Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - The top 10 things we need to see from the Vikings post-bye (Part 2)

Episode Date: October 9, 2025

Matthew Coller takes a step back at the bye week to make a list of the things we need to see from the Vikings in the next portion of the schedule in order for them to make the playoffs. The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Also, check out our sponsor HIMS at https://hims.com/purpleinsider Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This episode of Purple Insider is presented by Fandul. Son of Beavers, who are the offensive linemen we could sign or trade for just in case? Man, if you have a good offensive lineman, you keep them forever. I mean, I can look. I know people have thrown me out some names. Hey, there's this guy from the dolphins and maybe they trade. Oh, okay. I mean, if there's, if there's a,

guy out there that another team will trade okay but usually if you're a good offensive lineman you're not getting traded not unless it's a cam robinson situation where the team is already unhappy with you and to say that he's a good offensive lineman would be a stretch he was a starter um but the team was already unhappy with him he had had some injuries his performance had had dipped and that's when he became available for trade if you're a good offensive lineman uh you're probably not getting traded teams usually try to hold on to you unless you tell them hey i'm absolutely not signing with you but look at i mean will fries and aaron banks these guys got huge dollars at the guard positions centers are getting paid more money so teams want to wrap those guys up long term and then

have 10 years of that good center not just say hey well we'll just trade you away um i think there are other positions where you could find a little easier than uh the center position i think center position is extremely extremely hard to find so i don't have a good list if you've got guys that you're some people mentioned the guy from the raiders um but he's he's pretty young like are they do when i don't think the raiders are going to tank i think they're going to try to fight this out so i'd be pretty surprised if there's anybody who ends up available at the offensive line spot that they could trade for i think you're you're with brandle at least you got a guy who can lead the group and then if you have a 17 million dollar right guard and a first round left

guard and two Pro Bowl caliber tackles, you're okay with one guy who's not quite as physically gifted in Blake Brandel. And, you know, maybe they will go back to Juergens, but I'd like to see it be Brandel. Um, Gizincad says I saw someone say that putting Flacco behind the Bengals line is elder abuse. That line's a mess. Poor Flacco. He goes from a team that was bad to a team that was just as bad in the Bengals. I don't know. What are you supposed to do if you're the Bengals? you need to try to do something for T. Higgins and Jemar Chase. That whole team is bad. They showed before that when they weren't that bad,

Jake Browning was fine. And this is why numbers the quarterback position are so tricky. Jake Browning was okay during that one run, but they had a better team at that point. And they had apparently a better line. I haven't thought of them as having a good line, but they apparently had a better line. And now they're going to ask Joe Flacco to go out there.

Oh, man, that is sad. It really speaks to when you get Carson Wentz right before the season. I mean, the other teams are out here trading for Joe Flacko. Like the Vikings, they really lucked out on that and got a draft pick for Sam Howl. But they lucked out on that that Carson Wentz wanted to come here and play for the Vikings. Because can you imagine if they had had Sam Howell? I think it would have been O for three. And then maybe they would have been the ones trying to trade for Joe Flacko.

we did talk about that in the offseason, by the way, when we were looking at who's going to be the backup quarterback, Joe Flacco came up. Jay says, why would you not start Wentz versus the Eagles? Yeah, I know every comment section is funny because every time we talk about it, there's half of the group is aggrieved

that I would even mention Carson Wentz as a starter against Philly. And then half of the group has no idea why you would even consider benching him. And I could cover both. sides of that. The reason you would continue to go with Carson Wentz is if you feel like you'd like to see J.J. McCarthy get another month of real practice against the ones behind the scenes and work out some of those kinks. It is not a crime to develop a quarterback. And sometimes

it has to be done in practice. And quarterbacks will tell you, a lot of them will tell you that running that scout team, it's not playing, but you also don't get killed when you're doing it. You can make some mistakes running scout team and you can learn a lot about playing against a top defense. And I know people say, well, they had training camp, but that's running, it's running real plays and they're preparing for real games and it's just more reps of doing the thing. It's more, I mentioned this the other day. Like you don't go out and play the cello in front of an opera house.

you practice in your apartment, right? And then you go out and play. So it's the same kind of thing with sports where it's like sometimes somebody does need more time practicing where it's not under the lights in the fundamental elements before they can do it. So if McCarthy doesn't play against Philadelphia, he's not a bust. It's not the wrong decision. KOC's not out of his skull. They're not taking crazy pills and trying to ruin J.J. McCarthy or anything. they're just trying to get him more work behind the scenes on some things that he needs

in order that are mandatory in order to play. So that's why you would consider playing Carson Wentz. And why you would consider not playing Carson Wentz is that he's been fine. And I have been very happy with the backup quarterback play. I mean, you know, as a enthusiast of journeyman, look at this guy. Like Josh McCown plays here. then another guy has been with six teams in six years. These are my people.

So, you know, this is a backup quarterback journeyman quarterback house. So when a guy comes in on his six team in six years and wins two out of three, it's like, love to see that. Love to see the journeyman quarterback doing the journeyman quarterback thing. But it's been journeyman quarterback level play. It's been good. He's gotten them a couple of wins. And that drive was fantastic.

I mean, that one is memorable. That one will be played next time they're in London, probably next year. They'll go back to that. Great drive, great win against a really hard defense, managed it super well. But we're also talking about a guy that injured his shoulder trying to make a crazy play and had some turnovers and big sacks against Pittsburgh lost in the game there. And it's been journeyman quarterback level play. Good.

And you're appreciative of it. But you're not usually sitting. your QB1 for performances like that. So that would be the reason to go back to McCarthy is that you're looking for somebody who can be the first round pick that can take you to another level. And maybe to the Fandual question of the day,

maybe it's two different answers, I guess, of like how many you expect them to win? I guess the question was how many do they need to win? Maybe it should have been how many do they expect them to win? Because the Fandual question of the day was the next four opponents are all favorites to win their degree. vision, even the Ravens at plus 105, and Philadelphia minus 220 is the favoritiest favorite,

how many games I said, do you expect them or do you need them to win to make the playoffs? Maybe I should have said, expect them to win, and it might be two different answers with two different quarterbacks. Son of a beaver says two and two, at least, oh, and four, and people start to get fired. I don't think this is a year for that. I don't think it's a year for that. I just, I don't, who are you firing? Josh McCown.

Like, I don't know. No one's getting fired. If it's a bad season, I'd like to present you with Kyle Shanahan. Kyle Shanahan has had six win seasons. He's had four win seasons. You don't fire good coaches. To me, you don't even talk about firing good coaches. They're going to have bad gears.

Marvin Lewis was a great example of this. Mike Tomlin. Hey, look who's at the top of the AFC North again. It's Mike Tomlin. And they've got a good chance to win it. And, you know, people wanted him fired after. only getting a winning record every single year, no matter who the quarterback was,

and you just don't fire guys like that, unless you absolutely have to. Not guys who have a good culture. With Mike Zimmer, Mike was a good football coach and was always in the mix, but the culture had fallen apart and you had to get a change. But somebody who keeps the players together, pulling in the same direction,

who gives you a chance to win every year, you don't just, hey, we're going to fire that guy one year into an extension, that would be insane. So I don't even start to think about that. Let's see. Rob says, I disagree with number 10. What was number 10? Number 10 was get some breaks on the schedule.

You disagree with getting breaks on the schedule? You think that they could play the best version of the Chargers, the best version of the Eagles, the best version of the lions, the best of the Ravens, that they need no breaks? I mean, I agree with your next sentence. We haven't seen the Vikes team at their best yet.

Oh, I agree with that. But the idea that they don't need any breaks the rest of the way, I mean, I think that goes for almost any team in the NFL right now, that you need some good breaks to happen. You need to play a Jake Browning and beat his face in. Like, you need that. If they play Joe Burrow, who knows how that ends up playing out. I know Isaiah Rogers doesn't end up with two touchdowns, probably.

so yeah you need some good things to happen to be in that mix with the degree of difficulty I would defend that one son of beavers fire kevin stefansky when the owner gave a five year fully guaranteed $230 million contract two-time coach of the year look i like kevin stefansky a lot i covered step Kevin i've talked to him numerous times for articles and different things like that i mean we're not home boys but you know i mean have been around him have immense respect for him. And he did an amazing job in 2019, the year that earned him that head coaching position, amazing job. Sticking with the run, play action, screen. We still talk about it. At the same time, when you're losing games and just the whole thing is falling apart,

eventually you just have to do something as an organization. It doesn't matter whose fault it was. It was Woody Johnson's fault that the Jets were as bad as they were. But it still made sense to fire their coach. not when they did, but it still made sense to fire their coach. There's a lot of scenarios where it's the owner's fault. And yet still, you know, you should make a move because you kind of have to. You have to reset the locker room. You have to get the fan base excited about something when there's nothing to be excited about, except for some prospects that they have.

I mean, when you're losing like this, you win three games last year. Usually coaches don't survive a three win season. You win three more. you're going to stick with the same coach through multiple three-win seasons. I mean, I couldn't do that. That would be too difficult. I think you've got to make a change at some point. But, I mean, that doesn't mean, I think Kevin's a bad coach.

I just think you can't continue to go forward when you're winning two or three games. And it's just that bad. Zumer Kev says the Zoolander offense. Okay, that's a, this is a good, sorry, I started laughing as you're saying it, because Zoolander is my favorite movie, which says a lot about my film tastes, by the way. When I tell you guys, I don't know anything about anything outside of football

and maybe guitars, it's true. The Zoolander offense for QBs who can't throw good is very funny. That's the kids who can't read good or, you know, how are they going to fit in the building. How are the quarterback's going to fit in the building is my question. Yeah, you know, it's really the offense for a veteran quarterback who is playing behind a banged-up offensive line in Wence and whose strength at this point in his career is seeing the field and reading defenses and getting rid of the football. And for McCarthy,

I still think the right way to run the offense for McCarthy at the end of the day is to look for those intermediate passes where he's at his absolute best. It doesn't have to be a check-down Charlie offense. The point is that sometimes it just calls for that. And now I can just instead of saying it off my own opinions. I could just go back to O'Connell's quotes because he said it right out. O'Connell said, hey, there was a play late in the game where Carson Wentz gets to his checkdown quickly and lets it go underneath to Hawkinson and they get 14 yards. It's a great play, but you only get there if you're going through your reads quickly and reading the defense quickly. And that's where McCarthy has to get to. You can, man, you can strap on all the VR helmets that you

want. But when it's the actual game speed, it's different. So you have to, if you're McCarthy, have the fundamentals of the offense locked in. It's like this. I like these musical references. I like to play off the top of my head, improvise. So I'll just pick up the instrument, put on some backing music, and I can play. And I can make it sound good. Do you know why? It's it's because I have the fundamentals of the instrument down. And so I know where to go and I know what the notes are and I know what the scales are and everything else. And I don't have to think about it too much. That's where you want McCarthy to get.

Will he get there by playing one game? Like, no, it's probably going to take a while. And it's probably going to take patience at times. And it's going to take help. But if you can't get to your checkdown, and as I told you guys, those numbers, if you're holding the ball for three seconds on throws behind the line of scrimmage and before 10 yards, I mean, you are going to get crushed. Just for example, I'll give you the same numbers from Wentz

on throws that were under nine yards, between zero and nine yards, 1.96 seconds for Carson Wentz. That includes getting even a little bit of a checkdown to T.J. Hawkinson, under two seconds on those short throws for Carson Wentz. That's where you got to be. And he can get there.

He could definitely get there. He's just, he's got to work on those things, but he can get there. There's no way to just cover it up, right? So folks, maybe you haven't started your holiday shopping yet, but those holidays sneak up on you fast. So let me give you some advice. Check out uncommon goods. Uncommon goods makes holiday shopping stress-free and fun with thousands of one-of-a-kind gifts that you can't find anywhere else.

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may vary based on studies of topical and oral monoxidil and finesteride. Featured products include compound drug products, which FDA does not approve or verify for safety, effectiveness, or quality. Prescription required. See website for full details, restrictions and safety information. Let's see. Adam says terrible take. We have no clue what his fourth, fifth, and sixth incidents will be. They're going to grab his option and trade him, referring to Jordan Edison. Well, apparently you have already decided that he's going to have those incidences. And I would love to have your fortune telling abilities on the show. Maybe we can sign an agreement. So you can message me what's going to happen in the future. And then I'll know. And then I can

do the show better. And with my predictions, especially when I'm doing fan duel over unders. I could really use it. Look, we don't, we don't know. I do know. And when you say terrible take, terrible take is that they would want to keep a great receiver. Whoa, man. Whoa. I apologize. There's been a lot worse off the field incident players in NFL history whose teams have signed them to contracts. Is it concerning? Yes. Have I been critical of Addison? Yes. And some of you were not happy with it when I was over the DUI. But I was very critical of him for that. And guess what?

I was critical this weekend of him. And I said, you don't get more strikes. Call this one a foul ball. But you are walking an edge, my friend. But do I think that this team wants to have him long term? Oh, yeah, I do. Listen to the way Kevin O'Connell talks about him. Watch him play.

Oh, yeah, I do. They want to have this guy for a long term. time. They want this to be Carter and Moss for a long time. And they're going to do everything they can to make it happen. I don't know that he's going to have other issues. It's concerning. It certainly is. And I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt to say, oh, yeah, Jordan will be fine. Don't worry. Well, I don't know that. You don't know that either. But do they want to keep him? Oh, yeah. Yes. Yes, they do. And I always think it's amazing how fast fans will turn on their own great player. And we saw a lot of that too with Jordan Addison. And again, needs to be held

responsible for his actions. Justin Jefferson seemed to be very unhappy about it, which tells you a lot. So I'm not giving him any free passes for any of the incidents. All ridiculous. It's ridiculous to miss anything when you're on a trip in Europe with your team. My gosh. But if you think they don't want to have him around and they're going to do everything they can, I would just disagree because he's a great football player and Kevin O'Connell has really, in his own words, wrapped his arms around him. So they want him to be there. Let's see.

Trona says to lay the Falcons game all on McCarthy, just stop right there. Every time I point out the mistakes that J.J. McCarthy made in that game, which the head coach alluded to in his comments the other day. It's like, how dare you blame him for everything? Who blamed him for everything? I mean, this is, this is like, there's a lot, there's sayings for this that are inappropriate to say. But it's, it's just gaslighting.

It's just gaslighting when you say that, like, oh, it wasn't all his fault. It wasn't he had this, this, this, this, this. Carson Wentz just won a game with four backup offensive linemen, folks, you're allowed to do it. He was, he could have played well in the Atlanta game. He didn't. It's okay to admit. that the guy who they want to be the franchise quarterback had a bad game and that the coach

wants to see him correct the things that he did wrong in order to go forward. It's okay. There's a lot of young quarterbacks who have had bad games. He had a bad game. He didn't get the ball out of his hands. He didn't see the field quick enough. He didn't have his fundamentals and footwork. And no game is ever anybody's fault completely.

But let's live in reality. It was the 11th worst game and quarterback rating of the last 25 years of Vikings football. It wasn't secretly fine. That doesn't mean he can't improve. And I think he will. I've watched all of training camp and came back here and sat every night and told you guys, I mean, he's getting it.

He's coming along. I'm seeing it. I think he's going to be good. I think he's going to have a good season. Dane Mizatani and I both sat here and said, I don't see any way that kids not at least decent. and then he has a bad game and normally what would happen is

he would have come back the next week and he would have played the Bengals and then we would have seen where it went. The injury, setting him aside, I think he's got people all twisted up in their brains trying to like make that okay what happened against Atlanta. It wasn't, but it's not the last game he's ever going to play.

There are quarterbacks who have played 30 games who we still debate over and don't feel like we know who they are or what they're going to be. And in fact, really, I mean, okay, I'm pretty sold on Jaden Daniels. I'm getting pretty sold on Drake May. But do we know what Caleb Williams is? No.

Do we know what Michael Pennix is? No. Do we 100% know what Bo Nix is? Like, maybe 75%. And those guys have played two years. McCarthy's played two games. Deep breaths, my friends. You're going to need them, I think.

Mama says, how is, here's it. Now, here's a whiplash. how is Bo Richter looked, haven't been paying attention. Not that many snaps for Bo, but it does say something that they decided to use him. He played nine snaps in the last game. Can't really take anything from that. He's overall played 31. But they have been mixing him in on defense rather than elevating Gabe Murphy.

So I think they want to see more of him, I would bet. Marauder says, you're saying trade wence before he's a problem and ride JJ. Yeah, no, I'm not saying that because they might need him. They might need him. I just mean that a quarterback controversy can be difficult to navigate. So it's a delicate situation. That's what I mean. That's all I mean.

Andrew says, remember when Trent Williams went for a third. Let's do that at center. Did he, did Trent Williams go for a third? what was the trade Trent Williams traded to 49ers was it a third it was a third and a fifth that's crazy yeah that's crazy that was I mean if there's a guy who I guess really wants out maybe that ends up happening that is a crazy deal good memory there sometimes yeah sometimes guys can get traded centers though I don't know there's only so many in the league it's pretty rare I mean Laramie Tunsel got trade. I'm not saying it's impossible. It's just kind of hard to do.

There might only be one or two guys that it's even possible to have that discussion about maybe getting a trade for a center. And then it's a position where you need to know O'Connell uses the language where all the bones are buried. You do need that. So that plays into it as well. Like you bring in the center and he could block. That's the difference with the tackle is you bring in a tackle. Even then we saw was hard for Cam Robinson, but mostly it's, you know, you're blocking out there. Center, you're doing the whole stuff. Like, you're reading the defense. You're the leader of the offensive line.

You're directing the other guys. Like, you need a good center there. Jason says, I think JJ needs a lot of work. But if you start JJ versus the Eagles, you can't baby him. You have to take the training wheels off. Either he's ready or he's not. Well, I think you can play the middle of that. Yes, I agree that babying him.

is probably not going to do a whole lot of good. Trying to get him to throw every pass two yards is not going to take advantage of his actual skills, his arm talent that we know he has. So you want to mix that in. I think it's being smart. I think what they did against the Browns was just smart. They didn't push Carson Wentz too hard and they got completions that move the ball. But they also realized that he's Carson Wentz.

And he's a guy who has an arm and they let him lose sometimes. Like he was a former top pick. he can throw a ball down the field if you need him to. It was just a really good like aware game plan. And that's what you have to be with this. It has to be aware. Brian says we need health.

I agree with that. They're working that. They're definitely working on that. They're improving. And look, one of you said we don't know who this team is yet. I think it was maybe Rob. That I agree that it was we don't know who this team is yet. Jeremy, how is KOC considered one of the best coaches

with no playoff or Super Bowl wins. Well, look, though, I mean, do I have to answer that? I mean, they've had seasons of 13 and 14 wins. They've done it with Kirk Cousins who never had more than 10 before, and Sam Darnold, who had never had more than seven, and that seven-win season, he didn't even play very well. I mean, is that how we do it?

Every coach, every coach without the ring, just sucks, then I guess you'd be firing a lot of people because only one out of 32 wins and Andy Reid has had a few of them rings and so is Bill Belichick because they've had the best quarterbacks on Earth. So, you know, I don't know that the Vikings went into those playoff games with the best quarterbacks on Earth. Maybe you think that of Kirk or Sam Darnold, but I would say they're more of good quarterbacks, but definitely not great. I think both playoff losses do rest at his feet and you cannot call him the best coach in the league without those things. So I do agree that the playoff wins have to happen. But we can also use

our brains, right? We can look at the teams that made the playoffs and the years that they had and say, did the head coach get as much out of those teams as he could? Last year's team was supposed to win six or seven games. So I would say the answer is yes. The team that had 13 was supposed to win eight. So I would say yes. And then 2023, the quarterback injury, but still a 500 team and ascending when Kirk got hurt. I mean, every single year, you go into the season, assuming that your coach is going to give you a chance every week and is going to lead your franchise in the right way. That's something that you don't fire. I did not say he's the best coach in the league. I said that you don't even talk about firing a coach that's this good, which I think

is, it goes without saying at this point, although the internet has got somebody for everything, right? There's always a guy who no matter how many, no matter how many games, you know, they've won or how good the franchise has been since he's gotten here and everything else and how he's given him a chance to be in those spots. It's, hey, where's your ring? No ring? You stink. Get out of here. Okay. I mean, you can, you can feel that way. I don't think it makes a lot of sense, but you can feel that way if you want to. Trone guy says McCarthy needs work. He's only played two games after missing a year.

He's not going to be Brady right away. Well, no one's going to be Brady ever, except Mahomes has been, but even him, not perfect. I think what you're looking for from J.J. McCarthy is to be, and I say this in a complimentary way, I say this in a good way, to be a glorified game manager, which is what Carson Wentz, was last week, where you keep the train on the tracks offensively, you have longer drives. If you have to punt, that's okay. Ryan Wright's punting his ass off this year, so that's all right. And if you got to lean on the run, that's okay.

And then make a couple of plays a game, make some plays with your legs, do a few things that are special, first round pick stuff, great throws, great plays, clutch throws, like against Chicago, and you're going to win because of the defense you have, because of the run game with the offensive line coming back. If you can do that, you can win a lot of games. He does not have to be Tom Brady and stand at the line of scrimmage and direct everybody and chaos. He shouldn't ask him to do this.

He shouldn't ask him to be Brady either at the line of scrimmage. I don't think that he will. But you have to meet a certain bar. If you don't meet a certain bar, then it's not really going to matter. But we should not judge what J.J. McCarthy is going to be for his career off his first two games. that I see, you know, enough of, hey, get over at East thing. Like, okay, it's the same thing with fire KOC. It's just unsurious, unsurious fan thoughts.

If, you know, I'm not even sure everyone who shows up here is always even a fan. So just unsurious bleep posting, I believe is what it's called. And I know, I know some of you guys get on me, too, and I get emails about this. Stop answering certain comments. Well, I think usually two things. Normally, I think there's enough people with a certain thought that I want to address it. Other times, it's also really hard to talk and read the comment first. So I'm a little Ron Burgundy sometimes where maybe the start of it,

the first five words look reasonable. And then, you know, I get the rest of the way in and who knows where it's going to take me. But that's why I feel lucky to have great commenters who I can trust to read the comments. Let's see. most as McCarthy's Falcons game looked a lot like Darnold's Rams game, which looks like a offensive approach issue more than a physical or mental inability issue.

I don't agree with that. I don't agree with that. The Rams game, they got outschemed and they got demolished on the offensive line by the best D-line in football. In the Falcons game, there were several plays where that happened, three plays where that happened.

But the bigger picture and the data's right there for you. And that's why I lean on it because I can say, was it just me or no, it was not just me. When even the short passes are not coming out until three plus seconds, that means that it's not the scheme. There's no scheme that has a six-yard pass coming out after three and a half seconds. It's the quarterback not getting to the place where he can see where it was supposed to go, not throwing with anticipation and not having his feet in the right places to do so. That's what happened in the Falcons game.

It's on, not only is it on the tape, but it's also all over O'Connell's commentary over the last couple weeks, which is okay. But again, like these things are, these things are there, and it's certainly there with Wentz. It's like, did the Browns not have a great D-line? I thought they had like a top 3D line in the league. And Wentz got rid of the football. You could see it all over the tape where Wentz is getting rid of it before the Browns can even get there. And that helped the offensive line.

So you could see where if the quarterbacks hang on to it forever, and this is why a lot of people will say that pressure and sacks are a quarterback stat. To me, there's no debating what happened. It's all about how you're going to fix it. If you crash a car by running it into a pole, there's no sense of standing around and going, why did you crash that into the pole? It's, how are you going to not do that again?

Well, you know, somebody put a poll there. That's kind of the commentary that got back sometimes about that game. Well, who put that poll there? I don't look at it that way. I look at it as you crash the car as most whom are learning to drive have happened, right? Maybe when learning to parallel park, you bump into somebody, you hit a bumper, right? Young drivers, do they ever make mistakes? Why is that?

Because they don't have enough reps. It goes that way with a lot of things. so modern moose says bottom line addison is a fantastic receiver and a great team guy that is a i mean a good point about addison is that it's never been about being a good teammate with him uh off field issues with cease with maturity well that's the i mean that's the the thing that they're hoping and why it was on my list they needed to i don't know if it will i don't have the crystal ball like the other guy, but they, they, they needed to. They need those off-field issues to, uh, to stop happening. So, uh, Trone guy says to say he had a bad game and not say

the team also had a bad game is gasoline. Now, I mean, when did I not say the team had a bad game? I mean, the offensive line did give up some quick pressures, but I mean, I don't know, man, if you don't throw the, how am I supposed to know if the receivers had a bad game? bad game if you don't even throw it. I don't know. It's you, I, why are we debating this when the head coach told you everything about it? That's, that's my thing. The head coach, he said everything, he just, he told you. The whole thing, I played on the show the other day, go listen to it. In order for the receivers to be good in the game, they need the quarterback getting the ball out, they need it with anticipation, they need the right reads. That's why receivers go crazy, by the way.

The reason why receivers go crazy is if the quarterback's not getting them the football on time and with the right reads. And I think that's what's driving A.J. Brown crazy. So, yeah, I mean, I am not going to, when it comes to that particular game, I'm not going to blow smoke out it. It's not my job to do that. You could find other podcasts if you want people to patch you on the head. I'm going to tell you the truth. And that's the truth. There were issues.

If there were no issues, there would be no. debate. There would be no debate over who's starting against Philadelphia if it was everybody else's fault and there were no problems. But yes, Justin's school did give up a couple pressures. I agree with that. So, well, KFT, see, KFT, the sack rate has been also high for Wence. But Pittsburgh is not Atlanta.

And Wentz didn't have a very good game. So I don't know how that proves your point. I mean, Wentz held on to the ball way too long. How does that prove McCarthy was not to blame? You're trying, though. Everybody's trying, and I appreciate that. Look, I think you can just say, and it'll be okay in your brain. If you just say, J.J. McCarthy has a long career ahead of him.

and he has still a very good chance historically, believe it or not, the first two games of someone's career have not predicted their entire life. That'd be like saying that when you're in first grade, if you fall down on the playground, that you'll never be an Olympic athlete. Like, that's where we're at right now in the infancy of this thing. And look, I respect it. some of you want to protect McCarthy and I go to the game and against Cincinnati and I always look at the jerseys in front of me in the press box. There's a ton of JJ McCarthy jerseys

already. I mean, the fan base has bought into, and this is why I empathize with this. The fan base has bought into him and they saw him win a national championship. They heard O'Connell say he's a franchise quarterback. They saw him in that preseason game where he was so great. and then he was fine in this last preseason game. They followed along with our reports where we talked about him being good. They saw what he did against Chicago to come back and win. Like that was it all matching up. And then for one night against Atlanta, it didn't match up.

It didn't look like it was supposed to look. And I think there's cognitive dissonance there. But it's not a problem to look at where he's at right now and say, a lot of things have to be fixed to get back to where he needs to be. be to win games. But he's a first round pick for a reason, and the work ethic is part of it, the leadership element's part of it, who he is, how hard he's going to work to do it, and the fact that he's got to overcome something now.

And that's the NFL. That's how this works. If you're going to be a great quarterback, you better overcome stuff in order to do it. You have to. You have to. so that's that's what he's going to have to do here in the coming weeks and he also is going to have a better group to do it behind with Jordan Addison in there uh jd brown uh no there has not been anything new on van ginkle uh we're going to have to

see about that uh ron do you think B-flow or uh do you think it's B-flow or the Vikings that he wasn't extended, and then I don't know. I mean, I know that just logically speaking, we could probably take a guess, which would be if you sign an extension, think about like yesterday's prices aren't today's prices. If you sign an extension last summer, when you're still under contract, do you have more or less leverage? Less. If you sign a contract when you are a free agent, and you've just had a top 10 defense that gets the Vikings to the playoffs, that would be more. Also, the lawsuits going forward, by the way, at least from my understanding, the NFL was

trying to get it into arbitration, and the appeals court said no, so the discovery process could be very, very interesting coming up pretty soon. Anyway, well, look, you. You know, we're going to, we're going to find out about the quarterback situation. A lot of things have to happen with every team all the time with every quarterback. And in order to get to the playoffs with this team, if J.J. McCarthy goes in there, he's going to have games where he doesn't have five offensive linemen healthy, where he might not have a wide receiver, where the other team might be good.

And you have to find a way to win anyway. And that's what good veteran quarterbacks do all the time, as Carson Wentz did against the Cleveland Browns. lot going wrong there they were getting run on Gabriel got him in the end zone a couple times they're losing late in the game and veteran quarterback steps up has a great drive wins the game we're going to need to see a lot of that from McCarthy if he comes back right away and if he doesn't all it's going to say is that he needs more work and there's I can just go on with metaphors all night long you don't have to you don't have to defend him like is your child I mean like at some point we can say that if J.J. McCarthy doesn't play against the Eagles, it just means he needs more work.

It doesn't mean that it was just in school's fault or something. It just means he's going to need to get some technical and fundamental stuff down before KOC could trust him. And if he plays against Philadelphia, then that stuff, that means he's proven to KOC that that stuff is cleaned up and is corrected from the Atlanta game. And he's going to be ready to play. and then we see where this, we see where this goes. I mean, I've been in favor. That's actually the funny thing about the conversation is that's why I feel like the words get spun because I've been in favor of playing him against Philadelphia.

I've been in favor of him coming back and playing. So, look, I'm not going to continue to argue. You guys have made the same points over and over again. I'm not going to continue to argue about it's right there. It's right there. Just what KOC said yesterday, it's right there. he used examples, he laid it out, he said, that's what he's looking for in practice, that he's got to do the fundamental, mandatory things, which goes into the rhythm and timing of the offense,

seeing the reads, the decision making with the football, and the clear, clear evidence of the difference between Wentz and McCarthy in terms of getting rid of the football. He's going to have a better offensive line, but to say, say, oh, it was just all the game plan or something? I mean, that's just, that's just not. I thought it was a great game plan against the Browns, but the idea that he only used plays to get the ball out of the quarterback's hands against the Browns is, I just don't agree with that.

And against the Steelers, the throws were there. Go watch the tape. The throws were there. Wence didn't make them because he's a backup quarterback. And sometimes that happens. But it's going to tell us a lot. It's going to tell us a lot whether he plays or not. I'm in favor of it because I think that you do have to take the training wheels off and say,

this guy's your QB1. And no matter, you know, like, you might have to deal with other bad games where it doesn't go right and fight through them and find a way to win a bad game from your quarterback at some point. Find a way, you know, find a way to grind one out, get some turnovers, you know, something for the better good of this season, probably, and the long term. what I mean this season is that if McCarthy turns the corner, he's going to be better than what we've seen from Carson Wentz. But there might be some times you have to really, you know, struggle in order to get there. So I don't know what way is going to go.

I am going to live in reality of what we've seen so far. I know that not everyone wants to, but that I'll be doing because there's a debate. So I can only go with the information that is actual, you know, actually they're in front of me. But anyway, we'll see what happens there. So Dane Mizatani and I are going to record a pod tomorrow where we're going to go through the decisions that got us to this point.

Talk about whether the Viking Shev regrets or whether they're feeling good about certain decisions and how those will impact them going forward. So that'll be a fun show. Make sure you look out for that. Also, I recorded earlier today a really, really fun podcast with Sam Brookhouse from Sumer Sports. They just released the thing called Sumer Brain, where you type in an inquiry and it gives you an answer of analytics and data.

So if you ask, like, how often do the Vikings play zone coverage? It'll tell you. And it's a really fun tool. So we had a good time with that. That's going to be published tomorrow morning. And make sure that you are answering that Fanduel question of the day if you haven't already or you're rewatching this. The Vikings next four opponents on Fandul are all favored to win their division. Even the Ravens at plus 105, how many games of these next four to the Vikings need to win?

How many do you expect them to win? So, Jason says people make excuses for JJ. Every team has injuries. He needs to man up and find a way. Well, it's, look, it's not a, I don't think it's a matter of manning up. I think it's a matter of technicaling up. Is that a way to phrase that? It's a matter of getting experience, whether KOC thinks it's right to be in practice or being on the field.

It's got to be experience. When you're injured as much as he has been, you're not getting better. And that's really, that was really proven by him missing the entire year, which I think I thought, well, they did a lot and the VR stuff and all the work they put into it. Like, he should understand the offense. understanding the offense, it's so crazy. Understanding the offense in two and a half seconds gets you a win. Understanding it in three seconds gets you a loss. It's crazy this league, but that's all sports, right?

Think about skating and hockey. If you're the difference between the fastest skater and the slowest skater or an HL skater is probably not very big. And yet it's huge out on that actual ice. The same thing with, if you shoot for three, how crazy is this? If you make 30 out of 100 for three, you are not good. And you're probably in the G league. If you make 38 out of 100, you're like a star three point shooter.

That's all, it's all of sports. The margins are very, very tiny. And that's where he's got to close the gap. He's got the talent. He's got the work ethic. He has the physical ability to scramble and make plays. And I think he's got the leadership element of it. It's just that half second.

It's that half second. And you can close that by playing and by practicing and by getting ready to get out there. So I don't think it's like man up necessarily. It's get down those details. And then it's possible. So there you go. KFT, are they looking for to trade for a nose tackle? I don't think so.

I don't think so. I really think that they are okay with the defensive tackle play when the other guys are in there. against the run, whether it's Levi Drake or Jalen Redman, because if they really wanted that stout nose tackle guy, I think they would have called up Taki Taimani. I mean, they had him on the roster last year because he was that guy. They just seemed to not feel like that's a thing that they are going to use. And when you watch it, they, they don't really put a guy over the center directly very often. So, I mean, look, nobody likes a right up there with journeyman quarterbacks, are fullbacks and nose tackles

that weigh 340 pounds as my favorite thing long snappers, my favorite things in football. It just doesn't seem like they've ever been that way, which is a deviation from what the Patriots used to do. The Patriots love that guy. They love the Danny Shelton,

the Allen Branch, the Ted Washington. Well, he didn't play for the Patriots, but he played for Belichick in Cleveland. They love, oh, the Vince Wilfork, they were that guy. But this defense does not seem to be that. So, Eric says, do you think

Hawkinson will return from pre-injury because he looks slow now? I don't think that the burst has quite been there. But I also think over the last few weeks, we've seen a handful of plays where he did look like a top tight end. And it's funny, too, because the play

that O'Connell referenced, and this is why, you know, you can, you're allowed to chip and also make a play as a receiver. So it's not that he should be making plays still as a receiver, even if he has to chip. Like, guys have to chip all the time at the tight end position. That's one of their assignments. But that was, I think, a really nice play. He's had a couple of outroutes where he's created separation. So I'm not really sure whether it's just the circumstances, the fact they haven't thrown a ton of passes over all this year, the, you know, different quarterbacks. or if there's a step that's been lost there and won't come back. But, I mean, he's shown at least in two of the last three games to be an important weapon for Carson Wentz in some big situations.

But I don't think it's ever going to be quite the same after that. No, I don't think the burst is ever going to be quite the same. But he still should be effective. And he was big in those couple of moments on that final drive. a skywalking McCarthy comment on tie ingrub Dawkins has more production than Kenneth Grant and Mason Graham on a person that basis I've liked that dude really I really have even it's kind of funny uh sometimes in that first press conference now I've been fooled before in the first press conference after a guy gets

drafted sometimes a guy's a really good talker and you're like that guy's going to be great and then you know he's not but ingrib Dawkins has this kind of and I've talked to him a few times he has a seriousness about him but also intelligent and you could tell that he's mature even though he's still very young and kind of raw and he was talking about how he studied jonathan allen's tape and he thought it was so cool to be around him because like he was going to try to take everything away from him you know him that he could as a as a star player and that sort of stuff just sort of one of those guys that got it from day one and then the physical traits are phenomenal.

So that would be a crazy find if they could continue to play him regularly. And he's been playable so far. And for a guy that was a day three draft pick to be playable at this point, his career is impressive. But I mean, he could just go up and up. I mean, kind of the way we've seen from Levi Drake Rodriguez. And I think we all agree on this. You know, sometimes we get, I get bludgeoned over the head with they can't draft

and all that sort of thing. But we all agree that without hitting on. some guys from late rounds, undrafted free agents, like, you're going to have a tough go because you can't just sign everybody. And so finding a Xavier Scott to hold down a role, finding an Ingrid Dawkins, finding a Levi-Drake, finding a Jalen Redmond. Like, these are, these are important for them to have a good defense. I like what I've seen from him. Kenneth Grant, man, I really liked Kenneth Grant coming out. I think that Miami team is just a disaster, just a total wreck. Mason Graham looked pretty good. He did look pretty good.

KFT Dawkins has some serious pass rush potential. I know. Yeah, no, I agree. Yeah, I mean, you see the burst from him and you see the strength from him. The physical traits are there and then he's got some instincts. It's really surprising he didn't play more at Georgia, but I guess they have lots of dudes. Lots of dudes. Marauder, the defense is being run over is overblown.

They allowed 17 points last game. The offense was in the bottom of the league. our defense would be stout against the run, too. I don't think it would be stout as in, like, the personnel does matter. And what, like, that 32-yard run was when the score was 7 to 0 or something or 0. So that wasn't a matter of what the score was. And some of the other explosives for them and for Pittsburgh were not in situations where the defense was worn down or they were chasing.

There's concerns there. But overall, I think philosophically, you'd rather have a defense that scares opposing quarterbacks, that turns the ball over, that gets sacks, that gets pressures, and then sacrifices some in the run game. But when you look at the upcoming teams, they will need to stop the run or they're just going to lean on it. Detroit is the biggest one. But Green Bay will do it too.

So it's still a concern, but they need cashmen. I think they really need cashmen. Jason, there's our DeNeal Hunter comparison. Jason, are you playing the role of Andre Patterson, who loved comparing guys to DeNeal Hunter? But you're right, DeNeal Hunter did come in as a project and played very well early on and showed some flashes. Now, I mean, Ingram Dawkins, I like what I'm seeing from him.

Daniel Hunter is one of the all-time freaks to play in the league. I mean, all-time, ever. one of the biggest freaks. So I wouldn't set the bar quite there. But if you're talking about having this five-man rotation on a defensive line, that's really good. And that's why they did move on from Harrison Phillips. And I've seen that second guest.

And I've had that thought myself. But if Redmond is playing well and Levi Drake and Ty and Grub Dawkins, like you want these guys playing. And you don't want them sitting behind a veteran who has one year left on his contract. I think you want those guys in there. Yeah, no, Jason, you're right. No, I don't disagree with you. I just, when DeNeil's name comes up, I'm always like, oh, you can't put that on a guy,

but he's, I know what you mean. I know what you mean. He's a project and the early returns, even when a guy is a project, they should show something right away, and he is. That's going well for them. So, all right. Well, great chat, guys. This is a lot of fun, as always.

And take a look out for tomorrow. Two pods are coming out tomorrow. Sam Brookhouse from Sumer Sports It's a really fun show A lot of data we're breaking down Throwing footballs at each other And then I'm gonna We got the fantasy show

Actually I'm doing yeah I'll have three recorded And then I've got another one on Friday With Kevin Cole So yeah there's a lot coming up here Who said bye week? Hey no I didn't see no bye week A lot to talk about And then I will be live Sunday night too

After the first Well I guess it's after the afternoon games. I'm going to go live and break them down and talk about what it means to the Vikings and all that stuff. Fun times will be had. You guys have to take a bye week from football talk. A lot of stuff, a lot of different angles coming up still. And if you miss the conversation with Searles, if you want to hear a guy break down some offensive line play, go back and check that out. So, thanks everybody for a great conversation, as always, and we will see you very soon. This channel has got a lot coming out. So we'll catch you then. Football.