Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - The Vikings and Raiders definitely played a preseason game

Episode Date: August 15, 2022

Matthew Coller and Paul Hodowanic react to the Minnesota Vikings' preseason matchup with the Las Vegas Raiders. Breaking down the backup QB battle between Sean Mannion and Kellen Mond, two running backs emerged, the defensive line created pressure and a wide receiver seems to be a Mr. Mankato prospect. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

hello welcome to the vikings lost to the Raiders in the preseason. So we should panic about them losing their first preseason game. Probably not. But we do have a lot to talk about. Matthew Collar here, as always, along with Paul Hodowanek. And yeah, we just watched a preseason game. And you know what, Paul? It had everything that pre-season games have it had very very very very very vanilla schemes had some plays by some players had some overreactions on

twitter in fact some very very serious overreactions on twitter and it was wrapped up with a backup quarterback at the very end of the game in the fourth quarter delivering a strike to the end zone and thus igniting the fan base and excitement we have seen many of these things before but we do have a lot to discuss including i think i'm going to start off in the most interesting place for today which is the fact that sean Mannion came back in the game. They had said equal reps, and I guess they meant equal reps. And what I believe we can say about this is that the backup battle is yet to be determined still after this game. Your thoughts, Paul? Yeah, I'm not going to do the Kellen Mond has figured it out and he is easily the backup quarterback.

But I continue to be perplexed by Sean Mannion and just kind of the love for him in the organization. I think this game didn't change a ton for me. It just kind of reinforced it, that Sean Mannion's not that great of a quarterback. And I know people make the argument that he's steady and he could get you through. I just, going through the research, I'm not sure I agree. So just And I know people make the argument that he's steady and he could get you through. I just doing the,

going through the research. I'm not sure I agree. So just seeing him come back into the game, it's really like, what are we doing? This is a long time veteran. I don't know how much time he needs out there with this new offense. And so I am by no means a big Kellen Mon stand,

but I, I don't understand why you wouldn't have your second year quarterback. Just take all those reps while you throw Mannion in there just to put Mon back in there later. It was very, very wishy-washy and felt like they just wanted to say that they gave equal reps to say they gave equal reps rather than one, Mannion deserving more reps and two, it making much sense at all in terms of the development of both those guys. Yeah. Based on practice, you could see why they started Sean Mannion. And this is always a hard thing to

explain because so often we run into this, like the reporters are out there watching practice, a handful of fans who buy tickets for the day. And then we get to the preseason game and some other quarterback does something in the fourth quarter. And then everyone goes, why do they still have Mannion out there? Because they weigh practice more because it's him either working in with the ones like he did last Thursday and played much better than Kellen Mond or it's against the twos. And most of the twos are either recent draft picks who can play or their backups with some experience who can play. And then when you're in against the threes, and even if there is such a thing as the fours, that's when you get to players who will be not even probably in the CFL.

Like the guys that were out there for the Raiders, every pass was five seconds in the pocket. The guy is wide open and he makes a play. But when the game was a little bit faster, even in the second quarter, it was scrambling around looking for somebody in the end zone, throwing out of the back of the end zone, throwing high and late to Amir Smith-Marset. It was not atrocious by any means. I think for either quarterback, I think Sean Mannion actually in his third drive looked

quite good, ran some play actions, threw on time to the right receivers. We went into this thing thinking both of these quarterbacks are probably going to be a mess and it's going to be a struggle to even evaluate the wide receivers. And I don't think that that's what it was. And here, here's where I come away from this. As long as the preseason games are that where you can evaluate the receivers, the offensive linemen, it's not just such a struggle that you're going, come on, do anything. Like scoring 20 points, moving the ball, getting a couple of close,

unnecessary field goals, maybe just to practice running the field goal team out there. Again, nobody freak out. I don't think Kevin O'Connell's doing that with Kirk Cousins and Justin Jefferson and Delvin Cook in the game. He's not going to kick 18 yard field goals, I don't think. But to be able to move the ball on multiple drives and look competent is about the best you can ask for from these guys. And anything else is we're just talking about stuff that doesn't matter because whether Sean Mannion or Kellen Mond has to go into a

regular season game, It's probably not going to work out. And did you watch Jared Stidham and Nick Mullins or whoever the last guy was? Come on. Nobody has these great quarterbacks. If you've been watching a lot of these games, it's possible still at the end of this road that they could find someone else that they like a little bit better like they did last year with Mannion. But if this is what your quarterbacks look like through the preseason games, okay, that's fine. You need Kirk Cousins to play all the games. Here's the other thing too. And I mean, I know that people could say, look, you need one game sometimes like last year with Sean Mannion. I get that. But if your whole season rests on one game to whether you make the playoffs,

you're probably not that good either. So you really need Kirk Cousins to play all the games. So do 25 other teams. It's just the most easy thing to talk about. It's like the most glaring, flashing light of, hey, this is the backup quarterback competition and everyone is driven insane by Sean Mannion and they want Kellen Mond to win it,

but he hasn't been that good and whatever else. To me, it's just kind of like, just throw the ball to the receiver so we could see if some guys can play like Tristan Jackson, who had a good game today. That's kind of more how I look at it, but I know that that's like the thing that everyone wants to talk about is to evaluate these guys through the preseason games. Yeah. I mean, and it's fair. I mean, you want a competent backup quarterback that can potentially do those

things. I know regardless, they're probably going to struggle if any of them have to come into a game, but I mean, Sean Mannion's Owen three as a starter in his career hasn't, I think he's averaged like 160 yards. I had this pulled up.

Yeah. 161 yards per game. When he's a starter, he's averaged like 160 yards. I had this pulled up. Yeah. 161 yards per game. When he's a starter, he has one touchdown, four turnovers. So it's, it's not great for Sean Manning. And that's what you're getting. That's probably what you'd get from, from Kellen Mond as well. I think my biggest gripe is less, wow. Like it's not, it's not mom looked really good. Mom should be starting, uh, or it should be the definitive backup. I just don't see why he shouldn't be getting the bulk of the playing time, just given the spots they're at in their careers. We pretty much know Sean Mannion is going to be that guy.

80% chance Mon is also a Sean Mannion type backup player in terms of when he comes in, they're probably not winning a lot of games. Mannion's appeared in, I think, 15 career games. 14 of them have been, the final score has been decided by at least 15 points. So that's when he's coming for garbage time. And that's when on both sides. So he doesn't come in when it's an important game at any point. Like he hasn't done that throughout his career.

Like he doesn't have experience doing that. So I think generally my thought was just, I don't know why you're taking Mond out there. And I don't know why Mond shouldn't have kind of the leg up in this job race just to have any sort of, I guess it just comes down to what they want for their backup quarterback. Do they want someone where they know exactly what's going to happen, uh, every time? And I think that's, you kind of know what Sean Mannion is going to do play in and play out Mond is a wild card he's throwing solid passes today and then he's scrambling around just looking past five wide open wide receivers like he is the volatile you're getting a lot of ups

you're getting a lot of downs and so i would want him to play more to hopefully smooth some of those things out so you could at least say you have an average backup. Cause right now I don't think you have an average backup behind Kirk. I don't think either one of those guys creeps to that level at this point. And Kirk's been healthy. So it hasn't been a priority, but if you're a contending team, it's a spot where you want to at least have someone with some sort of

competence. And I don't know if they have that at this point. And so I think the best path forward is trying to see if Mond can develop into that. Cause I don't know if they have that at this point. And so I think the best path forward is trying to see if Mond can develop into that because I don't think at this point Mannion's ever going to be that. Yeah, I think that's fair. But I also think that when you go through

several weeks of practice and one guy is better than the other guy and the one guy does have experience playing in actual games and a lot of experience in this offense. I mean, he was with the Rams since 2015. I think it just drives people crazy. Anytime an older backup veteran player who clearly has no upside is not the guy versus

the what could be, but the what could be of Kellen Mann, probably the ceiling there is could maybe someday with lots more practice be a backup. I mean, that's how it looks on a day-to-day basis. So I can see why the coaching staff would say we have to play Sean Mannion here because he might end up getting in games with the first team offense, the first team center, the second team wide receivers. He might actually have to do that at some point if for whatever reason Kirk Cousins isn't in, if Kellen Mond does not take this job away from him and this game you could split into two parts with Kellen Mond the first part was very shaky and kind of all over the place and there were

some good throws and there were some pretty rough plays and then the second part is this the Kyle Slotering of the fourth quarter where know, the McLeod Bethel Thompson or John David booty, like the, the number of guys that have run through here, Jake Browning, even who like showed something maybe against poor competition, but there's not really anything there when they're playing against even slightly better competition in vanilla defenses, no less. And, and so I don't think you can walk out of this and go, oh yeah, the upside guy, you got to play him. I mean, I would call it like a flicker, but you wouldn't say, oh, he just ran away with this job over Sean Manning. And it's always going

to come down who they trust to run the plays that they call. I mean, that's the biggest thing. That's why Manning still has a job. I know how upset people get about this, but it truly is not different than most other teams. And I don't know how many different ways I can say it. It's like, folks, Tyrod Taylor's pretty good. Teddy's pretty good. Case Keenum's pretty good. That's it.

That's all the backup quarterbacks who can do anything. So if Sean Mannion has to play a quarter of a game, cause Kirk gets banged up or something, can he at least try to run the plays that they call? And that's basically the, the, where they have it. And can he run the practice and the practice squad offense or the, you know, the, the, to let the defense prepare, like that's all they're looking for. So it's nice for Kellen Mond that he had a strong ending here. And so that makes me think the battle's not over and he's going to go into this week against San Francisco and have a chance to joint practice against them and show that he can do something and show that he's making progress and that he has confidence from how this game ended

and then have another good game, which he may start to really do the equal, equal, equal reps thing. But I mean, just at the end, I kind of end up with Twitter loves this. It cannot get enough of a backup quarterback competition, but I have not moved a single inch after watching today that if Kirk Cousins goes down for more than a single game, a single quarter, your season is over and it would be for almost every team in the entire NFL end of story. So, you know, you can get like worked up that they're going to play Mannion instead of Mond, if that ends up how it is, but there's just other things on the field today that made more difference that could make more difference in the long run

than this backup quarterback competition that really doesn't matter. So there's a part of me that because it's fun to have everybody yelling at each other about it. I also think it's kind of unfair to Sean Mannion. Like the guy's been in the leagues since 2015. He certainly is doing something right. Sean McVay wanted him. Gary Kubiak wanted him. So far, Kevin O'Connell has wanted him uh clearly the guy has enough talent to be a backup in the league for a long time and people act like he's just totally incapable of dropping back and throwing a pass meanwhile Mond you know against the fourth string like here he comes with a couple good throws and it's like throw Manion out of town come on I. I mean, it's just, I don't know. Some of the, some of the dialogue here, Paul is just like so epically preseason that you've even passed me.

I'm like, okay, red flag, red flag. I, I, or white flag. I'm waving the white flag. I'm just, I can't, I can't do this anymore. In fact, even spending the first 13 minutes on the backup quarterback situation is just like, it do i have to do i have to because kirk needs to play all the games still you want to go to something else then yes let's do it for god's sake yes okay all right i'll go to this the vikings have many good running backs uh like what what did lebron say not one not two not three probably three actually no maybe four three and a half uh yeah but i i think that what ty chandler showed today was legit that that's what it's looked like in practice very quick he can play uh kenny wong woo we've been talking

about that all off season and made some catches out of the backfield and showed some explosiveness. And now here's the thing I discovered today, though, Paul, tell me if you knew this existed before. There are Alexander Madison haters. Were you aware that there are Alexander Madison haters? Not until they came into your replies, because I was I was seeing you go at him. I didn't realize that. I mean, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that a backup running back, someone, someone has to hate on him, but I don't know why you would hate on Alexander Madison, but I guess they're out there. They're out there.

A lot of people are out there with a lot of opinions on the internet, but there's a common thing that's asked about. So I'll get your opinion on it. I think mine's pretty clear. I don't think there's any reason to even slightly consider trading Alexander Madison because he's a proven running back who has been good, if not very good at times, filling in for Delvin Cook.

He's experienced. He can do all the things they need to do. Underrated at catching the ball to the backfield. Good pass protector when he's got to be in there. And even though he is not Barry Sanders, he can plow through the holes that they create and that's it i mean like that's what you need for a backup running back he's proven he's fine i don't see any reason to have a conversation about moving him just because the younger guys did better no and i don't know what you'd get for uh backup running back and alexander madison who has

flashed but has just one year remaining on his deal i think the best thing you can do is just have him in his similar role and because you have these guys you're probably not resigning him uh next offseason and that's kind of the best that you're doing now with running backs. Ideally, you're probably not paying them big money, and especially to a running back who hasn't ever started in for a full-time capacity like Alexander Madison. But to just dismiss him and everything that he's done for the last three years because you saw Ty Chandler break out a run for 20 yards. I mean, come on.

I don't see why you would get rid of the depth there that you have to then go to three running backs, two of which have never started in an NFL game or had significant carries. Uh, and Alexander Madison, anytime Dalvin cook gets hurt, which is kind of an inevitability at this point, like he's going to miss a game for a hamstring injury or something like that, or a couple. And Alexander Madison fills that workhorse role much more than Kenny Wong who does much more than Ty Chandler would. And so if you were going to get some immense value for Alexander Madison, I'd say, yeah, go for it. Those other two guys can probably

cover for you, but I don't think you're really getting anything for him at this point. So the best thing you do is just let him play out uh this season kind of do exactly what you've been doing uh and then you'll have two capable running backs next year when he's most likely not on the team to step right in and you feel good about it but i think that's all you really need to have at this point uh use wong and ty chandler and kind of gadget roles, uh, and get them kind of mixed around. Like you saw their speed today.

And I think that's, again, you can be kind of when, when they're going up against third stringers, like Ty Chandler is, it's kind of hard, but what you look for is, did he look explosive? And that's a immediate. Yes. Like, did he look like he was outclassing the other third stringers that were out there? Yeah, he did. And so I think that's what you're looking for when you're looking for how do the third stringers look like?

Do they clearly look like they need to probably move up to whatever the second string is? Like, do they look like they're kind of playing JV? Ty Chandler looked really good. And so you move him up. You don't say he's the next backup running back. You don't say he's the next Dalvin Cook. So, no, I think Alexander Madison should stay right where he is. I don't see why you just deplete depth for the sake of it. Just to give some young guys, some run, save their carries,

save the hits that you're putting on their body and use it the next couple of years when they're still on rookie deals and Dalvin cooks getting up there. Like there's no reason not to use Madison for everything he's got, especially if you don't plan on resigning. Right. And I think with both of the starters or starter and immediate backup with Delvin cook and Alexander Madison,

there's questions about their future. And so this is a good sign for you for potential future running backs. And we know that they don't have to be highly drafted. It can be a guy like Wong Wu, who's a fourth round pick or Chandler, who's a fifth round pick. And we know that Wong Wu, who's already been in games, has a special playmaking ability and can flash. But with Chandler, now we have at least the sense, but also like what did Denny Green say? Like don't crown them or if you want to crown them, then crown

them. But like folks, I mean, we'll look at the competition we're talking about here. It's the Raiders' second team. The Raiders already don't have a good defense. And I will give credit where it's due, though. The second team offensive line specifically was moving bodies. And I think that after today, it will not slow down Ed Ingram's chances to win the right guard job. Jesse Davis didn't look that good. Ingram and the offensive line with the second team looked quite good.

Just pushing a lot of people, a lot of space to run. It's not always going to be how it is. So you can say that what you saw today was good from both of those guys, specifically Wong Wu, who had a little bit of an injury. You don't want to see that from the track runner type. He comes back, looks good, takes a few hits. He's fine. And then Chandler immediately flashes like that's exactly what you want. And there's no rule against getting multiple running backs hurt in a season. It could definitely happen. So the more of those guys that you have, the better. But I think if we were talking about the outstanding player of the day, it would be Ty Chandler, who immediately came in and said, folks, you've got another very talented running back playing for the Minnesota Vikings. One thing that they have not failed to draft was players like that. And it's not like an offensive lineman where you

want to like get him reps in the first seasons. Like you're worried about development. Like if Ty Chandler doesn't run a lick this year, he can come in next year and I guarantee he's going to look like he just did. You don't have to worry about stunting any running back development growth. So I wouldn't worry about that either. Right. I think as far as the running back room, you just like already felt very confident in it and it just goes to another level after today. Now, as far as some other places, what stuck out to me was kind of who played, who didn't play. They did want to play the first team offensive line for a couple series, but not a whole lot of other starters. Lewis Seen didn't really have anything that we could speak of.

That's the life of a safety sometimes. And it's honestly kind of been the life of Lewis Seen so far throughout his practices that the coaches would know if he's doing the right thing on a lot of different plays. But from the sideline perspective, it's been hard for us to see because the offenses look so bad when Kirk Cousins is not out there that there haven't been a lot of targets or pass breakups or interceptions like that from Lewis seen. He plays just a quarter quarter cam bynum played along with him uh we really don't know where those two stand still it seems like cam bynum still ahead of lewis scene today didn't change any of that a little bit rough for andrew booth jr getting called for

multiple penalties on one play both pass interference and a face mask but again he was not in for a long time the guy that stuck out, though, for being in quite a bit was actually Cam Dantzler because Patrick Peterson did not play as a veteran, but Dantzler was all the way into the second quarter. So it wasn't even the like KJ Osborne treatment of let's get you out there for a series because we need a wide receiver to do something. But trust me, you're wide receiver three. He kind of got a lot of reps

and i wondered about something that kevin o'connell talked about the other day about dansler and technique and like different techniques and made me wonder if like he is doing what he's being asked to do by the coaching staff which i think was an issue with mike zimmer and one of the reasons that he trusted wrongly Bashad Breland more than Cam Dantzler. And so for Dantzler to play a lot, it kind of raised an eyebrow a little bit for me. Yeah, just because you mentioned Breland, I was looking at the 2021 PFF grades. Bashad Breland had the number, the third best PFF grade for the Vikings last preseason. So if you want to just remember how much preseason might not matter, uh, Brashad

brilliant was one of the best graded players in all of preseason last year for the Vikings. And then here he is now. Yeah. I think that's a really salient point about Cam Dantzler. And I think for the most part, we just kind of assumed that he has that number two cornerback spot. And I think he probably still does. I would assume this is just, we'd want to push him to continue to be better and probably not feel like he's just safe there and he has that thing locked up and we want him to keep improving and keep working I've said it before this is when this is the year for Cam Dantzler where you see if he really is going to like if he's going to be a good cornerback it's probably going to start this year in him taking off and him showing what he needs to show and to do it in a new scheme with a new um kind of regime and he

does that again that's just another feather in your cap that you've gone to different coaching staffs you've continued to play well you've won the support of both those coaching staffs as a young cornerback not an easy thing to do and so I think what you're seeing is maybe this staff has slightly less confidence in him than the previous one did or at least the previous one just didn't have an option uh and now this team with a little bit more depth has some options and Cam Dantzler isn't just the only thing that they can throw out that's a moving body that's actually going to stay with a wide receiver like maybe they feel confident in some other guys i'm not looking too much into the fact that he played there i would still think he's kind of right behind pat pete there like you said andrew booth didn't exactly

wow you to the point where you're putting him in uh and feeling like he could be a great number two but yeah i think it's noteworthy that a guy we assume to be a starter is playing into the second quarter and seemingly hasn't earned that veteran. You don't have to play much in the preseason treatment like they want to see him out there. And I didn't see him in particular get any bad plays or anything specific from the first watch. But yeah, I mean, it's interesting. Yeah. I think that what we've seen here early on is that, you know, the Zimmer coaching staff is do, you know, did a lot of things that the O'Connell coaching staff is also doing, which is maybe not fully and completely buying into Cam Dantzler, which is playing CJ ham, which is starting Sean Mannion in a preseason

game and having the third string quarterback throw a bunch of passes in the fourth quarter that look good. You know, like these are all things that we've been through before. And I think that, you know, maybe a common thing throughout just this entire offseason was like maybe they really do have a focus on the atmosphere and the culture and all that. But the actual decisions in a lot of ways, there wasn't much that the previous coaching staff could do with some of these things. And they might still have the same questions. Like the Ed Donatell defense might still have some questions about Cam Dantzler. And even though he had good numbers last year, there were certainly times where it was not great. And there were certainly some plays, I think, against backup quarterbacks that maybe

helped those target numbers and things like that, that you're really trying to look long-term, like is his technique going to match up with what they want him to do? So I don't think that it means necessarily that there's a battle between him and Booth Jr. We would have to see Dantzler taking second team reps and Booth Jr. taking first team reps to say, this is a battle. This is what's going on here that there's a chance that Booth Jr. could win this job. And like you said, Jared Stidham did not give them any chances to work with passes. Most of the time, it was just throwing into the middle of the field and having linebackers kind of bungle whatever was going on and guys getting open and running and then being tackled by corners or safeties. There just weren't a lot of plays where you could say, oh, one-on-one, this guy went out there for the Vikings and made a play

as a corner or a safety. We didn't see a lot lot of that but speaking of the linebacker position as has been the case in practice so I was not shocked by it but Brian Asamoah was the first guy in after Troy Dye so Troy Dye was out there with Jordan Hicks Eric Hendricks did not play I could see why Hicks would want to get maybe some reps with a new team new system and so forth but Brian Asamoah is the first linebacker out there, not Blake Lynch, not Chaz Surratt. And I think that it probably says, A, that they like what they've seen in practice from Asamoah, who made a great play at the goal line on a run where he tracked the guy down. And his sideline-to-sideline ability is clearly there in terms of speed but um also

sort of says that the chas surratt experiment probably is just never going to leave the ground and uh blake lynch who the previous staff really liked might not exactly fit here that they really seem to want brian asamoah to um to take this job yeah i think i mean it would have been easy to not have him right away and say, you're a rookie, like we're going to play some of the veterans there first. But obviously he gets the first crack after Troy Dye. I think that kind of shows exactly where they want him to be and where he is. You saw his explosiveness, again, with that kind of toss to the outside.

He breaks through a couple blockers, kind of sheds a blocker or two and makes a nice tackle. I mean, you could see it on every play kind of his speed and he got into the backfield a couple times overran a couple kind of run run fits but I thought in general he looked good and again he showed that like type of athletic ability that you can just tell when you see it on a football field in live game action, like that guy can play and he can at least athletically stacks up with a lot of the guys in the NFL. And so I think the fact that a rookie is already ahead of some of those veterans in terms of when he's coming into the game tells you a kind of

where this is going to be. Like, I think Brian Osmo is clearly ahead of the Blake Lynch and Chaz Sarats. Cause I think in general, normally those guys would probably get run first before you give way to a rookie, like with the Jesse Davis, um, at Ingram situation. Like it wouldn't be at all surprising that I, at Ingram overtakes him by the end of training camp,

but it's also not surprising that you give the veteran the first crack at it. That's not what's happening in the linebacker position. And so I think awesome will look good and could easily be there right in that third, fourth string spot. Obviously, Troy Dye started the game, but looked a little rough. But yeah, I think Asamoah played about how you'd want. And in terms of Chaz Surratt was kind of supposed to be that really athletic linebacker last year. I think they've decided, no, Brian Asamoah is just a better version of that type of player that the Vikings were going for last year. I think they've decided, no, Brian Osmo is just a better version of that type of player that the Vikings were going for last year. And I mean, they went out and got another chess or

a tight player in the, in the draft. And so I think that tells you, they probably didn't love where they were at with chess Surat. And thus far that's kind of come to fruition because he really hasn't seen any meaningful playing time. Right. I mean, there's been quite a few of those linebackers taken and they again did something that the previous coaching staff had done, which is take a linebacker in the middle rounds, but they're looking for this one to work out. And also it just makes you wonder, and again, like not anointing him after today, but it does make you wonder into the future, how much longer is Eric Hendricks here and what is his contract situation and everything else?

Because even going into this off season, we talked about like, there's a possibility that even Eric Hendricks could get moved. He didn't, they stayed with him, but if his play declines at all, or they just feel like they want to restructure his contract and he doesn't want to do it or whatever number of scenarios, Brian Asamoah might be the next man in line. And the very, very first impression was pretty good today. I would not say that he's going to get a green or a gold jacket or anything. Green jacket either, probably.

I mean, I don't know how good he is as a golfer. So we're not putting a jacket on him yet. But as far as the linebacker depth, you wanted to see him look good because that's a position where if either of the starters goes down, like you said about Troy Dye, like that experiment. I noticed that Troy Dye actually has wristbands on now, which is a good idea for him because he had no wristbands or gloves. And he looked like a long snapper before right but now that he doesn't nothing has changed so you need somebody that might have some long-term

potential in there to possibly be that guy if either uh jordan hicks or eric hendricks goes down both of them do have pretty good health records but at least you have someone there now as far as things that also looked good, I thought that the pass rush looked quite good. Again, this could be because of Jared Stidham or backup linemen or whatever it might be, but Armand Watts got to the passer. Harrison Phillips kind of got a cleanup sack, but I'm not really too interested in watching the starters when they're out there. They're just sort of taking reps, trying not to get hurt. But Armond Watts is a guy that's got to prove himself as a really actually important piece of the rotational rush because they don't have another interior rusher. And then I thought Patrick Jones actually looked quite good. Maybe it was their best player out

there on defense. And that's a guy who sort of shined in the senior bowl and then got drafted, gets in the game just a little bit, but not a whole heck of a lot last year. Didn't show anything and has been taking the second team reps and getting the rotational snaps pretty much for the entire training camp. And I think we saw why here that there was some juice on the other side of that. You know, the other guys, Luigi Villain, Andre Mincy, and a generous Robinson was on the field. I noticed this on the very last play of the game, which kind of tells you not seeing a whole lot there of what they're looking for. And that's a guy who was drafted in the fourth round

last year. So Patrick Jones, I think gets the sort of gold star for an emerging player for like naming standout players of the game here for Vikings Raiders. But I really thought that he stood out and that's another thing they need so badly that DJ want them. We kind of know what he is. He might improve a little bit, but probably not a ton. They need backup players at those positions because 17 games of Hunter and Smith seems like a big ask. Right. And even when they're playing just a rotational pass rusher that can rotate in on third downs

and kind of put some pressure on them if they want to go a little heavier. Like when even when they had to Neil Hunter and Everson Griffin, it's been a couple of years since they had a guy that they could kind of rotate off from the bench and you feel really good about them coming in to rush the passer, like maybe late Brian Robison potentially. Like they haven't had a ton of these guys that can give you some juice in the pass rush, and I think Patrick Jones' profile is that. And I think in terms of a second-year player that's a mid-round guy

that didn't get much work, he's kind of showing the typical progression you'd want for a guy that seems like he'll have at least some impact this season or can be one of those rotational depth pieces like I think if you're charting the progression progression of one of those guys Jones is kind of right where you'd want him to be right now flashing in the second team role and wouldn't be completely lost. If one of those guys went down for a week or two and could at least hold his own, not be a complete liability. And then when they're all healthy,

can be a situational guy that you go to at certain spots and can generate a couple of pressures. Like, I think that's exactly what you want to see finally from one of these mid round defensive linemen that Spielman invested in over and over and over again. I think Patrick Jones and what he's shown shown so far is kind of that outcome that you were looking for there and so I think it's been encouraging it was encouraging today it's been encouraging

everything that you've been saying from practice and what we've been seeing so I think he's kind of taking he seems to be that clear-cut guy over a generous Robinson or over the Luigi Villain or over the Mincy's or Julian Taylor, some of those veterans that have come in. Patrick Jones seems like he's kind of the clear cut option for them there. Right. There's at least hints of that anyway. I mean, we have certainly in the past been through the, oh, this guy gets some sacks in the preseason games.

Eddie Yarbrough was a preseason star for sure. And that was why the Vikings ended up with him, because in Buffalo, he had done so well against the Vikings in a preseason game that they eventually signed him. Well, that didn't exactly bear fruit. But what you're looking for is somebody somebody and this goes for the next position we'll talk about as well which is wide receivers you're looking for someone to show what they've also shown in practice uh if it's practice that's more important than it is for the preseason games there's no doubt about it but you don't want someone to do well in practice and then just

melt when they get out there and you also don't want them to struggle in practice and then just melt when they get out there. And you also don't want them to struggle in practice. And then, oh, well, the guy shines when he's playing against the other team's worst players. We don't want that either. And I think so far, Patrick Jones has been matching up those two things of playing pretty well in practice and getting those second team reps, showing them what they want from that backup position at outside linebacker slash edge rusher, and then did it again today in a single game. And of course, there's a ways to go in the offseason, but it looks like he's kind of locked into that spot along with DJ Wanham.

The other thing was, now we have an emerging potential Mr. Mankato, and sorry, it's not Zach Davidson, because Zach Davidson did not get in until the twos were out there. It was actually Ben Ellefson and Johnny Munt, who took all of the, quote, starter reps, which I think says something about where they think that Zach Davidson is, that he is behind the others. He's made some plays in practice. He's had some drops in practice.

I also think that mastering the offense and knowing this scheme and knowing what he's supposed to do is something that we can't really tell. So we just watch, Oh, he caught it or something, right? Oh, he had three catches in practice. He must be doing fine, but all the other plays we don't really know about. So, um, you know, that thought that was kind of a clear message to Zach Davidson that he's behind. Uh, And as far as the wide receivers go, Tristan Jackson is a sudden emerging Mr. Mankato candidate because, I'm sorry, I'm really like moving around here trying to escape the sun coming through my window and I cannot find a good spot to not be in the sun.

I'm sorry. So if my microphone sounds like I'm shuffling it, I am. Okay, I still can't escape it. There's a window open. I'm a window like push you out the entire room you're gonna yeah i know right i'm just i'm just gonna have to lay on the floor eventually to do this podcast but uh anyway trish and jackson season he's made a few catches he's emerged as a second teamer and he was out there before a lot of other guys that are pushing he was out there before uh albert wilson before jaylen nailer before dan chisna are pushing. He was out there before Albert Wilson, before Jalen Naylor,

before Dan Chisna. I mean, he was getting out there right next to BC Johnson and Amir Smith Marset, and then makes a nice catch at the goal line, almost scores a touchdown. He was the guy that Kellen Mann completely missed in the back of the end zone when he was open. And there were a couple other plays that he made as well i mean if you're looking at the receiver room you've got your guys that are clearly going to make it which is jefferson thelin osborne smith marset and i think bc johnson as well i think that's like your locked in guys room at the end for maybe one more depending they could also keep dan chisna as a pure special teamer doesn't really look like there's much of a chance of him being a real wide receiver but I thought that Tristan

Jackson sort of you know a little bit of a coming out party here today yeah and I think it shows him and Muntz obviously getting all the first team tight end reps with Irv Smith out that O'Connell has found some comfort in some of the guys he's known before this just with Tristan Jackson being on the Rams practice squad before, obviously having familiarity with him, having familiarity with Munt like that as much as some of the new draft picks or some of the guys that you're just inheriting. Like there's a reason you went out and grabbed guys that you had familiarity with. And I think we're seeing that with Tristan Jackson showing some stuff.

I think he looked pretty solid out there and explosive. I mean, again, we're getting wrapped up and talking about who could be the sixth or fifth wide receiver. So, you know, I don't know if this is an Alexander Holland situation that we're in right now. It might be, but I think notably if he makes the team over someone like Jalen Naylor or even a veteran like Albert Wilson, who obviously makes a couple, a couple of touchdown grabs late in the game.

I think that's noteworthy. That's a cool story. And that shows that they believe like it's much easier to just take Jalen Naylor and put him on the team as a draft pick and say, he's, we invested in him young guy. We're going to keep him. If you pick Tristan Jackson over that that guy if you pick him over albert wilson uh then that's kind of you're sticking your neck out for a guy that you went and got that you had familiarity with so but i think right now he's kind of showing us that he was

deserving of that spot and kind of rightfully is telling you that kevin o'connell liked him there and continues to like him here. Again, just like you can't get wrapped up much about the backup quarterback competition. I can't get too wrapped up into the six wide receiver is I've gotten way too emotionally invested before. And so I will not be, I will not be swayed here. But yeah,

I thought, I thought he looked solid. He was targeted three times. That was tied for second most on the team in terms of who got targets today. Uh, and I thought he looked good when he got those chances. So that's, again, that's just what you want to see from these guys late in, in games, but yeah, I thought he looked good. So what looked bad to you? I mean, we talked about the backup quarterbacks, which were not going to do anything that we didn't know they were going to do. But was there anything that, cause I thought that for the most part,

aside from the third team run defense, which is like, do I really want to bother talking about that? Aside from that, I don't think there was anything to me where you went, Oh no, this looks really rough. And part of that is just that we have most of the solutions already

on the team, like that you went into training camp with a veteran team and okay. Well, not a negative, but I got, I have a point that I do want to make that they came away with no injuries so far as we know that nobody came out hurt. And that is a huge thing. Like get through the first hurdle. I mean, like Drake London went down, Zach Wilson went down, like don't have any of hurt. And that is a huge thing. Like get through the first hurdle. I mean, like Drake London went down, Zach Wilson went down, like don't have any of those. And they didn't have any of those. So that's a point worth making that seems important. But as far as like what you do or don't have on this roster, we kind of already know everyone's resume and we're not aside from the rookies and someone like tristan jackson we're not really focusing on

x battle or y battle you've got the right guard that's still kind of out there chris reed didn't play today so we didn't get to see him at center or to see if they would have slipped them into the first team austin schlottman looked okay but i just can't get around to making some sort of case when he's not even definitively the second center and is splitting with Chris Reed. So there's no real argument there. It really is kind of like we didn't move the needle a ton, but what we got was a ton of like, okay, I thought there was something maybe there during practice and it kind of looks like there is, but from mostly outside, I would say Patrick Jones and Arman Watts, mostly players that won't

have a ton of consequence on the season. And I think that it goes almost to the theme of the entire Vikings off season, which is what the team wants is quieter, the better. If the only thing that is going on as far as big talking points and discussion is who's going to be the backup quarterback. And, you know, we'll see if Cousins comes back healthy on Tuesday. I assume that he will from his COVID absence, but that made no difference today without Jefferson and Thielen playing. I just cannot imagine that Kirk Cousins would have played today.

Maybe he takes one series in the second preseason game. If he's like feeling good i i don't know but aside from that i walked away there was nothing i walked away from and went like oh wow this this guy the only thing i would say is maybe that amir smith marstet is still very amir smith marseille where he makes one play where you're like whoa and then he makes another play and you go oh like i mean the punt return was a little shaky. The catch over the middle, he kind of bobbled it. He wasn't able to bring in one throw that went his way from Kellen Mond.

Maybe the timing was a little bit off on that play. But I've always looked at it, at least so far, that B.C. Johnson was going to be the fourth wide receiver. And I'm kind of stuck with that. And nothing happened today to change that, but I don't know. Was there anything, um, did you, did you panic when Kevin O'Connell ran on second down and long? I was going to mention another second and 10 run guys. I,

I mean, former, former co-host, Sam Ekstrom had to just be just very mad at that. I, I, I, I don't know for sure, but I imagine he's seething somewhere seeing that no i think that was probably more about sean manion being in the game then that's our game script uh same thing with the like i would have probably liked them to try for one of those fourth downs that they just kicked field goals on just to run some fourth down plays um i don't like i guess maybe you want to like get your special teams out there and kind of get in that flow a little bit um I don't know why you're not just trying for things on fourth down

and seeing what you can do but I can't bring myself to get too upset about any of that I thought there weren't really again there wasn't really anything I was like oh like the Andrew Booth one or two plays you could tell he was a rookie uh Troy Dye a couple plays you were like I don't love him as third linebacker but again nothing that I felt super passionate about I guess the only thing that maybe rises to a little bit of like was just the way that the first team offensive line played I don't think it was that inspiring from that group um I don't think Jesse Davis looked great I don't think Garrett Bradbury looked great, but I think we kind of expected some of that. I was just, I was, I thought they did good process

in terms of the just kind of stacking guards on top of each other and just hoping that one sticks, but Jesse Davis didn't look great. Chris Reed didn't play Austin Schlottman. Who knows? I guess maybe you're going to hit on the Ed Ingram one and that'll be the one that saves the rest of them because all you need is one. But I think we've seen that in practice. None of them have looked great. And I didn't think any of them looked great in this game either. And that just, again, makes you then concerned about the offensive line spot. So I think that was really the only thing where I wished I saw more. Otherwise, nothing really rose to any level of concern. And I would also say that from the rookies' perspective, nobody really shined outside of maybe one play for Asamoah. And I think Ingram probably with the second team was moving some bodies there on those big runs. But if rookies don't make a big impact, then welcome to the NFL. Because on draft night, we always go, well, you just slot

this guy in here and this guy's going to push this guy out of a job. And then the first, second, third and fourth round picks are all going to be good. And they're going to fit. And then you get to the actual preseason games and it's like, well, they're all kind of with the second team. And that's where we're at right now. And it might take time before Louis seen can get into the game as a starter he might begin his career as a third safety and we'll see this week i think this week is going to be the deciding factor because after that these guys start game planning like the fans stop being at practice they start their game plan for week one and everybody starts going uh but as we're

just going through all the basic install stuff, it might be that they have to play Bynum to start. It wouldn't be the first time. And also it wouldn't be, you know, atypical of coaches as Mike Zimmer was often doing where he was being a little slower with the rookies. And that might be the case with this group as well. So everybody kind of showed where they've been at. But if you were hoping for this, like, oh my gosh, draft class is just taking over the

world here for the Vikings. You didn't get that. I didn't expect that. So I wouldn't add that to like a negatives list. I never expect that on draft night when you and I are there, I'm saying, hey, these guys are probably going to need to develop. And we got to think two years out with all these players. And maybe Louis seen can this or that.

Maybe the right guard can start. You know, we usually say stuff like that where on draft night, it seems like some cold water, but then by the end of the first preseason games, like, Oh yeah. Okay. Well, that's kind of all true. So, um, you know, anyway, I think, uh, Oh, you want to make one more point? One thing that was upset with none of the punters punted 182 yards and someone did this weekend that's all i'm going to say someone punted 82 yards out of the back of the end zone out of the end zone you're not supposed to do that that's doesn't help still a net of 62 yards which is longer than any punt that a vikings punter had today i know you have not let go that the vik Vikings did not draft the punt.

God, we'll see if he makes the team. Their punter is pretty good. So he might be out there. Maybe he's, he's going to be available for the Vikings to pick up if they don't keep him versus the other guy. So anyway,

which is funny because now I can't remember how to say his name because you were saying it wrong. And his mom yelled at you on Twitter. So now I can't remember. It's, name because you were saying it wrong. And his mom yelled at you on Twitter. So now I can't remember. It's, it's a Risa or a Reza. Yeah. I,

I don't want to get, I don't want to get caught in the crosshairs of the punk God's mom again. So I'm, I'm really happened by the way that really happened that she, I guess must've been name searching her son or maybe. I think, I think Jonathan put her son or maybe. I think, I think Jonathan put out a social clip and I said his name wrong and I don't, and now I don't even remember how I said it then,

if I had been saying it wrong the whole time or if it was just a one-time thing. So he's just punt God at this point. Yeah. So inferior punting for the Vikings. I understand. Well, okay.

So there's our breakdown again next week. They'll battle against the 49ers. We'll have coverage. We'll have guests. Got a really, really fun guest coming toward the end of the week that I'll just tease and not tell you what it is. If you are, by the way, if you're watching this on YouTube, we're now allowed to put the full shows on YouTube, which is awesome. So make sure that if you're watching this maybe for the first time,

I don't always sit in the sun and look like I'm getting blasted by lasers, but sometimes that happens. But subscribe then if you're watching this on YouTube. And also if you're a regular listener to the pod, additional content from training camp goes up on YouTube. So feel free to jump in there as well. Thanks so much, Paul Hodowanek, for your time, the pod God, the post game pod God, Paul Hodowanek, and we will catch you soon.