Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - The Athletic's Chad Graff talks tight ends, Mike Zimmer's future and whether he'd trade places with the Jaguars

Episode Date: September 3, 2021

Matthew Coller and Chad Graff of The Athletic cover a number of subjects with the "talk me into..." game, including the tight end situation, whether Mike Zimmer could be the last man standing if things don't go well this year, whether you'd trade rosters with the Jaguars right now and whether the special teams will actually be OK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collar here joining me for the show today to play a game of Talk Me Into is Chad Graff. Chad, are you ready for this? I'm so excited. I've never played this game. We're at an exciting point. The season is on the horizon. I don't know. I'm in a good mood and I'm excited for this. Okay, I'm going to start and then you have to talk me into something so you kind of get the lay of the land for how this works and then you ask me to talk you into stuff and then we go from there uh of course it does not have to be stuff that the other person actually believes they're just forced to talk you into it so i am going to ask you to talk me into tyler conklin and chris herndon being

effective tight ends. Talk me into this working for the Vikings with the tight end position. I'm glad we started here. This is an easy one. Last year, I was looking back at this. Tyler Conklin in the last four games was, I think it was 179 receiving yards he put up. If you extrapolate that over a 17- game season, he is on pace to exceed 500 receiving yards for the first time from a Vikings tight end in three years. They haven't had it the

last three seasons. Tyler Conklin is capable of being the Vikings' number one tight end. We move on to Herndon now. So Conklin is going to be just fine on pace for 700 something receiving yards we are golden there we move on to Herndon um naysayers might point out that Herndon struggled to even beat out a bad depth chart with the New York Jets a very bad team that his production has dropped since he had one singular season. Nay, nay, nay. They are making a mistake. What they don't realize is all Chris Herndon needed was a change of scenery.

He's now going to a spot where the Vikings use more multiple tight end formations than any other team in the league. He's going to get ample opportunity. He had a touchdown against the Vikings two years ago. This is a guy who perhaps with a little more work is going to become a better receiving threat than we have seen the last couple of years. His blocking, while maybe not outstanding last season with the Jets, is going to improve in this zone scheme.

Dalvin Cook makes all of his blockers look better than perhaps they actually are. So the Vikings are going to be just fine with this tight end duo of Tyler Conklin and Chris Herndon. I think you did a good job there. Uh, and you really captured the game and how it works, I think, because sometimes you're grinning and saying certain parts of these things. Now, I will say that Tyler Conklin, I think, can play tight he's limited in the number of things he can do. So you're not talking about Tyler Conklin racking up a hundred yard games or running 20 yard in routes or post routes or something that we could have seen Irv Smith doing. The Chris Herndon part is much harder to convince me, especially when he was described as disinterested by the athletic writer from New York. I think that getting counterpoint.

Yeah. Getting the New York Jets. I would be disinterested as well. Now, if it was Adam Gay still coaching them, I would totally give that a little bit of credence. But it's Robert Sala and it's guys from the San Francisco 49ers who know what they're doing and they know tight end. So I can't be talked into Chris Herndon. I can be talked into this might not be a travesty of football from the tight end position, but I think that it's not going to be very effective.

You tried your best to talk me into it. I'm not really buying it when it comes to herndon especially i think that if you're feeling like tyler conklin can fill some shoes of a guy who goes over the middle makes some catches does some blocking let's say out of 30 tight ends who play regularly he's like the 18th best okay that's that's not destroying your offense. The number two tight end, though, is important in this thing. And that, I just don't have much belief that they're going to get a lot out of it. And if they don't, they'll have given away a fourth round pick for it, which also makes you go, that might have been a lot for somebody who

can't really provide you with a whole lot of help. That's fair. Now, I will say my mind was racing when we started this game of all of the various things that I could get you, Matthew Collar, to talk me into. But I think we're going to kind of dip our toe into the water here. I want you to talk me into the Vikings being a top 10 offense. Now, let's start with this.

The Vikings were number 11 in points last year, number 11 the year before that. It is possible they have a new offensive coordinator who has never called plays as we run through the reasons that you'll have to rebut. They lost Irv Smith Jr. They are worse at left tackle. And all of the other skill positions are probably about the same. So talk me into the Vikings offense being a top 10 unit. And before I do that, just to even add on to your point,

I think they have a tougher defensive schedule than they've had in two years. But that's not my job here. Right. You are telling me why they are a top 10 offense. Yes. The reason why they're a top 10 offense is because of Delvin J. Cook. Now, let me see if Delvin Cook's middle name is on the internet. I believe it's James.

Is it really J? Let me look. Delvin Cook. Let's see his Wikipedia if there's actually a middle name here. It is Delvin J. Cook. Okay, beautiful. So I nailed it. Delvin James Cook is still Delvin James Cook.

I mean, he is still one of the top two to four running backs in the NFL. And I think one area where they really made a mistake last year was not being robust enough with the screen game. If you look at two years ago, Delvin Cook averaged almost 10 yards per reception, which for a running back is pretty ridiculous, especially when it's mostly predicated on screens. Last year, there was a really good screen against Green Bay, and that was the only one that I can remember. The previous year under Kevin Stefanski, who we know is close with Clint Kubiak, there was a lot more creativity in the screen game. And I think that it's a low bar to beat with their screen game last year. That's going to be a big deal. Being effective in the running game, I think they still can with this offensive line.

I think it could be legitimately good as a run-blocking offensive line, maybe even better than last year. So I'm going to, well, Dakota Dozier not being a starter, I think it's automatically better from the run blocking perspective and probably pass blocking too. The other part of it is just a Jefferson year two. And I do believe they have more at wide receiver three this year than they had last year. Didi Westbrook has two seasons in which he had 66 catches. So if he comes back even by week two or three, and he is some semblance of what he was, that's another weapon that you can try to make up for

that absence of Irv Smith. And I also think that just anytime you have Kirk cousins, what you have is the ability to be right there in the mix of a good offense. He has never had a horrible offense so long as he's been a quarterback in the NFL. Like he's, he sets a baseline for you as the worst this can possibly do is like 16th, 17th. And the best that can do is probably like eighth, seventh. And I think in that range of outcomes, if you have decent health in the running game, you're going to have, you can be in the top 10. I think that health part is such a big part of it. It's such a top heavy offense that you could really pick any spot. If they have an injury from here out, if Tyler Conklin even gets hurt, obviously you mentioned Dalvin cook, both the receivers,

anybody gets hurt or has to miss any sustained time, they're just not built to overcome that. So that health has to be a big, big factor if they are going to be a top 10 offense. So I picked them on our last episode with Sam as being 16th in the league in offenses. Where do you think that they'll be? I said around 13, 11 the last couple of years. I think they do take a step back just because of injury luck, because the Irv Smith Jr. I think is a big deal, and I think he was somebody that was going to help them move the chains on third downs.

So I think they're probably going to take a step back. I don't know how far it will be, but somewhere in that 13-14 range. Right. When you add it up, what they got out of the tight end position last year, they got a lot. Kyle Rudolph didn't have a great season um but irv smith had a good season tyler conklin contributed like they got a lot out of that position that needs to be made up for and with rashad hill playing left tackle we all think that rashad has a pretty cool career arc of somebody who never expected to start in the

nfl but this, this is a position that was really solid last year. Really good from Riley reef that now you're dropping to, um, a replacement type of player. And, uh, unless Christian Derrissaw can just get ready and be good, which is hard to see that that one's hard to overcome or talk you into, that not having an impact. I want you to talk me into the reason that the Vikings should be very concerned about Cincinnati. Talk me into being worried about Cincinnati in week one. Of course. So Cincinnati, led by Zach Taylor. Who?

As everybody knows, is entering a big year. So, all right, I had to stall. Now I've got my reason why you should be worried about Cincinnati. Joe Burrow is going to come out in this offense. That is going to rely on four wide receivers a lot. They're going to spread you out. It's going to be a lot of perhaps shorter passes and they're going to move the ball downfield in that way. The ovens of wine may not be great. We'll see how that fares, but I don't, I think the Vikings are built. They built this defense to stop the run early. They signed Alvin Tomlinson, have Michael Pierce back. They're going to try to stop the run. Eric Kendricks is outstanding as Adam Zimmer often says, see ball, get ball. They would like to stop the run and force you into third and four, third and five.

They don't care if it's third and short because Mike Zimmer is so good at scheming up third down defenses. My, I think, favorite stat from last season is that the Vikings still had a top 10 third down defense, despite being A, horrible on defense, defense and b having very little talent on defense so is that really a and b or those did you just say the same thing both times same thing a they were horrible and b they were really bad in this specific way they were also really bad uh cincinnati though is not built on establishing the run and then getting things going that way. I think the first two games really could test you because they don't care if you have Dalvin Tomlinson and Michael Pierce. They're not going to run up the A-gap.

They want to spread it out and have Joe Burrow hit T. Higgins. And so I think if there's a question about the Vikings is defense. It's the secondary it's can Patrick Peterson actually revert to 2019 Patrick Peterson, or is he again, going to lead the league in penalties is Bashad Breeland, the guy who the chiefs basically chose not to return because of some of his penalties. I think there are very legit questions in the secondary and the Bengals are going to test you with a very good wide receiver group and a former number one overall pick at quarterback. No, they truly do have good wide receivers. They have some very serious weapons.

And Joe Mixon coming out of the backfield. And we'll get into all the matchups and everything more next week. But if they can pass protect at all, and that's the big question. But the Vikings right now, they have to prove that they can rush the passer at all Daniil Hunter is going to play his first game since January 2019 and Delvin Tomlinson and Michael Pierce are not early down pass rushers they're run stuffers we don't know that DJ Wanham can actually get after the passer in real games we know that they like him a lot but we don't know that he can do that uh and then

you know you have to be in those favorable situations the blitz as we saw last year blitzing can't save all the the thing that i could be talked into here and you tried very hard and i and were effective in saying look they have weapons so they're not just like garbage. I think it's more that like this preseason has just been a lot for everybody. It's been a lot of drama. It's been a lot of hits that they've taken with injuries or say indictments or whatever, just, you know, conflicts. And how do you respond to that? Like, do you respond to that by being sharp and focused in week one? Because if you're not, you can lose. And we saw this last year.

Wasn't it Jacksonville got their only win in week one? So it can absolutely happen. If you come out and you are not completely focused right off the bat, you can lose to another NFL team. And even if you don't have a lot of respect for their roster or you couldn't pick their coach out of a lineup or whatever it might be, it's still NFL players, top draft picks, guys who are talented. And I think this team has to show a lot in terms of what their focus is going to be

after everything that they've dealt with here in preseason and training camp. For sure. I think there are a lot of questions. And there's a reason that the floor of the Viking season, I think could be lower than previous seasons. I think this is a season that could be pretty volatile. I could see a scenario where they win seven games and all of a sudden you're asking hard questions about the people who are in charge or,

and this is where I want to go to with you. I think that they also do I think we both concede have a somewhat of a high ceiling if the defense gets back to a top five level we talked about the offense earlier the pieces are there where they can be pretty good maybe 11 12 wins at that ceiling however I don't know that 11 wins is going to win you the division. The Packers return the MVP, the best wide receiver in football, a very good running back. The defense, I think, will get better with this new scheme.

So having said all of that, I want you to talk me into the Packers taking a step back and maybe being a bit vulnerable in the NFC North. Okay. So here's where I'll start with that. The offensive line of the Packers is not the same. They lost their really good center. They're really good right tackle. Now they've got a shuffle. They've they're moving people around just like the Vikings are now that's been more effective for them than it has been the Vikings in years past. But the level of protection for Aaron Rodgers, I think, is going to dip a little bit. I also think that even though players probably who are veterans would say, look, OTAs, minicamp, none of that matters. But Aaron Rodgers wasn't just not participating. He was vacationing during all of those things.

And I could see a slower start for them if they're not as sharp because he didn't have the full off season and was distracted by a lot of other things during that off season including jeopardy uh so that's possible um they still don't have a number two wide receiver that scares you at all so you're an ankle twist away with Devante Adams from just having bad weapons again sorry Randall Cobb but you're not terrifying at age whatever he is 33 or 34 at this point and I think that more than anything you would just say that when you have this level of drama it drags it really that when they talk about distractions i think we talk about them the wrong way in football sometimes where it's like could tim tebow be a distraction like no not

really i don't think anyone cares about that or this player had an off-field thing happen and most people just mind their own business but when it is tension and a constant tension and we've seen this here then i think that can add up and where you really see it is when something goes wrong so this was like 2018 there was a lot of tension with the team and Mike Zimmer and Norv walking away and so forth and as soon as something went wrong it all went wrong at once and I think that's a possibility for the Packers the other thing is just regression in numbers I mean you have to play road games with fans in the stands now, so that's harder. If you have an MVP season, it's very hard at that age to have another MVP season.

So I think they could drift back from a 13-win team to an 11-win team. I think that takes a lot going wrong for them and a lot going wrong for the Vikings for those two things to meet. But, yeah, of course it's possible for a team that was really good two years in a row to drift back. That's pretty good. Especially since I walked into this room, having just made the Packers as my preseason Superbowl selection, all of a sudden you had me doubting things. I think the Devante Adams part is probably a little under discussed. Like I think he's probably the best wide receiver in football, but to your point, wide receiver two has always been, you know, a sort of mixed bag for

them. And we talk a lot about what happens in Minnesota. If Justin Jefferson gets hurt, or if Dalvin cook gets hurt, what happens in green Bay? If Devante Adams gets hurt, you know, if he stays healthy, obviously that offense is going to be unbelievable it's probably going to be very good even if he weren't there just because you have aaron rogers but we talk so much about depth here i don't know that we necessarily think of it the same way with the packers so let's see who's talking who would okay i'm talking you're talking to me and something now okay i forgot where we were i want you to talking me into something now. Okay, I forgot where we were. I want you to talk me into Mike Zimmer, last man standing between Zimmer, Spielman, and Kirk Cousins.

So we know that if this season has problems, and even if it doesn't have major problems, there could still be changes. We think there's going to be a quarterback change after this year. We have seen some of the roster issues with depth and so forth that has been noted by Mike Zimmer. What would keep Zimmer here but not the other two? So I'm going to paint you a picture of this scenario. Like a Picasso, say. Perhaps a Picasso.

We have arrived in early January. The Vikings have just wrapped up. It is cold outside. Fans are a little bit testy because the season didn't go well. They won, say, six or seven games. And we're left with a lot of questions because while the defense did everything that Mike Zimmer thought it was going to do they stopped the run the third down unit was great Patrick Peterson you know revamped his career and has come out and said this is because of Mike Zimmer I came here and he helped me I want to stay in Minnesota with Mike Zimmer however you only won six or seven games because the offense never really got going. Clint Kubiak, mind you, had just called his first NFL play in Cincinnati.

Never really got in a groove. The screen game with Dalvin Cook was kind of a mess. Cook missed a few games because it's a long season and that happens. Justin Jefferson and Adam Thielen weren't able to stay healthy the whole season. The tight ends turned into a big issue. The offensive line was a mess. And that happens. Justin Jefferson and Adam Thielen weren't able to stay healthy the whole season. The tight ends turned into a big issue. The offensive line was a mess. And the Wolves are sitting in New Jersey, contemplating the season, thinking about what they want to do.

And they look at it and say, the offensive line was bad. The quarterback was bad. The offense was bad, but the defense was very good. Well, how do we go about assigning blame here? Our general manager is the one who selected this offensive line, who chose these players on offense, and that didn't work. And extended the quarterback. And it's time for that to go.

We look at the head coach now. Well, he said he was going to revamp the defense. He said, if you listen to me and build it this way, it will work. So, yes, it was Spielman who signed these contracts, but it was because Zimmer wanted them. So the Wilfs say, yep, Zimmer is coming back. Check that box. Then the last one, they look at the quarterback play and say, we're paying him how much? How many playoff wins do we have? What are we doing? And they say, Mike, we're going to bring you back,

but we want you to have a little more say in the offense, and we want a competition between Kellen Mond and somebody else. You can choose a veteran, or you can choose a quarterback in the first round. You can help us even select your new boss, the general manager, but we are bringing you Mike Zimmer back and not Kirk Cousins and Rick Spielman. Hey everybody, the season is on the way. Fans are going back to stadium. So you have to be ready with the best Minnesota football gear. That's why you have to check out soda stick. I saw a ton of soda stick gear around training camp i expect

to see it in the stadium as well there's so many cool designs on hats t-shirts and hoodies for the fall weather including the john randall design that is extremely cool there's also the straight cash homie randy moss homage can't stop the theelin hats and a personal favorite the old video game designs the tecmo fans will appreciate. Check it all out at SodaStick.com. That is S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K.com. Everything is screen printed here in Minnesota, and I can tell you that the shirts are comfortable and they last because half of my closet is now SodaStick at this point.

Again, that's SodaStick.com minnesota sports inspired goods and keep your eye out for our soda stick giveaways so i i was thinking this is your only path is that they have like a number one defense or top five defense that's fantastic and kirk cousins has the worst year of his career and it's because of k Cousins like it's not because you hired Clint Kubiak necessarily it's because Cousins manipulates people for whatever you know like the personality issues he's yelling at people on the sideline he's throwing interceptions he's fumbling that you could really pinpoint it's the quarterback who did it now last year uh if you were playing the game of clue and you were trying to say who it was in the conservatory and what weapon they used to ruin

the season there were a lot of potential subs suspects right i mean it was mike zimmer's defense was not good yeah there were candlesticks there were robes there were all sorts of things right uh but if it was this year so blatantly clear that cousins was the 23rd ranked quarterback he led the league in turnovers he seemed disinterested he acted like a quarterback who was on his way out now this has kind of happened before um now you have to go way back sort of it reminds me a little bit what we're talking about. It's like the Detroit lions with Scott Mitchell from back in the day where like Mitchell just became disliked by the organization. And he was the guy that everyone pointed to, like, we have a great team, but you did it. Um, and I, I think that is it possible? Like, yeah, I think it is possible. I mean, I'm not entirely talked into it because I think everyone's responsible for how this

goes. If they all win, then the extensions are good for Zimmer and Spielman. And then Kirk gets another extension if they win. And if they don't, you're going to say, let's do the Detroit lions thing. Once again, of like, let's move everybody. Let's just trade the quarterback. Let's get a new GM. Let's get a new coach. Let's take a new direction. But if there's any of the three you're putting odds on as being last man standing, I think it

is Zimmer. Cause that scenario is possible. The other thing I thought of too is like, well, what if they were in the playoff race and doing well, let's say they're like seven and four something having a good season cousins goes out because of covid misses four games they go seven and ten because of it ultimate like remember cam came back from covid last year played poorly not the same like i i'm i'm not saying that uh like you know this is going to happen or anything i'm just saying that like that's realistic that players have missed games because of it then you might say, well, we were sort of done with cousins anyway. We didn't have any other answers at quarterback and the guy you drafted wasn't ready.

But Zimmer, you did a great job coaching the team. Like it's really hard to get there, but I think there's one path to potentially get there. And the last thing that Zimmer does in this scenario is before he goes into his meeting with the Wilfs, he Googles and prints out the headlines from late February, 2018, when he had said at the combine before they signed Kirk cousins, I don't want to spend a ton of money on quarterback and let that harm the rest of the roster. He finds those headlines, prints those out, slides them across the table of the Wilfs and says, just remember, I was, I had my hesitancies on this from the start. Now, with the Vikings, though, there is always another issue, and that tends to be special teams.

Oh. The Vikings are bringing back an aging punter who was not very good last year, an aging long snapper, take that for what it's worth, doesn't really matter, and a kicker at least for now who did not perform all that well in training camp in the preseason. Combine that with the fact that they had the worst punt return in the NFL last year and are bringing back the same punt returner don't kick returns don't really matter quite like they used to so given all of that i want you to talk me into the viking special teams actually being a positive for them this year and not a negative okay i've got this because i might actually think this okay first of all with greg joseph we have no idea whether he'll kick well or not um last year though

they were dead last in field goal percentage so if you are even in the middle of the league at kicking field goals which joseph was before when he kicked for cleveland a couple years ago then that's a massive improvement so that could be way better the punter i don't care about i mean you have to be super bad at punting for it to matter. I mean, you've got to be kicking them backwards for this to matter. I mean, the difference between a mediocre kicker and a poor kicker or punter, I mean, is pretty low. So I don't know. Just go cover it. And the one thing they've got going for them in covering it is they have last year they had so many rookies that were playing key special teams roles.

This year those players have already had a year of experience so they won't have in their coverage units a lot of players who just have no idea where to run they also had training camp last year rookies came in and said oh I've got to learn special teams today like I don't have four months to learn them over the summer they've had that this year and as far the returning, I actually think that Amir Smith-Marset has some juice. He's got some burst, lightness on his feet, quickness, explosiveness, and gutsiness that can make for a good returner. KJ Osborne does not have those things. And I just don't suspect he'll be, if he's part returner early on, he won't be for very long. But I think Smith-Marset's legit in those areas, and he could be a difference maker. So I think there will be, I actually think this,

there will be a much better special teams unit than there was last year. Even if it's not great, middle of the pack will be much better. It's hard to be much worse than they were, which is a fair argument. Correct, correct. Did it work? Are you in? I'm in.

I mean, now the caveat, the counterpoint here is we have not seen how greg joseph is going to react when mike zimmer stares him down after missing a 41 yard field goal in the first half of week one or something like that some kickers are fine with that some crumble uh we shall see there we shall indeed uh okay So I want to make the last couple a little more, a little more light. Yeah. A little more light, but maybe,

yeah, maybe a little more challenging. Okay. Talk me into the Vikings wearing all white on the road. Okay. Yes, of course. Well,

for starters, and everybody knows this all white with white cleats makes you look faster. The Vikings need a skill position players to step up. They have some fast players in Dalvin Cook, Justin Jefferson. You know, let's look at it this way. The Vikings in all white with white cleats and having a mere Smith, Marseille and Kenny Wong will running. I mean, I'm done.

That's all I need to see right there. Could you ask for much? Just the paper trail is what you'll see is Michael Pierce in a all white number 58 Jersey going to look the part, you know, there's some things that you give and take with, but I'll watch Kenny Wong in an all white Jersey for sure. I just like it. Cause they used to do it in the 90s and i thought it looked kind of cool but you tried

really hard there uh okay you give me give me a give me a strange i don't know if this is going to be as fun but what i was thinking about is talk me into this draft class, this current rookie class, turning into a very good unit. Or maybe that would be easier because you can just punt it down the road with people like Kellen Mond and Christian Derrissaw. Talk me into the Vikings getting meaningful contributions from their current rookie class. Okay.

So with the Kellen Mond thing it it never mattered to me like it always was if the guy ever becomes something more than a backup then wow congratulations you hit the lottery but why do people play the lottery because it's not a huge risk and it's a huge reward so let's not worry about that at all but the other parts of it so Derrissaw will get healthy at some point soon and I think we know that Rashad Hill will struggle at some point soon. And when those two lines cross, all of a sudden you're going to need Christian Derrissaw. And he has more physical talent than I think most of the really tackles in the entire NFL in terms of his size, his athleticism.

That's why he's a first round draft pick. So maybe he can handle some edge rushers that they're going to have to face that would be part of it kenny wong woo we were thinking was going to be something here we don't know what but something he's one of the quickest players that i've ever seen up close i mean he really he gets the ball and it's just like at 100 speed right off the bat it's crazy uh when delvin cook thinks you are crazy quick and fast then i think it says something right um smith-marset with the punt and kick returning alone can make a decent contribution chas surratt special teams i think we're gonna have to go there that the special teams unit's

gonna have to be better i can't talk you into like patrick jones or something i really can't i can't do that but i think that if you eventual, if you got eight games out of Christian Derrissaw and he played well, and you got kick returning part returning from Smith-Marset, that was good. You get a single touchdown. That's huge. Kenny Wong Wu comes back and does something, whether he's just like a bit player or third down or something, then at least you're on your way to some contribution for the first year. That's the one that I think can actually make a difference. You're probably going to get something from Darryl Sahil, eventually take over for Rashad Hill.

You'll get a little bit from Amir Smith-Marset. It's hard to say too much because the Vikings are very rarely going to be using four wide receivers. But Wahoo, if he gets healthy, can carve out a role similar to amir abdullah where he's actually playing on third downs and you know he's getting the ball in some screens on third and 12 when they just don't know what else to call and i think he can make a difference in that role um i think it's important to know when to wave the white flag in your argument like with chas surratt and patrick jones but uh you you did have me for a little bit okay uh i want to figure out exactly how i want to phrase this i want this to be the last one

talk me into why the vikings wouldn't or why you wouldn't if you were in some sort of magic land trade full rosters with the Jacksonville Jaguars? Like why you wouldn't like if we were saying, Chad, you can trade the entire Vikings roster for the entire Jaguars roster today. Would you do it? And I talk, talk me into not doing it. I will tell you why you should not do it. If you are the Vikings, doesn't include urban Meyer, by the way. Fair. Yes. me into not doing it. I will tell you why you should not do it. If you are the Vikings, um, doesn't include urban Meyer, by the way, fair. Yes. I almost threw that out. And so, well, your decision maker is picking a running back in the first round, but we're not going to go there

instead. Um, let's look at it this way. The Vikings actually do have some meaningful cap coming off of the books after this year. The defense largely is on one-year contracts. Anthony Barr is an option. Danil Hunter's contract works in a way in which we'll see what happens with him. Patrick Peterson, Bashad Brewin, Xavier Woods, you're going to have some money to spend after all of this. Kirk Cousins' contract is one that I think you can probably find somebody to take if you go in with the expectation of, hey, we're probably not going to get anything back, and we might have to throw in a mid-round pick to make this happen. If you do that, you have tons of cap. You have a second- year quarterback who you chose as a developmental piece and maybe

progressing. Is that Trevor Lawrence? No, but where you do have the Jags beat is basically every other position. You have Dalvin Cook under contract as the best running back in the NFL. You have Justin Jefferson as the best, you know, one of the best contracts in the NFL, where you still have him for two more years on a great, great deal. The pieces are there where I don't think the Vikings have to go into a full rebuild, which is obviously where Jacksonville is now. So you can essentially be a step or two ahead of Jacksonville at the end of this off season. If you're willing to make certain concessions and also understand that you're not going to get out of Kirk Cousins, his contract for free.

You tried really hard. You did not come close to convincing me. You still want Jacksonville's roster, Trevor Lawrence. I mean, it's that simple. Like as much as Justin Jefferson is great and can be a King maker, I'm sure.

And there will be other quarterbacks down the road you're just not getting unless you draft number one you don't get that guy you don't get a guy of the caliber of Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning in terms of his prospect level and I would take the possibilities that come along with Trevor Lawrence over every single player I mean aside from if you were going to give me Patrick Mahomes, almost every other player in the NFL, I would just take the best quarterback prospect and I can figure out their whole rest of it. And I think their coach is a complete joker, but they'll probably win because of Trevor Lawrence. Like I think he's probably that good. Like odds say that

he'll be that good. Um, I would take that over pretty much everything. Like you're talking me into, we'll see that when Xavier Woods comes off the books, like I don't care about any of this. None of this matters. The only case you would have had is that you have to give up Justin Jefferson, but LaVisca Chanel's good. Like there are other good receivers and this guy will make them better. If you were a GM and all the GMs are redrafting, but you have to keep everybody on their current contract. Would Trevor Lawrence go in the top 10, top five? Where do you think he would go? If you were, you have to keep that player on their Congress. You can have my homes at one.

Yeah. He comes in as kind of, you can have Trevor Lawrence at two and he comes on a great rookie deal. Where do you think he would go? My home's price doesn't matter. You just draft my homes. He's the best quarterback in the NFL. It's not, I don't even think it's really that close like yeah rogers and brady um are still

great but in terms of the age fact being factored into it you're taking my homes no one else is even close trevor lawrence might be second i mean you go through all the other players and their ages and what they could give you josh allen maybe but i'm not sure i entirely believe in the one year thing like i'm gonna have to see that longer to go with josh allen gosh i mean justin herbert's pretty good is he as good of a prospect as trevor lawrence no uh russell wilson still young enough you can win with him for sure but bigger contract that's the thing that's why that's why the question that's why that's why the question that's why it's so hard to talk me into it it is amazing that gap between one

and two I think I'd probably go Herbert too but I don't know we've seen a lot of quarterbacks do fine in 12 games their rookie year and then it doesn't translate and then all of a sudden you used up the number two overall pick in your fictional draft on that. So I think Trevor Lawrence would probably go in the top five, maybe three or four or something like that. Okay. I thought of another one, but I don't want to keep you any longer. I want to wrap up here, but just give me a, give me whether you think you could actually do this or not.

If you could talk me into it being a good idea, not to have hired George Payton and Kevin Stefanski after 2019. Do you think that that is possible to talk to any of it? Yeah, of course. Let's see. Um, here's why sticking with Rick Spielman and Mike Zimmer over Kevin Stefanski and George Payton was a good idea. Um, so, okay. This one's tougher. Mikeimmer's defense is incredibly good all you need is a really good offensive coordinator to pair him with which hadn't kevin stefanski this one's tough this one's tough i don't i think the answer is no i'll get back to you on this one i'm gonna come up with something and i'll get back to you on this one i don't have a good answer for that one either

because that would have been the reset button and ultimately if this season doesn't work out great they'll have needed that reset button a couple years ago and there was a tweet from jason fitzgerald from over the cap where i i'm not going to try to pull it up right now but he basically said this team is continuing to try and pry open a window that probably shut. And if they had made those changes then, it would have been completely revamping and going back on that direction, back to square one, only up from there. And instead, you know, we're in a different place. So, Chad, this has been super fun.

Talk Me Into is a wonderful game that we will continue to play forever. So I really appreciate all of your time, and I think you did an excellent job. Thank you for having me.