Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - The Athletic's Daniel Popper talks Jim Harbaugh and Chargers-Vikings

Episode Date: May 24, 2025

Matthew Coller is joined by The Athletic's Daniel Popper for the latest installment of our 'Way-too-early preview' series, this time talking all things Chargers.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Coller here and returning to the show to continue our series of random opponents that the Minnesota Vikings will play at some point this season. Daniel Popper of the Athletic covers the Los Angeles Chargers. Welcome back to the show, Daniel. How are you? Doing great. Thanks for having me.

I got a random question for you to start the show. So go back to 2022. There was a particular head coaching candidate that the Vikings looked at and they flew him in. They had a meeting with him and they decided, you know, just not for us. We're going to instead go with the hot young offensive candidate, Kevin O'Connell, and not the old school grind out victory through running and defense Jim Harbaugh. What do

you think would have happened had the Minnesota Vikings done it differently and hired Jim Harbaugh now that you've had a year of covering him back in the national football? Yeah, it's an interesting question because I do wonder how much he changed after he won the national title and like what kind of monkey that was off his back when he had to be, you know, he's obviously little brother to John, but he was really playing little brother to John. He's obviously won a Super Bowl, you know, achieve the highest

things you can in the game. And I feel like he did like obviously he still wants to win a Superbowl. Like that's like the one thing that he doesn't have in his football life. But I do think there was a certain like sigh of relief when he got a national championship and he could sit at the table with his brother and his dad and be like, yeah, I got one too. So, you know, I wonder how much he's changed since then, because obviously all the stuff came out afterward about the interview with hardbaugh and you hear about that stuff obviously just being

around him. I don't know how much a guy that's over 60 can mature in a couple of years, but you wonder how much that sort of impacted his interview process with the Chargers and how he approached that differently and maybe toning down some certain aspects of his personality when he's in front of ownership and things like that. So I, but I do believe wherever he goes, he's going to win, you know, so obviously the Vikings made the right choice. I don't think there's any question about that, but you know, I think he, he would have come in and he would have been Jim Harbaugh and he is, you know, authentically himself.

Like he is the same guy every single day. And I think the interesting part about it for me was like, you first meet the dude and you're like covering him for the first time and you hear all of this stuff, obviously, like just everyone's reaching out to you. Cause he's been around football for so long that everyone has some kind of connection to Jim Harbaugh. And you start, you know, talking to him and, you know,

going to press conferences and seeing him on the field. And it's like, it feels a little corny. He's flipping sleds with the players and different stuff like that. And you're like, is this real? But then you're around him for eight months and he's doing the same stuff every single day. And you talk to players in the locker room when I was putting together a culture story. And they're like, yeah, we had the same take on it.

Where early on you're like, man, we had the same sort of take on it. We're early on, you're sort of like, this is like a little bit corny. But like, when he's doing it every single day, and he's the same exact person, at a certain point in the process, you realize that it's just him. And it turns from cornyness to just pure authenticity. And I think that's why he connects with players. So I think he would have he would have won there. 100% it would have been a little bit different than how Kevin O'Connell goes about it. But you know, Jim Harbaugh is

different than anybody else, you know, and that's just the reality well, I think where they're very different is really in philosophy, but offensively more than it would be who they are which is odd to say because they are so different in their actual age, but What I see from both of those guys is so much energy all the time, so much enthusiasm all the time. It seems like players enjoy playing for both of these head coaches and that is a major accomplishment in the first place. If you can get guys to enjoy coming to work every single day in the NFL when it's so stressful and it's so difficult and

you have someone that's an Energizer bunny who's beating the drum for 17 straight weeks to keep everybody trying to keep up with their energy. I think there is something to that that permeates an entire organization because you never feel like you can knock Jim Harbaugh down. And the same thing goes with O'Connell where it's been up and down at times, especially when Kirk Cousins got hurt, but the energy, the positivity, it just seems to continue on and on and on. I think that is similar. But what I wonder about is how it would have impacted potentially the Kirk Cousins decision because the Vikings, I mean, they would have taken

over 2022. They switched immediately to Kirk is the guy. He is throwing 700 passes that year out of the shotgun every play. Couldn't be more different than Jim Harbaugh protecting his quarterbacks throughout his history, whether it's Alex Smith, Colin Kaepernick, or now with Justin Herbert, and they ran the football first. This is why you draft O'Marian Hampton in the first round and the Vikings still draft a receiver despite the fact that they have Justin Jefferson and Jordan Addison. So I think there are some fascinating differences of what

it would have looked like philosophically. And I'm curious what you think of the offensive philosophy because it does go a little bit counter to what most offenses are still doing, which is leading with the past first. Yeah, it's interesting because it was tough to really get a pulse on what exactly they they they wanted to be last year. Because they talked a lot about building a running game, but they also talked about,

you know, we'll look at the quarterback and look at what he's capable of doing. And I think, you know, Justin Herbert got injured during training camp and he missed three weeks of training camp with a plantar fascia injury. And then in week two, he had a high ankle sprain against Carolina. And so when they were really putting this thing together and trying to get it to coalesce and trying to figure out what their strengths were, he wasn't on the field. And for the first half of the regular season, you know, he was really limping around on this high ankle sprain. It wasn't really even close to like

healthy until, you know, post-buy week six, basically week seven. And so, you know, they wanted to run the ball, but were they running the ball a little bit more early on to try and protect Justin Herbert? How much of the playbook was actually accessible to them? How much like quarterback movement stuff did they want to do, but didn't weren't able to get to because of Justin Herbert's right ankle. Um, and so that's really what I'm looking at this year. I think you're going to get a much better idea of like what exactly they want to be assuming Justin Herbert stays healthy. They obviously improve the offensive

line a little bit by bringing in Mackay back then they've also added a ton of weapons in the passing game. They drafted two receivers, they drafted a tight end, they brought back Mike Williams, and they've also totally reshaped their running back room. So now you feel like okay, the personnel is at a level where they can kind of do whatever they want. And if Justin Herbert stays healthy, you're going to get a real sense of okay, this is exactly what they want to be. They're

always going to want to run the ball, but they are also very aware of how talented Justin Herbert is. And I think they want to be able to run the ball, but I also think they want to be very explosive. And I think that, you know, sort of goes to what they did here in the passing game. I mean, you go get Ke'Andre Lambert Smith in the fifth round, you know, they had an opportunity there to take an offensive lineman. They went speed receiver, you know, second round picture.

I Harris is going to be able to attack down the field around a Gadsden. Like that's what he does right now is he can run the seam and win contested catch situations. So I think like last year was tough. I don't think they even got close to like being able to open up the whole playbook until the second half of the season. This year, if Herbert can stay healthy, I think we're going to get a much better idea of like, okay, this is exactly what they want to be. And I think it's going to be at the end of the day, some combination of effective run game, play action and then and then push the ball downfield with Justin Herbert's arm. Trey Harris is a guy that if I was one of those fantasy

geniuses, I would be trying to bang the drum on him because it was a really overlooked draft pick. I'm like, oh yeah, this guy Trey Harris, there was nothing particularly sexy about him in the draft. I mean, Mel Kuyper was breaking down Chider Sanders overlooked draft pick. I'm like, oh yeah, this guy, Trey Harris, there was nothing particularly sexy about him in the draft. I mean, Mel Kuyper was breaking down Shadr Sanders with every pick. So who knows what he even thought of Trey Harris, but he was watching NFL Network. That's that's well, that's a choice choice. But there was a I mean, I looked a lot at the wide receivers for the Vikings

because I thought that they would take one and Harris was somebody that I looked at that could be a potential impact player right away, but maybe doesn't have potential to be a wide receiver one but I think that that is budding with this team but let me stick with the philosophy for a second something that I noticed when looking over the numbers from the Chargers for last season was kind of reminded me of the Alex Smith Kansas City Chiefs which is not an insult. Go back and look how many games they won with Alex Smith. The biggest thing was they never turned the ball over with the Kansas City Chiefs and that philosophy. They ran a lot.

They threw a lot of underneath passes and their defense is always ranked high. And that was something for the Chargers. Cause when I look at the personnel from the Chargers defense last year, it's like. Okay. They had the number one defense in the NFL like that's something that you would throw on trivia night because no one would even guess it. It wasn't talked about at all as this monster 2000 Ravens

defense. I think it's because they never had turnovers and when you don't have turnovers, you're always talking long fields for the other team. I think this is always been one of Jim Harbaugh's cheat codes to win in the national football league is not turning the ball over. And let me tie that into the game that the Vikings and chargers will play to Thursday night football game with no real preparation that they get to do.

And I think that those turn into kind of mess fests with turnovers and things like that. Sometimes this, the way they play is an advantage over the Vikings, I think just purely on style from controlling the ball and not turning it over. Look guys, I am just about at the age where I'm starting to notice that hairline fading a little bit.

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I think a big part with Jim Harbaugh, specifically with the Chargers, is he came in and he just raised the floor. Like they like, like the Chargers for so many years while I've been covering them, they've gone into games that they should blow the other team out and they lose those games. And it's like with the schedule that they had last year, if you just beat the teams that you are supposed to beat and you play clean football in those games, you're going to have a chance in December to make the playoffs. And that's what happened.

A big part of it was that they were protecting the football, but there are two sides to this, right? And Justin Herbert is such a perfectionist that when you tell him, this is how I want you to play, like their messaging to him was like, a sack is better than a turnover. Like the turnover is like the worst possible outcome. And sometimes it's okay just to take a sack and we don't want the ball in harm's way. And if we don't turn it over, we're going to be in every single game. Right. The other side of that is, does that take away a little bit of his aggression? If he sees a window that's tight, is he still going to fire it in there the same way? If the philosophy was let it rip, right?

And so I think there was a little bit of that last year where he was so focused on not turning the ball over that it Did keep him in a lot of games, but maybe it affected You know some of his decision-making as far as how aggressive he was being So they you're always trying to strike that balance, you know and and message it in a way We're like, yeah turnovers are really bad But don't take out, you know, and message it in a way where like, yeah, turnovers are really bad, but don't take out, you know, his aggressiveness as a quarterback. And I think striking that balance is going to be really important to him sort of taking that next step in the, in the Harbaugh-Gregoroman environment.

Well, let's talk about Justin Herbert a little bit because I was having some recollections as I was watching the reaction to the playoff loss of the time here with Kirk cousins where when the playoff loss happens, there's a lot of nuance to what happened, why it happened, who you were playing, what the circumstances were, what the makeup of the team is, etc, etc, but not on television. Daniel on television. Justin Herbert is a freaking bum because he lost the playoff game and you know,, he should just quit.

He should just retire and never ever try to pick up a football ever again. I mean, some of the stuff, the way that a lot of these people do their jobs is just, you know, pathetic and shameful when it comes to analyzing quarterbacks. And I think that there's a lot of that with Justin Herbert. I also think that there's sort of like truth or shades of truth within the blazing hot takes that are meant to go viral and everything else.

So where where is the shades of truth and where is the stuff with Justin Herbert where you go? I mean, come on. Like, I think some of it was fair. Like, I think that that was the worst game I've ever seen him play. And it was in a big moment and he made some bad decisions and he threw a ton of picks. And really what was befuddling is he didn't take off and run when he had opportunities and he's getting paid a lot of money.

And at a certain point, you graduate from young developing player to, okay, now it's time to be a franchise quarterback. And when you have these types of games where you're in the playoffs, like you got to show up. That's a big part of it. And he didn't really in that game. And now he's been to the playoffs twice and both games were, you know, relatively embarrassing, right? You had the 27 and nothing loss. And a lot of that was obviously on the defense and they couldn't run the ball, but he missed the touchdown pass to Kenan Allen. That game that would have, you know, stretched the lead to, I think it was 34 nothing or 347

at that point, and you're up 27. Nothing. He had a shot there and he missed the throw, you know, and then you go to the Texans game and obviously throws for interceptions there. Now the nuances, they couldn't protect. I mean, that genuinely was one of the most dominant showings I've ever seen from a defensive line. You know, I've been covering the league for eight, eight, nine years at this point. It was like they had no shot and my biggest takeaway from that game was like,

yeah, absolutely. Justin Herbert has to play better in these big moments, but you also have to protect for him and they just had really no chance on the interior. And on top of that, Joe all and Rashawn Slater played their worst games of the season at the same time. So you had your two real like, you know, actual reliable pieces playing poorly. And then the interior, which struggled off season was, was very poor. And so, you know, you expect a guy getting paid like Justin Herbert with his talent to

be able to overcome it. And that was a big part of the nuance I was trying to find in it was, yeah, the protection was bad. And yeah, that was a big part of the nuance I was trying to find in it was, yeah, the protection was bad. And yeah, that was a big part of why they lost. But in week 16, he faced more pressure against the Broncos and played maybe the best game I've ever seen him play, where he was running and escaping the pocket and making ridiculous Oscar throws. Like it's in there. And that's, you know, the blessing and the curse of being the level of player that he is, is you've shown it. Once you show it, that becomes the expectation. And so I think that was sort of my take from the Texans game. It's like, I know it's in there and because I know it's in

there, I'm going to criticize you a little bit for not reaching that level in the biggest game of the season. One thing is so hard about pressure is that it's really inconsistent from week to week. How anybody deals with it? Just a good example of that is that Sam Darnold had the third highest quarterback rating when pressured in the regular season. I think we know what happened to that in the playoffs, and it was

interesting to see last year in playoffs. I'm sure it's like this throughout NFL history, but it really popped last year that any quarterback who got pressured lost the game in really bad fashion, including Patrick Holmes, Herbert, Sam Darnold, CJ Straulik, all these really good quarterbacks melted down under pressure, which could have been a coincidence or it could be that that's the league even more and more and more on defense because it's so hard to cover wide receivers.

If quarterbacks are getting the ball out, then they're going to be pretty good. But if they start to get pressured, there's not a whole lot you can really do about it at this point, especially with everybody playing zone. It's like they purposefully have these zones behind the pressure and it's much harder, it takes much more patience in the pocket or as you brought up the ability to run away from the pressure, which we see has to be the answer for a

lot of these quarterbacks. And that's where I think of Justin Herbert. The other day, somebody on the show asked the question of like, is JJ McCarthy going to be like a Carl Anthony towns where he's really good, but there are some limitations. And I think of that with somebody like Justin Herbert with great basketball players can just make something happen off the dribble anytime, anywhere, anyhow, that's Jordan, that's Kobe, that's Anthony Edwards.

I don't know if Justin Herbert is that. So what is the answer? Because that doesn't mean you have to lose, right? That we've seen pocket quarterbacks going in and winning in the playoffs and going to the Superbowl. So what is the answer around Justin Herbert to get him to the level he needs to be for them to compete for a Super Bowl. Yeah, so I think first and foremost is shoring up the interior. I don't know if they've done enough.

They signed Mackay back to the free agency and if he stays in the field, he'll be an upgrade at right guard. But right now they're kind of going to run it back at center and left guard. They're going to move Zion Johnson to center and try him out there. Left guard will be Bradley Bozeman, at least right now. And he was the starting left guard center last're going to move Zion Johnson to center and try him out there. Left guard will be Bradley Bozeman at least right now. And he was the starting left guard or center last season, I should say. So it starts there. Got to be able to protect. But I think the other part of it is giving him weapons and they just didn't have anything last year.

I mean, it was lad McConkey and nobody else. And in that Texans game, lad McConkey was getting triple covered and he still had 197 yards. Like he's unbelievable. But a big issue for them last year is you had one guy that could beat man coverage. He was playing in the slot in Lad McConkey and you had nothing on the outside that could threaten defenses at any level of the field, particularly down the field. And so, you know, what they've done this off season is they've made sure that they have

better top level talent on the outside. They have contingency plans on the outside. They have a tight end in Ronday Gadsden who they drafted, who can stretch the seam. And so, you know, giving Herbert more options. So it's not just the Lad McConkie show. So he has more options. And when you do have outside receivers that are threatening defenses vertically, that's obviously going to create more space in the middle of the field for Lad McConkie to operate. When you're stretching the seam,

you're going to give more room for lad McConkey to operate. So I think those are the two things, like in terms of like the infrastructure around him. And I think they've done a good job with the pass catchers. I don't think they did quite enough on the interior, but their hope is that Mackay back then is going to elevate that as a whole. And then as far as Justin Herbert, he's got to show up in big games. Like when you get to the playoffs, you got to show up. And I think that Texans game really showed me that he's got to be willing to use his legs. And it's not necessarily that he has to produce.

It's not like he has to be a 500 yard rusher. But you think about Patrick Mahomes, when everything breaks down and it's third and 12 in a big moment, he is a threat to take off. And if you play man coverage and you're not spying him, or if that spy doesn't get the job done, he's gonna run for 15 yards and get a first time. He's done it a million times against the Chargers. So I think making that a consistent threat in his game,

you know, opens things up and gives him another, you know, option if the protection is breaking down, if things around him aren't perfect. So I think it's infrastructure, but it's also at a certain point, you know, you're being paid like a franchise quarterback and you have to step up in big moments. It just is what it is. Yeah, the thing with playmaking is I feel like it's either in you or it's not like you're not a guy

who just decides, you know what, this year I'm going to do it. Like there was a we went through this with Kirk at times where Fran Targeton, who's still around the team. He talked to Kirk cousins one time. Fran is the all time scrambling quarterback, right? And he talked to Kirk about like, hey, you know, take off and run. And Kirk was slow, but he was fast enough to get eight yards or something on a third and five.

And they would, defenses would just say, go ahead. We're not going to pay any attention to that at all. It was just never in there. Like he didn't think of it in the moment. We're just like, we were video game players going to just run. What are you doing? But I think when you're the real person out there with the football in your hands, some guys are programmed to when things go wrong, it's check down.

And some guys are programmed to when things go wrong, I run. And. And some guys are programmed to when things go wrong, I run. And I actually don't know what JJ McCarthy is going to be in this regard. We're going to find that out. But I think Herbert and Kirk are more in that like, I'm going to have to check it down, which I think doesn't ruin your chances to win. It just has to be a little bit different. And I was going to ask you if you if you believe in stuff like guys who can't win in the playoffs chokers because.

My thing is with playoff history you know you can re engineer it later after you have all the results to be like oh this guy was obviously a choker he didn't play well in the playoffs but there are so many examples of quarterbacks who we declare can't play well in the playoffs and then all of a sudden they do and you like i guess they did it's like you can't play well in the playoffs. And then all of a sudden they do. And you're like, Oh, I guess they did. It's like, you can't until you can. And Matthew Stafford is a good example. I've used Eli Manning, but Matthew Stafford look at his first few playoff games is awful and they lost and they probably had inferior teams and maybe he just was didn't have a great day or whatever the matchup. But that happened. Also the fact that you had to go to Houston, even though the Chargers had more wins.

This has been a drum. I've been banging this week as the NFL slightly considered the correct way to set up the playoffs, but that probably impacted him a little bit. I wonder about those things because it's very hard to find proof of it when you have so many quarterbacks who were declared losers in the playoffs. They can't possibly do it. And then once they do no one ever talks about it anymore. Yeah.

Well, I think it goes back to what we're talking about as far as like is it binary or can you have nuance right? Like I don't think Justin Herbert losing his first two playoff games doesn't mean he's never going to win a playoff game just means he hasn't yet right. Do I think he's capable of doing it? Absolutely, you know? But I think like, on a more like philosophical human level,

like people deal with pressure in different ways, you know? And some people rise to the occasion in those moments. And some people, the pressure overwhelms them. And I think that's true. But I also don't think it's like innate, right? Like it's inherent. Like I think it's something you could learn. I think that as you bank experiences in those big moments,

you can train your mind and body to deal with the pressure more effectively. I think that certainly is something that comes with experience. And I think it applies to like any industry, any job, any walk of life, the more you do things, the more you're in those kinds of environments in those pressure environments. Like if I went and looked at the first deadline story I ever wrote at the

daily news when I was 21 years old, it was probably terrible. Now, if I'm on a tight deadline and I need to write a game or like I can do it, I know I can do it, but that's just reps. That's having 30 minutes to write a story on deadline for a newspaper and doing that over and over and over again. So now you know what to do in those situations. First time I tried to do it, I was, my mind was spinning. I was like, I don't think I can get this done. And it's probably what, like, you know, I, I wouldn't go back and read it. Actually don't go back and read it, but if you did, you know, it'd be terrible. So I think, you know, obviously writing is different than playing football, et cetera, et cetera. So I think, you know, obviously writing is different than playing football, etc, etc.

But I think as you're in these situations more, you can learn to improve in those situations. I don't think just because you haven't done it yet, you know, to me, that doesn't mean you're never going to be able to do it. I think that's definitely true. And it's also what makes somebody like Jaden Daniels a complete freak show that he could show up last year the way that he did and not have that shake him. But there's plenty of quarterbacks. I mean, the most clear example is Peyton Manning, who his early playoff experiences were just horrendous. And I think that he got too anxious,

too nervous, too scared, and did not play like the usual Peyton Manning. And then eventually it clicked for him. But through a good portion of the time where I was in high school, I guess, Peyton Manning was just a big old choker who could only do it in the regular season. Then once he wins a Superbowl, no one ever talks about it again. And I'm not saying that Justin Herbert is Peyton Manning, but even when you've had this from the best quarterbacks of all time, I think we can also apply this to other quarterbacks in the NFL. Now, um, let me ask you about, uh, the stadium. How about this? And one of the more confusing press boxes to get to, and then get out of

because it's built into the ground. So I thought my first time there that I had to go down to leave like every other stadium, but I ended up in the basement with one remaining janitor who was able to inform me of how to get out of the stadium at two o'clock in the morning or whatever it was. That's not really what I wanted to ask about, but that was a very terrifying experience. The fans, I feel like they're coming around to the Chargers. Is that true? Yeah.

Yeah. Chargers. Is that true? Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's tough because you move to a new city. There's not really a built in fan base here, which is, you know, different than the Rams who were here for a long, long time before they moved to St. Louis and came back. And some people did remain fans. You're moving to a city that is kind of a big brother to the city you were playing in before. And so it was always going to be a process as far as building the fan base and getting butts in seats. But since I got to L.A. and started covering the charges in 2019, they were playing in a soccer stadium

at that point. I believe they played the Vikings that year. They did. Yeah. That would be the Foddy Adenovo return fumble for a touchdown game. Right. Right. That was freezing that day. That was the coldest I've ever been in my life. And I live in Minnesota. Yeah. And it was like 95% Vikings fans. Yes.

Completely purple in the stands. Yeah. Since then, it's been steady progress. It has been. It truly has been. And it's gone to the point where like there were a couple games this past year where you're like, OK, like, I think you could actually qualify this as a home field advantage. Now is it us bank? You know, to me, like everyone asks me, what's the best stadium you've been to? Cause I've now been to every NFL stadium. Like that is my pretty much my clear cut number one, both because the stadium is amazing,

but the environment is incredible. Like that's the loudest NFL stadium I've ever been in when they're doing the skull chant, the beginning of the game. Like it's as like a sports, as a sports fan, somebody who's like watched sports my whole life, that's like, you get, you get tingles. This is like, and this is week three, you know? So is it at that level? No, you know, that, that takes decades and decades and decades to build, but they are doing a good job of, of steadily improving the home field advantage where,

you know, early on it was very obviously an advantage for the opponent. Now there are certain games where it's pretty close, you know, and, and, and, and they can really have like something resembling an advantage. Now this year is going to be really interesting because you have a bunch of these NFC teams coming in to LA that might play the, might play the Rams, but this is really the one time in eight years they're that might play the, might play the Rams, but this is really the one time in eight years they're going to play the chargers at SoFi. You've got Washington coming in, you've got Philly coming in, obviously Minnesota coming in. What are those going

to look like? Where it's the novelty of the game is pretty high and you know, some colder cities, right? Get an opportunity to come to LA, get some sunshine, right? Like those are going to be big tests as far as where they're at. But I think there's momentum. I truly do. And it's it's it's come a long way since, you know, the Vikings played the Chargers in that soccer stadium in 2019. The thing that I noticed and what and what a day it was.

Mike Boone had a big day running the football. The thing the thing that I noticed that hey, you know what that was a day though. I'll tell you that was a day where now I always respected Philip Rivers who would not respect Philip Rivers like ultimate competitor franchise quarterback. If you draft a quarterback and he becomes Philip Rivers, I mean you have done a hell of a job there, but there was two things that happened in that game that made me not just like him, but love

Philip Rivers. One was that the Chargers played pretty tight in the beginning of that game and then got down badly after the return for touchdown and stuff and he just kept throwing it. He did not care about his stats. He didn't care about his numbers. He didn't care how many picks. I think he threw five picks in

the game or four picks in the game. Every one of them was just like, uh, I got to get us back in this game somehow interception. And I thought that's pretty cool. Like this guy could easily stat pad right now for his career numbers. Make sure that rating stays. Okay for this season did not care about like the anti Aaron Rodgers that yeah, I mean mean truly like we saw and this was a long time criticism of Kirk cousins where no, they would be down 21 points and they'd end up losing the game by seven and they would slowly and methodically throw eight to ten

yard passes and the completion percentage was 72% or 348 yards, but you were never even really close in the game. That was not Philip River. So I loved watching that. The other thing was to after the game, I was standing that soccer stadium was preposterous for an NFL team. That's a great word. So that's a perfect word.

What are we doing here? We had to walk like a long way to this auxiliary locker room thing through the through the tennis court. Yes, through the tennis court. Right. But think about like how much effort it would take a Chargers player to come over and greet a Vikings player in this completely silly situation. So I was standing outside of the Vikings locker room, I think waiting

for somebody to come out that I wanted to talk to and Philip Rivers came up and it was just me and him standing there. And I was like, hello,. Rivers. Like, I don't know what either of us are doing here. And so he grabbed somebody and asked if Garrett Bradbury was still in the locker room because he went to North Carolina state. And so they went back inside and got Garrett and I was just like, do I move? Am I like, am I, so I'll just stand here and see what happens and observer, man. That's journalism. Right. I mean, like no one told me to like go away.

So I was like, I'm just going to stand here. And Philip not only like greeted him, told him good luck and all that stuff, but also gave him a signed jersey too. So he he had to stand there for a while just with me waiting for someone to go back in in that mess. Garrett Bradbury bring him back out it was probably like 10-15 minutes after the game he's got 14 kids to get to like that I just thought that was like the like a really class thing to do that was not easy he could have just easily been like oh hey just send him a jersey it's fine or whatever but to actually make that extra effort

I thought like that's a really cool thing for someone who is a borderline Hall of Fame NFL quarterback for 15 years to do for a rookie who was just coming into the league. Yeah, Philip was Philip was awesome. I really view it as a privilege that I got to cover his last season with the Chargers and I didn't go well. But you know, the one thing I did learn covering Philip Rivers and digging into him and writing about him and talking to people that knew him, his idol was Brett Favre, which makes so much sense. I'd never pieced that together, but when I heard that, I think Eric Weddle told me that,

that he would like talk about Brett Favre a lot. And it makes so much sense when you think about how Philip played. And he was the ultimate gunslinger. Like his thought was like, I don't care how many picks I throw. Like, I'm not going to stop trying to win. I'm not going to stop trying to do everything I can. Eventually it was his downfall with the Chargers. He threw way too many picks that season and it was time to move on when his arms started going a little bit. He never had the strongest arm anyway. He was always an anticipation guy. But you got to respect it. I'll always always remember played his last game, um, against the chiefs in Kansas city. And he had developed the relationship with this chiefs fan because back in his early

years he and Charlie Whitehurst had gone to Oklahoma. It was then called Oklahoma Joe's. It's a barbecue place and a grocery store and a gas station. I should say they do the Z man, which is like a famous barbecue sandwich in Kansas City. And he and Charlie Whitehurst got there and there was a huge line. They were going to wait. But then he and Philip decided like, yeah, the line's too long. And they got out of there. And this fan had seen them get in line and leave.

And so the fan and this was probably like 2004 or something in Kansas City was chirping at Philip being like, you got to wait in line like the rest of us. Okay. And Philip then had a relationship with this guy. Like they talked, they went back and forth. And then every year when you come to Kansas City, this guy would be in the front row chirping at Philip and 15 years they had this relationship. He plays his last game. At that point, it was still an unknown if he was going to come back or not, but the writing was on the wall. It was probably going to be his last game and I charged his uniform. He takes his gloves over to the sideline and to the stands and gives his game worn gloves to this Chiefs fan that he'd been bantering with for 15

years. And like, that's just a guy that gets it, right? He gets what football is all about, the community aspect of it. Yeah, he was a crap talker, but it was always for the right reasons and in good faith. And that to me was like a perfect example of what Philip Rivers was as a human being, obviously, but as a player too. He just got what it meant. He got what the NFL meant and he understood it. And I felt like in that moment, like to give, like you'd probably want those gloves. It's the last gloves you ever wore. Instead, he gives them to an opposing fan that he had developed this amazing relationship with over 15 years. So that is really cool.

And, you know, with Rivers, just even from the outside, I mean, I think he always seemed like an authentic person. But when we have little things like that that we get to see like, yeah, that's right, because, you know, that's not always the case with every player. The outside perception is not always true. And I think in this case, it is. That's that's a really cool story. I don't know how we got here.

Oh, yeah, I was talking about how stupid that soccer stadium was. Yeah, that's that. Just going back, though, to your point about, you know, the snowbirds or, you know, people who want to get a weekend in L.A. The problem is, it's not on the weekend. And on the last Thursday night that I was in LA at that stadium, actually second time I found my way out of the stadium pretty well for those concerned.

But it actually was not a Viking takeover of that Rams game. And I think the Vikings were actually surprised. They went into the game thinking, oh, our fans are gonna, it's gonna be 80% Viking fans or whatever. And at the beginning of the game thinking all our fans are going to it's going to be 80% Viking fans or whatever and at the beginning of the game it was and then people arrived from the LA traffic and suddenly it was more like 65 35% and

I think the Chargers as exciting of a team as this is might not be as willing on a national TV game to give away their tickets, which leads me to the last thing that I wanted to ask you which is about the expectations here because Kansas City is still Kansas City. They will always be Kansas City as long as Patrick Mahomes is their quarterback. But there has been no time that they have felt as vulnerable as they feel right now, which is hilarious to say because they won 15 games lost one kind of on purpose at the end because it didn't matter and then went to the Super Bowl and yet that is still how I feel about the Kansas City Chiefs.

It's a little bit Golden State Warriors ish where the guy is still the guy but everything around him is pretty rickety. Do the Chargers feel like they can overtake Kansas City this year? I mean, it's possible, right? Like anything's possible. I did my record prediction and schedule release stuff and I'm like, Chiefs have won nine straight division titles. Nine. And until they lose a division, I'll be picking them to finish first. I'm just, I'm not going to be that idiot. I did it one year and I was like, never again. Now, when it comes to chargers against chiefs, chiefs have won

seven straight against the chargers. And what it comes down to is one thing. You got to make plays in crunch time. And the quarterback that the chiefs have, he does it every time. I mean, every time there's a play to be made in a big moment, he makes it. And so if the chargers do want to get over that hump and win a game against the Chiefs, they're going to have to find a way to make a play late. And it happened in both the games last year.

I mean, it was 10-10 early fourth quarter. They had a fourth and one from the three yard line and they get beat by Chris Jones and Herbert gets pressured, throws it away. There's a hold on the guy on Sam Mustapher who Chris Jones beat. And then Mahomes makes a play on a fourth quarter drive hitting Noah Gray over the middle with some insane acrobatic off-platform throw. And that was it. They won 17-10. Second game of the season, Chiefs driving down, charges on a third down. Deion Henley, their linebacker, has a chance to sack Mahomes, misses the tackle, he hits Kelsey, and then they doink the field goal in. So it feels like this version of the Chiefs is doing a lot of

that. It was a lot of one-score games and Houdini acts and stuff like that. But some of it's skill. Some of it is the fact that this guy, they have a quarterback is like the best guy in the league right now at making those plays in important moments. And if the chargers want to get over the hump against the cheese, it's going to come down to in the, in the matchups, it's going to come down to who, who here is going to make that play in crunch time the same way Mahomes has done to them over

and over and over again since he took over as starting quarterback for the Chiefs. I mean, I think all those games are what did you say seven wins in a row by eight points total is that every all must TV. I think this is a year where the Chargers do have a chance to break through. Of course, they are the Chiefs until they're not.

But in terms of the roster strength, I think that the Chargers have an overall much, is it much? I think much is fair to say a much stronger roster from top to bottom than the Kansas City Chiefs. It's just about that guy. Okay, before we wrap up, what do you want to know from me? What do you want to know about this matchup? Because you know, you got to prepare.

It's like four months away. You got to start getting ready. So what would you like to know about Vikings and Chargers? What's the vibe with JJ? Like what? I guess a better question, better way to frame is what are your personal expectations for him? So yeah, the vibe is unlike anything I've seen since I've covered this team,

because JJ McCarthy represents something beyond just, hey, he's an unproven, interesting quarterback who's going to be talked about. And there's nothing more interesting in pro sports than a quarterback who hasn't played yet. Like that's just, it's just a fascination from every single person. What's he going to be? What's it going to look like? And then even following that of what is he really through the first year. So now it's every OTA, every mini camp people, what does he look like? Well, how's it going?

Well, they want to, you know, here is, are there signs of greatness in this quarterback, but you also have to consider, so we were just talking about Phillip Rivers, this franchise is Phillip Rivers played in the sixties and seventies and Fran Tarkenton since then they have not had that they've had So we were just talking about Philip Rivers this franchise is Philip Rivers played in the 60s and 70s in Fran Tarkenton since then they have not had that they've had little spurts little bursts Tommy Kramer Dante Culpepper Teddy Bridgewater for a minute where the fan base could say we found our guy I mean, yeah The Chargers like Dan Fouts and then not that long later if you're like an older Chargers fan

You've had great quarterback play your whole life. Or, you know, we deal with this with the Packers, right? They've never not had a franchise quarterback. But the Vikings, it's always been rent a quarterbacks having good years. This is the guy, not only that, but also we've seen it, the Eagles, the 49ers, the Rams with early Jared Goff, the rookie quarterback contract hack,

which the Chargers found some way to fumble that ball right out of the back of the end zone. But I'm, you know, there's a better coach here than there was then. And there's also a really, really strong roster and they took full advantage of it in this off season. So this has all the markers of you can be San Francisco, you can be Philly, but the guy has to be the guy. And my personal feeling on JJ McCarthy from seeing training camp last year was that his actual physical talent was vastly overlooked in the draft discussion, because I think he was used so little by Jim Harbaugh as a passer that you just didn't see it a lot like the actual arm strength that he had the playmaking ability that he has.

And once he got into an O'Connell you're gonna be. Four wide receivers in the shotgun the dude balls in your hands go make a play. the dude balls in your hands, go make a play. He was comfortable in that environment. And I made the joke, which I made this on a national show at one point, and then they aggregated it and then everyone was mad. But I joked that they told us we were getting Matt Hasselback, but we're getting John Elway. And of course, they're like, do you need the next John Elway?

You know all that stuff. But my point was just he was presented as this kind of always going to be like a game manager. But he's great guy. And what I saw was a lot more athleticism and arm talent than it was presented as. So I think the ceiling is higher than the expectation based on his college statistics. But that doesn't mean anything until they actually start playing games. But I was really really impressed with the way he handled himself last year. And now he's come back and is sort of doing the same stuff already.

And we're going to start seeing OTAs in mini camp. But just those little hints you get like the owner the other day saying he has a gravitational pull as a leader. And I'm like, that's actually a great description because you see it out there. I'm sure you see it with Herbert. Maybe McCarthy is a little more natural with that. But like a guy, when you know, that's actually a great description because you see it out there. I'm sure you see it with Herbert. Maybe McCarthy is a little more natural with that. But like a guy, when you know he's the dude, everybody just kind of gravitates to that person. So there's a lot of really good signs and signals.

But that's why they play the games, Daniel Popper. I think I think the kids call that aura, by the way. Yeah, I saw that I saw Hal Burton say that after me having childhood nightmares growing up loving the Knicks and having Reggie Miller do the choke. I don't want to talk about it. I grew up. I grew up outside New York City and that was a that was a rough one last night. How I knew I was going to have I let it turn to my wife and I was like Hal Burton's going to take this ball and hit a three right in our eye. It wasn't in the garden, though.

It would have been different if it was in the garden. I think the Knicks can recover from this if it was in the garden and he know that was a home game. Oh, it was in the garden. That was an MSG. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. OK. OK. Never mind. You're not recovering. That's terrible. It's bad. OK. Really bad. I was I was at the Minnesota links game last night, so I didn't see it.

I just saw the highlight. But yeah, that's too bad. How old were you when Miller did it? So like 90. Oh, man, I was I mean, like. I'm trying to think what was that early odds like, oh. Oh, that would have been it would have been in the 90s for sure. Like 90. I think it was like 96.

OK, I was not I was born 93. Let me look. Yeah, it was sometime in that era. I was not I was born 93. Let me look. Yeah, it was sometime in that era. I was not I was not old enough to remember it. Like, I remember I remember Reggie Miller, but I don't remember like the. Oh, ninety four. Like, yeah. So you were one. Yeah. Ninety four.

When he hit like, yeah, you know, he scored like eight, like what? Eight points in a second or something. Yeah. Yeah. And Starks missed the two free throws. So I was I was eight. And so imagine, you know, like eight is when you first start to understand what's happening on a sports thing. Like when you're four or something, you're like, yes, my dad loves sports and me too, or whatever.

But that was like my first playoffs. So not only did Reggie Miller do that But then they get to the NBA finals and the OJ Simpson chase is all happening kind of the first Memories of me with the you know sports in New York Knicks So that was a lot that was a lot to get hit with when I got home and dialed up what happened in the game I think scale no, so anyway, not good. We'll see what not good. We'll see what happens I we've got bigger problems with the Wolves and OKC anyway here. So anyway, well, Daniel Popper, the best on the Los Angeles Chargers.

I really appreciate your time. What a May freaking preview. Am I right? I mean, oh, yeah, you can't do it better than that in May. So thank you so much. And a little and a little Philip Rivers anecdote. I know. Yeah.

So we'll do it again You know what October or whatever that game is? Sounds good. Thanks for having me great catching up