Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - The Bears hire Ben Johnson, what should Vikings learn from the playoffs?

Episode Date: January 21, 2025

Matthew Coller and Manny Hill talk about the Bears hiring the Lions offensive coordinator and trends from the postseason. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar along with Manny Hill here this evening. Hopefully you're watching the national championship. If you remember that college football was still going on tonight along with watching us live here on the show and we've got some very relevant news around the NFL to the Minnesota Vikings the Chicago Bears have a head coach and they got one that didn't make me scratch my head or get confused and all the Chicago Bears fans I know were not crying and yelling about anything they're're actually happy about this. So we need to break that down and also react to what we saw over the weekend. We've had a little bit of time to process now, and we could talk about what the results

of the playoffs say about the Minnesota Vikings. And we'll take off season questions and comments as well. I know all of you want to talk offensive line already in the chat. Don't worry. We'll get to it. We will definitely get to it. But Manny, let's start out by discussing Ben Johnson is the coach of the Chicago Bears and nobody is anointing Ben Johnson, the next great coach in the National Football League. Trust me. I know we've done this with lots of genius offensive minds in the past. Well, this guy, he's going to take them wherever. And then the guy finds out that it's a very different job like Josh McDaniels, uh, for

two different times. He found that out. But I think that if you are on the Viking side and you were thinking, who would we want the bears to hire? It wasn't this guy. It was, Hey, how about you hire Mike McCarthy or something? That'll be fine. That'll kind of put a cap on what you can actually be. What you didn't want is the mind behind one of the best offenses that we've seen in the NFL in the regular season, uh, over the last, I don't know how many years, but the way Detroit grew around Jared Goff, the way they built it,

and what it meant to the quarterback position. Ben Johnson was one of the best offensive minds in the NFL over the last several seasons, and now he is working with Caleb Williams. So your thoughts, man? Yeah, I mean, I think if you're a Bears fan, Now he is working with Caleb Williams. So your thoughts, man. Yeah. I mean, I, I think if you're a bears fan, I think you have to be pretty excited about this. Um, Ben Johnson, I think just from, you know, a scheming standpoint, a play calling standpoint,

he's just one of those guys that kinds of just kind of just gets it and kind of understands modern offensive football. And, you know, what he's going to have working in his favor going into this is that he doesn't have to worry about trying to draft a quarterback because he's got his young quarterback already in place, ready to go with a full season under his belt. Granted, it was a season with a lot of ups and downs, but he still has Caleb Williams, who's very young, who's only going into year two, already in place. So he doesn't even have to play the game of going into the draft

and focusing on, all right, am I going to have to – let's take a look at Cam Ward. Let's take a look at Shador Sanders. Let's take a look at Quinn Ewers or whoever else is going to be to let's let's let's take a look at cam ward let's take a look at shadour sanders let's take a look at uh you know quinn ewers or whoever else is going to be in a draft i don't even know who the third quarterback is going to be um but he doesn't have to worry about that he's stepping into a situation where there's a lot of talent on offense already um not just with caleb williams but you know the running backs with deandre Swift, the receivers, that's really going to be working in his favor. And he's got some pieces on the defensive side too that are pretty good

that he'll be able to kind of work with and be able to handpick a defensive coordinator that can kind of fit with some of the guys that he has in place already. So I think it's a good fit. I think the only thing that might be working's a good fit. I think the, the only thing that might be working against him is that he's never been a head coach before he's going into a situation similar to what Kevin O'Connell did three years ago, never been a head coach before.

And so there's probably going to be a little bit of a learning curve there in that first year. But I think with the offensive mind that he has with the pieces that are in place already for him I think it's offensive mind that he has with the pieces that are in place already for him, um, I think it's going to be a pretty good fit. And I, I, I would be surprised if the bears are not a significantly better team next season. So the big question for me would be how does Ben Johnson manage that? His new quarterback is so much different than his previous quarterback. Jared Goff, his superpower is his ability to drop back, get rid of the football, throw accurately, make the right

decisions, except for when he gets knocked out potentially by Washington. Then the decisions became a little more dicey. But for most of the last two seasons, Jared Goff has been really brilliant when it comes to getting rid of that football, playing on time, understanding all the moving parts, leading an offense, commanding it. These are all things that we did not see from Caleb Williams this last year. What we saw from Caleb Williams was a handful of absolutely eye popping plays. And I was at Soldier Field for about five or six of them where I walked out going, whoa, man, that's a lot of talent for Caleb Williams. But I also was at US Bank Stadium to watch him totally collapse under the pressure of the Vikings

defense. And one of the big issues for Williams is not getting rid of the football and not being decisive and not seeing the field. I mean, you can really tell, and it was a Justin Fields issue. It's been an issue for many quarterbacks who have gone bust over the years when someone's just not seeing what's in front of them when they're not seeing the correct reads. And I remember looking back at the film after the Vikings and bears game at us bank stadium and going, wow, did he have a lot of receivers open? I mean, wow. Was there a lot of opportunities for Caleb Williams? He just didn't see them. And he was bailing from the pocket and he was panicking. And then when things went wrong, he made it worse. And then he ends up

on the sideline on the bench flop down, just totally defeated by Brian Flores, his defense, not the first young quarterback to have that happen. But that's very, very different from what Ben Johnson has been dealing with. So we know that he's going to improve the screen game, the play action game, all the kind of cheap hacks that work in the NFL always, but the straight drop back, make a decision, get the ball out of your coordinator. And Kevin O'Connell had to learn this like everybody else. And everybody wants to be that McVay on the sideline, the genius, just dialing up all the plays. But McVay has the leadership. Kevin O'Connell has the leadership. Is that the case for Ben Johnson? Because I think what we saw with Matt Eberflus was that guy knows defense. If he's my defensive coordinator, I feel great about Matt Eberflus was that guy knows defense. If he's my defensive coordinator, I feel great about Matt Eberflus. He could not rally the troops at all. I mean, they were,

they were against him a hundred percent. It seemed he couldn't manage through a game, which was a major challenge for Eberflus and got him fired. So yeah, we, we all know that anytime it's a first year coach i just want to see how's he going to deal with how different his quarterback is now yeah and also it's going to be different up front for his quarterback in this particular case with the chicago bears because the bears did not have a very good offensive line uh really the last couple of years um in detroit the lions had one of the best offensive lines in the NFL, if not the best.

And that made things a lot easier for Jared Goff to sit in the pocket, make the right reads, make the right throws to the weapons that he had with the Lions. That is going to be the number one challenge for Ben Johnson is, all right, I've got this young quarterback who's extremely talented. He can make every sort of wow, crazy, off-script throw imaginable. How do I get him to kind of play a little bit more within the confines of our offense and stand in the pocket, be patient, make the right read, make the right throw in the

right situation? But the other part of that is going to be, you're going to have to find a way to bolster up that offensive line so that Caleb Williams does have enough time to sit in the pocket and make all of those reads and doesn't feel compelled to just bail on a play immediately because he's got a defensive tackle running after him. He's having to roll out and then having to kind of make something happen on his own. And it's good to have that trait as a quarterback in the league.

It's what makes Patrick Mahomes so great. It's what makes Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen so great. To a lesser degree, it's kind of what made Sam Darnold play really well at times this year was he was able to kind of get out of the pocket and make plays. So it's good that Caleb has that. But there is going to have to be moments where, all right, Caleb, the pocket is clean. You've got receivers open. You've got to see them and you've got to make the right three and make the right read and make the right throw.

And that's going to be the challenge for Ben Johnson going forward. The offensive line in Chicago is an interesting subject because as I've been doing my research for what the Vikings will do with their offensive line, there's at least three guys who grade pretty well by PFF on Chicago's line. And at the top of that list is Tevin Jenkins, former second round draft pick, who I think would look really good next to Christian Derrissaw. That would be some mountainous gentlemen over there on the left side. But there's at least two other linemen who are free agents for them who by the numbers did pretty well. And really the guy who kept getting a lot of the blame was the quarterback for causing his own pressure. And that's another challenge of Ben Johnson's

because do you build up the offensive line only to have him scrambling around anyway. And how do you match the offensive line that they had in Detroit? Because that was a top two offensive line in the league, along with Philadelphia. It's going to be pretty hard with free agents up there to just whoop. And now it's completely rebuilt. Also speaks to maybe the competition for interior linemen after what we've seen in the playoffs. So I think with the Ben Johnson hire from a Vikings perspective, the biggest concern that you have is that he is going to be really great at getting Caleb Williams to play on time and that his offense just has so much trickeration. I don't even mean throwing the tackles. I mean, it has all this eye candy and

different looks and different motions and play actions and all these things that just offer so many challenges, but also against Brian Flores, his defense, this stuff worked. And I know a lot of that is Jared Goff. There's no question about it, but I mean, I think Caleb could probably even throw to wide open receivers. you could create them. Like this was the guy who was behind picking apart a Vikings defense through the first five weeks of the season that had been untouchable. And then they walk into U.S. Bank Stadium and just get explosive plays and open underneath throws and everything else and run the football. That's another part of it that Ben Johnson seems to fully understand something that maybe Kevin O'Connell doesn't, which is how to run the ball. And they had a lot of success. Yes. Jameer Gibbs is a big part of that, but they did that with whoever was back there with this offense against the Vikings. So I think that it was the offense you didn't

want to see show up elsewhere, but there's another part of this replacing him in Detroit speaks to how hard it is to keep doing this. And the Vikings, for example, when they went 13 and three and they had the number one defense and they go to the NFC championship and case Keenum has this magical season. What happened? They lost Pat Shermer. They brought somebody else in and it was not the same at all with John D Filippo. And that's Mike Zimmer's fault for picking.

Well, if he even picked the offensive coordinator or Rick Spielman, whoever picked the offensive coordinator, doing it based on the vibes or whatever, as opposed to the actual offensive scheme that they were going to run and trying to make Kirk cousins run a totally different system from what he had done in Washington. Just a huge mistake, but it shows you how difficult it is when you lose a coordinator. And this is a bigger question for you, Manny. It has to do with Ben Johnson leaving with Detroit, but also in general, like how good do you think Detroit is going to be next year? It's just so hard to repeat 15 wins. It's certainly hard if

they lose Aaron Glenn and Ben Johnson, because those are the systems they've been playing, but they still have a ton of talent in Detroit. Yeah, it kind of reminds me of when the Vikings had that 15-1 season in 98, and then Brian Billick, who was the offensive coordinator of that team, got the head coaching job for the Ravens, and then two years later he won a Super Bowl. The Vikings the next year year 99 still had a really good season offensively with you know randall cunningham and getting end up getting benched for jeff george george comes in plays very well they go to the playoffs their offense was still

good but it was a little bit different it wasn't quite as explosive and as powerful as the 98 team was now some of that can be attributed to just guys being a year older, the NFL getting a full season of film on that team and being able to pick up on a few things. But as it pertains to Detroit, I mean, the Lions are going to be facing, I think, some of the same sort of challenges. The relationship that Jared goff had with ben johnson from a play calling standpoint that's gone now you're gonna have to have somebody else step

in is it somebody do they elevate somebody do they bring somebody in from the outside how is that gonna work and there's gonna be a little bit of a growth period i think between jared goff and the next guy that replaces Ben Johnson, because those guys are just going to have to establish, even if it's a guy from within, they're going to have to establish some sort of new kind of relationship because the roles are going to be very different. So with that said, though, with the amount of talent that they have, with Jared Goff still being in his prime, that offensive line still being intact, Jameer Gibbs, Montgomery coming back, the receivers, all of that stuff,

there's still so much talent there that I could see a little bit of a drop-off, but not so much of a drop-off to where they're going to suddenly become like a 500 team and not be able to score points. There's still going to be a lot there for them to work with and still be a pretty powerful offensive team. Something that stood out to me just reading some friends that are writers in Detroit is they were talking about the schedule that Detroit has to face. And I believe every team that was playing or every team that was still alive after Detroit was eliminated is on their schedule next year. So Baltimore, Kansas city, like everybody, you know, Buffalo, it's the first place schedule. So you've got to play the best teams and that's going to be harder

for them. I also think about when it comes to replacing a great offensive coordinator, and this is why it's a hack to have someone like kevin o'connell that is going to have continuity with their system year in year out is that you know how the band queen is still out there playing shows and you're like yeah okay that sort of sounds like the singing but it's not really freddie mercury it feels a little bit of the same way with an offensive play caller where he can try whoever they hire to decide to do the same offense and implement the same things. But it's not quite the same as the guy who masterminded you to well over 500 points this year, which is a hard thing to do. But whoever the OC is, I mean, that person is just inheriting a

throne of gold that they've got everything still there. And then on the defensive side, are 16 people going to end up on IR again? Probably not. I'm guessing that Aiden Hutchinson will play next year and McNeil's going to be back. Poor Amik Robertson. I was so impressed with him against the Vikings. And that guy's been good and just never really got a lot of credit for it. Finally was starting to get some attention and he breaks his arm on like the third play of the game. Every one of those injuries, the one guy hurt his jaw, you know, Carlton Davis.

Like, well, how does that even happen? So the wreckage that went on, what's that, that series of movies that used to get released around Halloween where people would die in the craziest ways. What was that? Yes. So I saw,

and then there was another one that was like, I mean, I guess that's kind of all movies that get released around Halloween. Somebody, somebody tell me it's not saw, but it's one where final destination, I think is what it was. Oh yeah. Somebody tell me. It's not Saw, but it's one where Final Destination, I think, is what it was called. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. So that was like their defense this year, which is like Final Destination, where every single player had something crazy happen to them. And if that doesn't happen next year, they should have a much better or much healthier defense down the stretch. So I don't see Detroit as going anywhere, but I do see it as being harder.

And I also think that when we talk about the NFC North, all of them eliminated right out of the playoffs, maybe the AFC South helped everybody. I started to have that thought. Were they, I don't think that there was fraudulence, but I think 14, 15 wins for the Vikings in Detroit, I think it may have been a little assisted and that the strength of these teams was different

than what their actual win totals turned out to be. Or maybe that's just hindsight. How do you see that? Well, I mean, if you think about it, it next year the NFC North is going to play I think the AFC North if I'm not mistaken um so that's Lamar that's Joe Burrow that's I mean who cares who the Pittsburgh quarterback is that's going to be tough just going up against that team especially maddox tommy maddox neil neil o'donnell um um but but yeah so i mean that's that's just going to be a tougher division i mean you know the browns the browns might still end up being kind of a bye week but um those other

three teams are going to be tough teams to beat. And so the schedule is going to be a little bit harder. And that's where I think every team in the NFC North is going to have to think about finding ways to bolster the roster. And that's the other thing I saw in the chat. Somebody said that the Lions have almost $68 million in cap space. Now, that's just like not fair. A team that's that good already has even more money to spend. Now, I don't know how many free agents on their own roster that they have that they're going to have to get better because the schedule is going to be much more challenging. And you might not see, you know, you're probably not going to see two teams win 14 games, another team win 11 games.

I mean, it might be, you know, a 12-5 type of record that wins this division. And the Vikings and maybe it's the Lions and then the Vikings and Packers are, you know, 10-7, 11-6 type of teams, just because the schedule is going to be more challenging. They do have quite a few free agents, which is probably making up some of that number. Carlton Davis. Remember when they signed Marcus Davenport? Kevin Zeitler is another guy who was great for them and then got injured a couple of wide receivers uh you know that dan skipper is going to get a five-year contract you know 40 million a year probably for them um i'm just kidding but sometimes you thought that he was the biggest star on the team uh so

yeah but they i mean that's when it comes to this free agent thing the vikings have a great argument because of the environment that they create for free agents to come here, but they're not the only team with the way the salary cap has shot up. They are not the only team going into free agency saying we need to bolster X, Y, and Z, and we're going to be looking to spend on whatever it might be. There's going to be a lot of teams that also have the same plan in free agency, which is why it's not the easiest plan all the time. They were able to pull it off last year, getting Cashman here,

Van Ginkle. There's some connections with those two guys. Cashman is from here. Van Ginkle played under Brian Flores and they outbid everybody for Jonathan Grenard, but it's just not always a guarantee when you go over those free agent lists that a, everybody actually even gets to free agency. A lot of those lists get chopped by a third by players re-signing with their teams after they go to the NFL combine and they negotiate with agents there and meet with agents and then they re-sign guys. So it's a little bit harder than just pulling up the free agency

tracker on over the cap.com and going like, okay, we'll take this guy, this guy, this guy, this guy. And that's going to be a challenge for the Vikings. They're going to have to spend to bring in free agents because they will be competing with teams like Detroit. I mean, if you're a free agent, you've got some great choices. If you're a free agent guard, you've got some really great choices where, you know, the Vikings are going to be bidding, but a team like Chicago and now isn't interesting for a free agent.

They might be willing to just go crazy overpay. They're paying their coach $13 million, which is something else that has come up. And I want to ask you about, which is if it is indeed correct that they're paying Ben Johnson $13 million to be their head coach, what's Kevin O'Connell worth? And there's probably, it's probably good that there's no salary cap for coaches with Kevin O'Connell.

What is he worth going into a negotiation? If Ben Johnson is going to get that much. I mean, if you're Kevin O'Connell, you've got to be looking and saying, look, man, that guy got $13 million a year, and he's not been a head coach for a single game in the NFL yet. I've got, let's see, 14, 13, plus 34 wins in three seasons. Granted, no playoff wins yet, but I've been to the playoffs twice. I've gotten 13 and 14 win seasons under my belt,

and I got a division title under my belt. What's up? Come on, Ziggy and Mark. Let's talk here. Let's have a conversation. Yeah, I mean, I think Kevin's got a great, great argument to bring to the table now to just say like, hey, look at what we've done. You know, this team was in a really rough cap situation just a couple of years ago.

And Kwesi and I have come in and Kwesi's done all the shopping and brought in the free agents. And I've built this roster up and inspired this roster and led this team to 34 wins in three seasons. And we've got a young quarterback here that we want to invest in to be a big part of our future. Let's go. Let's have a real conversation about it. That's what I think KLC is going to have to do. And if I'm him, yeah, I'm looking at'm looking at what Ben Johnson got and I'm saying,

yeah, let's, let's talk. That's, that's a figure that I'm looking at. I actually think that this is a good thing for the Vikings negotiations with Kevin O'Connell because it's not my money. And,

uh, I surprisingly, even with the success of purple insider, don't quite have as much money as the we're getting there we're getting there subscribe to the newsletter folks purple insider dot football um but it sets a number that's very clear and the idea would be if you're kevin o'connell here's where you're negotiating from if i became a free agent which he he could next year, if he just doesn't sign an extension, if I became a free agent, how much would someone else pay me? And now we have our answer.

It's $13 million because Ben Johnson was a straight up bidding war. The Raiders wanted him. The Jaguars wanted him. Hey, shockingly Jaguars, no one wants to work with Trent bulky, great work, but that's someone else's problem. Luckily, I don't know why they continue to roll back the same GM and just have the same results. Not the point. So you got three teams who wanted Ben Johnson. There's a bidding war.

And the team that has it work out pays $13 million. If you're Kevin O'Connell, you're going, okay, well, a little bit more than that, because next year it, there will be seven other teams that are looking for coaches. They'll look for somebody proven and they'll have a bidding war. If Kevin O'Connell were to go out in the free agent market and someone will pay him $15 million to do it. And there's your number. And because there's no cap on coaches, this doesn't really matter to us. The number that he gets other than, wow, what are you going to buy with that? Uh, but aside from that, it's, it really doesn't matter. And the Vikings have this enormous coaching staff. The Wilfs have never been cheap. They have always been willing to pay out

for whatever it might be. They continued to pay Mike Zimmer for a year after extending him, or was it even two years, I think, after extending him, maybe just a year with his contract. But they were paying two coaches at the same time. So I don't think that they're a cheap ownership when you look at the way they pay players and all those things. And if indeed Andy Reid makes 20 million a year, Kevin O'Connell can't make that argument because that man's got the rings and he's an NFL icon, all-time great coach. You're not there. You haven't won a playoff game. And if I'm the Wills, that's what I'm saying is that you're proven enough to get more than Ben Johnson

and that in the free market, you would get an enormous contract, but you're not going to get more than Ben Johnson and that in the free market, you would get an enormous contract, but you're not going to get the same as guys with rings. And I think that that is probably fair. I just feel like this is a fairly straightforward negotiation with him where it is a little bit interesting is if you pay your head coach $15 million, I guarantee you you're not paying your general manager 15 million dollars and the second contract for these leaders if assuming they're going to go forward with both guys as they should how does the dynamic work in the second contract as opposed to the first where both quesia da fomenta and ke and Kevin O'Connell were completely unproven, but now you're going to have a top five highest paid coach and a general manager who I think

everyone will, will ask like, who's got the power, who's calling the shots. Is it Kevin O'Connell that has said, I am the captain. Now I run this boat or does the power still get distributed equally in a collaboration situation? But does Kevin O'Connell want that? Or does he want more roster power? I'm always just intrigued by these things because when anything in the environment changes, something is going to be different. There's going to be some kind of ripple effect.

And where does it all go from here? So I think that that part is interesting. But speaking of O'Connell, Manny, if you were to watch the divisional round games and see who's going to the conference championship, and then Kevin O'Connell called you and he said, Manny, man, I love that Monday and Thursday live stream. What do you think I should learn? He talks with his headphones on, actually. It's a strange thing he does, just like this. What do you think I should learn about coaching my football squadron from watching those divisional round games, Manny?

What do you think? That the short passing game can do you a lot of favors when you don't have an offensive line that is of an elite level um even even in the case of having a mobile quarterback that can get away from pressures and extend plays like a jayden daniels has been able to do in washington you could see like cliff kingsbury still implemented a lot of plays where jayden daniels was able to get rid of the football very quickly wasn't holding on to the ball too long now in certain situations where he did hold on to the ball a lot longer sure jayden daniels is a terrific athlete he can escape and extend plays and roll out

and make things happen and take off and run, and that's all good. That's what makes him fantastic. And, oh, by the way, that kid's going to be scary to watch for the next decade. Buckle up, NFC East. Have fun going up against that guy twice a year. But still, the short passing game, I think, still has a lot of value in today's NFL,

especially when you get to this point of the year where defensive lines are just wearing out offensive lines. These guys play so many games during the season, the bodies get beat up, and sometimes you're just going to run into a situation where your offensive line is not going to be able to just stonewall a defensive front, especially a defensive front lab. We saw yesterday in Philadelphia and on the opposite side with the Los Angeles Rams as well. Just, you know, even in the case of Kansas City on Saturday against Houston, they got after C.J. Stroud a lot with Chris Jones and Carl Loftus and those guys. Your front, that front four, that rush, that pass rush, a lot of times this time of the year is just going to overwhelm your offensive line. And do you have the right scheme in place to be able to have your quarterback get rid of the ball quickly um and that's something i think klc is going to have to to learn and evolve and he's a smart

enough guy i think he can do that but it's kind of a thing like eventually we're going to need to see it because both times where you've gotten in the when you've gotten to the playoffs kevin you've kind of been undone by the pressure that the opposing team's defensive line was able to put on your quarterback and your quarterback just not being able to make a play because he just couldn't get out of that pressure and couldn't handle it. So whether it was Kirk Cousins or Sam Darnold, that was kind of an issue. So that's definitely something that KOC, I think what Kevin O'Connell has to understand is that when you get to the playoffs, there is no guard that you can sign in free agency. Who's going to make you be able to stop the Rams pass rush. And it's the Rams now,

but it was the 49ers before. And we saw this in 2019 where the Vikings offense in 2019 was good. I mean, that year, Gary Kubiak, Kevin Stefanski, Delvin cook, they built off the run. They hit deep shots. They were a legit offense. They were top 10. And when they got into the playoffs, it's funny because throughout the year, i made the comparison when we would pick the schedule and you would have them at like 12 wins or something and say you know what this kind of reminds me of 19 where they're flawed and we know it but they're pretty strong and they're winning games of the regular season and we're always asking how good are they really and it turned out the same exact result which was a nasty nasty, nasty defensive line. Cause I think in 19, they had,

they would have had Bosa, but also they would have had to force Buckner who just ate the Vikings lunch. And it was the same problem. And then of course we went, ah, well, if you only, you would invested more in guards. And that sounded great until I watched Rams Eagles and here's the Rams just destroying the Eagles in pass protection. Makai Becton, who is a top free agent and is six foot 20 and 7,000 pounds is getting run over by these beasts and not only getting run over, but something that has really stood out to me, Manny in the playoffs. And really this year with great defensive lines, is these rush plans are so complicated that offensive linemen just can't pick through them. The play where Jared Verst got his back,

Becton's trying to block, and Verst comes up in some sort of inside rush and just drills the guard and then goes to the quarterback. The Vikings have been doing this too with blitzers, where you don't even rush the quarterback straight up the field. You're going and hitting a guard to try to create a lane for somebody else. And it worked great for the Vikings. They got 49 sacks. If teams have any idea what they're doing up there and they're throwing stunts and twists and blitzes and everything else, you're just not going to be able to stop them in the playoffs period. And I don't think it's any shock that the quarterbacks who are in the final four are the best escape artists, the best runners. I mean, Josh Allen

is, and Patrick Mahomes are just legends of the game when it comes to scrambling playmaking. How about the other day they sent a corner blitz and the guy grabbed onto Josh Allen. And it was like you, when you're a little kid grabbing on to your parents leg and just being dragged across the living room. Like that's what it looks like. They can't sack them. And the, the lions, they sent a corner blitz and Jaden Daniels, who has eyes in the back of his head. He just ran away from a corner at full speed and escaped. You got to have answers. And the Vikings are not, no matter who their quarterback is,

going to have that kind of answer. So where does it come from? Well, Saquon ran for 200 yards. The Vikings had a couple good runs against the Rams, but they never would stick with them. And the thing I'm concerned about this off season for the Vikings Manny is when I look at that list of free agent running backs and go, I just don't see anybody. I mean, Aaron Jones could come back. Rico Dowdle is kind of interesting from the Dallas Cowboys.

They screwed around with Ezekiel Elliott last year when they should have just play, play Dowdle. But aside from that, it's not inspiring. And one very low key thing that happened this year that I think really was, was bad for the Vikings is that they went from being intrigued by Ty Chandler and like, look at this guy runs this four, three, and he's so fast and explosive. He went, I went back and look at this 2023, he went for like 400 yards of four and a half yards to carry. And we thought, okay, next step. Not only was it not the next step, it was like, we hate you and don't ever try to touch the field. That's your most explosive big play running back who they drafted and then decided that they couldn't stand the sight of him.

And that, I guess, I just won't really fully understand. Cause I don't know what the plays are. There must be one things that he's missing, but that was a big blow to them because that was the guy who was supposed to kind of be the next in line after Aaron Jones. I don't know the answer to how the Vikings figure out a run game next year that could counter a pass rush like the Rams have. And they call Gary. Rick Denison, man, Rick Denison was, he was kind of the mastermind behind the offensive line.

I mean, that's that, that's another part of it. Of course, their run scheme. It's, it's a mid zone handoff inside zone it's a pitch it's an inside zone it's a pitch there's just not a lot of moving parts to the thing yeah i mean i think because of what you pointed out about sort of the free agent market for running backs that might just have to be the route that you go is that you you

maybe tweak make a tweak to your coaching staff and bring somebody in that really can focus on bolstering up this running attack and then if you're able to do that if you're able to sort of turn it into a more potent scheme then maybe it's it's it's not quite as important who that running back is. Maybe you can stand to bring back Aaron Jones and Cam Akers and just let that be your two-headed monster of a running game. And if you've implemented a more conducive running scheme that can have those guys have success, then maybe you don't have to worry as much about what the free agent market is, is going to be like for running backs. But to that point, I mean, because the, the market is

kind of dry, how much money is, how much money are guys like Aaron Jones and camp makers going to want? Because those guys enter free agency, those are going to be some of the top names available and they might tend to get a little bit overpaid and it might be sort of priced out of what you're willing to pay for a running back and then now you got to start you know dipping into sort of a bargain bin a free agency or you might have to invest a draft pick or something you know in like the fifth round or something on a running back and i don't know if you really want to do that with some of the other needs that you have so um i think that's going to be something we're going to have to look at is just can we make a tweak to the coaching staff to sort of change things up a little bit with our run scheme and see if that kind of bolsters the running game. standpoint like that has to be a focus you know what i mean not not just you know maybe making a tweak to your coaching staff but like there's got to be more of an emphasis on hey we are kicking

their ass in the running game right now let's just stick with this because it's working let's not go away from it just because on first down we handed it off to our guy and he only got two yards and now we completely just want to throw up by the wayside never run again that's that can't be how it works let me try something and this is only trying something okay this is not something i believe in because now i realize on the show that i have to clarify every single thing before i say it so let me just clarify that i'm just trying on an argument maybe like you go into the store and you don't think you're going to buy that Prince jacket, but you put it on.

You're like, how does this feel? How do I really look at a Prince jacket? Bad would be the answer for me. But here's what I'm going to try. Prince guitar, though, I could look pretty good with. Drafting or running back in the first round. Now, immediately, everybody's face turns green. You don't want that. You want the defensive tackle. You want the corner and I'm with you. Let me try

it though. When I look at what Jameer Gibbs has brought to the Detroit lions and even to a large extent, B. John Robinson, who hasn't been quite as good as people expected him to be. But still, if that offense has a competent quarterback who didn't throw the ball to the other team all the time, they're winning that division and their run game is dangerous and all those things with B. John and with Gibbs, he has been a franchise changer for them. If there's so much pass rush, because here's what I'm thinking. In the early 2000s, there was this thing of older, great quarterbacks that were kind of leaving the league. And there was a lot of great pass rushers coming in like Javon curse and guys like that.

And one of the ways to work around that, the pass rush and the shortage of quarterbacks was to have Sean Alexander or to have priest homes or, or whoever it might be. And a lot of the offenses kind of went back to building off of the run game. And we've seen that. I mean, look at these teams. These are three of the top four rushing attacks. The other team has my homes and some of that big part is the quarterbacks. All right. You're not going to have that, but if it's gentee, if it's Omari and Hampton from the North Carolina Tar Heels, if you get somebody special back there, truly first round talent, special, not just, Hey, Hey, here's a 30 year old Aaron Jones who can still kind of do it, but a game changer who can break big runs like

Saquon Barkley. Is it worth it? Because you're probably going to have to win with your offense at the end of the day. I like it. I think the thing that will always give me pause though is how if that guy is going to be special because i thought i thought trent richardson was going to be special just watching him at alabama you know what i mean and then he was was he the third pick in the draft and he just he was gone and out of the league in just a couple years years. He just wasn't good at all.

So that's the hard part. But every once in a while, we talk about Jameer Gibbs and how special he is as a talent. Obviously, Vikings fans know how special a talent Adrian Peterson was. The Vikings had already signed Chester Taylor in free agency the year before, gave him a four-year contract. The Vikings had a signed Chester Taylor in free agency the year before, gave him a four-year contract. The Vikings had a running back already, and Chester Taylor was coming off like a 1,200 or 1,300-yard season as well in his first year with the Vikings.

They drafted Adrian Peterson anyway because he was special. Now, Adrian's a little bit of a different case because I think it was as clear as day to everybody that he was. Adrian was just different. He was built different. We had never seen anything like him play that position. So it was a little bit easier to tell that he was going to be, you know, a Hall of Fame caliber, just a special player. But I think nowadays it's kind of hard to it's harder to tell like that guy that's going to be just special.

I mean, I, I thought Jameer Gibbs would be pretty good. I didn't think this, this kid's going to, if he keeps doing this, he's going to be wearing a gold jacket. Like this guy's unbelievably good, unbelievably explosive. That's, that's going to be the real challenge though, is just the, the idea of it. It seems right, but I just, it's, it's hard to tell because if, unless that guy's going to be special, it's not something that you really ever want to do. Right.

And that kind of goes for a lot of those types of positions where people have praised Brad Holmes for that pick. They praise him now, but on draft night, they were perplexed by it because if the guy doesn't become great, then you just spent a pick on a position that you can replace pretty easily. I think that I've started to evolve in my thinking about the running back position as the game is evolving and his teams are playing two deep safeties all the time against Justin Jefferson. They're not going to suddenly start bringing safeties up into the box. I promise you you're going to face two deep every single time. And the fact that they haven't been able to run with the way defenses are playing them is

even more of a failure. And not to mention that even their yards per carry looked okay for Jones and acres. But if you never run in short yardage situations, your yards per carry is going to look a little bit better anyway. That's, but I've started to evolve with the way defenses and defensive lines are playing because with all these stunts and twists and blitzes, if you catch them in one,

that's where big plays happen. And I think that's what happened on one of those Saquon big runs was they brought everybody up to the line of scrimmage. They start rushing from one side and then, oh, whoops, we left a wide open gap for him to explode through. So I think that there is more value now at that position than there was. If and only if you have everything to support that, if you draft a Bijan Robinson, hoping he can be your offense.

No, that's not going to work. But if you have a Jefferson and Addison, a Hawkinson, and they need to build an offensive line who can block for this, but Darasol is there, get Tevin Jenkins or Trey Smith or whoever it is. And suddenly that guy can come alive. The problem is though, with that position is if you draft one in the first round and you ignore corner and you ignore guard and you ignore defensive tackle, and that guy turns out to be just okay. Or average. I mean, he's gotta be great. That's like what you're saying. If you draft a corner who turns out to be just okay. Or average. I mean, he's got to be great.

That's like what you're saying. If you draft a corner who turns out to be average, you're like, great. We drafted a starting corner. He can play. If you draft a running back in the first round and he doesn't turn out to be great, then you are going to look like a fool. And it's hard to see Kweisi Adafo-Mensa going from like making a lot of mistakes in the draft and so forth in recent years and then saying you know what I'm going to do I'm going to draft the position everybody says you shouldn't draft in the first round it's hard to see happening but I think the

value on the upside is a lot more than it used to be when we talked about don't ever draft these guys well and that's that's where I'm struggling with somebody like Ashton Gentry, who I like. And obviously the numbers at Boise State this past year were tremendous. And he was a Heisman candidate. And he was great. Put up all those numbers. But the other side of it is he did it in the Mountain West.

And then you get to the college football playoff and he's going up against a team like Penn State a really good defensive team and they completely shut him down so now you're kind of wondering like all right well this guy was a great college running back and he might be pretty good in the NFL but is he he going to be special? That's where I'm kind of wondering. And I don't know. I'm not saying one way or the other as far as Ashton Gentry is concerned. I just don't know. You know what I mean?

Sometimes you just have to let it kind of play out and see. And we see guys get drafted in the second, third, fourth, fifth round as running backs and end up having really nice careers. So I don't know what Ashton Gentry is going to be like as a pro. And that's kind of what makes it scary about taking somebody like him potentially in the first round is that you just don't really know how special and great he's actually going to be. And if you had 18 draft picks in the first couple of rounds,

then that would be fine if they were going to do that. And that's something that gets forgotten about that. Detroit is, Hey, look, I just want to say the tanking for some teams has really worked in Washington is one of them. And it also,

it also was part of them drafting Jameer Gibbs, because when you have eight other picks in the first two rounds, you can take a luxury type of pick. You could take the best playmaker with the football out there, even if though you're going to get criticized because you've got another first rounder in two early seconds or whatever they had that year when they took Laporta and Campbell and Brian branch, what a draft for them.

But they also had a million picks to use, which the Vikings don't have a million picks. So now you have to try to get somebody who's a foundational player. And this is where I wonder what Kevin O'Connell's opinion on that would be, because the last great running back for the Vikings was a high draft pick, and that was Dalvin Cook. And the last great running back before that was a high draft pick and Adrian Peterson. And when there was a run of guys who had been fifth round picks or undrafted guys who popped up and were great running backs, I think we all said like, Oh yeah, you can get them anywhere, but things do change. And recently the higher paid running backs, Henry and Barkley and Jones, to some extent, we're all really good this

year. And the draft picks have been major impact players and it may have just changed the landscape. So just putting that first round running back jacket on, I didn't think that it was quite for me, but I also didn't think I looked as bad in it as I would have expected. I still think that defensive tackle, and this is another takeaway from what has happened in the playoffs. Interior rush is just an absolute menace to deal with. And if you've got it, then you have your weight in gold and whether it's free agency or whether it's the draft, it's gotten exhausting and look credit to people like Bullard and Tillery. They gave them their money's worth in spades this year, top run defense, like all credit to those guys. That's a million

dollars for a defensive tackle who gave you a ton of snaps and did their job and moved bodies and stuff like jonathan bullard doesn't get enough credit you need somebody to get in that backfield and to penetrate on the on the line and i think that really helped a team like washington in the playoffs and it's helped philadelphia look at jaylen carter absolutely Absolutely. Carter was a monster yesterday. He won the game. He won the game for them. Like that's the type of player that they need to focus on. So if they got to the draft and what do they have? 24th pick, you get to number 24 and it's the top DT versus the top running back.

I'm going to take the top defensive tackle. They're just so hard to replace. And I also think that there will be good running backs in the third round. That might be the sweet spot for that. But I just think if you have, if you have that defensive tackle, you are an absolute problem for everybody that you face. A hundred percent. You know, I mentioned Jalen Carter. You talked about, you know, Jared verse for the Rams. I mean, we've been talking about chris jones on the kansas city side being just an absolute beast for like six seven years now i mean he's just and it still feels

like we don't talk about him enough with how great and impactful a player he is on that defense um but yeah i mean that was one of the things that you and I kind of talked about a little bit low key over the course of the season. But as we're watching things kind of play out for this Vikings defense and we saw moments where they would kind of get gashed by Jared Goff, Matthew Stafford, you know, Jordan Love at times in games, you're kind of left thinking, man, Van Ginkle was close and couldn't quite get there. Imagine if they had a defensive tackle. That could just be an absolute menace. That could just push back the opposing team's center all the way back right into the face of a quarterback and just disrupt things and make things happen.

Even if they're not actually finishing and getting sacks, you're just making it harder for a quarterback. And for those quarterbacks that you're going up against that aren't quite as mobile, guys like Jared Goff, guys like Matthew Stafford, we kind of saw, like with Stafford yesterday, we saw what that kind of has, what kind of impact that has on even a guy like him who has been dialed in and has been really a really good quarterback with Sean McVay for the last,

you know, four years, you get Jalen Carter in his face and even Matthew Stafford can't do anything with that. And it showed yesterday. So, yeah, I mean,

that's, that's a position I've been looking at for this defense for a long time of just get a guy that can get that can that can be the the Keem Hicks for somebody else. For once in our lives of watching Vikings football, how many times have we seen these guys wreak havoc on Vikings offensive lines, interior, the center of the guards just getting plowed over by these guys? It would be nice to see the Vikings have a player like that of their own. Okay. So every Monday you have picked the schedule or pick the playoffs. We've got two games left for you to do,

but first the show has sponsors, which is great. And again, if you want to support the show, the newsletter, I've just started releasing my future of the Viking series. Quarter quarterback is today. So go over to purple insider.football every day for the next two weeks, there will be a different positional analysis, free agent options, draft options, cap space, all that stuff that you like.

So go over there. It is the future of the Viking series, purpleinsider.football. Also, this show sponsored by HIMSS. And look, if you're concerned about the old hair loss, which does happen, and I'm a hat guy for a reason. So if you are too, then I may have a solution for you. Called HIMSS, if you've lost your hair, it doesn't mean that you can't find it again. Try HIMSS hair loss solutions, and you'll be joining hundreds of thousands of subscribers who have also found their hair again.

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an online consultation with a healthcare provider who will determine if a prescription is appropriate restrictions apply. See website for more details. Again, hims.com slash purple insider and i've got some exciting news manny i uh and i'm sorry for the hair loss thing when you're co-hosting the show it's it's over for you but it's not over for everybody okay if you're on the edge uh but uh i as halfway through that read i was like man he's just probably smiling at me because

uh even as you were reading i kind of dipped my head down i was kind of pointing like yeah you know it's been oh it's been a wrap for me i'm 40 now it's been a wrap for me since i was like 25 so it's all good the the bald and beard is good for you but um anyway so here's the so here's the here's the other news from one of our sponsors. I was a winner in wildcard weekend. I didn't even realize it until I just checked. I won six dollars in a wildcard weekend fantasy on underdog fantasy. You know what? No matter what the number that pops up when you see it green, you won.

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Call 1-800-GAMBLER or ncpgambling.org. So, you know, Daniel says that six bucks, buy some Diet Dr. Peppers. That's true. Feel free to sponsor the show, Diet Dr. Pepper. All right, let's pick these games, Manny. Let me get you some music here. And we can decide who we think is going. And we'll have a lot more on this, of course, on Thursday night.

You should pick them. So, my friend, what a time to be alive at Arrowhead. Who do you think wins that game? This is like Brady and Manning going up against each other in the playoffs. It just happened a million times with Mahomes and Allen now. Listen, a few weeks ago,

I picked the entire playoff schedule and I had the Buffalo Bills in the Super Bowl. And I know just last week I said I'm not going to pick against Mahomes, so I'm kind of talking out of two sides of my neck here but I'm gonna go with the Buffalo Bills I'm gonna take Buffalo I think at some point it's like and I kind of said this last year too it's kind of like if you don't do it this year Buffalo when are you gonna do it you know know, so I think this is as good a chance as any for Buffalo to get it done. Kansas City has just been getting by.

You know, I mean, they're such a great team. There's just such a great culture there and leadership and coaching and Mahomes being great, Kelsey being great. But they've just been getting by, even for as well as their defense was good this past weekend, Houston was kind of hanging around. They were kind of there in a couple plays here, a couple plays there. It might have been a different finish.

Something feels kind of special about this Buffalo Bills team. I don't know what it is, but I'm going to ride with them, and I'm going to pick the Bills to go to the Super Bowl. This is a tough one because the Bills' defense is banged up. And they had a few more guys from that game get hurt. And in the second half of the game, Lamar moved the ball. If only Mark Andrews could catch it. They had big runs.

And Kansas City can have those long drives. And all of a sudden, Travis Kelsey, who looked very old during the season, comes alive against the Texans. The Chiefs have a good defense. They have a good pass rush. They have probably the best corner in the game, which is Trent McDuffie, and they have home field advantage,

which has played out really well in this playoffs. I think it's eight of 10 games have gone to the home team, and Washington is the only team that has won on the road, but the bills have the best player of this season. And if we include playoffs, the best player of this season, because it was neck and neck with Lamar. He clearly outplayed Lamar in that game.

I don't know. I think that, I think that they could play with them. They beat them earlier this year that they could play with them they beat them earlier this year they can play with them uh so it's hard to pick buffalo because of where they got to play and because of the lore of the chiefs and all that but i think that they're the better team on the nfc side can washington pull off the improbable against the Philadelphia Eagles in Philly, which the fights in the stands are going to be wild.

Wild. I'm going to pick the Eagles to win this game. But after seeing what Washington has done in these two playoff games, especially this past weekend, Nothing should shock me anymore. So I'm going to pick the Eagles because they're at home because they certainly on paper are the better team. Jalen hurts. Got a little banged up in that game over the weekend.

Something to kind of monitor as well. How effective will he be in terms of running the ball? Saquon obviously is a beast but there's a quarterback in Washington who's also a beast and going to be a beast for a long time so I think Washington will make this very close I think Washington could even have a lead in the fourth quarter of this game but I think something's going to happen that's going to work in Philadelphia's favor Saquon's going to break off an explosive run that's going to ultimately put them in the super bowl so i'm going to take the eagles i think what this one comes down to and this is the worst analysis i'll give of the year

is does jalen hurts protect the football yeah because it was a little bit wonky there with the rams game and he took a ton of sacks. He didn't turn it over, but it didn't look good. And something has been wrong all year with him and A.J. Brown. He could not find A.J. Brown in that game. And if Matthew Stafford completes one more pass, or if they throw a flag, if that throw is closer to Pukunakula, they throw a flag because it was a clear grab by Darius Slay. If they do that and the Rams win that game,

then we are talking about what the heck happened with Hurts and A.J. Brown and why can they not connect anymore? That's a concern for them is that their passing game was just mid this year. It was middle of the pack in the NFL. Washington had a top-notch passing game and has a quarterback who can scramble better than matthew stafford now the weather suddenly becomes a thing the weather was a huge factor in the game if there's another snowstorm in philadelphia which by the way real quick worst

opinions that i saw on social media of all time about snow games. Well, how can a league that's worth $700 billion come down to who slides around in the snow? But oh my gosh, this is football, my friends. This is football. What are we talking about here? That was magical. It was so, so good. Anyway, the cinematography of it

with the snow coming down and people fumbling and hitting each other. What are we talking about here? The scene in both games yesterday were absolutely gorgeous. In Buffalo, too, it was just beautiful to see that snow and just seeing elite, elite talented quarterbacks play in that weather and conditions as well. It was great. I loved it.

We can't just make everything perfectly fair and somebody sent me a tweet because i was kind of making fun of people like that and they're like well you know it's not even or whatever i'm like look you know you're not going to convince the person who grew up in buffalo that playing in the snow is bad this is great okay so they're going to eliminate it someday enjoy it while we've still got it but it could be a factor if the weather is problematic for Jaden Daniels scrambling or, you know,

depending on the run game, how they're able to block it up. Sam Cosme has hurt. He is an $18 million guard for Washington. And I don't think he's going to play. And they have Jalen Carter and et cetera, like seven other guys. I would,

I would probably go with the Eagles here and an Eagles and Bills Super Bowl, which would be pretty good. I was talking about the other day, right after the games, my reaction, that there's only one combination no one wants to see, and that's Philadelphia and Kansas City. Nobody wants that.

Absolutely nobody wants that. Yep. Granted, it was a great game. It was a great game two years ago it was phenomenal game but yeah it's gonna and I kind of felt that way about like last year's game too and last year's game was great too but it was kind of like ah Niners Chiefs we've seen that already do we want to see that again it's kind of the same thing with the Eagles Chiefs here too I'm not sure I really want to see that matchup again. I'm always going to be on the side of teams that haven't won before, underdogs, teams that totally shock us by rising up the ranks and so forth.

And certainly on the side of. And there's just another dynamic to Buffalo and Washington. If you are a fan of that franchise in DC, I, you just have been through hell with how bad the ownership was just, just a comedy show over how many years. And it's very similar to Buffalo. They were the same way, just laughing stocks. And then Daniel Snyder, the worst guy in the world is out and they bring in their new leadership and somehow magic Johnson is just around championships all the time. What does it win that? How do we get magic Johnson to invest in purple insider?

Because then I'll just become like a multimillionaire instantly because wherever the guy goes, there's just tons of success, but they bring in smart leadership and all of a sudden, bang, there you go. You are in the NFC championship, but it would be great to see them get rewarded for that for a, and Dan Quinn too. I just get so frustrated when somebody like Dan Quinn, who's clearly a great coach in Atlanta, and he gets hired in Washington. And a lot of the reaction is just fluffed. Yeah. I mean, just a retread. That's not who we want to remember. Like, wait a minute, that guy took a team to a Superbowl. He's a great leader. And for him to get rewarded like this has been very cool to see as well.

It's because of how that Superbowl finished though. That's the only reason why people did, because all he blew a 28 to three lead, but it's like he was in the super bowl. He was there, you know, like just an incredible coaching job by him this year. So anyway, well, we'll see how it all plays out on Thursday.

We will get more hardcore into Vikings off season and these games games will get a little more preview-y in these games. And then, you know, I was thinking forward a little bit, Manny, and I got excited the other day. Because last year, when we were leading up to the Super Bowl, we did Super Bowl trivia. And you just, you were the Rams defensive line of Super Bowl trivia. You annihilated it. So this year I'm going to put together some more Superbowl trivia for you. And I can't wait for that in a couple of

weeks. So we've got a lot to talk about here. Uh, things will be shaking out in the coaching ranks. And the last thing I wanted to mention is just that there doesn't seem to be any Brian Flores buzz. He's had a lot of interviews and less Frazier showed up today with an interview. That was surprising in Dallas. There doesn't seem to be a lot of buzz for Brian Flores. The expectation right now is that he's going to be back as the defensive

coordinator, which would be huge for them, but that's something we'll be keeping an eye on along with whatever else might play out in the, the coming weeks. So thanks everybody for watching slash listening. Manny will, uh, talk again on Thursday night and we'll see you all then go enjoy the rest of the national championship football.