Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - The roundtable thinks the Lions are a tough matchup for the banged-up Vikings

Episode Date: December 22, 2023

Matthew Coller is joined by Andrew Krammer of the Star Tribune and Will Ragatz of Sports Illustrated to preview the Vikings and Lions. They start off talking about how injuries could be a major problem for the Vikings and how the volatility of Nick Mullens makes the offense boom or bust. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here along with Will Raggetts of Sports Illustrated and Andrew Kramer of the Star Tribune. Once again, a Raggetts roundtable. And guys, we usually don't start with the injury report because injury reports are not exciting, but this injury report has a lot of people on it and i feel like coming out of that cincinnati game not only the emotional letdown of losing a game where you outplayed the other team for the vast majority but also you played against a very physical team in a game where the vikings come out beat up and now have to go against a lions team that appears to be on the upswing after hitting a little bit of rocky ground here.

Why don't we start a little bit in reverse with the episode? How in trouble are the Vikings in this matchup? They might be in trouble because you see some DNPs on Wednesday and you're like, all right, maybe they'll get back. And then you see them again on Thursday and it's starting to look like they might be without some key defensive players, which would really be unfortunate against this high-powered Lions offense that just scored 42 against Denver last week. It's Byron Murphy Jr., your top cornerback. It's Harrison Phillips, who's your top interior defensive player. Daniil Hunter was upgraded to limited,

and it seems like he's going to be able to play through an illness. And then there's one more that I'm forgetting right now on defense, I think. Jonathan Bullard's a little banged up as well. He plays a lot of snaps for this team. Harrison Phillips, did you say him? Yeah, Harrison. So it's Phillips and Murphy, I guess, are the two big ones. Offensively, it looks like there might not be Alexander Madison

or Brian O'Neill again. Not as concerned about that. I think everyone listening to this would agree that they want Ty Chandler to be the featured back, even if Madison is able to play. And then I thought David Questenberry was actually like completely fine for a backup right tackle performance. But if it's on the defensive side, obviously they need to have Hunter playing. But even if it's just Phillips and Murphy, those would be two big losses. Yeah, he left out. They might get Jordan Hicks back potentially. I was really shocked to see Jordan Hicks was a full participant in practice,

his first practice since the November 12th emergency leg surgery that he had. And I talked to him today after Thursday's practice, he said he was full go again and he feels great. He said he was even surprised a little bit at how his leg has responded to some of the on-field work. So that's just going to be a matter, I think, of the training staff, whether or not they want to clear him right away after one week, but they might get him back in two weeks. But if they don't have Byron Murphy, I think that's kind of an underrated loss in terms of who's up next. Is it Makai Blackman? Is it Andrew Booth? Either way, those are guys that we've seen in moments get thrown on and taken advantage of. And Jared Goff, Amon Ross, St. Brown, Sam Laporta,

they got a lot of targets that they can take advantage of as well. So I think this is going to be difficult for Brian Flores regardless if they don't have their full allotment on defense, even being at home against this Lions team. Shout out to the sheer insanity of NFLfl players and jordan hicks coming back i mean if i was in an ambulance in the worst pain of my life and they told me you know what good thing we caught this or we would have had to hack it off i'd be like you know maybe i'll sell some insurance uh but instead jordan hicks is like all right back to work boys He showed us the scar the other day and it's like 12 inches long. And this guy's just going to wander back out there and play.

That is helpful for them. They've survived that with Ivan Pace in there and that gives them a little more versatility with their personnel. But Harrison Phillips, in my mind, has been the most sort of under the radar, low key, massively important player to this team. They've been great against the run all season long, and he's the guy in the center. At the beginning of the year, we were kind of going, they don't really have a true nose tackle here. And also, usually defensive tackles that are run stuffers do not play the type of workload he has. I think he's either already past his career high, or he's definitely going to go past his career

high. Plus, there's really no answers behind him. We're talking Sheldon Day. We're talking Jaqueline Roy. That one, I think, could be really difficult for a team that we know can run the football very effectively. This is an interior that already lost to D. Lowry, for however much that matters. And then they lost James Lynch way back in camp. They've lost depth in that spot. Yeah, I think if you could choose one player between Harrison Phillips and Jordan Hicks to play,

as great of a season as Jordan Hicks is having, you would pick Harrison Phillips because of the importance that he has to the rest of the defense and because of what the drop-off is there with the way that Ivan Pace Jr. has played over these last four games without Jordan Hicks. Yeah, I mean, if Phillips doesn't go, it's Sheldon Day, Jonathan Bullard. I think you probably have to play a lot of Kyrus Tonga just to have that bigger body, interior kind of nose guy who can theoretically eat up some of the blocks that Harrison Phillips does. But that would be a huge loss because of what he means to the second level

and to the rest of the defense against the run. And this is a Lions team that has two really good productive running backs in David Montgomery and Jameer Gibbs. So hopefully maybe Harrison Phillips can get in a limited session on Friday and have a chance to go into the weekend with a questionable tag at least. But that would be a big loss. It would be good to get Jordan Hicks back, though, because then you can use both of those guys.

And we've seen Troy Dye getting like 25, 30 snaps the last couple weeks. So they would find a way to incorporate both Hicks and pace into the game yeah related to harrison phillips um potentially being out for the vikings the lions have frank ragnow and they got him back last week he missed one week somehow after having knee surgery he had his knee scoped uh missed that bears game that the lions lost they look like they really missed him he's really good obviously at center for them and when brian flores is throwing all the blitz schemes at them, having their center there is huge. So the Lions get a key guy back and the Vikings might be down a guy. And you talked about the secondary. Byron Murphy is an interesting one to get perspectives on

because I think that he's been okay, serviceable, but maybe not what we expected. I also don't think he's playing the role that we expected. I did not come into this year going, oh, it's going to be the avant-garde defense where they just play Picasso out there, and there's things moving around and moving parts. I thought it would be more traditional, and he would be the nickel corner, which I think is really his true fit in the NFL, but they have asked him to be much more of an outside corner play in a lot of zones and then come downhill and be a tackler, which he has missed a good number of tackles and made some as well. I haven't looked at it like it has been a disaster signing or terrible or anything like that. I think the

PFF grades are probably more harsh on them than what I've felt like watching him at the same time going from him to Mackay Blackman may not be like a huge drop off. I don't know. That's, that's how I feel about it. Like Blackman by the numbers has had a better season, but of course he's played fewer snaps, less responsibility. Murphy is a veteran out there. He's asked to do a lot. I just feel like if that position specifically right now is okay, if you lose one person and then you have to go to Andrew Booth Jr.,

well, then you've got more serious problems. Yeah, it would concern me a little bit for sure if they don't have Byron Murphy, just because you mentioned it, the veteran thing. I think he's tackled really well against the screens this year he's made a few tackles for loss and just kind of been been solid like you he hasn't when they signed him you're like oh this 25 year old guy um second round pick had some moments in in Arizona maybe just getting away from that franchise he could really kind of ascend and that hasn't happened

he hasn't played at some kind of Pro Bowl level. But, I mean, you compare him to, like, Dean Lowery and Marcus Davenport, the other free-hijin signings, and he's clearly been the best one. But, yeah, it's kind of just been, all right, he's been solid. He's been their best corner, I think. Caleb Evans, I think, maybe has more potential in 2024, 2025. But this year, I think Byron Murphy has been their best corner. And so they'll miss the versatility.

They'll miss the experience. And Makai Blackman is another one where he's showed signs of playing really well. He's had some games where PFF has graded him really highly and he's been sticky. And then there's just been times where his size becomes an issue. And it happened. Well, he just stopped playing on that T. Higgins touchdown with less than a minute left against the Bengals. And he got outleapt by Cortland Sutton for the game winning touchdown. And so there's there's been some things like that where you can see, you know, he's a rookie.

He's learning. He's he's growing. And yeah, if if he's thrust into a big role here, it's a tough task against Amon Ross, St. Brown and Josh Reynolds and and this Lions offense. Yeah, it's funny how this all happened, because the best laid plans of the Vikings, they wanted Murphy to be the slot corner. I remember talking to Durante Jones back in OTAs about how this guy was brought in to be the kind of veteran mind in the middle of the defense with Jordan Hicks to kind of help orchestrate and direct all the traffic and the adjustments and the checks they expected under Flores. And then all of a sudden they get into the practices and they go, and this is me reading

between the lines, but clearly they are looking at their evaluations and thinking, we just don't have the corners to play this and to move Byron inside. Cause that means two different guys or a different guy other than Byron has to play on the outside. And then Metellus over this year has just played everybody else off the field. He continues to ball out and has been in that slot position and done it so well shifting between slot nickel linebacker, all those different responsibilities. Um, they've left them no choice, but to just say, all right, Byron, you're just going to be an outside corner, even though we paid you to be that kind of versatile guy. And, and frankly, it's just because of the way the safeties have played. Yeah. I assume that that was the reason that Byron Murphy would have been the nickel corner had Josh Metellus not just been so darn effective. And when he was showing up

every day in training camp, Flores did the right thing and adjusted, which I think has become his signature is like working with all the pieces and so forth. But sometimes that's going to mean somebody else has to play in their B position where Byron Murphy is probably a C plus corner on the outside and maybe a B plus on the inside, but a C plus on the outside is still reasonable. If you end up with worse than that, then you're going to be in a lot of trouble. There's also another part of this too. You mentioned Dean Lowry and Marcus Davenport, and I don't want to get too big picture yet because we'll get there, but these are the types of things that happen with these signings, like mid-level signings. How many of them have worked out for the Vikings just over the years since they signed Kirk

Cousins? Because that's all they could really afford. But like the Michael Pierce, even Sheldon Richardson was like pretty good in 2018, but I don't think he was a massive game changer. They couldn't keep him around for the whole, you know, more than one season, that kind of thing. Harrison Phillips is the one that's worked, I guess.

Yeah. Yeah. I'd say Dalvin Tomlinson and Patrick Peterson. Dalvin, they paid for both. Dalvin was more than mid-level. Yeah. Patrick Peterson,

sort of also more than mid-level. Those two worked out. Yeah. Patrick Peterson worked out. He's, that's a little different too, because it's Patrick Peterson. like they just kind of uh ended up in a good spot with that but i don't think of patrick peterson necessarily as a mid-level player uh people just thought maybe he was washed so anyway that's i guess hicks we should mention yeah yeah hicks has been good

for them i thought last year kind of ish but you know now in a better role so it's very hit or miss like sometimes it works sometimes it's a total role so it's very hit or miss like sometimes it works sometimes it's a total wreck and that's the game that you play with those types of signings uh how good do you fellas feel like the detroit lions are use use some sort of made-up metric to tell me how good you think the detroit lions are oh man a made made up metric. I don't know. I'll try to think about a metric. I just think they are. Oh yeah. They're like out of a potential 10 kneecaps you could bite. How many kneecaps are the Detroit Lions biting as a football team? I think like eight. I think they're biting like, like four out of every five kneecaps. I think they're biting like four out of every five kneecaps. I think they are a very good football team that I don't know has the consistency

or the defense to beat a San Francisco or a Dallas or maybe even a Philly. I think I would probably rank them fourth, even though I think Philly's lost three in a row or something. I would still have more confidence in the Eagles over the Lions in January. It's a good team. It's an explosive offense. Jared Goff is really kind of humming in that Ben Johnson system. They've got the weapons. I mean, we clowned. I personally clowned their draft when it happened because I'm like, you were on this podcast. I was on this podcast reacting live. And I'm like, you just

took Jameer Gibbs 12th and Jack Campbell 18th and Sam Laporta and all these and and it just it has worked out and you can't kind of crown it a total success after one year but Jameer Gibbs after kind of a slow start where they were getting him up to speed in the offense or whatever has looked really good really explosive he is going to be a huge uh challenge for this Vikings defense Sam Laporta has like nine or ten touchdown um receptions had three against the broncos he's been really really good like they got rid of got rid of tj hockinson and just kind of filled in immediately with sam laporta i don't know too much about jack campbell i think he's having a fine season brian branch the safety they took in the second round he's a guy who

you'll hear about when you talk to v offensive coaches. Like he's having a really good year as that versatile kind of, it's not, not a full Josh Metellus role, but he can play deep and he can line up in the box and come off the edge and do all those different things. So are you suggesting that the draft grades right after the draft may not have been right? Cause I, I just can't take that if that would be the truth. And I still think they're like at the time there was some reason to question the value of just like the positional value of going running back linebacker tight end but to their credit it's worked out and if if they make a deep run in the playoffs then yeah i mean nobody's going to be talking about that anymore well if sam laporte is going to be the next george

kittle or with a production like it you know i know he's a different player but that makes that value worth it certainly and i think you could still question, even if Jameer Gibbs plays MVP level, the value of taking that at that spot. So it's fair questioning, but these guys have just balled out. And they've got the right system, and they've got the right supporting cast that was already in place. Since Brad Holmes got hired in 2021, they've drafted Pene Sewell. They've drafted Aiden Hutchinson.

They've drafted all the guys you just mentioned this year. Amon Ross St. Brown was a fourth-round pick in his first draft in Detroit. This is going to be a team that's going to be a headache for not only the Vikings, but the Packers, the Bears, for years to come. And the only question mark is, is Jerry Goff going to be the guy that they think can lead them to the Super Bowl? Or are they going to end up resetting at that position and taking a bigger swing at it? It's a similar spot as the Vikings. The Vikings look like a team and a roster that is one year behind in the rebuild because obviously

the Vikings hit the reset button a year later than Detroit. So that's where the Vikings are at right now when we talk about how good Detroit is I think that roster is more talented I think they've got the coaching right now um it's just a matter of in this matchup um can the Vikings play well enough and a lot of these key spots we'll talk about you got a made up metric I made a metric no I don't he came up with the one that I used oh the kneecaps yeah you came up with the kneecap yeah all right well then you got to think of one. I was going to go with out of 64 ounces of iced coffee that apparently Dan Campbell pounds each day. I think they're like 52 ounces out of 64 because that defense is still extremely weak. I like that. And more than eight out of 10. I can't do math. I don't know. Who cares? And they they uh, they just don't have anyone to pressure the quarterback outside of Aiden Hutchinson. And he got off to such a blazing start that it's funny how this works in my mind. He was having an amazing year. And I, and then I looked it up and I was like, oh, well, you know, it's kind of been okay for Aiden Hutchinson. I think he's going to be a

star long-term, but I'm guessing that there's been so much attention on him because you're saying, who else? And that they put a lot of investment into their secondary, but not as much into their pass rush. And it has cost them. And they did draft a linebacker instead of pass rush, which may have been a mistake for them. As far as the draft goes at Jameer Gibbs, I remember what I said right after they drafted and you said, oh my gosh, I can't believe they drafted a running back. And I couldn't either. And I still would say it's not a good draft pick. But the thing that I said was, you're going to have to play him.

Like, and if he's really good at football, that could be a problem. It's sort of like drafting Delvin Cook maybe wasn't the best usage, but Delvin Cook ripped people apart. So if the guy turns out to be great, he could be a problem in those couple of matchups. And he, in the last say six weeks has really turned out to be great for them. And it is a problem. And when you put the two things together that we've been talking about, Jameer Gibbs, their offensive line, Harrison Phillips, potentially out like there's a, there is still a weak link on this team if the opponent can run and

then throw underneath that this team and this defense can be beaten pretty badly at times when that happens. And I thought we even saw some of that last week, like not that they ran super effective, but mostly like the underneath passing game. But I think if you can run effectively against this defense, it causes huge, huge problems. And I believe that Detroit will be able to. Yeah, there are some things when you just look at a matchup basis of kind of units against units and players against players that don't maybe line up super well for the Vikings this week. We can, there's a whole conversation we could have about maybe how worried we are about the Vikings defense after that fourth quarter in OT in Cincinnati. But sticking with kind of the Lions big picture, there really are

some parallels between the Lions and the Vikings right now that you can see where there's a lot of roster talent, offense, defense. I think the Lions have more young talent that is on the advantageous kind of rookie contracts that's coming up and allows you to sort of build more around the Vikings have maybe some more veterans in, in those spots, but they have some young talent too. And then the quarterback position, you two similar guys in,

in Kirk cousins and Jared golf that you kind of talk about as, are they going to be the guy or do you need to reset? It's, it's different because Kirk cousins are going to be a free agent. Jared golf, I believe is under a contract for through next year, through next year next year. OK, so one more year. So there's similarities. I think an advantage the Vikings theoretically have is both of these teams are led by really good offensive minds. The Vikings is their head coach. The Lions isn't their head coach and looks like

maybe number one on the list of guys who might be a head coach next year. And there's always six or seven or eight openings or I guess head coach next year. And there's always six or seven or eight openings, or I guess sometimes four or five, but there's always a handful of opening. I think there's already three right now and there will be more to come after the season. So if they lose Ben Johnson, then it becomes how much of their success was this one guy and his ability to cook up these schemes and get these playmakers open and help Jared Goff thrive, and how replaceable is that with somebody they bring in from outside or maybe they promote the quarterback coach or whatever it might be?

And is Dan Campbell, is he the Mike Tomlin-level coach where you can survive maybe some changes on offense and just have that leadership and that defense and everything? Because we went through this for such a long time where Mike Zimmer was a really great defensive mind, good head coach for a long time, but they just rotated through offensive coordinator, offensive coordinator, offensive coordinator.

And once you get into that sort of cycle where you're getting Pat Shermer hired as a head coach and Kevin Stefanski hired as a head coach and all these different things happening. Firing a few. They fired a few. There was one resigned. Clayton didn't fire him. Yeah. It just became this cycle. all these different things happening. They fired a few. There was one, one resigned.

Yeah. It just became this, this cycle. So that's what the lions, I think need to answer for me to be like, all right, this is going to be a powerhouse for the next five to six years. Folks. It's the holiday season again,

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He was the most Blitz quarterback in the NFL last year. Coordinators know this. They're going to keep sending the house after him, and we know Brian Flores loves to Blitz. And I think the difference, though, is that the Vikings don't have a lot of talent up front. We're not going to see Marcus Davenport anytime soon. And so the difference between what the Bears and the Packers were able

to do, they beat the Lions recently. I remember watching the Thanksgiving Day game where Goff had three fumbles in that game. They really got after him. The Bears also got after him and blitzed him on third down and fourth down quite a bit. The difference is they've got Montez Sweat, Yannick Ngakwe, the Packers have Rashawn Garyary preston smith they've got more talent kenny clark as well um that can jump on that lions offensive line the vikings are going to need to find ways to individually beat those guys on the offense that are just frankly better than a lot of their pass rushers and a lot of their defenders and that's my question mark because if you can pressure golf you can beat him and you can fluster him you can get him off his spot and i think

that's what vikings coaches who spend all week talking up golf are not saying is that if we can fluster this guy, he's obviously beatable. The DJ want him slander. They're not playing the bear as well. I'm going to say something about Jared Goff. Maybe people won't love it. I think Jared Goff is a great quarterback. I don't think he's a good quarterback. I don't think he's just okay. I don't think he's a middling type of whatever quarterback. I think he's a great quarterback. And here's why this is the third time. If it holds where he stands and it may not, they're playing the Vikings twice, but if it, if it holds where he stands for their offense, that it will be the, I believe fourth time that they have a top five offense. A team has a top five offense with Jared Goff as their quarterback twice in Los Angeles.

One of the times they went to the super bowl and then twice with the Detroit lions. And at some point you can't just go, Oh, well it's the system. Oh, it's just the weapons. It's just McVay. It's just Ben Johnson. I want to, you can, can, but I don't think that's quite right. I think that we can still call a quarterback great, even if he has a kryptonite. That doesn't have to be McVay, or not McVay, Mahomes. It doesn't have to be Mahomes in order to say that a quarterback is great. He has ripped this team apart at times.

He did it last year at Ford Field. He did it in 2018 in one of the best quarterback games I have ever seen in my entire life. No qualifiers against that. It gets a really good defense from Mike Zimmer in 2018, and he throttled them that night. He throws an incredible football, and it kind of reminds me a little bit of Eli Manning where it, because it's not perfect because he doesn't move, he doesn't run. He's not the greatest quarterback in the league. It was like, well, Eli's not Peyton. Well, that's true. But I think that Jared Goff is good enough. I don't know that the whole team is good enough for Detroit, especially on their defense, but he is good enough to take a team to the Superbowl. And when you're going to play him two of the last three games, like, yeah, I think you could get to him. I think you can confuse him. I think his lack of mobility is problematic, but I look at him as a quarterback that I would be totally fine with as my franchise quarterback year after year. And I think that this year has shown it. Is he going to have some bad games? Of course he is. Again, it's not my homes. It's not like it's never going to be the case, but to me, his ability to throw the football accurately into the right places

makes him super dangerous when you have the playmakers they have. He strikes me as a really like more athletically gifted Kirk, right? Like if Kirk were bigger, had a bigger arm, like all those things, things he just he seems like a very similar player yeah he has played well enough this year I think kind of beyond a doubt to solidify himself as the guy more than just next year for for a few more years and it's one of those things where when you're picking they're going to be picking towards the back end of the first round like you're not going to have an obvious way to replace him anyways and and i i understood the taking a shot on hendon hooker in the third round who was really good before his acl injury he's very old but you know there's a there's a chance that maybe he is a solid backup and could be an option a few years down the line before retirement age yeah before he before he

retires he get a few years in but yeah i think I think it's an oversimplification to kind of have the Brock Purdy debate with Jared Goff, where it's Sean McVay and Ben Johnson. And you have to give the player, in the case of both Goff and Purdy, you have to give the player a lot of credit for making the throws and making the decisions. And both of those guys can actually create outside of structure a little bit more than Kirk Cousins can, although we saw a tiny bit of that from Kirk earlier this season. But yeah, I think Goff has proven that he is good enough. I don't think he's ever going to be in that elite tier, but there's a reason why it's the elite tier. There are only so many of those guys.

You don't have to have one to get to the Super Bowl. It makes it a lot easier. But if you build the team around them, and I think they've done a really good job of that. Brad Holmes kind of just drafting well, filling in pieces with blue chip talent on both sides of the ball. Like if the Detroit Lions got to the Super Bowl this year, I wouldn't be stunned. I would be surprised. But that offense is good enough that I think they could beat just about anyone if they caught San Francisco on an off night. Yeah, I think Wes Phillips said about Goff, he was one of the coaches in LA with Goff at the time when him and O'Connell were over there. He had said that, like Cousins, Goff is one of those

guys that if everything is set up right for him, he will get it for you 100% of the time, 10 out of 10. He will hit everything accurately and rhythm on time if you can scheme it up and set it up right. And he said that's really hard to find. There's not a lot of quarterbacks in this league who are that reliable and consistent. So then you combine that with all the athletic talent we're talking about. I think, yeah, sure, there's an argument that he's great. It's just, yeah, what is your definition of great?

And if it doesn't have to be Mahomes, then no, it doesn't have to be. Well, Mahomes is in a tier all by himself. Because I think with that setup in kansas city this year most quarterbacks who are even considered very good are not winning many football games like you can't just have your receivers drop the ball all the time and also not know the routes half the time it seems like travis kelsey's been banged up hasn't had as good of a year maybe distracted i don't know um but, like you can't usually have it that poor in their offensive line and their tackles aren't good either. Like that. Normally that's not something that you could still be at the top

of your division that says everything about the homes. And when Jared Goff's team was tanking, they lost a lot of games. So it's not like he's impenetrable to anything, but at his best, he is as good as any quarterback in the league. And here's the thing, like Kirk Cousins has never led a top five offense. This guy's done it four times and they've both had great setups, great coaching, similar systems, all those things. I think his true like superpower is that arm talent where it's not just tight windows throws. It's like the velocity, like the ball just gets there. Right? So anyway, I I'm more impressed with Jared Goff. I think than most people, I think this could be a problem for the Vikings defense in this game, but we have

not talked about the offensive side and the conflict of last week. The conflict of last week is wow. Justin Jefferson, everybody remember that with like three or four catches. And Jordan Addison, I don't even know if it was supposed to go to him and he caught a touchdown. The weapons in this game, Ty Chandler, TJ Hawkinson, the weapons had a phenomenal game and they couldn't get six inches on an overtime tush push and it kind of ruined all of that. But if they are able to repeat that again, which will not be easy, but if they can, then this game can be very interesting,

I think, between these two teams. I think it absolutely can. I think this has the makings of a potential shootout, which we haven't seen a ton of this year. I mean, last week was fairly high scoring, went to overtime, but this could be like a 34-30 type of game if the Vikings can hang just because this Lions defense has some difference makers, but overall you can score against them. And I think I'm just watching the game back, the offensive tape, like, yes, Nick Mullins had the two really bad interceptions and the two Jordan Addison touchdowns were maybe also bad decisions, but just forget about those four plays. And you watch the other 30 throws that he had and it was consistent enough.

I thought the, there's another pick six mixed in there, but that's true. That was all right. Five plays aside from all those interceptions and the dropped interceptions and the one that got turned over. And I know you can't, you can't forget about that and you shouldn't because those are the most impactful plays of the game in both direction.

I think just on a consistent down to down basis, Nick Mullins was dropping back with timing, no hitches in rhythm, delivering a perfect throw to Jordan Addison or Justin Jefferson on an outbreaking route near the sideline. And he was delivering the ball on a dig or a crosser and putting in a good spot. And he was getting TJ Hawkinson opportunities who TJ Hawkinson made, made him look good on a couple of those kind of more difficult catches. And it was just, it was something that had been missing the last few weeks with Dobbs where he can execute the offense. He didn't look lost out there.

He looked like he knew what he was doing, where he wanted to go with the football. He read the defense. So I think it was a no brainer to give him another start. I know there's, there's fans who want to see Jaron Hall and want to let's see what we have in him. Like this team is still in the sixth seed right now. They want to win games. They clearly think Mullens gives them the best chance to do that. And I think he has a chance this week to put up more yards with how good those top three targets are. I mean, that's, that's, you can put that up against

almost anybody in the league, Jefferson, Addison, Hawkinson, and then keep feeding Ty Chandler. I just, his burst watching the tape back was so, so obvious and making some guys miss at the point of attack and being able to go for eight, nine yards consistently. Yeah. I think the Bengals defense is really bad. I think we saw that. I think that's why Nick Mullins was able to at least find so many openings. They converted a third and 15 with like a six yard hook to Hawkinson. Like, how does that happen like i just i think cincinnati was really bad in that game i think that helped the vikings obviously that's why chandler's first start goes for the most rushing yardage ever under o'connell which is incredible what you predicted by the way you said 120 he had like 160 i was scoffed that and yet it was did I say? I said 120, and it was even more than that.

157, I think. Yeah, so my prediction, though, is that I would take the under. I think this is going to be lower scoring than people think because of Flores' history against Goff. And then on the opposite side, I think Mullens is going to come back to earth a little bit. And not to say that he was playing out of his mind. It wasn't that great,

but it was against a pretty bad defense that he threw for 300 yards against and a start that he hadn't made. When was his last start? 2021? 2021 Browns, yeah. So I just think that it's going to look a little tougher against Detroit. I know Detroit's defense is not world beaters. I know they've been pretty vulnerable at times, but I think they're better than Cincinnati. I think both in personnel, if they had McNeil, one of their interior guys, that's really good. That would help, but I think he's hurt and out. So that's going to help the Vikings and maybe this run game keep going. It's going to be a fascinating matchup because we're going to keep talking about these two teams,

not only in a couple weeks, but I think for years to come. So the Nick Mullins thing is like one of those ink blots that you look at and what's your interpretation like because there's a different interpretation that looks at how inaccurate some of those passes were where tj hawkins is like put it right here right in front of my face mask and then the throw goes way outside of his shoulder pads and he reaches out and he grabs it and it's like completed pass moving on and there but at least it was completed right it was the right spot and so it's very funny to watch because you're like oh the timing is good it's clearly the right spot and justin jefferson talked about it today with us where he was like he knows

it just the way that kirk knows it but he cannot throw the football farther than like 14 yards. And unless you want it to look pretty ugly. And he also has the accuracy issue, which could result in more interceptions. And there was like another pick six or two or interception that was kind of missed. And I also couldn't figure out what happened on the Jefferson interception toward the red zone, where there was a, it was like middle of the field closed and jefferson's like well he's not throwing it here at this time and he just throws it anyway so there's some decisions there's i think nick mullins is a little more baller mentality than people expected he's a gunslinger but there's a reason why he threw all those interceptions like southern miss gunslinger

i think i think nick mullins believes in nick mullins and he's going to throw that ball when he's supposed to throw it, which is there's high variance to that. That's a word that we've used a lot. There was high variance with Dobbs. There's high variance with Tommy DeVito. There's high variance with every backup quarterback, and which side of that, I have no idea. But I think there's less variance in Ty Chandler,

and there were actually times, plays, where it was two runs in a row. And I nearly fell out of the press box in Cincinnati when I saw, and I thought, there you go run twice in a row with this guy. And the one thing I was really impressed with Ty Chandler was there were plays where a guy missed the block and he made it right. And he just dodged that guy. He is very, very natural in what he does. So I think you have to really like kind of hunker it down a little bit and stay with that run, even if it's not perfect. But I also know that that's not Kevin O'Connell's nature.

Yeah, I thought, I mean, it's not a perfect comparison by any means, but I thought he looked like a little bit like kind of prime Delvin Cook with the way he was able to make some things right, make guys miss immediately, and get those consistent chunks and the burst to get a couple different 25, 30-yarders in there. I think you have to lean on Ty Chandler in this game, feature the run early and often, which they were able to do last week early against the Bengals. It makes it so much easier for Kevin O'Connell.

Especially if you can get eight yards like they were on a bunch of first down carries, but even if you can get five or six and you're in second and four, second and five, and just all the things that that does to your playbook, there was just too many times earlier this season. And it wasn't always Alexander Madison's fault because the run blocking wasn't great at times, but it was a one yard run on first down and then it's second and nine.

And then you're getting pressure and it just, it makes things really hard when you're able to stay on schedule ahead of schedule move the sticks consistently and then try to generate some explosives with your your Justin Jefferson Jordan Addison's like I just I think they should they should be able to move the ball in this game Nick Mullins I kind of thought like just earlier this season when I'm thinking about all the quarterbacks when Kirk goes down I'm like all Nick Mullins, maybe he's like the low variance option. Like jobs will be a rollercoaster. Jaron Hall.

We have no idea. Mullins. You kind of know. No Mullins is just a different Dobbs. Basically like that was, he's just going to sling it. He's going to run around. There was one play where he just jumped up and down in the pocket and

didn't, and didn't even throw it. And I was like, all right, what are you doing? So he's, I mean, he's fun.

He's aggressive. He definitely is, is that gunslinger like, like other Southern Miss quarterbacks. And he's just gonna, he's gonna be aggressive and it's, it's gonna be, it's gonna lead to some turnover possible plays and it might lead to some more wild touchdowns. So we'll see. Folks, I hope you've enjoyed listening to us talk about prize picks this year, but if you've missed it, here's how it works. You go to prizepicks.com, and it is simple.

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Go there. Use the code purple for the first deposit match up to $100. One of the reasons I like PrizePix, it is very simple to use. You'd see how we do it on the show real quick and easy. And then we talk about our picks and also not expensive either. You can turn $10 into 250 by nailing just a couple of picks. So go to prizepicks.com slash purple, the code purple, daily fantasy sports made easy. You know, I didn't think far because I was watching molly i didn't either i didn't have that

i was just making the the gunslinger comparison we're joking yeah but i think this guy was just firing darts and the one as you mentioned um wasn't even targeted to addison the touchdown to addison was just ridiculous i think the second one whatever it was um in the end zone there were it it just kind of went through multiple bangles it was, um, in the end zone there were, it just kind of went through multiple bangles. It seemed like, um, I think he was thrown to Addison on that. Was he, was he okay. I don't know. I don't know. There was a lot of traffic in the area. Um, I think the Madison injury though, we didn't see Madison practice today either on Thursday. That's going to give them a nice excuse to start Ty Chandler again, because they seem reticent to

want to start Chandler when both are available. And I just don't understand it. I don't understand it either. I mean, he graded really well from a pass blocking perspective. I couldn't find a negative rep for pass blocking. There was one time where he went the wrong way on a handoff. Okay. I mean, if I, if I'm going to get 150 yards out of the guy and there's one misstep, I don't know. I guess that's fine with me uh the gap is so significant between the running ability i just i don't know what else you want and they've they've been kind of defending it a little bit this week and talking about the development word and like oh he wasn't this player back in week three and it is hard to know how true that is because we

aren't there watching practice behind the scenes and things like that. But it makes me roll my eyes a little bit because how much better has he really gotten with coaching on a Thursday over the course of this season? I think you could have played him a lot more earlier this season, from the start of the season perhaps even, and lived with some of the trial and error mistakes the learning moments in pass protection or whatever and and i still think it would have been more worth it because alexander madison has averaged 3.7 yards per carry and fumbled like three times oh yeah maybe if kirk cousins wasn't credited with like the most fumbles among quarterbacks to the first six weeks they would have got to him sooner honestly maybe it had to do with the fact that

their offense was on such a razor thin margin and coughing the ball up at such a rate, but Madison was also doing the coughing. And so I think this has taken way too long as you guys are talking about and Chandler, just that speed and quickness, like this run blocking is not good, right? It's not consistently good. And when you've got speed and quickness, it makes up for a lot of it. There's a play in the game. When I was watching the tape back where they're supposed to double team a guy, but instead they triple team a guy and they leave somebody wide open. It's on a pitch just like totally unblocked. It meant nothing to Ty Chandler. It was just like, whoop. And then he was, he was gone. That guy is absolutely taking down Alexander Madison for a three yard gain and not a nine-yard gain my guess is that there's

truth to all rumors about chandler not knowing everything about the offense yeah i'm not dismissing that in entirely but if i also as a coach had a moment where i was like oh whoops i would also be like well i wasn't ready uh you guys don't understand you're not at practice you didn't see it he really wasn't ready i mean right i mean wouldn't you you wouldn't be like, well, I wasn't ready. You guys don't understand. You're not at practice. You didn't see it. He really wasn't ready. Right. I mean, when you look at Miami and how they use four, three runners, why do you have two, four, three runners that you couldn't figure out a way a couple of times a game to get the football? I know it's all built around Justin Jefferson, but Kenny Wong was just been chilling for two years watching kicks fly over his head. That's a lot of F in speed to watching kicks fly over his head that's a lot of effing speed to watch kicks fly over your head right like there's got to be something that that man can do with the

football in his hands and the same thing with you know ty chandler that we all thought that like there's got to be something he's you know playing three plays a game or whatever and uh we figure that out so i think it's both a reasonable explanation and also a little bit of a no we had it right totally right and you guys are wrong you are one of the the last few residents on kane wongu island as an as a potential offensive player i like i don't disagree just get them the ball like there's i think there's a lot of talented teams that find ways to set up like think of cordero back in the day we're like just make it a punt return, like atmosphere for him, throw a little screen, bubble screen, whatever, just set it up.

And with Kanae, it would just be a gap scheme run where you're telling him this is the hole. Just hit it, just run really fast. And this is what we need. And they're not a good gap scheme running team. They don't always block them well. Maybe they don't have confidence in that. And they clearly are reticent to put out a guy in Chandler who's ready for a three three-down roll that he showed us uh and they won't even put out yeah wongwoo for you

know a couple gadget plays there were what game was it new orleans there was a pitch to the edge for kenny wong got the ball he got like eight yards because he hit the edge and i think the new orleans players like what yeah and then they never did it again. So I'm asking for like two plays a game. Yeah. But how about, you know, a little reverse, whatever. Take whatever trick play you've put in out and put the give the ball to Kenny Wong in. I guarantee you this will work. Let's talk about because we can talk about the big picture on these teams when they play in two weeks.

And we'll know better if the Vikings are in the playoffs or not and where our discussion is going to live. But for this particular game, how are we sizing it up? Do you think that the Vikings will win or will they lose? I am not going to pick a Vikings win because I don't think they're the better team. I think they easily could win. I think every single game, no matter who it is against, is a one score game. So it'll come down to those one or two plays. Although if there was a week where the dam was finally going to break and they're going to lose by like 17, I don't think that's going to happen because it never happens, but it could happen this week against the Lions with just some of the personnel and schematic advantages that they have.

If Mullins throws a couple picks early and you fall behind and that team starts to really lean on you with David Montgomery, Jameer Gibbs, if you're without Harrison Phillips, Byron Murphy, I could see it maybe getting out of hand. But at the same time, the Vikings have so much skill, position, talent, and I'm not ready to write off Brian Flores' defense at all just because they had a bad fourth quarter in OT. I do think it'll be close, but I'm probably going to pick the lions. I would say to Vikings fans, like just big picture,

go into this one, like with reasonably low expectations. And if they win it, that'll be really fun for you. But they're kind of playing with house money at this point in the season without Kirk cousins on their fourth starting quarterback. Like, I don't think this is a team that's really going to be capable of making a deep

run in the playoffs. If they get there, that'll be fun. We'll talk about it. We'll analyze it. But if they don't get there, it's just kind of what we expected when Kirk Cousins got hurt. So go into this with low expectations and maybe they'll pleasantly surprise you on Christmas Eve.

Yeah, I think logically I see the matchup we all talk about, right, in terms of the more talented Detroit offense. And I just see them leaning on this Vikings defense in the second half, the fourth quarter. Maybe it's a struggle to run the ball early for them, but then they break it open in the second half. That's logically how I see it happening, but it would be so NFL for the Vikings to jump out to a big lead, San Francisco style, like they did in the Monday night win against the Niners, jump out to a lead and then San Francisco style, like they did in the Monday night win against the Niners, jump out to a lead and then hold on to it against a quarterback in golf who has to try to throw his way back into it.

That would be the kind of script I could see the Vikings following to a win. It would just be totally NFL for the other team to just kind of flip. Is that what you're picking on? No, I'm not. Because, again, logically I'm horrible at picking these things. I think what's going to happen is Detroit is going to be the more talented team. They're going to not make the critical mistakes that cost them games against Chicago and Green Bay in terms of the turnovers.

I think a Vikings team starting their fourth quarterback is more prone to those mistakes. So no, I think the Vikings are going to lose, but that's what makes it fun. Who knows? I've never felt so lost picking games as I have this year. Every week it's like, well, I have no idea. Uh, but you know, we just make a pick because we do and it's fun to do. But I mean, I, I would also go with the lions here and I'm a leaning a little more toward where will seems to be at, which is that the lions might win by 10 or more points because as the Vikings get injured and the Lions get healthier, that gap grows of the talent between the two sides. And with Mullins, he just

gave me so many reasons not to trust him. I mean, they were executing the offense, moving it up and down the field, but the turnovers, the interceptions, the also attempted turnovers by him, I think were pretty concerning. And it took a lot of great catches to make that thing go. And it took a lot of great runs by Ty Chandler to make that thing go. I'm not sure. And they got to 24 points, which is not special. It's like an average amount, slightly above average amount in the NFL.

And they had a great day other than some QB sneaks. So we've all picked the lines. Congratulations to the Vikings on their eighth win of the season. What a huge win it's going to be for the Vikings since we all just did this. Yeah, that was all setting up to say, would I be even the slightest bit surprised if Jared Goff had one of those days against Flores' defense where he looks kind of flustered and confused and throws the ball into the dirt a bunch of times and they lose.

No, I wouldn't be surprised at all if that happens. So, uh, it will be really something. And if they win, then all the air that went out of the balloon last week, we'll go right back in it this week, uh, for the fan base. So we'll see what happens, but of course we will be there at us banks stadium to cover it. And we will, will you know we only got a couple more round tables left so these have been fun uh thanks everybody for watching slash listening and we will catch y'all later