Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - The sample size of good play from Sam Darnold is growing

Episode Date: November 6, 2024

Matthew Coller and Mike Schopp talk about the Vikings getting consistent play out of Sam Darnold and discuss the lost Jaguars, confusing trade deadline silence and more Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. This is the Purple Insider Fantasy Show with me, Matthew Collar, and Mike Shope, WGR 550, and the Deep End Fantasy Football Podcast. And this is presented, as always, by our friends at Underdog Fantasy, the easiest place to play fantasy sports, also the fastest growing fantasy app in the industry, and use that promo code PURPLE to sign up to get your special pick and first-time deposit offer up to $1,000 in bonus cash. Must be 18 or older.

Terms apply. Concerned with your play? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit ncpgambling.org. Mike? I'm concerned with my play, but I'm not calling that number because these pickups again, continue to allude me. I went with Tyler Conklin. I'm trying to serve your audience and just sort of, you know, buddy up to them. So I throw Conklin in, uh, that was the Rams game, I guess two weeks ago, but that was my one miss in that one. And then last week,

I think was the same thing. So it, uh, it continues. Well, I had the same trouble for last week. I thought, I don't know why I thought Bijan Robinson would not have 1000 yards against the Dallas Cowboys, but I had a similar type of thing. I had Kirk getting a bunch of yards. I thought he would be passing. I was expecting a Cowboys and Falcons back and forth and Bijan Robinson wouldn't be running the ball as much. They'd be throwing and throwing and throwing, and instead the Cowboys just didn't show up offensively, and that kind of cost me in the pickups. But I did want to start with Sam Darnold,

because right before the season, we said when J.J. McCarthy went down, Sam Darnold named the starter. You know what? If you got a chance in fantasy to. McCarthy went down Sam Darnold named the starter you know what if you got a chance in fantasy to take a shot at Sam Darnold there's a couple things we know that Kevin O'Connell's gonna throw the ball and that the ball is getting thrown to Justin Jefferson which could result in some pretty good numbers from Sam Darnold Sam Darnold is a top five quarterback in quarterback rating he's got 17 touchdowns and it looks like they're going to throw with him even more now that they have TJ Hawkinson back. I think if you were one of those people that said, you know what?

I'll just draft Sam Darnold. Let's see what happens. It is paid some serious dividends for you. Well, let's, let's break it down. So I know we talked about it a couple times, and the format, this is Fanny's Football Shope, right? So the format you're playing in means everything. On underdog, where you're drafting best ball, Darnold made tons of sense to your points,

especially after J.J. McCarthy got hurt, because before that, they weren't projected to be a good team. Like what was the wind total on Minnesota? It was less than nine and a half. So six and a half. Six and a half. Wow.

So they're almost, are they there already? Like almost. So what probably happens is McCarthy goes in like what happened with may. They were not projected to be as bad as the Patriots, but that probably happens. And on underdog in all the tournaments where you can win literally millions, what matters the most is the final three weeks.

I mean, 15 through 17. So you don't want Jacoby Brissett. You don't want Sam Darnold. And if you're trying to project what's going to happen this year in those tournaments, when McCarthy goes down, Darnold becomes very interesting. That was like season ending, immediately announced season ending. So then you can make that bet. And those are, you know, great positions to be in.

If you look at your, your drafts and if you have Darnold in that, whatever it is, round 14 or something in best ball mania, then that probably looks pretty good in a vacuum. Redraft leagues, I know what I said to you was you should never have to draft him because in a traditional fantasy football league with one quarterback starting 12 teams, there are going to be plenty of good quarterback options on waivers. If you drafted, I think this is even still true no matter what the results have been Josh Allen certainly Lamar Jackson Jalen Hurts and you have Darnold as a backup you're you're kind of wasting that roster spot because you're still not putting him in over those guys the guy the one that I'm faced with the most often is Patrick Mahomes and I was just looking before

we started today at my stuff for this week. And like, there it is again, Darnold against Jacksonville, Mahomes against Denver, like 21-21. I mean, you have to decide if you have the stomach for drafting, for like benching Mahomes, which I think, you know, can be right to do. And then after that, if you started the season with C.J. Stroud or, of course, Richardson, some of these other guys Prescott you can move to Darnold and you feel good about that so should we all have been drafting him I

wouldn't say that I'll take the L on lots of things I mean Richardson for me for two years in a row has been a pretty big investment and I'm staring at these teams now where he's my quarterback one he's not going to play. That's death. It reminds me of having drafted Trey Lance a lot. Oh, he's the third overall pick. Garoppolo is terrible. This is going to be fine.

Doesn't play at all. That happens sometimes. So Darnold, and also, Matthew, he's not in his own class. I mean, Darnold, Geno Smith, Dalton for a minute, but Flacco now, Derek Carr, these guys who have given you, Darnold has outlasted them and he's been on the field every week doing mostly the same production work, but he is in a collection of players where you could have done the same thing. And that really speaks to why you don't draft him because you can pick from a group of guys the way this year has gone anyway. Um, that's been the case. So it's a good story. Uh, it, it's a very good story. It's now about in real football terms, whether he can keep it up

and get Minnesota to the playoffs in a very good division and it suddenly kind of a deep conference which is a you know really interesting to watch in fantasy if you have them you're happy but you shouldn't have needed to draft it mostly in most situations yeah when it comes to Darnold I think the big conversation was even in the beginning of the season is he going to be able to keep it up he gets off to this hot start. He has the bad game against the Jets. And then I think a lot of folks would have gone, ooh, is that going to be what Darnold is?

Have they kind of figured him out? And the last three games, even though they lost two of them, he played really well and he was great against the Colts, save for two very bad decisions. But I was looking at him just on paper and he's toward the top of the league in big-time throws by pro football focus. He's also at the top of the league in percentage of turnover-worthy plays. But I looked back at 2021 Matthew Stafford in the same offense

with a big-armed dude who had been flawed in his career, and it was the same sort of profile. And I think as we look forward to the defenses that Sam Darnold is going to face he's got this week is Jacksonville coming up Tennessee can be a little bit gritty but you've got Arizona down the line you've got Atlanta down the line these are not good defenses at all and also going back to, if you just take all of his play from the start of 2022 when he came in for Baker and then to now, he has over 100 quarterback ratings since then. He has really extended this quality play. And I think that because he was so poor in 2021 and before that with the Jets, you need a bigger and bigger and bigger sample. But now we're talking about 15 starts where he's looked like a well above average starting

quarterback. And I think if we're projecting him out for the rest of the season based on who they're going to play and the fact that they got Hawkinson back, it's just really hard to see this unraveling. It looks like he just has so many options that he's going to keep doing it. And after watching the film back from the indie game, I understand why he throws a bad interception now and then it's very Josh Allen. Like in the Canon is so absurd for four or five throws a game that he makes that are amazing that you get it. Why wouldn't you believe in yourself rolling to the left and being able to throw to the back pylon or something? So that's something they're going to have to deal with always with him. But I think

we've seen him just become a good quarterback. Well, always two different conversations, you know, in terms of fantasy, you'd like it if the Vikings defense were not as good, because while his rating is really good, he's not really throwing that many passes. Like, he's not cousins. I mean, I know that's close to home, but, like, one of these guys where Jameis Winston against Baltimore, you know, like, certainly these guys are going to throw the ball

all the time, and why we liked Darnold preseason was more about O'Connell, and that he has shown, I mean, dramatically that tendency, but they're, they're too good. Like the schedule Jacksonville and Tennessee, what's that? I mean, he could have 25 attempts a game in these two games and in fantasy, maybe that doesn't get you there. Um, as we know, and he's not a big runner. So there's the fantasy aspect of it, where if he's your quarterback in fantasy right now, you feel good. I mean, I don't think it's like having Lamar Jackson, but you feel pretty

good. He's definitely been, value-wise, he's been a win for you. In real football, wow, this is going to get interesting because they, I believe you would know better. Didn't they spend a first round pick on a quarterback in 2024? Like, are you processing what kind of season this ends up being where Darnold at least is, at least is considered for the starting job next year. Does he already have it? Is he under contract?

I don't know. It's your team. I don't know if he's under contract. This was a one-year $10 million contract for Sam Darnold, one of the best deals given out in the National Football League, I don't know, in a long time to get the $10 million journeyman quarterback and be 6-2. I think the plan is still going to be to turn things over to J.J. McCarthy. Kind of reminds me of Tyrod Taylor to Josh Allen, where even though Sam Darnold has been fantastic

and is a number three overall talent when you see his arm and all that, when you look at the surrounding cast and what they have with Jefferson, Addison, Hawkinson, and even, you know, Derisaw will come back, but an offensive line that could even be improved, but it's pretty good. I think that they believe that putting McCarthy into that with Kevin O'Connell into that environment, and even with a year to develop, I know that he's not developing at a hundred percent, but he's still doing the thing that a lot of teams should have done with their quarterbacks. I think that they're going to believe in him and he showed them so

much. I mean, people on the outside saw one preseason game on the inside. They saw 50 practices and they saw how he came to work every day, his massive improvement from the time that he got here, the type of person he is, how he connected with O'Connell, but it's risky. It's always risky. It's risky going, you know, the Tyrod Taylor debates went on for you guys for absolutely ever. The Alex Smith thing with Kansas City, it's kind of likened to that where you kind of just have to believe in what you think of the next guy because how would they stay this competitive if they paid Sam Darnold 45 million dollars going into the future it just we're back to the same Kirk thing the reason that Sam Darnold is so good in part is because they were able to get

three day one free agents on defense with all the money that they were projecting. So then what do you do after that? You just paid Derisaw. You just paid Jefferson. You can't go out and get an Aaron Jones if you are paying Sam Darnold $45 million. So I think that it really depends on how far they're able to go. If you go to the Super Bowl, it's pretty hard not to bring Sam Darnold back. If you lose in the divisional round, it's not that hard not to bring Sam Darnold back. If you lose in the divisional round, it's not that hard not to bring Sam Darnold back. Well, they have four division games left, I believe. And while they get to enjoy the AFC South, and by the way, isn't it great having the AFC South back? Wonderful. I mean, everybody's terrible. How have you enjoyed NFC North versus AFC South? I mean, personally, professionally, another matchup this week

that I think most people could not possibly remember a single game between the Vikings and the Jaguars. Like, it just seems like, I know it's every four years, but it seems more like every 10 to me. So, I mean, you talk about the trade deadline too, Matt. In fantasy football, we're trading, we're flipping Sam Darnold yesterday for a one somewhere. I mean, okay, well, we're flipping Sam Darnold yesterday for a one somewhere. I mean, okay, well, we're probably not as good as Detroit or even maybe Washington

or who knows, San Francisco, whatever else happens. You can't do that in real life. There was not a conversation, I'm sure, that happened. But we've got our quarterback of the future, and we're pretty good. I mean, imagine how crazy it would have been had they really traded him yesterday. And I won't bother to try to think of a team that could have put him in. It's a good one. I mean, it's got to be a fun season for Vikings fans with what the expectations were.

And in the content business, this is gold, Jerry. I mean, this is like what happens next year, the Super Bowl. What if they win two playoff games? What if they win one? What if they win the division? Like he's probably going there's maybe 10 teams that could massively upgrade with Sam Darnold. But to your point, I haven't spent a lot of time yet talking about the J.J. McCarthy, Sam Darnold thing, because I felt like we just haven't had a big enough sample to really say for sure. Like when he goes 3-0, people want to talk about it. And I'm like, OK, well, we're going to have to see little bit more than that uh but that there will definitely be a time for that conversation it probably is we got to know how it ends first before we could start saying could they bring

back Darnold I just don't know how you do it cap wise but yeah good you figure that out later I guess but think about the Colts you, you just played the Colts and one discussion we were having in Buffalo about them last week. I mean, there was kind of the story of the league, the Richardson benching and how Flacco was just too good for that role for Richardson's sake, you know, not somebody that you wouldn't even think twice about but he was literally in the playoffs last year and has a ring as he's a Super Bowl MVP Bulldog my partner at WGR was saying hearkening back to five years ago with Josh Allen he's like I never wanted the Bills to have a good like a known proven good backup for him because at the first two three turnover game

then we're talking about oh they should just put Cam Newton in. And then you're nowhere. Then your wheels are spinning. And that's the Colts. And it's probably the Panthers. You know, these teams that make, they make their bet on the rookie quarterback and then they give up on it

because actually NFL coaches are middle managers and don't get to decide these things in certain organizations. And it's a rug pull and who knows what happens to Richardson. I mean, he could have been traded yesterday. What are they actually going to do there? Just give up and he gets cut and he sort of ends up having a chance to be the next Darnold or somebody like that's just maybe over at 10 starts. It doesn't really make any sort of sense vision-wise. So now with Minnesota, Darnold and McCarthy, I think I would have said, was sort of a logical combination.

I mean, McCarthy wasn't the first overall pick, and so Darnold can play for a while. Again, it's like New England was for me. Washington never had this guy like Darnold. Chicago, I mean, Caleb Williams was so-called generational, so that wasn't going to be a thing, but somebody where you can take your time and the coach is on solid footing. O'Connell certainly is. Jared Mayo in New England was new, so he should be on pretty solid footing. They're going to give that a little bit of time replacing

Belichick. Anyway, I mean, it's going to be really interesting. What has Darnold really proven after eight games or what did he prove after three games? What has McCarthy proven, period? I mean, just like who knows what you get next year going in. So anyway, congrats to your followers and our watchers who are Minnesota fans, which is probably most of them in my family. Okay, so you say that, but we also have to talk about the other team the Vikings are playing, which not congrats to Vikings Jaguars. Although I am flying to Jacksonville, the weather's been a little miserable

in Minnesota, so that will be nice. But also today, the news that Trevor Lawrence is banged up. And you want to talk about a team who is down screwed street. It is the Jacksonville Jaguars. And also, you mentioned generational. Can we just not with that anymore? Can we just stop saying – I didn't say so-called.

I did say so-called. I know. I know. I put it in quotes. I want the draft people – I got a lot of requests for them but maybe one of them will be to stop calling people generational because trevor lawrence was flawed caleb williams is flawed i don't think any of them are peyton manning or andrew luck when it comes to how good of a talent that they actually are. But Trevor Lawrence, even though he has started games and he won a playoff game, has to be versus the hype, one of the most disappointing quarterbacks. Somebody did a comparison of Sam Darnold with the Jets to Trevor Lawrence and their statistics. It's not that different from what they

look like. I mean, we can't just keep blaming the organization over and over and over and over for Trevor Lawrence not being that good, right? No. You know, I'm in Buffalo, and they made the Josh Allen bet, and like, come on, what is this organization's, what are their chances of making this work? And it worked.

Like the guy had the drive to correct his flaws and improve. I mean, maybe on sort of like an insane level. And so sometimes it falls right. Jacksonville has had some good teams. You know, like they were pretty close to the Super Bowl when Bortles was their quarterback and Doug Marone was their coach. You know, you get those sort of moments, those chances. I think, I mean, not to just sort of be one from the echo chamber,

but the coaching change is long overdue. Whatever Lawrence really is, if you're the Jaguars, you can't really think – that's not the first question. The first question is right now, how do we get better from him? Like how do we get more one way or another? If that means changing the entire coaching staff, then of course we should do that. You know, whether that's weapons, they've done pretty well at surrounding him. I think with talent Ridley last year, and then Thomas first round pick Davis Kirk is a pretty good investment

Engram is a pretty good investment so I don't think they have that excuse but I just like if I'm running the Jacksonville Jaguars the only thing that really means anything to me right now is what I have to do to get him to a better place and I know I think there still might be enough talent to expect to be able to do that or to at least make it worth trying. It's not where you just, you're not going to release them. You really can't do that. You can't get away from it. And so I don't know what the, you know, the, I don't know the inner dynamics or what they're waiting for, but that's got to be the only thing really that matters for that organization. And another season here with the first overall pick is just going to go by in a year where

Stroud and the Texans are not impressive and Indianapolis is doing their thing and Tennessee is down really bad. And it just kind of feels like a really wasted opportunity, at least so far. Yeah. It just kind of feels like a really wasted opportunity, at least so far. Yeah, I mean, I think back a little bit to last year and how Lawrence had the Jaguars had that start. I think they were maybe nine and three or something like that. And then he got banged up and they completely fell apart. And if there was ever a moment that they were going to turn the corner,

it felt like it was lost there. And now we're talking about a guy who had a bunch of injuries in college. Now he's had a bunch more injuries in the NFL. And there may be something to it with that, where the injuries stack up and the guy just can't physically be what he was supposed to be. What's really disappointed me about Trevor Lawrence from watching him early in college, especially, is I expected a much more dynamic playmaker. I expected more running. I expected more like, Oh, he's going

to scramble around. He's going to make crazy plays. And this is something that I think about when we talk about guys going into early, it's not even just that they can't identify linebackers. It's that they get hurt all the time when they're young players and that's happened to Richardson and it's happened to Trevor Lawrence on a number of occasions uh and I just don't see this explosiveness from him he throws the ball hard but it's not always accurately it's definitely not in the right places I don't think that he sees the field all that all that well and you just end up with average, mediocre, 17th best quarterback in the league type of play over and over again. And I think at some point you could just point the finger at everybody else, but you've probably got to admit that he's just not that good.

And I don't know where they go from there. That is the most screwed franchise. I don't know what you do when you've paid the guy who clearly can't do it and take you to another level. And like you said, it's not like you're playing in the NFC North here. You're playing in a division where you should easily be able to be at the top. A mediocre Texans team is at the top. And I just don't know what they do.

Anybody else interesting to you though, on that team. Hold on. Let me silence my phone real quick. So I can tell you that us days are back at us cellular again, exclusive offers just for customers. Just to say, thanks right now,

you'll get $1,200 off any phone plus 400 off any tablet. Amazing, right? Yeah, but my family is so excited about their new devices that they keep texting me during the show. They're all about Us Day's deals like $1,200 off any phone and plus $400 off any tablet. Terms apply. Visit uscellular.com for details.

Well, Lawrence, I was just thinking of a comparison Visit uscellular.com for details. it comes down to the overall. I went to see the Jags play the bills and Monday night football. I'm on the night football on week three. And the first, they got way behind in the first half and the last play of the first half, they had the balls like fourth and two or something with like three seconds left. And they had him stay on the field, take the snap, roll right and throw the ball out of bounds.

Wouldn't risk the hail Mary. I mean, they're down 20 to 30 points whatever this 31 10 or something maybe it's worse than that at halftime and that was they didn't want to risk punting it didn't want to risk you know come on that's again where somebody independently goes in is like you have your jacksonville like what are you worried about what's the tell me what is gonna what's the worst case scenario here? Oh, losing? But in real life, a coach, the people in the jobs don't think like that. And that was largely my complaint about the Bills for a decade and a half here was you have to start thinking like underdogs and taking more risks that serve your long-term vision, which it's one of my favorite topics and I'll get to your question, but it's really why, how fans just almost unanimously hating on owners being involved in decisions

can get it wrong because the owner is the person with the same incentives as yours, you know, winning games and these coaches and players are all temps. So I don't think it's the worst. I mean, if the guy's incompetent, then you will never escape. Then you'll be one of these teams that can't get out of the hole. But yeah, I think like it can be a good thing where the owner is involved because their, their incentives are the same as yours. Tank Bigsby at running back. So Travis ETN got down. Bigsby had a couple of monster workload

weeks. Last week, ETN went back in and they split a little bit, but I think Bigsby right now is ahead of ETN. It makes them both tough to play. And this is a tough matchup for them. Brian Thomas Jr. has been excellent as a rookie wide receiver. So he's somebody that you like having in dynasty at least. And week to week, I mean, last week was a down week for him and for that team overall. But I think there's a really high ceiling with him career-wise. And then Evan Engram is another one where you can see him getting

10 targets for 50 yards, these kind of games. Lawrence seems to really sort of security blanket wise or lean on him. And at tight end where you live in the Kyle Pitts life and it's just touchdowns, then it's one for 11. I mean, you might like the security of having Engram. So in terms of fantasy football, there are a few guys, Kirk is out for the year Davis has been hurt and they're kind of scrambling after that but um you know Bigsby is somebody that in these underdog best ball drafts was often uh you know a dart throw in round 18 where you just want somebody that might give you a chance and if you did that and you have a good team otherwise that's pretty exciting yeah i was uh really fascinated by thomas coming out to

uh just the speed that he had i mean everybody of course is focusing on neighbors but it reminded me a little bit of when lsu had jefferson and chase it's like well you know is one guy a good because of the other guy and the answer is no everybody's just amazing and that's another sort of trevor lawrence doesn't really have that much of an excuse because they went out and got you a first round wide receiver and you still can't make that much of it. I'm not really sure why Jacksonville didn't trade off more of their parts. By the way,

they traded Cam Robinson to the Vikings and their backup is just giving up pressures left and right. It might, I don't know. It feels like they should just bench trevor lawrence and try to lose every game and fire doug peterson and hope that they can find their mike mcdaniel because for several years there we thought is anyone more average than tua and then mcdaniel comes in and he gets a lot out of tua so you can have the coach tweak up your offense and clearly

without tua they're not very good. Maybe there's something to that. I'm just starting to not really believe in it. I wanted to ask you about the Dallas Cowboys, my preseason Super Bowl pick. Not running away from that on the show. That was the truth. I thought that if they continue to be top offense in the league, top passing game, that they would surprise everybody

and Zim would push their defense over the hump, but that's why they played the games. And Cooper Rush is in now. What are we supposed to make of this? I mean, he's still going to throw it to C.D. Lamb on every play. If Lamb plays. That's all I got. If Lamb plays if lamb right because he's banged up too yeah suddenly jonathan mingo became relevant they're trading for him yesterday and jalen

tolbert i mean i think that could really go off the rails right like running back they don't have it rico dowdle is fine i guess but zeke's being benched and Delvin Cook is brought in. Like what? It's just always this year. It can often, it usually sounds like this with Dallas, but this year they were so quiet in free agency, all in, and then they were just mocked all summer. And now you have this where the defense has had games where there's complete, I mean, New Orleans took them apart.

That was a real thing that happened in week two. And the fact that now you have injuries, Prescott namely, and you have Washington at 7-2, like this is where it could really get stupid for Dallas. So, you know, fantasy-wise, Rush is somebody in a super flex league that you play if you have to. You're probably trying to pick him up tonight or last night if you had Prescott or if you've got four quarterbacks on by this week.

There can be those situations where you hope to get 15 points out of him, but we know the ceiling is pretty low. Ferguson at tight end, I guess, emerges. He was already pretty playable as somebody that maybe he even gets more of a target share because if Lamb misses, we don't know that yet. I know you've mentioned earlier that he, it's been said he might play, so we'll see on that, but that could also be like, yeah, this is dumb. What am I doing out here? The interesting player there, I think, is Trey Lance. I mean, they traded a draft pick for him, and he can't play above Cooper Rush in this situation.

It's over if that's the case, and it probably already was. But I'd love for the Cowboys to start Lance just to see what that can be. And fantasy-wise, I would want to have him if they did that. Basically, I drafted a lot of him when that happened in San Francisco, got burned and have just sort of gradually given up on it, cutting, held onto him as long as I could, cut him at certain points where you need somebody else like right away. But it'd be fun to see him play.

And then maybe you can get some like a justin fields kind of production line from lance because of the running but i don't think that's happening at least yet no they're gonna play cooper rush and they're gonna try to win every game and get back in it and i don't know i'm thinking about what happened from an offense that was so productive and i know that everybody talks about them not going into free agency while you're betting on an older running back other teams that bet on older running backs including the vikings have had it work really well and here's me thinking i don't know when we talk about running games it's mostly design it's mostly offensive line and then a few guys can push the

needle maybe it'll be fine with their duo and that they've got enough receiving talent they've got the same offensive mind who's running things i just don't really fully understand why everything came apart and why dak prescott just looks like he can't find anybody to throw the football to he's been known in his career as somebody who picks apart defenses and has a great mind for it and it seems like every play it's take the snap cd lamb cd lamb uh if he's not there i don't know just scramble throw it away dirt the ball it's been a miserable watch for that team and that's i mean one of of course my my bad bets

of the season but but I was, I don't, I don't, I don't really get it. I don't really get what happened. You're trying to define, trying to decide if you were wrong, you know, like sometimes you make the bet and you lose, but you think your process, your logic was good. So you don't feel like you were wrong. I guess I really don't know either. I'm not sure what their line grades look like this year. Maybe that's different, but it might not be. I mean, wide receiver two is going to be Brandon Cooks. All in isn't Brandon Cooks at wide receiver two. I mean, look at the receiver movement around the league. Dallas gave away Amari Cooper a couple of years ago, a trade

that looked terrible in retrospect for what they got after other receivers got better prices around the league. So, I mean, it didn't have to be Amari Cooper if he was even available, but whether that's the draft with all the receivers that everybody was excited about, Dallas did not partake. And yes, largely, I mean, on running back production, but Aaron Jones we knew was good, and Zeke we knew was bad. So that played out the same way. And, you know, then you can have injuries and you can have difficulties within, you know, coach-player stuff,

and it can get away from you. McCarthy has really never impressed for scheme stuff. Like they're not a team that, oh, look at what Dallas did here. No, it's Prescott kind of making it work over the years. So, I mean, I wasn't really, I wasn't on or off them this year. I can't, I'm not going to mock you for that. I really can't do that. But I'll say this.

It might be the number one team in the league for when they go bad it's really delicious and jets or dallas it's fun to watch them lose oh yeah unless you're the person who spent the summer saying hey this is overblown and everything else but i fully understand um and maybe i should have made that my thing last year and not this year. And it would have looked a little bit better, at least until the playoffs. I want to ask you about some teams and players in the NFC race, because it has gotten to be very interesting, especially since Philadelphia is that undertaker meme where he's in the coffin and then he just pops up that it looked like Nick Sirianni might get fired,

although if you follow Philadelphia people, he still should be fired, even though they're 6-2, but that's Philadelphia for you. Jalen Hurts is having, it looks to me, like a similar year to what he had a couple years ago, maybe not quite at the same level, but has bounced back. He was somebody that we discussed a lot in the offseason because he can run, but was Saquon going to take away a lot of his yards? And Saquon Barkley has turned out to be an incredible fit.

I would not suggest jumping backwards over people. It's a great highlight. It could also get you demolished, and he's had some injuries in the past. But Philadelphia has become very interesting to me so has Washington they buy at the trade deadline and Jaden Daniels looks like a legitimate star quarterback and then the other team that's in the mix here is Green Bay they lose to Detroit in a slop fest but Jordan Love comes back it's hard to know about his health and where that's going to go the rest of the season and we're still trying to decide is Jordan Love comes back. It's hard to know about his health and where that's going to go the rest of the season,

and we're still trying to decide, is Jordan Love really that guy in Green Bay? I think that those three teams that are kind of in the same bucket as the Vikings have a lot of interesting discussions with each team. Sure. On the Packers, that's the second time this year where Love came back, presumably early from whatever his injury was. And I don't know, like that that might be that he wasn't really ready to play either time. And now you have an accumulation. So it was definitely not a great day for him. And I'm sort of a fan of his and he's somebody that I've been betting on.

So I'm watching that game going, yeah, he probably shouldn't be playing and it's pouring out and they're just sort of like in a bad place. So I want to be optimistic on him. Fantasy wise, it's the same as ever. We were right here that there's a lot of talent around him, but you never know who it's going to be week to week. Even Jaden Reed, really, is just not a consistent producer in fantasy. Wicks has put zeros up. Watson is in and out of the lineup too, and Dobbs, there's really nobody.

Reed is the only one that comes close to feeling really good about putting him in your lineup every week, and Jacobs has been fine. Another of these, quote, old running backs that, I mean, at least I'm not the only one, but I'm betting against in draft season because of their age. Oh, they'll get hurt maybe or just, you know, they'll move a rookie.

Marshawn Lloyd was the name with Green Bay. You can't even see the field. And, like, it just hasn't happened. It's been a very tough year for like-minded drafters because Henry and Mixon and Jones and Jacobs to an extent, and Barkley are crushing you. Like nobody's missed a game and they're all putting up huge seasons. And my way kind of was,

which has worked in the past is to sort of avoid that kind of player, that profile. So Green Bay, long way to go. Love's health will mean almost everything about, you know, Willis has done fine, but what happens with the Packers? I think, you know, I talk every Wednesday, we talk and I'm like, I talked to Ross Tucker yesterday.

He comes on our WGR show on Tuesdays. I asked him about Washington because I don't know, like I'm not watching, I haven't seen much of their games. Next Thursday night is Washington, Philadelphia, by the way. So there's that to look forward to. He's like legit. Everybody loves playing for this coach, Quinn. Scheme-wise, they make sense.

And Daniels and Ross talked about, Ross talked about, I entire attitude of every player on the team changes if you think you know you have a number one quarterback. And so just probably demoralized Washington team for years has come to life because they would have so much confidence in Daniels. That seems right. So I think it's right to be really excited for them. McLaurin is somebody you start. Last week, it was two targets and two touchdowns, though.

Like, it's not sort of he's not getting the big volume or anything, but the efficiency with Daniels has been really good. And Philadelphia is kind of the same as ever. You know, Barkley has elevated the running back, you know, productivity for that team, obviously. But Devontae Smith, A.J. Brown, they take their turns being sort of the lead dog in that offense. They'll get Goddard back.

Hurts had a game two weeks ago where he ran for three. So fantasy production is still there. They don't always look that clean, but like you said, six and two. So I would think probably a playoff team. I think Washington is almost definitely, and NFC North is where it's really kind of iffy, except for Detroit. I think the Packers, the Vikings, I don't know the odds right now. NFC West plays into this too with where San Francisco is at 500 and the Rams have looked good, but everybody's kind of the same record-wise out there. Yeah, just to focus on Washington,

what a shame it is that Daniel Snyder wouldn't be the owner to see this. Ah, too bad. Shucks. They finally get that quarterback when they have an owner who's not a sociopath. But hiring Dan Quinn and letting him do stuff as the coach is probably a pretty smart move with daniels i i definitely know the feeling you're talking about we've seen it from a few teams i mean even the texans last year where maybe as an overall roster they weren't that great but there was an extra kind of jolt of energy when they all realized that cj stroud could do this.

The Daniels throw down the sideline to win the game to McLaurin was kind of this moment for everyone. Oh, we got a dude. The one thing that I wonder about them is just if they have enough weapons. They do have a good offensive line, but if they have enough weapons to be that scary, because they do have to give it to McLaurin a lot. It's the Robinson is a good running back, but it isn't like they have, you know, Saquon Barkley or some freak back there. And that can kind of run out on you eventually, if you have to push the ball too much to one guy, or if you have to rely on a quarterback using his legs all the time, as we see pretty often in the playoffs that that, uh, isn't quite

as effective against some of the best defenses. So I'm really curious about them. And anytime a team has a rookie quarterback, I think, well, they'll probably lose in the divisional round at best, right? Because that, that just is very tough for a rookie, but this guy's like not a rookie when you're 24 years old to start. It's sort of the Burrow effect. Wow, he's only in his second season. Look how good he is. Yeah, but he can like rent a car.

So he's a real adult. He's older than Darnold. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Right. And honestly, Jaden Daniels is not that much younger than Sam Darnold. Jaden Daniels is like, what, three years

older than J.J. McCarthy. It's a pretty significant thing. And I keep going back to when Kweisi Adafomensa said they basically get AAA seasons if they are playing into their 20s like this. And I feel like I'm really feeling that with Daniels. He just doesn't look like a rookie or act like a rookie in any way. Right. And this is also a Richardson point because Richardson is 21 or 22 and just like so young and with so little experience going in, you're betting on the physical talent and then you give up on it before you ever give yourself a chance to develop it, which is just really

sad. Yeah. I like the point about weapons with Washington. Noah Brown has, that's the Hail Maryland, apparently, that play. And then Zach Ertz also, down week last week, but he's been kind of a safety blanket as well for Daniels, otherwise, Diami Brown. Not a lot going on with Washington, but they do make the move on defense yesterday with Lattimore and very promising team.

Did you want to talk about the Vikings backup kicker for a second before? We're talking, are we at John Parker Romo? John Parker Romo. He's not bad. He was here in camp, but Will Reichard was a freak, so that's why he didn't stick with the team. XFL guy. I've been picking him up this morning.

Literally, I have been doing that. John Parker Romo. Jake Moody, for you kicker sickos out there, is probably back for San Francisco. Good matchup, great offense. So he's somebody that you might also want to look at on waivers. It's going to be four weeks and probably a lot of extra points against the Jaguars. Let's get to our Thursday night pickups.

Hey, a Thursday night game that has got a lot of juice and a reminder that we're doing these pickups over on Underdog Fantasy. And if you want to play along with us, very easy to play. Just pick between two and eight stats of your favorite players. You try to get five out of five and win 20 times your money. We usually get four out of five and don't do that, but we're trying our best. One of these nights, we're going to really crush it.

But if you want to play along, download the Underdog Fantasy app. It is incredibly easy to play. I opened it up, I clicked NFL, and there it was for Thursday Night Football to play the Pickhams. And if you use that promo code PURPLE, it helps the show.

So I really appreciate that. So make sure you go do that. Must be 18 or older. Terms apply. Concerned with your play? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit ncpgambling.org. What do we have for Bengals and Ravens? I'm excited for this one.

You also don't have to only play that game. Like we could throw a five pick entry in four on the game and if you get the four then you could even maybe hedge somehow if you pick your fifth pick on the Vikings game or something like that so at the risk of disappointing you for the first time this year I have yet to enter a pick'em because I want to know about T Higgins first. And that might be known by the time this airs, but as of when we're recording, I didn't see, like, I feel like he's probably going to miss, but he makes a tremendous difference in terms of where the ball goes for

Cincinnati. If he's not on the field, when he's played full games this year, he's been really good. I mean, a guy that you would have wanted to start. But if he doesn't, what they're doing, this happened earlier in the season, and again, certainly, quintessentially, Sunday against the Raiders, was throw the ball to Mike Gesicki

and even one of three other tight ends. It's really weird how Cincinnati takes such a turn without Higgins. They had this rookie, Jermaine Burton, who apparently really messed up, you know, might have gone AWOL this weekend, and the reports were, I mean, you knew the leaks were serious from the team when they were basically, you know, exposing the guy for not returning calls or anything like that. We built our game plan around him. And so like that, that's kind of rough.

And they have Andre Yoshivas, who just isn't that good. He caught one touchdown, caught a touchdown pass in the game, but I think that was his only catch. So really the Bengals, I got to know what Higgins status is. It's also just sort of a conceptual thing, a little too tempting to bet on the shootout outcome in this game. They played earlier in the season. It was 41-38. Baltimore's offense has been close to perfect. They've added Deontay Johnson for what that's worth. Flowers a huge game last week. Andrews always feels right.

Derrick Henry, yikes. I mean, Jackson is third in the league in passing yards and second with Burrow in touchdown passes. That wasn't supposed to happen. You know, third in yards, Lamar Jackson with the running. So it's, to me, I want to see about Higgins. Baltimore is tricky because Flowers is some, anybody that had the huge game last week,

I want to be really careful with. And so I might want Johnson instead of Flowers and a pick them and also kind of assume this game is just not going to be 79 points again. So the lowers are a little bit less exciting. They're less fun. They're less fun to have when you're watching the game. You're sort of counting up, and you want your guys to get to that higher that you picked.

But I will share mine when I have it. But I don't have it yet because I got to wait on Higgins. And then you have the Khalil Herbert addition with Cincinnati, Deontay Johnson with Baltimore. I don't know yet what I want to do because I want to read more today about what we think the plan is for the new guys. Okay, so everything you just said, hey, maybe don't assume it's going to be a shootout.

When I look at these, I'm like, higher. 268.5 for Joe Burrow and 232.5 for lamar jackson just feels like lamar is going to throw for more than 230 the way that he's been playing and also their defense just isn't that good 93.5 for derrick henry is a little bit tough there uh but he usually gets a 50-yard run anyway and gets halfway there. These two offenses, this feels like it could be the most fun game of the year when it comes to this.

Maybe you're right. Maybe what we think is going to happen is not always what happens. It might be 17-13. I mean, that would be shocking, but just remember it is Thursday night, and it is the second meeting of the season, division rivals, where you can see, you know, we've played this team. We know what to do. That was a game where both offenses did whatever they wanted.

I mean, the total is 53. Baltimore is 6.5 and 53. So, like, 30 to 24-ish kind of a game is where the point spread is. Um, and if it's 30 to 24, you might get your hires on those guys. I just have, I'm,

I'm always sort of like, what is everybody, everybody saying and what just happened. And I think, you know, it can be effective to sort of go the other way when that's the case. And it sounds pretty, it's pretty loud on this game where everybody's just expecting the moon, whatever

that phrase means. Right. Well, if I'm going to give out, if I'm going to give out my ridiculous pick, I'll go with justice Hill scoring a touchdown and you get times 2.8 on this. If he scores either a rushing or receiving touchdown. I just like Justice Hill. Every time he plays, he's just a violent little dude that I feel like shows up at the biggest times for the Ravens. One more Ravens question for you. What year should I stop making fun of the NFL

for drafting Lamar Jackson 32nd because they thought he couldn't throw? I mean, switch to running back. The combine, this guy was so fantastic in college. He was good at throwing the ball in college. And at the combine, are you switching to running back? Will you do running back workouts? Bill Polian's on TV. I think these guys are running back.

Yeah, turns out Bill Polian's genius was falling ass backward into Jim Kelly and Peyton Manning thanks Bill for that commentary I mean never just never stop making fun of the league for drafting him 32nd and for people thinking he should go to being a running back he's going to win the MVP again right I he could he's like the co-favorite right now with Josh Allen. I think the argument against that has been, do they really want to give him three MVPs without a Super Bowl appearance? You know, Mahomes has two. Allen has zero.

I think there's a legacy aspect to that that kind of makes you wonder. But last year, I thought Allen had the better season but Jackson had the better team and Jackson won 49 out of 50 first place votes so that could be flipped this year Mahomes is undefeated if they go undefeated like how does he not win you know so it's it's always a fun debate uh of course I think you know, I'm 100% likewise on Jackson. I remember talking to Matt Waldman, who's one of my favorite analysts, and really breaking down film to the fullest extent. And that year, 2018 in Buffalo, we're talking about the rookie quarterbacks every day.

And he's like, look, not everybody's going to tell you this, but Lamar Jackson is the best pocket passer in this draft. But his running is so incredible, best ever at the position that that's going to be what everybody talks about. But he is the best pocket passer in that draft. Darnold, Mayfield, Allen, Rosen, and Jackson. So, I mean, I can see it. And he's somebody who I've been a defender of since day one. And, you know, in a way, I want to see him win because his playoff results can be so random.

I mean, Flowers fumbles at the one-yard line last year. It upset me for Jackson that he wasn't willing to take off in that game against the Chiefs right from the beginning of the game. There was a second play of the game. He slid early and just, like, that looked weird to me. Like, he just wasn't right mentally for it. But every year is different. Bills are largely kind of the same team in this way.

MVP should be really interesting. Well, if history was a little bit different, the Minnesota Vikings would not have signed Kirk Cousins and would have kept Case Keenum and drafted Lamar Jackson. And who knows what would have happened from there? Anyway, Mike, the deep end fantasy football podcast. It's where people can find you.

And every week we do this. It's always a lot of fun. And thanks to underdog fantasy. If I have not mentioned that more than three or four times promo code purple. So we'll have another fun week. We'll see what type of numbers the Vikings put up against the Jaguars. And we'll do it again soon.

Thanks for all your time, Mike. Thanks, man.