Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - The mocks are out of hand and Irv Smith Jr. signs elsewhere

Episode Date: April 3, 2023

Matthew Coller and Jonathan Harrison talk about a mock draft that has Hendon Hooker going in the top five and how the mocks have gotten wild already... Irv Smith Jr. signed with the Bengals, is he the player we hyped the most that never did anything? Will he shine with the Bengals? Plus, who are our favorite draft night surprises of the past and should the Vikings look into Odell Beckham? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Hot Routes here on Purple Insider. Matthew Collar with you, along with Jonathan Harrison. We've got a lot to talk about, including a former Viking signing elsewhere that, you know, maybe just kind of went under our radar and we didn't have a whole lot of discussion about, but, you know, we'll get into it. We have sort of reached this point where we are speculating like crazy on everything but what was happening at the initial start of free agency is speculate then has something happens then more speculate then something happens but now we've

just sort of reached this with the vikings hit the skids but one sentence did stick out to me that alec wrote he said it seems like they are kind of preparing for their second wave of stuff to go down after these owners meetings. And whether that includes Lamar Jackson or just cuttings at area Smith, I don't know, but more things have to come. So that's kind of where we're at, Jonathan. It seems like kind of a holding pattern. Yeah. I mean, you mentioned the two moves that it feels like they need to make or make, or at least one of them in cuttings at area Smith, they need to figure out what they're going to do with Dalvin cook. Cause I don't imagine under Kevin O'Connell's offense,

you're going to want to spend that much money on the running back position two years in a row. And with having to pay what they have to pay coming up in the future, you're not going to want to keep spending the amount of money on that position where you can, as we've talked about plenty of times, you can find those guys just off the street and they're going to get you good, decent yardage. You don't need to be spending $10 million on a Dalvin Cook who clearly took a step back last year. I mean, it just, there's no way around it. They need space. They need cap space. They've got one and.5 million of cap space, and you still have a draft class. What little of a draft class you'll have, you still have that to sign, and you still have plenty of roster spots you need to sign.

So it just feels like there is something coming, but it's taking a very long time to get there. It feels like this second phase of the offseason has really dragged on for a really long time, and it's kind of killed the, the momentum that, that we came out right the gates, right out of the gates with it. Just the,

the off season just hit a brick wall. It feels like after, I don't know. I want to, I want to say the Kirk cousins things, but I always don't want to blame him for everything, but that Kirk cousins con or restructuring kind of just put a halt on the Vikings off season for a little bit.

Cause that took away a lot of the speculation that a lot of us were having. Right. It made it. So nothing can even move at the very earliest if it's going to happen, which I still would bet against it after June 1st, which leaves us right now going, uh, you want to look at some cornerback tape for the draft. Um, but you know, look, there is, there is things that are pretty interesting, like the fact that mock drafters keep giving the Vikings quarterbacks. And so we could start debating those quarterbacks and looking into them and so forth, which is the place we're going to start in just a second. Um, but at the same time, the fact that it can't really move at this moment

makes it harder. Like we have to wait for another month for the draft to get here. And then, you know, we're sitting here wondering about Lamar Jackson when the Lamar Jackson rumor comes out, it's an exciting day, but then it's like, okay, we're going to talk about tomorrow, more Lamar Jackson. Like, you know, that's, that's kind of where we stand right now. And it feels like the entire NFL is there. Get Up or whatever show, they start with essentially, do you want to talk about Aaron Rodgers or Lamar Jackson this morning? And those two subjects have just dominated the entire thing so uh there are mock drafts to look into there are free agents still remaining not a lot of exciting ones but the vikings could make those decisions but i also feel like it's not just that kirk restructure which sort of resolved that right away but also the fact that there was a date where we expected the smith and cook thing to go down and then it didn't and then even when harrison smith stayed and they signed dean lowry it kind of took some air out of the rebuild balloon

because the rebuild balloon was starting to pump up people were getting in and it was like all right let's float off to the future and then it was like oh well they're keeping harrison smith i mean it's okay like no one wants gone, but that's not very rebuildy. And oh, they signed a really old veteran defensive tackle who, you know, is okay. It was good two years ago, which is not exactly what you want to hear. So, you know, Dean Lowry could work out okay for them and so forth. But, you know, I just did an article looking in specifically to how much value they lost on the defensive side and unless uh brian floris is the next bill parcells it's going

to be a really tough potential ride for them unless there's a lot more to go in this offseason could be there's still players out there but that whole we got rolling on the rebuild and then the restructure and then all these things that didn't seem very like in the future then where do you sit as a team you're just sort of again floating around in the middle which is where they've been for so long and dustin makes a good point that the vikings have been stuck with big running back contracts for a long time and that even includes like if you draft a guy high, which, you know, they didn't really, really high with Delvin cook, but it feels like you're sort of, when you draft the guy, even in the second round, that's, that's your guy, like you have to extend him.

So you're kind of going to know eventually that, you know, like he's going to get that big contract, which he did. And it has not been a success. Because if we think about the Delvin Cook contract years, you have the first year of his contract is 2020. He was great. They missed the playoffs. 2021 is sort of up and down. They missed the playoffs. And then this year they make the playoffs, but he's not even very good,

where if you could have taken whatever his cap hit was and put it into more defensive players, a guard, whatever else, maybe you're one touchdown away from beating the giants. I don't know. I'm not blaming Delvin cook. I'm just saying that that's what it does to you when you spend money inefficiently and this off season, they've spent it like somewhat efficiently. You can't, you can't dislike the Davenport and Byron Murphy signings, no doubt about

it. But, um, you know, I just thought there would be more of those. So anyway, that's kind of where we're at, which means we have an opportunity to kind of push the walls out a little and have a little fun with some of the other stuff that's going on in the league. I didn't write down that the number zero is going to be allowed now, except for fat people, which I think is a travesty. I mean, what a sick irony.

That's like saying you can have pizza, but only in squares, which is just wrong in my opinion. Yeah, absolutely. But, you know, like you're not going to let a nose tackle be number zero? Why? That doesn't make any sense. Who doesn't want to see a Jerry Ball type running around in number zero? Come on.

I know. I know. That should have been a topic, but it's not. Here's where we're going to start, though. The we start every day pinky uh anybody watch pinky in the brain um yes espn's mike with a mock draft of course espn's mike tannenbaum of course jumps the shark with mock drafts and has hendon hooker going five overall. So we were talking about just a week ago, whether it was worth having Hendon Hooker even like talked about in the first round.

And a lot of people thinking, well, he's more of a third round pick. Then Daniel Jeremiah puts them in the first round. And all of a sudden everybody's in love with this guy. Who's old and has an ACL injury. I don't know weird stuff. So he has them fifth and he's and he called

him underscouted no i promise you no quarterback is underscouted i promise you long snappers are underscouted i mean okay so it's just like again we're off the rails it's not even april yet so uh but here is a question for you if h Hendon Hooker was drafted number five overall, it would be one of the biggest shocks that's ever happened. I remember when Daniel Jones was taken maybe 10 spots before expected, and we went like, what, are you crazy? And I would still maintain that Hendon Hooker is more of a second or third round draft pick. But if that happens, okay, this is good.

Sorry, I got to put this on the screen hendon hendon hooker is old enough to understand all of collars tv and sports references thank you uh i got pinky in the brain that's good one your pinky in the brain's not that old is it is it still on no i don't think it's on but no i don't know either yeah i watched it as a kid but that was probably like 97 so that's good though thank you for doing that uh and uh yeah jamie this is this is the thing about mock drafts yes they are a complete guessing game um dustin says it was 1995 when picking the brain around but not that long ago it's only 18 years so most um no longer than more than yeah it's 28 years 28 years uh anyway my yes the thing about mox is if we all keep in mind that it's for entertainment purposes only it's just to take a look at like imagination it's all imagination it's let's play this fun little game where we all picture a bunch of players on the

teams and what that would be like. And then you think about it in your brain and that's all it's for. It's not that this man knows or that anybody else really knows. It's just a thought experiment and people seem to like them and like to argue with them. It does seem that Hendon Hooker at number five is completely preposterous. Who knows? But my question to you was going to be, because we think from reading mocks all the time that we know everything going into the draft, and then by about the fifth pick, it usually blows us out of the water completely. What do you remember about times where you were totally shocked when a player

dropped or when a player was taken way higher than you ever expected? I think the easy one for Vikings fans is Christian Ponder in 2011, just coming out of nowhere. I know there was a lot of talk that year. There was Cam Newton. There was Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert. All three of those were the top three guys. I don't remember exactly what the thought was around Christian Ponder, but having him drafted as number 12 overall after you lose out on Locker and Gabbert, who at the time I was all in on Locker, I wanted him. But obviously he went a little he went a couple of picks earlier.

Thankfully, that didn't happen because his career didn't pan out, unfortunately for him. Christian Ponder at 12 overall was just, what the heck? Where did this come from? And it just felt very shocking considering what was left on the, or who was left on the board. There was plenty of guys that you could have grabbed at that time that you didn't really need to reach for a quarterback like Christian Ponder, who definitely wasn't worth the 12th overall pick at the time. So that's the one that pops in my mind right away for guys who came out of nowhere and were picked a little bit too high. Guys who dropped out of nowhere for me, Teddy Bridgewater, I don't think he should have dropped as far as he did. But you have one bad pro day and suddenly for some reason that knocks your draft stock down, despite, you know, four years of college tape showing that this guy's a pretty decent

quarterback. Fortunately, unfortunately, uh, injuries derailed his career, but the fact that he dropped all the way to the bottom of the first round was just mind blowing to me because he felt like one of the best quarterbacks in that draft. And there's no reason he should have dropped as far as he did just because he chose not to wear gloves at his pro day is just mind-blowing he should have you know when i when i first introduced myself to teddy bridgewater it was kind of a weird situation because i arrived to cover the team right when he had gotten hurt so he was away from the team for a while and we

didn't really even talk to each other until 2017. And I remember like shaking his hand and I was like, good. And he had his glove on and I was like, well, you know, always keep the glove on or something. You know, I made some comment about, you know, the the pro day, which was, you know, completely silly. And I saw Rick Spielman roasting Pete Prisco on Twitter about not caring about pro days but you're like Rick you were actually helped by a bad pro day and you drafted what could have been your your success story as a quarterback because Rick Spielman's legacy will always be tied to Christian Ponder and what a giant failure that was but you know Teddy Bridgewater would have been the one that turned it around and I 100% agree with being completely shocked when that happened,

that he dropped that far. And I thought, this is absurd. We're talking about just a guy who didn't have a good pro day. What about all the tape? What about all the games that he won and how he took Louisville from this very mediocre program to being a really, really good team that was beating Miami and stuff at the time. So that was a weird one to me. I agree just as far as the quarterbacks go, it's always dramatic with the quarterbacks.

Aaron Rogers is a great example, of course, of somebody who dropped, but, um, Johnny Manziel was a weird situation. Johnny Manziel was an incredibly bizarre one because that one, he was, if you remember openly campaigning to i think it was houston where he was trying to say take me at the top draft pick you know he was doing all these interviews about how he was gonna change the you know whatever franchise and all that sort of thing and then on draft night they just kept showing him it became the whole johnny manziel draft it was like someone got drafted show him for a second, back to Johnny Manziel. Because he just took over ESPN and all draft coverage, and he just kept dropping and dropping and dropping. And I really thought that Manziel had a chance to be a very

good player. But what I didn't know, and obviously some of the NFL, there's that he had a serious problem with partying and taking the job seriously and everything else. Uh, there was some things in college that he got suspended for were problematic, but it was like a huge problem in the NFL. So, you know, um, it's, that one was very, very, very stunning for me. Uh, the Cleland pharrell one for the raiders was probably actually every raiders pick over the mike mayock john gruden era i think was really stunning and it has kind of trickled out that gruden was really pulling the strings there that he was the one that had the power and that makes more sense than mayock no one's right all the time everyone is wrong all the time but mayock has always come across as a pretty knowledgeable dude and for

those picks for alex leatherwood to go ahead of christian derisaw what i mean christian derisaw was being mocked as a top 10 player and he ended dropping. That didn't shock me as much, but as Alex Leatherwood being taken that high because Leatherwood was mostly thought of as being like a second round draft pick. And here's the Raiders just throwing caution to the wind. Uh, Cleland Farrell, when they picked him, I had never heard of him.

I was like, I mean, he was so off my radar. I was like, I have no idea who that is, that they selected a fourth overall. I think all the draft experts, even on all the shows were like, wait, what you picked this guy here. Why? And like most of those guys knew Mike Mayock because he obviously used to be one of

them. And they're all just like, what, what the hell's going on here? Like, why would you pick this guy at fourth overall? It, it shocked even the draft experts who had no idea that that was going to happen yeah i had never even looked into him as a potential like top draft pick uh the other one was when i was in buffalo ej manual ej manual that was not talked about as a first round draft pick it by anyone that year it was entirely gino smith there was some buzz for like mike glenn it was entirely Gino Smith there was some buzz for like Mike Glenn it was a horrible draft and everyone turned out to be a bust but that was another one that was a big surprise Russell Wilson dropping to the third round was another one that was like a big discussion at the time should you take him is he too small all those things and you know ends up becoming a

superstar so yeah there I mean there's a lot of like quarterbacks stick out for sure but i will never forget jimmy clausen dropping to the second round after the huge debates over jimmy clausen on television which was where we got all of our draft information before you know the internet explosion of a million different places you could find it and mock draft simulators and everything, but going to Jimmy Clawson, it's always, there's always that one guy who has to do the interview last year is Malik Willis. And I would say Malik Willis was shocking too.

I don't think I was terribly shocked. Sorry, knock the book off the shelf. I don't think I was terribly shocked that Malik Willis didn't go in the first, but all the way to the third was like, what is happening? How could all of these quarterbacks get so much hype and stuff and then end up there? So there's lots of proof that we know not what we think we know, but Hendon Hooker five overall, Jonathan, that would go in the all time list of craziest, most unpredictable things I think to ever happen in the draft when you look at the quality of these other prospects versus Hendon Hooker yeah if especially if he goes

over one of those other guys especially like if he goes over Anthony Richardson or Will Levis with the way those those two have been talked about over the past couple weeks in the past year or so and then Hendon Hooker goes above them after blowing his ACL and then being 25 years old and having to most likely sit for a year because of that it would be incredibly shocking that the Seahawks used their fifth overall pick on it I wouldn't understand it but also Pete Carroll could just rely on the hey we took Russell Wilson in the third and it paid off the same season or the same off season. We gave out big money to Matt Flynn. So it wouldn't like, it wouldn't be completely out of character for the Seahawks to do it. That high would be incredibly shocking though. It would be ridiculous if Henning Hooker went from being maybe a second

round pick to all the way up to top five. That would be absurd and mind blowing. The other one that really took me by surprise was I thought the NFL was past drafting running backs in the top five. And then they took Saquon Barkley, Leonard Fournette, like top five draft picks. Absolutely insane. But now they've backed away from that. And like Bijan Robinson, just a few years ago,

might've been a top five draft pick. And now he's unlikely to go before maybe the back half to the first at best. I don't think anybody should spend a first round draft pick on him. Considering what it actually costs to have a first round running back, he will immediately be one of the most expensive players

at his position as a rookie, which totally defeats the purpose of having rookies. Like that's what, that's the whole first round thing. Sloth brings up Cole Strange from last year. Yeah, that was a big one that nobody really understood why they did that. Although I think he played pretty well, but still like you're reaching that far up on a guard. I mean, I don't know.

Nobody really expects that to happen. So anything can happen, including Hendon Hooker being taken there. Although I think that Seattle is probably looking to trade down out of that pick, which is why they keep hinting strongly. We'll take a quarterback, wink, wink. Don't mess with us.

We'll do it. And then they'll trade back and get a bunch of draft capital and continue to go from there. So yeah, the mocks make life more interesting, but don't freak out if somebody does something crazy. Next question for you though, Jonathan, Irv Smith Jr. is a Cincinnati Bengal now. So he's going to play with Joe Burrow. We spent years talking about the next step for Irv Smith Jr. It never came because of injuries. Do you think Irv Smith Jr. becomes something in Cincinnati? And who's a player that you kept thinking all the time would take the quote next step? And it just never really happened. I think it's probably his best opportunity to make that next step than he's had in Minnesota

because he's going to have better quarterback play than he's had here. He'll have more weapons surrounding him. Yes, the Vikings had Justin Jefferson, who was the best weapon in the NFL, but the sheer amount of weapons around him, I think, might be a little bit better than what he had here despite having Adam Thielen and Justin Jefferson at the same time. He was a little bit older than Adam Thielen. The youth that they have there is going to have an impact. I don't know that he'll ever take that next step,

because if he would have done it, it should have been here in Minnesota, where he had, as I mentioned, Justin Jefferson beside him. It should have happened for him, but it never did. And TJ Hawkinson came in and impressed and basically took over that role and it seemed incredibly easy for him. So it showed, TJ Hawkinson showed that how easy it should have been for a tight end to come in and succeed in this offense. And Irv Smith just never did it despite the incredible athleticism we knew he had.

It just feels like if he couldn't do it here, it's probably not going to happen anywhere. But the Bengals seem like a really good opportunity for it to happen. If it ever does, because of the fact that they have Joe Burrow as opposed to having Kirk cousins. Yeah. The thing with Irv was like things change so quickly in the NFL where when

he's playing in a tight end friendly offense with the Kubiaks, I mean, Gary Kubiak loves tight ends more than you love anything in your life. I mean, that's just like his thing, right? He loves outside zone. He loves bootlegs and he loves tight ends. He took Owen Daniels wherever he could take them. You know, like he just, that was him, Byron Chamberlain. He would always have these multiple tight ends that would succeed. And that worked out exactly with the Vikings when they had him and Kyle Rudolph. So they were, I think, a pretty good combination where Irv could line up in different spots. He could play in the slot. He wasn't given all of the duties of a, you know, a traditional tight end when Kyle

Rudolph was taking up a lot of that. And so it made sense to look at him and say, like, this guy is a weapon. He could go down the field. He can run after catch a little bit. Like he's got that, like you said, athleticism, but also got a little sandpaper to his game. And he could block, I think, better than people expected him to at his size, but he was a decent technical blocker, but then asking him to do everything in a brand new offense that is not that kind to tight ends. I don't think that the Los Angeles Rams have ever really, I mean, they've had some success with them, but not like the whole emphasis on the tight end is a big part of their offense. So I think they were

asking him to do a lot of different things and he missed a huge chunk of training camp. Players who had the whole training camp, Justin Jefferson included, Kirk Cousins included, they talked about how hard that offense was to learn. He missed half of it with a hand injury. And this is why I think that Irv Smith still could succeed and might even have a decent chance to is all of his injuries were just bad luck stuff this last one last year somebody fell on him and that's how yeah they end up with TJ Hawkinson but somebody fell on him there wasn't anything that he did wrong it was just a random thing when he hurt his hand he got his finger or thumb or something caught in somebody's helmet in practice just some random stuff there that wasn't really his fault. So I think that, you know, he could fit in quite well and end up being a steal.

And one of the things is there's a lot of tight ends who go to a second team and end up being better than they were with their first team because it's a really hard position. And so people develop and it can end up working out for them. I would not be surprised if that goes that way for Irv Smith. It might also just be the fact that every year we went into the season with me saying, hey, I think he looks good in camp, or this could be his big next year or whatever. And so instead, they had to trade a second round pick to fill that spot.

Now, Hockinson is very good and you're not going to be against that. But if they aren't able to extend TJ Hockinson, I mean, then the trade looks a little less good. It looks a little it looks kind of all in, which I'm not against them doing last year, considering the circumstances. But still, it won't look as good if he doesn't become a long-term part of this and because that irv smith pick didn't work out and i wasn't at aj brown who was taken right after him by the way uh because that pick did not work out um you you end up having this sort of domino effect of not having a second round pick and having to go after TJ Hawkinson. So anyway, there's kind of a lot of layers to that Irv Smith discussion. But if we found out that he fit

perfectly there and became a big part of their offense, yeah, I wouldn't be super shocked because we always saw the flashes of potential that were there. It just didn't end up working out. And I was going to say that my answer to the player that I always thought was about to take that next step is Irv Smith Jr. I mean, he's the one that normally I just, you know, I'm very cautious to say that people are going to do that. We wrote lots of articles about Laquan Treadwell. Oh, this is, you know, Laquan's learning route running out there, but I never bought it.

I just, you know, I reported what he said, but I never bought that that was going to happen. I'll tell you a quarterback who I always thought was on the cusp of doing it, who turned out to be a bust, which was Jake Locker. He's getting compared kind of to Will Levis. That's another guy who was hurt all the time. Every year I thought Jake Locker is like this year, he's going to put it together. And there was one season where he kind of did a little bit and then immediately got hurt and his career kind of quickly came to an end because of that but I remember him being the quarterback and if you were like a big Sam Darnold guy I wasn't but if you were then every so often you'd get these Sam Darnold flashes where he'd throw for 400 yards or something or he'd make some incredible throw. But, you know, there's a lot of those guys out there that if someone is drafted high,

the NFL gives them lots of opportunity and plenty of time because, you know, if it clicks, they had the talent. So, you know, we'll see how it works out for him. But I think it's a perfect spot for him to land. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, as I said, there's plenty of weapons around him to take away some of that pressure. And it feels like that's a good spot, especially with the quarterback play and everything else that's built up there. They're not relying on him to be the guy that tips them over the edge. He's just going to take that next step, for me, the quarterback for me in this answer is Matt Leinart because I grew up and his college run was during my junior high and high school years.

And I fell in love with that USC offense, all those guys. And I wanted to see him succeed in the NFL. It just never did. It never could click with him in the NFL. And then Kurt Warner came over and took over and essentially just ended Matt Leinart's chances of being the him in the NFL. And then Kurt Warner came over and took over and essentially just ended Matt Leinart's chances of being the quarterback in that offense. Now,

how much was that of the quarter of the coaches that he was putting that were put in place for him when he was drafted by the Cardinals a little bit, but it just never felt like it was going to succeed in the NFL. Unfortunately, even though it felt like that should, he should have been able to carry on that success from college to the NFL. Yeah. That's a, that's a really good pick. I never thought it was going to work out for Matt liner because, because there was some moments. So the, I was watching the famous Denny green game, not that long ago, where he says they are

who we thought they were and all that. And in that game joe theismann is doing the broadcast and he is absolutely losing it praising matt liner he's just like this is amazing this is incredible liner it is the next great quarterback and everything else and there he wasn't really doing anything that would make you think that but they just they wanted it really bad because he was such a big star, but you could kind of see the timidness where it was like, oh, this isn't easy anymore. Like it wasn't USC. And then when it came out that he was kind of spending a lot more time being a celebrity and partying everything else, then he was actually being a quarterback. It was over pretty quick. I, i did wonder when he was coming out of college i'm not saying like i called it but i really wondered is it everybody else i've never

seen a player as dominant as reggie bush in college sports and so was it everybody else like i uh you know i don't know there but there's a you know there's a lot of quarterbacks who kind of have these stops and starts vince Young was another one for me. I mean, same deal, same deal. Like USC, Texas, Vince Young was so much fun. I didn't think too much about the down parts of his game because he was such a winner, and he took that team to the national championship and won that game. It was like, okay, this guy's going to be a big superstar,

played with him on the video games, all that stuff. He won a decent amount of games, but it never really became what it was supposed to be. That's why this is so hard when it comes to evaluating is because the things that determine success are the things that you can't really know. And so this is from Derek comparisons to Will Levis to bring up names like Jake Locker and Jay Cutler are alarming to say the least they shouldn't be they shouldn't be because comparisons mean nothing and I will prove it to you

well let's see I was looking this up the other day comparisons at NFL.com that just get oh I know what it was Mitch Trubisky was compared to Matt Staff at nfl.com that just get oh i know what it was mitch trubisky was compared to matt stafford by nfl.com okay i don't know i don't know none of it means anything so that's i like yeah we try to make these comparisons because but just remember it's for entertainment purposes only i'm not saying you can't do it. I love to have those discussions. Like who is this guy really like? But that doesn't mean like if Jay Cutler wasn't a, what word do I want to use that

I want to say on the air? Not a cool guy, like whatever a jerk that works if will levis was jay cutler with a good head on his shoulders he's a great quarterback right we all agree on that yeah i think so yeah jay cutler had his moments where he could have led the bears or the broncos to success it just it never there was always something in the way that happened so yeah if if he's a guy with a smart head on his shoulders that can make smart decisions then yeah he's a good quarterback well and a lot of times it was just jay cutler getting in his own way so yeah yeah i mean the chat is agreeing that's the right word though like i i i try i try to keep it very fan you know family friendly we do have younger people who listen to the show so uh let me move on in the quarterback

discussion though the 49ers are i believe tattooing brock purdy's face to their chest at the owners meeting it's very suspect how committal they're being about brock purdy now Brock Purdy. Now, I don't know if Brock Purdy is as much of the starter as they say, like if it is as locked in as they're making it sound, or if they're like putting out the signal, hey, if you're trying to trade with us, then give us a call for Trey Lance. If that's something that they're trying to do, like Brock Purdydy we're all set with him so anybody want to give us a second round draft pick like is that I don't know I don't know why they're doing this it's kind of weird that that's what they're doing uh so I guess is it strange to you since he's only started a few games I would like your perspective on it and also let's talk about some

quarterbacks who had very brief runs with success and did not last. But when it did, it was wonderful. So both parts of those questions, Jonathan. I think it is a little weird that they're basically all in on Brock Purdy and saying that he's their guy when he comes back for injury, despite or considering the draft pick that they used on Trey Lance, that they still have him in the building. And he was a top 10 draft pick for them. And they're just like, yeah, Brock Purdy drafted with the last overall pick. He got success.

He's our guy going forward. And you still have the Lamar Jackson thing out there. And he would, it seems like he would be a perfect fit for that offense. The fact that none of these teams are going for Lamar or saying that there's other exterior reasons, like what the Falcons were saying about his injuries, despite Deshaun Watson tearing the same ACL twice. It's just like these reasons that they're saying about Lamar Jackson

are bogus and don't mean anything. But sticking with Brock Purdy after six, seven games of success, I guess you want to show confidence in your quarterback, but also it's only six games. You should be able to have some wiggle room there, which it doesn't seem like they're giving themselves a whole lot of, considering they still have Trey Lance in the building. They just brought in Sam Darnold.

Yeah, those guys aren't, it doesn't seem like good options for the future, but you don't know, especially on Trey Lance. You have no idea because he's played what one, two, three games at most. So it feels weird that they're going with the guy that has only played six games, had a ton of success in those six games, but they're putting their franchise behind him is a little strange. I get it because they can get four years out of him on that rookie quarterback contract. And it's, that of him on that rookie quarterback contract.

And it's not even a rookie quarterback contract. That's last overall pick contract. And if he's as successful as they think he can be, and you have that contract for the next four years, the amount of money you can spend on the rest of the roster is absolutely gargantuan. So if they're going to if they're if they think he's that good and they're going to get the next four years out of him and they think they're going to get really good quarterback play out of him, then sure, makes a world of sense because financially it's the greatest thing that any team has ever run into.

But as for the second part of that question, the obvious one is Case Keenum, right? 2017 and leading the Vikings to the NFC championship game, having that run that he did. That was, that was really fun as a Vikings fan. And that last, the Minneapolis miracle, I remember being on that night. It was just, it was madness. I know you were at the stadium, so it was madness. It was just, it was a really fun time with Case Keenum, which were, where always felt like, all right, when's this shoe going to drop? When's this going to happen? And you felt like it was going to happen during the regular

season, literally at any moment. It never did until the NFC championship game, of course. But that's the one that immediately sticks out of my mind is Case Keenum's 2017. And he got a bag of money after it. It just never worked out afterwards for him. No, it did not. It really is. I mean mean he's on his third stint with the texans now just signed there to work with whatever young quarterback which is a good career path for a guy drafted in the seventh round uh but yeah that one season will never be forgotten as one of the craziest single standout pop-up seasons that's ever happened. To answer a couple of messages here in the chat, Andre asking if it would be crazy if the Vikings tried to get Trey Lance. Of course not. No. I

mean, anytime that you don't know what your future is a quarterback and with, you know, Trey Lance, it's going to come up that he's had these injury problems, but I don't think there's any way with NFL players in general to figure out who's going to get injured. This comes up with Lamar Jackson all the time. There has never been any sort of predictive metric, especially with younger quarterbacks and quarterbacks get hurt a lot. I mean, that's part of it, right? They get hurt a lot i i mean that's part of it right they get hurt all the time there was i believe and i'm not just being silly here i think there were 69 quarterbacks who played i'm not i'm sorry i think that's the actual number there were 69 quarterbacks who played that's more than two a team ended up playing including the san francisco uh 49ers who had trey lance jimmy garoppolo and brock

purdy all get hurt in the same season total randomness and i don't know how to predict it well with trey lance we have such a tiny sample size that we have no idea what trey lance is going to be it would concern me that san francisco would be to pull the chute before even seeing him go through this off season. And I don't think they will. I think they'll wait to see, but they're already saying, Hey, like this is our quarterback Brock Purdy. When he comes back, he might not be back to like week four. So you haven't even seen Trey Lance in the off season and you're already making that declaration. That is very strange to me. you know look the Vikings got a look at him last year in those training camp practices they saw Trey Lance up close it was such a weird situation because Jimmy Garoppolo didn't even

make the trip so it was just Brock Purdy and Trey Lance and I remember and I'm not saying you know uh Purple Ins insider draft scout here. Okay. That's somebody else for our show. But I texted our friend, say Drozden fells. Cause he worked with Brock Purdy in that off season leading up to the draft. And so I texted him and I said, your guy looks better than Trey Lance in these practices. He just was getting the ball out quickly. And I think that was the biggest thing for Kyle Shanahan. What Kyle Shanahan wants is the quarterback to execute his stuff quickly. And Trey Lance did not play much in college. It's very hard for somebody to just drop in and then make all the reads at lightning speed. I think it takes probably years. Teams

don't have years. So you could see where they would look at Purdy as, hey, plug and play, and that's going to be better than trying to work through all the bumps along the road with Trey Lance. So would I trade for him if I'm the Vikings? I would consider it for sure, depending on what their evaluation was. But I also think that you have to consider that and consider drafting someone in 2024. I mean, all options should be on the table because what is our recent history of quarterbacks who don't work out and then are traded somewhere else where a team goes, but maybe it'll work for us. Like the Arrested Development meme. It's not good. It's like Sam Darnold being acquired by the Panthers, Baker Mayfield being acquired by the

Panthers, Josh Rosen on a couple of different teams. If someone is willing to bail that fast, that means it's probably not a good situation. Even if they feel like they found their guy, at least you would want to see how it plays out with both. So if they're willing to bail, I would say, I don't know. That's the real wrench in the thing is if they're willing to bail i would say i don't know that's that's that's the real wrench in the thing is if they're willing to bail now oh i i just i don't know for me um so it's a there's one that should be brought up but i'm hesitant to bring up knowing how many vikings fans we have so i'll bring up a vikings one as well chris chandler's breakout season with the falcons is one of the craziest things ever okay i'm just gonna i'm just gonna call this up real quick just

no one wants to talk about this okay because obvious reasons yes no one hated chris chandler by the way i think nobody like for the they just blame the kicker but chris chandler from the time he came into the league until that season was a 35 and 49 career quarterback who had already been with like five different teams he had been with the colts the phoenix cardinals tampa bay the rams and houston before coming to the atl Atlanta Falcons when he was 33 years old and goes 13-1, averages 16 yards of completion, which is complete insanity, leads the NFL almost 10 yards per attempt, one of the greatest of all time for a single season yards per attempt.

It actually might be the highest ever for yards per pass attempt at 9.6 and then you know never happened again he went four and eight the next season it's just like what this guy was never good and then all of a sudden went completely crazy so there are there are those random pop-up seasons that happen and of course for the vikings the jeff george season is i think falls under this category randall cunningham's wasn't really like that because he was great but there is a gus ferrat who goes like eight and three in a run off the bench throws more picks than touchdowns but just like grinds out all these wins for the Vikings. I love those seasons when some backup shows up and just somehow finds a way old Kerry Collins going 13 and three for the Tennessee Titans after he was completely washed Vinny Testaverde winning, I think 15 games

or something for the jets or 13 games for the jets. I mean, just, you know, it's great whenever that can happen. And Brock Purdy falls into that category. And now the question is, does he become Tom Brady and this late round pick who is great, or does he become much more of that random person who is just the pop-up? I think it's way too early to know that. And he was already injured multiple times. I mean, if that ends up happening in the future to him, if he keeps getting hurt, like, I don't know, anybody can bust really is, is what I mean. So, uh, two quick questions, since we've had a lot of discussion on our first few topics here, the Washington commanders are being sold for $6 billion as one does. If you were buying theers, what would your first act as the owner of the Washington Commanders be?

So I'm torn here. I would want to upgrade the stadium to give the fans a much better experience than having railings fall down on players and just all this other madness that has happened at FedEx Field. But that's almost at that point another $6 billion you're dumping down the drain to upgrade that. My other thought is upgrading the player experience because we've seen how effective that is for the Vikings and what that can do for morale in the locker room. Having a world-class facility for your players to be at day in and day out, it's just going to lead to better things. So I would probably lean more towards treating the players better at this point. And then you could build the stadium later because Washington's just a joke.

Everything there is bad. I believe they got bad grades on everything in the NFL PA report. So I would want to upgrade the player experience because happy players means they're going to get the word out that this is a good organization to play in. You're going to have a better time, an easier time of recruiting better players to your organization, which in turn is going to get the word out that this is a good organization to play in you're going to have a better time an easier time of recruiting better players to your organization which in turn is going to bring more fans in so i think i would go about upgrade or building a brand new facility that's going to treat the players better and put in all the amenities that you would want it's essentially just a recruiting tool and we've seen it happen across college football where these these football teams build multi-million

dollar facilities and it's a giant recruiting tool. And that's how they, it's one of the many reasons they get recruits. You look at some of the facilities that the SEC teams have. It's just insane. If you can do that in professional football, go ahead, do it, start recruiting players that way. That's where I would start off. Well, that's very nice of you, Jonathan.

This was put on a tee to make fun of the Washingtonhington franchise and you're like i hope the players have a good time so you have a big heart and and and you could see it in that answer because i have all stupid answers number one though is number one though get rid of this name get rid of this oh yeah absolutely the what the commanders is idiotic and it's not catchy it doesn't sound awesome it just sounds silly it sounds made up it sounds like something that when you create your own madden franchise it's one that you pass on so it'll have like weird animals or something you could pick and then it's like commanders like no i'm doing commanders i need something cooler than admirals no like that was a horrible team name and they should have just kept it as

washington football team everybody was fine with it it worked out well they had cool jerseys with washington football team it sort of sounded old school it sounded like an old soccer club or something it was awesome i actually liked it they should have stuck with that uh commanders just sounds cheesy and silly so get rid of that also they should build a statue of daniel snyder now stay with me here stay with me and have fans take turns knocking it down so you build a statue it's daniel snyder and then people come with baseball bats and they knock it down like a pinata until it falls into the Potomac river. Okay. That's, that's my other idea. I think, and then sure, I guess the locker rooms or whatever, but like those, those are the, those are the key elements.

Uh, I would also, let's see. I, Oh, I would fire everyone. Absolutely. Everyone, every per I don't care. I'm sorry if it's not your fault every single person is fired who works for the team the players you have to keep because some of them are good everyone is fine ron rivera seems like a wonderful person i'm sorry you were here during daniel snyder you're fired everyone's fired we're just starting from scratch with a whole new group of people and no cheerleaders this franchise will not have cheerleaders we are not making the mistakes of the past folks there is no cheerleaders allowed in this entire franchise because you guys have problems with those. I'm releasing that second accounting book that was held back from Congress and everybody saying, all right, here's what was going on.

Put it out there. Yep. Here's what was going on. And we're going to return every kick we can. That's my other rule is we're gonna we're gonna by the way we're gonna look into lamar jackson for one ron rivera being like no i mean sam howell might be brought he said he might be brock purdy buddy we don't even know if brock purdy's good just say you're colluding. Just say you're colluding. Yeah.

Just say we're colluding. Embarrassing. Come on, folks. Come on. It was like when they used to ask about Colin Kaepernick, and it'd be like, no, we're good with Scott Tolzien as our backup. He's just as good as a guy who took a team to the Super Bowl. And you're like, are you just colluding against the guy?

I guess you were. And they were fined, fined for that and had to pay out to him. So proven, which might be the case with Lamar Jackson, when they go back and look at all the tweets from the reports that teams aren't looking into it, but when it comes to yeah, Sam Howell, we're good. Yeah. We're good with Sam Howell. No reason to look into Lamar after I fired everyone. We'll look into Lamar and he and when he says look uh I only want one thing I can't be called a commander done done Lamar you'll get your guaranteed money your new stadium your new locker room and you won't have to refer to yourself as a commander that's just that's just tough so that's what I'll do uh last thing Odell Beckham

showed up in green pants do you have any green pants to the owners meetings? Do you have green pants? I have light blue pants that look like Christmas wrapping, but no green pants. No green pants. Yeah, I don't have a pair of green pants. What is your most uniquely colored pant? I think the one I just said, it looks like Christmas wrapping, but they're pajama pants. But no, pajama pants don't count.

I have like Los Angeles Dodgers pajama pants. Everyone's got, everyone has pajama pants. I mean like that you'd wear in public. I got nothing. I got nothing. I wear khakis, gray and khaki color. That's about it. It's, I'm horrible when it comes to any sort of style.

So I just have, I have like dark blue jeans and light blue jeans. Can't do jeans anymore. Oh, you're not, well, maybe post COVID, you know, post everybody staying home wearing sweatpants and your job is mostly from your basement or whatever. So you don't have to worry about it. But some of us who go in public sometimes, Jonathan, do have to put on regular pants.

Anyway, I was impressed with his look. Maybe it's a sign that he wants to go to the New York jets. Maybe not wearing the green pants. Where should he go? Where do you think he ends up and will he make a difference? I think he will make a difference having the year off getting better or getting just recovered and having that year off is going to help him help his body feel better. And he saw the difference he made for the Los Angeles Rams when he was with them two seasons ago. I think he still has something left in this game. He's always made a difference essentially wherever he's gone.

So I think he'll, he'll make a difference for whatever team he ends up in where he goes. I'm not sure where he should go. It's probably, I would say the bills go team up with Josh Allen and Stefan digs and have one heck of an offense there and go and succeed there. Cause they're going to need help. Cause the defense is going to get a little worse this year.

Go play some incredibly fun football in Buffalo. I like it. I like it. I think that that was the big thing they were missing last year and they won 13 games or something. So, you know, the big thing they were missing was,

and there should have been even one more, but they literally fumbled it away at the goal line against the Vikings. I think that's a perfect location. That's a team that's chasing a Superbowl. Once Rogers comes to the jets, the division's a little bit harder. I think that the Patriots will be better by the fact that Matt Patricia doesn't work there anymore. Somehow, if I took over the commanders, I would also hire Matt Patricia and fire Matt Patricia. The same day I would hire him. I would say, hey, Matt, unpack everything into your office. OK, like spend the whole day unpacking, get your whole office set up.

Buy a house. Yeah, buy a house. I get all set up and then I go into his office as he fired. You're the worst and i hate you and i did that on purpose you're fired it's amazing these owners don't do crazier stuff because i've got a whole list of things i want to do to matt patricia alone because anyway he's the worst nothing so i i mean like to torture okay i'm not gonna no no to make his life so it happens at 10 o'clock on on youtube to make his life more challenging how is that for you jonathan stop giggling for goodness sake uh what was the question oh yeah uh odell beckham i don't think he should go to the jets because i don't know that it's gonna work out with the jets I really don't like with Aaron Rodgers. I think they could be good and it's very possible that they could, but it's also,

it could be really mediocre. And we've seen that before that sometimes bringing in Russell Wilson or Kirk Cousins doesn't always mean you just repeat everything that happened the year before. I mean, Teddy Bridgewater had a way better season with the Denver Broncos than Russell Wilson did. Who would have ever thought that? But a lot of times when you chase the good roster, not everything, just history repeats itself. So it ends up being not as good of a move as it seems. I'm not saying he's going to be completely bust, but I don't know if I'm Odell that I want to go there.

Garrett Wilson is very clearly their top receiver. Elm Lazard has been with Rogers for a really long time. I don't know exactly. I mean, does he want a, like a place to be for a long time? Does he want the quarterback? Because the AFC has a lot of good receivers already would vegas be a good place to go play with davante adams but then you're in that division but does he care about that division or does he care about i don't know i mean he went to the

rams to hook on to go win a super bowl so i imagine he wants to do the same thing i'm trying to think of anything better than what you said in buffalo and i'm really struggling to come up with something they'll be the third wide receiver in Miami. Yeah. I mean, I don't know, like there's, but do you want to be an AFC where it's harder or,

you know, there's just a lot of questions there. So I think you kind of nailed the best possible team, but you know, Vegas could be an interesting playoff team or the chargers could be a team. I mean, cause you know, Justin Herbert does not have that many weapons. So maybe you end up being his top guy. It just doesn't seem like that's been really

in the discussion. And there's some other teams that have good rosters, but don't have clear quarterbacks. So, you know, Atlanta is brought up and you know, maybe, I mean, Atlanta would be a great place to go play if they got Lamar Jackson, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen. So yeah, that'll be interesting to see where he lands. I do think he could still be a difference maker. I agree with you. That doesn't mean a superstar, but I think nobody, I don't remember anybody changing the narrative surrounding them more than he did with Los Angeles. The guy played great. He just played great. The Jaguars is a good one. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, catches a touchdown before he gets hurt in the Super Bowl. And they don't get there without him because Robert Woods got hurt that year.

And he was their clear cut number two. I really like the Jacksonville idea. I mean, if Jacksonville was running out, Christian Kirk, Kelvin Ridley, and Odell Beckham, that is a great situation to be in. That Kelvin Ridley storyline is underrated that he's coming back and hasn't played in a year because of the suspension, but he was a really good receiver in Atlanta, and now you pair him with a really outstanding quarterback who looks like he's on the verge of taking that next step. That's going to be a dangerous offense and a fun offense to watch next year.

Say the Vikings grab themselves some cap space. Would you want Odell Beckham? Absolutely. Yeah. You don't have a wide receiver too right now. You can get one that still has plenty left in the tank. It seems like absolutely you pair them with Justin Jefferson because there's already the friendship there and you, it will make Justin Jefferson happy, which will make signing him to that extension

a little bit easier. It's not going to give you a discount, but it's going to make his decision a little bit easier. So yeah, absolutely. You bring in Odell Beckham Jr. If you get enough cap space. The thing I'd be concerned about is he's still Odell Beckham. Like, yeah, that does make you a little nervous about putting him with Justin Jefferson because make no mistake, like he won the Superbowl and he deserves every bit of credit that he got for that year before that though. I mean, is there anybody known as sort of the bigger problematic wide receiver than Odell Beckham who had, you know, made his way out of New York, then made his way out of Cleveland. And then, you know,

he turns that whole thing around and it seems like a boy scout. I don't know that he's a boy scout. I mean, Justin Jefferson so far in his career has handled superstardom in a very Julio Jones ish way where he's, he just goes about it for somebody who is so, so popular. He's very quiet about it. And the same thing for, uh, for someone like Julio was a top three receiver at any point in his career. And yet, you know, he never really acted like it. I don't know that I want to bring someone into the locker room that is like i'm not i'm not sure about that it with with and you mentioned it with how justin jefferson has handled the incredible stardom that's followed him and being the best wide receiver in the league i don't feel like odell

beckham jr would have a negative impact on his personality or how he would handle things. It feels like going into this season, he's kind of set into who he is at this point. He's still young, still impressionable, obviously, but it just feels like a guy who's handled stardom like he has, who's handled that spotlight as well as he has. There's really nothing against him. It doesn't seem like there's any skeletons in that closet right now that anybody's brought out. I don't feel like Odell Beckham jr.

Despite being kind of the diva that he is at points. It doesn't feel like he would have any negative impact on Jeff, Justin Jefferson. Heck it might go the opposite way with how Odell or with how Jefferson's handled. Everything might be able to kind of keep the reins on Odell or with how Jefferson's handled everything might be able to kind of keep the reins on Odell a little bit considering if it does work out and that offense is high flying why would you act up and why would you make noise when everything's going well for

you yeah I I don't know I mean people close to Odell would have to tell me like that's the thing is we don't really know has he matured with age or, uh, is it something where you'd be a little concerned about him coming to the locker room? I don't know, but I think that he can still, the last time we saw him and it's hard to know coming off of an ACL

injury, but ACL injuries are just not something that seems to hinder people. The last time we saw him, he was playing terrific football. And if he can still do that, then you could kind of go all in, but also maybe get him for multiple years. I think it's worth having that conversation, but I still think that maybe it's a little,

it's a little dicey because it's such a big celebrity, such a big personality either way that I don't know. I think that you want Jefferson dominating that role. Like think of who his wide receiver coach is. Keenan McArdle. Like Keenan McArdle was the ultimate all-time great wide receiver too. He was unbelievably good, but he totally understood his role. He understood Jimmy Smith the the guy and then

just did what he was supposed to do what you don't want is any potential conflict and even with theelin like there seemed to be a little bit of why don't you throw me the ball more with adam theelin that sort of sneaks out after the year that i'm sure was festering during the season that he still wanted to be that one B you need somebody who takes on fully that I am wide receiver to, to, to throw back a reference that only Hendon hooker is old enough to get the John Taylor, right? I mean, the Jake Reed is another good one where it's somebody who fully takes on that role and embraces it. Uh, yeah, I don't know. I mean, if they, if they do it, I would not say, look, it's insane. What are they

doing? I just think that there's some questions to answer before you do it. But if they do look, I mean, at least it's an all-in season to try to win this year, maybe the last year of Kirk Cousins. So it would make it certainly very interesting. But I think that a lot of the concerns that get expressed and some of them in the comment section are things that we don't really know. Like teams have seen Odell Beckham workout. We have not. So they know what that looks like. They know what a workout looks like. If I went to his workout, I'd be like, Oh my God, that guy's fast. But I, but I don't know. Like, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I know when guys are playing well in training camp practices, but if you, if you put some cones out for an NFL player and have them run around the NFL dudes know how to look at that. I don't, I would just be amazed.

Um, so, you know, they could bring in a guy who played in the XFL and it would be impressive probably. So they'll know what kind of shape he's in and they'll know what kind of mental space he's in as well, better than us. So if they sign them, that means that they've checked off those boxes. Anyway, as always lots of fun, Jonathan and everybody who joined in the chat appreciate you we didn't our only mistake was i should have asked the chat maybe do we want to give this a minute like if you were good if you're going to rename the washington football team take away the commanders you would name it blank go ahead guys just throw throw throw some out there throw some potential washington football names out there because that would be

the first thing that i would do is get rid of that name i would go back i'm going washington i'm going washington team football just so my initials can be what they would be wcf yeah i always it's a huge missed opportunity to not go Washington team football. Come on. See, I always thought it was funny to, like, picture them just a random animal that makes no sense. Like, think about how it's the Utah Jazz. There's no jazz in Utah, folks. They don't have any jazz out there.

That's because they were the other thing and they moved. So, you know, same kind of thing with the los angeles lakers there are no lakes in los angeles in comparison to where they came from but since they came from minneapolis lots of lakes in minneapolis that ends up being funny or just when college teams are hey kansas state or villanova you run out of thoughts for a mascot. They're just, you know, the wild cats, wild cat. What? That's of all the animals in the world. Like you have some teams, which I support called the Greyhounds.

You have teams that are the great Danes of Albany. There are all sorts of great nicknames. And these teams went with wild cats. Like how boring is that? We got the uh washington wankers that's a good one washington dumpster fire washington mongoose is funny washington poisonous bears i don't get it but it's funny i don't uh washington company what does that that, uh, so like that'll play on that old exploring companies.

I don't know. I don't, yeah, I don't know. You're gonna, you're gonna have to explain that one. Um, anyway,

give you guys something to think about for next time, I guess what you would, I always thought it would be funny if they were the sharks though. Just like we're the Washington sharks. Yes. Like why? I have no idea. Washington cocaine bears.

Yeah. I was hoping that that would come out and that everyone's into that now. So anyway, you guys are the best. I appreciate y'all watching again and we will, we will do it again soon. I'm not sure if anything's going to break this week and we're going to pop on live or if,

you know, we'll just be kind of back on our usual schedule. So good stuff, Jonathan and the 69ers is it just had to happen. I had to be, and that's where we will end. So good night, everyone. And thank you for your audience participation. We'll catch y'all next time.