Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - The Athletic's Chad Graff joins for mock Vikings GM candidate interviews and what-ifs from the Zimmer era

Episode Date: January 14, 2022

Matthew Coller and Sam Ekstrom are joined by The Athletic's Chad Graff to talk about what the interviews for GM candidates might end up being like ... we each ask questions to each other and try to give the best answers that the Wilfs will want to hear (and the right things for the team). Then the discussion about Chad's article on Zimmer era what-ifs turns into a trip down memory lane of all the crazy things that could have been... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

TD Direct Investing offers live support, so whether you're a newbie or a seasoned pro, you can make your investing steps count. And if you're like me and think a TFSA stands for Total Fund Savings Adventure, maybe reach out to TD Direct Investing. hello welcome to the return of the friday roundtable matthew collar sam extram along with from the athletic chad graff we're uh very glad to have you back on the show, Chad, but also to have the Friday Roundtable back in our lives. And great timing. We have a GM and coach search to discuss. So what's up, Chad? Oh, not much.

Good to be with you on this snowy Friday morning. Good to chat with you guys. All right, tell me something. Here's where I want to kick this off. How in the world do you figure out if some person who is a director of player personnel or director of scouting or whatever how do you figure out if they're going to be the right gm pick because you know i was going back and i was writing a piece about you know the traits that you need from the next general manager and a lot of them are sort of subtle jabs at the last administration, but that's how it goes. And I had this thought about like,

you know, what a good hire Gerson Rosas seemed to be. And so I went back and I looked at his introductory press conference and all I Googled was Gerson Rosas collaboration. And oh man, I mean, that was all the whole thing. He's plans to be so collaborative. And while he did collaborate maybe in the wrong way with the PR department, but not so much with the rest of the front office. to figure this out because every GM candidate will win the opening press conference. But how do we decide whether they did the right thing or not when they hire one of these people that none of us have ever heard of until yesterday? Well, I was just trying to put myself in Andrew Miller, the CEO's shoes of what questions do you even ask? And like, how specific do you get in terms of, A, are you saying we currently have our quarterback on a $45 million cap? What would you do with this? What would it take for you to get a trade? Would you prefer to

extend him? What do you think of him? That's the biggest question after these decisions are made. I assume you're going to want to know what the person you choose is going to do. So do you get as explicit as saying, forecast the next three months for me? Who do you like in the draft? What would you do in free agency? How would you handle our quarterback situation? That's kind of an awkward thing also for these people

who are currently competitors working other jobs against these teams. And then the other thing I was thinking about is how in the world do you go about judging leadership in a 10 minute, 30 minute, however long interview? Like leadership isn't something that I don't think anyway, you can find out just by having a conversation with someone. You can find out if they're charismatic.

I think you can get a decent grasp on their knowledge of the CBA and the situation and your roster and how much homework have they done? Have they taken this seriously? I think you can learn a lot in an interview process, but I don't think that you can find out how good of a leader is in a 30-minute Zoom call with someone. Yeah, no doubt, Chad. This is a really hard search to analyze. And my curiosity goes to when they hire head coaches in the NFL, it's always the opposite. You go from defensive minded to offensive minded, go from a gruff exterior to a people person. Is the GM search going to be like that, too?

Because I think with Rick Spielman, there was sort of a hierarchy where he made a lot of the decisions. He was very hands on. He was the top scout. And I see a lot of that sort of in like the John Spytek profile, for instance. I think he and Spielman are sort of cut from the same cloth. And then you've got some very different candidates too, like Catherine Reich. I hope I'm saying the name right from Philadelphia. 33-year-old woman probably has a different way of going about it. So do you look for someone who was sort of like Spielman in their skillset or do you go the complete opposite way? Because this is a very diverse pool of candidates. Like the eight names are all over the map, differing backgrounds. Like, are you looking for something totally different to really shake up

this front office? I think, you know, well, it's interesting because they keep saying that they're interested in collaboration, but it's so easy for any of these people interviewing for the job. Oh, yes, yes. I'm really good at collaborating. I'm going to have my scouts do the scouting. I'm going to take everybody's opinion is it's a whole other world. Once you're actually sitting in the seat and every decision falls on you even if you weren't as sold on whatever player in the draft as everybody else is doesn't matter their decisions coming back to you so you know it's easy i think to say that you're going to be a good collaborator um until you sit in that seat the other thing that i think is is important and

noteworthy and um shio kapadia wrote this. I think he does great work from a national perspective. He was talking about the interview process. And essentially if you're a good organization, you're doing one of these a decade, um, for the Vikings case, they haven't interviewed front office candidates in 15 plus years. Cause that's how long Rick Spielman has been here. So this is a chance to get a lot of different perspectives hear from a lot of people have them give you their honest take on your roster what has gone well what

has not gone well um even i am not opposed to interviewing somebody that you don't really have an intention of hiring like i remember jason garrett got an interview i think maybe it was with the giants when they ended up with joe judge which you know is a whole other can of worms but like I don't think you should be worried about the blowback that you get for interviewing somebody interview as many people as you want and get a ton of different perspectives hear what they all think like even if you don't think you want to hire somebody from the Packers I do think it's worth eventually bringing Nathaniel Hackett be like hey how did you handle this Aaron Rogers thing? How have you gotten the best out of him and made him an envy, you know,

helped him to this MVP candidacy in a season when he basically wanted to say F all of you. So, um, I don't know if you necessarily have to zig and zag in the front office and go with somebody completely different from Rick Spielman, but interview and talk to as many people as you possibly can. Yeah, okay, so quick game here. Let's play a game. I want to ask you, Chad, a question when you play GM candidate,

and then you ask me or Sam, and then we'll just keep going, and then, Sam, you ask the other person. So let's do mock interview here. And let me start out with this, Chad. So you sit down. You say, great to meet you gm candidate x uh how's the weather outside pretty cold and snowy that's how it is here in minnesota okay good to know you want something to drink okay here we go what do you do with the quarterback

like that's that is the first question that i'm asking how would you as a gm candidate answer what you're doing at quarterback? Well, so I don't think that you can necessarily throw everything under the bus. I don't think that the right approach is to come in scorched earth and be like, you cannot win with this guy. The salary cap is way too high. What was the last guy? You signed off on this? What were you thinking? So I think you probably come in with some sort of respect of you know kirk cousins has done a lot of good things in this league i think um in my personal roster building philosophy i wouldn't want to allocate more than 20 of the salary cap to any one player um you know unless they had

several mvps to their name so uh i would be wary of that, Mr. Wilfs and Mr. Miller. So thank you for that question. Given that he has one year left on his contract, I would probably explore some trade possibilities. And if we could get back a day one or two pick, I think that would be worth it. And so that's how I would approach it. I have a lot of respect for your quarterback, Mr. Wilfs. And if the first round pick doesn't come, then we ride out this season and reevaluate next year with a better quarterback class. I've been scouting the college quarterback so much in my current job. So I have a really good grasp on that, by the way. So thank you for that question. But GM candidate Sam, I'm also really curious.

Our last regime put a lot of stock into the running game, and we've paid a lot of money to our running back. How do you look at our current offensive philosophy and the money that we've allocated to that position? Well, I appreciate that question. And let me just say, you've assembled some amazing offensive talent here. Justin Jefferson, Adam Thielen, Dalvin Cook is a really good running back. Kirk Cousins has we getting bang for our buck out of this position? And Dalvin Cook is awfully talented, but could you get 75% of that production or better from a cheaper option? I think that if you look at some of the successful teams in this league, they're able to use two, three backs on any given week and be successful with just having change of pace, different styles of running back that have talent in their own right. And while Dalvin's very

talented, I'm not sure that paying a running back is my personal philosophy. Now, that being said, with the money that we're paying Dalvin, let's absolutely use him and utilize him and make him a big piece of this offense. And down the road, probably would not subscribe to that philosophy. So offensively, I think I want to throw. I want to spread the defense out and then run against light boxes, right? But I think if you use Dalvin Cook the right way, use him efficiently, you know, don't put too many miles on the body. I think he can be a really important piece of

this offense. But let me turn a question to GM candidate Matthew on the defensive side of the ball. How are you going to fix this thing? Well, I tell you, I come from Texas and, you know, I tell you guys got great facilities up here. And once upon a time, I remember when I was coaching the Denver Broncos, and they had a great defense. And Carl Mecklenburg was a guy that I really was a big fan of out there. He's a Minnesota boy. So let me say about this that it starts with the cornerback position, my friends, that you got to rush the passer.

I get that. But you guys had some of the top sacks in the league last year and still couldn't cover anybody and that's what i think comes in the clutch you know you say it's passing league well it's a stop in the passing league in my opinion as well so you got to get those cornerbacks you got to probably draft them high and i understand that you know i have a quarterback situation to deal with as well but if we don't find those corners then we ain't going to stop nobody and, you know, we can figure out ways I could scheme ways I can have everybody, you know, on the coaching staff, figure out those blitzes.

But when it comes to one-on-one coverage at the end of the game versus Amari Cooper, I'm in Ross St. Brown, you know, that's a, I say that that's pretty, pretty darn important position. So, you know, but I think here's the thing we We've got to develop them players. You've got to draft them. You've got to develop them. And then when our timeline strikes the right point, that's when you sign your Stephon Gilmore or you sign your top corner,

not your 32-year-old corner who's coming off his worst two years, but your corner in the prime or you make a trade or something like that. So, you know, I think this defense just got some pieces, but I also think it's pretty far away, so we've got to get started right away. But let me just direct another question here. I love that Gary is a candidate. Now, look, you know, on the offensive side, we need a fullback, but you didn't address that quite well enough, Sam.

But let me just pass this over to Chad. Now, you talked about leadership earlier. Explain to me then how you're going to manage the culture of this front office now. And I'm from Texas now and I don't want any BS. We don't have BS in Texas. We're straight shooters. So I want to hear the straight shooting, how are you going to handle the front office? Well, I think, you know, the straight shooting is a good place to start. I think any good leadership has to come from a place of honesty. I think that we need to let our players know where they stand and treat them like adults

and not necessarily play mind games with them and not, you know, perhaps try to manipulate them through the press or through any other means. You know, I think times have changed and players today deserve a little more respect than perhaps they got in the 70s and 80s. And just to use one example under Bill Parcells. So I think that we need to treat players with respect. I think that, you know, I think that's a good place to start. And then additionally, I think it's all about collaboration. You know, I think that we've got to bring in a staff that really likes to work together, staff that respects each other you know and I think delegation is a

big part of that I as your next GM have to be able to let my my scouting staff run the draft board and I have to defer to them these are the guys who have watched every snap. And I need to defer to my coaching staff as to what players they need. And I think very importantly, find players who fit their scheme. Like if we're going to run his own scheme, I don't want to be drafting an overweight guard and having to try to have him keep up. But you know, that feels like a recipe to lead to zero snaps. So I don't want to do that, which is a big part of leadership and collaboration and delegation, I think, which I guess leads to one other question that I have for GM candidate Sam. Finally, one of my last questions for you is the offensive line has been a very big issue here in Minnesota.

We have allocated free agency money. We have allocated high draft picks. We still struggle on the offensive line. How would you go about fixing that? Folks, we've got an even better offer to tell you about from SodaStick. If you use the promo code purpleinsider, one word, you can get 15% off your purchase. That's right. At SodaStick.com, your place for Minnesota sports-inspired apparel. You can get 15% off just by using the code PURPLEINSIDER. I've told you about all the great football designs, but they've added a few more, including the Axe is Back for Minnesota football fans. You can get that on a shirt, on a hat.

And also, Randy Moss is the Goat, the Purple People Eaters, Bud Grant designs for the old school fan plus the hockey and basketball teams are both actually exciting this year and soda stick has you covered there as well go to soda stick that.com that is s-o-t-a-s-t-i-c-k.com and use the code purple insider for 15 off well again i appreciate that question thank you so much for asking um i uh i think you know if you if you want a good gm gm who's going to fix that offensive line go with ryan poles from the chiefs because he's an offensive lineman himself not that i'm taking myself out of the running but i i think you you gotta find some balance here because you know some off seasons you're you're spending all the money you're

spending all the free agency money you're bringing in mike remmers and riley reef and you know you're trying out alex boone and josh klein like you tried though you tried that but it seems like you got spooked and then you decided i'm kind'm kind of taking on Matthew's Southern accent a little bit. I don't know why that's happening. And then you decided, no, we're not going to spend any money. We're just going to elevate mediocre day three backups or undrafted free agents to be starters who've never started before. I think there's balance there. I think that you can use

a hybrid approach of draft picks plus free agents and then use those internal options as depth. They don't need to be starters. You're allowed to spend some of your money on free agents without going broke. And you can get bargains too. If you look at some of those deals that came out the last couple of years, you don't need to spend 10 million on a guy. You can spend 2 million on a guy and they might be a more suitable option than your Ole Udos, your Rashad Hills, your Dakota Dozers. All right. So I think you can't go too far in one direction. There's a spectrum, right? There's one end of the spectrum. There's the other end of the spectrum. And you guys have been on the extremes. It's very polarizing. Now, if you just find somewhere in the middle to land, I think that's a really good way to

go about it. So let me pass on a question to GM candidate, Matthew. There's a lot of talk about these newfangled analytics and people talking about winning probability, whatever that means. How does that hold a place in your approach to running this team, working with the head coach, and what message do you want to send to that coach regarding some of these crazy new numbers the kids are talking about? Well, I'll tell you, back in my day when we had uh you know john elway that was our analytics we said you know give the ball john elway let him throw down the field touchdown that's what i said but uh you know today we have a lot of numbers now

think about some of the things that you guys just talked about like the uh the offensive line and where the best offensive linemen usually come from and how you can develop them and there's actually studies my friends my friend Wilfs, that have shown that offensive line coaches, the better ones, actually have an impact on how the offensive line performs. So you can't have, say, your offensive line coach not get vaccinated and then be working from home all year long. But, you know, if you find one of those Bill Callahan types

or, you know, Scar Neckiers or whatever his name was in New England, you get one of those guys, that's going to help you. But I think when you rank 32nd in investment on the offensive line, you're not going to do so good when it comes to that. But you've got to be able to find those guys. You could spot them using them analytics, those PFF thingers, to see someone like Matt Filer in the free agent market and go get them. It's also about, you know, you don't take a right tackle who's pretty good and then you give them all the money in the entire world.

Maybe you want to have five good offensive linemen instead of giving it all into one guy. So that's another way to do it. But there's no easy answer to that. But you can use the numbers to point you in those directions to rebuild. And the same thing, you know, and Chad, you were talking about, you know, and the same thing you know and chad you were talking about you know letting the coaches tell that you what they need i think it's kind of the opposite i think the numbers should tell you what you need and you tell the coaches do their dang job uh that you know you cornerbacks are valuable edge rushers are valuable centers in the first round not so valuable but the coach said oh i need a center need that zone blocker well

that's too bad that's not how we're going to do things around here we're going to find a value center using them analytics uh but i think that uh you know your previous regime had some understanding of analytics and how to use them but i think that value was not necessarily the key when you're franchise tagging a number two safety for example to pay them 13 million i don't know of any analytics that would have said give anthony harris all the money and don't draft antoine winfield jr so you know i think that that's i think that's a major part of it uh friends is you know value when it comes to the philadelphia eagles where i didn't come from because i'm from texas it's uh

you're gonna have three draft picks in the first round next year. And they're in the playoffs now. That's where we want to be. We want to be using, using our money wisely as Chad, you talked about. So I think we all have very good cases to be the next GM, but let me break the character for a moment. And Gary, just for a moment, Bravo and seed. Yes. I didn't get a follow-up to ask how the ranch in Texas has been, but I assume things are going well and just want to uh to pat you on the back um for for some great gm interviews i think

there's a chance that the will see this video and uh and perhaps courtney cronin will soon be leaking that uh the three of us have interviews lined up so um stay tuned for that uh and i hope i see you guys at tco on our way out of the interview room. Well, I tell you, I was watching Sanford and Son while I was actually making the first 15 plays out for next week. And, you know, things are going pretty good down here at the ranch. Mowed the lawn a couple times, drew up some more plays that would succeed early in the game, but not so much later. So there was a lot in there. Anyway, no, but you know, I, I,

it was a fun exercise though, aside from me being a goofball, but the, I think that the funny thing about it is the perspective that we have being like covering the NFL, but watching the fish float around in their tank and do their things is that we, we sort of see the bigger picture on this, just even as reporters of like, what's working, what didn't work. And I think that, you know, that outside perspective or unique perspectives would be very smart for the Wilfs to have aside from just the people who are in it. And I don't mean hire Chad as the GM, although I have long thought that,

and I think the numbers back this up, that any one of us could actually handle free agency and the draft and have just as good of a chance as these entire organizations, because we all have the same information and we all know everything about the league. Like whether you have an MBA from Stanford or whether you're just Chad graph, you could figure out that Patrick Peterson's not worth 10 million bucks. It's just not that hard that anyway. So that's a total aside, but let me let me switch gears though with you, Chad, and we don't have to do full interviews, but just yeah, I've been talking a lot about the coaching candidates. So people are tired of hearing me talk about them. So now you talk about them and go. you know, it's hard to say front runners or people that I think might have the best shot, especially when there's not even a GM and the GM is going to have a lot of say in this.

But the two names I think I immediately came back to right away were A, Eric Biennemi. I know that he gets a lot of gruff from a certain group of fans who say, this guy doesn't call the plays. How good can he be? There there are supposedly i keep seeing in my twitter mentions reports of him not getting along with players but then i can't find those reports anywhere um so that is odd but that's a roundabout way of saying he has a relationship with the wilfs he was the associate head coach of the vikings at one point under childress um promoted because childress you know saw some offensive acumen in him. He has coached two of the best offensive players in the NFL in the last two decades,

in Adrian Peterson and Patrick Mahomes. Not saying that those guys are good because of him. They were first rounders. But it's at least noteworthy that you don't get a lot of NFL jobs. And the ones that you got ended up playing a role in two of the best freaking players alive. And, you know, I think Andy Reid's assistants have probably done better than Bill Belichick's if we're looking at coaching trees. And so, you know, for a number of reasons, I think he gets a long lengthy look at this thing. And then the other guy is Doug Peterson.

The way things ended in Philadelphia was obviously not great. It's not often that a coach wins a Super Bowl and then is gone a couple of years later. But I do think that he deserves another look and another chance in part because the whole reason that thing kind of fell apart was Carson Wentz. So I think that you have to look at it as an interesting candidate for two reasons. One, Carson Wentz kind of stinks. I think that has been established as he tried to go to Jacksonville and couldn't beat the Jags to get the Colts in the playoffs. His own GM came out this week and was like, ah, you know, I'm not going to say I regret signing him, but we're going to have some major decisions to look at a quarterback for the Colts.

And the other thing is, yes, it was just one season, but that 2017 season is freaking crazy and remarkable, the job that he did. He took Nick Foles, who couldn't beat out Andy Dalton this year. He took Nick Foles to a Super Bowl win over Tom Brady. The defense was good the offense was good they were innovative they did a lot of cool things so I think he gets a long look and then the other guy and I don't know if he would jive as well I don't know I've never heard him talk but I'm just fascinated by Brian Dable and Buffalo he is the guy that I think if it were up

to me would be at the top of my list and the first guy that I wanted to interview. Getting the most out of Josh Allen, turning a guy who, let's face it, didn't put up crazy numbers at Wyoming and turning him into an MVP candidate. The way that they are aggressive, they go for it on fourth down, which is intriguing to me. They pass, I think, in the top five in the league in, when you just look at neutral situations, they're one of the most pass-heavy teams. They've been on the forefront of a lot of this, which I think speaks highly. And then just the fact that he's made Josh Allen what he is is incredibly intriguing. So those are the three that I think stand out to me the most. Yeah, I like Doug Peterson a lot.

And, you know, I also have my concerns about the Wentz relationship. But I also remember from that Super Bowl where there's the NFL films clip of Foles coming to the sideline and basically saying Philly special. And coach is like, yeah, let's do it. Which reminded me a lot of sort of the Harbaugh Lamamar relationship where they're totally willing to listen to the other person. Like that tells me that Doug Peterson can have a good relationship with quarterbacks. He's going to be open. He's going to be flexible. And I don't know what happened with Wentz. It might've been a little bit on Wentz, to be honest with you. So, and, but the thing about Peterson is the fact that he's been already linked to a Vikings interview tells me that the Vikings like him too, right? Because they've got this pool of eight GM candidates, but we've only heard about two head coaches. One of them is pretty back channel with Lane Kiffin, and the other one is Peterson, right?

So that seems like someone that they want to get out in front of, interview early, and almost as if to say, if they like him, hey, we got to hire this GM, but don't accept any other jobs. That's what I'm inferring from it, the fact that they are seemingly interested in him even before having a GM. I also would be curious, Chad, just to get your gut reaction to the Kiffin speculation, because it's very out of the box. And I don't want to, you know, say he's Urban Meyer because he's not Urban Meyer, right? He just kind of has, I think, a reputation that would connect him with someone like Urban Meyer. And I'm not saying

that's fair, but I think that would sort of carry through in the public opinion. And that would make him a little more susceptible to criticism because of all the messes he's been a part of in his past. How does that rumor strike you, Chad? My first reaction was, this is complete BS. Maybe it's not. Maybe he'll interview. I don't get the sense that the Vikings are actually serious about hiring him. That could be very wrong. Maybe he comes in with a great interview. If they do interview him, I think it's more of what we were talking about with what Sheil wrote about. Interview as many people from as as much as any ownership group. They envision themselves being the Pittsburgh Steelers. They want to hire their Mike Tomlin and have him for the next 15 years. They want to consistently be in the playoffs. You know, they have told people we want to be the Steelers.

They put the money into the facilities. They put the money in the stadium. That is their goal. If you look at coaching options, I think if you looked at the polar opposite of stability, you would probably look at Lane Kiffin. I mean, I went to his Wikipedia just to refresh myself on his past after the news came out. And his Wikipedia is so long, even just the bio side on the right hand side of Wikipedia, because there have been so many jobs

and leaving in the middle of the night and fired on tarmacs and all sorts of crazy stuff. And I think, you know, you can only say, you know, bad circumstance so many times before at some point, the drama falls on you. You can't keep saying, am I the drama? What's going on here? You know, so if the Vikings are looking for stability, which I think they are, and which would track with everything that the Wilfs have said and done since they became owners, he does not seem like the kind of guy that would fit. You know, here's what I think just about the Wilfs, though, is, for example, I don't eat a lot of sugar. So I'll be like, oh, you know, I'm just that, you know, I'm not having any cake or anything. But then, you know, when the cake comes out, you're like, OK, well, you know, the cake does look pretty good. I kind of tasted it and, you know, whatever.

I think they're that way with hype and excitement and things like that, where they're like, we are the most deliberate team that has ever deliberated. And yet. But then it's like, yeah, but what about signing this quarterback to the most money of all time oh uh now is that a great idea there were a lot of folks who analyzed that and said that's not a great idea because of the history of paying quarterbacks who are just in the middle of the league uh that much money but they were pretty excited to pay that contract. And I think that there were other incidents of this as well, where, you know, maybe they did trust Rick Spielman to pay Anthony Barr when he came back. But I also think that the Wills were always willing to write the check when it was a player who wants to stay. Oh, this guy who's great. We're going to pay

Harrison Smith, this preposterous contract for a guy his age. Well, that's great. Here's the check. Like, I think that they do get victimized by this well maybe maybe not victimizes the wrong like fall victim to the the cake coming out and seeming um pretty exciting to eat and i think that that's lane kiffin and i think you look at him and think like yeah you know zimmer we couldn't even get him to do a press conference where he could like get anybody excited aside from saying we'll need the fans to come out like thanks mike i just just feel the excitement just streaming through my body but you know someone like lane kiffin though when your organization is being talked about as being kind of a bus fire at the moment what gets people hyped is this super excited kid

i mean this is how the urban meyer gets it's hired or the Matt rule is like, Oh, it's this intriguing college guy. It's like the, you know, the draft pick quarterback. He's so interesting and intriguing and we don't know him. And then, you know, the minute he starts throwing passes and OTAs that all the reporters watching from the Hill know that he's not going to be good and ready to start by week 17 or anything like that. So I do think that the Lane Kiffin thing and exciting candidates is a real thing. It's just that the GM has to make this call. It can't be the Wilf superseding and saying, oh, no, we want Lane Kiffin or we want Doug Peterson.

Sorry, GM, man. This happened when I was in Buffalo with Rex Ryan. The owners ate the cake and they were like, Rex Ryan, he's super exciting. He's going to excite the fan base. And the general manager was like, what? Like, you know what I mean? Like, wait, I don't get to pick who I'm going to work with. I think that that's very important for them to say, you pick who the coach is, Mr. Or Mrs. GM. And so a few things off that one, I think they would do that, which is why I would just caution fans not to get too excited or terrified of any coaching candidates you hear until there's

a GM. Well, it's like I could envision this internal group, including the Wilfs coming up with a name of five coaches and saying to the next GM, like, hey, we interviewed 10. Here's the five we really like, who do you like on this list? Like you can basically decide from these guys that we've already vetted that we already like. So I can see that happening, but don't, you know, get terrified or thrilled about any interviews until there's a GM. Two, I love the dessert comparison. I've many times been the guy at a restaurant, like I'm not a dessert person. And then the dessert menu comes like, well, the cake looks good.

The ice cream looks good. The souffle looks good. Like, what do you guys think? Should we just get them all in chair? And then three, I was contrasting Mike Zimmer, crap it all over his kicker before a preseason game with Lane Kiffin, like get your popcorn ready, get ready for this one. Granted they got smoked in the get your popcorn ready game. But just the different sideline interviews between those two. But that also got me thinking, so Lane Kiffin, obviously an exciting, kind of crazy, kind

of nerve wracking, kind of, maybe this will be brilliant um type of name who is kind of the closest to that from the perspective that's already in the nfl that you think they can seriously consider like kip and i think is that degree in part because he's a college coach and his whole background but is there an nfl coordinator or available coach for either of you who you think comes close to that level of i don't even know what the right word is excitement craziness boldness whatever is there anybody who knows mcveigh that was the a couple of years ago okay so the the funniest the funniest name that got thrown out there very early and has not been anywhere since was pete carroll and was like oh man that would be that would be bleeping ridiculous

you just hire this like 70 year old guy hey guys i'm here everybody like put a basketball let's all have some fun guys let's go out there and run the ball and have some fun. Run the ball? Mike McDaniels, maybe. Who was yours? Oh, McDaniels. Oh, you say Josh McDaniels? I said Josh. I said Mike McDaniels is also, and he's nowhere near the sort of crazy factor as Josh McDaniels. But Mike McDaniels strikes me as kind of an eclectic guy who a lot of people don't know about but would be interesting to cover.

But no, Josh McDaniels's far more dramatic i think because that's probably the correct answer josh mcdaniel's a like fist pumping across um the whole stadium i think it was in denver after like a week to win over the patriots like doing a victory lap i've slayed the dragons we're all fixed i don't even remember when that was. I can just still picture him doing that across the field. And then the other, of course, Josh McDaniels that you'd have to discuss is this guy bailed on the Indianapolis Colts after saying, yes, I'll coach your team. Here's the salary. Here's the term. Let's do this. Let me fly back and gather my belongings and then go back and be like, oh, my God, I can't I can't go to Indianapolis.

I can't do this. So I think I do think he's an interesting candidate because just of the multitude of offenses that he's coached. I think he gets credit for coaching to what his players do well when it's 2007 and, you know, spread everything out with Brady, hit Moss. When you have Cam Newton, you know, they moved to a run first offense. When they have Mac Jones, he's simplified things and brought the best out of Mac Jones. So I think he both is a very intriguing candidate for a lot of legit reasons. And also has some pretty hard questions to answer.

The other one might be a chip Kelly. If you were trying to go back down that road, I don't know that he'll ever be an NFL coach again, but it's not like he had no success early on. He did start out pretty well and has done well at UCLA. Let's do this before we wrap up fellas, Chad, you wrote about the what ifs of the Mike Zimmer era. Here's the question I have about the what ifs because you know obviously this comes up a lot with this team like what what what ifs from the zimmer era matter like if adrian peterson plays in 2014 you're still seven and nine sorry but that's just how it's

gonna go uh if blair makes the field goal do you win maybe um that one's, that one's kind of I guess worth debating, but like, which ones you, because there's a lot of interesting ones. So what if this doesn't happen or they drafted this guy instead of that guy, but what ones would have made the difference between how it turned out and how it did? Well, I think two, you have to look at right away. The obvious one is Teddy Bridgewater. And not because I think that his ceiling was a top five quarterback, but because of the salary components and the fact that he probably would not have demanded, you know, the same 30 plus million dollar fully guaranteed contract that they ended up giving Kirk Cousins does that mean you can do more with the defense that mean you can do more to help with the offensive line does his mobility help make up for a bad offensive line is he able to reset the

pocket a little bit so I think that will forever be the big one hovering over the Zimmer Spielman era but the other one to me is and I don't don't know if this necessarily hovering over the Zimmer-Spielman era. But the other one to me is, and I don't know if this necessarily counts as the Zimmer-Spielman era because it, you know, in this what if ends the Zimmer-Spielman era, but what if in 2019 they either miss the playoffs or more realistically go to New Orleans, get steamrolled by New Orleans, Drew Brees passes all over the yard on them. Mike Zimmer's defense looks washed up and done. And ownership says, we know we have two incredible assistants, one in the front office, one as offensive coordinator that are going to get head jobs, top jobs elsewhere. Do we now consider replacing Rick Spielman with George Payton? And

do we now consider replacing Mike Zimmer with Kevin Stefanski? There's at least thought of doing that at the time. And if you lose 42 to 7 in New Orleans, I think maybe you make that switch. And if you enter 2020 with Kevin Stefanski at coach and George Payton at GM, I think things probably look pretty different right now. Maybe that is not giving Zimmer and Spielman enough credit, but I kind of think they look pretty different with two completely different leaders at the helm right now. Yeah. And they were one step from taking Mac Jones as well. I pointed that out to Eric Eager on, I think it was Tuesday, how close the Vikings were to potentially having a Stefanski, Payton, Mack Jones group sort of leading this franchise. They'd be set up so much better than they are

now. I thought I would just mention too, that I enjoyed your honorable mention. What if Keenum doesn't throw a pick six in the NFC championship game because people forget you're up seven you've got the ball around midfield and that just changed the complexion of the game Matthew and I were sitting next to each other there it completely sucked the momentum from the Viking sideline because they had taken the the crowd which was obviously raucous out of that game and then not only that but I think Keenum got strip-sacked later in the first half when they were down seven, and they were driving.

They were close to the red zone, and they lost the ball again because they just couldn't block anybody on that day. And if the Vikings had played a turnover-free game, I'm a pretty firm believer in the butterfly effect that if those don't happen, I think the game plays out differently, and they might have been in that Super Bowl I think that's that's a legit like kind of in the weeds minutiae one but I think there's some legs to it I think about that pick six way too often um and kind of it I think

is is Case Keenum you live with the great stuff of a gunslinger and you also have to die on some of it and so perhaps that plays a role and you know you got you were fortunate all season basically that a turnover prone quarterback didn't turn the ball over and it all came to roost i think in that nfc championship game but as you mentioned they're at midfield i think worst case scenario they're up 10 nothing after a field go there maybe up 14 nothing um and as you mentioned two drives later they're up 10-0 after a field goal there, maybe up 14-0. And as you mentioned, two drives later, they're down in the red zone again. That was for a complete blowout where they got their asses kicked.

It's not inconceivable that they could have been up 17-7 or something, basically at halftime, and that game is completely different at that point which is just a crazy thing to look back on well the it was almost spooky at the time because we had all talked about the interception that we knew was coming the whole season Zimmer knew it was coming and we knew it was coming because of the throws that Keenan was making and that throw even though I believe someone on the d-line got a finger on it, which may have made an impact on that particular throw, it was still a nutty throw to make. It was just like, it was Farvian for someone without a Farvian arm.

And, you know, there's even a tackle to be made on that play that doesn't get made as, what is it, Patrick Robinson is returning it for a touchdown, that even if they make a tackle and hold them to a field goal, I mean, you could shake off a mistake like that. Like the Vikings in the 2019 game fumbled on the first possession, they held them to a field goal and they shook it off. And then they went on. Um, I think about what if the new Orleans saints threw the ball on third and one, rather than running straight into Linval Joseph and the Minneapolis miracle doesn't happen. And the Vikings lose that football game. I think Zimmer is done after 2018 and it goes in a very different direction

there. The other one I think about all the time is Lamar Jackson's on the board and the Philadelphia Eagles drafted Jalen hurts with supposedly no reason to draft a quarterback. And they picked Jalen hurts and everyone goes, Oh, what are they doing? Are they crazy? And then it turns out, you know, like for all intents and purposes, cousins was on a two year deal. And then there was the third year set up to negotiate a new contract. If you draft a project

freak athlete quarterback, you could be talking about cousins as a bridge to the next guy. And if the next guy stinks, you just stay with cousins. But they weren't playing the 3d chess. It was, well, you know, we need another corner and while we needed to draft an offensive lineman, and there's so many incidents where you felt like if you guys just played it for the best player or the most valuable player, you could draft, look how it would have been different. And even right now, think about this. I mean, if they had drafted Mac Jones or if they had made a legitimate offer for Justin Fields, I mean, we'd be talking about, all right, we're going, you know, you're going into year two. This is the McVay situation where you come from the year two new coach cap space, another first round pick me, you know, all these types of things, but instead it's, well, you know,

the road is a lot harder. Those are the kind of what ifs that I ended up thinking about a lot, Chad. Well, and Justin Herbert was another one. Like there are a lot of quarterbacks who have one coach in year one, doesn't work out and move on to another coach. And the quarterback still has a lot of success. The Minneapolis miracle is one that, you know, you mentioned one of the scenarios.

What if Kai Forbath misses? There are like that game alone has about 10 different what-ifs that all led to the ending that it had. Like what if Williams just doesn't duck his head and miss the tackle? Then like, oh, the Vikings threw a weird little out that never got close to the sideline and they lose that game and who knows what happens to Mike Zimmer at that point.

What if the Demons doesn't blow? What were they up 17-0? 17, yeah. game and who knows what happens to mike zimmer at that point what if the demons doesn't blow what were they up seven 17 nothing 17 or they also kicked a 21 yard field goal too like what if you go for that and score a touchdown right and then the other kind of butterfly effect with lamar is what if you said no to cousins or what if the jets who did offer more money what if he was interested in the jets goes to the jets you say all right we're going to circle back to case um he's not going to cost us as much we don't really think he's a franchise guy forever but we give him a two-year deal and if you have case keenum under contract when your pick rolls around at the end of that draft are you then more enticed to

take a former heisman trophy winner like i think you probably are because you're coming back to Case somewhat reluctantly saying this probably isn't our franchise guy. And, you know, while I do think that Lamar needed the right offense to succeed, like, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that Mike Zimmer, a guy who loves to run the ball, would be diametrically opposed to a running quarterback or an offense that had Lamar Jackson and Dalvin Cook in the backfield. That would be incredibly fun to watch. So I just wonder if you had Keenum, do you think about Lamar a little more? I think you're on the right track there, Chad. And imagine if Keenum had been on the Foles-ian two-year deal

where they could have used Keenum in that next season. Because remember, after Foles won the Super Bowl, they used him again the next year to win another playoff game. Which, I mean, what a luxury for the Eagles to have that for another year and not really have to, you know. And they still had Wentz, obviously, but it was helpful for them in that instance. But I think the overarching what if is like, what if Rick Spielman wasn't so fixated on drafting for need? What if he was more of a BPA guy?

Because then that opens the door to, you know, avoiding Treadwell, avoiding Bradbury, you know, maybe taking Lamar, like looking more openly at the board early in the draft instead of pigeonholing himself, which was usually the way he went. You could almost always predict down to one or two positions where he was going to go. And that led him to, you know, Jeff Gladney. And it also led him to Justin Jefferson, right? Like there are good examples, but for the most part, by limiting himself, I think it's sort of stifled the creativity of

the way they built this roster. In that famous clip where they're watching the Eagles draft, the Eagles don't draft Jefferson. Like, oh my God, get Jefferson on the phone, get Jefferson on the phone. He says, I think we can trade back and get one of these corners. Basically, we all knew going in, if they draft for need, it's wide receiver and cornerback. And I think if you watch that video, you know, oh, well, yeah, they're going to draft wide receiver and cornerback. So I think that was just an example of kind of pigeonholing, hey, these are the two positions we need.

Whenever we are up on the clock or after trading back, we're just going to take whichever of those two positions we like the best. Well, and that's an interesting point, just because usually when we do what-ifs, they usually focus on what if this thing or that thing didn't go wrong. But what if that thing didn't go right? Then Zimmer's probably fired after last year and they win like four or five games.

And this year we're talking all about and we would have spent the entire season just watching every Stefan Diggs play and talking about how great he was and how they drafted this bust Jalen Rager and it would have been Randy Moss for Troy Williamson all over again and uh you know really even if they hire the coach who's at the top of the list, who sees this job as the most favorable, there's one player that makes this job the most favorable. And that is Justin Jefferson. So it's good. It's sort of, you know, this, this era had a lot of things go right for them too. Especially that 2017 season, Aaron Rogers getting hurt,

all those kinds of things to have the opportunities that they had that they came short of. So it's always, it's always interesting to look at that. Well, it's a great piece at the athletic chad super fun to get together with you um we always enjoy the entire season the things that come up in in the media room and i cannot wait how far are we away from golf we'll get around him before the draft. Right around the corner. March 7th last year, Chad, when we played at Stonebrook. March 7th. Lost the ball in a snowbank. Yeah, that happened too.

But it was a good eight-month season last year. I'm crossing my fingers. We'll see. Until then, we'll be watching YouTube videos trying to get better, and it won't help. So, Chad, great stuff. Glad to have you guys to get together, Sam. We will do it again soon,

and we will try to be consistent with our Friday roundtables because I really enjoyed those last year through the offseason. So thanks again, guys, and thanks, everyone, for listening.