Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - The Vikings red zone defense saves the day against the New York Jets

Episode Date: December 4, 2022

Matthew Coller and Paul Hodowanic talk about the Vikings' 27-22 win over the New York Jets which, unsurprisingly, came down to the final play. Why did the Vikings look so good in the first half and struggle so much in the second? Did the Jets defense show the weaknesses of the Vikings' offense? What happens to the defense in the biggest moments when they are able to come through. And why we're analyzing everything through a Super Bowl lens now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Purple Insider is presented by Liquid Death, delicious water that's bringing death to plastic. Learn more at liquiddeath.com slash insider. Hello, welcome into the Minnesota Vikings actually can keep getting away with this post-game podcast. Matthew Collar, along with Paul Hodowanek, also we are streaming on YouTube. If any of you are watching there, then welcome to this, where we have the same conversation we have been having after almost every Minnesota Vikings game. It really is mind-blowing, Paul Hodowanek, that the Vikings can get up against Mike White, who I jokingly in my recap called generic Jets quarterback X, and then get up by so much that you think, okay, now this is the one. This is the one where they run away, they win by three scores. They cruise to victory and we all go home early without any tension. We don't have to feel any tightness. There is no gripping the side of the chairs and eating big play after big play in the second half,

gets down to the goal line and the Vikings find a way and are a little bit assisted by a drop in the end zone as they have been this season by other teams when they have that chance to come back completely against the Vikings and they can't quite do it. So here we stand with this team at 10 and two still with a point differential that would be reflective of maybe a six or seven win team. It's just, I don't even know what to say anymore, Paul, but it's really funny that, you know, we talk about all of these regression things and these close games will eventually start going against them. But one thing we know is that it doesn't have to doesn't have to anytime soon and we will talk about every part of this

thing we'll talk about the offense and how much it struggled today what kirk cousins had a very very tough day and got beat up we will talk about the difference in the defense between the first half that looked like it was going to have maybe its best performance of the year and then the second half where it was big play after big play after big play and then the clutchiness which has been so clutch and was so clutch again and a big play this time coming from Cam Bynum who has done a very nice job as their starting safety so another wild one Paul what is your reaction? I think I knew this beforehand, but it really crystallized today. The Vikings are just incapable of playing a complete game. They just, they can't string it together for more than two quarters, three quarters.

They're going to have the inevitable, it now seems, lull where they either let a team back in or let them take a bigger lead than they already had it's just this team is maddening I wanted to come on here I thought I was going to come on here and for the first time just have glowing things to say and just say you know that was an all-around really good team win uh but it just feels for whatever reason whether it's coaching roster we can get into why they just seemingly can't put it together for four quarters. They just, they can't do it through the first half. I thought this was going to be that coast. They are taking a defense that's top five in scoring defense.

I believe was sixth in EPA per play on defense and really moving the ball successfully. 20 points in a half is nothing to scoff at. If you look at their past performances, they were beaten up on teams defensively. And so you're thinking, okay, they're probably going to score 30, 35, and this is going to look like a really nice, productive game, despite Kirk Cousins having some erratic throws and things in there. You thought still they were going to be able to do that. And then they go punt, punt, touchdown, or punt, punt, punt, touchdown, punt, punt.

They punted five of the six drives in the second half. And that's how you let a team back into the game, even when their quarterback is Mike White, who I don't know if it was the defense that turned him into looking like a goat, or if this is just the second week in a row of Mike White showing he's a pretty competent NFL starter that can move the ball efficiently. And if you give him time can do some stuff, but my overall takeaway is they, they're incapable of complaint playing these complete games.

And I'll say it over and over again. It just feels like if they're going to get to the playoffs at some point, they're going to need to do it. And it would be nice to see them show it one time in the regular season. Even a team like the lions just went in beat down on the Jaguars today. There have been no such games for the Vikings. There has not been one game where they just put a team away in the third quarter and can kind of breeze on through unless you're going to count that opening game against the Packers.

But that is so long ago. It feels like even a different season. They have not shown, even against the worst opponents, the best opponents, any opponent in between, that they're incapable at any point of putting a team away and eventually that has to matter but they continue to get away with it and so they obviously did some big things to do that the defense came up with stops on five of six red zone trips and forcing field goals time and time and time again that obviously helped the defense was 3 and 16 on third and down. So really opportune playing two turnovers. Like, so there are reasons to point to about why they won this game.

But overwhelmingly, I just have this sense of dread of at some point they're, they just have to put it together and they need to at least show it one time for me to believe that they're capable of doing it when it's important. And this game felt like one of those opportunities and they just weren't able to do it. Yeah. And I look at the box score and I can't help but wonder how they even scored as many points as they did because when you look at kirk cousins and the way that he passed the ball today i mean 21 for 35 173 and a touchdown an 82 quarterback rating he was sacked a couple times he was hit a bunch of times and this made me think though pa, that a playoff game in U.S.

Bank Stadium in round one is probably going to look like this. And whether you win it or not, we'll come down to whether Cam Bynum picks the ball off, whether the guy drops the ball in the end zone, whether they make a stuff in the middle, which they did a couple of times. I mean, the Jets had first down and four at the goal line to go ahead in this game and they ended up getting the stop. And I look around and week after week, it's like always kind of someone different on the defense. And you would think that all of them could bring it together for four quarters, that they have enough talent there. I mean, you saw at the end of the game, the way that Daniil Hunter got after Mike White and caused him a couple of times to speed up a little bit and make bad throws and inaccurate

throws. Like, why wasn't that happening throughout the entire second half? And of course, we've seen it from Zedarius Smith. And at times, again, their run defense was very good with Delvin Tomlinson back in there. But then they allow a 48 yard run down the sideline. You go like, uh, did you not think that was coming? Or like at some point that they were going to kind of do one of those sweeps or handoffs to the outside, um, getting up by as much as they did at one point, what, 20 to three in the first half,

that just seems like, okay, no lead is safe. If you can't hold that one against the third quarterback that the New York jets have played. But I I, I, it kind of always comes back to why is the defense this way? And Harrison Smith was in the locker room joking after the game, like, Hey, well, you know, you know, you give up a lot of yards, but that's not what matters. It's the points that matter. But I have to think that most teams, if you give them six trips into the red zone, they won't only score a touchdown once. I mean, the way that the jets were able to move the ball throughout, especially the second half,

but even a little bit in the first half where they got drives going, and then they just kept sort of stepping on their own feet where Tyler Conklin dropped multiple balls, where they had opportunities to continue drives going on a third down. He dropped one on a fourth down. And then I guess apropos that they drop it in the end zone on fourth down with a chance to potentially go ahead. But these are things that we would normally say you can't really rely on the other team, just dropping the ball in the end zone, dropping the ball in big situations, but they kind of have in one way or another, whether it's been relying on the special teams play, you know, kick return

for touchdown last week or a fumble Arizona when Arizona had a chance. And then this week, it's the drop passes that end up coming back to haunt the Jets and then just the general inability to get into the end zone. But when you look at how this was played, you look at the box score, you look at which team played better. There's really no question that the New York Jets played better. And we were kind of looking earlier this year at those expected points based on how you played yardage wise and things like that. And the Vikings didn't have a winning record. Like, well, yeah, this was just like another one of those games today where the Jets did a lot of things better than them, especially on defense and the way they got after Kirk Cousins, which has to be a massive concern still every single week and for the playoffs in the future

that you're just going to allow your quarterback to get smashed. And for the first time, I know I'm kind of all over the place here, Paul, but for the first time, I actually thought Kirk Cousins could get injured today. I mean, usually he's so good at protecting himself that I don't think that. Like, oh, he'll get rid of the ball, and he's got this amazing record of health throughout his career. But today, the way that the Jets got after him, like if you play Washington again, for example,

or even the New York Giants have a very good defensive line. We know this about the San Francisco 49ers. We know this about the Dallas Cowboys. Like the teams that you will eventually play in the playoffs have great defensive lines. You're going to have to beat a team with a great D line. At some point, it probably will look like this. You're going to have to find ways to grind it out. And when you get a lead to hold that lead, which is as much about the offense as it is about the defense. And that's why when we always play this sort of blame game of, and it wasn't them or wasn't them for the reason that they let the other team back in the game. I think you saw today, Kevin O'Connell get pretty scared of the way that the jets defensive line was beating the Vikings offensive line.

They started just handed off. This is a team that our buddy, Sam Ekstrom, look this up, has not handed off that often on second down and 10, but they did it a bunch of times in the second half of this game. You could tell that they were very worried about an interception, a big strip sack or something like that in the second half. And I think that if you're going to go deep in the playoffs, if you're going to continue to win these games, these last five, and like you said, Detroit is no joke to be able to beat them would be impressive the way that they've been playing the last few weeks, but you also have

to play some good defensive lines. Indy has a good defensive line. They play a lot of close games. Like there has to be a counter to when the opponent has a better D line than you. And I think that we sort of said, Oh, problem solved after New England. And today was, oh, not so much problem solved. Yeah. I think I would push back on your point that the Jets played better than the Vikings. I think obviously in the second half they did, I think by EPA per play, they're about the same. And I think generally that's kind of what happened. I think both teams, the Vikings controlled the first half, the Jets controlled the second half, and it came down to those small red zone situations, the turnovers, the third down percentage, like some of those factors then is what pushed it over the edge

for the Vikings. But I agree, if you're playing even with the Jets at home, that is, although the Jets are an above average team, that is an issue if your team has serious aspirations of making it to a Super Bowl, which at 10 and two is the only way your eyes should be trained. That's where you should be looking. You're 10 and two. There's no reason to look anywhere else

other than say, we should try to make the Super Bowl this year. We can make the Super Bowl this year. But yeah, I mean, I think clearly what I'm seeing more and more is those deficiencies are just going to pop up every once every once in a while like every there's going to be at least one drive per game where the offensive line just completely takes them out of it and there's going to be a three and out that's almost solely the fault of the offensive line that just can't block down the field and they are going to have something like that happen there's also going to be a series where you're just dropping them or Kirk

Cousins is overthrowing guys. He overthrows Hawkinson when Hawkinson is wide open down the middle of the field. At one point, he had several throws where you're thinking, okay, that probably should be a back shoulder pass. It's kind of more towards the center or it's vice versa.

He's just a little bit off here and there. And I think what we're seeing is over and over again, these smaller deficiencies that the team has, or in the case of the offensive line, kind of a big alarming deficiency, just they're going to have their drives here and there. And clearly they all kind of compounded in the second half when the Jets started to feel some momentum and they started to really kind of understand

that they could take over the Vikings offensive line. The Jets defensive line could take over the Vikings offensive line. I Jets defensive line could take over the Vikings offensive line. I think it just happens like that for this Vikings team. And I don't know if they're capable of really kind of minimizing those big question marks for a full game. And I think we're seeing that time and time again. So yes, I think the offensive line was an issue. I think the Vikings got their running game going pretty much better than they

have really in any of these more recent games. They were more successful off of success rate. They were more successful on early downs running it than they were passing it. So that's telling you something when you're running the ball with ease. And I thought there were a couple of drives where they probably could have run the ball even a little bit more when they were stalling out on certain occasions. And then maybe on that final drive, throwing the ball on third and third down would have made sense to try to go and end the game. They end the game later on defense anyways. So I think there are just these small nits to pick here and there that

continue to kind of pop up every week. Like they're not going away. This defense now has, is kind of being characterized by the fact that they're saying we don't give up big plays, but they are giving up big plays kind of Matt Jones got them for several big massive plays Garrett Wilson had them for several plays almost burned Patrick Peterson on that last drive or did burn Patrick Peterson he just didn't get the ball in his hands there so it's again just those slim margins

that they're playing on and so when they play about the same as their opponent which I think they did against the Jets it just comes down to those coin flips and the coin flips continue to go the Vikings way. And I think at some point we acknowledge that the Vikings are doing certain things for those coin flips to be more advantageous for them, but they're also forcing some of those things to be more 50-50 than they need to be. This game didn't need to be 50-50 in the hands of a final drive, yet it was because of deficiencies along the offense and deficiencies along the defense. And you're left kind of just scratching your head

and saying this team is 10-2, but it doesn't look 10-2, but they continue to do this. And so it's just this seesaw that we're back on all year, and it feels like within a game, within a drive, within a play, even we're going back and forth, back and forth. And that's just the way the team's going to be. Well, the EPA per play thing, I mean, that would really factor in heavily things that can be a little bit noisy in

an individual game. So like the interception would really jump the Vikings EPA per play up at the very end or the goal line stop and so forth. But when you look at the sort of run of play here and where they ended up 486 yards for the jets to 287 for the Minnesota Vikings, it was all the noisy stuff that got the jets. I mean, the penalties, they took a ton of penalties on a single drive. They had three very killer penalties that helped the Vikings get into the end zone. And then those third downs, like those are something that, I mean, maybe with Mike White, they're not random because he's not Patrick Mahomes,

but normally you wouldn't expect a team to go three for 16 on third downs. Normally, if you're, you know, in that many situations, you'd figure like 40% of them with the number of playmakers that they have, which we really saw Garrett Wilson and why everybody in New York is very high on Garrett Wilson because he can make some plays. And even Corey Davis came in at the end after totally botching the first drive with a ball bouncing off of his body into Harrison Smith's hands. That's, again, sort of the random stuff where the Jets lost the game.

But throughout, especially in the second half it was big play explosive play after explosive play and when you're a bend don't break defense we could just throw those words out the window because they break constantly I mean they give up big play after big play and then get down into the red zone and even when Garrett Wilson like didn't score us like oh well I guess they'll just give up a field goal here I mean mean, I can't remember if that was one, there was so, there were so many of them, if that was one where they actually did plow into the end zone, but even when they got in the end zone, it took a review. Uh, there is probably something to the Vikings having enough talent on the defensive side, enough, really good players to where they can like settle in, in the red zone

and read plays correctly and make a big knockdown or something like that. But also, if you're relying on that game after game, that will break on you eventually, and I don't think that that is something you can rely on. So I think that if we talk about what should sort of concern you about what we just saw and what maybe you think you're totally fine with. The fact that once again, Justin Jefferson was taken out of a game when the opposing defensive

line played really well. We saw this happen against Miami for a good part of that game, against Washington for a good part of that game, the entire night in Dallas. And then here again, it is the only way to solve Justin Jefferson because even Sauce Gardner had to grab his arms if he didn't want him to run by. And then he made great catches again today. But when you look at the end of the day, they weren't able to put away the game with Justin Jefferson the way they did

against the New England Patriots. And I think the Patriots were built a little bit different. Like they have one great pass rusher in Matthew Judon who's very dangerous, but this is a team that has everything. They've sent multiple dudes in there. Quinn and Williams just took over the game from the interior. And that was cousins throwing inaccurately, looking uncomfortable. And if you look at his box score, tell me that doesn't look like when they went to San Francisco in 2019 and lost to the playoffs because it was a very

similar type of game to this only in that game the Vikings didn't get breaks like San Francisco finished off drives and so forth and I think that's maybe the most disturbing part is on both sides of the ball where they couldn't move the ball consistently because they were getting blown up on the interior and then on the defensive side, how consistently the Jets, every time they got the ball back, were finding big play after big play to move the ball down the field. If you were talking about, say, like a Washington game where it was a really weird play, the guy launches the ball down the field,

and the referee tackles Cam by him, and that's how they got their touchdown. Like, okay, I get it. That's super random, and I understand after that game, people thought we were a little harsh or whatever, but you watch this one and you look at the yardage differential and I, you know, it was kind of a lot like Miami, except for this time, the jets had two legitimate shots at just punching the ball in from your red zone and then winning the game. And it wouldn't have been the end of the world that we probably would have said like, okay, look, these things happen. It's going to be a little bit rocky toward the end, probably of the season where they have some ups and downs because everything

went their way. And at the end, everything did go their way. But when the New York jets, a team that has one of the worst offenses in the NFL and and Mike White is clearly not Manning or Brady, when they put up that many yards, when you can't even keep them from moving it up and down the field on you when you have a two-score or even three-score lead, you have to go, okay, well, there's going to be teams that you have to play that have Jalen Hurts and A.J. Brown and Dak Prescott and Debo Samuel, like some of the great players in the league are on these playoff teams. And I don't know exactly what the answer is for this

defense to not give up plays like this and have to rely so much on just the red zone and just turnovers, but they have five games to figure it out. And I thought today might be a real opportunity for them. I think that's why you kind of walk away with a weird taste in your mouth after this one, where you're like 10 and two. Wow. But also at the same time, like Mike white and they almost put up 500 yards.

That's, that's just not instilling a lot of confidence. And it's weird because the locker room is talking about how confident they are in all the biggest moments. And they should be based on the way that this is gone. And yet, can you be confident in a defense that gives up yardage like this? And after today may rank dead last in the entire NFL in yardage allowed.

And I did look this up. Don't think I wouldn't. I looked over the last, since 2010, how many teams allowed over six yards per play that reached the Superbowl. The answer is one, their quarterback was Tom Brady and they outscored teams by 170 points. Don't think that's quite comparable to this. So there are answers that have to be found. And throughout the first half, like you, see, I didn't start writing. I've gotten wise to this. I did not start writing, but I was formulating a narrative in my head. What am I going to say after the game?

And I was thinking about like, hey, this is what they needed. They needed this game where they kind of made Mike White look stupid. And they, you know, covered Garrett Wilson and got rolling. But now I don't really know. Like, I don't think on any week that you can say, or any lead that you can say, Oh, they've got this. They're going to be able to hold this down.

And they're about as healthy as they could possibly be at this moment. Although a Caleb Evans left with another concussion, which is really concerning, but they will get cam Dantzler back at some point, but this is as healthy as you could ever ask your defense to be. And yet that still happens. And I think that the onus, Paul, and tell me what you think of this,

is really on the offense. Like your defense will not be able to, it's just the reality of the thing. It will not be able to hold the lead unless you put the gas pedal down and have long drives. I know Kevin O'Connell looked like he was certainly trying to do this, like grind it out a little, get some short passes.

Long drives, put up more points, try to run away from teams offensively because this isn't 2017 where you could just hand it off a couple times, let your number one defense slow the other team down. I think that's where they have to be finishers is on the offensive side because the defensive side is just probably not going to happen. Folks, the more I talk about liquid death here on the offensive side and and because the defensive side is probably not going to happen folks the more i talk about liquid death here on the show the more i'm starting to see it everywhere just the other day i was watching a chess tournament presented by liquid death and at first glance it looked like the players might have been playing drunk chess with beers but no that is liquid death mountain water in the tall boy can. The reason that this delicious water comes in such a large can is because they're trying to bring death to plastic.

Most plastics still end up in landfills because they are not profitable to recycle, unlike aluminum. But liquid death is giving 10% of their profits to end plastic bottles. The best part for you, of course, is that it gets colder faster than plastic in the refrigerator too. So check it out. It's your local grocery store water aisle at Hy-Vee, Target, Whole Foods, and lots of other stores. You can see them at liquiddeath.com slash insider. That's liquiddeath.com slash insider. yeah i mean in the nfl nowadays like good offense beats good defense every time great offense beats great defense every time so whatever you whatever word you want to describe this vikings defense with like they need often like they're gonna get beat it's just the reality

of where it is and i think largely defense is more of kind of that weak link system that we look at. So it's great that you have Zedaria Smith. It's great that you have Harrison Smith playing very well. And you, it's great that you're having resurgent season from Patrick Peterson, but when a Caleb Evans goes down and it's Duke Shelley, and then they can keep picking on him, like that's what's going to happen. Or they can pick on Shannon Sullivan, or they can really pick on like any singular player along the secondary because some of them are good some of them are above average but none of them are stoppers in any sense of the word and so if you're not generating that pass rush which it feels like Mike White sacked only one time for three yards today in this game they're not generating that

kind of bruising pass rush with Zedaria, just wrecking the game each and every play. Like, I don't think it was fair to assume Zedaria was going to do that all year. I think he's been way better than expected. He's been a game changer along the defensive line, but you just can't expect that type of production from a singular player time in and time again. And so when that happens, it just has to go on the offense. It's just the way that the NFL works. Now, defense is going to give up points, even the best defenses. So the Vikings defense is sure going to give up points.

And I thought based on their limitations, I mean, going one for six in the red zone, like the Vikings got the most out of that performance that they possibly could. The defense eked out every single like bit of that performance that they could have like it was only going to get worse than what they did today based on having two turnovers and three of 16 on third down like 22 points was kind of the least that the Jets could have scored so now it's on your offense and so when you punt five of six times in the second half that is just not a winning winning formula no matter how many times you score in the first half no matter how big your lead's going to be because at some point like the Vikings defense kind of look tired as they're just

continually out on the field over and over and over again the Jets won the time of possession by just a couple minutes uh but it certainly in the second half felt like a lot lot more than that I'd love to see the split I'm sure it was much much more favored towards the Jets it just you can't be that unbalanced in a half where your offense is just constantly giving the ball back over and over and over again. So I do, I think it falls along the offense and it just wasn't getting the opportune plays

in the pass game. Again, Cousins just seemed like a sliver off and he was getting absolutely battered in there, just getting hit after hit after hit. So I don't necessarily blame him for missing a lot of these throws, but it again, comes down to the offense of what can you do in these big moments? How can you kind of elevate yourselves? And I didn't really think they did a lot of elevating today. Justin Jefferson caught the balls that he should have caught her

cousins for the most part, made the plays that kind of were out there in front of him for him to make, but they didn't go above and beyond. They didn't kind of were out there in front of him for him to make, but they didn't go above and beyond. They didn't kind of take a situation and really turn it on its head. Davin Cook played well, but like nothing was exceptional about the way the offense played. And at some point you have to do exceptional things, especially against really sound defenses like the Jets are. That just, it has to happen, and this Vikings offense just didn't do it consistently enough. It's sort of funny that the Vikings have run through the entire AFC East, and they beat all of them. And it's one of the best divisions, if not the best division in football. And with

each win in the postgame, we were kind of like, huh? Except for New England. I mean, I thought that was a really good win. I think I declared it last week, sort of like their best win of the season. Not their craziest. That was in Buffalo, for sure. And Buffalo's the strongest team. Miami also was such a wild game. But the inconsistency on both sides of the field, where that's how you end up sort of ranked in the middle of the league and stuff,

is where every week you're kind of up and down even throughout a game. And we can go ranked in the middle of the league and stuff is where every week you're kind of up and down even throughout a game and we can go through all the games against the AFC East and they all had that to them like in Miami it took until what like third quarter fourth quarter before they finally started to break out in that one the most complete game was probably against New England but they still gave up 382 yards passing to Mack Jones, which if you can give up the amount of yardage passing to Mack Jones and Mike White, those are probably the lowest end of quarterbacks that you're ever going to face. Like how much confidence is there that they can play against the better quarterbacks when Jalen Hurts and Dak Prescott both really took care of

business against them. And that's why it comes back to, you cannot have on offense, Justin Jefferson disappearing from the offense almost entirely in the second half of the game. And like we praise the play action stuff and so forth, but guess who else saw them run all the play actions Robert Sala did. And they had answers for that today. I mean, I was very impressed by the jets on their defensive side.

I mean, they played extremely physical. They're a very violent team. And I thought for the most part, they schemed extremely well against this Vikings team. And they sort of knew that even if they gave up some runs, that their big guys could eventually sort of toughen up and get those stops. And, you know, they set for a lot. They didn't blitz Kirk cousins a lot. They were able to get after him with four, which is always one of those like kryptonites of the Vikings. And so you expect when you're playing one of the best defenses in the NFL for there to be some issues.

But I think that the maybe the most concerning thing about the offense. And again, we should always kind of sort of pull it back out and again, say like they beat everyone in the AFC East. Like that is impressive. Like, don't get me wrong. It's just that the way we talk about this team has changed. Everything is not through the lens of could they be for real? No, they've proven they're for real.

It's are you for real enough compared to the rest of the playoff teams and what can be problems? What do you need to be solved? What can't be solved? And when it comes to the offensive consistency and being able to overcome good defenses, that's something that has to be solved because they have the talent to do it. And we talk about the health, the entire offense is healthy. You're missing no players whatsoever. And yet still you were kind of held down today outside of two.

They played largely well in the first half and then it just goes away like they've shown against the Patriots and the Bills and the Jets all three like top 10 defenses they have these moments so that's what you cling to you say we have these moments now where is it for more than just a half right they had two of these grindy drives that went like six plus minutes where you went like yes this is it this is what you have to do against this team because you're not going to hit on 40 or 50 yard passes. They came close on one, but you're not going to hit on those passes very often against a defensive line that's so good. So do you have these answers when the other team is is ahead of you on the defensive line? And I think that the answer was sort of like yes and no, mostly no, but only yes a couple of times. And one of those drives had three penalties by the New York Jets,

who may have set the first half record for flags. Although I think Miami actually did that against the Vikings earlier this year. So that's why everything is kind of talked about differently here when you played a playoff style team. And I think talent wise, the New York Jets are a playoff style team. They're somebody like wise, the New York jets are a playoff style team. There's somebody like maybe a comparable team to Washington where they're not up at the very top of the league, but they're, they're a contender.

They're a competitor. I should say, I don't know about a contender, but a competitor with the amount of talent that they have on their team and to see how well they were able to slow down the Vikings offense by getting after the quarterback. I think that you have to, as the Vikings, be looking at, all right, with the interior pass rush, what are we going to do here? And we talk about it every single week.

What are you going to do here? And I don't know if it was just one guy or if it was everybody. It was probably everybody today getting beat with the amount of pressure that they created against Kirk Cousins. But there has to be an answer there or that is going to be a problem later. And I think we really saw that. And we saw the skittish Cousins against that interior pressure that we've seen so many times. And this was, I think, his worst performance of the entire year. I mean, passes were inaccurate. He got hit really hard. He threw his own brain into someone else, which is just a generally very bad idea. Cousins sort of towing the line between being gutsy and trying to win and actually potentially really hurting yourself.

And I even wondered about that. Like, is he actually OK after the way that he went helmet to helmet with CJ Mosley there? And then the MVP of this season, I don't care what anybody says, it is Kirk Cousins' rib protector. He has taken so many shots to the ribs this year. And that's a worry as well because if Kirk Cousins is 100% healthy, he can get the ball to Justin Jefferson and go down the stretch and play extremely well. I think last year he got banged up a little bit at the end of the year.

We didn't really hear about it. He's not one that's going to come out and be on the injury report or talk about where he's getting beat up. But maybe for the first time in a long time, we saw him actually kind of hobbling off the field a little bit, getting up like, whoa, I am taking some shots here. And if you don't have a healthy Kirk Cousins, you're not going to win. So what are the answers though? I mean, that's the thing about these games is when you play the same game over and over and we kind of hunt around, like, should you bench the guard or what's happening here? Why, why is this going on? Should you run bootlegs? Well, then the other team says, ah, we're going to send our blitzers off that side where you're bootlegging, or we're going to like Carl Lawson just crushed him one time.

And sauce Gardner had a blitz that got in his face one time like other teams are going to game plan for those play actions and things like that and even the quick passes when we know we're getting after you we can play tighter on those quick passes and the Jets are good tackling team a number of times they tackled the Vikings receiver as soon as they caught the ball and they weren't able to get yards after catch that maybe they have before and I mean is the answer more Jalen Rager who had his sort of uh you're a Minnesota Viking moment with a 38 yard catch and then a nice little end around I don't know it does seem like they're probing for some answers though on both sides because Brian Asamoah played a little bit today

Josh Metellus played a little bit today and then we saw Rager mixing in because the KJ Osborne experiment has just not really worked pretty much at all. And then you have to ask questions on both sides of the ball with Kevin O'Connell and game planning and adjustments and didn't really have a counterpunch today. And of course, on the defensive side, I think everybody's looking at Ed Donatell saying like, what, what is this? I mean, you can't just like have your guys tighten up in the red zone every time. Like this has to, this has to be better. But, but as we get to this, these conversations, there's always a point in the road where I go, I don't know if I have an answer though. I don't know if I have an answer. I think the answer literally is you have to play like this and you just have to come through in those big moments because these

are the types of games you're going to play. Yeah. I, I, I think we've locked ourselves into these are the games they're going to play the rest of the way. And it's, it really does just come down to those final moments and how they can make a few things happen. I think offensively, you could see them hoping that the run game was it for them today. They need to find a weapon outside of Justin Jefferson that teams care about. They need anything because Jefferson, despite being kind of that one thing that everyone knows in a pickle, that's where you're going. He still performs, but you you gotta have another thing because Justin Jefferson occasionally is gonna drop a pass that he shouldn't make or he makes a tries to dive for

a ball that he probably could have catched and we maybe think he should based on how good he is and he doesn't like those are just kind of the 50th percentile outcomes that are going to happen in a game so where else do you go and in the first half it was the run game and it was very very fruitful for them and so I think they see that and they see the potential of how that can help them and so maybe they feel like hey against a really solid Jets front that's something that can be sustained throughout the rest of the season and maybe we can have opponents fear our running game a little bit because I don't know if it really was. I think teams were kind of concerned about it in the way that they're concerned about any run game,

but not overly concerned about if we don't load the box, they're just going to gash us. Like they're not, that's not where this running game's at. So can they find that? I think you're hoping Hawkinson could be that. I think he's shown to be a very, very valuable safety valve, a very valuable piece for the Vikings, but he isn't that punisher, that game wrecker type player. He's just a really, really nice, solid player to have on your team. And you obviously want him. And that's a move that was smart to make, but it isn't a game changing move. And I think, although the run game can't be game changing in the way that the past

game can, if they can find sustained success on the ground, like they can just have a drive where they're just punching it up the gut over and over and they just impose their will. I think that goes a long way for having this team and kind of being able to put away a team if you can run the ball like that. But I think in the second half, the Jets kind of knew that they wanted to run the ball and suddenly those runs weren't doing as well. And so I think it's just all about, can we find that? And so I see them, they toy with Jalen Rager, they toy with Asamoah on the other side of the ball when they're trying to do that. They're just trying to find how can we get X factors in this game? Because we've kind of tapped out the potential of what we can do with Justin Jefferson. And it's amazing, but it's just not going to be sustainable week in and week out. So these are the luxuries they have being 10 and two that they can try these things. And if they

don't work, they can lose games and it's still not going to hurt them. Um, but you want to maintain some positive momentum and you'd like to see one of those options kind of come up and say that we can see moving forward as something. And at least on the offensive side of the ball, I don't know if the run game did enough today for me to believe that it can do that sustainably consistently. I think that needs to be something we see week in and week out for the next couple of weeks before I'm ready to say, yeah, the Vikings really can control a game on the ground. I don't think that's in their kind of range of ability at this point. I think it could be, but we haven't seen it. And if we haven't seen it, I just can't believe it's going to be a thing as we move on further, further down the line. That is S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K.com code insider for all of your holiday shopping.

I think what they need to do is they need to call Gary Kubiak and say, Gary, here's what we need from you. So we tried the boots. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. Okay. All right. But here's what we need.

We need your screen package. Send us the screen. I mean this because you think about 2019. I can remember a handful of games where Kirk Cousins was getting pressured. Kansas City was one of them, and I know they lost on a last-second field goal, but they were able to hang in that game with some short passes, but a lot of them were screets. And I feel like this has been a great counterpunch in the

past where with Delvin cook, where it's like, okay, the interior, they're very aggressive and they're getting in Kirk cousins face. And then, okay, they hit them with a screen and then boom, it's like 30 or 40 yards. They get an explosive play out of it. And then the whole rest of the day, the other team has to be like, Oh no, you might throw a screen. Like every time you get your offensive lineman moving, it might just not be capable with this offensive line of doing things like that. And I get you good in the screen game, but it seems like they're athletic enough. And I know Christian Derrissaw is out. That's a big part of this too, that they have to make sure if Christian Derrissaw has to sit the rest of the season to be able to play in the playoffs then go ahead and do that and also it does need to be brought up they are two for two

and guys getting concussions coming back and getting more concussions and the question now has to be asked after the second one I think the first one I get it like okay well just bad break for Christian Derrissaw but now it happened again so like are you guys I'm sure they're following the protocols but are you guys maybe being cautious enough even outside of the protocols because now that you have this lead and this chance to roll down the stretch I mean you can make sure that someone like that is 100 you can't have Blake Brando playing even Kevin O'Connell was threatening to play Ole Udo at left tackle because we've seen sort of enough of Blake Brando. And they might end up doing that next week. I didn't notice them doing that at all today, but they

might have to do that next week with the way that the Jets were able to consistently pressure Kirk Cousins. But it just feels like that answer. And in 2017, Pat Shermer was really good at this. I remember a close game with Detroit where they hit a screen pass to, I think it was Jarek McKinnon for a big game. It's like, oh no, like that sort of makes the other team really have to kind of be hesitant that every time they gun up field that, oh, they might dink in or dunk it over our head and go off for a big play. This has been a horrendous screen game. If you were looking it up, don't worry. I already did.

Second worst quarterback in the NFL on screen plays. And screen plays are not on the quarterback. That's not on Kirk Cousins. That is on the coaching and the execution. So that might be something. And on the defensive side, I don't know what the answer is because it's not going to be blitz. And the funny thing about this is early in the game, I thought that on a few key downs, Ed Donatello dialed it up and I was like, oh, okay. Message received then a Eddie. Uh, uh, no,

like as the game went on, it was less blitzing and less aggressiveness. And they were able to hit, uh, on numerous times. And like Mike White just didn't look like he was very shook until the very end of the game when Daniil Hunter got after him. But we've seen this throughout the league. You can look at all the numbers. This will tell you the answer to this. I mean, when opposing quarterbacks have clean pockets anywhere in the NFL, they are going to put up good numbers. You have to pressure the quarterback. And if he just straight up refuses to blitz, well, then this is what you're going to get.

And look, we had Duke Shelley playing again today. At some point, Cam Dantzler might come back. And that now seems very important as well, that Dantzler should be coming back and coming off IR soon, that these little dings and cuts, every time you get one, it seems to hurt you pretty big because when Delvin Tomlinson was out, they did okay against the run, but they didn't get any pressure whatsoever up the middle with Dantzler out opposing teams have really attacked

those backup corners and had a ton of success. So the health of the team, as we go through these next number of games ends up being very important. But, you know, I guess, you know, before we wrap it up here, Paul, with this post game is, were we impressed with stuff? Like, I mean, I think that it's totally fair to have a reaction to this game. Like, okay, guys, that was way too close. And that can't happen when you get to the playoffs. And there are some things to be solved here. But as far as things that impress you about the way that they beat a team that has a chance to end up being in the playoffs. Yeah. I mean, it is some of those noisy things that we talked about, but I wrote about it earlier in the year, a place where the Vikings defense was breaking was the red zone. They were one of the worst teams by football outsiders, DVOA, and by just percentage of touchdowns, you were giving up. It was the

worst in the league that was earlier in the season. I forget what week I wrote that, but so for them to come out and go one for six in the red zone, and some of that is you're getting a drop from Braxton Berrios and a penalties backing you up. But some of that was just solid play down in there. And so that is something that they weren't doing earlier in the year that they did get to convert and they did play well in spurts today. And obviously for most of it, and they needed that review on the one kind of Mike white QB sneak to even allow a touchdown.

So that's a stingy spot to be. And so while I don't necessarily know how sustainable that is week after week after week, it was impressive what they were continuously able to do at that point in the field. And so that I think is impressive. I think the way that the offense played in the first half was impressive because I like we've given the Jets defense some flowers, but there are really, really good defense. Like there aren't that many better defenses that they're going to play.

Sauce Gardner is already one of the best cornerbacks in the league. They have Qu and Williams. They just, they have so many good pieces along that defensive front and kind of along that entire defense. And they're obviously well-coached with Robert Sala. So like, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing if you don't play well against

that defense. So like the fact that they kind of sputtered at points, I don't like, I think that kind of happens for some of these teams. It was just the way they sputtered and kind of sputtered at points i don't like i think that kind of happens for some of these teams it was just the way they sputtered and when they sputtered that was so kind of confounding and really cost them the game but i think in that first half they played really well and i think again that is kind of the third game in a row against the stingy defense where this offense has shown itself in spurts to play really really well and now it's just about consistency so

i think you can love some of the flashes you saw on both sides of the ball, but it's overwhelming. And like, you can't ignore that seemingly from kind of drive to drive, it can kind of disappear on them. But I don't want to sound like this. They played horrible today. Like they had their moments. It was just not enough of them and not enough of them kind of in that second half.

And then they finally kind of, the defense was able to pull it out at the end. So if I'm going to point to something, it is kind of that stinginess that they had down in the red zone. It just doesn't feel as good to say that when I know that it's not that kind of repeatable or that's hard to just repeat one out of six, even for the best red zone teams is like an amazing, amazing result.

Like an average result for a good defense is you probably allow like three touchdowns out of those six opportunities. And even then you're looking like, Hey, we stopped them half the time when they got in there. Like that's pretty solid. So I like what they did there. It just doesn't feel super sustainable. Yeah. I think the answer is Greg Joseph, Paul. That was really the answer is that, Hey, everybody could get off Greg Joseph's back for a week. Now he made a 50 plus seven on 50 plus. So I don't know. He nailed it. Okay. And the extra points were good. Hey, if Greg Joseph wasn't on his game today, they might've lost.

So no, I mean, truly I have felt like you just have to ride out the Greg Joseph thing because even though he has had some ups and downs and missed some extra points and some 50 plus that going out and trying to find a new kicker at this point is a very dangerous game. So good for you, Greg Joseph, that he got it back together and there were no snafus when it came to that. And that did end up actually being important in this game because you miss, you know, two of those kicks. And all of a sudden you're talking about a field goal that the Jets would have needed. I mean, even if he misses the 50 yard or then you're talking about the Jets being able to tie the game with a field goal instead of needing a touchdown when it comes to the red zone defense.

I think one of the most important things for them is that their beef in the middle is just very beefy. I mean, it is really hard to run directly up the middle on this team. Even when Mike White got in the end zone on his QB sneak, he was bounced sort of to the outside and just barely by inches got in. I did not think they got screwed on that. I thought he was in. But still, he was not able to just push straight up the middle. And when opposing teams this season have had a chance to just think about this first and four at the goal line to just hand the ball off,

go back to Detroit where it's fourth down, just hand the ball off. The game is over. Buffalo had multiple chances at this where they could just hand the ball off, run up the middle, get a few yards and end the game. And yet Harrison Phillips is a guy I think that deserves a ton of credit for this. Tomlinson being back. Tonga, who's a guy that we're never going to talk about, but they picked up, and he's just this giant mammoth human that they can run in there. Jonathan Bullard at times has been in that. James Lynch has been in that.

The interior against the run has been pretty darn valuable for them. And if another team can just hand it off in the red zone and then run into the end zone, well, things are pretty easy for them then, because then you have to really play the run and it opens up everything else. It opens up the play action and everything, you know, all that. So they deserve a ton of credit for this result is those big guys in the middle that were able to just kind of jam together. I think there is something to what they're talking about as a defense where in the locker room after the game with Eric Hendricks, with Harrison Smith, both of them said, this is a lot of reps in really tense atmospheres and we know how to handle it. And that is true. I think

there is something to that when you have these players and stars and veterans who have been around and players like, you know, Cam Bynum, who is an emerging player for them to get a lot of reps, intense atmospheres and playoff style atmospheres, because toward the end of that game, it felt like that. It felt like two really good teams kind of punching each other in the face a bunch of times. So I don't want to come away from this and say, oh, well, it wasn't a good win because of this or that or the other thing. It's one of those where in the things that are usually not sustainable, you dominate it again, and they have dominated all year. And at some point, you may break with that if you don't fix some things. I think that's the way to look at it, that everyone can walk away from this game going, boy, if you get out gained 480 something to 280 something,

you probably won't win a lot of those games. But today you got a lot of big performances. So I think what you can do is you can separate the, this happened in this game and these people deserve credit for it. Cam Bynum makes a play Harrison Smith jumped up and punched the ball away from Garrett Wilson on a bomb that could have been really good for the New York Jets and stuff like that, where like people deserve their credit for the plays that they made Jefferson, the toe tap. I mean, it was not a big day for Justin Jefferson, but wherever Chris Carter was watching, he was like, my man, because that

was some, and here's the other thing too. Now I know that Vikings fans never take for granted how great their receivers are. If you, if you say Randy Moss, everybody just melts with, with love. Right. So it's not like, Oh, you know, whatever, whatever the jets must've dropped 10 passes today. And it's like 10 balls that Justin Jefferson brings in. The Jets did not. And even like, you know, Thielen, of course, like this is how he's made his career, like brings the ball in. And Hockinson catches almost everything you throw at him. I think he had a drop or two in the Cowboys game, but for the most part, he catches the football. It's like your team really brings the ball in when it's anywhere near them. And that catch specifically,

because it went through my mind on that drive, like, oh, are they going to come all this way and then get stiffed in the red zone and have to kick a field goal? And then the Jets really have a chance here. And instead he comes up with a huge play at a huge time. So everyone deserves all the credit for that. I think it's just trying to make it clear that when we talk about this, it's, this was like a playoff game. And if you win one of those in the first round, okay, that's really good. But I think you, if you get ahead in a playoff game by two scores and you let a Dallas or a Philly or a John or a, um, not the giants necessarily, but, uh, but maybe, you know, San Francisco, you let those teams hang around. They're probably going to be a little bit better, especially at the quarterback position than what

the jets were today with Mike white, uh, or, you know, or it's going to come down to winning games like this, which I don't think you want to, I think like you can ride the magic carpet ride and all the turbulence that goes along with that, but also say, this is not what you want to happen when you get to the playoffs. What you want to happen is you you want to happen. When you get to the playoffs, what you want to happen is you take care of that when you get a two score lead. So I think that they are capable of playing with almost everybody, but I'm not totally convinced it's everybody yet after this week. And every week is going to kind of be a referendum on, are we convinced yet? And then rest your starters at the end i guess and get

everybody as as healthy as they can so that's kind of my final thoughts why don't you give yours paul yeah i think just holistically i think we're talking very much in the micro right now and i think just considering the macro of in this four-week stretch where they played for like definitely kind of playoff caliber teams they ended up three and one and they didn't look pretty in a lot of those games and it's hard to know how much you can take and say all the like the good things they did are going to continue uh but they left that stretch three and one if you want to throw in washington who now looks like a pretty solid team in a playoff team that's four and one in those games and i think at the beginning of that stretch, we probably were looking at that as a best case scenario.

So I think we get very bogged down in the micro as we should, because I think there were certainly concerning things up and down the field today, but you look at it from a macro sense, the Vikings have a chance to clinch outright the division next week earlier than I think like any team has ever clinched a division or something like that or that would have been if they got it done this week if the Lions had lost but I think we can get lost in that a little bit because we've now kind of we've willingly moved the goalposts from we were evaluating this team as a playoff kind of fringe playoff team and we've now had to

move them because of your own success a victim of your own success we've now had to move them to no you're a Super Bowl contender so we're them to know you're a Superbowl contender. So we're going to evaluate you like a Superbowl contender. So these can sound, these post games can sound negative, but it's mostly because we've elevated your floor and we've elevated where you think you can be. And so we're past that now.

And so from a macro sense, I just think the fact that they're 10 and two at this point in the season is not something any of us expected. And I think their Vikings are surely going to have doubters and for a lot of good reasons, probably. Um, but they continue to be 10, they're still 10 and two and they, whether we want to buy it or not, they're confident in themselves and they're confident in these games. And that doesn't mean nothing. Uh, it just like from an outside perspective, we want to kind of bring in this more these more reasoned kind of nuanced looks when the team is just saying hey man we're just we really enjoy

each other and we're kind of feeling it right now so it's it's hard to marry those two things i think we're doing a decent job of it but i i try to remind myself of the macro every once in a while especially on these post games as we get so nittyitty gritty play by play, the fact that they left this really, really tough stretch, uh, three and one, four and one is, is much better than I thought they were going to end up, uh, when, when we kind of initially went into this. And as this has gone along and I think it has been the case, you know, really for weeks now, uh, maybe since Buffalo, but really a week after week, it kind of becomes more and more so is that for fans, there have been some teams in the past that have been competitive

that have been not likable. 2019 is definitely an example of that, where you knew Stephon Diggs wanted to trade. I mean, there was even a report at the end of 2019 that the Vikings could consider trading Mike Zimmer to the Dallas Cowboys. Like that's how tense things were. And they lost these games. Even then in 2019, they played a really easy schedule, but every time they kind of had a playoff team come in here, they got beat. And then it was a bunch of like, well, we're not real or whatever.

And they get the playoff win and it kind of cleared things out for a week. But then they went to San Francisco, got their faces beat in and it was like, well, okay, back to everybody being as miserable as they were before. And Stefan digs more or less in the locker room in San Francisco telling us like, yeah, guys, I'm really going to try to get out of here. I mean, that was, that was not a fun season, even though, even for fans, like, even though they're in the playoffs, just not a fun season. This is much more 2017 ish. I was really reluctant to call it that because of the fact that the Vikings had the number one defense in the NFL in both yards and in points. And that's something that doesn't happen very often. I mean, that's very impressive. And they did it against

some really good offenses where they completely shut them down in games against like the Rams and Atlanta. So the similarities as far as the actual team goes and actually weirdly case Keenum was playing better football than Kirk cousins is right now, which I keep thinking like, all right, well, if he, if he gets on an upswing as he so often does in his career after a downturn, the upswing kind of happened against new England. And then right back down. Like the Kirk coaster is the Kirk coaster and probably always in forever. And they need that swing as they're going into the playoffs of him playing at his absolute best. But the comparison, I think, is more in the locker room where you have a lot of veteran players who really like each other and who are really getting along and who are really buying in. And when Harrison Smith was asked today, like, well, what, you know, why is it that you come through with these big moments? He's like, well,

it's hard to explain for sure, because we, you know, well, if we gave up four yards, would we like be bad all of a sudden? You know what I mean? But he said, starts at the top with Kevin O'Connell and at least by the results, who am I to tell them that they're wrong? I think that each week the team becomes more and more likable, whether it's the kid with the Kirk cousins chains or it's putting the chains on them,

or it's Patrick Peterson just talking trash to Kyler Murray. Cause he can, cause his team's nine and two or whatever, you know, like all these things where this team has become very, very close and comfortable with each other and seemingly believe in, in each other, that even if there are deficiencies, that gives you a chance like that bonding together, uh, is, is pretty cool. I think for fans to watch, because that's

what you want to, you don't want in the hunt graphic. Oh, if you get this eighth win and these 16 teams all lose, well, you're good. You're in. You don't want to be the Steve Karnacki thing where he's pointing at the board and everything. That's who they've been the last two years. Who enjoyed that? Did anyone enjoy that? No.

So, yes, I agree with you. It's sort of speaking to your point that at the same time where we talk about, look, if a defensive line can do that to you and shut down your offense, there's got to be a counter punch there. Or if you face a team with a rush like this, it's going to be very difficult, but also say that, you know, at some point this team really kind of became, and maybe again, it was Buffalo became the team of destiny that believes in itself and just like sees itself as a team that can win any game against any opponent. And that feeling has not existed with the Minnesota Vikings in a while.

We haven't seen the drama. We haven't seen the frustration. We haven't seen infighting. We've seen a lot more of these guys coming together. And I think that that matters. So anyway, again, you just ride the wave. We say it every single week, ride the wave. There will be crashes sometimes,

but it is made for a very, very interesting and never short on entertainment. You cannot go and shovel the driveway or mow the yard or whatever season it is with this team because it's never over. So Paul, great stuff. Thank you for your time as always. Thank you for everybody who watched. And if you're watching on YouTube, watch slash listen.

If you're watching on YouTube and you're just finding the purple insider podcast, we do it every day with lots of different guests, Jeremiah Searles, Brian Murphy. We will have guests for whoever their next team is up. Is it Detroit? That they're playing next. So, you know, we always have a good whoever their next team is up. Is it Detroit? Uh, that they're playing next. Um, so, you know, we always have a good time on the show every single day. So go to wherever you get your podcasts, purple insider pod, and we will catch you all later.

Thanks everybody.