Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - The Vikings' short and long-term future at the trade deadline ft. Courtney Cronin

Episode Date: November 2, 2020

Matthew Coller and ESPN's Courtney Cronin break down the Vikings' win over the Packers and talk about how it could shape the trade deadline. Will they avoid moving people now? Plus what does the trade deadline say about the future path? And why there were some things to like and be concerned about with rookies on Sunday. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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If the foundation isn't right, then the rest of it's going to go wrong from there. And more. Subscribe to Front and Center today. Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matt Schaller here and joining me following Mike Zimmer's press availability is ESPN's Courtney Cronin. What is up, Courtney? We are past the halfway point of the season. There's been no shutdown.

I can't believe it. I think that this is obviously today with all the coronavirus cases that are breaking out. Green Bay had some. The Vikings are still in their intensive protocol. Baltimore had some. Arizona. I figured it's kind of where we would be at this point, but I honestly felt like the season was not going to make it eight straight weeks. So I'm just honestly thrilled that we have cruised past the halfway point of the season and another eight weeks to go.

Longer than that because you know there's a week 18 coming up here at some point. But I'm feeling good about it. Really feeling like the NFL has done a pretty good job, by and large. And containing the outbreaks post-Tennessee Titans has been a huge deal. A.J. Dillon, the Packers running back, ends up with a positive test after yesterday, and we'll wait and see if there are any implications of that, if there are other positive tests and so forth. But that was always what Eric Sugarman told us, is that they knew people would test positive. It was just about containing that, making sure that other people didn't get it,

that they limited any type of spread, that they limited how in close contact people who got it ended up being with their teammates by spreading out meetings, wearing masks, all those sorts of things. And it has worked for the most part. And I guess we'll hope again, as the Vikings play a team that has positive tests after that,

we don't get some bad news soon, especially, Courtney, when it comes to trading players. You can't trade a guy on the COVID reserve list. Right? Yeah. I mean, it just delays the inevitable. It's like, well, we're going to trade for him, but we're also going to work something in contractually because we don't want to pay him when he's not able to be on our active roster. I am just feeling less confident today in the idea that the Vikings will come anywhere close to a fire sale. Jeremy Fowler, your teammate at ESPN, reported that they would not be moving Adam Thielen. I was always skeptical of the idea that they would move Thielen or Harrison Smith because I think they want to be good in 2021 but if you don't move Anthony Harris and you do not move Riley Reif um big mistake like

give me a one to ten how big of a mistake it is because I think it is a mistake to come off of one game where you win to go two and five and your playoff odds only increase by a couple percent and say okay we're good, we need to keep everyone. But is it a catastrophic mistake or would it be a small mistake? I just think it delays the inevitable and that you're going to have to take a step back here at some point. So why not, the logic was, why not have it be now where it's going to be scratching and clawing to the finish line

to get to eight and eight and will you get into the playoffs in eight and eight sure but like be the expanded field this year that would make sense given how many other bad teams there are out there and you know one good game against a Packers defense that has been suspect at best since the NFC championship game and really hasn't made any sort of improvements there that are worth, you know, noting, doesn't change that, you know, you're still a team that has a lot of issues and a lot of problems that are not just going to get solved this season. So the way that I look at it, I'd probably give it like a seven because neither of those

guys that you mentioned, Reef and would you say Rudolph? Anthony Harris, but Rudolph falls in this category. I thought you said Harris. Neither of them, if we're thinking logically here, are going to be on your roster next year. So why not go ahead and unload their salary now and also get draft picks coming back to you? Here's my overall thought on the whole win situation

and what it does for the trade deadline. Because I wrote that, like, there's no changing now. Like, maybe they do one thing, but they are not going to be active sellers. And, yes, you would think, and I know, that they went into this game, you know, kind of with, like, at least maybe not necessarily a plan in mind of, like, either way this is going to happen. Because clearly we haven't seen anything happen. But they obviously had targets. And they weren't actively shopping a whole bunch of guys but they're listening and they put feelers out there through obviously with adam schefter and the tweet in the report yesterday about anthony

harris i mean we've known that one since literally the day they franchised and they didn't want him so i mean right um that's obviously one but you know the adam the adam thielen report that you know he's not being moved, I understand it. I don't know if I necessarily agree with it, if you really are conceding to a rebuild, but they never wanted to publicly concede to this regardless. Even if it helps the long-term health of your roster, there are two people right now who are fighting to keep their jobs. Even though they got three-year contract extensions, that's Mike Zimmer and that's Rick Spielman. I've kind of had some soul-searching, or what you would call it,

skull-searching this morning, just thinking about, like, well, what does this actually do? What does this win mean? Because you look at the rest of their stretch, they've got four games against Chicago and Detroit. Both are very bad football teams and frauds, personally, is what I think. We've seen how this has all played out. You have a chance to get to 7-9, 8-8, and make the playoffs. Is it worth it at that point? Honestly, I sometimes think that this ownership group is more content with quantity over quality that they would rather see a bunch of

playoff um playoff appearances strung together in a series of a couple years even if it's a first round exit than being one of the elite teams and actually contending for a super bowl like i don't think they honestly mind that this team goes to the NFC wildcard game maybe makes it pass there maybe loses there but hey you've got a playoff appearance it goes down in the record book as a playoff appearance um and that's very easily what could happen this year because their schedule is very favorable and they should be able to manage it if they continue to play this way but long-term health-wise of the roster the win if that changes their mindset if they're not going to sell assets the win does nothing for you and it honestly probably hurts you down the line because

a it's going to hurt you in draft positioning um you're probably not getting what the quarterback that you think that you want if that's indeed the direction you're going to go but you know i can't when there are two people who are really fighting to prove that they deserve the extensions that they got, like, this is like the ideal scenario for them to be like, hell no, we're doubling down. We're going to win now because we think we can. So when I look at football outsiders playoff odds, they have the Vikings at 8.1% of a chance. So that went up from about 3% last week week and they faced Detroit so obviously a win against Detroit would bring both teams to three and five that would up their

playoff odds a bit I don't really believe in Green Bay or Chicago as great teams but the problem is when they talk about only losing those games by one point against Seattle and Tennessee that's great but you can't go back in time and change that in terms of the standings. Even if you believe you're a little better than your record, which I'm not sure there's much evidence to really suggest that, but even if you believe that, you can't change it. It doesn't mean that all of a sudden they go, okay, well, all right, we'll just change a win or a loss here or there, and we'll get you into the playoffs. We'll sneak you in the back somehow. It doesn't work that way. And just looking at the overall, you know, production of this team offensively and

defensively, I'll just give you one simple measure because I think this sort of tells the story. In terms of how often the Vikings score per drive, they are 24th as an offense and they are dead last as a defense. So they allow opponents to score on the highest percentage of drives of anyone in the NFL. That does not say, wow, they're actually secretly good. It was just something we were all missing. It was close losses. It was bad bounces. There aren't any numbers to really back the idea that you could get hot and beat these other teams. And you just lost two weeks ago with the same roster. In fact, maybe a little worse roster now with some injuries. You just lost to Atlanta, who was winless at the time.

And so if you're telling me, well, we could just beat Detroit and beat Chicago and beat Jacksonville and beat Carolina, I'm sorry. I just don't buy it because you got a six-point win over the Green Bay Packers on a very good day. Yeah, a game that you low-key nearly lost there at the end. If Aaron Rodgers doesn't, you know, if they're able to get their offense set and he doesn't have to spike the ball, and if he doesn't get sacked, and I know these are a lot of what-ifs. I mean when reality happened

they didn't win but had all those things happen I think we're looking to see another like heartbreaking devastating situation like Seattle and even Mike Zimmer said that he was not confident that they had put the team away at all especially with 56 seconds left or whatever it was with Rodgers driving right so you can play the game of, hey, well, we could almost be four and three, but you could almost be winless because both times that you won, the other team had the ball with a chance to tie or go ahead. So we can do that little dance all day long, but the reality is your chances at the playoffs are very,

very small at this moment. Here's another secret thing, too, about Riley Reif. And I like Riley Reif. I think he's very good, and I think that he'll be great for the Ravens or great for the Titans, but if Rashad Hill replaces Riley Reif, your wins for the rest of the season don't change. I wouldn't change how I would pick them. I wouldn't change anything about it. Now, one hold up though could be the potential prices here. There are a lot of sellers and there are some buyers, but when there's a lot of sellers, the prices aren't

necessarily high. And one of the trades that we had today was Desmond King, the cornerback from the Chargers being traded for a sixth round pick to the Tennessee Titans. And I wonder if that will be the holdup here, because if you remember, and I know you do, at draft time, the Vikings wanted a second round pick for Anthony Harris, and no one was willing to give them a second round pick for Anthony Harris. So if they've been calling around teams saying, give us a third for Riley Reif, give us a third for Anthony Harris, and they're saying, how about a fifth? How about a sixth? How about a seventh? Then I could see them saying, well, it's not even worth it to move the guy.

We might as well just play this out. Don't you remember that that was the exact same scenario that played out with the Trent Williams deal with Riley Reif? I mean, they wanted a, what was it, a third? And they were, like, being offered, like, I think as high as a fourth. And, you know, that's why that whole thing fell through. And I just think that you can't, you can't get, I think we should think of this in like, in the sense that we need to kind of preface it the way that we speak about it. Rick Spielman is going to do what he needs to do to keep his job.

It's not going to make sense to, it's not like common sense doesn't always apply because people are trying to keep their jobs. Like common sense would tell you that you shouldn't have given Kirk Cousins an extension. Well, you're trying to keep your job because you need to create salary cap space, try to lower, you know, the load this year and think, okay, like we can rely on things that we're just, aren't sure going to pan out. Like, so I think when you look at this and realistically,

if they get like, you know, should they get be able to get more than a six round pick for Riley reef? You'd like to think so. But when you're looking at it through like the common sense standpoint, like, would you take that? You know, if I'm trying to rebuild and I'm trying to make this roster better longterm, yes, but his job's on the line. That's why I don't think that like, you know, when it, you know,

if there's offers, if we find out, people in a couple days, oh, they did have somebody call about Riley Reeves, they did have somebody call about Anthony Harris, maybe even Tajay Shah or Pat Elfline, any of the lower tier potential guys who are on the trading block and just don't't do it it's not going to surprise me at all because I just don't think that this front office is wanting to get really gutsy and make trades especially now that they know like hey we saw you know we have a window here we can actually do this whether they can or can't I think is like the next part of the conversation but they at least see the opportunity and the optics behind being able to kind of continue this thing going after getting a pretty huge win on Sunday. Well, you can bet that you are picking the schedule the rest of the way so we can figure this out to see if anything has changed in your mind after the win. But we'll get to that in a minute. Now, what I want to know from you is what it says about the long-term future if they don't move anyone.

In the case to move Riley Reif for a fifth, even if it's a fifth, is, well, A, you drafted Stefan Diggs in the fifth. So you never do know. The other thing is that you can use those for trades in the future, and that's where they come really in handy. So you go, well, let's see, we were losing Riley Reif anyway, so we got a fifth for nothing. And then, hey, we needed to tack on a fifth to get someone good for our future later on, and we gave up nothing for that. That's where it's great. I mean, think about, great example, the Baltimore Ravens traded Kari Vedvik for a fifth round pick, which they sent to the Jaguars to get Kalias Campbell.

They're pretty happy about making that move, right? So you never know when those are going to come in handy. Moving players you're not going to go forward with, to me, is just common sense, even if it's going to feel like, uh-oh, the wheels are coming off or we're not really trying to win or however you want to put it. Now, the long term, though, what it says, if they don't move anyone to me, it says, and I would look at this quarterback crop the way that I've been looking at this quarterback crop. I don't know if you make the connection between the two things, but I do. If you're not selling like crazy now, you're probably not drafting a quarterback. You're probably drafting someone who can help you right away in 2021, and I feel like this is where

they've gotten themselves in trouble during the draft over the last few years at times where they pick guys and say, oh yeah, this guy's going to help us right away. Jefferson has, but not the other guys, especially not Garrett Bradbury. And they were doing that, we're going to get someone to help us right away kind of thing by overdrafting him. And I guess I'm just thinking now at this moment as we record this and there haven't been trades yet that those two things are connected yeah I because you're not going to be in a position like these if you continue to try to push this thing forward um and if you win a couple more games you're going to probably be

out of the spot that you want to be in you're going to probably be in like the mid you know low to mid teens right um you're not getting a quarterback that you think could potentially you know take over for Kirk Cousins I don't think right there I mean it's possible but you know I think it's also you're saying okay we figured out this solution it's basically take the ball out of Kirk's hands don't you know that's not the formula to win here so you're going to try to ride that thing You're saying, okay, we figured out the solution. It's basically take the ball out of Kirk's hands. That's not the formula to win here. So you're going to try to ride that thing out for the next two years? You're missing the inevitable here.

You are going to end up delaying the rebuilding process because we know that's what they're going to have to do. It almost feels like they're trying to cut corners with it and be like, look, our defense is good over here, but it's not so great here, but it's going to be fine because after a year and injuries and et cetera, we'll have cap space, maybe go after another veteran, whatever. It'll be fine. It'll all catch up. I don't believe that.

I think that their logic right now is, of course we can't trade Riley Reif. Why are we going to do that to the offensive line again? They're finally playing together. Like, they finally look good. Even though you didn't draft Ezra Cleveland to play guard, no matter what you try to tell yourself, that, you know, it just, like, would you rather – he's going to play left tackle regardless. Do you want him to play right now and get his feet wet in a season

that kind of feels like it's teetering on the verge again of being lost? Or do you want to go through this whole process again next year? I don't know. Like, I just feel like it's not, you know, it's short-sighted to think like, okay, we can win with this group right now. Because you're hurting yourself in the future. You're delaying the process. You're going to have to eventually, like, grin and bear it. You're going to have to rebuild.

Or at least take a step back. Because you refused to take a step back this year. And you're kind of forced into it? Like it could look like it could look a little bit worse before it gets better. And I think that, you know, by trading guys in building for the future, like you mentioned with those fifth round picks, you know, I'd like to see Rick Spielman actually do something with that draft capital, like in the draft, trade up, get to a spot where you're comfortable.

Instead of just like utilizing, say, okay okay we have more bites at the apple like that just hasn't always worked out that way to build a super it hasn't worked out that way with this draft philosophy to build a super bowl team you haven't had one go to sodastick.com to get your original minnesota sports inspired goods if you have not seen this stuff yet and you've been listening to this podcast, what are you doing? Make sure you go check it out. A couple of my favorite designs. They've got new gritty gear after the Vikings young superstar receiver

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original Minnesota sports-inspired goods. Code Purple Insider for free shipping. All right, let's look into the future as the ghosts of, well, Halloween is over. Thanksgiving, ghosts of Thanksgiving future. Okay, the two scenarios here are, one, they trade away everything that isn't nailed down. And let's even include Adam Thielen in that. It doesn't sound like that's going to happen, but this is our ghostly look into the future okay so let's look into 2021 and 2020 2020 2020 2022 sorry uh ghosts it was an echo and um then we'll do if they don't trade

anyone and don't draft quarterback so if they do trade everyone and draft a quarterback versus not. Okay, so the first scenario, they trade everyone, and they get back not that great of picks, but some picks. And then they commit themselves to picking a quarterback in the first round and using the draft capital to help them move up if they have to. So if Zach Wilson is there at seven and they're drafting at ten, which is where they sit right now, then they can trade up, as you mentioned. How do things play out in that scenario in your mind as a ghost of future Thanksgiving?

Are we assuming that they're going to hang on to Kirk Cousins this offseason then? Can we get that wrinkle? Yeah, let's assume that there's just no good way to cut him, and that doesn't make any sense. He's the quarterback for at least 2021, but in this case they drafted Zach Wilson or Trey Lance. And at that point you could think that, yes, if he's the quarterback for 2021,

you've already guaranteed his base salary for 2022. So if you want to move on from him, you could probably do it. It's just going to be expensive in terms of dead money at that point, given what he's guaranteed, the proration that was left. But it won't be as catastrophic as doing it before 2021. If they get the quarterback that they want by trading up or having the draft capital to do so, or even being so bad this next, however many games to get into the top five,

top six, then I think that 2021 will look rough. I think it'll be like a seven to nine season at best at that point. Cause you got to think about like who they're going to be letting go of on defense too. Obviously we don't know anything about Daniil Hunter and that whole situation. But beyond that, again, I think you have to realize that you have to commit to this rebuild one way or the other. But long term, you get to move on.

And you get to move on from Kirk Cousins. To me, Mike Zimmer and the way that they played yesterday, that is showing very much that the way that he thinks that they have to win games is by taking the ball out of Cousins' hands and relying on Delvin Cook. Cook's comment about that's Coach Zim's ball, how many times he ran into the red zone, he's right. They don't want to leave the game up to Kirk Cousins to turn the ball over and, you know, lose you a game. So I think the writings on the wall, they all know that that's not the answer at the quarterback position. So by drafting one, you can rebuild there, and then you can actually have somebody you want to build around because I think we need to stop kind of having this argument of like okay well if we trade all these players away we can continue to build around cousins well how you know they didn't really do that the first three years he was here right or two years he was here um but I think that it almost kind of feels like a lost cause because it just feels like it's like unless you literally hit on every single player that you would put around him it's just it's not going to be enough so i do think it's

it's the right thing to do if you were going to go and try to rebuild that you would have to you know commit to it and realize you're going to have to take a step back but beyond that you could be a very good team 2022 and beyond the way I look at it is if you draft a quarterback and you get extra draft capital you can continue to throw darts at the wall in terms of developing other players as they're trying to do now and they liked how Ezra Cleveland looked they liked how DJ Wanham looked yesterday against the Packers and so forth And you can hope for the next run of Daniil Hunters and Everson Griffins and Anthony Harris's that are not high draft picks that you develop into good players and Stephon Diggs and Adam Thielen and so forth.

But it takes a while to cultivate them. But your hope would be that you're cultivating them along the way with the idea of having a young quarterback take the spot of Kirk Cousins, and then you spend around him. The Minnesota Vikings ownership is willing to spend. It's a good market. Players like to play here. Players sign long contracts here.

And so I think if you had a team on the rise that was willing to spend money, you can go out into the free agent market and fill a lot around your quarterback on a rookie contract. There's a lot of great examples of this, but look how Carson Wentz is without the roster they put around him in 2017. But also look how good he was when they went out into free agency and they got Elshon Jeffrey and they got some players on defense that helped them and they got Torrey Smith. They were able to put a bunch of good players around Carson Wentz, and we've seen this with other teams too. They sign him, they get some

injuries, and all of a sudden they're not all that impressive of a team anymore. But it shows you that even a non-elite quarterback, if he's got that around him and you can spend money to fill those holes, you can still be very competitive and potentially go to a Super Bowl. And I think that would be how it played out. I think you're right that you would not expect a great 2021 season. You could still be competitive and you actually hope Kirk plays really well so you can trade him the year after, but you're still going to have a lot of roster holes as you put young players into these spots now if we go ghost of thanksgiving future and they don't trade anyone and they try to just have a quick bounce back in 2021 yeah i think that

you end up going like nine and seven in 2021 because there's still going to be holes on the roster and you still won't have enough money to fill them all because other players have to get paid too like Brian O'Neill his contract's coming up yep uh it's going to be hard to unload Anthony Barr's contract if they want to do that I just look at it and say explain to me how exactly you're a Super Bowl contender in 2021 um if you just draft, say, a defensive tackle in the first round. I have a tough time seeing that. Yeah, I do too. I think either way you just kind of realize here that it's not –

you have to buy into, okay, it's not going to be great. We actually need to – you were faced with a rebuild anyways, right? And the three cornerbacks that you let go from the roster last year are better than any that you have on the roster right now that we knew that was going to happen um so I think that you look at the situation and it's like the pet which is which is going to like yield better results long term maybe not quicker and if you're not trading guys off like you know i'm always about like try to get what you can for what you have and do it now sell high like you know we're all very bullish on the vikings this year and thinking that their defense you know would be able to overcompensate for the

issue so like that hasn't happened um and even mike zimmer like listen like listen how exhausted he was after yesterday and he was losing they were down to like two healthy cornerbacks between harrison and jeff gladney and then um josh metellus was playing some nickel like just like what's going on and like think about all of the guys that they had like all those moves they made on saturday like some guy named christian not christian kirk kirk something or another one of their baby i'm like oh had like all those moves they made on Saturday like some guy named Christian not Christian Kirk Kirk something or another one of their baby I'm like Luther Luther Kirk yeah Kirk Franklin I don't know like I mean like I just that's the point that they're in right now that they are so decimated by injuries they're signing guys off the street personally I think that you would continue to

go that route for now and build stockpile that draft capital because you have players that are worth something but they're not going to be worth anything to you next year so why wouldn't you try to get value for them now i just think that they they think that they would look like okay well we have a window but we're blowing our opportunity to to win um if if they look at it that way it's like like, is winning one wildcard game at best, because that's probably all I would ever give them, and I'm not even saying their playoff team, but, like, just thinking of how bad the schedule is,

is that worth it long-term instead of starting the rebuild now, getting Ezra Cleasel in the way he needs to play, figuring it out? It'd be, like, you also have to figure out, too, like, you talk about a quarterback. Do you want Mike Zimmer? Like, is that the leader that you want with a new quarterback like is Rick Spielman the guy that you want leading the charge of your front office like that's something that I think they really need to think about if they were going to start selling off assets because that's if you bring it in new players and new fresh blood, do you want, like, the same regime, same leadership, same voices to be the ones that are, you know, leading the charge? I'm not necessarily saying that they do.

So this might be a weird take on that matter. I almost think that if you're going to stick with Kirk Cousins, which the ghosts of Thanksgiving future could see that. And if he had a good season in 2021 and then they say, well, our roster's on the rise and Kirk just played really well. Let's give him another contract extension. Now, that's haunting. That's really haunting for some Vikings fans. But if they decide to do that, I would say then you don't want Mike Zimmer to be your coach because the first run through of let's give Mike everything he needs and Kirk not everything he needs has not worked. I would actually rather see them hire the young, attractive offensive coach or maybe just Eric Bien-Ami. I don't know how attractive he's considered, but a very good coaching candidate let's say you hired him instead

and then you put all of your focus on winning the 2020 style which is by having a great offense and i mean the packers and titans are great examples by the way of teams whose defenses are absolute garbage and whose offense has still gotten them to be relevant um i think so even when your defense falters you can still win. And the Packers had the worst defensive performance yesterday and still almost won. And there's a point there about that. But if you wanted to rebuild with a young quarterback, this might sound weird, who would have less of a problem with Mike Zimmer doing that. Because then you could actually win Mike Zimmer's way with the cheap quarterback in the future. Yep, and spending on defense and other marquee free agents.

Right. Sure. I don't have any fear of Zimmer ruining a young quarterback because he got along great with Teddy. Yeah, I think it's got to be the right fit, but, you know, is it going to work elsewhere? Because can you keep up that way like when you're not spending big on on quarterbacks and big key free free agents on the offensive side of the ball like

there's only so few teams that can actually win with defense in this league like there really are and and i know um you know in seeing it around like the rams for example like that's not going to last much longer when your special teams play like that. You have a quarterback who's turned the ball over four times. Like, yeah, they're, you know, five and three, whatever they are. And they beat the Dolphins yesterday, but like, that's not the formula that I think is going to be sustainable for many teams in the NFL to be able to get to the Superbowl and actually win a game there.

You know, the Rams are a really good example of what we're talking about with how you can bounce back pretty quickly. I mean, they are, when they draft number one the following season, they're an absolutely miserable team. But then they're right back to being good in 2017 after a very short time of being down. Even the Miami Dolphins, you have to feel the same way. And in terms of drafting a quarterback this year,

you could be looking at the Dolphins as an example of a team that sold off all their parts and everyone went, oh, they're going to be bad for 10 years. And then, nope, they weren't. Because why? They were able to spend a bunch of money in the offseason. Their coverage unit is really good, in part because they gave a ton of money to Byron Jones and by the way now Dallas can't cover anyone um because they don't have Byron Jones anymore they traded all their defensive players right so there's a point there about how you can do this and what works effectively and remember

even Los Angeles they spent a bunch they got likeib Tlaib and a couple of other guys, Marcus Peters, I think, right? So you could just start adding really good players around your young quarterback. That to me is the route there. And I think if you kept Zimmer, it doesn't have to mean necessarily you put everything into defense, of course not. But you have, I think think more of a commitment to the the all around like you know being able to put free agents into defense free agents into wide receivers or tight ends or offensive line because you've just got the cash to be able to do it whereas right now you don't so uh that's our ghosts of thanks maybe i should have done a trade deadlines future maybe that was the mistake here.

Yeah. I mean, by the time this posts, um, let's, you know, there could very easily be a move, but I honestly just don't,

I don't have the gut feeling that they're going to do much, if anything at all. Like to me, if like I have to re-rank it now, I'd say that they would, you know, of like realistic candidates. I think that Harris is number one.

I'd probably put rudolph number two um i mean the guy caught one pass yesterday he's not being utilized here like he he should go somewhere for these final years of his career like where they're going to utilize them because they just you know they we knew this was going to happen they drafted irv smith like where they did because he was the heir apparent and now now Kirk isn't even throwing the ball to Kyle. Like, do you want to hang on to him? Like, is it worth the run blocking for that much? Like, when you're going to have to, like, probably release him anyways

or work something out, you know, this offseason. So I'd put him at two and then Reif at three, Harrison Smith maybe at four. I still think Thielen's such a long shot because, you know, if you trade Thielen and you're basically, like, again, handing in your resignation papers because you take away weapons from Kirk Cousins and you know that you can't do that and expect him to be successful, so you're signing yourself up for not being able at all to consider the possibility of moving out from Kirk Cousins.

The thing with Thielen is that he could be good for so much longer. I mean, I know his age, but the mileage isn't bad, the injury history isn't bad, and the way that he succeeds, I think considering player health in 2020, if he was good until age 36, I wouldn't even be surprised because he doesn't necessarily ever succeed on just being blazing fast and running by people. I think those are the guys that fade. He doesn't even really succeed in being physical

in terms of like just pushing people away and boxing them out. It's mostly by just pure route running skill and then having great hands, which I think with someone like Larry Fitzgerald, he's been able to go deep into his thirties and still be good. So I could see that case. Even if you're drafting a new quarterback, you want him to inherit Justin Jefferson and Adam Thielen and feel really good about that. I have a couple more things for you, starting with, you could call it a new game or whatever, but let me try to think of how I want it to go. Like, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. Let's talk about the young guys. No, that's not good. It works at the end.

Good recovery. Let's analyze young players. Maybe. About the seven guys that they had to play defense yesterday. I think each week we should take a look at just all the people who are part of the future and what they meant. And for me, the highlight of the day of that entire game is Ezra Cleveland playing really well. He scored very high by pro football focus. And I started to question how Drew Samia ever played football for the Vikings when Ezra Cleveland was capable of doing something like he did yesterday. Whether he's a left tackle or whether he's a guard,

he is talented and probably should have been on the field before. But that was a great sign for Vikings fans who would love an offensive line at some time in the century. Yeah, no, I'm with you. Everything you said, yes. I think that it was a great pick. I would like to see him play his position that he was drafted to play um personally I think it'd be better to see him play there sooner rather than later because

you need to make sure that that spot is shored up and not an issue when Kirk Cousins is your quarterback in 2021 so why not try to work some of those kinks out now but yeah no I think that you know the the downfield blocking the the run blocking specifically, because we saw so much of it yesterday, like he looked like he was finally getting into a groove. And it was hard, that Atlanta game, because, you know, you throw an interception on the first play of the game, like, what kind of rhythm are you getting anybody into at that point, let alone your rookie offensive lineman who's starting for the first time.

So, yeah, I do think that he's in a good spot now, that he's going to be able to grow from this. And, you know, eventually we could be talking about him in the same vein that we talked about Brian O'Neill. Even though sports took a break, your business didn't. You have to keep moving, and that means hiring is more important than ever. Indeed is here to help. Indeed.com is the number one job site in the world because Indeed gets you the best people fast.

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not good. Uh, even though they got the win, not good. And Mike Zimmer went on a full, like, what would you call it? I mean,

it was, it was incredible. Cause we were learning a lot from Mike Zimmer when he gets into teaching mode. But it was a symposium on all the things Jeff Gladney did wrong. Yes, it was. The concerning point on Gladney is that he didn't know where his leverage was on the first touchdown. Zimmer explained that. And didn't know where his eyes were supposed to be on the second touchdown by Devontae Adams.

It's not like he just got beat by a good wide receiver. It's you weren't technically doing things right. And last time I checked, we're in November now. I mean, you should be making progress with these basic technique things that corners have to do. And Gladney hasn't. So I don't know where to put a panic meter of sorts on Jeff Gladney, but I think that's pretty concerning. I think because this question came up yesterday, like after that second touchdown, because that was clearly Zimmer was singing in the production meeting with the Fox crew about like, I tell them to do this and their technique and like he's been telling us the exact same thing. And, you know, Gladney, you got to figure out at some point, is it the coaching or is

it the player themselves? Like who's – if Gladney doesn't pan out to be good, is it Rick Spielman's fault because he drafted him or is it Mike Zimmer's fault because he can't – he's not buying into the coaching technique? I think that's something you honestly have to ask yourself because you saw it just as well as I did. That little flippant, like, you know, thing that he did on the sideline,

walking past your head coach. Like personally, if that that was me like if I was a head coach I'd be really upset about that because like you're gonna like walk past me when I'm trying to give you instruction when I've been telling you to do something one way this entire time and you're trash so far like who exactly you're not good like but it's just like why isn't the coaching guy was the first round pick for a reason. Why can't he pick up the coaching technique? That's something I think you should question. Is it the coaching stuff or is it the player himself?

So I always, except for Adam Gase, I'll blame Adam Gase for anything. Cause I think he's the worst coaching player. I think it's always the player. I think it's always on the player. Now there is a point to be made about Antoine Winfield Jr. mixed in here that you could have taken a real quick Uber down to TCF Bank Stadium and taken a quick look at how amazing at football that guy was and really seen it coming that he would keep doing that. Could have rode your bike from US Bank Stadium to TCF to see that. So there is some questioning there that every minnesota football fan knew

antoine winfield jr would be good and it feels like getting a little cute like no we've got our guy okay and i know it's obvious that you guys think we should draft him but we've got our guy so there's a little bit of that and i'm not calling jeff gladney a bust yet by the way it's just there's some concerning signs here um but with uh with gladney i think it's entirely on him like mike zimmer is going to teach you how to play corner it's nothing new it's it's stuff that everybody else has been taught and a lot of other players have succeeded with uh terrence newman sure turned out to be pretty good xavier rhodes good trey wayne's decent mckenzie alexander good like if you don't get it it's your fault it's the same with Treadwell

where we would blame other things for Treadwell it'd be like oh well maybe they didn't do this or that or you know maybe they didn't teach him route running or it's not the coaches if you go bust it's probably on you like 90 agreed agreed with that agreed with that I think that we don't want to oversimplify by any stretch how tough it is to play corner. And, you know, you're not just worried about, like, how guys respond to, like, the physicality of it, like, grabbing and, you know, DPI and all the stuff that's called differently in the NFL than it is in college. I think, you know, the eye discipline thing, Mike Zimmer gave a great answer about, like, just how tough that is.

And, I mean, it's like where your eyes need to be. And it's like that's the thing that Jeff Gladney was getting killed for on the Fox broadcast yesterday, where his eyes are upfield and not where they need to be. I think that that's just so blatantly obvious when we can point it out that either you're not listening or you're trying to do things your own way and you're just not buying in. That's on you.

But are there better ways to teach it? I'm trying to get things your own way and you're just not buying in that's on you but like are there better ways to teach it like is it should i'm trying to give both sides benefit of doubt here maybe maybe zimmer's not teaching it to him the way that it's a receptive way or maybe glad he's just like saying i don't want to do it this way i'm gonna do my way and clearly it's not working out so right you know i think there's a bunch of different things that we can we just it's a hard position to play don't like you have to be like an aficionado in this defense, a virtuoso, whatever, like to play cornerback for Mike Zimmer. It is a hard position. It is the key to his defense.

And so, you know, when I look at it, I'm like, okay, of course they're not succeeding right now. It's very tough. But, like, are there ways that they can, like, learn? Like, I agree. It's November. You shouldn't be having issues with technique as much at this point, but it's still there, so how can you fix that?

Right. And it did take a while for Mackenzie Alexander to be good and for Xavier Rhodes to be good. Yeah, it took him four years. Right. So, you know, like I said, don't write him off as a bust. But him just trying to walk by Zimmer as he was giving the coach. That bothered me

you don't see veterans do that like even when even guys who have huge contracts who have proven themselves and been in big games and been on the number one defense they don't just walk by the head coach of the team so I think that that was a a concerning look for him because like you said if he's not listening then he's not going to get better. And it did take Mackenzie Alexander a while. It's a tough sport and it's a tough position. But, you know, you've got to show some progress here of knowing simple things like where your leverage is. Like that is really basic. And also, you know, Zimmer said these guys have to get a feel for the game too,

which is sort of concerning. Let me ask you one thing before we wrap up is just you picked 5-11 the last time we ran through. We won't do every game. But is there anything in your mind that changes now down the stretch in terms of how you picked the Vikings? So Kenny Galladay isn't playing. Yep. Trey Flowers is not playing.

Our long-necked quarterback isn't going to get the call. Did you see this? Yeah. Some other rookie or something? Jake Luton? I don't know neck probably not long enough do you think there's like a neck requirement like in terms of like girth and length yeah i don't know if the neck correlates well considering that uh mike glennon is bad and can't even get the start as opposed to a sixth round draft pick from oregon state so uh well jacksonville if he's still to a sixth round draft pick from Oregon state. So, uh, well Jacksonville,

if he's still playing their sixth round pick that could change. I don't know if we picked a loss there though. I think we picked a win. So, um, do you, do you still see them as a five and 11 team? No. And that's, and I hate flip-flop and I really don't think I have flip-flopped like all of it. You know, after the Houston game, I still said they were not going to be very good um I just think that the scenario is perfect for them to get to seven and nine or eight and eight because the rest of their teams most of them outside of like you know Saints were beatable yesterday until the Bears collapsed um the only like truly hard hard

hard hard hard game that they have is against Tampa Bay. The other ones should be winnable, even a Saints game. But, you know, Drew Brees is averaging, like, 6.3 air yards per attempt, something like that. It's not great. And, I mean, it's just like at that point in December, like, how bad is their offense going to look? So I judge it based on you're going to split with Chicago. You probably could beat Detroit twice. So if you beat Detroit twice, there's four.

Can you beat Jacksonville? Yes, five. Can you beat Carolina? They show that they're vulnerable in a lot of spots too. Yeah, six. And then can you get like one more maybe against the Saints or the Bucs? Not against the Bucs, maybe the Saints. Seven and nine.

I don't think – I can't predict higher than seven and nine because you know they're not going to sweep their NFC North opponents. But like it is a doable schedule. Like realistically, it's manageable, but I can't see more than seven and nine. I don't see eight and eight personally. The problem is we all thought they would just steamroll Atlanta, and then they didn't. That game is coming. I don't know which one it is, but maybe it is Jacksonville.

Maybe it is Carolina. One of the winnable games they won't win, and you have to win every single one and pull off upsets, and that's why your playoff odds are 8% because it's just really, really hard to see. Okay, I promised that was the last thing, but fans are tweeting me about the Vikings trading Kirk Cousins to the 49ers for Jimmy. I know.

I saw it. I saw that they moved into IR and, like, why hasn't anybody called yet? Like, I don't know, man. They're, like, in a bad situation with injuries. But, honestly, you could send Kyle Rudolph there. George Kittle's going to be on IR for a couple weeks. Yeah. anybody called yet like i don't know man they're like in a bad situation with injuries like but honestly you could send kyle rudolph there george kittle's gonna be on iowa for weeks yeah um do they need another and they've just got trent williams because the vikings failed to get trent williams so it's not like they could unload reefs there um i can't see john lynch trading his

franchise quarterback for kirk cousins i just can't. Like, the guy just took you to the Super Bowl. I don't know how you do that. I don't know how you tell the ownership or the other players on the team, like, hey, yeah, we're actually going to go get this 500 quarterback as opposed to the guy who's, what, 24-8 in his career and took us to a Super Bowl. Like, BRB, plus there's a lot of – plus there's – like, they don't have a good cap situation either.

So I'm not sure how exactly you're working that out. But, you know, dare to dream. And also people should look forward to more skull searching. We're not stopping. Actually, intern Paul is working out some interviews to talk to people who cover our skull searching quarterback. So do you see any Zach Wilson? Exciting.

I know. I know. I mean, I got to start draft scouting soon. Yes, Courtney, our draft scout, will return early this year. I have a feeling. So, Courtney, great stuff as always. And maybe there will be emergency podcasts sometime. Maybe not.

I don't know. I guess we'll find out.