Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - The Athletic's Arif Hasan talks underrated CB and RB training camp storylines

Episode Date: July 21, 2021

Regular guest Arif Hasan of The Athletic is back to talk under-the-radar Vikings storylines. He weighs in on Dantzler vs. Breeland as starting CB, whether any of the corners on one-year deals have a future in Minnesota and what Kene Nwangwu can offer as a rookie. The two also touch on three big NFL headlines, including the report that Aaron Rodgers turned down a massive offer from the Packers. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sam in collar out on the purple insider podcast presented by soda stick and birdie golf. Welcome in to the show. Make sure to subscribe to the show. Leave a five star rating and review. Good to have you with us today on a Wednesday. And I couldn't do a show without my old right-hand man, Arif Hasan from the old, now defunct football machine, frequent guest on the Purple Insider podcast. Arif, happy summer to you. How are you holding up? I'm holding up pretty well, man. How about you? Hanging in there as well. We talked a little bit off air that my summer has basically been chasing around two kids and trying to find the little moments in between.

The two variables, right? The two variables, yeah, as they're better known. Yeah. You had your big Iceland trip last time. So I imagine that that's kind of been like the peak of the summer and a steady decline from there. Everything else has been a disappointment. You don't wake up with fjords on the horizon in northeast Minneapolis. Yeah, not recently. It's been a couple thousand years, I think so.

Well, it's good to have you on.'s uh writing for theathletic.com at arifasan nfl on twitter his handle where he tweets abundantly he tweets healthily there's a lot of tweets um and it's all good stuff so arif we're doing an underrated uh training camp storyline series today i thought we'd tackle one defensive position one offensive position uh on defense let's talk a little cornerbacks what do you think about that um it's hard to say yeah yeah i love some good cornerback talk it's hard to say what falls under the like properly rated storyline and underrated storyline because we kind of talk about cornerbacks a lot like it's a pretty important position and I think that a lot of the storylines that we could bring

up are already being talked about like you know is Patrick Peterson going to have a resurgence that's not underrated that's a huge storyline um maybe a little bit Mackenzie Alexander like how is he going to fare in the slot? Why don't we start there? Because everyone's talking about Peterson. Um, not as many people talking about Alexander. Like, is he, is he a shoe in to play as well as he did in 2019 and be a stalwart in the nickel? Why don't we, we begin with McKenzie who returns to the Vikings on that one year deal after

the year off in Cincinnati. What do you think about Alexander? I mean, I like him and I thought it was a pretty smart deal for the Vikings on that one-year deal after the year off in Cincinnati. What do you think about Alexander? I mean, I like him, and I thought it was a pretty smart deal for the Vikings to sign him, especially it's only a one-year deal. You don't have to worry about liability in the long term, which I'm sure we'll talk about in a bit. But, yeah, I mean, he didn't actually perform all that poorly, right, in Cincinnati. I mean, he was about an average-ish slot corner which has its own value

um and i think that there's a pretty decent chance that the viking signed him thinking he was going to be maybe the fourth corner like it didn't like when when he was signed my head went oh yeah he's going to be the starting nickel but kind of as the offseason progressed i was like they might have signed to be the fourth corner um you know grabbing bashad breland kind of as the offseason progressed, I was like, they might have signed him to be the fourth corner. You know, grabbing Bashad Breland kind of complicates that. And then, of course, the Jeff Gladney stuff happened this offseason. And that really kind of creates, unfortunately, it creates an opportunity for Mackenzie Alexander. So I don't really kind of know what his standing on the roster is.

I think he signed thinking he was going to get some pretty significant playing time but we could be in a situation where uh you know he's he's rotating kind of like Terrence Newman and Trey Waynes did you know a couple years ago um so uh or Terrence Newman and Mackenzie Alexander um so yeah it's it's uh I like I think that he's an average level nickel corner if he plays like 700 stamps for how many nickel corners play these days, that's probably a fine thing for the Vikings, especially when you compare them to last year. But I think the Vikings kind of expect more from the position, which is why, you know, they go after Patrick Peterson and Bashad Breland and why when you have Jeff Gladney on the roster,

you grab another nickel and all that. Now, they've already had to test the depth because of the Gladney thing, but I'm still not sure if he sees the field for for seven eight hundred snaps it might be three four hundred snaps interesting i i did like that they challenged gladney with a competitor before the gladney news came out because i thought that gladly gladney needed someone to sort of push him a little further and someone to back him up to be be quite honest. And we know that, you know, Mike Zimmer has alluded to this. He's kind of fed up with cornerbacks getting hurt and they wanted that depth. He wanted to have, I think all six cornerbacks that could play at a

high level. And, you know, he almost had that if Gladney was on this roster, they would have five solid and then one probably pretty decent backup, whether that's Chris Boyd or Harrison Hand we can get to that in a bit but I mean do you see anyone capable of playing the inside as well as we've seen Alexander do it because I think Breland has the capability but he's not the preferred inside option he has a better track record as a boundary corner. Yeah. Ederson is an outside corner. Dantzler is an outside corner. So, I mean, we'd be getting down into the, like, the Perry Nickersons and maybe Harrison Hand as other inside options. It feels to me like Alexander is probably not going to be unexpectedly unseated

as the starting nickel. Is that fair to say? It kind of depends, right? Because we didn't actually get to see where Breland was lining up in camp. Now, we know from talking to our friends covering the Kansas City beat and also just taking a look at the pro football focus data and all that, that Breland was better on the outside, that that's his preferred position, and that he's more of an outside guy.

But, I mean, you consider two things. One, the Vikings haven't really given us too much of an indication of what Breland is, unless I missed a presser, in which case, feel free to correct me. But two, Breland took a while to sign. Right. And because he wanted, you know, a capacity to start. And it might be the case that when he visited the Vikings and left. Right. Because he left the Vikings without a deal. It might be because, you know, they said, hey, we think you could be a rotational nickel guy. And he said, yeah, I'm not really feeling that. I think he can get a certain position elsewhere. When he didn't, he might have come back to the Vikings. So I don't actually know that the Vikings

don't think that he should be in the nickel or anything like that. I agree that it's probably a poor use of who he is and what he is. And the Vikings might be getting like stacked up on outside guys without that many inside guys. But I think that Breland is a genuine competitor for that slot role, especially in light of the Gladney news. So I think that that's, you know, one thing to consider, I guess the other one. Yeah. I mean, Mackenzie Alexander is the most experienced in the slot,

especially in a Vikings type system. So that's nice to have, especially for a notoriously difficult spot to learn in a Zimmer system. But I don't, I don't know that that it's going to be as easy for Alexander as just taking a look at all the corners saying, hey, those are all outside guys, which I agree with you, they should be. And saying, you know, he's only really competing with Harrison Hand, who, by the way, has had a pretty great minicamp and offseason so far. This is the Breland quote June 9 after he was signed with the Vikings this is his take on it

I feel like I can play every position in the secondary I'm and I'm adding on right now wow you can play safety that's amazing um but you got and then this is back to Breland but you got to be a master at one before you're a master at none and I feel like they brought me in to be an outside corner and that's what they want me to bring to this team bring my physicality and really allow myself to come in help these young guys etc etc so he thinks outside guy which makes sense like i mean look at the money you know there's there's good slot guys still sitting out there that are you know really good at their job and they're not going to make much of anything this year. And then you've got outside guys like Patrick Peterson that are

30 plus and in decline signing $8 million deals. That's you want to be the outside corner for sure. So I get it. I get why Breland would want to continue bolstering his value. Let me ask you this though, because we've touched on, you know, Alexander one-year deal, Breland one-year deal, Peterson one-year deal. Do any of them in your mind have a future with this team? Is this a situation where two of three or three of three walk if the salary cap increases and the demand is high? Yeah. So you said we have three one-year deals to get Peterson, Breland and Alexander, right? Correct. I think that honestly, I think that all three of them have that opportunity and it wouldn't shock me if like by the end of the year, you know, one or two of them ended up signing long-term deals. I doubt that all three will end up doing that because there's only so much opportunity available, but you know, if Peterson so we talk about peterson as if he's like old and washed up and and aged out and and and no longer

physically fit to play the style of cornerback that he once played which is all kind of true but also he's like adam theelin's age right like he's not like he's not like terrence newman who's like 37 and unexpectedly retired at 37 right it was like like to give a Holden Hill a spot on the roster, essentially. He's like, yeah, I'll be a coach, I guess. But yeah, he looked pretty good in camp, right? It's not like Terrence Newman, right? Where he's like 37, 38. He's like 31, 32 or something like that.

He might even be potentially even younger than Adam Thielen. I don't really remember kind of who has which birthday. But he might be kind of who has which birth date. But, you know, he might be kind of, quote unquote, washed up, but that might just be because he played a really physically demanding style of play. If the style of play demanded of him in the Viking system does not, you know, tax him too much, doesn't expose him as somebody who's got, you know, physical limitations or anything like that, if he can compete in the Vikings system,

I wouldn't be shocked if the Vikings were interested in a long-term deal for him. Now, I think it's more likely than not that if he has a good year, he's going to get better money elsewhere because the constraints put on the Vikings by the cap situation, which is actually not that bad. But I think that's an opportunity there. I think it's the exact same hope the Vikings fans have that Zimmer will turn Peterson around is the exact same hope Peterson has of securing kind of a final long-term deal. With Breland, we know that he's actually produced pretty well when he's been on the field

and he just hasn't had like that much opportunity over the years. I think, where has he been? He's been in Washington. He's been in Kansas today. I feel like he's been in one of them. Green Bay. Green Bay. Nickel guy in Green Bay didn't go well. Yeah didn't go well yeah um but you know he's looking for a long-term deal and if it's the case that camera dancer gets hurt or something like that or you know maybe he just straight up beats up camera dancer um it beats out camera dancer for an outside spot in camp which i doubt it's an opportunity um you know maybe he gets a long-term deal and and and peterson walks and dancers the other corner right um and then then for Alexander, I mean, I think you're right that there's not really a nickel corner. If,

if the Gladney stuff doesn't go the way Gladney wants it, the way the Vikings prefer it in a way that I think would resolve, you know, hopefully for everybody, assuming, you know, that nothing happened then they're going to need a nickel guy. Right. And if they need a nickel guy and Alexander performs actually at the level that he performed in his final two years in a Vikings uniform, that sounds like a long-term deal to me. I mean, it's kind of hard to find those nickel guys and they don't cost that much. So there's a really good case to be made that all three of

them have an opportunity for that. Now, again, I don't think that all three will end up with long-term deals because now you've got a ton of corners, right? And what do you do with Harrison Hand? It seems to be kind of interesting, right? You know, what do you do with Jeff Gladney if he comes back? What do you do with Cameron Dancer? You know, I don't know that that's going to happen, but I think that there's certainly an opportunity that somebody comes out of this with more than two years on their next contract. And we do have a new note on that Gladney trial or the grand jury hearing that's on July 29th. They backed it up one week.

It was going to be on Thursday. Now it's going to be a week from Thursday down in Texas, July 29th, and then results on August 2nd per the Star Tribune. We've actually got Brian Murphy on that story for Purple Insider as well. Matthew and I disagree on the Dantzler versus Breland, who's going to start debate.

I think it's Dantzler. I think he's the preferred option because he's the draft pick. You know, he's younger. The team wants to invest in him. I think he showed flashes when healthy of being a really good cornerback. Matthew thinks they brought in Breland to start. Where do you stand on that? Break the tie for us.

I think when you two disagree, I usually take collar side, but I'm with you on this one, Sam. Thank you. Well, I'm just impartial. That's what it is. But no, I think that you're right. I think that, you know, the way Dan Soren pressed the second half of the season really left a mark on the Vikings when he was healthy.

I think the fact that the Vikings have historically had to dig deep on the cornerback depth chart, sometimes very early in the season, has driven their investment at the position, including signing Breland. So I don't think that signing Breland is an indication that they want to change kind of who their starter is. I don't think that signing Breland is an indication that they want to change kind of who their starter is. I don't know that Breland has signed anywhere with the indication that he would be the starter.

I don't think he's ever signed a deal knowing that he would start right. It's like the reverse Sheldon Richardson. So like, I don't know that that really makes a lot of sense. And especially because again, he, he left the Vikings facility without signing a deal initially right again i'm not misremembering that um he and then there were indications either he said it or or it was leaked that he was looking for a starting spot and you know leaving the vikings kind of an indication that he was not guaranteed um or given you know preference or

told he'd be kind of the favorite to start. So I think that's part of it. And yeah, I don't know. I just feel like if teams thought he was a starting quality cornerback the way that analysts like me kind of think that he kind of is one, then he would have been able to leverage a situation going through free agency where he would have found kind of a starting position. So the fact that he ended up at the Vikings after a long search,

it to me is an indication that he's probably not the favorite anywhere to start. So I, I kind of agree with you, Sam, even if we don't take into account kind of the draft capital, right. Cause he's like a third round pick. It's not like a huge amount of draft capital, but even if we don't take that into account, I just think that the Vikings, the way they've talked about cameron dancer um the way that they have kind of approached that position just generally speaking um and the way

that breland's you know market is shaken up i don't really see him as the favorite to start and technically we're never going to know the answer to this right because if breland does start at the beginning of the season it's not like the two of us are wrong or if dancer starts it's not like matthew collar was wrong because Or if Dancer starts, it's not like Matthew Collar was wrong. Because we're talking about who the Vikings kind of want to win the position. That doesn't mean they'll win the position. But yeah, I think for the most part, the preferred outcome for the Vikings is that Dancer starts

and that they never have to play Breland. I think that they would prefer never to be in a position where they play Breland and that Breland is kind of a super injury sub slash, you know, if that nickel position is not working out, at least he's played it before. That's quite the scenario where no one gets hurt and Breland doesn't have to play, but you're right. That's what the Vikings have been craving for years is to have healthy cornerbacks. And it's kind of been going on like this for three, four years now where Marcus Sherrill's lined up against six, five Greg Olson and six,

five Kelvin Benjamin. I mean, that's how, and that happens every year that they go to their fifth or sixth guy, like early in the season. Yeah. It would be a dream for the Vikings to never have to do that. Yeah.

And I'm more than okay. And I've said this many times, I'm more than okay with having Breland be the fourth man, I'm more than okay with having Breland be the fourth man. Like with NBA has the sixth man, he's the fourth man. He can come in and even like if he and Dantzler are both going to get snaps during the game, I don't necessarily care who starts, but I'm intrigued about who finishes

because if the Vikings are rotating them both in, perhaps Dantzler was a liability late in games last year. Would they go with someone who's a little more seasoned in Breland, even if he's not the starter? That, to me, is another thing to keep your eye on in regular season games. You did mention the fifth and sixth man, and I want to talk about that as well. The consensus would be that Chris Boyd and Harrison Hand

would be five and six right now in whatever order. They were the guys that were occasionally getting first team reps in OTAs because other people were hurt. Is there anybody in your mind on this roster that can bump them off? Because the Vikings didn't invest a lot in corner in the draft. They did bring in a couple of low-level veterans ty smith and perry nickerson they signed amari henderson from rookie tryouts um i don't know if you've done your cornerback scouting reports yet on the athletic but does any of those names kind of uh get your attention it's coming up soon actually i don't think ty smith's that bad honestly um i i think

that they would prefer to have Harrison Hand. Based off of what we saw in camp, I mean, Harrison Hand played well against the ones, honestly, right? That's exciting. You know, who knows if that ever translates, right? Because, you know, it doesn't always. But I think that it's pretty difficult to unseat Hand. I think Chris Boyd just has the system experience that's going to give him kind of a leg up on some of these other guys, especially, you know, like Amari Henderson. I think we saw what Dylan Maben and Perry Nickerson have put together, just generally speaking, it hasn't been that impressive. It wouldn't shock me if Ty Smith takes, you know,

Chris Boyd's spot, but I wouldn't expect it either like I think that um Smith is probably a step ahead of kind of the rest of that group there um but it's not too impressive behind hand which is not that bad if your fifth cornerback is playing as well as hand seems to be playing you're probably in a pretty decent spot uh and if chris boyd is your sixth guy or whatever you're probably not you know hurting as much as you've been in the past as it were um but uh you know that there's every opportunity for like amari henderson to surprise or like i don't think like the vikings might like harrison hand i don't think they're so enamored with him that i like amari hend out of camp with like eight picks and ends up with some first team work.

And he looks good that they're just going to be like, yeah, well, the Harrison Hand looked pretty good in mini camp. Like I don't like, I don't think that they're so enamored that they're not going to let, you know, something kind of change their mind. But yeah, it would, it would surprise me if, if, if there's anybody about hand and Boyd as the fifth and six guys in that

order. Yeah. And six is usually the magic number for cornerbacks. Vikings rarely vary from that. Why don't we do some running back subtle storylines on the offensive side of the ball? Dalvin Cook, I think he's going to be good. That's all we need to say about that. That's not underrated.

Let me pose it to you. Is there anything Dalvin Cook-related below the radar that you're mulling as the season approaches uh i actually i guess if i was going to pick one thing about dalvin cook that doesn't get discussed enough it's that he's been disappointing as a receiver correct i think he should get better at that thing um like he's not a good pass protector right right? But that's kind of like baked into the cake. That doesn't really concern me that much. Like I know there's a bunch of data out there saying the most valuable thing a running back can do is pass protect,

which is one of the most interesting kind of analytical findings about running backs I found recently. But that doesn't bother me because you can kind of like scheme around it a little bit. He's not that good. He's not awful as a receiver. He's not Adrian Peterson, right? He's not that good of a receiver he's got a pretty high drop rate his yards per outrun is not that great as um his yards per like catch is not that great compared to other

receiving backs and i think there's just this perception that he is kind of a receiving back and and he's got like a good totals right like his yards from scrimmage you know he was on pace for like 2000 um what two years ago something like that um it's not like awful production or anything like that but he's not that good of a receiver and i don't know that given kind of who he is physically i don't know that he can't at some point maybe not hit christian mccaffrey levels of receiving capability or anything like that but i don't know that he can't be a top five receiving back. So if he, you know, does all the stuff that Adrian Peterson always says that he does heading into

an off season and works on his hands or whatever it takes for him to be a better receiver. If he does that, I think he enters kind of rarefied air because he's already considered one of the best backs in the league. And if he can actually be better at receiving, then it'd be difficult to argue that he's not one, two, or three. Dalvin Cook in 2019, seven drops, number one amongst running backs, drop rate, fifth worst amongst running backs.

Did improve last year, three drops last year with a drop rate almost twice as good so maybe improvement in that regard but dalvin cook has never made like a tough catch you know like every every catch he makes is one of those back foot cousins logs yeah that occasionally he drops those too but for the amount that they've tried to kind of line cook up in the slot or on the outside occasionally, I guess as a diversion, he's never yielded even a target that I can recall.

Yeah, from like the slot or anything like that? No, I don't think so. I'm sure we could look it up, but like for the most part, it's been very minimal, if any. Yeah, like wheel route. I can't think of a wheel route or even, even sort of, you know, those, those outbreaking or where they line up in the backfield and run straight to the sideline, even those plays. Yeah. He hasn't been super effective.

So I like that you, you manage the criticism of a really good player. That's I respect that. One thing for me, Vaughn the one thing that I'm thinking of right here is, do you remember when Todd Gurley torched Anthony Barr? And it wasn't really even Anthony Barr's fault, right? But it was the game where Anthony Barr got torched by like Robert Woods, then Cooper Cup, and then Todd Gurley. It was just a bad showing for Barr.

Not really his fault in any of those situations. It was just really good scheming by Sean McVay. But the thing that got me about that play was in the red zone, and Todd Gurley always runs an angle route from that formation on that play. And Anthony Barr had set against it. It was actually really good defense by Barr and Gurley just happened to kind of break from tendency, run an angle route, and then actually flip back outside. Really good route running, demonstrated good hands, got the touchdown. That's the level of receiving like i don't need

him to be christian mcafree right i don't need him to be what we all kind of imagine mike boone to be right like he just needs to be like todd girley receiver so yeah that's kind of where i that's the thing that reminds me of that so yeah let's let's talk about the guys that you know hopefully we won't see too much of yeah um alexander madison and kenny wongu um i am compelled by the the ladder there the the fourth round pick because of his speed i think that's just a fun trait to have in a running back and i i find the juxtaposition between the between the two kind of interesting because madison right he is a a hurdler um at bo State, and Wangu is a track star, straight line speed. Look at the discrepancy between their college touches.

If you recall, Madison was known for these tremendous workloads, like 35 carries a game. In college, he touched the ball 641 times in four years. Wangu touched the ball 150. So that's almost a 500-touch difference. We just don't know a ton about this Iowa State kid. So what kind of workload do you anticipate him getting? Yeah, I mean, I think, so you take a look at a player like Wangu,

you take a look at his build, you take a look at his, just kind of his overall skill set and athleticism, and you yeah i can see why the vikings picked him they just lost mike boone to the broncos um but like cook ran dalvin cook ran more routes than wongu had touches right like that's that's the level of disconnect between the amount of time that Wongu's been on the field and the amount of time Dalvin Cook has only participated in one aspect of the game, right? The same thing with Madison, right? So Wongu ran 112 routes, was only targeted 12 times on those routes, and he caught seven passes. Seven passes in his entire four-year college career.

Now, he's had 11 catchable passes, which means that he's dropped four of them. That's a drop rate of over 35%. So, yeah, I mean, he's intriguing, right? But, like, yeah, and in fairness to him, right, he's behind, what's his name, Brees Hall and David Montgomerygomery like two remarkable backs like uh top five backs uh in in college football when they were playing like it's tough to get carries in that environment so um i don't want to knock him too much for that plus he got like he had like a mid-career injury and i think he also an injury at the beginning so like there's reasons but we just don't know that much about him.

What we do know about him is not incredible, except for the times he's broken off a 60-yard run for a touchdown. It turns out he is, in fact, as fast as advertised. You take a look at what he was doing at Iowa State, and he's just running by dudes, and in a fast conference. A conference known for really just having speed and not really much else. So like, yeah,

he's exciting. I just, I don't see him getting on the field all that much. Um, at least on offense, certainly on special teams, but on offense, I just don't really see it this year,

maybe next year. And that happened with my boom. Mike Boone was a receiver when he signed up to go to Cincinnati. Right. And I think he was receivers first his first year at Cincinnati, too. They converted him to running back. And at least with that background, you knew that he could probably catch passes, but he just didn't get that many touches, period, right?

And he got onto the Vikings roster by virtue of his athleticism and his workouts. He obviously developed the technical aspect of his game long enough or well enough to actually earn a spot on the roster eventually. But it took some time. And his first year with the Vikings, I don't think he touched the ball on offense once. So it's not that dissimilar a path, except for the fact that you knew that Boone had receiving chops. You're not really confident that long. It does.

Yeah. RB three is probably even a less relevant conversation than wide receiver three. The Vikings don't use much of either, particularly RB3. RB2 even started getting phased out last year. Madison's carries dropped in 2020 from 2019. Post-buy, he was used so seldom, and it continued to be. And as Dalvin cook got less and less inefficient. And this happens to him every year.

They kind of kept doubling down on Dalvin and Dalvin, certainly a better player. Like even at his worst, he's still really, really good. But is there anything you can see in Madison that would like indicate why he wouldn't get more work? Is there a flaw in his game? Is it his protection? Is it his like with Mike Boone, it was kind of his vision was problematic at times. Is there anything that Madison's doing wrong? Or do you think this team is just so married to Dalvin Cook as the bell cow back? There's like two things. I think one is that,

and this is kind of another PFF study came up pretty recently, that from a pure running perspective, the thing that running backs control the most is their ability to generate explosive plays. That goes from college to the NFL, and it goes from one NFL season to another NFL season. A running back that generates explosive plays on a fairly frequent occasion, relatively speaking, will likely continue to do so. They can't control how often they have two, three, four, five yard runs. But once they see the open field, they can control essentially whether or not that's a 10 yard run or a 20 yard run, right? And that is not a thing that Madison is particularly gifted at.

I think like his numbers, like his explosive run numbers are actually not awful, if I remember correctly. They're not great, um they're not great but they're not awful but you take a look at how he's generated them you take a look at some of his best like 10 plus yard 15 plus yard runs and it's like i don't know how responsible he was for a lot of them plus is i think his most explosive plays were receptions anyway uh kind of like cj hams had like a 30 40 yard reception here there um And so I think that's part of it. That's number one.

Number two, he's actually not as good a pass protector as I think you would expect him to be. His physical capability in pass protection is not bad, although it didn't look like he was all that successful this year. It's really his ability to figure out his assignment and do what's kind of required of him from an assignment perspective. That's an issue he had at Boise State. And it seems like it was an issue his rookie year with the Vikings,

not knowing his assignment and pass protection. And I wouldn't be shocked if that continues to be kind of a concern for the Vikings going forward. So pass protection, another thing where physically I feel like he can do it, although his numbers that aren't great last year, they were better the year before. But I think from an assignment perspective, knowing that he knows what he needs to do in pass protection,

that I think is one reason that you would see a snaps limited. Does Abdullah make the team? I think so. I just think just because there's, there's so little with Wongu that you feel like you can rely on as a running back, because it's not as if the Vikings think Dalvin Cook is like an Ironman or anything like that yeah they ran him into the ground last

year but they're always going to be concerned about injury and when injury happens Madison's not going to it's not going to be a one-for-one replacement they're going to look for a third running back to to fill in if you know Dalvin Cook gets injured and I don't know that they feel like they would be able to trust Wangu with that role do you have a case to make for aj rose jr i know you wrote about him and you're scouting reports at the athletic and you got me kind of excited he was a quarterback in high school he had um he read it was 18th of 130 running backs in percentage of runs of 15 yards or more um you're kind of you're pumping his tires a little bit here aj rose yeah when you when you only read his strength section he sounds like a pretty great well yeah

there's that yeah um no i mean he kind of reminds me of like a less um a less powerful late c-strunk if you remember him from the 2014 draft yeah baylor yeah there you go yeah um you know the the the the running back that wasn't bishop sankey which you know the vikings actually ended up getting bishop sankey for a bit but um yeah like i think that the that rose is not like he he's kind of a smooth runner but he's too tall when he runs. He like lifts his pad level up. He doesn't really have a ton of ball security and he just doesn't have the kind of running style you typically see in successful zone runners, which is kind of this explosive first step.

Like when he's changing directions, you know, he looks fairly fluid. He actually kind of looks like a wide receiver. Was he like six feet tall? I think so. Rose is six feet tall and he moves kind of fluidly like a wide receiver. And so he runs like you'd expect a lot of receivers to run, which is not that great in a crowded box behind the line of scrimmage. And it's not that great for his own running scheme that really requires that explosive kind of first step out. Like that's like a lot of people will look at Alexander Madison's like when's like, what do you run the combine? Like a four, six, one or something like that. Um, he ran better at his pro day, but a lot of people remember that combine and they're like,

well, I don't know that he's an explosive athlete, but he is right. He hurdles. He's got a great first step. It's really well built for zone running. Kind of like the same thing with Dalvin cook. Who's got, you know, this really great first step in zone running. AJ Rose is just kind of like a, it takes time to gear up kind of guy. And when he's at full gear, his change of direction looks really cool and it's smooth and solid, but he doesn't like explode

in terms of change of direction. And when you don't have explosive acceleration and when you don't have a lot of power when you run, there's not a ton you can ask him to do. Like I like, he was better at kind of reading his box than I thought. I'd like him to be a little bit more creative. But I think for the most part, he's not. I mean, I don't think he's going to make the roster, Sam.

I don't know what to tell you. The practice squad is bigger than it used to be. There's chances for everybody. There's chances, yeah. I think the number one, like running game underrated storyline is the thing that perturbed me the most last year and probably more so than a lot of people in my position. But I dug into the numbers late December last year with just, I think, one or two games left in the season the second down play selection was so like out of whack for me and these are some of the numbers i wrote about yeah yeah these are

some of the numbers i wrote about last year on average teams ran it 66 on second and short the vikings ran it 88 like an opportunity to kind of take a shot with one of your two receivers seven out of eight they ran the ball let me interject to add this second and one is the most efficient down and distance in football it's in fact better for teams and i'm not saying the team should uh design around this but it's better for teams to be on second and one than it is for them to get that first down on first and ten for ten yards. Like second and one is remarkable, and that's because no matter what,

defenses have to defend against the run, and then teams will pass. So the fact that the Vikings run into the teeth of the defense, which expects a run by nature of second and short, and don't throw the ball that much, is just like it's malpractice. Sorry, keep going. So second and short short it's a problem

second and long in the first three quarters of games the vikings were rushing it 45 percent on second and 10 or more which was number one in the nfl so i don't know if this is like a genetic trait like if it'll pass down from kubiak to kubiak but that has to be something that gets regulated right i i hope so um but the thing is i think if you take a look at gary kubiak's offenses before houston denver it wasn't that big a problem so i think it's a vikings thing i think it's a zimmer thing that um hey man we did what you wanted we passed on first down and it didn't work right that's usually what second and long is. Usually, it's when you pass on first down,

and you get an incompletion, so now you're on second and 10. And it didn't work, man. Let's run the ball, because if we don't run the ball here, we won't be able to run the ball, which for some reason is important. If you don't run the ball on second and long, and you pass, then uh-oh, now it's third and long, and now you won't be able to run at all which like running to run is what it seems like to me but yeah i think that's it and and zimmer is still the coach right so uh and now you've got a guy with a little bit less cultural cachet

than than gary right his son is not going to be able to push back as strongly or stringently as as maybe gary could have so uh I don't know that that gets fixed. It should get fixed. Right. But like, yeah. Yeah. Second and long running just shot through the heart,

man. When you, yeah. When you can, when you can guarantee yourself a nice little third and six, which is basically like the blackjack table, they said, all right,

we're going to guarantee you a 14. What do you think? That's exactly what it is. It's like, well, I mean, I guess it's not a 16, but damn, come on, man. So, yeah, that's going to be a problem this year. I think I'll start a Twitter thread of just like pointing out every time it happens. 88% on second and short and almost 50 50 on second and long um crazy crazy stuff let's do some headlines and then we'll get out of here a

couple minutes left with our buddy arifasan um this isn't actually new news but it's being treated as new news aaron rogers turned down a massive offer from the Packers reportedly that would have been 40 plus million dollars per year, kept him there for five more years. He turned it down cold. He said, no, I don't want your money. I want to go to Hawaii and I want to play golf many times. And I want to hang out with my fiance. Um, so now we're approaching training camp we're a week away and i i guess that's the next deadline if you will um where you know you might expect something to happen if it's going to happen but the real takeaway from this is a reef is that aaron rogers is just turning more and more into brett farve like he's he's dragging his feet of brett farve he's waffling he is is going to try to skip as much training camp as possible. When has he waffled this offseason?

When has he done anything but indicate he's not returning? Okay, poor choice of words on my part. But the offseason uncertainty is still very familiar. And I don't know if maybe this is a tact to obviously get more money, but also he can kind of swoop in whenever he wants and still be the revered starter. Like he doesn't have to earn anything. He can show up September 1st if he wants to. It's a pretty good spot to be in.

I'll say this. Rodgers and Favre are different in one really significant way, which is that rogers does not mind doing off-season work at all like he shows up to voluntary workouts all the time like in previous years he doesn't mind like farve was like yeah the reason i'm not signing with the vikings right now is because if i signed right now i'd have to be in training camp and i'd have to do training camp stuff and i'm not interested in that so i'll sign right before the season starts so i don't have to do practices and that's kind of how he's been his entire career. Rodgers isn't really like that. So I don't really think that there's, you know, a one-to-one comparison here to be made,

not to say that, that Packers fans aren't like wrong for feeling like this is a familiar problem, right? Like it is, right. I don't want to take that away, but there are some pretty like significant differences. The other is like, you know, it's not like the NFL could ever restrict players from getting name image likeness. Right. Right. Like they've always had NIL and and Rogers's value is enormous. Right. I bet he makes way more from endorsements than he ever did in a salary cap environment. Right. So I don't know that the Packers could offer him enough money for him to not be able to say, actually, what's important to me is that for the next couple of years of my life, I like the area where I'm working, right? Because for 17 to 22 weeks of the year, I'm spending 60, 70, 80 hours a week doing this. And what's money if not

for making my life better? And if I can't be in a situation where my life isn't good, where I'm not in an environment, a team environment that I like, there's no point for me making more money because I'm comfortable as it is from a money standpoint. That's how I'm interpreting it. You know, I put a lot of words into his mouth, but they all seem like reasonable words to me. So, yeah, I think it's pretty clear he's not going to play for the Packers.

The most interesting thing he could have done is covet opt out if he could if he that's passed right but if he had opted out that would have been an amazing move right because then the packers are forced to pay him not a ton but the factors are forced to force to pay him and and he's not playing for them and it's very clear no matter what he, it's very clearly a signal that this is about the Packers. Like he could say, no, this year I am just concerned about the Delta variant or whatever. No, no one would believe him, right? And no one should.

But that would have been the most interesting. And he hasn't done that because I think he wants to try and find a way to like force a Carson Palmer type mid-season trade to another team. If I'm adding up right here, you talked about Rodgers having plenty of money. It's not really about the money. I think I'm getting about $201 million in salaries since 2005. So he's made a little bit in his career.

I think he'll be all right. I bet he's made more in endorsements, right? Like we're taking a look at his spot track total cash earnings and it's $200 million. And that's not bad. I could live on 200 million. You don't have to give me another cent. I'll find a way to live the next 60 years of my life. If I live that long, I'll find a way to, to live on $200 million. Look at the, the inflating price of the milwaukee bucks he's got a share of that

as well right yeah he should he sells it right now he's probably uh making a profit income yeah yeah uh bucks in six by the way go milwaukee i uh that rand ball pointed this out in the column in the star tribune like there's really no animosity between minnesotans and the bucks like there's not a rivalry there. People, I think, are generally pretty happy about it. Yeah. I think that if they played in the same division, we'd have something.

They should play in the same division. I think if they did, we'd maybe have something to say. But it's like, yeah, whatever. And also, the Bucs are hard to hate, right? Before Giannis, it was like they've had a, they've had a Keem, right? And they've had Kareem, right? Like, those are some pretty likable guys.

Like just generally speaking, they've been liking. For sure. Yeah. Giannis is like only the most like humble, likable superstar in the league right now. He's got an awesome— Every video I've seen of him this past week has just been endearing as hell. Oh, my God.

They better win tonight. I mean, I don't have anything against the Suns, but yeah. They have to. Yeah. This is your purple NBA podcast. Lastly, actually, no, two more things. Cam Akers ruptured his eight or not his ACL, his Achilles. Daryl Henderson might be next man up. And, you know, for the Rams, I think they have

really adopted that kind of running back stable. I don't know if anybody is ever going to be a workhorse in that offense, but Daryl Hendersonenderson looks to be your number one raymond calais xavier jones jake funk it's it's a fairly anonymous room uh unless they sign a veteran running back adrian peterson question mark yeah some people brought up adrian peterson some other people nate kice brought up trading for james robinson which i would love by way. Yeah. They do this running back stable thing, but they also like invest a fair amount, right? Like acres is a second round pick Darrell Henderson's a third round pick. It's just kind of weird, but the most fun outcome to me would be Jake Funk,

not just because of the name, right. Which is already great. I think he was the best athlete at running back in this year's draft. Like he's a super athlete. And it would be fun to see a super like if he's if he's got enough vision if he's a good running back from a technical perspective it'd be fun to see him in that style of offense that should give him a fair amount of room to run um i don't know like uh that that would be that kind of explosiveness would just be like kind of fun to put on the field if the rams offered the vikings a fifth for alexander madison right now would you take it i know the vikings wouldn't um would arif hassan gm arif hassan

uh yeah i guess yeah i don't love it. I would do it. I guess I would. I'd have to, maybe they sign Adrian Peterson. I'd have to make sure that we've got a backup. But yeah, I'd probably do it. Find a backup on the free agent market. I'm sure there's a couple. I think Amir Abdullah can do well enough for 96 carries a season. Not a season, Arif. That's six a game.

My worry is the Dalvin cook injury thing that's my my worry is not yeah the 90 odd carries the dalvin cook is somehow not gonna get that's not the like i don't care give it to wong who cares but it's it's when dalvin cook or if i should say if dalvin cook gets injured and then i just be like i don't know man should i call ben tate again like i don't know steven ridley oh yeah he's got divisional experience right yeah um lastly melvin ingram to the steelers are you intrigued yeah i like it i haven't actually seen a ton of melvin ingram very recently outside of like the stuff i've had to write for national um i like melvin ingram i thought that he was much better than the deal that he got and he should have

gotten a longer deal. And he's a very Steelers ish guy. So he, I mean, he can rush on the outside. He could play in like he, at one point he played like 270 pounds in college. Right. And played a bunch of inside stuff, but the Steelers like smaller outside linebackers. And I think that he could slim down and do it if he wanted to. And he'd be really excellent at that. It's just kind of a really good way to compliment Alex Highsmith,

who probably is going to take over for Bud Dupree. So having a rotational guy and they're a third round guy. Great. Love it. Good move by the Steelers. It's too bad they don't have a quarterback. Four of Ingram's seven games last year were amazing per pff um so i don't think this was a player that was like headed toward being washed and

then got hurt i think he was still playing at a pretty high level so yeah that's i i really thought he should have gotten a longer deal and a better deal it was surprising that he it took as long to sign him also isn't justin houston still available or something like that like he hasn't signed anywhere right i think you're right um i'll double check on that but yeah he's one of those names that's just been sitting sitting sitting out there he does say he's a free agent age 32 uh yeah yeah he's one of the last kind of big names out there yeah kind of weird all right sure before i let you go are you willing to share a mr mancato preference i know we're a week out and we don't even have the odds yet so you can't like yeah your value bet so with the right to change the opinion later do you have any tells or any kind of gut instincts on this? I saw you tweet at Chris Long to lobby for KJ Osborne to be made a candidate.

And I get it. And I, from the principle of thing, I agree with you, but I just don't appreciate you, you know, kind of trying to mess with the process. I was asking for a friend. Didn't you read the tweet? I made sure to say that. Yeah, yeah sure may or may not be for me friend named am sextrum yeah uh that is my alter ego yeah i think uh um but yeah i i like the osborne pick just generally but i think that uh i'm gonna go with blake prohl i really like what i saw from him in college he didn't see a ton from him in camp but i thought he played better than smith marsette and wop and

i mean dan chisholm is not really a ton to overcome there so uh yeah i like blake prole okay i appreciate that you're probably getting better odds on him like 15 20 to 1 that's probably a better bet osborne if eligible i would i would put probably in the top five candidates i mean our top five odds along with i think him and amir smith-marset i think the odds for them will be extremely yeah i think would be up there as well just because of the name just because well the position i mean you can make noise as a running back that's true yeah in the preseason. Yeah. Yeah. That's fair. Yeah.

So we will. Oh, and Kellen Mond. Nope. Sorry. He's too high. Third. My bad. Yeah.

My bad. Arif Hassan writing about the Vikings at the athletic and the national football league at large at the athletic. I'm sure you will hear from him again. Once training camp comes around one week from now, Arif, we'll see you out there at TCO. Yeah. See you then. I'm Sam extra Matthew collar back in, I believe tomorrow. This has been the purple insider podcast. Thanks for listening. Talk to you soon.