Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - The roundtable disagrees on how good the Vikings can be post-Kirk

Episode Date: November 2, 2023

Matthew Coller is joined by Will Ragatz of Sports Illustrated and Andrew Krammer of the Star Tribune to discuss Jaren Hall starting and what type of performance we expect from the Vikings after Kirk Cousins' injury and how to interpret Kwesi Adofo-Mensah's press conference Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here along with Will Raggetts of Sports Illustrated, Andrew Kramer of the Star Tribune for our weekly roundtable inside TCO Performance Center. And, you know, nothing to talk about. I guess we'll just get into the breakdowns between the offensive guards for the Falcons and the defensive tackles of the Vikings. And I mean, there should be a battle there with the running game. No Grady Jarrett. I know. Well, that actually is a factor.

Well, Jaron Hall's starting, if that hasn't been brought up yet. Where do you want to start with this one, Will? Yeah, I thought we should maybe talk about special teams, gunner matchups or third string running back. No, we are not hurting for things to talk about. Obviously, Kirk Cousins got hurt. That has been covered extensively on this podcast. And the trade deadline happened and the Vikings went out and got Josh Dobbs. They continue to live in both worlds by trading Ezra Cleveland.

They didn't trade to Neil Hunter. It's all kind of a fascinating puzzle coming together as a 4-4 team moves forward without its quarterback, without its leader. But I think we got to start and talk about the quarterback situation moving forward. And Andrew, what was your reaction to them going out to get somebody like Josh Dobbs, where he's been starting all year, he's shown some signs, but he also hasn't been great. And it's not the type of move of maybe going to get a Jacoby Brissett or a Jameis Winston or any of the outlandish possibilities that were floated. But it's also not like a Colt McCoy.

This is a guy who realistically, unless Jaron Hall shows you a lot, he can be your starter and he can maybe get this team to the playoffs. Yeah, after listening to Kwesi Adolfo-Mensah Wednesday, um, after the trade deadline, what became clear to me was, uh, this was the best they could do on a short list, uh, for a team that did not want to spend a ton of resources to go out and get, uh, something much better. And Josh Dobbs is somebody the Cardinals were looking to get rid of for the bottom price of, of a late round pick swap. And the Vikings said, yes, thank you. And Matt, we were talking before this podcast, maybe they were interested in a Jacoby Percet type

or something else, but this is an insurance policy. It's a veteran option. It's somebody who can at least make you relevant in some games against, you know, an Atlanta Falcons, potentially if he were up to the task, but it's going to be Jaron Hall. But when they play later on, teams like the Bears on Monday night

currently or the Broncos, they'll still be able to win some games. And clearly Kevin O'Connell and his coaching staff thinks they can still go somewhere even with a veteran quarterback. This to me said that Nick Mullins is not healthy enough to play right away, that they're also unsure of when he'll be ready to play. And that's why you get a guy like Dobbs to come in and at least guide this offense in a way that frankly Jaron Hall should not be expected to do as a fifth round rookie. I understand the notion that fans want to see him and want to kind of give the rest of the season and see what you got. He has not been prepared to do that. He has not been given the first team reps. He was not anywhere near sniffing that in training camp. And frankly,

what we saw in training camp didn't give you confidence that you wanted to see much more right away. So I think Dobbs is the guy they bring in to make sure they don't have to play Jaron Hall much longer than Sunday. Yeah, the main goals seem to be let's make sure we don't waste everybody's time, that we don't waste the time of Christian Derrissaw or Jordan Addison. And we're able to continue to develop Jordan Addison and make sure someone can throw him a reasonable football to give them a shot. And let's not waste Kevin O'Connell's time, because if you make it just Jaron Hall and he struggles and you don't have Mullins and then Sean Mannion's only your other quarterback, you're talking about losing a lot of football games and wasting a lot of people's season away and i think there was a lot of push within the building to not do that and quesita fomenta i thought it was interesting spent a lot of time seemingly defending not

trading away daniel hunter including a and sometimes there's these winding roads that he goes on to make a point so you kind of have to follow along. And he was making a point about if you're going to say that you're going to play relevant games all the time, which he said that him and Kevin O'Connell agreed on this. We're going to play meaningful games all the time. Then if you're going to not play meaningful games, there has to be a really great reason why, which to me says no one offered us a first for Daniil Hunter that's what it says to me or maybe even a second maybe I mean gosh I feel like with Montez Sweat getting a second but even then like you said like that's not but if they didn't then

that's what the compensatory pick is going to be as a third rounder more than likely so that's kind of the point that's being made there and you kind of have to go through with your finger and try to sort out like, OK, what is he really trying to say to us here? And it seems to me that he said it wasn't worth it to tank to us because we could have. But we didn't we didn't think that it had the value that maybe some people think it is. And he even made a point about like other sports and how he imagined himself sitting in the seat of other general managers and if i was in that gm seat i would trade this or that until you're the gm that actually has the organization that's looking at you and a lot of competing interests and i guess i've started to think of this thing like a big brother house or whatever like where you know

they would have some narrator or something i've never seen the show they would have someone being like but tony wanted them to you know someone else to do the dishes or something you know what i mean but then there's theo epstein and how did he handle it right in the house yeah just like these but but people having competing interests and wants and needs and it being from the ownership to the players to the head coach and this this is why being a GM is way harder than we make it sound when we lay out all of their options. So that was, that was kind of my feeling on the entire thing and where Dobbs plays into

that is we weren't willing to give up anything that mattered to get someone better than Josh Dobbs. I, you guys may think he's going to make them relevant or keep them relevant. I'm not super confident in that after watching a little bit of Josh Dobbs, but I guess we'll get into that. Yeah. I mean, there were a lot of interesting things that Kweisi said on Wednesday. I think that was probably the big one that we want to play meaningful football games. But like you said, there's, there's, they're priced everything. I get when fans think, Oh, just, just roll with Jaron Hall. And worst cases,

you lose a bunch of games and you tank and you end up near the top of the draft board. But it's really not that simple when there's ownership talking about it. He said there's players texting him or talking to him and saying, you know, we're gelling right now. We don't want you to trade away pieces. We want to keep going with this thing. And he's obviously going to make decisions,

and that's not going to be a huge factor into it. But I think it's true that true that like the Vikings feel like even if they just get competent level quarterback play they don't need somebody to come in and be Kirk Cousins because that's not realistic that's not going to happen but if Jaron Hall takes some big step and he's been really developing behind the scenes and we haven't seen it or if Josh Dobbs comes in maybe it's a week from now against the Saints or it's in two weeks or whatever and he can play at you know the level that he showed earlier this season he has the results have not been great for him you think he's one and nine as a starter but that was also in the

context of thrust into two games last year with the Titans playing on maybe the worst team in football this year like this is a huge upgrade in surrounding for him. And he beat the Cowboys earlier this year. Like he has some juice to him as a thrower, as a dual threat, he can run with the ball. Um, I think if they can just get baseline level play, like they can be in a lot of games with the schedule that they have. So that's probably the logic from the Vikings. You're not, I mean, you're not going to win the Superbowl this year with, without Kirk Cousins. It was already going to be tough to do so with Kirk Cousins, even if he continued playing at the level we saw over the last two weeks. But this way, at least you, I think you make a good point. You don't waste people's time

and you can move forward. And in the NFC, I mean, they're in the seventh seed right now. They're competing with like the two teams they play the next couple of weeks, the Falcons and the Saints for that spot and a few other teams, you can get in and see what happens. And I don't know. I get it. I get going to get Josh Dobbs, and he's almost certainly not going to be your option after this season. Jaron Hall is almost certainly not going to be your option after this season.

But you're not throwing away the season and having to look at your players and essentially tell them that we're giving up on this thing when you've won three in a row. Yeah, it's still going to be a gigantic change and shift. And Kevin O'Connell, when you listen to these coaches talk, you can tell how they're trying to kind of reconfigure the offense. O'Connell's talking about letting playmakers make plays and talking about how when I used to talk at Kirk, you know, before a play in the mic kind of communication that I could understand what he's thinking and how he's responding to what I'm saying. All of that is going to be new with Josh Dobbs, the guy who's

had no such training camp or practices or games together. How they adjust at the line is going to be different. How O'Connell is going to have to be more hands-on with what they run in a given play and not be able to adjust as much without Kirk Cousins at the line. All of these things are going to have to change. And I think credit to the coaching staff for being obviously aware of that, having a plan for Jaron Hall, even on Sunday at Lambeau, that was different than what Kirk Cousins was running. All of these things are good and they will help them be relevant. So I say that to say that Josh Dobbs is probably getting the best coaching that he's gotten. And it will be in the best system with the best teammates that he's gotten. And that's why I think this team will be relevant, at least with Brian Flores and with

what they're putting together with the schedule and all that. So Dobbs gives them a floor that I think is certainly much higher than Jaron Hall's and allows people to not waste their time, as you said. I think there's levels of backup quarterbacks. There's probably five backup quarterbacks who could be starters if their teams weren't tanking or just, you know, there was no point to say Chicago having a really good backup quarterback, but like Teddy Bridgewater was what seven and seven with Denver. He's the best Denver quarterback since Peyton Manning. You know, so that that's probably what Teddy Bridgewater would give you is like 500 quarterback play james winston who knows it could be like really good or horrendous the panthers best

quarterback game this year was the one time they played andy dalton but they have no reason to play andy dalton right right with with this with this team andy dalton would give you a very legitimate shot to go nine and eight but if you're the carolina panthers you're just like i don't know we kind of like andy dalton and why like, seems like you guys really need a quarterback. So how about like a fourth, you know? And it was very clear that they drew a line in the sand. We will only spend this much for our quarterback situation, which means you're not doing everything you possibly could have done. And Jacoby Bursette, you know, there was a report out there that someone offered Washington a sixth

and they didn't think it was enough. So they didn't do everything they could to possibly reach the playoffs this year, which I think is pretty commendable because like you don't raise a championship trophy by reaching the playoffs with Jacoby Brissett and then getting pounded into the ground by Seattle or something. Right. Like, so I think the way that they handled it was good, but I also think that maybe there's, I guess I I'm skeptical of how many games they can actually win under these circumstances because that level of quarterback Dobbs in my mind is not really that close to that. Like the guys who have started in one games and everything else. I think he's, he's at the level of like barely

in the nfl and you know like an aj mccarron type of level quarterback and he's got like one game where we've seen anything other than that in the entire nfl and the game he gets praised for the most he threw a game losing interception like so i yeah i don't know i mean i i think they went out of their way to stay as hard on the competitive rebuild path what no one thinks we're tanking but we're definitely not actually competing for anything and it's a weird place to be it sounds like a hidden rebuild almost like we're gonna rebuild but we really don't want it to seem like we're rebuilding right yeah right i wish i let me think of you guys talk i'll think of a metaphor for this but but i mean it really it really feels that way that like you're doing okay i've got it uh it's the way that i do my yard work so i have a neighbor that does beautiful work with their

yard i mean they've got flowers and they've got plants and all sorts of stuff. And they, when it's, it's a drought, they'll like water it and everything. Here's what I do when the grass gets a little too long, I chop it down and it's good enough. It's like, okay, no one's going to think I'm a dirt bag for like letting my lawn get all completely out of control. But also I'm not really trying here it's just do good enough so it looks okay but i'm not trying to win any competitions for how good my yard is yeah i i think i'm a little bit more optimistic about the dobbs thing and i don't know if that's i mean i really haven't dived into the tape or whatever on him but i think just from some of the glimpses I've seen, like in the context of what the Vikings have with the offensive line, with the pass catchers, with the defense, I mean, he's –

the reason they brought him in, I think a big reason is he's been asked to do this several times to pick up an offense right away. Last year with Tennessee, they signed him and they thrust him in as a starter for two games quickly. This year he got traded from the Browns to the Cardinals on like August 25th or something, and he was starting week one, and he picked that offense up. And Kevin O'Connell's offense is – we've heard a lot from Kirk Cousins and people over the years about how hard it is to learn,

but I think a somewhat simplified version, he might be able to pick up and go by next week against the Saints. So I think he gives you something. To me, it feels like they're going to be in games if the defense continues playing at this level. Because this is now three or four games in a row where the Brian Flores defense has played at a high level, and you come away thinking,

wow, that was a really good game plan for that opponent. To be fair, the Packers offense is, I think, the worst they've played all year, and that includes Tyson Bajan coming in with the Bears. They were dropping everything. They couldn't do a thing, but give a little credit to Brian Flores and his game plan and the way Josh Metellus is playing and the way even DJ Wanham has shown some sparks. I think they're just going to be in these 17-17 games in the third quarter, and they're going to have a chance to win. And Josh Dobbs has made a lot of mistakes this year. He's got like 13 turnover-worthy plays, according to PFF.

But he can also throw the ball to the right spot sometimes, and he can run the ball. I think he gives you a much higher floor than Jaron Hall. I think we can agree on that. So in that sense, I get it. But also, the's a weird, the whole competitive rebuild thing is weird because you go get Josh Dobbs. And then at the same time you trade away as your Cleveland and you weaken your offensive line depth.

And then you don't trade Daniel Hunter. And it's like, I know that there's a price for all of these things, but it's just, it's, it's tough to see which world they're, they're trying to live in. I don't know. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Folks, if you're struggling with the holiday blues and you're having some trouble getting excited in the same way that other people in your life do about holiday get togethers, and all of that just sounds stressful to you, then maybe it might be helpful to add something new in your life to help deal with those feelings. That's where therapy could be a bright spot for you.

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to get 10% off your first month today. That's betterhelp.com slash insider. Let me just ask you a quick question. With Kirk insider. Uh, let me just ask you a quick question with Kirk cousins who was playing great. How many multiple score wins did they have this year? They had one, one in green Bay,

which I mean, green Bay had many chances to not make that a one score win. So we're thinking that Josh Dobbs is able to do the same then. Well, we're also, we're, we're thinking this stretch of the schedule is a lot easier than the one they just went through. We're thinking that Russell Wilson, Derek Carr, Taylor Heineke.

I just think that they're going to be in enough close games and maybe score a couple more defensive touchdowns where the water level is going to be low enough that I do think they will win a few more games. I'm not saying they're going to even be above 500 by the end of the year. This might be very well a 7-10 team, and they're shooting at best for that. But that is the floor that they want to be at. And to your point, not waste anybody's time. The stats that TJ Hawkinson puts up or whatever, this is still going to be an offense that can operate and be able to be a second half of a season that produces something

for this team. And to your point, they decided that's the line we're drawing of being somewhat relevant because we cannot invest anything more to be anything more than that. Now, you guys, you could be right. Like they might because their pass catchers and pass protection are so good. And the defense has come together. they very well could be in every one of these games i also think that imagination land is a place that we live in a lot when it comes to quarterbacks like but if he only does this you know i mean imagine if he can like just do this and uh i don't know about that i mean because because my career before here was in buffalo where they would run out like kelly holcomb or jeff tool or ej manual and we would have the

same discussions well they have good receivers and if they could only just do this and this and this and then they'd win four games it was so what's the difference between what we're saying if i'm saying seven and ten are you just saying four and like they don't know another game? What would you say? They're over under and wins that. No, I think I think seven is fine. I mean, I'm just I'm just saying that, like when you talk about can they actually be in this playoff race? I'm really going to need to see that because the drop off.

And this is where I think the discussion will eventually go by the end of the season will be the drop off from Kirk Cousins to a guy who could be playing in the XFL next year is pretty massive. And I'm sorry, Josh Dobbs, you seem like a really smart guy, way smarter than me, way better at sports than me. But I'm going to have to see you do something better than one in nine in order to believe that there's anything more there, because we seen this quarterback this level of quarterback play a lot in the nfl and nick nick mullins is probably better than josh dobbs and when he played for san francisco they went like 4 and 12. it's a hard league like there's just not that you know there's not many people who can do what kirk cousins does and i i think it's going to help his case by the end of the year. I think it's going to help his case because Kevin O'Connell is going to be like, boy, we can do a lot of stuff with Kirk Cousins that we can't do with these backup quarterbacks, which is another discussion

of how we read that situation with Kwesi Adafo-Mentz's comments. I think there's a very good chance you're right. And they really struggle, whether it's Jaron Hall, whether it's probably going to be Josh Dobbs and they win two or three more games the rest of the way to me i just look around at the other teams the teams on their schedule the other teams that are in the race for the 17 i'm like these are bad teams with quarterback play that isn't that far above that bar that you would maybe say josh dobbs could potentially get to yeah he's no better than or worse than desmond Ritter. Desmond Ritter.

Desmond. He's better than Desmond Ritter. Taylor Heineke. I think he's better than Jordan Love. I'd rather have Taylor Heineke than Dobbs. Maybe. I don't know. We'll see.

I mean, I guess we won't see them face off this weekend. But like, yeah, you're facing Taylor Heineke and you're facing the Broncos and whoever. I don't know. Is it going to be Aiden O'Connell when they play the Raiders? Like, you're not telling me that that guy's better than josh dobbs i mean i i know he's one in nine but am i not telling you that guy like these again like i know arizona's bad but the guys arizona had nothing one in nine he's like i mean i know i know i know but but at least james connor could not not okay OK. Oh, QB wins, whatever. OK.

All right. But is there any other metric to suggest he's been good? I looked at all of them. I couldn't find much. I do not think he obviously has not been good in the context of talking about all the starters who have played this year. I just think he gives there's a little bit of a dual threat element that if Kevin O'Connell can lean into could be interesting. I don't know.

Maybe I'm just trying to talk myself into the season, the rest of the season being interesting. I just, I think there's a chance, I guess let's, let's talk about this weekend though with Jaron Hall. It's a tough spot for him to be thrown into. And all the talk this week has been,

Hey, like don't, don't try to think about whether this game means you're going to have an NFL career or not. And Kevin O'Connell was saying like, you know, I used to to think about whether this game means you're going to have an NFL career or not. And Kevin O'Connell was saying like, you know, I used to think about that in my playing career and obviously it kind of was for him and he didn't play well and he didn't last very long as a quarterback. And he said, he's been sharing that with Jaron Hall and Jaron Hall has been saying, yeah, that's, that's, you know, that's what I'm trying to do as well. That's kind of

the reality. Like if he doesn't play well this week, who knows if he starts the game in the NFL again, like this is, this is his one opportunity. And I have no idea what to expect because the preseason was kind of a mess. He looked really raw, even just watching him in training camp. He looked really raw. I guess there's a sliver of a chance that he has been progressing and he

comes out and he plays pretty well, but I don't think that we can expect that at all if you told me in August if all of us sitting there watching training camp and you came up and say they're going to go to Atlanta in week what is it nine and they're not going to have Kirk Cousins Justin Jefferson or Marcus Davenport how do you think it's going to go or Nick Mullins or Nick yeah or their backup quarterback I think Matt when you talk about this getting ugly, I think the ugliest it might look is this Sunday.

I think the ugliest it might look is having to throw this young guy into the fire like this against a team that, when you look at Atlanta's games, their defense is not lights out, but they have been playing pretty sound in terms of keeping points down, keeping yardage somewhat manageable. It's hard to score typically on this Falcons team for many offenses, and it will be for Jaron Hall. It will be for a Vikings offense that also can't run the ball. They still can't run it with Madison or Akers.

And Dalton Reisner was not much better on Sunday. They had 25 carries for 50 yards as running backs. Behind Dalton Reisner at guard, this wasn't an Ezra Cleveland problem. This was many, many people's issue in this blocking scheme and at running back because these running backs are not creating. So I think the ugliest it's going to look is Sunday. I think Jaron Hall doesn't have much of a chance. I think Taylor Heineke has, you know, a skill group that if you're stacking them up with the Vikings, even without Jefferson is pretty great. So I think they're going to I think the only way the Vikings pull this game out

is if Arthur Smith does some real Arthur Smith stuff. I was going to I was going to mention that. This is the one area I would give you is I think that the Vikings have one of the best coaching staffs in the NFL from their head coach to their defensive coordinator to their position coaches, which I mean keenan mccardle cannot be overstated how good keenan mccardle is at his job nobody ever talks about keenan mccardle because he's a receivers coach and we don't know what a receivers coach does because he doesn't call plays but this this is a guy that jefferson fought for to stay when they fired mike

zimmer and that has paid off i I mean, you see the development of Jordan Addison, Jordan Addison second in the league and receiving touchdowns, like among all play, not among rookies, among all players, which, you know, look, it's because he's a first round pick and he's very talented, but you know, we just see progress from every one of their receivers under Keenan McArdle, including Justin Jefferson, continuing to get better. And I think that in comparison, Arthur Smith, I'm not sure has any idea what he's doing and a shout out to Kurt Warner who put out a video of some of the offensive play designs, uh, which were just astounding. Like they told like,

what is going on with this? And maybe, maybe the quarterback wasn't making the right checks. I don't know, but just things that would blow your mind for how bad some of their passing concepts were. That's what I think could keep them in the game is that they do have this really good defensive coordinator who's elevated the play. And they do have, you know, an offensive mind that can probably adapt. I just think this is a lot to ask from Jaron Hall. He was never supposed to be starting at this point. He was supposed to develop and eventually maybe become a Nick Mullins. I don't think there was ever this idea that he was like a big time prospect. And usually if that was going to happen, we would have seen in training camp in preseason, these signs. So this could, it could be a rough ride for them. Um, but if they're going to stay in it,

it's just finding a way to scheme around that. I think, I mean, one thing is from college to the NFL, it's just so much faster. And he took a lot of sacks in preseason. I'm just not sure how that's supposed to translate in one week. He took a strip sack on like his second drop back at Lambeau. And that was, it was, it was not a great rep for Christian Derrissaw against Preston Smith, but it's going to be really tough for Jaron Hall. I think if they had a good or even competent run game, that would give me a little more confidence that they could kind of manage things for Jaron Hall

and put him in third and shorts and have these schemed-up looks for him and throws that aren't that difficult, and you don't have to be doing full field reads like Kirk Cousins. But I don't know. This is going to be the ultimate test of Kevin O'Connell as a game plan designer, as a play caller, as a coach, as somebody who can adjust on the fly on a week where you lose Kirk Cousins and you have to go with Jaron Hall.

Like, can they even put up 14 points on offense or something and maybe get a defensive touchdown and use the formula they use in the Bears game where, to be fair, they didn't do anything on offense in the second half and they still found a way to win. That was against the Bears and Tyson Bajent. And I think the Falcons are a little bit more competent than that. It's a four and four team, despite Desmond Ritter being maybe the worst starter in the league and turning the ball over more than he scored touchdowns and things like that. But like you said, the skill, position, talent, Drake London, Kyle Pitts, Bajon Robinson, it's a solid offensive

line. The defense, I don't know. They've been pretty good against the run, at least according to the metrics, and not very good against the pass. And now they lose Grady Jarrett. But there are some NFL players on that defense. And and they're probably going to blitz the heck out of Jaron Hall with Ryan Nielsen, who the Vikings interviewed for defensive coordinator before they hired at Donatello. Like they're just going to find ways to make it tough on Jaron Hall. And that's why I don't have a ton of optimism for this week. I just think moving forward, when you talk about Broncos and the Bears and the Raiders, I think Josh Dobbs can have you in those games and win some of them.

But this week could be tough. Yeah, I think this is, I'm not breaking news here. It's going to be a boring game to watch because not just the quarterback matchup, but I think the coaches are going to call the game. The offensive play callers are going to call the game accordingly and be conservative and understand that it's probably going to come down to which quarterback doesn't make the catastrophic play, which quarterback doesn't give up the defensive touchdown, which quarterback doesn't, you know, the strip sack, pick six, whatever,

because both guys are absolutely capable of doing that on Sunday. And both defenses are capable of creating that havoc. And I think O'Connell is going to be incredibly conservative. We're going to see probably a lot of three and outs. It's just going to be, you know, Ryan Wright is going to have to be the star for the Vikings in this game. Is it going to look like a giants jets last week with Tommy DeVito versus Zach Wilson? I mean, yeah, I don't know. These, these are two calamity franchises that always find ways to have hilarious things happen to them. So maybe this is a 42 to 38 game that we never saw coming. Um, you know, uh, my, my, uh, my premonition crystal ball is not telling me

exactly what's going to happen here. Uh, the way it did against San Francisco. Um, but you know, I, one thing that has been brought up that i'm curious about your guys opinion though is the idea of this being a test case for kevin o'connell i do not look at it that way because i remember what backup quarterbacks look like it's been so long since the vikings have had to play one they look like kevin o'connell well or sean manion what he did against green bay or i mean we we've seen so many of them come in against the Vikings, and you're like, oh, well, I expected the Vikings to beat them. And because we cover them, we give the defense credit

when they play against the bad quarterback and succeed. It's like, well, great job, defense. On their side, their podcasts are like, oh, my God. Why do I have to watch this backup play so bad you do you folks remember spurgeon win how did that go hey todd bauman had some moments i will say though you don't have to look back that far in vikings history you always go back to like sean hill and brooks bollinger and gus farah was actually pretty good gus was a beast but gus gus was more of the level of a quarterback who could be a starter

yeah like that's what that's like what we're talking about the difference between that and a Jaron Hall or in my mind to Josh Dobbs I mean I'm like the guy with the sign like prove me wrong like I'm gonna have to see it um when we you know talk about these reasons why he hasn't been good in Arizona but I don't even think there's really been signs. This is sort of a Josh McCown level quarterback who like everyone loves, but can't actually win anything unless there's like that one little time he played with Chicago. So, but Kevin O'Connell as a test case with these backup quarterbacks, I do not look at it that way because of the quality of quarterback, but maybe you guys see it differently. No, I don't. I don't think, I mean, if it's an absolute disaster the rest of the way with Hall and Dobbs, that's like, that gives you a little bit of pause,

but it's, it's hard to put this on O'Connell. I don't think there's any sort of situation where his job depends on winning three more games or four more games or something like that. Just talking about the old like Vikings quarterbacks of the past, I think the bar for this game has to be like Joe Webb, Josh Freeman. Can they clear that? And I think Jaron Hall probably can, but I'm also not positive of that. I was at the 2012 playoff game where Joe Webb started, and people were upset that christian ponder was ruled

out which was kind of a weird sensation but that that is the that is the bar to clear here it's a great first drive though oh it was that field goal right yeah he was running he was running and it was like oh let's keep doing that and then they just stopped running and then and then it all fell apart so that that's the bar to clear uh i don't know how much better than that it's going to be the the one case you have is just know how much better than that it's going to be. The one case you have is just the pieces. And yeah, I think they're going to be conservative. They're going to try to just make it a straightforward game plan for Jaron Hall.

I think they should just come out, first play the game, do a play action boot and throw on like 60 yards downfield to Jordan Addison and see what happens. But that would probably end up in a strip sack touchdown for the Falcons. Folks, I hope you've enjoyed listening to us talk about prize picks this year. But if you've missed it, here's how it works. You go to prizepicks.com and it is simple. You pick either more or less between two and six player stat projections. And that's it. Now you're playing.

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and also not expensive either. You can turn $10 into $250 by nailing just a couple of picks. So go to prizepix.com slash purple, the code purple, Daily Fantasy Sports made easy. Yeah, yeah. No seven- step drops right out of the gate. I don't think you need that. I do think this, if Kevin O'Connell avoids a joke of a game that we

talk about 10 years later, like Josh Freeman success. And I don't think they're capable of that with this coaching staff. Cause as you mentioned, Matt, this is a very well-coached team. They are going to make it not totally embarrassing embarrassing it's just going to be a grind of a game that whoever scores the first touchdown and maybe a couple field goals ends up winning let's let's i mean unless you have something else we'll talk about our predictions at the end i think we've already kind of made them clear but let's talk about next year because the the kirk cousins thing is fascinating to me and there's this sense that I've been getting that like, maybe Kirk Cousins injury actually makes it more likely he's back next year. I don't know.

And you've talked about this, like he got injured after two of the best games of maybe his career, certainly of the last few years with the Vikings. And now everybody's remembering those, and they're thinking about the way he was playing, and that's fair. But also that means he never got the opportunity to have another bad stretch of games and kind of remind everybody what he's done over the years with the Vikings. And at a certain price, like let's say the Vikings get to even 7, 10, maybe 8, 9. I don't know what you do at quarterback if you don't feel like you can trade up for the Caleb Williams, Drake, Maytier. And there are going to be a lot of other teams that are interested in

those two players. It might come down to, do you like JJ McCarthy or somebody like that? Or do you just talk yourself into? And I think Kevin O'Connell, at least in his public comments, he really he really likes Kirk Cousins and what he was doing in this offense. I could see him being on the side of the discussion with Kweisi Rafa Mensah that let's let's bring Kirk Cousins back in this market's going to be a little bit deflated because of this injury. And he's 36 years old and all that and quasi might have to i don't know push back against that what's what's your sense of the the chances of kirk cousins being back in 2024 you guys ever watch pawn stars oh yeah okay i have not all right so uh and i think

i know the concept i can give you a sixth round pick quasi is the bald guy behind the counter and kirk cousins is the guy who brings in a guitar that supposedly Jimi Hendrix breathed on. And he says, I want $10,000 for my Jimi Hendrix guitar. The guy goes, can't do it. $5. I'll give you $120. And the guy's like, okay, all right, all right.

4,000. He's like, 140 bucks. And then that either works out or it doesn't. I think the same thing is going to happen with Kweisi Adafo-Mensa and the Vikings and Kirk Cousins' agent. Where it's going to be like, how about like 25 mil? How about 45 mil? How about 27 mil? And I don't know if you get those two close enough because the cap situation

uh is is clear and when flexibility got brought up uh i saw a little halo come up over quacey's head just like a like a shining light like flexibility at quarterback you know like the the angels spoke to him and so forth i he seemed to get excited about that and uh me too because i i think that you're right that you can always talk yourself into kirk that's why he's still here because you can always talk yourself into kirk but the money and the totality of the time here and by the way they're a four and four team this is not eight no they're four and four like i i know he played great no one's taken away they're four and four they're not eight and oh if if they lost them when they were seven and one and they looked like a super bowl team and he was vastly different than he was before then you know okay i would understand

trying to make that move that we could say it's O'Connell's magic or whatever else. I don't think he's any really vastly different than he was before, and how could you ever say it's going to get better after this? I think they could very – I mean, I think this is the devil's advocate, and Kweisi Adafamets has said this. He said, when we were 1-4, I didn't feel like we were 1-4. Like, they could be very easily 6-2 with absolutely normal turnover luck. And I know that's the if-if-if thing.

But that's also – over the last month, he cited this. They've been top 10 in offensive efficiency. They've been top 10 in defensive efficiency. I'm not saying that this is what you should do. But I'm saying you could talk yourself into the way this team was playing the last two weeks being more of a contender than they had ever been in the kirk cousins era and i don't still know how much of a contender that is you could talk yourself into pretty much every team over a month that's not horrible i mean right like if you look at the the other metrics like we're i mean just points

four points against expected points added scoring percentage on drives all those things this is an average nfl team like over a bigger sample not hey let's cut out the games or it wasn't that great and then it looks pretty good let's cut out greg joseph's missed field goals that he's amazing uh but we can't do that and the same thing is like we can't cut out of my brain what happened in carolina with her cousins we cannot cut out what happened in chicago where they couldn't move the football we couldn't have we can't cut out where philadelphia ran for 260 yards on them just because they were better against the horrific running game of the green bay packers this is always been a competitive rebuild average football team and so i mean yeah you can make that case but how are you going to get to a great

football team without cap space that would be the question like with having to bring cousins back and then in into the future over the next couple years build a super bowl contender how does that happen if he is here and that's always been the fundamental question and if we're going to project we're going to project a guy coming off of an Achilles injury to return to the play he was before, which I don't still think was good enough to win a Superbowl, like pretty tough sell for me, but I could see the head coach loving him so much that they want to talk themselves into it. And to me, that's talking yourselves right into eight, nine next year. I think the crux of this is how do they view Kirk as, as that player. And before the injury, they did not view him, to my understanding,

they did not view him as an elite, what you call, what, blue chip prospect or however. They viewed him in that tier underneath. And now do you suddenly, did that change because of his play in year two? Well, Quasey said this is what we thought it would look like in terms of year two in the system. So I don't know if it really did change much in terms of his play elevating their view of him. Now you put throwing the Achilles injury as you're talking about, 35-year-old. It's nice that Kwesi talks about this is not a normal 35-year-old, what he does in terms of recovery. All these things will help him.

I believe all that. But that is no different than what most of these athletes are doing. They're all pouring their blood, sweat, and tears into the recoveries and treatment of their bodies. He's going to recover at the way that modern medicine will allow anybody to, but this injury is going to continue to deteriorate who he is physically like it would anybody. And so I don't think much has changed. If I had to guess, I think they view him the same as they did before. I think they thought how he played the last two games was how they envisioned it in a perfect Kirk Cousins environment, and that they're not going to get

starstruck by that notion of, well, maybe this is now a Super Bowl contender with him. They're going to try to build the best team around him if they still have him, but I think they're also going to draw that hard line like they did with Josh Dobbs of, we can only spend so much on you, Kirk, because of how we view you as a player. And if you're going to demand more than that, then as Kweisi said, it's a two-way street. Just because I want him back doesn't mean we're going to be able to bring him back. Yeah. To be clear, I'm not advocating for bringing Kirk Cousins back. I have never been the biggest pro-Kirk guy. And I think the way that they've kind of dragged it along has been actually a little silly at times. And it's just going to come down to the question that we've

asked year after year after year after year. And it's what else do you do? But I think the answer has to be something else, anything else. And draft somebody, even if it's not one of those top two guys, take a chance on a JJ McCarthy or a Chidora Sanders or Michael Penix, even though he's like 28 years old with no ACLs. Like just something different that gives you, after Kirk's dead cap hit in 2024, that gives you that flexibility to fill in the pieces around Darisaw and Jefferson and, and whoever else your core guys are. I don't know if you're the one to make fun of people's age

versus what we expect. Well, I'm not so sure about that. No, I, I think, well, did it look every quarterback that gets drafted? There's going to be a reason not to draft them. There always is. Well, you know, he doesn't have any ACLs and he's old or he's you know he doesn't have great footwork like that Patrick Mahomes guy or hey that Josh Allen he's just not accurate enough or Jalen Hurts man I don't know he's just a running quarterback Lamar Jackson can't throw like every quarterback whoever makes it that isn't the number one overall pick always has some reason not to draft them uh the the trouble is to me it's always the interpersonal thing that's interesting on paper black and white this is an easy call for me it's an easy call history is not kind to guys his age that are not someone who's an all-time great and the Achilles thing the previous performance

the success it's an easy black and white call. But when you have owners, when you have a coach, when you have other coaches on the staff, when you have players who clearly care deeply about Kirk Cousins, I mean, that's where it becomes a lot more complicated because if you do say goodbye, Kirk, happy trails, hope your Achilles heals, but going gonna be healing somewhere else and then you draft michael pennix and he's not good enough and then you and kirk goes to whoever and plays well then oh no like we look foolish and then the coach is gonna say wow you know i always loved kirk i mean i don't know about you guys i think it was really the general manager who talked

me out of it and not that we would ever see anything like that here before oh wait yeah no that's exactly what happened with zimmer except the opposite so that's where the decision becomes truly fascinating to me uh but we actually have to go to the locker room uh very shortly so you guys want to talk about what you think happens in the game you got a you got a score you got a prediction do you want to try to predict it six to three yeah what what's the over under on this game take the under maybe take the under regardless of what it is i think i was going to be watching this game though for ideas yeah uh i'm i'm really tempted to like dig and and just continue i've sort of been, like, the, I don't know, the good cop here and, like, arguing that it might be better than people think.

And so I'm tempted to take the Vikings in this game. Yeah, actually, no, I'm going to do it. You know what? Let's do it. Let's lean in. I'm going to take the Vikings to win this game, like, 16 to 13 with a defensive touchdown and three field goals. Okay.

I'll go with Atlanta 21 to 17. I think it, I don't have a whole lot of respect for Atlanta's coach and for their ability to deal with, with this, but I just think it's a really, really tough task for a backup quarterback to come in. So I think it will be competitive.

I think it will be close, even though I kind of made fun of you guys earlier for saying that and it's mostly about atlanta and arthur smith whose mustache and no grady jarrett legitimately short of a fact like their best defensive player i i do yes in all seriousness i think the vikings lose this game but it'll be 2016 something like that where i where I think the Vikings touchdown comes from the defense. All right. Well, that was a lot of fun. Or maybe it's a 54-yard Jaren Hall rushing touchdown, and he breaks four tackles on his way to the end zone. No hugs this week from anybody.

No one was in a hugging mood. I thought that maybe someone would want to be consoled over Kirk because they did act like he died. He's fine. I saw it on Instagram. He's okay. He's got a purple cast. Yeah, he does. Yeah.

Just more posturing from Kirk to return. See more at pro football. No, stop it. Stop it. All right. Anyway, love you all. We'll talk again soon after the football game. Good day.