Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - The Vikings lose to the Lions behind lots of Nick Mullens picks

Episode Date: December 24, 2023

Matthew Coller and Dane Mizutani of the Pioneer Press talk about how the Vikings nearly pulled off a wild comeback against the Detroit Lions but Nick Mullens threw four interceptions. Vikings fans criticisms go over the top and Matthew takes some time to rant about backup QBs making everyone's life crazy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to yet another Minnesota Vikings postgame show in which we will talk about a game that ended by one score that was kind of crazy, had a lot going on and a lot to discuss. Matthew Collar, along with Dane Mizutani here inside the Minnesota Vikings press box at U.S. Bank Stadium. Also a little Christmas cheer added for us here on the live stream by our editor, Jonathan Harrison. So I appreciate that. And, uh, well, I guess you're going to need that cheer after this loss, which does not eliminate the Minnesota Vikings from the playoffs, but it does take a roundhouse kick to the face of their playoff chances because the Seattle Seahawks won in the final moments, as did the green Bay Packers who will show up here next week so this game it was a crazy one is it is it even like just cliche at this point to say the vikings played a crazy i should say

they played a normal one because it was crazy uh and it starts out where i'm thinking dane the detroit lions are going to win by 30 because they cruise down the field so easily in the first drive but then we realize kevin o'conConnell may have heard everybody talking about his play calling, and he decided to get in his bag and do everything he could to dial up wide receivers getting open. And man, did he do that throughout this game. And that's why this one's going to be a little weird to talk about, because the Vikings had so many open wide receivers, so many opportunities deep down the field and hit on a lot of them that they should have put up like 450 yards. They should

have won the game. There's an open wide receiver, adjusted Jefferson, that if Nick Mullins leads him forward, he catches it. He goes into the end zone. The Vikings no doubt make the extra point. And then we go, what a crazy comeback. And instead Nick Mullins throws his fourth interception. And then after the game tells us that he's a great quarterback, which was a little odd, but I think with Nick Mullins, what we see is a guy who knows where to throw the football and can't throw it there. And, and it, and it makes you think about the future more And it makes you think about the future more than it makes you think about Nick Mullins presently. It makes you think that if you are a quarterback,

let's say a rookie quarterback next year who knows where to throw the football and you do it and it's there that this team could have an incredible passing offense. But alas, with Nick Mullins, they cannot because he can't get the ball there because he's a backup quarterback who has no arm. So I came away from this game going, well, that was quite the entertainment for a couple hours. And I don't know what else I'm supposed to say about it. I mean, I really think

that this wide receiving group and these play calls, this scheme can be super, super successful, but the quarterback you have operating it either with Dobbs, he couldn't do it. Or when it's Mullins, he can do it. Can we just combine them? Like you could just couldn't make the throws. And I did get to a point today where I thought maybe it's a better idea to play Jaron Hall. So Dane, why don't you give me your big takeaway? Cause that's mine. Mine is, wow. If somebody could just throw the football to the open receivers, this would have been great. Yeah. My takeaway is spinning off of that because it really just rests on Nick Mullins again. And just how evident it is that this guy is a backup quarterback that feels like he should be a

starter in this, in the way he plays the position. He's throwing the ball all over the place, making throws with the confidence of a player who thinks he has the arm talent of, of a starting quarterback of an elite quarterback, but it turns out he doesn't. And the biggest problem with Nick Mullins is that he continues to throw those passes thinking he has the talent of a starting quarterback, and he doesn't. You can go through every single interception today. I wouldn't even say they're necessarily bad decisions as much as they are just he can't get the ball to where he wants it to go.

And he told us after the game that he, like you said, he thinks he's a good quarterback in the league and he needs to take the next step. The next step would just have be having more talent in that arm. And it was never more evident than, than late in the game. Um, because like you said, of course they were playing a one score game again. Of course they had a chance to win the game in the final minute. Uh, but right before that drive started, me and Collin were talking and we said either they're going to win or he's going to throw a pick. And there's no in between. They're not going three and out. They're not turning the ball over on downs. It's not going to be a fumble like a lot of games this year. It's either touchdown Nick Mullins or interception Nick

Mullins. And it was nearly touchdown Nick Mullins. It should have been touchdown Nick Mullins. But that's why this is my big takeaway from the game is because this is who Nick Mullins is. I actually don't know if Jaron Hall could function in the offense as well as Nick Mullins did today in the sense that he threw for 400 yards. He threw the ball downfield. I don't know if Jaron Hall would take those chances, would be willing to do the things that Nick Mullins did. That's not an argument against not playing Hall next week. I think if you want to do that, that's totally fine. But they did put up 400 yards of passing offense today

with the last throw being one that absolutely should have been a touchdown but was not because of how Nick Mullins lacks certain talent in that right arm of his. You go back and watch that replay of Justin Jefferson running wide open. He could have taken it up to the pylon. He could have ran across the goal line. He could have even sat there, which is what Nick Mullins made him do. Right at the goal line, Nick Mullins said after the game that he knew in that moment he could either put it on J.J. right at the goal line or he could lead him upfield. And he decided to put it on J.J. right at the goal line because he thinks he has the arm talent to do it. He does not. That ball floats.

Detroit safety comes in, swoops in, intercepts, and the Lions are kings of the north. Another thing to note, yeah, the lions are kings of the north another thing to know yeah the vikings are no longer division title holders they're no longer defending champs and now they need to win out and get some help to make the playoffs i think after last week's game a lot of people became resigned as i think you and i both did to the idea that this team can't really go anywhere with a quarterback. Who's going to throw interceptions all the time. And you would have thought that maybe after throwing,

was it three last week or two, but they were really two, but they were really bad, bad ones. Yeah. And then, you know, four,

so averaging three interceptions, but you would have thought maybe Kevin O'Connell would dial it down and try to like reign him in. But, you know, I don't know that you can. Like, I also don't know that you can reign in this offense. This offense is designed for a gunslinging ass quarterback. It's Matt Stafford's offense from Los Angeles. And if Matt Stafford's the quarterback today, they win by 20 points.

Like, I mean, there's so many throws that are out there to be had that if a guy just has a stronger arm, like you talk about putting it on him, there was enough space in room that if Matthew Stafford throws the football, it's on him and it's to the five yard line. Or I'm watching Josh Allen throw, even when Josh Allen throws a swing pass, it almost goes through the player's body because he throws it so hard. And then we watched Nick Mullins. It's like watching Greg Maddox, except for without the control.

It's just that that's the reality of who backup quarterbacks are. And if you remember that stat was bouncing around, that Mullins had the most yards ever through like eight starts or something. And it was like the other guys were Dan Marino and Patrick Mahomes. Huh? What? Now I get it. You throw a bunch of interceptions and then you have to come back from way behind. And yet he is good enough at knowing where to throw the football and has enough talent to get

it up in the air to his receivers that if the opposing defense is playing back, then they can catch the ball and get a bunch of yards and give you a chance to win this game. So I guess in a way, since I had already decided after last week, well, I don't think you can really go anywhere with this team. It made today's game. And the takeaway I wanted to have was, I don't know what you're supposed to criticize. This was kind of a fun, entertaining game. And that's all you could really ask for at this point. I mean, you're on your fourth quarterback already. You could go to Jaron Hall if you want to. Now, I think they'll wait one more week while they're still in it. They

could absolutely beat Green Bay after the Carolina Panthers just put up 30 points on Green Bay and had a chance to win that game. So you're not completely out of it. You might as well just ride the roller coaster. But the thing is with Nick Mullins, the roller coaster has a rocket strap to it and you could shoot up or down at any time. I mean, when he comes out at the end of the first half and just starts gunning it to Jefferson, we're like, uh, okay. I thought the game was over at 17 to seven. And then he leads this crazy drive where it's all Jefferson. He just makes three unbelievable plays, including an incredible catch in the end zone. And so the takeaways for me are more like, Hey, remember when

we talk about paying just to Jefferson, you're going to want to do that this off season. And whoever the next quarterback is, this is what you get. Like, this is what you get. You get a guy where you just throw a little pop fly on third and 27. And he's like, excuse me, I will go get this and just climbs a ladder. Like he's Anthony Edwards and goes up there and catches the ball over to Detroit lions. I mean, that is incredible. Uh, but I will say, so on the offensive side, I mean, that's, we can talk about that more, but on the defensive side, you could criticize the defense for how the lions were able to sustain long drives. And I think after what we saw in Cincinnati, the lions were like,

ah, yeah, I think that's the thing to do. They ran the ball pretty effectively. They dinked and dunked a lot in this game. They had guys open over the middle as we thought they probably could. But I also and I don't want to just give free passes out. Like, I know that after a loss, everybody's upset and they want you to call for heads and everything else. But at the end of Cincinnati, you and I both said in that Cincinnati press box, if you ask the defense to just carry you and carry you and carry you, it's not the 2000 Ravens. It's not the 2017 Vikings.

It's not the 85 Bears. It's a good defense that was Harrison Phillips could barely walk. You're missing Byron Murphy. Caleb Evans got benched today, which we should discuss as well. This was a, oh, yeah, this defense actually does have a ways to go before we're going to consider them to be actually elite because this is what they look like against the top notch offense. So I think the fact that they had a chance at the end of the game was pretty remarkable

based on what they were dealing with going uphill with their quarterback throwing interceptions, with their defense struggling. But in a way, a bounce back game for Kevin O'Connell, if you will. Like, I don't know. Like that's, that's kind of how I'm feeling. Yeah. With, with the defense, like it's not really a condemnation of Brian Flores that they got, they gave up 30 points today. I think it really just like the rhetoric surrounding flores kind of did that thing which tends to happen in sports sometimes you what a guy becomes so underrated that we start talking about how underrated he is or how good he is that he becomes a little overrated and then like somewhere the it probably exists somewhere in the middle

i'm not saying brian flores is overrated i'm saying what the defense was doing for a month and a half against kind of mid-level quarterbacks, some bad quarterbacks, we probably overrated like the entire operation and how they were going to function and just be able to shut down elite offenses. We saw it last week. Cincinnati, just the buckle of a game yesterday against Pittsburgh, looks what happens when a backup quarterback has to play for too long with Jake Browning. But they do have weapons, and we saw that last week,

like the talent deficiency with the Vikings defense and an elite offense on the other end. They're going to lose that matchup over the course of a 60-minute football game. That's what happened today. I don't necessarily think it's Brian Flores is getting the, you know, crap beat out of him, but you know, by the offensive coordinator,

Ben Johnson on the other end, I just think that there's limitations with the, the certain players you have. It didn't really generate much of a pass rush. They blitzed golf, but it got picked up. He got the ball out quick in time. To your point,

it was very Cincinnati last week, very Justin Herbert week three, where if they're going to send a blitz, he's going to throw it to Amon Ross St. Brown, or he's going to throw it to Jameer Gibbs leaking out of the backfield. He's going to throw it to Sam Laporta. And that's what Goff did. He kind of just dinked and dunked at times. He did take shots downfield, but the defense, this was kind of another sobering reminder that they still have a little bit of ways to go. I don't know if this final stretch is going to impact whether or not Brian Flores is a head coaching candidate. Yes or no. I don't know if he's going to get a job. Yes or no. He might be the defensive coordinator here next year.

It's something to build off of certainly this whole season collectively but games like this are reminders of there there is still an ascension that needs to take place with this defense and I think we saw it a preview of it last week we definitely saw it today credit the defense I guess for getting a stop when they needed to to get the Vikings the ball back with a chance to go win the game but I think this was just kind of a continued coming back down to earth for this defense, which at the beginning of the year we thought was going to stink. And they don't stink, but they're not elite. No, that's for sure.

And they're especially not elite with Byron Murphy out. And also then DJ Wanham, they lose late in the game. And he's been really key for them. Uh, there's been no word about Marcus Davenport coming back. So now you're down to basically Patrick Jones. And I'm not really sure who's after that, uh, right off the top of my head on the depth chart. I think it's probably Andre Carter, but you're probably not playing him in, in situational downs late in the game. So they might have to where they're at next week against the green Bay Packers who their offense has really come alive over the last six weeks or

so. So that's not an easy task. And it does come down to a lot of times when you play good teams, there is only so much you can scheme. And the Packers have seen this scheme once already, like that's sort of pushing it forward. But that's how I felt today where Amon Ross St. Brown is a really good wide receiver. Jameer Gibbs, you could see why they took him in the first round, because even though he had a fumble today, he was lightning for most of the day. There's that fourth and two where he completely jukes a Caleb Evans out of his shoes. And then a Caleb Evans got hit again with something similar from Amon Ross St. Brown, which is why probably he got benched.

But you've seen the weaknesses, right? Like Evans gets mossed last week. Makai Blackman got banged up today. At one point they're playing Jalen Williams and people are asking who's Jalen Williams. Jalen Williams has been on the team since training camp. He had a good night practice. If we remember like that night practice becomes very memorable sometimes, but that's who they're down to now on the roster. Jordan Hicks is coming back

from that injury. He had been out multiple weeks and he played basically the whole game for somebody who was coming back from a severe, serious leg injury. And Harrison Phillips was so banged up that a lot of times he couldn't jog off the field. He was walking very slowly off the field, went down to a knee. You have guys really battling it out. And at one point, I think I said, you know, on Twitter or something like it's just one of those years like where you just get everybody hurt. And no matter how much you keep fighting through, there isn't a whole lot you can do. You're down your quarterback, which Justin Jefferson said after the game, like, well, you guys should appreciate Kirk Cousins accuracy. Like, I don't think he

meant it to take a shot at Mullins, but it's true. A lot of these throws that Mullins missed, the receiver is there. There's an option there for the quarterback. And I guess, you know, you could make an argument about like, this team has been so close in these losses that you should regret and feel bad that they had chances to win all of them. They should have won against Cincinnati. They should have won against Denver. They should have won against Chicago and they should have won here today. But that's kind of what happens when you have to play with fire all the time, every single week. And I I've gotten emails and questions about well is this like coaching that they can never put a team away and they always play these close games and i think

it's just quarterback it's been quarterback with kirk cousins because mullins is out there thinking he's farve so he's just gunning it everywhere and he's like he's like nick jamis winston like if jamis winston had no arm it's Nick Mullins. And that can be super fun as it was at times today. But Cousins is the opposite end of that spectrum where he is too conservative at times and they go three and out and they don't get those explosive plays. So this almost felt like one of those Kirky in 2021 type of losses where you put up a ton of numbers and you don't just quite get there. So it has been one of those seasons where you can look back and you could circle.

This is where it was lost. This is where it was lost. This is where it was lost. But if you're going to run out, Nick Mullins, this is kind of what's going to happen. But there was a key moment in the game that I wanted to get your take on. Did you have more to react to that? No, you gone. Okay. Jared Goff drops back in the pocket and he goes to throw the football. His arm is hit. It goes right into the hands of Cam Bynum who runs it for a touchdown,

but the referees immediately review it in the booth, not like a throw the flag review. And then they just say, no, no, no, we're good here. It's just an incomplete pass. Now I saw about five different replays. I could not figure out why it was so clear and obvious and fast. And we've gotten to a point around the league where every game I watch, there's some review where I'm like, I don't know. I didn't see that. Or Terry McCauley didn't like, I don't know. I didn't see that. Or Terry McCauley didn't see that or Dean Blandino didn't see that or whatever. Like, I mean, there's just been such ambiguity on these reviews to the point where the thing that's supposed to be helping us get the calls, right. Seems to be helping us get it wrong. And, or at least making

us more confused. How did you feel about that play? Because clearly Kevin O'Connell was answering that question through gritted teeth after the game. Yeah, I think functionally on the field, the officiating crew deserves credit for the way they handled that situation in terms of that's how you're supposed to let it play out because of the existence of replay. If it looks like it's close to a fumble and maybe an incomplete pass, you're taught now to not blow the whistle, let the play play out, and then we'll figure it out afterwards. So they did that credit to them there. I think it was probably an incomplete pass, but I agree with you in the sense that it did not feel clear and obvious. So if functionally on the field, you're calling that

a fumble, then I need to see like obvious proof that when Jarrett Goff's hand is coming forward, that the ball had not already gotten knocked out. And when you go through every replay that they showed on the broadcast that we're watching in the press box above our heads his arm gets hit the ball might have wobbled there it may be out and it might be an open hand coming forward which in which case would be a fumble and so i think you're on to something there when when you say like how the hell was it so quick from the booth up top to be like boom incomplete yep incomplete. Yep. Don't even worry about it. Let's not even make Dan Campbell challenge the play because that is normally what happens in these situations. Touchdown, I guess it's every scoring plays reviewed. So it was a touchdown. So that's probably signaled in it. Dan Campbell probably wouldn't have had to throw

his challenge flag at all, but that's besides the point with how quickly it happened um i just found it hard to believe that it it was so obvious on the field that you could just completely overturn such a big moment in the game um no doubt the other way around detroit fans would have felt like they got screwed uh because common sense like watching enough football that probably feels like an incomplete pass but if you're going to functionally on the field by the way you're taught now as officials to let that thing go, I actually don't know, watching it back, if there was enough to overturn it. So is it why the Vikings lost the game?

I mean, kind of. It's involved. I mean, it's a big swing in the game. I don't think you can. I think it would be a little bit sour grapes to say that's why we lost, if you're a Vikings fan. But that changes the whole complexion of the game. Also, that same drive, they get called for a phantom roughing the passer call,

which I think you can be more upset with that one, because that's second and 27, I believe it is, second and 26. It's tackled for a gain of four. A flag comes out because Patrick Jones hits Jared Goff in the shoulder with his shoulder, and then it's a personal foul for automatic first down. That whole drive was just a debacle by the refs, except for the fact that they actually, the fumble on the field, they handled that correctly.

Everything else throughout the drive as a whole, I think they handled improperly. Folks, if you've been listening to the show, then you know how much fun we have been having with prize picks this year. Just go to prizepicks.com slash purple. Use the code purple for a first deposit match up to $100. And let me tell you how it works. If you haven't heard us talk about it enough yet, or you haven't tried it yet very simple there are yardage totals on prize picks you either pick more or less and boom you are playing so last week each week has been a roller coaster ride of fun and the best part is that when i have a bad week i didn't lose much it doesn't cost much to play. You can turn 10 bucks into 250 very easily.

And if things go sideways for you, you're not out a whole heck of a lot of money. That is prizepicks.com slash purple, just more or less on yardage totals. And you are in prizepicks.com slash purple, the code purple for a first deposit match up to 100 and the play where there was the penalty called for roughing the passer it was a five yard completion so it would have made third and 21 which i doubt that they're going to play more aggressively there and just in the flow of the game, it was very up in the air at that point. It was very much to be decided where that game was about to go. And it ends up being a 10 point swing. And I mean, not, it can't be more than that necessarily,

like the 10 points. Cause they took a touchdown off the board for the Vikings, put a field goal on the board for the lions, but could feel like even more of a swing because the lions would have been punting. And then the Vikings get the ball with a chance to go potentially score a touchdown. And it just ends up really changing how the entire game is going to the point where then you feel like you're playing from behind for most, if not all of that game, uh, all the way to the end from that point. And again, where it's like the XFL and the USFL tried some things with referees,

including showing the referees do their review. So the audience at home could hear what they were saying in their review. Now, you might not love what they were saying, or you might not agree with them based on what you saw, but at least you would understand this is what they saw. So they could say, here is the moment. Freeze it. I'm looking at it.

Here's the moment where Goff's arm comes far enough for this to be a pass. Okay, great. Then I at least understand. Even if I think, I don't know if that's quite enough, but at least I understand what the refs, but when they just immediately signal downs, like, no, no, no, what you just saw didn't happen. You're like, uh, what? Okay. Like I'm looking at this review and I just don't see anything clear and obvious. And then when you're talking about the, the 15 yard penalty, this is a thing. And look, I don't want this to become more reviews and more litigation over everything, but these are such huge game changing plays, including today's that, I mean, it doesn't

just give them 15 yards. It gives them a first down. It eradicates a third and 21. Like that's a big deal. That drive is over 90% of the time. So it was a huge momentum drive and it was a huge momentum play for Jones to get hit the way that he was or to get hit with that penalty the way that he was. And I wish you could throw the red flag on that. That I mean, I know they tried it with pass interference a few years ago. It was a total disaster. But I wish with a 15 yard penalty, you could at least throw the flag, have them look at it again, because sometimes in real time, something looks longer than it was. Like Jones did not take a one, two, and then bam, hit him. It was more of a like one and then fell into him a little bit. And then golf who weighs like 240 pounds was like, we, and then like the throw himself on the ground. So you just got totally fooled on a guy throwing himself to the ground and you end up giving the lions a 10 point swing overall on that drive. I mean, it, if you're upset about that and you think the refs took the game out of the Vikings

hands here, I can't disagree with it because I felt the same way. And then I was told after the game, it was the same refs from the chiefs game. And that's where it comes back to Dane. That's where it comes back to this season is a bunch of, if this little thing didn't happen, if that little thing didn't happen, then you're maybe looking at the playoffs, but now it feels like you're not looking at the playoffs, but any, anyway, just, you know, the, the referee thing I think is actually fair when I usually push back on it quite a bit after these games. Yeah. I think we probably pretty easily could institute something this offseason. I mean, me, I say we like me and caller can just call the league and say, change the rule. Roger, watch the podcast.

We cannot do that. But if it was so easy for them to call down to the refs on the field and say, there's actually an incomplete pass flip that around make them walk back to you know 50 yards um that was an incomplete not a fumble then it would be pretty quick to for to call up or to call down and just say we're going to review every personal foul just that um the the pass interference review i appreciated what that was trying to accomplish. It didn't work. I'm glad that's gone. But if you just said the refs upstairs are going to, the eye in the sky is going to look at every personal foul just to make sure. And this most of the time, it's not going to come into play because oftentimes with personal fouls, it's like, oh yeah, he ripped his helmet off or, oh yeah, he came in late and he punched him.

But for, if you have that ability to do it, you can just call up. Yep. He punched him in the face. Personal foul. That's a good call. But for situations like that, roughing the passer, personal foul, let's take a quick look. Oh wait, maybe Patrick Jones didn't run his body right into Jared Goff's head because he did not.

And I think on the field it looked like he did. Yeah, I think that's probably something the league should look into. So if you're listening, Roger, look into it. All right, let's circle back away from the referees just to the overall picture of this game and what it is going to mean for the conversation going forward so when we're talking about last week coming out of it play calling did the coach do the right thing you know because of the qb sneak hey there was no tush pushing today so we got away

with that um there are some times where i feel like this offense does not give the quarterback an option to do anything simple and everything has to be hard. And the running game was completely abandoned. Alexander Madison sort of popped in and ran for minus two. And then that was it. Like, I don't know what the point of that was. Now they couldn't get Ty Chandler going. Like they weren't having any success with it. But I guess when it comes down to what we just saw, I would rather say Kevin O'Connell be like, you know what? Forget it. Let's just throw bombs and let's see what happens. Then trying to get Nick Mullins to check down, throw underneath, throw quick passes and just throw picks anyway. I don't think

that you have any control over this. I think it's like, uh, I'm trying to think of like, if you ever drove a go-kart that had been like at a broken axle or something, and you just like weave it all over the place and you're trying to keep like, if you, if you say, let's try to dial Nick back and have him throw. And he was asked about this after the game. O'Connell was, let's try to dial Nick back. Let's try to get him to throw swings, screens, check downs.

I think the dude just gets intercepted. Anyway, as shorter passes getting picked off and, and instead it's like, okay, well he can get it to the right place down the field. So we might as well just have him take a shot downfield and hope that we catch the wind of variance sweeping through us bank stadium and maybe

win a game because of it. But if he throws four picks, he throws four picks. If you know who that feels like, who I think Kevin O'Connell is, is, is Bruce Arians. It's like the same sort of deal where it's like, if Carson Palmer is the quarterback of this team, it's insane. He's like throwing for 5,000 yards, 45 touchdowns would be nuts. Right. But anything that's not no risk it, no biscuit down the field is just, it doesn't work for them. So I would prefer just having Jameis Mullins take his shots and see if they could make something happen here today against an offense. It's clearly very good and was going to score. So I took, I took no issue with that approach. I do think when it's like fourth and two, maybe something a little simpler there, but aside from that, yeah. Yeah. And I agree with Matthew in the comments. It says

Kevin O'Connell can't design screenplays. Totally. Absolutely. Has no idea what to do. Has no idea like how to stick. Has no idea how to stick with the run, how to run screens, how to run like a little mesh underneath like or whatever. It's just we're going deep, baby. And I don't know what else you're supposed to do it under the current circumstances. Yeah, I he was asked about it after the game and he said, I thought because there was a clear game plan right in place, which was we're going to attack down the field. And K.J. Osborne said after the game, like a lot of the prep this week was Detroit plays a lot of man coverage and they're not great at it. He didn't say they're not great at it, but he said they play a lot of man coverage and feel like we can win.

It's pretty clear they did play a lot of man coverage. The Vikings receivers won often today. And Nick Mullins threw the ball downfield, gave them a chance, got picked off four times while doing it. But when Kevin O'Connell was asked, are you asking Nick Mullins to do too much after the game? I think deep down he probably knows, yeah, I am. But I think he also probably feels like you do,

where it's like we have Justin Jefferson. He's back. We had TJ Hawkinson until he took. We'll talk about the injuries. I'm sure Jordan Addison got hurt, too. There is probably something about if he's going to throw a pick or if he's going to be off target or if his arms going to lie to him and he's going to think he can throw that, but he can't. We might as well do it while taking shots downfield against a pretty bad secondary.

So we saw it today. I think it was never more emblematic than on third and 27, two minute drill. It was like, F it JJ's down there somewhere. That's, you know, the meme,

the Tyreek Patrick, my home's meme that, that one made waves two or three years ago. It's really how nick mullins it felt like he was playing down the stretch it was like i'm just gonna throw it to jj hopefully he makes it happen um but i i think there was probably in the game plan as a whole like a concerted effort to just push the ball downfield largely because we have a quarterback who's probably going to turn the ball over to so i i mean he probably does he throw four interceptions if you put keep the training wheels on and have him dink and dunk no he probably doesn't throw four interceptions but i don't think you get any closer to winning

the football game either so people can be mad that they abandoned the run they probably should have stuck with it a little bit more but they were were chasing points. Like they were down 17, seven at one point and the run wasn't working early. They did try it with Alexander Madison late. I really don't have an issue with saying we're trailing. This offense is, is really tearing us up on the other end. We're going to have to go blow for blow with them and score points um they tried they came close didn't work out um justin jefferson is so good he like really just tried to like single-handedly will the vikings to a win in the final minutes of the game before he caught the ball like the buffalo catch from last year on third and 27 where

tonight he just goes up and he skies over two guys. He somehow catches it. And the ball doesn't even remotely come close to touching the ground. Um, just secures it. He also recovered a fumble, like the play before that, that just like kept them alive.

Um, the ball is squirting all over the place and JJ just dives in like Superman from out of nowhere, recovers the ball, gives it back to the ref lines up, runs over to the other side of the field, lines up and then hauls one in like he had descended down from heaven to do it. So he is really, really good. And that goes back to your point earlier of like whether it's Kirk Cousins as the quarterback next year or a rookie or a Baker Mayfield level bridge stop gap. They have a guy who missed two months, had to go to the hospital because his internal organs were all screwed up in Las Vegas,

came back last week, had 84 yards receiving, got his legs under him and then exploded for one 41 today. So your offense is going to be good moving forward. I do think that there's just something when when you have a guy you're on your fourth quarterback when you have a guy like nick mullins you're probably going to be limited in some of the things you could do yeah just to uh address the comment section which is um always interesting after these games uh one thing is uh jeff was

asking why we're saying that it's okay that they were pushing the ball down the field despite Nick Collins not having a good arm. How many 20 plus plays did they have today? I mean, six, seven. I mean, they were able to create a ton of explosive plays and the trade-off, no matter who it is, this has always been like a downfield. Hey, how about Matthew Stafford? When they win the Super Bowl, he threw like 20 picks that year, whatever, I think he was the league leader in interceptions. It's always going to be a thing. Kirk cousins threw a lot of interceptions last year. That is the trade-off. If you have, if you throw short all the time, then I think Nick Mullen still does have interceptions and miscues and inaccurate passes, but you don't get the upside of the big plays. And you're saying it doesn't matter if you throw four interceptions, they are driving to potentially win the game.

And I know it ends on an interception. So that's what you're going to say. But the point is, if you look at what they've done the last two weeks offensively and how many points they've put up and how they have put up 48 points in the last two weeks with a quarterback who hadn't played since 2021 and has been cut by like five teams. And then that's what you're working with here. And yet he's still able to operate it enough where you can create these explosive plays and give yourself a chance to have one more drive or one more stop along the way, which they didn't get because the defense struggled. And I don't know what else you want. Like I really don't front when we were talking about a backup quarterback like this, I really, if you throw a bunch of checkdowns and run the ball, you score 12 points and lose,

which what do you want? I had a good time today, I guess. Like, I don't know. You can't fricking win with these guys. Okay. You can't win with these guys. It's just not possible. All right. Now I've seen people saying they should have got Joe Flacco. Maybe they should have got Joe Flacco last year. Joe Flacco was one in three with a 70 quarterback rating or something. So I don't know. I guess you should fire everybody because they didn't get Joe Flacco or whatever. Every week, every loss. It's like, we should just fire people. Who is it? Why isn't anyone fired? It's like, I don't know, because this thing actually looks like if it gets the right quarterback, it's going to be really, really good. But unfortunately,

you're starting quarterbacks, Achilles tour, and that's what happened. Like that's the whole explanation for the season. And we come in here after each week, after a lot of these close games and everything else. And it's hard to just keep saying the reason you're in the position you're in is because your quarterback Torres Achilles, but that's really the fact of the matter. So you can try to throw it far. You could try to throw it short. You could try to hand it off. You could try to do whatever you could have new rotten. Uh, what's his name? New Rockney, the, uh, Notre Dame guy from like the 20s uh run your offense uh run what navy was running uh the other day or whatever whatever you want it's not gonna

work it's not gonna be like great so uh that i think at least this gives them a chance to catch lightning in a bottle from time to time create a bunch of deep plays and potentially pull off some upsets the rest of the way but we have to talk about that. If they lose these next two games, there is no question it is better for them. It just is. At this point, we have now reached the point where the playoffs are not in very good shape because the Seahawks and Packers won. And you can be in that top 10 type of range if you lose the next two games. They're not going to try to lose the next two games.

They're not going to pull Justin Jefferson or something that would make him really unexcited to sign a contract extension. But we've really completed the full 2020 cycle of your 0-3, oh, maybe, and then no, no, not really. That's, that's why no. Oh, and three teams ever make the playoffs because even if you get on a little run, you can't sustain it and that's where you end up being. Uh, so it will be better for them if they lose the next two games, you could absolutely see them winning the next two games because they have enough offensive

talent. What do you think happens, Dane? I think they're going to win on New Year's Eve against the Packers. And then I think they're going to lose in the season finale at Detroit because I don't, even if the lines are locked in, I really don't see Dan Campbell as someone who's just going to rest everyone and just let them get rolled at home. But it is nice that we can really start to have a conversation about like losing games without feeling like, Oh, well, yeah. What would it be better if they lost eight

straight games to close the year? And when we're talking after week 11, like, yeah, it probably would have been, um, but they, they didn't. And it was just two months from now, but now we're two weeks left in the year. And we can can actually say like if they lose to green bay next week their playoff hopes are over definitely i think it would their percentage chance would go like from i think right now they're probably sitting at 30 ish and i think if they lose next week it would go down to like two if they lose next week then they absolutely should lose in detroit because you should start thinking about draft positioning now. And if every weekend you want to cheer for the Vikings to win because you're a fan of the Vikings, I'm not going to blame you and say, you're dumb.

You should be cheering for losses. out about it now that finally we've reached a point where we can all be honest and say if the vikings finish seven and ten seven and ten seven and ten seven and ten it would be 100 000 million percent better for them uh will they do that i i don't think so because i did not see it today because i was watching this crazy, entertaining, wild, crazy game. But Joe Barry, defensive coordinator for the Packers, allowed Bryce Young to hang 30 on them. And Bryce Young led the Panthers, who are going to get the number one pick for the Bears, running away. Let him drive downfield late and have a opportunity to kick a field go to send it to overtime i think kevin o'connell and if it's nick mullins it's probably going to

be nick mullins i know people want jaron hall to start it's going to be nick mullins i think they're going to be able to put up points on green bay and i think they're probably going to be able to get enough stops because even though that packers team has come on they're not the lions that offense i don't think is as good. I don't think they have as many good skill position players, as many weapons, as good of a quarterback. Yeah, I think the Vikings are going to beat the Packers on New Year's Eve. And then I think they will lose to the Lions. I think you'll finish 8-9, which is literally when we first started talking about this.

Week 1, 2, 3, when it was oh, and three or week five, when it was one and four, we all said the worst thing they can do is get hot and be right around 500 and narrowly missed the playoffs, but it sure looks like that's where it's headed. Uh, I agree that next week they could win. i also think that the way that these recent offenses have performed against this defense and not having dj want them potentially not having byron murphy the way that the secondary is played the pass rush they haven't stopped the run aaron jones is back now he's playing pretty well or at least they didn't stop the run really effectively today. And I think that that's just like your defense getting worn down. They had how many more plays were run by Detroit than the Vikings. It was like

25 more plays or something. They are going to be extremely worn down after this game and banged up and not having DJ Wanham. It's could they put up a bunch of points against Pittsburgh? Yes. Or I'm sorry, against green Bay and the Packers. Yes. Uh, but also could Nick Mullins throw four more interceptions? That answer is also yes. And the Packers did create some pressure against Kirk cousins the last time that they played. And if they create that against Nick Mullins, it's also very clear that he cannot play under pressure at all. There's no mobility. He makes really bad decisions. He almost did it again where he was falling to the ground and threw the ball, except for this time he was just barely down. So once again, his butt came into play in the game and it was just barely down, but he tried again. I mean, the fumble, like Aiden Hutchinson just has to fall on it. The game is over at that point.

I mean, there were other tries to turn the ball over. There was the one on the first drive to Brian branch where he just floats it over a Josh Oliver and Brian branch and hits him right in the bread basket. Uh, and then, you know, he doesn't, uh, intercept that ball, but that was another, I mean, there were probably seven turnover worthy plays in this game from Nick Mullins. So even a Joe Barry defense, if he's going to do that is got a pretty good chance to beat the Vikings. I think this team has been beaten so far down. Can they win another game? Probably yes. Is it better that they don't? Absolutely. Yes. Now, of course, a lot of people are saying play Jaron Hall. Now this was a funny ride for me yesterday. Oh, I wanted to

address this. The one comment from a skull city blues that said Pittsburgh's victory yesterday proved what a head coach is hired to do. And that's to motivate his team and not concern himself with play calling. Well, that, I mean, that doesn't make sense because Pittsburgh's coach is a defensive coach, not Kevin O'Connell who was hired here for offense. But anyway, true head coach benches Mullins after the first half. I mean, Mullins came back in the second half and gave them a chance to win the game and their one drive away. So I don't know about that, but more than anything, Pittsburgh is a great example because I have been watching Pittsburgh's media call for Mike Tomlin's head all year long. They

do the same crap you guys do. I hope you know how ununique that is to lose a game and then freak out and say, fire the coach. So I've been watching them with Mike Tomlin, like fighter Tom. He doesn't know what he's doing. He's a complete fool. He's totally lost it. And it's weird how it correlates with Mitch Trubisky playing. And guess what? They try to throw a bunch of short passes with Mitch Trubisky and it doesn't work. And then they bring in Mason Rudolph and a wide receiver makes an amazing play. And all of a sudden, Mike Tomlin looks like a genius again. This wild ride is happening all over the league, friends. That's how it goes. So no, we're not talking about whether Kevin O'Connell is a true head coach or not.

I thought today was more a testament of what the offense can do than anything else. The big takeaway is that is that they are, they are showing how much they can do with these receivers if they have the correct quarterback playing. Oh, now here's one. I usually don't get. If collar is justifying everything the Vikings do, can I get that from the team PR department? That's a new one.

That's a new one. Usually not my reputation. So anyway, what were we, what were we talking about before that? I lost my train of thought with the comment section, but it's Christmas Eve. So you guys are really aggressive for Christmas Eve. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I think when we look at kind of we zoom out and look at this season as a whole, like I really hope that people at the end of this season are going to be able to kind of look at what this really was. I think it's hard to do when they play every game so close and they should win every game or there's a world

where they could have won every single game. And I think this is just a reaction kind of like Cincinnati last week where it feels like someone needs to pay because they didn't win a close game and they keep not winning close games. Um, they won 11 of them last year in the regular season. We don't need to talk about last year. Um, but I really think that this is just an example of what happens when things over the course of a season lead you into probably a team that shouldn't be in these close games. And then they end up being in the close games. And I almost think fans would prefer that they just get the

doors blown off them every week. Cause then they could just be like, Kirk went down, you know, the season was over in green Bay. We stink. Uh, but well, yeah, good thing. Uh, you know, if Kirk was back, we, we we really who knows what could have happened. And I think there's still a sliver of that. Like what would have happened if Kirk never hurt himself or got, you know, his Achilles to shoot up his calf. But I really think the fact that all they've done since then is be pretty competitive in games and at times maybe leave things to be desired

offensively with play calling defensively with being unable to get off the field in certain times over the last few weeks. All that's really done is just stoke the flames of like, wow, what could have been when really like what could have been doesn't exist anymore. And it really hasn't since the starting quarterback went down. So this is not us coming on here every single week and being like, well, what did the Vikings, how can we spin this for why the Vikings are still good?

We were, I would say hypercritical of, of certain things on this, but it really is important. I think to take a step back and realize like what the entire coaching staff, not just Kevin O'Connell, but the entire coaching staff is working with here, which is four quarterbacks this year. Nick Mullins, a guy who was willing to throw a ball anywhere on the field, even if he can't do it.

It's you lost Jordan Addison today, TJ Hawkinson today. JJ was out there trying to play superhero by himself. Basically you've lost DJ want them again. You know, like there there's Marcus Davenport. Like, I really think this is a pretty well-coached team that just at a certain point, the injuries just take its toll and it's not an excuse. It's just the reality that the season has kind of gone off the rails over the course of the last, I mean, Kirk got hurt in October. Over the last two and a half months,

nothing really has broken their way in terms of injury luck or staying healthy, and that's part of the year. It's the year of the backup quarterback. I think 50-something quarterbacks have started games this year in the NFL. So it's not to say you can't succeed, but I think at a certain point, even if you're a well-coached team, which people will push back and say, they're not, they absolutely are. It's why they're in these close games. I think injuries become too much. And I really hope that we're collectively able to zoom out in January, mid January, when the Vikings have either missed the playoffs or lost in the first

round and say like, it was a fun year. We probably got a little bit more than we should have out of this group. But let's move forward. The sky is not falling. There are pieces in place. We don't need to fire everyone. Yeah, I think when we've reached the point of talking about Joe Flacco, Tush pushes, screen passes, it just sort of shows you how we're forced into this spot that we're looking

for explanations that aren't really the reason. And you could say, well, oh, you can't use injuries as an excuse. Lots of people have injuries, not the quarterback. And yes, I understand like Cleveland won today with Joe Flacco, a quarterback. And that was an amazing performance from what I saw in the box score. Also, Cleveland is in extreme win right now mode because they have a Super Bowl roster. The thing is about the Vikings is that they have a decent roster that's overturning and it's in the middle of rebuilding and it has things on offense that can make you competitive and a defensive coordinator that can make you competitive, but it does not have the beasts of the Cleveland Browns that can make you into a great team.

Even if you have to bring in a Joe Flacco and they were honestly winning when Deshaun Watson wasn't even playing well, where that's two very different situations. And by the way, the Vikings are a couple of plays away from being right there, uh, in that position to make the playoffs. So it's very hard for me to come on here after a loss like this and say, I don't know, man, you just need to get rid of everybody because we've been in a position not that long ago where they did need to get rid of everybody. And it does not look like this it it really when at the end of mike zimmer it was a tire fire

throughout this organization they looked like they had nowhere to go no direction and everybody was miserable and including the players and that is not the case here. The case here is this team has fought themselves back from an 0-3 start and losing its quarterback to have been within an Alexander Madison fumble, an interception at the end of a game for Nick Mullins here, a Justin Fields game-winning drive, which who would have seen that, from being right there in the playoffs right now. And they've just let a few games slip away from them. That makes me not want to sit here and say, get rid of the GM, get rid of the coach, get rid of whatever. I mean, I see this all over Vikings, Twitter, the comment sections, like what, what about this would

say you need to get rid of people like nothing, absolutely nothing. So I guess over the last two weeks, it's kind of worn me down to the point where I just want to be like, I don't get it folks. I don't get it. Like when you watch a backup quarterback come in and throw for 400 yards. And if he had just a little bit more accuracy, uh, they're winning this football game and go, I don't know, fire people. Like, do we have, do we have other ways we could talk about football or is that the only way is I let, does everybody want to be on first take with Skip Bayless, where you just come on and yell at things? I don't know.

Maybe that is the case. So, yes, you folks have worn me down a bit here. But the question is, though, they won't play Jaron Hall next week. In your mind, though, because I see a lot of this, and I became a little more open to this as the third and fourth interceptions were happening. Uh, do you think that they should consider playing Jaron Hall next week rather than the interception prone Nick Maltz? I do not. Um, I think it's always going to sound better to play the guy that we don't know anything about. I think right now the team, the locker room, the players,

the coaching staff feels like they can win two games. And if they win two games, they can make the playoffs. They still feel like their season is very much intact and they can, they say it all the time. It's saying that everything they want to accomplish is still in front of them. I think it's a lot to put on a rookie to say like, you're up buddy, win us these two games. We got to win both of them to make the playoffs and you're up. I know that first drive, second drive of your career went really good until it went really bad. Um, we're going to need you to win both of these games now.

It's just, I get wanting to play him, but it's kind of illogical in my opinion, like to throw this kid into this fire right now. Maybe like, I think people are hoping that he's Brock Purdy and he's going to come in and show you flashes of being great. But we know, and the coaching staff, I feel like, has really alluded to this in so many words so many times. I think the game's still pretty big for Jaron Hall,

and I think it's fast for Jaron Hall still. And just because one guy looks bad does not automatically mean someone else is going to look good. Actually, we just did this a month ago when everyone was like, bench Josh Dobbs, play Nick Mullins. It's Nick Mullins time. Well, now you want to bench Nick Mullins, play Jaron Hall. It's Jaron Hall time. I get it. It's the backup quarterback syndrome. But I think if you are a fan who wants to win two games and make the playoffs, then Nick Mullins is probably your best bet at doing that. If they lose next week, yeah,

go ahead. Play Jaron Hall in Detroit. See what you have and give him some live reps and hope he doesn't get hurt again. But if you are serious about still trying to chase down the mythical idea of getting to the playoffs, which now you need some help to do it, I still think even though he turns the ball over and gives it away like it's candy on Halloween, like it's probably better if Nick Mullins is the guy. You really could have gone with gives it away like Santa Claus on Christmas Eve. How in the world did you go Halloween candy right there? I did watch Nightmare Before Christmas last night. Great movie if you've seen it. So there's another part of me, uh, that said, like, I agree with everything you said that the logic of the team

will be, Hey, we can still make the playoffs with two wins. Potentially, if we get a couple of things that go right, if Nick Mullins plays like this, it even throws one fewer interception. You win the game, uh, which, uh, you know, but there's, if it's's if it's me and nobody's feelings are involved so not the coaches not the players not the owners whatever it's more logical to play jaron hall to just get an idea of where he stands because he could be your backup for next year or maybe more than that i i don't know like maybe in some whatever universe, but it always makes sense to get some reps for an inexperienced quarterback when your season is over. So I think if the Vikings lose to the Packers and whatever else falls, whatever way,

and they are eliminated from the playoffs, when they go to Detroit, then we will see Jaron Hall play against Detroit. And that would make a lot of sense. I personally would just play him next week because I think that in Cincinnati, it ended like any dream that they were making the playoffs pretty much ended right there. I didn't have a ton of confidence that they would beat Detroit because Detroit is even better than Cincinnati has their starting quarterback. And man, if they didn't really bungle that last drive and just got like one more first down, the game is over. Uh, so yeah, I mean, I don't like their chances still that I haven't seen any of the charts yet of what their percentages are right now, but it can't be good. It's gotta be down to maybe one in four at best. And that's if they win both games and the percentages of that are not high. So I would probably, if it's the video game world and nobody's thoughts matter, but you can't,

if you're Kevin O'Connell, just be like, okay, uh, well, we're just going to try something else and have all the veteran players be like, okay, what now we're going to another guy. Like you just seem kind of reckless at that point. Um, and when it comes to, uh, now see, this is the funny thing right here. It's like, no matter what we say is that people are going to call us like Kevin O'Connell homers or find some criticism for O'Connell's game plan or whatever else. So I think it's probably time to just wrap up the show because unfortunately you're going to have to wait a while to figure out what this whole thing is going to be under Kevin O'Connell because Kirk cousins, Achilles robbed that for you. And I'm sorry that happened,

but I thought that today they couldn't have given it much better of a shot than throwing the ball over the place and seeing if you could out lions, the lions or whatever, and they end up throwing four picks. So it is what it is. And, uh, we are now looking at a very, very difficult spot. Um, but you know, I, I don't think they'll start Jared Hall. And I also am not confident they'll beat the Packers next week. And then we go from there. So, um, little, little bit messy in the comment section for the second straight week. Uh, we'll try to work on that,

uh, next week when you all will be at new year's Eve mode at almost midnight. When we do the show, that could be a really fun time. So thanks everybody for, uh, watching slash listening. And,

um, I wish it went different for you. That's, that's all I could say. I wish that Kirk cousins Achilles held up because then it would have been a very difficult season or a different season as opposed to a difficult season. So thanks everybody. And, uh, we will definitely catch you next time.