearly like a lot about his game.

And also, when you look at his performance, I understand he's older. When you look at his performance, it's nothing short of fantastic at USC. So let's not overlook that playing the football is the most important part, and he did it really, really well. So clearly they wanted this guy, and if that's the case, they've got a lot of people doing the evaluation. I think it's more likely that the outside evaluators overlooked what was good about him than it is that the Vikings lost their mind and picked somebody who was horrible or something. I mean, because he's a really great football player in college. Yeah, I completely agree. I talked to the DB coach at USC actually. And he's like, yeah, we played him in man. He was great in man, but like, here's he like, he's like, he could play

zone really, really well. And people just didn't see it. And I think the coach cited his PFF grades both in man and zone. I mean, Makai Blackman, it's funny that you said, like, he was kind of overlooked on draft board. This is a guy who's been overlooked his whole life. He went the JUCO route because he didn't have enough – he didn't have any offers. And the high school coach who coached him was, like, prodding coaches, college coaches, be like, this guy can play football.

Like, I don't know about the measurables and all that, but this guy can track the ball. He's competitive as hell, and he was overlooked. He went to Colorado. He made it happen there. He went to USC, made it happen there. This is a guy who the Vikings brought in for a visit. Brian Flores obviously has been around a lot of high-level quarters, Avian Howard, you name it, guys in New England. And, I mean, I don't think they make the pick if they don't feel really confident that maybe he's not the fastest or the biggest, but he may be competitive

and intelligent enough to swim in the National Football League. So, yeah, I don't put much – and we've talked about this a lot off air, but, like, I just don't – I don't know. There's so much as evaluators we don't put much and we've talked about this a lot off air but like I don't I just don't I don't know there's so much as evaluators we don't know and even I say that but I also know that sometimes too much information can sway you wrongly too so it's it's really kind of a dice roll in my head and and I think if they if they felt enough about uh a guy's characteristics and qualities then we'll see what happens I just think that when it comes to a late third round pick, the Vikings would be doing due diligence out to Wazoo

if they wanted to draft him. Whereas a draft analyst is going to look at some tape, look at his relative athletic score and make an assessment there. And that is what it is. Like once we're not talking about the top 50 picks who get all the attention, all the articles written about them. There's so much more information that you can gather. So many more people that you're going to be talking to them about that.

I think there's a much higher degree of accuracy of the wisdom of crowds when the crowd actually has all the information or a lot of it at the top as opposed to the middle. So that's kind of part of my assessment. But the more I watch the guy, the more I like what I see because he does the thing where he runs routes for the receiver, where he is, where the ball is going to be before they get there. And when we talk about realistic expectations, is it realistic to think he could be the starting nickel on day one? Yeah, I think, I think it's realistic. I really do. And I agree with you. I mean, I've thought a lot about the draft evaluators and analysis. And I mean, first, tape is hard to find. So those who do it and spend the time watching tape, that's time spent and that is analysis spent. And so I appreciate it. The relative athletic score. I mean, that stuff has proven to matter in a lot of capacity. But I'm also sometimes I think and I think this is maybe just me and my personal opinion, but I sometimes think we overrate some of the athleticism. It's like, can the guy produce on the field when it's when he has to?

Like, I don't know what he runs in a straight line, but I do know like he was competitive as hell for the ball running matching routes. And so I think that stuff matters. But I do think, yeah, I think it's possible. I mean, Byron Murphy Jr. has received great reviews from Kevin O'Connell kind of since he's walked in the door here. And I do think Byron Murphy's skill set will allow the Vikings to get creative. And again, this is where I think Brian Flores will look at a Makai Blackman skill set. And if it's like this guy could play in the nickel for us right now, then we can utilize him there. And that makes sense. I think they'll do that. So I think that's kind of the benefit of if you have a coaching staff that's willing to assess a guy's skill set and apply it immediately, then yeah, I think it works. And I just think, again, Makai Blackman's experience,

yes, he was drafted this year while others were drafted the year before. I just don't think this team, I think right now they're going to try to win this year. And that's going to mean if this guy helps us right now, then he's our starter. Then that's just how it goes. It's also worth mentioning that Makai Blackman's relative athletic score was in the 74th percentile so not like 24th if they drafted a guy who could not run then okay I understand where there would be some concerns but his 10 yard split was like 99th percentile and that's a quickness stat so that's a it is a quickness it is an aggressiveness position I think it's fair i usually try with a third round pick especially almost a fourth round pick to really limit my expectations everybody gets super excited on

draft day and that's great we all love draft day we all love doing what we're doing which is writing profiles on we'll get to yours on dwayne mcbride writing articles on these guys doing research calling their college coaches um i was doing that over the weekend as well. So we're all doing the same thing and hyping these guys up, and that's fair. But I try to temper expectations. But when you draft someone who's 24 and you have so much open in that secondary, I think it is fair to want him to have a chance to be on the field or at least make that competition so he's in a rotational role because this is not a guy where you're talking

about massive upside. You're not saying, Oh, well, you know, he's going to need two years because he's got whatever he needs to develop. It's really, you drafted this guy to help you right away. So we should expect that where he fits in with Byron Murphy is interesting because Kevin O'Connell said the other day that he was playing nickel and then like outside in base and so if he's like set for the nickel then I think that the way that they're beginning this whole thing is with the outside guys being Evans and Booth the inside guy being Murphy on the nickel and then Makai Blackman will have to work his way in um I think for the other draft picks and aside from Dwayne McBride,

who I want to talk about next, I think it's fair to say special teams, Jay Ward, Jaron Hall, like make the team, I guess. Although now they just changed the rule today to have that third quarterback available and not take up a roster spot.

So sanity prevailed there with the NFL rules makers, but Jaron Hall's not going to play unless there's been a tragedy. And then Jaqueline Roy, another guy who's like unlikely to get on the field much, but Dwayne McBride, who you wrote about is really fascinating. You wrote about his highlight reels, which are insane to watch just absolutely wild,

just trucking people over like crazy. And is it realistic to think that he can battle for maybe not the starting job but a lot of carries in year one I I don't know like I I think there's a chance and I it's funny you said temporary expectations because I had a conversation with my dad the other day and he's like man that Jaron Hall guy and I'm like well like he is a fifth round pick like in my day and my dad's like you wrote the fifth round pick like and i'm like yeah i know so i i deal with that sometimes and i think i just i love i love the storytelling aspect of it to where you can kind of go go crazy i mean i think duane mcbride if you're thinking about where does he

get care i mean i think early downs that's that's his that's that's where he could make an impact this guy has not done a lot of pass catching that's not to say he won't be able to do it he's also had a little bit of fumbling issues and and doesn't have a ton of experience um with like nfl verbiage and language and learning the the play call so i think that's really why i say i'm not totally sure because i think there's going to be a pretty steep learning curve for him in terms of you got to know x jet right blah blah blah whereas at UAB apparently he was told like okay you're lining up here and you're doing like it was pretty forward and straightforward and and that's not to say he can't learn it I just think the I mean Kurt talked last year about the undertaking of learning the language and and applying it. So I'm not totally sure how much he could contribute. I think the Vikings staff, from what I know, really wants to infuse Alexander Madison to get the ball to him more.

And so I think he probably commands most of the opportunities in the event that Dalvin Cook's not here. And then I also think they like Ty Chandler so it's possible I think later in the year that would be like you talked about phases intervals for Lewis scene I think Dwayne McBride that's probably how I would look at it is like by phase three of the year is he is he receiving some early down carries and I think if he does to your point like the higher light reel and the stuff you hear about them, like the UAB coach said to me, he's like, we used to sit in the room midweek and I would and it would just go quiet. And he said, I would just say, you know, Debo, when when you don't want them to tackle you, they don't tackle you. And he just said, like, the whole room would be like nodding like they knew.

I mean, it was it. I mean, he's it was kind of like a you watch the tape it's kind of a crazy uh he's got a crazy ability but we'll see but again it is at UAB and there is a huge a huge huge jump as and also you know the tackling ability is a little bit better in the NFL massively wildly insanely better than it is for the people he was playing against so there is that element of it and he is a little bit better in the NFL, massively, wildly, insanely better than it is for the people he was playing against. So there is that element of it. And he is a seventh round pick. It's just that with a running back, I feel like saying a seventh round pick is so much different than almost every other position. Like if this guy can run the ball, he can run the ball.

And if there's one position where you don't have to mask detail perfectly, it's the running back position. Once upon a time, when you were not on this earth, Christian Okoye was a running back for the Kansas City Chiefs. Maybe you ran across him when you were in Kansas City. But if you did not, go back and watch his Football Life documentary. He was a track and field guy and ended up starting playing football when he was in college like his third or fourth year of college why not played several years in the nfl as a star running back so check that story out so i i know the nfl has changed a lot but the point

is just that sometimes with this it's just run left or run right and if you're not being asked to pass block or go out and pass routes and stuff i think there is a role for him but i more likely than not it's madison ty chandler that's your duo yeah and then maybe we get a little of mcbride but if someone gets hurt then we could see all right now he's going to be stepping into that role and i wouldn't be shocked if he impresses in that role no I think you're exactly right and I also I mean you mentioned like some of the competition I went back actually because I'm ridiculous and watched the UAB Georgia tape from 2021 and it was funny like Jalen Carter was just blowing up the UAB offensive line it was kind of but there was there was one play where

Jalen grabs Dwayne and in the backfield and Dwayne slips off and, and, and, I mean, does what he does. And I think it speaks to like the yards after contact to this guy, which is a great stat. And I think it's one that the team uses is a, I mean, he was incredible in this stat, the best running back, I believe in the draft in terms of yards after contact. So I do believe to your point, like he can run the football. Like I don't think there's any doubt natural born runner, like just can do some special things.

I just, I think the learning curve of the NFL will be what it is and we'll see how it goes. And I agree with your assessment of Madison Ty Chandler is kind of what I would peg it right now for sure. So we went through some of these guys and did not talk about Jordan Addison, who we're going to see actually run routes against someone in OTAs tomorrow. Presumably, Kevin O'Connell takes this thing so slow, and I respect it, but also it's a lot harder to figure out, like, what are our takeaways from

rookie minicamp? Well, man, those guys, they're, they're big. Some of them, other ones,

not as much. I don't know. Like it was hard because they were just doing individuals. I don't know how much OTAs we're really going to see of like 11 on 11s, line them up and run, but we will see Jordan Addison against somebody for the first time. What is a realistic stat line for Jordan Addison? That's a great question. I mean, I think a lot about like what the Vikings lost in Adam Thielen last year and what did he end up

having? 70 catches for 900 yards or something. Maybe I'm way overdoing that. Maybe 600 yards, 700 yards. But I mean, I do think Jordan Addison will receive a lot of targets. Maybe I'm way overdoing that. Maybe 600 yards, 700 yards. But I mean, I do think Jordan Addison will receive a lot of targets. And I think 60 catches, well, yeah, maybe that's bold, but I really think he's capable of amassing that. I don't know where that puts me from a yards perspective, 600, 700, but I think he's going to have a really big impact. I think KJ Osborne, I expect him to have a good year. But I think Jordan Addison's ability to separate when this team goes three wide receivers in the passing game and 11 personnel. I think if defenses are trying Justin Jefferson the way they did last year and applying a lot of coverage, I think Jordan Addison is going to have a lot of opportunities.

And reality is, I think he'll separate better than Adam Thielen did. So I expect him to produce early. And I mean, from the get-go, I really do. His youthful legs, I think will be a little quicker than Adam Thielen's were last year. No disrespect to aging and slowing down people like me. What was Thielen's line last year? I got to look that up. I know it was like 70 catches, and I think it was 700-something yards, about 10 yards a catch. 70 catches, 716 yards, six touchdowns. Like, I mean, reality is, I know it's asking a lot,

but it's a first-round pick. I mean, I expect that line to – I expect Jordan Addison to do something similar to that. And I think also in this offense we talk about because we all play Madden and fantasy wide receiver one wide receiver two wide receiver three but I think that if we were really shuffling that wide receiver two and three are interchangeable and then there's TJ Hawkinson that mixed it mixes into this as well. So if we're talking about 110 catches for 1700 yards or something for Jefferson, well, that's a lot of passing yards right away, right? So everybody else has kind

of got to feed off the rest. I think, uh, Hawkinson it's realistic to think like 80, 75 for 700. And then you're splitting up, like they're going to probably throw for 4,500 yards. then you're splitting up like they're gonna probably throw for 4500 yards so you're splitting up the rest between the other guys now this is a lot to ask for like health everyone's got to stay healthy like they did last year um i think as of this moment we're looking at kj osborne though being ahead of jordan addison as of this exact moment and that is very much subject to change at any time it's just that when a guy gets drafted in the first round we immediately assume he's going to be better than anybody that they have other than Jefferson and KJ Osborne's got a year in the offense it is a complicated

offense for receivers and he is a trusted option of Kirk Cousins over several years Cousins has just gushed over Osborne for a long time. So I think that as of, as of today, which is again, subject to change at any point, I would end up having Jefferson, Hawkinson, Osborne, and then Addison at maybe like 50 catches for 590 yards or something. I think that's really fair. And I mean, I'm kind of thinking about this on the fly, but I, I, I, in some way, like it's so easy. And everyone as a fan, you think of it as like wide receiver one, wide receiver two, wide receiver three.

The way I kind of think about this offense, just listening to how the guys talk about it, Kevin O'Connell and the players, it's like, who is primary target one? Who is secondary target? And I think the secondary targets change depending on how the defense is is guard like I think there were times last year where Adam Thielen was the primary second the the main secondary target where where T.J. Hawkinson was that and I think there were times where K.J. Osborne was that and I also think the reality is K.J. and Jordan Addison will

be doing different things in some way. I think KJ Osborne has really kind of taken what Cooper Cupp did for the Rams in terms of the blocking and the run scheme. And I think KJ occupies that role. And I think in some way, like he's gotten pass catching options, he's gotten chances, and I think he'll get more this year. But I think that that like secondary receiving, like I think I think Jordan Addison will probably be that after TJ Hockett. So in some ways, maybe we we disagree there. I just think they do different things to where it's I'm not saying one's over another. Really, I think they all will have an impact on the game, depending on the opponent and how Kevin O'Connell wants to attack them. Yeah and KJ Osborne said that too that some games you're going to be the secondary guy and other games you're not and he had to understand that throughout the year because

I asked him specifically like what what happened in the second half of the year and in his mind it wasn't a lot different it was just that he got kind of more of those targets yeah i don't know if it's so much as disagree as in like where you're aiming is more of the to me 80th 90th percentile outcome for him and i'm sort of shooting right down the middle i think 50 catches for 600 yards is right down the middle and i think if you told vikings fans that they'd be like oh it's a little disappointing for but maybe not when you consider that osborne has more experience and also i know for a fact that part of this was osborne is going to leave in free agency more likely than not after this year unless uh you know i don't know unless he

signs a very cheap contract to stay which we have seen guys do but i mean more likely than not he's going to leave in free agency so it wouldn't surprise me if they did lean on him. And then Addison came along a little bit slower and we saw him emerge in the second half of the year or something like that. But I just think about we just assume the guy's going to master the offense. And we know it's not about can you run and catch or if Smith could run and catch, but he could never really master what they were asking to do. So, like, can you master it? How quick can you master it? And I think based on everything I've heard from him, that he is a film junkie.

Like he wants to get all the details, but Lewis scene was the same way. And it doesn't mean that they're going to apply it right away. That's not saying Addison will be a bust. It's just what I'm a little more hesitant on rookies to say, Oh yeah, right away. He's Kevin catching 70 pass. Yeah, yeah, right away he's catching 70 pass.

Yeah. No, I think that's really fair. And I also want to say this about K.J. Osborne. Like, in some ways, I wrote this last year, but, like, his self-assist with the offense, like, this is a guy who has worked his butt off to get in the position he is and wasn't even the secondary target a lot of times last year and did block and did a lot of times last year and did block and did a lot of the dirty work.

And like, it's not as much of a sexy talk in terms of stat line, but I think KJ in terms of like, where's the leadership going to come from on this offense and within that locker room with guys like Patrick Peterson gone and, and Dalvin, like I do expect KJ to have a pretty strong voice this year, regardless of what the stat line looks like, because I think he is really respected in there.

And I think he kind of embodies some of the developmental stuff that this team wants to accomplish. So I know that's kind of changing the conversation. But I think you're very – I mean, the transition is a lot. And you could tell even in minicamp that day, like we didn't see much. Let me break it to you. We did not see much. But you did see Keenan McCardell and Jordan Addison really working with like, okay, your route could snap off here probably depending on the cover.

There's a lot of intricacies with this offense for those guys, like you said. And so probably to say 70 catches, 700 yards is probably a little bold of me. But I think if things go the way I think the team wants them to, I think that's how it could look. So it'd be fun to watch. I mean, I do hope we get to see him against defenders this week. And I would like to just look at his fluidity against guys and not just the grass for sure. Who do you think, and we're recording this the day before we go out there, so I'll have answers for everybody after this but who's showing up like if let me put it this way i don't expect

daniel hunter to be there because he doesn't have a contract and he's not traded yet uh what about jefferson if jefferson is not at otas you a little nervous um no i kind of expect him to be there. Maybe I'm wrong to expect that. But no, I'm not nervous just because I think this team and everybody within the organization has made it pretty clear they're going to do everything they can to keep this guy. Now, if Justin looks at the long-term vision and looks at the quarterback situation and thinks it may not behoove him, then who knows?

But I'm not there yet. I'm really not. If he's not there, I'm raising an eyebrow. Okay. Just like that, if you're watching on YouTube. That's what I'm doing. That's all I'm doing. I'm saying, huh?

Why isn't he there? That's the emoji. You just did the emoji. it's pretty good me and the rock the only two people who can do that but um i yeah i'm gonna be that emoji if uh if he's not there because he really has no leverage at this point to hold out or whatever uh to try to force a trade i mean they have a fifth year option, a franchise tag. Like you can really, I added all the stuff up

and was trying to figure out like when could he really force his way out if he took this all the way to the end? It's 2026, I believe. So, I mean, that's really, you're really not in a position as a first round draft pick to fight it all the way to the end

if they want to extend you. Usually what guys do is sign the extension and then fight their way out a little later when they have that contract. But he doesn't have a lot of leverage to do that. I think it would be more of a sign of something is a little amiss because he's been at every OTA before.

There is no reason to not be here. And unless he puts out a tweet that says, sorry guys, I'm, I don't know, on a fishing trip with Randy Moss. Like unless there's something that's going on, yeah, he should be there and I would expect him to be there. There was one year where Stefan Diggs was not there

and he sort of mumbled some random excuse to us when we talked to him, but it was clear what it was about, that there was something a little bit off and even though it is voluntary, almost everybody shows up for this thing um most of the time so that will be interesting i don't expect to see delvin cook or daniel hunter but we know what's going on there i think because justin jefferson is not public with

how he feels about an extension which i still by the way expect him to eventually sign um but since he has not been public with it we're kind of like got our, you know, glasses on kind of looking like, you know, is there anything going on? Is there any signs of how he feels about this or how close this might be? Yeah, no, I mean, it was interesting because we talked to him on locker room clean out day and people asked about it. And he was he just really didn't want to have the conversation, I think, mostly because he was just very pissed the way the game played out the way it did. and he was he he just really didn't want to have the conversation i think mostly because he was just very pissed the way the game played out the way it did but he was also just like it's just part of the conversation comes with like succeeding i just don't um i just don't see

him as a guy who where it's it's i mean i think he his his camp they're pretty well versed in things and i i just i expect uh things to go pretty smoothly I expect the Vikings to to pony up whatever it's going to take I think that's why they've I mean they've been pretty clear in terms of like we want flexibility for the future and I think it's because they know this is coming they know that Christian Derrissaw thing's going to come at some point um TJ Hawkinson potentially so I don't I'm not, I'm not raising an eyebrow. If he's not there, it'll be interesting. It'll be, I mean, to hear him talk the way he did, but I just, I think there it's,

the group is a little too tight knit for me to think that anything crazy would, would be a miss. Can you do it? Can you raise the eyebrow? Okay. Yeah. I have to kind of squint. Yeah, you can do it well yeah all right you got it you got it not great it doesn't feel it's gonna be reps you look like yeah you look pretty fluid and smooth i mean it would look like you were in third year ota form um kind of ezra cleveland-ish in my opinion well yeah no my eyebrows need to take a step forward still that is what you're

saying but uh i i have a problem with making faces at things like i can't hide my reactions to stuff so if there was a uh camera on me during press conferences i'd be going huh what like i'd be making all sorts of faces i know that I do unintentionally because during the Stefan Diggs famous Truth to All Rumors press conference, one of the cameras was shooting past Tim and had me in the background making faces. And for a while, that was my Twitter picture. So I do have that tendency. I think I'm pretty good in the press conference face-wise, face-wise. But in terms of getting my question in, I'm the worst of the worst. I am, I am everybody in that press conference room, worst of the worst.

And it is not my, of all the things about this job that I do enjoy the press, excuse me, it's not my favorite. It really isn't. Timing that out is a problem. There's just so many people in there and trying to figure out like, when is there enough of a pause? Cause you don't want to stumble over somebody, but I try to assess the room and look who's like leaning in. Like they got something to say. So like, Oh, maybe they're going to go next. Like it's, it's an art form. The people don't understand how much we go through. No, right. It is. Yeah. It's taxing mentally, physically. No, you're right. Like everybody has their thing that they're doing when they're about to ask the question. Like I know like, you know, that the meme where the guy leans forward in the chair, like playing the video game, like see for when he's ready, he'll leave.

Like you can kind of tell I'm observant in that way and probably just worrying way too much about that than asking the question. But, yeah, this is what the people really come here for is to hear about the press conference etiquette. I know that that is a big driver of readership and, and viewers these days. Well, and outside is its own barrel of problems itself. You got planes coming over,

you have an AC unit that was right next to the thing. You can't, you know, you can't, if you're not a loud talker if you're not a yeller i mean then you get the like can you repeat that again what was that and then they give the answer they could say yeah we're trading jefferson we'd be like what what i'm gonna have to go back and listen to that i didn't hear what he said there's also like these these

fold-up chairs where you're like am i at a wedding wedding? Do I sit in those chairs? Is it too far from the podium? Do I stand up? These decisions really are just the drivers of life in this day and age for me. There's just some things that journalism school can't prepare you for in the real world. Exactly. They don't tell you these things. Yeah, No. Anyway, I implore everyone to go read your article on Dwayne McBride. Great stuff on his background and sort of the lore that surrounds Dwayne McBride as he arrives here. So that is, you can find it on your Twitter. What are you?

Alec Lewis on Twitter. Alec underscore Lewis. I don't know why the underscore, but someone else has Alec Lewis. It doesn't drive me that crazy. So you're probably not the only one around. So yeah. Anyway, well, you could find it there.

When I go to the Twitter link, it then opens and then says, no, I actually have to open the app. So then I have to open the app and then I have to go chase down. So this is how much I care because I could have stopped at like step two or three. So maybe just go to theathletic.com and find it and see that's why the twitter tease has to be so good because you're you're urged yeah I know you love uh the twitter tease but no that's uh I appreciate you saying that about the story it was a it's a fun like I said um I love like storytelling I'm a huge nerd about it and thinking about why things are the way they are. So this

time and these kinds of profiles allows me to kind of mess around and toy around and try to improve. So that's what I'm doing as I'm also trying to give Vikings fans something to do. Yeah, for sure. The pressure off in May where I can play basketball for half of the day and then write the article later. So anyway, great stuff. And I'll see you out there at OTAs. And thank you everybody for listening.