Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - The Athletic's Kalyn Kahler talks Vikings and the wild Mike White saga

Episode Date: November 28, 2022

Matthew Coller is joined by Athletic writer Kalyn Kahler to discuss the Vikings' emergence as a contender and how they compare to the other NFC teams, plus what she thinks of the Bears' future and how Mike White is suddenly a very interesting opponent for the Vikings Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Purple Insider is presented by Liquid Death, delicious water that's bringing death to plastic. Learn more at liquiddeath.com slash insider. Hello, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here and joining me. I've made the joke before that every time she comes on the show, she has a different job title. So I don't know, Kaylin Kaler, if you've been on the show since joining The Athletic, but here you are. What's going on?

I don't think I have been, but honestly, I lost lost track it's been like maybe like two and a half months um yeah it's going well i'm now at the athletic um covering the nfl doing kind of the same thing um just at a different subscription site so if you haven't subscribed to the athletic you should do that it was mmqb and it was bleach report and it was defector and now it's athletic but all high quality publications so i'm very happy for you uh in joining the athletic but one thing that you've been working on that uh has really captivated me personally and fits very well with our brand here is your qb2 project where you've interviewed many a backup quarterback and i think that we talked about this maybe right before the season that you were is your QB2 project where you've interviewed many a backup quarterback. And I think that we talked about this maybe right before the season that you were doing these interviews with backup quarterbacks

and you were really looking deep into the QB2s. Not so much the QB3s who have had very little luck this year. But what a year for you. Every quarterback seems to be getting hurt, even Aaron Rodgers last night and Jordan Love coming in I know it's been it's been crazy and like I'd like to some at some point like look at the stats because last year there was also kind of a run of quarterback injuries and can't remember about the year before that 2020 but I do think like this just happens every year and I don't know that even if I don't I don't even know if like this year would be an anomaly,

but it would be interesting to go and year by year and see, okay, which, which starters got hurt or benched and you know, how many backups started games or saw action and then compare it year over year, because I honestly have no idea if this year has seen more of it or not. I really like don't have a sense of that because I know last year it felt like last year felt like this year now, like, well maybe this is just every year now.

Like, I don't know. So it'd be interesting to look at the data, but I haven't actually done that. There does seem to be more. It feels that way. I, you're like you said,

I mean, I don't know because I tweeted that at you and you're kind of like, well, remember this guy, this guy, this guy, and this guy got hurt last year. Like, okay, I mean, I don't know because I tweeted that at you and you're kind of like, well, remember this guy, this guy, this guy, and this guy got hurt last year. Like, okay, touche. But even Aaron Rodgers going out last night and I mean, the Mike White story is what we're going to get into. And I have also ranked the top back storylines of the year.

But I want to ask you first about your thoughts on our hometown Minnesota Vikings here as a whoop. My computer just fell down as a an NFC North aficionado. As you are, you what grew up in Wisconsin, right? And then are a Bears fan. So you have tracked the NFC North for a very long time. Your thoughts on the nine and two Vikings. Look, I mean, you know, I think we're all still, you know, the big question, are the Vikings good?

And I think it's kind of become a funny sort of like joke of the season now. And I would say, I mean, personally, yes, I think they're good. I mean, I think they're a lot better than last season, obviously. And they are the top of the NFC North. And that's really what matters. There's hardly any competition for them within the division, which is certainly something I did not see playing out this season. I thought the Packers would definitely at least be up there, you know, in competition with them. But they've got a really healthy healthy lead there um so you know i think they will obviously uh make the postseason and i think the difficult part

about it is you know the nfc i don't see them in the same tier as the eagles the cowboys and even the niners like i feel like that's kind of the top tier of the NFC. And right now I don't see the Vikings in that top tier. I think they're like right below it. But anything can happen in the playoffs. So, you know, we'll see. We'll see. But I do think the Niners, like right now, I feel really into the Niners and the kind of postseason run that they could make.

So I kind of see them as like being a little bit, having an edge over the Vikings. But I mean, it's been really fun to see like personality from Kirk Cousins and also just like, you know, winning and, you know, Justin Jefferson freaking insane, obviously. So they're there they have been a really fun team to watch yeah i think that that's really the biggest thing is there's a

conversation about where they rank in a lot of statistical categories and how this is going to play out when you get to the playoffs but then sort of a way that we've been looking at on the show is kind of a ride the wave for fans because this has been a really entertaining year for them. And even the last time they were in the playoffs, 2019, it was sort of a pit of misery for most of that season. It was like Stefan dig saying there's truth to all rumors. So he wanted to be traded. There was still a lot of Mike Zimmer and Kirk cousins tension. And then every big game that they faced, they fell apart that year. So then when they got to the playoffs, even winning in the playoffs was, I think, surprising even to people in the organization because they had come apart so

many times. But this year they go to Buffalo, find a way to get a win and then legitimately earn the win against New England where their offense really drove their success and just to Jefferson. And with the Jefferson stuff, it's like, is he better than Randy Moss? Is he not? It's like, maybe just enjoy what you have here because there are very few times you ever get to see a player like this in his absolute prime. So I don't really know. I mean, I think that I would put those teams that you mentioned ahead of the Vikings. San Francisco is a little dodgy, but I think that they are ahead with Jimmy Garoppolo, but the Vikings are definitely better than the Jimmy Garoppolo, but they're, the Vikings are definitely better than the other tier of teams, which is your Seattle,

your New York giants. So you kind of are like in the dead middle of the playoff race. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would say, yeah, I think I would agree that I think the Vikings have the hedge with the giants. Um, cause I would would honestly i think i'd rather have kirk than daniel jones um as my quarterback so yeah i think i think but yeah giants would be right under there seahawks definitely as well um buccaneers um down below that uh it'll be interesting and like even like the commanders i mean i'm sure we'll get to that later uh because that's i'm assuming that's probably one of your backup storylines but i mean they i don't think they're gonna make it to the postseason but they they are still alive

and they are still kind of kicking down there at the bottom in a very competitive division. So that'll be interesting to see what happens to them. The Taylor Heineke story. And it is funny that like the only game that they lost was against the Vikings recently. And they were winning in that game in the fourth quarter. I mean, I do think that their defense is legit. It's just always kind of the question of how far you can ride a defense but you mentioned last year in the playoffs and I think that there's less confidence going into the playoffs about what we know about teams than maybe ever because of the way that things are

structured now with only one team getting that by it feels more random and when you look at last year it's a pair of four seeds going to the Superbowl. So if you're the Vikings and we're saying like, well, when you, it feels like you're a tier below that, that doesn't mean that you can't beat those teams because of how weird, like think about Dallas getting beaten by the 49ers. There's a punt block in green Bay that costs the green Bay Packers there. And it just, this year, when you look at point differentials and how many close games there have been, even yesterday, what pure madness that entire day was with the Jaguars coming back. It just feels like this year we really have no command over what's going to happen.

Right. And I'm not going to get this stat right, but I don't remember how many one-score games the Vikings were in last year that they lost. But they've come out on the other side of that this year and so it seems like and i mean the buffalo game and as a great example of the the luck factor being on minnesota's side it seems like more this year than it has been last year so i mean that those types of plays as you just mentioned um you know the Dallas Niners game last year which was the most insane ending ever because the players all together collectively forgot that they cannot spot the ball themselves and then the clock ran out so like I mean that kind of stuff is is what matters in the postseason where the teams are so close in skill level and talent.

So really anything can happen. And so I think it really comes down to like how well coached you are in the postseason. And I think one thing, I think the NFC is definitely a little bit more wide open. I mean, not more wide open, like the AFC, when you look at the AFC, what will probably be the

postseason field it's just like all the teams are so good whereas I feel like in the NFC it's a little bit more uh like the teams are closer together uh and there's less like elite elite teams in the NFC than there is in the AFC so I do think that kind of leaves more room for a team like the Vikings or a team like the Giants that is kind of in the second or third tier. Yeah. There's really only three or four teams in the entire NFC that could go over and play in the AFC. That's how bad it is. I wanted to ask you too, before we get into some of the Mike White and the backup quarterback stuff about the Bears and Justin Fields and what your takeaway is there because I mean the Bears could very well sit

Justin Fields the rest of the year and get the number two overall draft pick I mean it could really be uh if they just lose the rest of the way with former Viking Trevor Simeon every former Viking is played this year the backup quarterbacks Teddy He Teddy Heineke, uh, Keenum almost did, but we'll also have that on my list. Right. But, uh, I guess I wonder where you feel like that organization is because it seems like just the four games of Justin Fields where he realized, Oh, I am very fast. Uh, that that almost is a victory for the bears for their entire season yeah i think justin has definitely done enough like i don't think um i don't think he or they the coaching staff should feel like they need to like push him and rush him out there again like

i think they should definitely take their time with his what was it dislocated left shoulder i don't remember the specifics of the injury yeah i mean they should definitely take their time with his what was it dislocated left shoulder i don't remember the specifics of the injury yeah i mean they should definitely take their time and let him get better from that and um you know if he can play again in three weeks i i guess you can send him back out there but uh you know just so you can keep learning and working through some kinks because i do think he was still he's still in that development phase for sure. Cause we saw him, you know, pretty much improving every week. And, you know, it's interesting because, so I, first I think he's done enough this season. I don't think he needs to come back out there and like, you know,

I think the coaching staff knows, okay, yeah, we've got a, we've got our quarterback here. Like this is, this is our quarterback for, for you know the future the near future whatever you want to call it like i think he's done enough improving himself um in a way that he didn't do last year so that's really fun and exciting to see that and like we've been seeing his development um but i think the one thing that like so worries me about him is you look at some of the you you know, there's, everyone's like, oh, they need to improve the offensive line. And they certainly do. But he also just like, doesn't some, a lot of it is on him. And like, yes, he should be leaning on, he should be using his speed. Absolutely. But he's leaning on it too much because he's not getting rid of the ball. Like even on like a screen pass he'll be slow

to get rid of it and he'll just like opt to scramble instead and everyone's like oh the offensive line isn't helping him but i mean what are they supposed to do in that situation um and there's several plays like that every game where you're like come on like dump it off it's right there the running back's open um so i think that's an area he still needs to grow in so like if he does you know get his shoulder does get better like i could see like him coming back just continuing to work on that stuff like the timing and the trust and um the players that he's playing with uh but yeah i mean i don't know I would not I certainly would not rush him back and in any way it really feels like also three years is what you need for every young quarterback that the first

season totally throw that out the window with almost everyone like the all-time examples are like Trey Aikman Peyton Manning those guys weren't really very good in their first seasons right second season I looked at this that even through two years, overall the stats don't really tell the story because even Matthew Stafford and Eli Manning were pretty rough through their first two years. Josh Allen is another example of that. And then year three is when it really started to take off.

Not everybody could be Patrick Mahomes that's like MVP level right away when they come in in year two. And I think what we've seen it from Fields, Not everybody could be Patrick Mahomes that's like MVP level right away when they come in in year two. And I think what we've seen it from fields that they can have a lot of confidence that he can at least win games. And he's done enough to win games. They're just horrific on defense. And when you trade away all your best players, I mean, you're probably not going to succeed there. But if they stay at the top of the draft, it makes a lot of sense to get whoever the best pass rusher is. I think Will Anderson from Alabama is probably a guy that they're going to be looking at.

Not that I'm into draft season yet, but I've just seen him play a few times and been like, he seems good. So I feel like the Bears are in that golden position of, you know who your quarterback is and your salary cap situation is right. And even though they are at the bottom of the league, they could spend like no money right now. Right. They could spend a ton next year in the off season and then be a completely

different football team. Yeah. I mean, I know we're down the road here and you know, the more important things are the playoff race for the Vikings in our world. But it's one of those things that's really interesting to me because these two organizations took two different paths. The Vikings decided, Hey, we're going to try to win and the bears said hey we're absolutely going to try not to win and uh it's it's all worked for them it's like they have their

quarterback they have their salary cap situation and now they're kind of good to take that trajectory of many other teams that have built around a rookie quarterback contract. Yeah, it's certainly a looking forward to next year scenario for sure. And I don't know, you might be underselling Trevor Simien a little bit. They could win some games with him. So I'm just going to say he won. I do think he went 0-4 last. So, uh, if I remember right. So, so it might be, it might be a big ask, especially with that defense right now, but, uh, yeah, you know, we'll see. We'll see what happens. Didn't Trevor Simeon go nine and seven

with Gary. I mean, does that, does that not how great gary kubiak is at his job yeah that he had a winning record with trevor simeon yeah come on no no wonder they gave him an ipad at the ranch to dial up the first 15 plays last right right i am a little disappointed we didn't get to see nathan peterman though because uh i i was like like that was weird like oh trevor's not playing nathan peterman's like oh no no trevor's fine he's gonna play and i was like oh my god nathan peterman let's go because i mean i i haven't requested an interview with him but he fascinates me because it's like how do you like be known for anything other than throwing? Was it five or four? It's five,

right? It was five. Yeah. Then throwing five interceptions in one game. Like, where do you go from there? Uh, interesting.

I would love to ask him about that and like how he like rebuilds his, uh, identity. Usually you go to the USFL. Yeah. I mean, I don't know how he's still in the league. I mean,

it really is remarkable. And I mean, there's gotta be a lot of USFL quarterbacks who are like, what? That guy has a job. But also again, your show is not QB three for a reason, because once you get to the QB three, it gets pretty dark and that's where Nathan Peterman shows up. But I mean, it's funny, like you look at Nathan Peterman or someone like Jake from, it would be really fascinating to talk to quarterbacks who played once or twice and were absolutely horrendous. Like remember Ben DiNucci, like, Oh, they're starting this exciting young player, Ben DiNucci. And it was like the worst thing you've ever seen. Like,

Oh, okay. Let's just not ever do that again right right it's like I mean I talked to Charlie Whitehurst and he was like kind of I mean he's not he's not that really but like the two I think he had two starts in Seattle and like they both went badly and then he had one game that was really good, but he was like, yeah, like when I finally got my chance, like I played about as bad as I could. And I was like, well, that's a refreshing dose of honesty, but it is interesting to go like, how do you move on? And then like, how many times do you get asked about that by different coaching staffs or

different, you know, scouting staffs that are looking at you to add to their roster. Like, do they just like not bring it up or is it still a thing that haunts you for years? I don't know. Folks, the more I talk about liquid death here on the show, the more I'm starting to see it everywhere. Just the other day, I was watching a chess tournament presented by liquid death. And at first glance, it looked like the players might have been playing drunk chess with beers, but no, that is Liquid Death Mountain Water in the Tallboy can. The reason that this delicious water comes in such a large can is because they're trying to bring death to plastic. Most plastics still end up in landfills because they are not profitable to recycle unlike aluminum but

liquid death is giving 10 of their profits to end plastic bottles the best part for you of course is that it gets colder faster than plastic in the refrigerator too so check it out it's your local grocery store water aisle at hyvee target whole foods and lots of other stores you can see them at liquid death.com slash insider them at liquid death.com slash insider. That's liquid death.com slash insider. I think that teams probably understand that certain guys are just practice quarterbacks and those quarterbacks, the ones who realize it themselves actually end up staying in the league for a long time. But the guys who don't realize it, they end up in the XFL still trying to live the dream because they won't just accept that. Hey,

my role is being a backup quarterback who basically should never play, but they need quarterbacks to practice in the NFL. I mean, they have outside linebackers coaches. So of course they have quarterbacks who just practice and are not ever expected to play, but it is interesting. It's sort of like, um, I, I played a little bit of a pickup basketball or like a rec league two or

three years ago. And, uh, we were playing and I consider myself a decent little basketball or so we're playing along. And, and the other gym, it was one of those that has like three,

three courts next to each other. There was the a level league that had like former D one players and stuff. So we're dribbling and passing to each other and stuff. We look over there, they're dunking like boom. And we're going like, okay, so I'm not actually good at this. Our little squad would lose a hundred to zero versus the former gophers over there. So, you know what, we're just going to have fun. And I feel like the guys who recognize, Hey, I'm never going to be far if I just hang around

in this league. A lot of times it ends up working out really well for them. Yeah. And they can still make a lot of money doing that, which is the crazy part about it. Unlike my rec league basketball career, which actually cost me $56. I was going to say probably made nothing from that. So we need to talk about Mike White since the Vikings are playing Mike White. You interviewed Mike White

without knowing that Zach Wilson was going to get benched. Although, you know, maybe could have guessed that. I think we all kind of knew. My editor was like, or my producer on his podcast, he was like,

wow, it's so crazy how this is all playing out. And I was like, or my producer on his podcast, he was like, wow, it's so crazy how this is all playing out. And I was like, is it though? It's actually not. And like, when I picked the guest for QB2, like, I can probably say this, this week is going to be Kyle Allen. And Kyle Allen started on Sunday. And I picked him because I talked to him during training camp he's very interesting

very smart so like I try to scout them a little bit in terms of like art do you have like do you like to talk um most of them do though because it's kind of like a personality trait where they're like very um smart and uh like to get into the details and things. So he, so he, he fit the bill in that way. But then I was also like, they just know he's not going to last this season. Like, I mean, I mean, this is a bad team and like,

he is not really their quarterback of the future in any way. So I'm like, okay, that could be kind of smart because I feel like by the time I run this, like Kyle might be playing. And then that worked out too. And so my producer was like, Oh crazy. How this is playing out. And I'm like by the time I run this, like Kyle might be playing. And then that worked out too. And so my producer was like, oh, crazy how this is playing out.

And I'm like, it's not. It's actually not. It's actually- Not if you're playing 3D chess with the back of quarterbacks like you are. It's actually part of the whole plan here. But yeah, the writing was clearly on the wall for Zach Wilson and Mike White.

Although I will say, I mean, it's interesting how if you just look at what's happened in New York with the quarterback role shifting. So Joe Flacco started the season when Wilson was hurt. I think he started three games. Did he go one and two, I think? So then Wilson comes back and then they start winning. So for the first few weeks, it was kind of like, oh, this is fine. You know, and then it became very obvious that Zach was not playing well. And that, you know, the drama with Garrett Wilson there and just kind of the team very clearly sort of shifting against him and not wanting him to be their starter. But in the midst of that,

Robert Sala demoted Joe Flacco to QB three and promoted Mike White to QB two. And it was sort of interesting the way that he did it because it was on a Sunday and he actually had four quarterbacks pulled up because they had to elevate Chris Treveler from the practice squad because they think they thought somebody was going to try to steal Treveler from the practice squad, because they think they thought somebody was going to try to steal Treveler from them. They didn't want to lose him.

Or maybe they were going to try to like trade Flacco or something. I don't, I don't know, but like, it was a very weird because they had like four quarterbacks pulled up on a Sunday, only two of them dressed. It was Mike and Zach,

but, uh, Strab was off the practice squad. Now he's back on the practice squad. But anyway, so that was strange. And then like Robert Sala the next day was like, oh yeah, we want to see what we have in Mike. Like we want him as a QB too,

because if he has the opportunity, like we still want to learn more about him essentially. And we know what we need to know about Joe. You know, Joe is Joe. And so we need to know what we have in Mike White. And so I thought that was kind of interesting, especially because you have a winning team, like your defense and pretty much the rest of your offense

is like ready to win games and make a postseason run. So it's kind of interesting that you would put your faith in a quarterback that you still want to learn things about instead of Joe Flacco, who like you can probably know exactly what you need to do with him, how to game plan with him, how to run the offense with him. And then, you know, just hope your defense continues to play at a high level and all of that.

So I thought that was kind of interesting that, you know, you are taking what should be a post-season team and putting it in the hands of a quarterback that you still want to learn about. But on the other hand, like, I do think Mike gives them, you know, like he's kind of like full throttle and like gives them more of an explosive passing game. And like like Garrett Wilson is so good like that was really cool to kind of see what they could do with him and realize like okay he's not being really a prima donna here like he really needs to get the ball right I I know that I mean

it was a Bears defense that is truly horrific so there is is that. But also, if you can just, with someone like Garrett Wilson, drop back and deliver play-action passes, I mean, you're going to be way better than Zach Wilson. It's not like Zach Wilson had what, say, Justin Fields had last year, which was Matt Nagy and a whole barrel of nothing. This is, like, you've got playmakers, you've got an offensive system that has worked around the league. And even a, I think a respectable offensive coordinator, it was pretty

clear that Zach Wilson just wasn't doing his job. And from the reaction of the rest of the team, everybody knew it. Like everybody could not wait for this guy to get benched. It seemed like they were just waiting for him to sort of step on his own foot in a press conference and then be like, you're out, which it was one of the dumber answers I think I've ever seen. Did you let your team down by scoring three points? No. What, what are you a dummy? And he was giving arrogant answers even early in the week. Cause I follow a bunch of jets writers. Cause it's hilarious. Uh, but I mean, he was even giving like, he was even like mocking a reporter, like, Oh, I guess you should coach the team or whatever. It's excuse me bro have you like what uh so Mike White if you are just a professional Case Keenum

like quarterback you should be able to win a lot of games with that and I I think that this was a bad break for the Vikings the timing on this because you face somebody who can at least deliver the football and hey the Vikings are 31st in yards allowed exactly um it's exactly right and like you know i think it's really interesting i was asking mike obviously the bears as you mentioned presented a very um allowable uh a very simple easy test for him to get wet his feet wet out there again as a starter but i was asking mike i was like you know when we see an interim head coach take over the team usually wins um and it doesn't usually last for the whole rest of the season but they will usually win that first game and maybe even the second and again i don't have the numbers on that but it's just kind of like a phenomenon

so i asked mike in our interview i was like you ever thought about that? Like, is there a similar phenomenon with backup quarterbacks? And when they come in, they win because it's just someone new to rally around. It's like a new energy. He was like, that's really interesting. He's like, I never really thought about that. But now that you point that out, like, it kind of tracks. And then we see him come in on Sunday and, like, have a really good game,

and everyone on that team very clearly, like, just loves him. And I think you've seen the same thing with Taylor Heineken. It's almost like they're just good because they're not the starter. Like, Mike White is good because he's not Zach Wilson. Taylor Heineke is good because he's not Carson Wentz. Like, they don't have to be, you know, Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers. Like, they don't have to be elite. They just have to be not the person that they replaced, that everyone was, you know, tired of, annoyed with, mad at, what, you know, whatever you want to say, whatever verb or adjective you want to throw in there, like they

are popular, and, you know, liked because they're not the starter. So it really could be anybody. That's not that person. So Mike White is doing a really good job with that and yeah i mean it'll be i think he can i think he can do it again against minnesota um and we'll see how the vikings do against the jets defense which is really good as well um but yeah i don't know i'm rooting for mike and they have the bills also also, I think. And like maybe is it the one after the Vikings? I'm not sure. But they have the Bills coming up again soon. And that was the team last year that he threw four interceptions against when they had the number one defense. And so, you know, we'll see. We'll see if you can learn from that experience this year.

But yeah, I mean, I think the dialogue around Zach Wilson has been really interesting, like hearing what like Matt Hasselbeck had to say yesterday. And, you know, he was like, I have been Zach Wilson, like, I've been the starter who didn't really earn the job and didn't, like have the right leadership qualities and the right attitude about it. And didn't have the fundamentals that I needed to have at the time. And so hearing his perspective was really interesting. And I think that's kind of exactly what's going on in New York. Like, I don't think Zach is never going to be a good quarterback.

It's just he doesn't have the leadership qualities. He doesn't have the fundamentals right now to build off of. And unfortunately, like if that was on the bears he would still be the starter like 100 because he that's not a good team like they have they're tanking essentially so they they would just let him continue to learn and develop and grow but the jets are i kind of i think they kind of surprised themselves that they are like not in the position to be doing that this year so if he was anywhere else I think he would still be the starter but he's kind of a Zach Rosenblatt who I work with had called said this originally he was

the first person to say that sounds like that's so true he's like a victim of his own his own success of the Jets success so you know the team is like too good to be dealing with him right now. And I guess the question that I have too about them is, you know, did you know that he was this immature when you drafted him? I mean, because it's not his first year though. That's where it's really concerning to me because, okay, a rookie comes in, he's a little arrogant. He's a little full of himself. I'm the top draft pick. i know what i'm doing nobody else does that's sort of typical kid stuff but when you're talking about somebody who's already been through an nfl season and is still acting this way like is that something that they're going to be able to fix i mean man

hasselbeck was able to fix it and got his wake-up call i saw that segment uh after trent dilfer came in and won four games in a row as his replacement. It was like, oh, okay, well, it is me. But all the other players want from a backup quarterback is to just do your job. And Mike White seems like a do-your-job guy. He also seems like a guy that might throw you the football a couple times, which this is where the Vikings are, the yin and yang. They give up a ton of yards, but they cause a lot of turnovers. They have big plays at big times, good fourth quarter defense. So I think that, you know, of course, Mike White is going to get a lot of like, wow, this guy did something amazing. But usually the reality of the

QB twos is that it's hard to sustain. So they're in a bit of a tough spot because you have a guy who won a super bowl, who's your quarterback three, but it's also really horrendous. Now, Mike White, who they're sort of unsure about Zach Wilson, who you're sure is too immature to do this job right now. And a defense that is unbelievable. And it seems like a really good coaching staff that could win. It's a, it's, it's a very like awkward position. It's something you don't see very often. Usually if a team is in this position to legitimately compete, they usually just have a good quarterback and we don't even have this conversation. And I feel like,

I'm trying to think of the other years. Well, obviously Nick Foles did not start until very late, almost kind of the same time range probably as Mike White this year. So, although that may have been a little bit later in December. Later, yeah, it was later. But it's a little, it's kind of comparable. And like that ended up working really well. However, Foles, at that point, I do believe,

had a lot more starting experience than Mike White does right now. So I think that is the concerning thing about Mike, is I just think he doesn't have enough regular season playing experience to feel like he is the reliable guy that Nick Foles ended up being for the Eagles however like when Trent Dilfer won what was his experience before I don't I don't actually know his career that well did he have a lot of experience before um that season he did yeah so Trent Dilfer was a top draft pick. I think he was seventh overall of Tampa Bay and he had one season. I think they went nine and seven, but it was very

Rocky with him throughout his time there. And when he joined Baltimore, he was actually their backup and it was Tony banks who started that season. I mean, it's an all time QB two story. And he probably like, he gets known as sort of the worst quarterback to win a Superbowl until Nick Foles. Um, but he really actually did play well that year. I mean, they, they just had a couple of games where they didn't score a touchdown and their defense one and things like that. Uh, but yeah, Dilfer was kind of the ultimate fringy 500 style quarterback. I think his record for his career is like 58 and 56 or something like perfectly 500 quarterback.

But he had played a lot in comparison, like you're saying to Mike White. Right. So this would be a guy who could go into the playoffs and not be intimidated and whatever. I don't know if that's going to be the case for Mike White if he makes it there because he could have a great game and then throw four picks this week. And then they're scrambling and playing Flacco or putting Wilson back in and then their season comes to tatters.

So they're, they're like one of the most fascinating teams because of this. Yeah. It's like, you really haven't right now. It's like, you can make no prediction about if they make the playoffs, who their quarterback would be like at this rate.

I have no idea. Cause Mike might play well for two weeks and then completely collapse um because he got benched after four games last year for Flacco so that might happen again it might be Joe Flacco in the playoffs um and I was thinking about like I you know Case Keenum as well like year in Minnesota, but he also had a more starting experience at that point than Mike White has. So I don't know. It's going to be really interesting. But I do think he has like, from talking to him for like 30 minutes, I do really think he has like the leadership skills and he's got the support of the locker room for sure.

I don't think he's got the support of the locker room for sure i don't think he's gonna lose it um even if he plays poorly like i think they like him and they think he's like responsible and mature and knows his stuff and from my conversation with him it just seems like he's like you know he's got the typical like backup personality where they're just going to work really, really, really hard and not blame anybody else. And yeah, so I think he's like mentally completely ready to do this and handle it. And he's been in New York for a long time, like since 2019, I believe, which doesn't feel like, okay, four years, but like that's actually a very long time to be with the Jets because he's been through two different coaching staffs.

I think he's had the same front office the whole time, but he's survived a coaching change there. He's seen the Jets. He was part of the 0-13 start team in 2020. So like he's been through a lot there. And I think he's got a really good understanding of how the team operates, the dynamics of the locker room, all of that. So my conversation with him, I was like,

okay, this guy's ready for this moment. And obviously, we talked before he was promoted. So we didn't actually get into, Oh, now you're the starter. What are you going to do now? But yeah, I think it was interesting. And one thing that I thought was a very interesting part of the discussion that I'm always thinking about is the dynamics of a quarterback room. And so they have Joe, they have Zach, they have my who have all started games for the Jets

going into this year and Sala and training camp said we have three starting quarterbacks I like feel strongly about that and everyone who listens to this is going to be familiar with the adage of like when you have two quarterbacks you have none and what does that mean for the Jets so I asked him that question I was like what do you think I asked him that question. I was like, what do you think about that? And he was like, I was like, is it possible to have more than one starter in the same room and like work together and like a productive functional way? And he was like, yeah, it can be when you have the right people in the room. And obviously he said, I think we have the right people in the room. But he did give kind of interesting answer about how

like nobody can have an ego. Everybody has to be knowing their role and doing their role. And we're all here to help whoever the starter is. And he was like, it doesn't matter if Joe is the starter or if I was the starter. So he seems to think that this setup is going to be okay there. So it'll be interesting to see how it plays out. Tis the season for you to buy the best Minnesota sports themed apparel in the world for all of your friends and family.

Go to sodastick.com. They have great holiday shopping deals there and use the promo code insider. That is S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K.com code insider for all of your holiday shopping. I'm guessing by the fact that Zach Wilson was not even the backup that he did not do his job that week. I'm guessing. Yes. Probably not. And I'm sure if you're Joe Flacco, you're like, I have a ring. How is this guy starting? It's it's uh i mean there's no way joe can be happy about right right i mean how could he's probably he he's probably able to

compartmentalize that so like it doesn't affect their quarterback room and so like mike is like oh yeah joe is totally chill like because i asked him about like getting promoted over joe and he was like yeah it's been fine um but there's no way like i if you were to really he was like, yeah, it's been fine. Um, but there's no way, like if you were to really ask Joe, I'm sure he's like, this sucks. Right. Right. Like, how is this possible that I was, uh, you know, raising a trophy not that long ago, less than a decade ago, but he's, he was completely washed though, having seen a couple of the games earlier this year. So they might as well roll with Mike white and ride that wave uh before we wrap up though i have to give you i have to go through my top backup stories of the entire season and a lot of them have some viking connection to it strangely

yeah so having the vikings i played every team with a backup it's amazing i mean yeah i i guess like how backupy is andy Dalton would be a question like, is Taylor Heineke better than Carson Wentz at this point? Possibly. So there is that question, but yes, they've, I was almost surprised that Mac Jones, instead of Bailey Zappy, ruined one on the list. So, all right, well, it starts out the number one, I'm just going to go from number one down. Cause it's not that important. Jimmy Gar starts out the number one. I'm just going to go from number one down because it's not that important. Jimmy Garoppolo is number one on this list. The best backup story of the season. Maybe one of it could be one of the best backup stories ever, depending on how it goes, because they've got a chance to be a legitimate Super Bowl contender. What is it? What is just your thought and analysis on what has happened here with San Francisco? I mean, I'm very impressed with Jimmy Garoppolo because I think he could have just

been like, Oh no, no, no, I don't care about this. And instead it's like, let's go win. I think that really shows some serious professionalism at the same time.

It's like San Francisco, you had a quarterback that took you to the super bowl and maybe you overthought it a little. I guess I get it. So I don't know, like even what happens with Jimmy Garoppolo and Trey Lance's future. It's super fascinating. There's so many things that like I don't understand about this entire situation.

Like it's just so weird because in training camp, I remember Peter King literally wrote in his column. It was so interesting. He was like, yeah, Jimmy is like practicing by himself alone, like two fields away while the team is like in meetings. And then when they go to practice, he leaves like he doesn't even go to meetings. So that was like the structure of the offseason. Like he was not on this team. Like he was on on this team but he was like effectively absolutely not on this team um they were very much moving on and he i think he assumed he would also be playing somewhere else and so it is really i mean he should be teaching like a master class for quarterbacks or something because yeah because i mean i would be pissed at the niners like they just like threw

me aside after like i've done nothing but like win games for them like i can't remember his record right now but it was like 50 and something uh i saw it on twitter yesterday but it was good it's good it's very good it was like 50 and like i don't 17 or 18 or 19 or something like that like it was a very good good record and I think it's easy to pick him apart but when it comes down to it like he they could win games with him and I I totally understand like drafting Trey Lance um and just hoping that you can have this really elite athlete and see what he can be as a quarterback like i i understand that but they did give up so much for him that you think about like mike sando at the athletic wrote this maybe like two months ago earlier this season he was like think about

everything the niners could have done with the picks that they used on trey lance and how they could have supported jimmy g and this was before before the Christian McCaffrey trade that he wrote this. So at that point, like they were kind of struggling still. And so, I mean, Jimmy was their quarterback, but like they were kind of growing and trying to figure it out because like, obviously he had not practiced with them during training camp. He didn't even make the trip to Minnesota when they did joint practices. He wasn't even there.

So crazy. Like I, I'm trying to think of a scenario like that, where like a quarterback was on the roster, but was not involved. And I can't, I mean, I can think of Deshaun Watson in 2021 last season with the Texans,

but he'd ever played. He didn't come back and play. Like he never returned to that team and they never embraced him again, but that's like essentially what the Niners had to do. And so I think it was a very smart business decision for them to work it out. Like it's worked out very well, but I am really amazed by Jimmy's like attitude about it all because I would have been like, no, fuck you guys. Like I'm not coming back. Like, um,

so yeah, it's been amazing. And, and obviously like, since getting Christian McCaffrey, like that really helped him out. Um, and I think too, like before the narrative was like, Oh, how is Jimmy holding them back? But I think this year, Shanahan has schemed it in a way that like Jimmy is like like I was kind of or actually today at Sports Illustrated has something about Jimmy that I was just reading before this and it was interesting like he's you know kind of comparing how I guess he has like the shortest or he's got the uh oh my, I don't know how to phrase this stat, but like throwing yards.

He throws behind the sticks more than anybody else. I don't know what the stat is actually called, but that's what it means essentially. And so, you know, he's, he's kind of like looking at how he, how his stats compared to other quarterbacks. And he also has like the highest obviously like yards after catch production um i think it's like 60 percent of his passing yards are yards after catch so like you could just see in those ways how shanahan is like using him even better than he

has before and sort of like coaching jimmy weaknesses almost to be like a non-factor even when he does make mistakes they're not affecting the Niners in ways that they used to so it's just really I do agree this is the number one backup story of all time and I can't wait to see who signs him next year because he's gonna be playing somewhere else I think and. And like, as a starter for, you know, that's actually at training camp. So I think if we're talking all time, it could end up there. If they go to the Superbowl. Yeah. If they win, if they win a Superbowl.

Yeah. Kurt Warner's tough to top. Yeah. As far as the all-time backup story, but it literally would be up there. Um, Jeff Hostetler taking over in the playoffs for Phil Sims, beating the 49ers and bills. Like there's a lot of great ones, but man,

uh, Nick Foles, obviously you mentioned this would go right up there because of how awkward and strange that was. So weird. Uh, 41 and 19 is his record as a 40. Oh,

41, 19. Okay, great. I was close. I was kind of close. Yeah. I mean,

that's 15, 17. You're winning twice as often as you're losing. And you're just like, no, we need a new quarterback. It's kind of, kind of close yeah i mean that's 15 and 17 you're winning twice as often as you're losing and you're just like no we need a new quarterback it's kind of kind of strange how that played out but i got it though he was injured the season before yeah and he had been injured two of the previous three years so maybe they thought like this guy's going to be hurt all the time and we should just get a real athlete but i also also think it's sad in their mind that they had the lead in the Super Bowl and he needed one throw and couldn't make that throw,

which may end up very well being the case in the playoffs. Again, it was last year, so he's not perfect. But usually that quarterback has a job and isn't sitting on another field. So we can run through these a little faster. But Taylor Heineke, we talked a little bit about. That's my number two coming off the bench after they traded senselessly for carson wentz and then heineke is able to win with them um cooper rush let's not let's not forget cooper rush though like this this man deserves

his flowers that team is a legitimate super bowl contender and they were able to hang in that race in a tough division because of cooper j rush. What's his middle name. I'll find out what you're talking. I was like, is Jay his middle initial? I don't know. It might be. Yeah,

no, that was exciting. That was, that was cool. And I think Helen Warren has like a lot to do with that because he's a very smart offensive coordinator and he's worked with rush for three years, maybe more than that.

But they've been together for several years. So it's like he knows that system. He knows his quarterback really well. And everyone says Cooper is very smart. Mike White was actually in that quarterback room in 2018, I believe. And he was like, oh, yeah, Cooper and Kellen are like really, really smart guys. So, yeah, I loved the cooper rush storyline that was really fun cooper r rush oh r okay yeah it was a good guess though jay is a good guess because

so many names start with the j that's why i went with it and homer jay simpson is basically why uh but um cooper rush getting cut out of camp though. And then coming in, coming back and winning games for them. Really something. Bailey Zappy. I think like how funny is the very brief, maybe Bailey Zappy is our real quarterback. Like that is a, it is a motif for backup quarterbacks where it's like, could this guy be?

And there's like, Oh no, no, no, no, he couldn't. That's the typical like Belichick, like not giving any information about it and

being like oh i don't i don't know i have to see how practice goes this week and then like it's mac jones the next day it's like yeah okay we know um that was fun though and i think like i think we'll see more of him i don't think this is the last of Billy Zappy. I think he'll be back in some version. Maybe he is a bass player for a jazz trio or something. That's what Bailey Zappy sort of sounds like to me. Does Geno Smith count in this? I think he does, right? He won the starting job, but I think he still counts as a QB2 story.

Yes, he absolutely does. And I requested him for my show. I haven't actually heard back from the Seahawks. I need to follow up, but, um, I don't know that he would do it because I feel like he's the type of guy that's like, I mean, I've heard him say this before. Like, he's like, I never thought of myself as a backup, but that's why I want to talk to him. Because it's like, how can you keep the hope alive for like so many years when you are like not given the chance and like nobody sees you

that way except yourself like and maybe your agent um so how do you I don't know like how do you like keep pushing on and thinking like yeah I am going to get my shot I'm going to be able to do this and he's a he's's definitely a backup story. And he's probably for this season, he's up there with, I would say he's up there with Jimmy. Okay. That's why I had to ask, because I'll put him number two behind Jimmy

if we count him as a QB2 story, which I guess we should. I mean, they traded for Drew Locke. I guarantee you that people in their front office were hoping that Drew Locke won that job. And they're like, ah, okay,

fine. Drew locks, not any good, but maybe 11 years from now, he will be, I guess we'll find out. Right. Um,

Jacoby percent being painted as the nicest guy in America. Good for you. Jacoby percent. He came in and didn't play too bad. Like that's, that's fine. After this Jacoby percent handling that absolute tire fire of a situation with class playing good football, winning a handful of games.

That man will have a job until he is 47 years old. He is the Steve DeBerg. He'll be around forever. Good for you, Jacoby Brissett. I hope he can get out of Cleveland personally just because I can't support that organization. But yes, he's done done he did a good job he did a very good job in the weirdest worst most terrible dynamics ever and good for him he can compartmentalize and I just, I hope for better for him where he can

go play somewhere where he doesn't have to answer questions about what the starting quarterback did. Yeah. My last one was that time case Keenum almost played against the Vikings. So that was a big story for a whole week and it didn't happen. I was so sad. It didn't happen. I was actually really bummed. I wanted to see it. Yeah. I think the Vikings would have stomped them if that had actually happened the way that Josh Allen needed to play to have that game close. But is there any that I've missed though? That was my list. I didn't include Mike White yet because he's got to prove that more than one game.

Yeah. I think you hit all of the good. Oh, well, the Dolphins saga. Oh, yeah. When Tua got the concussion. I mean, that was a saga. Because Teddy came in for the next game for one play and then was removed. And poor Skylar Thompson had to go in there.

Was he drafted? I can't remember. Seventh rounder. Okay, seventh rounder, okay seventh rounder rookie but he is actually 25 years old like he i think he's older than tua um maybe not older than tua but he's he's close um so he's like a rookie but like not really he's like older in spirit um he had to come in and play and then he gets hurt and then teddy comes in for him so there was like three games in a row where whoever started the game there did not finish the game

and somehow they made it out of that and are a very good team uh and everything was fine um so that was that was a very unique scenario i don't know that like again that would be another interesting stat to look up is like has any other team for three games in a row with different with three different quarterbacks like who were supposed to be the starters it was tua and then it was teddy and it was skylar and none of them finished the games that they were starting so that was kind of crazy. I know. And Skylar looked great against the Vikings to start the game, and then he got knocked out of it with his hand and stuff.

So the fascinating backup quarterback world, and you are literally the only person in America covering it. Well, you covered it as well. I more of just send you like heckling DMs about it. I'm just like Bryce Perkins season. Like,MS about it. I'm just like, uh, Bryce Perkins season. Like, here we go. I didn't even like that one.

I was like, when did this happen? Like I haven't, I haven't really been playing close, close attention to the Rams. Cause they're just Rams. I mean, I guess they're interesting in a bad way this season,

but, um, I hadn't been paying close attention. Then I was like, wait, who, what is going on here? When did this happen?

Yeah. So follow along with that at the athletic, of course, and along with all your other tremendous reporting that you do. But this is my favorite stuff. I have to tell you the truth. It really is. Yeah, me too. I mean, it's part of the Vikings legacy of backup quarterbacks,

whether it's Randall Cunningham or Case Keenum or Wade Wilson or whatever. So I feel like it really fits, but always appreciate getting together with you. It's always a super fun conversation and we will definitely do it again soon. Maybe when it's Vikings versus whatever backup quarterback in the playoffs. You'll have one for sure. I feel confident about that because of the pattern so far. It does seem like a lock. Well, thanks for your time and thank you all for listening.

Thanks so much.