Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - The first QB rankings of the year and the coolest Vikings QBs

Episode Date: May 10, 2023

Matthew Coller, Jonathan Harrison and Manny Hill discuss whether the Vikings are getting closer to being a championship contender, the coolest Vikings QBs of our lifetimes and a QB ranking list by ESPN's Mike Clay Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There's news in the NFL today, and it's time to break it down in the only way we know how. Hot Rod style. Earl! Johnny! With our spin on football headlines with a mix of frozen tundras. Let's be a cold weather team. Neck rolls. And grass stained Jerseys. The good old-fashioned guts was probably the biggest difference in the game.

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Hot Routes. Matthew Collard here along with Jonathan Harrison is always in. Joining us, yes, if you're watching on YouTube, that is Manny hill's big head in the middle what is going on manny i we always have after big events we always have to get you on hot routes i know it's your favorite i'm glad you could make some time amongst your busy social schedule to uh join us what's up buddy well for the listeners matthew collars giving me a hard time because i literally just walked back into my apartment after enjoying some sushi. So him and Jonathan both told me that they're not a fan, which is very disappointing because I'm a huge sushi fan. But, you know, and yes, my head is very big.

I'm not going to argue food takes with people. You like what you like. It's just not really my type of thing and uh you know what it's glad i'm glad that you actually were out with people rather than re-watching the 1994 season on youtube again so from time to time but uh we've had a draft lots different things going on in the nfl lots still to go with the minnesota v particular. So we're going to break down a bunch of topics, including one former Viking passing away and lots of other things going on. Let me get a broad take from you, Manny, because you and I haven't discussed it really

about the Vikings draft in general. Like what, what did you think? Were you a fan? Do you wish that they took Will Levis? Like like what how did you feel about well well you already know per uh per private text messages that you and i have exchanged over the last few months that i wasn't super high on will levis um so i wasn't bothered at all that they that they passed on him i thought the jordan addison pick was was really sound i mean you you let go of adam feeling you're to have to fill that spot somehow. I mean, obviously, Adam Thielen wasn't the same player that he was, you know, three, four years ago. But, you know, you're going to have to replace 70 catches and, you know, 700, 800 yards of production.

And I think Jordan Addison's a guy that can step in right away and, you know, give you something. And we always talk about the more weapons you have, especially for a quarterback like Kirk Cousins, the more weapons, the more options you have in the passing game, the better your offense is going to be. We've seen it time and time again in the league for going on decades now. Some of the best teams have had multiple really good wide receivers. I thought the draft was sound. We'll see how some of the other guys go in the later rounds. I think after last year, everybody was kind of like, what's up with this draft class? It wasn't great. This is a chance for Kwesi to kind of redeem

himself a little bit. There's still a chance for last year's guys to kind of develop. So we'll see. But I thought the Addison pick was really sound. It made a lot of sense. Yeah, well, both of you guys know for how many years have I been like, draft more receivers. Why are you not drafting all the receivers? And then when they actually took Jordan Addison, I was like, they did.

They didn't mess around by trading down and thinking while you still be there we'll trade down to the first pick of the second round and he'll still be there like they just took him it was great right there was a part of me that thought they're gonna trade down and take a linebacker or something just so my head can officially explode but Kwesi went uh analytics gm at least on that uh Jonathan any questions for Manny before we get into these hot routes sushi I just never would have pictured Manny Hill as a sushi guy I'm still stuck on that part oh yeah no that was great it was uh it was a local establishment about uh 10 or so ish minutes away from where I live so there's no judgment.

I just never pictured you as a sushi man. Sorry, man. Sorry, Manny. Manny's a complicated guy. That's the thing. He doesn't only watch old football. He's got a lot to him. We just never bothered to figure out

what the other things about Manny there was. We watch Link's game. We go to Linkx games together talk about football it's like wait manny has other hobbies yeah i like sushi i watch law and order i you know that's it's all i have a very i don't want to say eclectic but i have a very wide range of interests outside of sports it's true yeah well let's not focus on any of those for the next like 45 minutes or so. Why don't we stick to your strength here? So let's begin on this though, Manny.

I wrote an article today and anytime I can promote other things I'm doing, I will. So I just, I wrote about whether the Vikings are closer or farther away from a championship in both the context of right now and for later. And Kevin Cole, who used to be with PFF and now works for his own thing, Unexpected Points, he included a chart that showed kind of the plus minus of what's been gained and lost through the offseason. No surprise, the Vikings are on the minus side. I mean, they lost Delvin Tomlinson.

You mentioned Adam Thielen, Eric Hendricks. They're replacing these guys with inexperienced players or Dean Lowery in the defensive line and some other guys that they brought in. But there's also a long-term element of it as well. The quarterback position is still up in the air, but they did not extend Kirk Cousins. So in your opinion, are they closer or farther away from being a championship team from where they were last year? I kind of feel like they're about the same. You know, I think I say that because, you know, they lost some players on defense. They did go and, you know, they were kind of active in free agency,

getting some guys in, bringing in Marcus Davenport, Byron Murphy and, and, and, you know, guys like that. And I do think that adding Brian Flores in as defensive coordinator is almost going to make your defense better just by default, because I don't think it could have gotten much worse than what it was last year under Ed Donatel. But then you also have to think about, OK, well, Adam Thielen is gone.

You know, I like I just said a minute ago, I like the Jordan Addison pick, but there might be some early growing pains with him. I mean, he's he's very young. He's inexperienced. You know, him and Kirk Cousins are going to have to get on the same page. So there is sort of that question of, all right, how much better will the offense be? The defense should be better by default, but the schedule is also going to be tougher this year. So it kind of feels like they're about where they were last year, but I don't necessarily think that that's a bad thing. I think it feels like now that Kwesi and KLC have gotten a year under their belt. Now with this franchise, there's a real kind of plan going forward of what they really want to do.

So I think with all of that said, it kind of feels like they're, they haven't really moved the needle forward much, but they haven't really gone completely backwards because I think there's a really sound plan in place now. So I'd say they're about the same, not better or worse. That's not, that's not hot enough for hot routes, but you want to turn, you want to turn this up a little hotter, Jonathan, what do you got?

I don't know that I'm going to turn it up hotter because, like, when we had Paul on a couple weeks ago, I kind of agree with Manny here. And it goes back to kind of one of the last things he said and something that one of the listeners and the latest fans only said is that the Vikings have done some moves. They've made some moves in the offseason to help them out, but they haven't really moved the needle at all. And I think they're about the same as last year because of what the rest of the

division has done Packers got rid of Aaron Rodgers so they're probably going to take a step back with Jordan Love unless he's for some reason the third iconic quarterback in a row for Green Bay which is highly unlikely but said that with Aaron Rodgers too so whatever they have some weird magic there in Green Bay but they'll probably take a step back. It feels like Detroit might've missed it with this, with this off season that they've had, especially with that draft that they had, it just left a lot of questions and they could have really upgraded themselves a lot better than they did in that draft. And it just feels like they, they kind of fumbled the bag here with this season being kind of the best chance they have

to win the NFC North in a very long time with the Vikings shedding a lot of older players and relying on a lot of younger guys. I like that aspect of the Vikings offseason. And the Bears will see what they do. Can Justin Field take the next step forward? They've certainly put enough pieces around him to take that step forward,

but it's all up on him now. So it feels like they are in kind of the same territory they were last year, just because of what the rest of the NFC North did. And I don't know how to really feel about that because they, as you pointed out in the article, they went with the quantity over quality approach with defensive backs. They're just throwing a number of bodies at it and seeing what sticks. And I like that approach for the long term. For the short term, it makes me a little iffy. But as Manny said, by default, this defense should be better because it feels like Brian Flores' scheme will fit the pieces he has better than Ed Donatell's was last year. So it feels like they're in the same space.

I'm sorry I'm not going super hot route on this, but it really does feel like they are in the same space, partly because of what they did, but mostly because of what the rest of the NFC North did this offseason. Mildly calm routes is the not as catchy name for the show. Well, you know, I think that some of it's yet to still be determined um if they get to july and get nervous and extend kirk cousins then i will think they went backward because then the pressure is still on to be a win now team the standard is still get back to the

nfc championship and if they don't reach it which i think this year is going to be very tough for them to get to that bar uh or really close, as you mentioned, with the schedule being as tough as it is and the talent that they've seen go out the door, they would need a ton of young players to all click in order for them to suddenly become a really great contender this year. That doesn't mean they can't win the division and it can't meet. It doesn't mean that the competitive rebuild can't be a real thing for them, but setting a standard any higher than that. I included in the article, great article,

purple insider.com really in depth. Feel free to go check it out. And follow me on all social media. No, I'm just kidding. But I included in the article that they are 17th by the Super Bowl odds standard from DraftKings. So they don't think that the people who put money down on this do not think that they are a legitimate contender. In fact, they're only a little bit ahead of the Chicago Bears by the gambling universe.

I think that at least maybe some people are thinking the Bears take a big step forward. That's a little too rich for my blood. But the point just being that no one's really buying them as a contender this year. That's fine, but I think that it could be moved significantly in the direction of toward a Super Bowl because they took a step, not a huge step, but a step toward the next quarterback by not extending Kirk Cousins. And that was a significant move. Now, I know that if he leaves in free agency that, you know, it's of course going to be that big dead cap hit. They're going to have to work around that for a year.

But if you draft a quarterback, you're not winning the Super Bowl in the first year anyway. No one's ever done that as a rookie. So you're going to need to develop that player anyway and then have a chance to build around them. So they did place themselves in a position to do the thing that works. And by drafting Jordan Addison, they put themselves in a position to potentially do the other thing that works, which is having a great offense with tons of weapons. I mean, this is not brought up enough that Brock Purdy, as everyone searches for the next Brock Purdy in the draft, which just I'm going to throw myself off a tall building if I hear that again.

But, like, why was Brock Purdy so successful? He got rid of the ball quick. He understood the Shanahan offense. Apparently he had some cognition score that was great. Oh, also Debo Samuel and Brandon Ayuk and George Kittle and Trent Williams. They have this amazing team. He's like a Case Keenum last year.

So I think that they have really done a lot to build up an amazing set of weapons on offense that they can keep for a long time, potentially, and put the next quarterback into it. It's just that if they get cold feet and extend Kirk then we're really going to be talking about okay you didn't move the needle at all in fact it went backwards because you did not instantly become a better team reaction that was pretty hot yeah no but i i agree on the kirk cousins front too and that's the thing that's always going to be on

on everybody's mind right is are they going to get to a point where you know like if we go into 2023 and kirk has a good year and they win you know if they win the division at like say like 10 and 7 or something and kirk throws 30 touchdowns and he throws for 4,000 yards again. Are they going to be tempted to just be like, well, we're going to be picking 25th in the draft and we don't know if we have enough to move up to take the young quarterback. Kirk had a good year. There's no real signs of him slowing.

Let's just extend him again. Let's give him a one or two year extension. Don't do that. Don't do that. Please don't do that. The Vikings front office needs to stick to their guns. It seems like they set out their plan this year was to not extend Kirk Cousins. If they were, it was going to be a short-term extension.

He didn't want that for obvious reasons. So if he's not going to accept that, don't give him another contract just because you missed out on, as Tom Palacero reported on the Pat McAfee show today, you missed out on trading up for Bryce Young. Just don't do it. Just stay with this plan of moving on. It seems like moving on from Kirk Cousins this offseason or next offseason and make your route at quarterback from there.

I think if they do that, it'll feel like the ceiling's falling and everything's falling apart around here if they cave and give him another extension. Okay, what was the report? I didn't catch that. What was the report? So Tom Pellicero was on the Pat McAfee show, and he said that the Vikings were trying to trade up in the early rounds or in the early first round to get Bryce Young. But once they realized that he was going to be the first pick, they went away from that trading or up option and stuck with trying to get their offensive weapon, which they did in Jordan Addison. Oh, OK. Well, I mean, Bryce Young has been the number one overall. You'd have to trade up the whole first overall how far did they think they were going to be able to trade up with the lack of ammunition that they really even had

they had five draft picks like yeah exactly how far do they think they're going to move up well and i mean it's like i'm not doubting the reporting i I'm just doubting, like, wait a minute. Is that remotely possible? Because how would that have even happened? As soon as Carolina traded up, they were taking Bryce Young. I think this was very obvious. And they tried to be like, I don't know. Wink, wink, we could possibly. No, they were taking Bryce Young was being taken number one

from, like, the end of the college football season. And there was zero chance he was going to fall like past like four. Like there was no chance. Like, yeah, like it's just like, again, like I don't I don't doubt. I mean, Tom, Tom Bellisero is on it. Like everybody knows that. So I'm not doubting Tom's reporting, but I'm just looking at the Vikings like, how did you guys think you were going to move up to take Bryce Young? That's wild. You will appreciate this, Manny, that I plugged all of their picks

into the Jimmy Johnson chart to see if they traded their whole draft Ricky Williams style, how far it would get them up, and they only got to 16. So trading their whole draft wouldn't have gotten them even a top 15 pick this year. So they would have had to trade three firsts. And yeah, I guess Carolina would rather have their next franchise quarterback, but at least, I mean, it's very clear though, to me that the way they've handled this, and this is why I said cold feet. I mean, the way that they've handled this has just screamed, they're going to be changing quarterbacks.

And something I looked into again in the article was just about like the Super Bowl since 2018 was as far as I decided to go back. But every year and even 2017 had a rookie quarterback contract in Carson Wentz. He just didn't play. And it was Nick Foles instead. But just even going back to 2018, every year has had at least one quarterback playing in the Super Bowl who is being paid under $10 million on the salary cap. And here's a crazy one. Jalen Hurts' salary cap

hit from last year was lower than Chad Henney, the backup quarterback of the Kansas City Chiefs. It was lower. what kind of advantage is that it meant that philly could go out and trade for chauncey gardner johnson trained for james bradbury sign whoever the heck that they wanted to trade for aj brown like that's the advantage we all know that and i think if the vikings are taking real steps to draft their next quarterback next year they're gonna have to put together some more draft capital if they want to trade up for uh caleb williams or drake may but if they're taking those real steps i think they are closer and i think that hiring brian flores makes them closer

because i don't think he's going to get a head coaching job i think that teams are interviewing him to be like no the nfl did nothing wrong regarding blind Flores. We gave him a chance. Not that we'd ever seen anything like that before in the NFL, but I think he's going to be here a while. And I think that's a really good thing for the Vikings. And I also think that the way they're rebuilding the secondary by throwing numbers at it is a really good idea. So I think they're on their way a little bit a little but until we find out for sure where the quarterback situation is going i can't say that it's a lot so needle moved for me but not uh maybe as far as we were thinking going into this offseason

uh next question for you guys joe cap passed away. Legendary cool guy. That's like his thing. Imagine that's your thing. Like that's your legacy. Your legacy was you're a tough, badass, cool guy who got to a Super Bowl once. Not bad. You could do worse than that for NFL legacies. I want to know who your three coolest Vikings quarterbacks are and the three coolest quarterbacks of your lifetime watching football.

Manny. So I went with, the first one I went with was Randall Cunningham. And the reason why I chose Randall is because it's kind of a personal thing. I got a chance to meet Randall in 1998. I went to the season opener against Tampa when Randy Moss took the world by storm. And Randall didn't start the game. He wasn't playing yet. We know how great a season he had that year, but he was still backing up Brad Johnson. And there was that lounge at the Metrodome that, you know, some of the fans could go to and like all the players would usually go to after the game and and kind of hang out and so i went over to uh well first i went over to chris carter asked for an autograph and he just kind of

scribbled on a small piece of paper and handed it to me and walked away which was to 14 year old who loved chris carter at the time that was a little traumatizing but but I digress. But a couple of minutes later, I went up to Randall and just kind of introduced myself and just said, hey, I'm a big fan. I remember watching you with the Eagles, yada, yada. And, you know, I was kind of nervous because of this traumatic event that I just had with Chris Carter kind of blowing me off. So I was kind of nervous. I just kind of reached out my hand to him a little bit. And he kind of looked at me and he said, hey, man, give me some skin, man. And he just kind of gave me a good, like a good, real strong handshake and everything. And it was great. He was just cool and polite and nice. And it was it was great. And then, of course, he went on and had a great

season that year in 98. So Randall Cunningham is one. Dante Culpepper was another one just because of the get your roll on touchdown celebration. That was just the dopest thing ever. And the third guy is Case Keenum, dude. Like Case Keenum coming out of nowhere as a backup in 2017 and leading the Vikings to 13 wins, aided by a great defensive course, care. He just let it roll off the shoulder and just didn't – it just didn't matter to him. To go out and perform the way he did when nobody saw it coming

was really, really impressive. And he was just the coolest dude, man. So it's Randall Cunningham, Dante Culpepper, and Case Keenum for me for Vikings quarterback. How about you, Jonathan? My first two are the same because Randall Cunningham, that 98 season, was kind of like the first season I can fully remember as a kid, as an 8-year-old growing up, watching that season on TV just every week.

The Vikings team was just so much fun to watch, and he was the quarterback. And that was one of my first true seasons that I can remember from start to finish that was just so fun to watch. Second one, Dante Culpepper, just as you said, the get your roll on, just the size of him as a quarterback, you never really saw that up until Dante played that position, and it was so much fun to see a guy the size of a linebacker just trucking through dudes on the defense when he ran,

and then just being able to just launch the ball 70 yards was just incredible to watch. Just throw it up to Randy, and he'll go get it. It was awesome to see that. For me, my third one, Case Keenum's up there just because that year was fun. Before all of this broke out with Farr, I would have said him because that season was so much fun. But now because of what's happened kind of ruins what just happened or what happened in that

season. So the third one's a little bit tricky for me and I'm struggling on the spot to come up with one. I love the Case Keenum pick. For some reason, I know his tenure here wasn't that great because it was very short, but Sam Bradford, that game against the Saints in that, the 2017 season, that first game when he was just slinging the ball all over US Bank Stadium and the Saints just, it felt like the Saints couldn't stop him. That was an incredible display. And that, that lives in, in my memory for a very long time. We'll live in my memory for a very long time, just because that felt like the most confident we've ever seen Sam Bradford in his career. Unfortunately, it just fell apart for him because of injuries. But man, that was that was such a fun game.

And it's I think it's up there for me to make him one of the cooler quarterbacks in my my memory anyways. Yeah, I think that Sam Bradford probably got in a way like a bad rep. I mean, for his whole career because of the injuries, but also even that year, I remember people using him to compliment case Keenum like, well, you know, Bradford never would have done this. Like, no, I think he would have. I think that with, with that talent, with that defense and his comfort in the offense and year two with Pat Shermer, who he knew extremely well,

the receivers and we saw the impact that they had. He got along really well with Kyle Rudolph. I mean, the offensive line was shockingly competent that year as well. The running game was good even after Delvin Cook got it. Everything went well that year. I think that Sam Bradford also would have been right there, even though he didn't have the scrambling element. A few other selections, though, left on the table. Of course, I agree. Randall Cunningham, an all-time cool quarterback.

But how about Jim McMahon? I mean, when we're talking legendary, cool gentlemen in this league, wearing the Pete Rozelle thing on his head when he was with the Bears, comes to the Vikings and just puts up garbage stats and yet found ways to win games, get them in the playoffs, just doing Jim McMahon things. How about indoors visor on gloves, like all time, great aesthetic, all time, great leadership from Jim McMahon. Cool that he was a Viking and kind of had that opportunity to turn around a season one year. He deserves to be in there. Teddy Bridgewater, cool in like a, you wish he was your neighbor. Cool kind of way. Like you're, you're getting your mail together and you're like, Hey,

Teddy, how are you? He, that's the kind of cool he was a perfect for a guy from Florida. He kind of had a Midwest Minnesota, nice Tim. Um. But also, you know, a competitor, Mike Zimmer obviously hates quarterbacks. And yet for some reason, Teddy Bridgewater was the guy that he really loved. I think the leadership was a major, major part of that, you know, for Teddy Bridgewater and just one of the most popular players. I mean, you will still see out at training camp, all sorts of Teddy Bridgewater jerseys, even now. And I do think there's like a small passive aggressive element to like see Kirk. You're not what we thought Teddy was going to be, but no, I do think that

there was a huge, huge amount of fans who bought into Teddy super fast. He delivered on it in 2015. He set them up for a 27 yard field goal and then something happened and they didn't go farther in the playoffs i don't recall exactly what happened but uh no i mean so i i think that those two belong in that conversation um someone might say joe webb because there's not too many special teamers who started playoff games i mean he was pretty cool right um so there's yeah i mean farb obviously without considering what's happened since would take the cake as an all-time nfl cool quarterback and i think that in some instances you can separate that and just be like well you know it wasn't that great of a guy or whatever. This is pretty bad.

This is very, very bad. I got relatives in Mississippi, man. It's personal. It drives me crazy, man. It just, they weren't impacted. None of my relatives were impacted by that, but it just, the fact that it just. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, gross. Yeah. Gross. Just disgusting. Yeah. Many, many levels yes exactly and that's not even to mention the other stuff that went on with the you know the whole thing so you know i don't think i could call him the coolest and just but just before you know our era of watching football i

mean tommy kramer anybody who watched football in the 80s wade wilson i think was kind of a low-key cool quarterback the dude just threw it down the field he just let it loose and i didn't see him as a viking i only saw him as a backup quarterback late in his career like the raiders the cowboys but with you know late in the uh you know late in the 80s with him coming in playoff games when tommy kramer would be hurt or ineffective when they used to do that they just bench quarterbacks wade wilson was pretty freaking cool for the guy to come in off the bench so i mean obviously like randall cunningham that 98 season and then it's a funny debate to ask whether like jeff george was cool or just hilarious like just like jeff george was just ridiculous i mean

his everything about him like the eye black, the face masks that had backwards cap with the Falcons when he was with the Falcons. I remember that arguing with June Jones on the sideline. I mean everything. And then just having this unreal year with the Vikings, just like heaving passes to Randy Moss, you know, in the playoffs where they were tripling Randy Moss and he still finds a way to get him a deep touchdown so there's like a little shade of cool there and yeah i i think um

for kurt cousins he kind of has his own little version of that if it had been more successful and if this is a fact about cousins you can't you guys can read with this if it had been more successful then people would have said that he had his own kind of goofy cool to him. Like, oh, he was just the dad quarterback who won the Super Bowl or whatever. If he had gotten them deep in the playoffs, everyone would have said that that whole vibe from him was pretty fun and everything else kind of like it was last year. I think we saw that, that it's really just the fact that it hasn't gone farther that kind of keeps him out of the ranking. Yeah, the Kirko Chains bit with him wearing the chains on the plane ride back from road games was kind of cool.

It was kind of funny. I mean, it's kind of his own like dorky kind of way. And then singing with Kelly Clarkson at the NFL Awards thing was kind of funny. And, you know, Kirk's got some personality to him. Just wanted him to win a few more games. Just win some more games, man. He's got strong Midwest dad vibes, and it fits here because obviously the Midwest. But, yeah, I don't know.

If he won a few more games and got the team farther in the playoffs, I think there would be a lot more love for Kirk cousins than there is right now. No Brooks Bollinger, Todd Bauman on the list. Sorry guys. It just needed it need a certain amount of starts to get on that list. So Kelly Holcomb, no Kelly. Okay. Well let's let's move on to our, to our next question here. I sent you guys a list from Mike Clay because

list season starts as soon as the draft is over usually we got to get through the schedule then everybody makes their quarterback lists and debates it I've had my own rants about quarterback lists and how you should really list the guys who you think are going to actually perform with the best offenses and not just who you think was like good last year and is talented. But that's a whole different rant. Like last year, Jalen Hurts should have been ranked high in the offseason rankings because his supporting cast was great. It was like a thing that was going to happen. Anyway, not the point, not the point.

So I sent you guys both this list from Mike Clay of ESPN ranked all the quarterbacks. And I want you guys to tell me where you think Mike Clay was wrong on this list. And it's on his Twitter. If people want to go look at the whole list. So where was Mike Clay wrong about his list of quarterbacks, Manny? So I know that Russell Wilson was really bad last year. It was really bad. I just have a hard time believing that Daniel Jones is better than Russell Wilson. Like, and we're basing, like, Daniel Jones got paid this offseason. He got his $40-plus million-a-year contract based off of one game because he had a really nice game against the worst defense in football

in the playoffs against the Vikings, and he got paid. He went into Philadelphia the next week, and he looked like Daniel Jones again. So I just have a hard time buying into – and I know he's just one spot ahead of Russell Wilson on, uh, on my Clay's list, but I just kind of feel like Russell Wilson, he's, he's, I don't think he's ever going to be, I don't think, I don't think he's ever going to get back to the level he was, you know, four or five years ago. But I think with Sean Payton being his head coach, now a guy that has experience with

having great offenses with great quarterbacks in the past. I feel like there's an opportunity for Russell Wilson to kind of redeem himself a little bit and get back to being at least a competent quarterback with a halfway decent offense. I just, as good a coach as I think Brian Dable is, I think what we saw to Daniel Jones is the best he's going to be. And I think eventually we saw to Daniel Jones is the best he's going to be. And I think eventually at some point, Brian Dable and the Giants are going to have to look for that actual

quarterback that's going to be there long-term. I just, that's kind of the one that stood out to me. I just have a hard time buying into Daniel Jones being ahead of Russell Wilson. I have a hard time believing Jimmy Garoppolo is down at 20 because he's led a team to the Super Bowl and multiple NFC championship games. Like this is a guy who's done it at a high level, despite the injuries. He's done it at a high enough level

to lead teams far in the playoffs. And he's below guys like Jared Goff. Yes, who's gone to a Super Bowl. He's below Derek Carr. He's below Justin Fields, who had a good running season and yeah, he was an exciting, it seemed like everything else started building up for him last season, but is he really above a guy who's been to a Superbowl and came within a couple of plays of winning said Superbowl? I understand he's on the Raiders and his coach is Josh McDaniels and it's kind of a joke there, but I don't think he deserves to be down at number 20 below Jared Goff, Derek Carr,

Justin Fields, Matthew Stafford, who looked kind of when he was playing last year, didn't look the greatest and injuries keep getting in Matthew Stafford's way. So who knows what the Rams will be this year. I just have a hard time buying that one. That one kind of stuck out to me. I think the list is perfect. I'm not even going to comment on it. Yeah. So the Russell Wilson thing is hard because he was so bad last year. The question is like, was it Nate Hackett has no idea how to coach? Was it Russell Wilson was trying to play through an injury that restricted him? Was it that he can't run like he used to? And when the mobility is gone, he is not a pocket quarterback

because he is shorter than all three of us. I mean, that is a factor when you're talking about that guy. He has always overcome that height by being mobile and creating throwing lanes for himself and finding extra time in the pocket to then throw the ball down the field of which he also didn't have great deep receivers and I don't know that they've really changed that like they didn't go out and get a Tyler Lockett or DK Metcalf like he had in Seattle and I think that that helped him quite a bit as his career went along to have those guys who could go deep and make plays on those throws down the

field. And how much Sean Payton is going to be able to work around that. I don't know that Russell Wilson is like a Drew Brees where he just has this pinpoint accuracy and anticipation and things like that. I don't, I just, I know where you're coming from. And I'm not a buyer to the Daniel Jones thing either, because it was against the Vikings where he had the two games that earned him the contract and they let Mike White throw the ball over them. And they were not good. I also just want to point out that he included backup quarterbacks in his

list just to maybe show us who the team's backups are and the Cincinnati Bengals backups are Trevor Simeon and Jake Browning which just made me laugh like that's that was the Vikings backup quarterbacks like several years ago these backups are just everywhere here's the one that I want to debate though okay so uh Deshaun Watson is at nine I and my thought was like I hope not I hope it's like 27, but I, I want to hear about Aaron Rogers for your take for this. He is seventh on this list. Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Hertz, Herbert, Jackson, and then Rogers. So he's ahead of Trevor Lawrence. He's ahead of Dak Prescott, ahead of Kirk, ahead of, I mean, and Jared Goff, honestly, he's going to throw the

ball all over the place. So I thought Jared Goff was too low on this being 18th. I feel like Jared Goff with that offense is still going to put up some pretty darn big numbers, but do you guys believe that Aaron Rogers can shed off his washedness after, you know, abusing his body with weird teas and locking himself in the dark or whatever for a few years. Like I know they got weapons, but is he going to be one of the seven best quarterbacks in the NFL next year? I don't know that that's a, that's a tough one because, you know, two years ago, Aaron Rogers was great.

He was the MVP of the league. And then you go to last year and you started to see some real signs of like slippage that he was really starting to kind of decline. And it's, I mean, listen, this has happened. We've seen this happen with almost every great quarterback where they get towards the end of their career and they hit that wall where it just things just kind of really unravel we even saw it like you just mentioned drew breeze a little bit ago we even kind of saw it then drew breezes last year where he couldn't really didn't really have the same arm strength couldn't get it down the field like he used to when he was

you know even like in his early 30s um at some point that's going to happen with Aaron Rodgers. And I wonder if, you know, the Jets are maybe getting him a year too late, perhaps, you know, because if they would have had him instead of Zach Wilson starting games for them last year, you know, maybe they I think they certainly would have made the playoffs. But now you just kind of wonder, OK, Aaron's going to turn, he's going to turn 40 in December. And, you know, just because Tom Brady was great at 43, 44 years old, doesn't mean that every quarterback is going to be that when they turn 40. So it'll be interesting to see how that kind of plays out. And, you know, the funny thing is we saw Aaron Rodgers kind of declined a little bit last

year. And he goes to the jets who have some pretty good weapons. You know, Garrett Wilson winning the rookie of the year and everything, but then they go and they like sign, like all his buddies from green Bay that he had to. And it's just like, well, are you really expecting things to be different than what they were last year for just getting all the same people that he was throwing to last year? And I don't know. It'll be interesting. I think he's I think he will be good because he's going to have a dang near top rated defense,

putting him in really good situations where he didn't really have that last year. He's not going to be expected to have to drive 80 yards every single drive. He's going to be put in really good positions because of the defense that the Jets have. And I think that's going to do him a world of good, not having to shoulder the entire load of the entire team every single game. That he can have his poor games every once in a while, but that defense is going to carry them through because of how good it will be. I think that Jets defense is in line, is going to continue rising up and continue being – or going to continue to be a really good defense next season, and it will help Aaron Rodgers and that offense out by putting them in good field positions throughout the season.

How is the media – how is the New York media going to be with him if the Jets start like 0-2? If the Jets lose like two really close games to start the season and he throws a pick that costs them or something in one of the games, what are those post-game conversations going to be like with Aaron Rodgers? Because it's a little different in Green Bay. I mean, you're a big fish in a small pond in Green Bay. The New York media is a little bit different, Aaron. Yeah, I'm of two minds on this because I kind of have a don't doubt the legends rule, like not until they're retired

because we've done this too many times. We thought Rodgers looked a little washed in like 2018 and then won two MVPs after that. We thought Brady looked washed at the end in New England, like, oh, what's Tampa Bay really getting in Brady? Oh, Bowl champion I don't know and uh so yeah you know we've seen enough guy Peyton Manning I mean Peyton Manning's neck was held on by tape and glue and the guy still led uh top offense and then found his way to like right there's been a lot of these resurgences that i don't want to doubt here's the other thing too rogers actually showing up at offseason stuff is the package has to be like the lebron jr smith meme just like what like what are you showing up at offseason stuff for he like cut his hair he looks healthier i don't know maybe going to be good. But I think by all logical purposes, putting my legends rule aside, I don't know.

It feels like they're chasing last year a little. Like defenses are volatile. I agree, Jonathan. They have a lot of talent. Sauce Gardner's fantastic. But oftentimes we saw this, like just how the Vikings chased the 2017 defense. The next year it was good, but not great. And then everything kind

of changed and the AFC just has so many freaking good quarterbacks like could you be a good team and win eight games in the AFC because it's just a monster of course you could so I don't know I I saw him not making some plays that he did make in the past, even a year before. So it might depend on just how much he's actually dedicated because the guy didn't start playing till halfway through the season last year. And I think that a full training camp, full OTA mini camp is probably going to make a pretty big difference. But I think that's a really interesting one. Last thing about this quarterback list, everybody at the bottom. So you have Sam Howell, Baker Mayfield, Desmond Ritter, Jordan Love, Mack Jones.

Obviously, the rookies have to be toward the bottom. Kenny Pickett is in there. Who from the bottom of the list won't be at the bottom of the list by the end of the year? I'm going to say Mac Jones will be better. I think almost by default, because Patricia is not going to be calling. Yes, anymore. So I don't know. I don't know how much better Mac Jones can get. I mean, I don't know what they did as far as getting weapons in the offseason for him because they didn't really have great weapons for him last year.

But also, I mean, Matt Patricia is just an idiot. I can't even believe that Bill Belichick had him as kind of the de facto offensive coordinator last year. It was just mind-boggling. So I think Matt Jones, I could see Matt Jones being a little bit better just almost by default. I could see Bryce Young being better than 25 just because of what they put around him. And the fact that of some of the guys that are above him,

you got Kenny Pickett above him at 23. He was drafted last year. Are we really going to say that just because he's had a year of experience in the NFL, he's going to be that much better than the guy who certainly would have been drafted ahead of him had Bryce Young come out last year like I don't know that I believe that I think Bryce Young will just rise up by default just by being better than some of the guys ahead of him like Brock Purdy uh Kenny Pickett as I said Kyler Murray Ryan Tannehill who looked kind of washed last year

is he really going to be better than CJ Stroud I don't or better than Brock or Bryce Young I don't think so I think Bryce Young is going to move up pretty quickly throughout this year, this season. Yeah, I think that that is possibly true and I'm trying to put the list on the screen here. So give me a second. That's not quite the best way to do it. There it is. So there's a, if people can see it on YouTube, most of the lists that i've tried to put on the screen on twitter uh and didn't like accidentally open up my dms or something on here uh but uh so i think that uh toward the bottom of the list that actually kenny pickett is the guy with the best chance because kenny pickett is going into his year, which we have often seen work for these quarterbacks,

even guys that we've decided, like think about Joe Burrow, even going into year two, Joe Burrow had a lot of doubts. Like, does he have the good enough arm strength and, you know, things like that. And then he took off because they were able to put together a lot around him. And I think that, you know, George Pickens, they've got some good receivers there, maybe building up their offensive line that Kenny Pickett could take that big step forward of all the rookies. Yeah. Bryce Young would be your natural pick. But,

you know, like for some reason, I don't know why, for some reason, I'm going to take this down now. Everybody got it. Everybody see it see it okay so um but for some reason the washington football team is really into sam howell we don't know why and and look he was kind of interesting coming out in the draft nobody wanted him but the guy's got an arm he runs pretty well like i don't know for some reason they're really into him and this happened with russell wilson early in his career i'm not saying he's gonna be exactly like this but when matt flynn got signed for seattle and then wilson won the job there was a lot of like really their third rounder like won the job that's weird and uh i trust no do i trust them more than atlanta i trust neither

atlanta or him but they're both going with those third round picks or third round or fifth round or late round picks. One of them probably turns out to be pretty good Ritter or Howell. And I'm not sure which one, and it definitely could be neither. So, uh, but, but I think, I think Kenny Pickett's got a chance. And for some reason, Mike Tomlin always finds a way to win. There were games last year where Kenny Pickett was showing some kind of baller nature where he was winning games, even if it was a little gnarly. That Ravens game, man.

That play he made at the Ravens game at the end, huge, massive. I mean, so there might be something there. Okay, final question for time purposes. Manny's got another sushi date or something. He's got to get you. I don't know. But so the schedule is coming out on thursday and uh there's always a big night of like what they three games or something in the first night but just give me your one give me your one opening night game not the super bowl

matchup maybe because that's too obvious let's just say not the super bowl matchup, maybe? Cause that's too obvious. Let's just say not the Superbowl matchup because they always do that. What if you could just make one game, if you could call Raj and say, Raj, this is the game I want to see on opening night, who would it be? Want me to go first? Sure. Give me, give me another round of of of Burrow versus Mahomes, man. I know the Chiefs and Bengals are supposed to play again this coming season. Give me that again. Every time they match up, every time the Chiefs and Bengals play, it's always just a terrific game. Sign me up. And I think it would make some sense with the Chiefs being the defending Super Bowl champs hosting you know hosting that Thursday night game uh to start the year it I think it makes all the sense in the world to to uh give us another Burrow versus Mahomes matchup to start the year Burrow Mahomes not gonna argue with that can't argue with that my pick would be the Chargers and the Chiefs because

every time those two teams play like you said Manny with the Bengals they those two teams light up the scoreboard I don't know what it is about Justin Herbert and Patrick Mahomes but when those two get together on the football field it is electric it is fun to watch give me that matchup especially because interdivisional rivalry give me that matchup on the opening night of the NFL season? I will go with Philly, San Francisco. Let's see him play it with a healthy quarterback. Now, I don't know if Brock Purdy is going to be healthy. So if it's Hurts versus Sam Darnold,

maybe that's a little less inspiring, but it could be Trey Lance. So let's just see him with a quarterback, just in general, and not talking about Kyle Juszczyk potentially playing quarterback, but a rematch there. was some bad blood there's a lot of kind of social media chatter going back and forth the other one that i wouldn't mind seeing here's here's the here's the battle i'll

give you the most like off the wall but i can justify it the battle of teams that are supposed to take the next step. Jacksonville, Detroit, baby. These two teams, I'm telling you, these are offenses that have potential to be great. Teams that are talked about as they like, watch out for that team this year. And they're both kind of exciting. I mean, both have good offenses.

Trevor Lawrence took a big leap last year toward the end of the season. And if we weren't doing kind of the obvious, here's the most fun teams in the NFL to match up, then I would go with that. I want to see Jacksonville bring on, I don't even think they're playing the AFC South this year. Probably not. But if that was a random matchup that I could pick with no rules,

that's, that's the one I would go with if i'm not doing the like obvious big matchups yeah i i mean i i think jacksonville especially them getting to the playoffs last year and winning that playoff game coming from behind being down by what was it or how much were the chargers was that 30 to nothing or something like that. 27, nothing, something like that. And then going into Kansas city and knowing that they were going to be kind of overmatched and just kind of, you never really felt like Jacksonville was going to win that game, but they just,

they kind of hung around and kind of made it kind of interesting. And, you know, I think Doug Peterson's a pretty good coach. I like Jacksonville's going to be, I think Jacksonville is going to be fun to watch. Detroit on paper, I feel like should be really intriguing. I just, I'm not sure I trust Dan Campbell yet. I just did just, just kind of a, there's still kind of like this meathead, you know, persona about him that just, I'm not entirely sold on with him. And I, I don't know what the hell they were doing in their draft either.

So that kind of has me with my eyebrows raised, but, but, you know, they're going to be exciting. I do like what Jacksonville is going to bring to the table though. I just realized I missed out on the best one for me based off of what we talk about here on the show quite a bit chargers and the dallas cowboys give me that one where kellen moore decides he's not going to run the damn ball once he's going to pass every single play he's going to run up the score on mike mccarthy and shove the ball down his throat the entire game by just having justin herbert throw it 70

times in that game give me that match up for opening week well and uh nobody nominated tennessee arizona i don't know what you guys you guys are you sure you guys are really nfl experts i don't know can i just say this about the tennessee titans too i've just and i love me some steve mcnair rest in peace he was he was a lot of fun, but ever since they moved to Tennessee, I've just never liked watching the Tennessee Titans play. There's nothing about them. That's ever been appealing outside of like that, you know, eight or nine years with Steve McNair. I hate their uniforms.

They're always playing like these really bad and low scoring grinded out old school games.ff fisher was just dull as a doorknob just the entire and even now just like mike vrabel and they're just they're physical we're gonna run the ball with derrick henry and we're gonna beat you 16 to 10 it's just gross gross the stadium is falling apart they had a fire there that caused the vikings to have to stop uh using the dragon like they've got they've got a lot of problems uh it's funny that last year was the first time that they had a losing season since like 2015 or something and yet it never felt that way like they've just never felt relevant to me at all during the Ryan Tannehill era.

If you, if it's an, if it's an era, I mean, he's, he's been a decent quarterback for them, but they, it's just, it never mattered. And except for, like you said, when they had Javon curse and Steve McNair, and even then they're playing at like Vanderbilt university for a while. And the jerseys have always been a disaster. I mean, it just, I don't know. It looks the whole, even the logo looks goofy. The color scheme is, oh, blue and dark blue.

You guys got really creative with that one. It's just not a cool franchise at all. So I agree. But I think that Tennessee and Arizona could be in the running for being the worst teams in the league this year. Tennessee's lost a lot of talent. And if I'm Ryan Tannehill and you just drafted Will Levis, I'm like, can you just trade me somewhere? Like maybe, maybe Washington or Atlanta could bail on their quarterbacks from last year and take Ryan Tannehill or something. Before we go, I just want to show

everyone in a different window that Manny was not intentionally putting his head right up into the window Manny was sitting back away from his computer it just looked that way like it condenses our heads if we had done it this way it would have looked like Manny was totally normal but instead his face was just like eating your face so uh but it wasn't anything you did wrong manny i i have a new laptop so this camera the last laptop i had the camera on it didn't work so i was using an external webcam i just got a new laptop uh about a week ago and it's so i'm using the actual camera on this laptop so it's kind of a new and it's like right in right into my face when it's when it gets uh zoomed in so it's a little

i just wanted to let everybody know i thought it was fine that we got a really close look at you as but i uh i'm like trying to move my head around to make sure it's like centered because i'd look at it and just be kind of off and i'm like oh let's get this right straightened up and everything i mean so it wasn't it wasn't anything you did, though. That's the only point I was trying to make. You're getting roasted a little bit in the comments. Like, why is Manny coming through my screen a little? But, yeah, you're good.

So great to get together with you again, Manny. We will hit up a Lynx game when their season starts very soon, as we always do. Jonathan, great stuff as always. And we'll continue this on every Tuesday night here with Hot Routes. As we go throughout the summer, we'll have plenty of fun and go forward. So thanks, guys, for doing this. And thanks, everybody, for watching slash listening.

We will catch you next time.