Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - The Vikings should beat the Bears & Analyzing J.J. McCarthy's tape

Episode Date: November 15, 2025

Andrew Krammer of the Minnesota Star Tribune joins the show for our weekly hardcore break down, previewing the upcoming Vikings-Bears game and why Minnesota SHOULD beat Chicago on Sunday. Then, Mike Renner of CBS Sports joins the show to discuss the Vikings' season so far and analyze J.J. McCarthy' tape. The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Also, check out our sponsor HIMS at https://hims.com/purpleinsider Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, presented by Fandual. Matthew Collar here, along with Andrew Kramer of the Star Tribune, for our weekly hardcore breakdown of Vikings and Chicago Bears. And I think a pretty easy place to begin this discussion is our expectations for J.J. McCarthy versus the Bears defense. Here's what I noticed. Last week against Jackson Dart is that the Bears sent a lot of extra rushers. They sent Brisker. They sent Edmonds. They were actually blitzing kind of a lot and sending simulated pressures against him,

which is not always Dennis Allen's thing. He's often on those charts with four-man rushes. But I think that they've realized, Andrew, that Montez Sweat can't do it all. Grady Jarrett looks like one of the worst signings of the entire offseason. There is nothing left there. Gervyn Dexter is a pretty good player, but aside from that, I mean, they just don't have a lot of pass rush. So this is a week, I think, for J.J. McCarthy to have some opportunity if he could sort through the rushes, sort through some of the coverage stuff that you know Dennis Allen's going to mix and match,

and have some clean pockets to throw to and bounce back from where he was last week. Yeah, if he can remain poised before the snap, as Kevin O'Connell talked about in terms of the communication, the fall starts. if he can remain poised after the snap, like he did on the first or one of the first plays where Kyle Hamilton blitzed, and he kind of side-armed a 10-yard pass to Justin Jefferson on the side. There were moments against the blitz with the Ravens that he showed. He's very capable of seeing it, very capable of making throws. But McCarthy also talked about the four batted passes at the line where he's stepping up into it, where he said he needs to work on his different arm angles to get the balls around defenders. This is all such a work in progress

that if I'm a defensive coordinator, I think blitzing him might be the kind of roll of the dice that you're willing to make just to see how it affects him. We're also seeing that injuries with McCarthy affect him later in games, potentially the hand, which he said he felt in a fourth quarter in which he was very inaccurate with the right hand bruised or the high ankle sprained against the Falcons that O'Connell talked about affecting his fundamentals and his footwork. So if you can hit him, if you can get him off his spot, if you can make him uncomfortable, McCarthy that is, I think it's a good approach for a deep. And it's going to be a good test for McCarthy because I do expect the Bears to try to throw some things at him, seeing how he did and did and did not react well to it last week. I think the biggest key for me, and this is going to sound like, boy, captain obvious here, but especially since it's been such a discussion, is when you look at this Bears team, you fully believe that you can run the football against them. And when he came back in week one against Chicago, and he made some spectacular plays to come back, touchdown to Jefferson, there was a great throw off a play action on the sideline to Jefferson, well done on the throw to Aaron Jones for a touchdown. All that stuff was really, really good. But the comeback began with some big Jordan Mason runs that got the offense going.

And in this case, I think this is a team that is pretty vulnerable to that. Aaron Jones, getting Jordan Mason involved also, I mean, there is such a thing. is shaming someone into doing the right thing and the internet may be shaming Kevin O'Connell into focusing on the run or we may just rewrite that narrative based on the fact that this is a team you can run the football against. And when you're trying to settle a young quarterback, I think that's the best way to do it is, and I wrote about under center and how Ben Johnson, one of his strategies for settling Caleb Williams, is to go under center, to run the ball, to use some bigger personnel, play actions and stuff like that, where I feel like that is where they want to go with

J.J. McCarthy, because if you're Kevin O'Connell, I don't think the run-pass ratio is the thing that you're thinking about late at night after the game. I think it's, how do I settle down my quarterback when he is so amped up trying to go win us a game that the balls are flying all over the place? Because if he could stay settled and calm early in games on those first 15 place. He's been really excellent these last two weeks. Yeah, and the run game is a great way to do it. So our throws to T.J. Hawkinson, which O'Connell was, I thought, pretty candid about in saying that we need to get him more involved. There are no excuses. And so when you go seven of 23, I'm trying to connect with Jefferson and Addison like you did on Sunday, you got to find some underneath solutions. And you

bring up the run game. The Bears' defense has not been great. They've given up three, four, five hundred yards almost at times this season in games. And a lot of it has come on the ground. When you look at that defensive front. They look older and slower. I think when Andrew Billings is made to look the way that he did, he's their nose tackle against the Giants. It's more of an indictment of how bad the giant's interior line is. Our old friend Austin Schloteman was starting at center for them in that game and it didn't look well. I think it's going to look a lot tougher regardless if it's Brandel or if it's Ryan Kelly back on Sunday. I do think the Vikings' offensive line will look better than the Giants did at forcing Chicago off the spot. And then you saw what they did. The Giants did

with Jackson Dart's mobility, I wonder, like, you don't want to get McCarthy hurt, but you can absolutely use him as a weapon in this game more than they've used him against other defenses because Jackson Dart had a 25-yard run on like third and 11. He had a 24-yard rushing touchdown, another short rushing touchdown. The Bears just could not, they were so focused on taking away the initial running back that they could not have much of a counter to stop the quarterback run. And I think a lot of that has to do with how they do not control gaps. They get moved off the line quite a bit.

And then Tremaine Edmonds, as good as he has been running downhill, sideline to sideline, he looks his age a little bit. And something that I can't help thinking about, too, from the last game with the Vikings, was when he throws the interception to Melchai Starks, and there's open space in front of him. I would like to see J.J. McCarthy stop trying to stay behind the line of scrimmage and look downfield and look downfield when he gets out of the pocket and instead just run and understand that if you get a five-yard carry, It's a pretty good play. Like, that's a positive play, and it's moving the sticks a little bit. I have felt like he has had those opportunities, but it's almost like it's pinging in his head, try to make a play down field, try to give Jefferson or Addison a chance, try to do something that is more than you need to do.

He's taken some hits because of it. He's made some inaccurate throws or late throws because of it. Just run. And this team is not very good. It's stopping running quarterback. So there is a chance there, opportunity there. I think that there's been enough for me, for J.J. McCarthy, that he has put on tape so far to then, like, match up in our minds how he looks against Chicago and say, this might be the best chance of the year for him to have that breakout game where we're all talking about, wow, what a big performance that was, a momentum builder. Like, this is the team that the opportunity is absolutely there for. This is the team that, and Joe Flacko's playing great. But what did Joe Flacko throw for?

5,000 yards in one game against them. I mean, what did Jamar Chase do against this team? They have lit them up. And even in the week one game, it was much more the Vikings fault than it was Chicago's defense in the early parts of that game. I think if they had made some plays, if Jefferson doesn't drop a ball and so forth, if some guys had run the right routes, if they blocked a little better. I mean, in that game, with this offensive line version into week one,

and if everyone had been a little more sharp, I mean, you could have scored 40, points on them that night. The opportunity was there. I'm not saying that Chicago didn't do anything right. The opportunities were there. Take advantage of them this time. And everyone in the organization will feel a heck of a lot different waking up on Monday than they have throughout this week. And I do think starting well running the ball is going to be huge because you mentioned the comeback with Mason's runs in week one. That was critical. But they did not run the ball well to start the game against the Ravens. And it was that third quarter when Kevin O'Connell made the calls that fans are you know, mad about that we asked him about many times in terms of why didn't you consider

a pass there, what was going through your head on that call. And O'Connell didn't say it as much. He said, yes, we eventually ran the ball well in the second half, but you have to think that not running the ball to start affected why he wanted to turn to the pass in some of those short yardage moments. Don't give him an excuse if you're the Vikings' offensive line or Aaron Jones or Jordan Mason to go away from you. You need to start fast in this game, get the run going, and then leverage that to make things easy for McCarthy on play action. You mentioned this could be a breakout-type game for McCarthy. I think that could be the case if it is somewhat easy for him to get chunk plays.

If we're talking 15, 20-yard screens, if we're talking catch-and-run opportunities, I do not think McCarthy's going to come out here and light up downfield the way that he tried to do against Baltimore. Jackson Dart had some good plays downfield. You mentioned Flacco, Jamar Chase. There have been quarterbacks who can throw downfield on them. But take the easy money and try to find some routine. rhythm things with this young quarterback that they haven't been able to. I think if you come out throwing deep on him, you risk going cold and getting into some of the same issues that

they've had. So it's sort of funny about this back and forth, right? Because they came out throwing deep against the Ravens and hit a 62-yard play to Jalen Naylor. I think that this is a weird thing for me is that the early part in the first 15 plays, for me, is the best time to take those shots. It's when he starts to get unsettled in the middle of the game where you're off of the script where if you start asking him to throw and throw and throw and throw, that's where it's gotten very spotty for me. That early in the game, it seems like he's had his accuracy and also his comfort with those first 15 plays are the ones that you go over in practice and this is your look and this is

your throw. Now just go do it. Even in the Lions game, he makes a really nice throw down the sideline. It's before he's gotten amped up and anxious about trying to win the game himself. But I agree with you that if you don't run the ball well, it's harder to do, though. shots because that helps everything. What I would like to see Kevin O'Connell do is on the first play of the game, put in C.J. Ham and T.J. Hawkinson, Josh Oliver, Ben Sims, and then run a deep shot just to troll everybody. Just, you know, just right off the bat just to be like, hey. Full 23

personnel. Yeah. Deep shot to Ben Sims. Like, K.O.C. ain't stopping dog. You know, that would be kind of funny. But we should mention, like, the fact Josh Oliver is coming back for this game is going to be huge on the front of running the ball, on the front of O'Connell maybe leaning on it a little bit more. Yeah, and I think that running with a 12 personnel and having Addison and Jefferson, but two tight ends in there also allows you to do extra things blocking-wise where, you know, there were some plays where there were simulated pressures that seemed to throw off McCarthy's pocket presence a little bit, and maybe that helps with some bigger personnel. But for me, I don't, if you're hanging on to one thing with McCarthy right now, it's that,

that his decision-making overall, where he has seen the play progress and where he's throwing the football, I don't think it's been horrible. I think it's been actually pretty good a lot of times. It's executing it on time and accurately. So if he was just making terrible decision after terrible decision, if he wasn't seeing where the ball was supposed to go, and then also this other stuff, I think you'd be a little more concerned. But I think it can be there if he gets into a rhythm, if he feels comfortable, if they

can get an early lead. and then there's a defense here that, to me, is just not that impressive. They do have some good players in the secondary, but not having Jalen Johnson. I mean, Nashon Wright got the big play last time, and he's not a great player. We know that he was here. You know, Brisker is banged up. You know, Stevenson's banged up. They bring in Gardner Johnson, who historically is, you know,

it's kind of a splash player, but not maybe a great down-to-down. So that's the way I look at this for McCarthy is that everybody's healthy. It's all right there for you. and this defense is going to give you opportunities to go win a game. Yeah, it is. It's going to give you opportunities to go win this game. And if you're J.J. McCarthy, it is. It's about finding the rhythm, the operation, the calmness you talk about,

not being too worked up. But I do think that this defense with Chicago is just lacking some of their top talent. Odenabo was one of their best pass rushers in week one. He's on IR. You mentioned Grady Jarrett and Billings on the interior, I think, can get moved. And then they look a little bit older on the front. And I think their best talent right now is, still in the secondary with Bristker and Bayard.

Isn't Kevin Byard still there, isn't he? He is. Yes, he is. And he's one of the guys that doesn't have a little cue by his name for questionable. He's aging, but he's a savvy vet in the safety spot. But if you can bring those guys up, I do think there will be opportunities to throw deep on them and take those shots. And with how aggressive Chicago is, too, maybe you can get something your way a little bit with the officiating. They got to try and draw some more contact penalties in ways that they just have not this year. They led the NFL last year in defensive pass interference penalties.

Justin Jefferson has drawn just two and nine games after drawing 14 and 17 games last year. Wow. It just has not, and I think he was frustrated with the Ravens and with not getting some of those calls. I think that fed into kind of his just body language and just kind of what he looked like on the field on Sunday. So I do think they need to try to still be aggressive in drawing those because it's such a big component of what they do. This feels to me like a end on Fandul, the over under four, Justin Jefferson is 71.5 yards. This feels like one where anything short of triple digits is a disappointment considering where they're at and how badly they need to get him and J.J. McCarthy going because quarterbacks in the past have not struggled to get just the Jefferson the ball. If there's a sample size that keeps growing of him not having success, then the tension starts to build because the one thing you've always had is that.

So then you start looking around, what is it that's happening that's causing this? And even I saw Jefferson posting on his Instagram a little bit there of putting it on himself, saying he needs to get back to when he was offensive player of the year. But they also, as an offense and as a quarterback, need to get him back there. Because I don't think he's running his routes differently than he was in the past. Let's go over to the Vikings' defensive side. It was a performance last week that I thought they should be pretty proud of overall. It wasn't perfect.

There's a few explosive plays in there. But they held the Ravens down for most of that game when the Ravens have nine points at the end of the first half. Lamar Jackson doesn't even reach 250 total yards, 3.8 yards of carry for Derek Henry. I think this defense is as good right now as we have seen them play all year long, that there's a lot of confidence and there's a lot of health that is going in their direction. The big question really is Jonathan Grenard. If Grenard is out, he's been kind of the number one chaser of Caleb Williams over the last couple years.

But overall, the defense is in the best spot that it's been all season long. I do. I think they've found some answers after getting just walloped in five days between the Eagles and the Chargers. They seem to have found some answers on their front. They're leaning a lot more on like their bare front, for instance, to take away the jumbo stuff that they're facing where they put four defensive linemen in, drop Eric Wilson on the edge. If they don't have Grenard, which it seems like they're not going to, that is going. going to upend a little bit of the changes they've made. Because they want to put Wilson in on the edge, which brings pace in. I do think having three safeties, your top three back for this

game will help you on this front. Remember Harrison Smith did not play in week one. Theo Jackson has been out the last couple weeks. If you get those three guys in there, Mattelis can drop in and play that kind of box linebacker role that allows you to keep Wilson on the edge. And I do think that'll allow them some extra versatility. But it's going to come down to Wilson because I do not see Dallas Turner being the guy who's necessarily wrecking things from the edge. They wanted Turner to be more of that kind of three, four end spot where this sounds counterintuitive because he's not the most physical guy, but they put him more on the inside, where it's just control one gap, limit your responsibilities, don't think too much

and just react. When they put him on the edge, it seems like he's picking and choosing his spots not consistently, or at least not as consistently as the all pro pro bowl level of Jonathan Grenard and Andrew Van Ginkle. So there's just a big drop off there without him. And that's the one question I've got against a Ben Johnson offense that is still really creative, really good in the run game. They lean on their counters. They will put you out in 11 and then motion commit into an eye formation and run for an eight-yard touchdown like they did against the Giants. Like they can do a lot of different things to bait you into personnel groups and get the advantage that way. And so I wonder how much Flores is going to say, you know what, I'm going to stick in my base. I don't care if you put Odunzei, Burden, all these guys out there. I'm going to stick in my base and try to force you to be. me downfield with, you know, what I'm going to do up front. I would like to see them every play have Jalen Redmond, Javon Hargrave, Jonathan Allen,

all on the field at the same time with Levi Drake mixing in. And if Jalen Redman has to play defensive end to set the edge, then you have to do that. Because we've seen that opposing teams, when they have Dallas Turner in there, they're going to attack. So sometimes I've seen them try to like spike him inside and things like that, which has worked sometimes for some TFLs or nice play. but it's very clear that he is not at a point in his career where he's just going to set edge, set edge. This is not a 270-pound defensive end with 10 years of NFL experience, and they know that. But last week, when we saw him play a little more free, drop back into coverage, almost tip a ball for an interception, get a phenomenal-looking sack, which ended up being negated. But one of his best reps of his career to get to the quarterback in Sack Lamar Jackson at that point, when he is a little more free, I think we're seeing the Dallas Turner that they expected, but how they deal with it this

particular week against the guy who really knows how to run. Darnow Wright is such a great player on the offensive line. I think he's been a total difference maker for them as a first round draft pick. He's taken a huge step forward. And this offensive line is built to really run block. And that's where if they can do that, then the Vikings are going to be at a distinct disadvantage against this team. Yeah, and I do think the Vikings, the changes they've made with the bare front,

I'm putting four defensive linemen in, and then when they don't, they're being hyper-aggressive still with their early-down blitzes, their run blitzes. That stuff has helped, and I wonder how much of that is going to work against Chicago when Chicago has the ability with a mobile quarterback and really good wide receivers to max protect, buy time, throw over the top, or just with Caleb running around back there and buying some time. So it is going to be more of a cat-and-mouse game because it was interesting to see this week, Matt, that Lamar Jackson was not practicing on Wednesday.

I don't know how healthy he was or how mobile they wanted him to be against the Vikings. I think this might be more of the test against Caleb that we thought Lamar was going to be, at least in terms of the mobile part, the ground game part, obviously not as a passer because Lamar is head and shoulders above. But I do think in terms of Caleb running around back there, we haven't seen them have to pin down that kind of guy since Justin Herbert ran around on them three weeks ago. No, that's absolutely right. And Eric Wilson should be a huge part of this game plan as well, he's one of the more fit for this, and will they spy with Blake Cashman after he pulled

his hamstring the last time chasing around Caleb Williams? Will they try to do it with somebody else? A lot of factors there. I couldn't be more impressed with Ben Johnson from an offensive schematic standpoint. I think he's done a phenomenal job getting Caleb Williams under center. And even though he came off like a total madman in training camp, I think that Caleb Williams needed a total madman. And I made fun of it at times. I'm sure you did too. Some of the stories that were coming out of him pulling the entire offense off the field, you're like, okay, Tiger, let's cool it down a little bit. But also, someone needed to hold him to a standard of the NFL standard, not say, oh, yeah, sure, we'll put in your USC offense. Well, USC offense

don't freaking work here. So under center, about 50% of the time under center, which is really wild to think about. And what Blake Cashman told me the other day in the locker room was that when they have him under center, everything is on the table. So the play action, the rollout, putting the extra people in, building the runoff the pass. When you're under center, it's just different. There are limitations of being on the shotgun, even if you try to still run. So I think we've seen that from Caleb Williams.

He is not executing everything that's there. The concern you'd have if you're the Vikings defense is their receivers are good, and we'll see about DJ Moore and whether he plays. Their receivers are good. he's going to have opportunities to hit those receivers. In week one, he missed probably five or six that would have won them the game easily. If he

hits those, you're probably in trouble because you know he's going to make those scramble plays. And I think you know that they're going to be able to get at least something in the run game. Yeah, they're going to need Isaiah Rogers. They're going to need Theo Jackson when he's back there, Harrison, all these guys who were in deep coverage. And, you know, you're hoping Josh Mattelis is not put into those

spots too often if you're the Vikings to play well. Because, yeah, this is going to be one where they can test you deep. They, Ben Johnson very well knows Brian Flores' pressures, he knows how to protect, he knows how to set up those six, seven protection schemes, man protection schemes for his quarterback to take those shots. Even watching against the Giants who have a very good defensive line, you saw how they try to design those things. And they mix it up really well, too. They'll go from under center, boom, quick three-step drop into a 10-yard out to O'Dunzee. And then they'll do the same look into a seven-step kind of rollout into a big, you know, deep cross post concept or whatever that they'll go. they're trying to do to hunt a play downfield. And Caleb is the kind of guy who you can see he's greedy, like he wants to search for those things. He has a low aggressive throw rate, so he doesn't put the ball into harm's way a ton,

but he's looking for them. There was a fourth down early in the Giants game where he was looking, looking, looking, and unlike Aaron Rogers on a rollout who could sense where his personal protector was and kind of maintain the right leverage and all those things, Caleb just kept rolling right into the defender and, you know, ended up throwing the ball away, I think, under pressure for an incompletion, and he had missed an open checkdown on that same side. Like, that's the kind of stuff where still young quarterback, second year, he's still learning and developing.

And I think Flores, my guess is he should be able to bait him into some things that allow him to, you know, allow the Vikings to kind of get his eyes looking one way and then maybe force him into some mistakes down low. But the off-schedule stuff is going to be key because they need to contain it. That is where he can win. And if he gets running around against some older Vikings defenders, we know how that can look. So two more things on the Caleb Williams matter. Number one, from a body language standpoint, he looks like a totally different human being and player than he did last year.

When things would go sideways for him, the slumping on the bench in Minnesota was very clear. I thought he had a problem with this in college. There was a lot of walking off the field, you know, kind of looking like frustrated or, just more dejected than anything, and that's not going to fly very well, even for a Vikings wide receiver that's a star. It's definitely not going to fly for a quarterback because I think it affects everybody. I've felt like his confidence has been a lot better when it comes to that and realizing that everyone's looking at him. And then in terms of late game, we learned this about him last year. Late game, Caleb Williams and this skill set almost reminds me a little bit

of Josh Allen early in his career before he turned the corner where they still won 10 games. games that year, even though Allen's throwing wasn't there yet, in part because anytime they would get the ball, needing a big drive, that scrambling, that playmaking, it just wins a lot of football games in those situations. And the Vikings, they almost gave it away back to the Bears, you know, even in week one, because Caleb Williams was able to find his way down the field and score a touchdown. So this is one where you are never really done with them until you're done. And how do we see this floor as Vikings' defense get consistent? consistently beaten. It's by mobile quarterbacks who were protected by either their own feet or a really smart protection plan and good offensive line. And it's all about beating pressure. And the Vikings doubled down on pressure this off season. They said the pressure is going to beat the coverage. You saw where the money went in terms of the personnel. Can they do that? Can they pin him down? Can they contain him in a way that it feels that everything we said about Lamar Jackson going into last Sunday, we expected Lamar to I did to look a little healthier than he did, more mobile. I feel like we're saying more of the same stuff.

this week, but even more earnestly, because Caleb Williams is younger, obviously a little more of a live wire in terms of trying to contain him. But I do think that the answers to beating this defense are buying time and then finding the throwing lanes that they'll give up downfield. And that's why containing him is so important. Pressure, you say, well, let's talk about the pressure on these two teams. Actually, hang on a minute. Should we talk about the special teams because it's been a huge factor the last couple weeks? And we usually don't break down special teams much unless something is on fire. But did Miles Price try too hard after having such a huge game against Detroit? Maybe it's random. He's just trying to go down and doesn't protect

the football enough. But then another fumble after that. This has become a play in the kickoff that is now majorly impacting the results. Two weeks in a row, I believe if they don't get a 61-yard return to start the game against Detroit, that maybe McCarthy doesn't have the start he has. And if he doesn't against Baltimore, it's 12 to 10 with them having the ball. And it completely changed the game. So where do you stand on their approach to kick returning, how aggressive Miles Price has been, the penalties and the mistakes that they've had on all that, but also there's a high end to that as well. I love it. I love it. I love how aggressive they've been. I think Miles Price has been a complete revelation for them, somebody that even, who was it? Was it West Phillips? The offensive

coordinator, I think, was asked about Miles as a receiver going into training camp. And even West was like, going into the season, we were all kind of like, let's see how this goes with the rookie returner. And he's been great. And yes, he had his rough moments against Baltimore. And I'm sure some of that had to do with pressing. He talked about, I am taught not to brace myself. If you're getting caught up or upended, just go down with the ball tucked high and tight.

And obviously he didn't do that. He said it's second nature. You put your arm out if you're about to fall on your face, which is what he did. Funny enough, he said the guy who caused the fumble was a fellow rookie who was his training partner down in Florida. He said, I hate that it happened, but I'm glad it was him that did it. I do think he's going to learn from this. And he's shown that he's a guy who learns from these things and doesn't get phased by the mistakes, which is the biggest part.

That's why he's such a good punt returner because he's not phased by whatever crap's happening in front of him. And I think he's going to learn from that and not have it hang over his head. And I want them, and I think it's great that they're so aggressive in terms of giving him the almost ultimate green light outside of the situations where they don't want to for, you know, game strategy or whatever. They've given them the ultimate green light to search for a 109-yard kickoff return if you can finally get one. Now, on the punting element of this, I think this is something that the Vikings have to really think about a little bit more when it comes to how they're managing a game in particular. When you talk about aggressiveness and running the ball, and I will always preface everything by saying this is a pass-first and aggressive coach. So expecting him to suddenly not be that is maybe a little bit unrealistic. However, Ryan Wright is punting so well this year by midfield and getting balls inside of the 10, inside of the 15, that I think they have to keep that in mind that Caleb Williams probably isn't leading drives of 92 yards.

And even when they were able to pin back Jared Goff, like, offenses this year, okay, go back, you know, a couple years, oh, we got to go 80 yards, two passes, we'll get the drive going, you know, run, play action off of it, take some shots. but in a league where you're starting at the 35 most of the time or even better sometimes and teams are running a lot and throwing short passes a lot I don't know how many teams want to drive 90 yards and this feels like so much is thrown back to 20 years ago in terms of just how we're talking about football but I think that that's a fact that teams are sort of built to hey if we get four or five first downs we're in a field goal position now and we don't have to travel the whole field but they aren't built to oh we're going to going to rip off 20, 30, 40 yard play like a few years ago when, you know, Gary's dialing up all

those play actions to digs and he's averaging 20 yards to catch. We're just not seeing that a whole lot. So I think that being a little bit safe at times and leaning on the fact that you have had a really good punter this year might be something they need to consider. So not going forward on a fourth and one potentially from midfield as Kevin O'Connell was considering doing against the Ravens before throwing on third and one. You don't want them doing that is what you're saying. What I would say is, say you get into it's first and 10 at your own 40 and you hand off on first down and you get two yards there's going to be a feeling of all right second and eight we need to pass we need to be aggressive we need to get an explosive we need to get a first down i think if you run again and get

four yards and set up third and four and if you fail there and if you have to punt that's okay and trust me no one loves going forward on fourth down more than i do i feel like i have reached heaven in the NFL where teams are just going for it often. And anytime a coach doesn't go for it, they are shamed on the internet. It's like, yes, we've made it. But at the same time, this is a particular team at a particular moment with a particular quarterback and also the other quarterback. How many times is Caleb Williams in a drive hit eight passes, seven passes? Probably not that many so far in his career. Make him do that at times in this game. And I think having some trust in your your punter for the first time.

It was clearly developed. Might make a difference there. But let's circle back to where I was headed with the pressure point. Which one of these teams is more under pressure to win this football game? And here would be, you might say, well, the Vikings, because they need this one to stay in the race. The Bears on Fanduel are now plus 700 to win the division, which, considering where they were at earlier in this season or going into the season, is pretty impressive. not that far behind Green Bay and Detroit in the odds and right with them in the standings, but also they've been called maybe a tad fraudulent by some podcasters,

because they've had to win games at the very end. The Vikings, of course, I think season is more or less over if they cannot get a win here in terms of any chance for the playoffs, but I'm not sure where they're setting the bar for that right now. Anyway, so which one of these teams do you feel like is more under pressure in this game? And I'm not allowed to say both. And it doesn't work that way. It does. Do you want to have like a percentage of like this 65, 35?

It does feel like a push to me. Maybe 55 bears, 45 Vikings. Because I do think Chicago is at that kind of, yeah, they're at that takeoff point where if they don't continue to take off, it is going to feel like, yes, oh, it's all fraudulent. The six wins in the last seven were just against bad teams. You can't even beat the Vikings on the road. I do think it would feel like you could undercut as an objective. fan or observer, you could undercut Chicago's progress with a loss a lot more, where the Vikings

feel like they're more just trying to find their footing and gain some kind of notion of progress with their young quarterback. So I would say the Bears, but I think it's just slightly because I think the Vikings team is still more talented than Chicago. I think they're still at this point a more cohesive and better coach team, even though they're finding their footing with themselves with their personnel, and they're at home. And I think they should win this game. And that's why I think the Vikings have still plenty of pressure on them. And so does J.J. McCarthy in his fifth start to get back on track, show some progress, show some improvement, look good at home.

And the bar for him is fairly low. It's don't get eight false starts, maybe don't even get a couple, and show some progress in terms of the throws down the field, intermediate throws, over the middle of the field, catch and run opportunities, all these things, layered throws, don't run from clean pockets, don't step into deflected passes. these are all basic kind of things that I'm sure I've kept Kevin O'Connell and this coaching staff up late at night trying to figure out how to get, as O'Connell said, some routine things down that we can turn back to and say this is what we do well, this is our offense. So with McCarthy, I think the bar is fairly low and that's why the pressure's on to see if he can do it.

I think with Chicago, if they lose this game and then start to tumble and they end up with nine or eight wins on the season, it's going to look like they didn't really actually make that much progress. from last year. So they have a lot of, this is a, to them, sort of a proof of concept type of game. Like if they come here, beat the Vikings, and they are sitting there at seven and three, then they're going to be able to really puff their chest out and say, Ben Johnson is the man, this has worked, the whole tank to get Caleb and build this roster and tear it apart and build it back up. Everyone's a genius and all those things. If they lose, it's much more in question how genius everybody really is. That's the crazy swings of the NFL. And for the Vikings, you know, I was having a chat with

somebody in the locker yesterday that was like, man, if we would just win this next game and then, you know, you go to Lambo with a chance and then you've got some NFC East teams that are completely out of it that you're going to face. This one is a, you could be right back in this conversation, one game away from the Bears if you win this game. And right in the discussion with a lot of other playoff teams,

San Francisco has a good chance of drifting off, right? Like, nobody's in the South that's any good. You're in a spot where, like, I don't see Carolina of really making a legitimate run the way they've been playing up and down. So I think the answer actually is both. Sorry. It was your rules that you couldn't go both, but I can. But there's a lot of pressure on both these teams. I think it's a huge, huge swing game they could set up for the rest of the season.

But the big question for Mr. Kramer, who actually is 100 in picking the games. Yeah, I went back through all the podcasts and never, yep, you've never. Got one wrong. The Vikings on Fandul are... Incredibly wrong. Okay, all right. Maybe there was one in there that I missed or deleted. The Vikings are three-point favorites on Fandul at home.

Will they win this football game? I did accurately pick last weeks, so there's that. And so this might be the first time I try to get back-to-back correct picks for the week. I am going to pick the Vikings to win this game. I think they're going to win because while Caleb Williams, Williams does not put the ball in harm's way a ton, whether it's a forced fumble, maybe a rare interception. I do think the Flores defense, they're playing well. I think they get back to their takeaway ways against Caleb Williams at home. And I think a fast start by the Vikings'

offense helps them do that and forces Ben Johnson into a little bit more of a catch-up mode. We haven't seen a game script play out like that for the Vikings much this year where they build a decent lead, actually force a team to come from behind. I like their chances to do that, and which is why I pick them to win by, it'll be one score because Caleb will come back in this game, but I think they'll hold on. I don't know how many times I picked 2724 as a score, but I'm going to try it again.

I'm going to do it again. I think Vikings 2724 with a very, very compelling and grip the edge of your chair type of game all the way to the end with Will Reichard from 61 to win it. But we'll see how it goes. Yeah, why not? I mean, it's a chip shot these days for, somebody like Will Reicher. With no cheerleaders on the field. Not like the halftime questions that

you've been asking. It's an inside joke. Don't worry about that. We'll do this again next week and preview Vikings and Packers. Until then, we'll see how it goes. Football. Football. Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider presented by Fandul, Matthew Collar, here and from CBS Sports, the Pushing the Pile podcast these days. Mike Renner returns to the show. And here's why Mike is on the show. Because we need an independent arbiter here. Like all of us are watching JJ McCarthy. We've seen a lot of McCarthy. The fans want to watch through a certain lens where it focuses on the good, maybe other folks focus a little more on the bad. So you to me, I'm going to say this with no offense to anybody else I know.

Mike, I think that you are the best tape watcher I know. If I needed one person and, you know, of the expert guys, our friends, Cody Alexander, Bobby Peters, those guys are are great at this too at their areas of the football. But of taking tape and explaining it to me, I think that you are as good as it gets. So you watch the J.J. McCarthy tape. How you feeling? So I think with any, just to couch this first, with the young quarterback and any young player, you kind of have to have the baseline of what they were. And then what you want to see is either strengths getting better, weaknesses, improving. You want to see growth in some way, shape, or form. And so I even after I watched McCarthy actually the other day, I went back and read his scouting report from college.

And the most worrisome thing for me was the cons of the scouting report basically read like his cons right now. It's one speed thrower. And I think one of the most concerning things watching his tape is just how much effort he's really putting into throws. If you watch the high-end guys, they're not, he's, I can't remember seeing an NFL quarterback recoil after a throw. Like he's a closer in baseball, right? Like that snap where your hand comes back on you. That's just not the most efficient way to throw a football accurately. Like if you're adding that at the end, you're doing a little too much. And so that part of his game, you're just, seeing a lot of lasers and a lot of those lasers are not where they need to be at this

point. I think he has an issue with over striding. He did in college at Michigan. He still does now on tape. And I think he had an issue at Michigan of, not an issue, but he loved going to his first read. He would force his first read. If he thought he had a good matchup, he was going to it almost regardless. And I think that's been also one of the biggest issues, and especially throwing that Justin Jefferson is, you know, he's just forcing balls to Justin Jefferson that he has no business throwing. So those things were big cons on tape at Michigan. And it's four games here, right? It's still a very small sample size. He does need to play more football. This could be a very different conversation four weeks from now. But through four

games, the cons that you hoped a year and a half, you know, or a year and a half on the bench or just like not on the bench, but like a year and a half sitting and working and doing whatever he could being injured, that they would be improved upon. They haven't been at this point. Yeah, the issue I think is that the team may be underestimated just how much he would need to do to improve as a thrower because I think the mental part of it, I think he understands the offense and the goals of each play and I think outside of this week with a bunch of false starts. He's done a good job overall with operation. False starts. Who knows exactly what happened

there. But in terms of like getting the play, understanding the play. And what I see is, okay, I've seen a lot of this stuff before from, you know, Darnold and Kirk in the past. And I kind of have a sense for, all right, well, this is where it's supposed to go. And I totally agree with that he wants it to go the way that the play is designed when sometimes you just have to go, all right, well, I'm going to have to take an L on that. The other thing is that I see from him too is trying to force the throws on the move as opposed to just always taking off and getting the first down. And we saw this on the Melchai Starks interception where there's open space in front of him,

but it's I'm going to try to make a play. And there were a few times against the Lions where I thought the same thing. I'm going to try to make a play early in the game. against the lions he rolls out you can scramble out of bounds for a three yard gain or you can hang in hang in throw it down the sideline and get demolished by some lion's linebacker it's like uh j jay that's not you can't be doing that because that's what's going to get you killed uh in the NFL so i think there's a lot of these things but as an actual pure thrower all of those reps that could have been taken behind sam darnald were entirely washed out and trying to rehab yourself

back to 100% to get cleared to play in OTAs. You're not really developing at that point. You're just learning how to actually run an offense. And I think a lot of that is showing up now. Yes, I agree with all those points. It's funny, the last con I had on his profile, it just says doesn't want to give up on plays. That was, he, to the bitter end, he will,

and that's, you know, kind of seen with Jack's dark, he's going to take too many hits. He's taking too many hits for who he is. He's a little undersized kind of quarterback In terms of, like, frame, he needs to protect himself better. He needs to learn how to give up on plays when maybe one out of five, you'll serve your, you'll salvage. But those other four could be the difference between you playing the rest of the game or you being on the sideline. But it's four starts, and I think he's almost too fast.

He's moving through the offense too fast at times, whether it's his ball handling, his footwork, he needs to just breathe. Like watching him, I'm just like just the best at the position, they look like they're not ever in a hurry. But JJ, it's like everything feels like it's in a hurry. And that's just something that comes with experience that will get better. And I'm just very curious when that does get better, when he does have the sort of just zen to him in the pocket.

What will his game look like then? it's going to be hard to evaluate until that happens. And if it doesn't necessarily ever happen, well, then you're just screwed. But I think it's just going to be really tough to evaluate his game until it feels like it's slowing down. So there's a play toward the end of the game. I think it's on the last drive where they've got a minute and a half left to go. They're down by eight. They've got a chance to drive the field.

And one of his first throws, Jefferson is breaking out toward the sideline. It's covered two. And he throws it faster than Shohei Otani. and it just flies off of Jefferson's hands. But the way that the end zone tape is, you can actually see Kevin O'Connell on the sideline going, slow down, calm down. And I think that there's a part of this with J.J. McCarthy where he wants so badly to make it happen. And his first introduction to the NFL was him having a fourth quarter comeback and the crazy locker room and everybody's going nuts.

wins NFC offensive player the week or whatever, which, you know, you can make fun of that if you want, but still you're getting the award for that and this great kind of game. And I think that in every moment, uh, he's trying to push that, which is why I thought in both Detroit and with Baltimore, the opening script, he looked so calm and so prepared and so good to go. It was sort of as the game went on, even with Detroit, where it was getting more antsy. It was trying to force things. It was trying to put it all on his shoulders. And no matter how many times you tell him, you have T.J. Hawkinson underneath wide open. Please just check the ball down to T.J. Hawkinson and take eight yards and then go on to the next play. I think it's sort of built

into him a little bit. My friend Drew McGarry texted me, does JJ have a little too much dog in him? And I think that, you know, there is, like that kind of makes sense a little bit that when everyone has put so much pressure on him, hey, you got this great team, hey, you're supposed to be competing right away. You're supposed to be the guy that someone can have a natural. I'm going to push too hard for this. It's funny because when you're describing that, like, that was exactly my personality playing sports growth. Like, I didn't obviously play football. But basketball, I was, uh, you know, all right at basketball. And I would have to calm myself down before the games. Like people were like hyping themselves up getting up. Like I had to chill before

the games or else I would be too hyped and then if like I was playing well or we were from behind and it was like third fourth quarter I would be doing too much I I would have to be told like hey let the game come to you instead of really trying to force things that was my personality and so I get that mental just wanting to do wanting to be the guy so badly that he's in And really the best, you know, the best I ever played was when I would either have, I would have like a terrible first half. And so I would be like, that would get me. If I had a really bad first half, chances are my second half would be awesome.

Like one game I scored 20 points in two minutes just because the first half I missed like, I went like 0 for six. And I came in halftime. And that's when like I got down and that's, I didn't have to do too much that. I wasn't trying to really be the guy after that. And so that's kind of psychologically, I think, where he needs to get. to is he doesn't have to be everything for this office. They have enough everywhere else that he just needs to facilitate. And I think that's where his career is going to take off as

mentally when he gets there. Now, when it comes to the good stuff for him, I think there is a lot of boxes that have been checked by McCarthy. And one is in terms of arm strength. Now, arm talent is different, but arm strength, that ball is cooking. In fact, it's cooking way too fast it's a it's it's it's mock 23 or whatever but that is there in terms of if you want him to fit a ball into a window he can absolutely do it when he does throw a touch pass actually his throwing technique looks a lot better when he's trying to take velocity off like at the end of the lion's game or there's a couple throws in this game one nailer for a touchdown where he just yep delivers it to a spot and then he goes out to get it that's one of his best throws and you look at

he almost he almost is like in slow motion a little bit and hey that ball actually comes out right the mobility the athleticism I think is really something that could be a threat for the Vikings for him even if they want to design runs and things like that so he's checked a lot of boxes of the physical tools and that sort of thing and I think that overall at least in front of us he's handled the roller coaster of this because we can really see guys melt with the criticism and everything that you take and 22-year-olds, you can't just tell them, hey, man, just like log off. Just like, don't look at my space.

Like, that's just not where we're at as a society at this moment. So I think that the things that you would be excited about have been there. And everything for me always keeps coming back to needs to play football. You know what he needs? And this is a, maybe I'm old. Maybe you're old. If you agree with this, I feel like he needs full preseason games like we used to see from guys back of the day.

I feel like he needs two a days. I feel like he needs just more and more and more reps of doing this, which I don't think you can change how you throw in the middle of a season. I think that's going to have to go to his own off season and really a deep commitment to getting this down. Yeah, or just go out and get really drunk the night before the game. I think couldn't hurt him. You just show up, you know, it's like that best round when you're hung over in golf.

That's the JJ needs. in the football field. No, but there are positive, though. I mean, he is tough as nails. Like half of those games, he had Justin's school block and permanent left tackle, right? Like, that could break anyone. That can make anyone look bad. So I, there are things that are very good building blocks for.

When you have his armed talent, when you have his mentality, and when you have, you know, his toughness down and down out, you can build upon those things. we just got to start seeing it. It's just where a year and a half in, haven't seen it. If we don't start seeing it soon, then we can start getting it. Well, you take you're taking me exactly where I wanted to go next, which is just, is this a, if it's not there by this year, is it into next year? Because this is not really a team that is set up to say, hey, why don't like with Tennessee and Cam Ward? Yeah, it's been horrific with

Cam Ward, but I don't know, what am I supposed to do with that, right? Like that, give that two. years. Caleb Williams. I mean, all of us, I may be slightly guilty of this, like trying to call it with Caleb Williams in that first year, probably need three years before we really know on Caleb Williams. But this one doesn't feel like they have time to have three years to really know on JJ McCarthy. It feels like if I were to be, you know, put myself in quest of shoes and what I would do this off season, I would get that kind of backup that'll push the starter. You get like a Mac Jones. in there. You get someone who started some games who if, you know, who can kind of just, I like

what they did with Daniel Jones a little bit. Get a guy like that who has proven that he can play at the NFL level, maybe not play great, but give you a floor in that offense. That's what I would do is bring someone like that in next offseason. And just to say like, hey, this guy's here. Maybe we paid them $12, $15 million to be here, not an insubstantial amount of money. And it's like, JJ, it's your team, but just know that this is, this is an insurance plan that we are happy to go to if things don't work out. So from a schematic perspective, last day I want to ask you about this and then you have been known to watch Green Bay Packers games. So I need some takes on that.

And Caleb Williams, too, as the Vikings get ready to play the Bears. But from a schematic standpoint, what do you see? Because this has been a hard thing for me to work through with we know that O'Connell's offense is aggressive. We know that it's a past first offense. This is something McCarthy was working on all offseason and seemed to be getting during a training camp. But I also think that there can be a little bit too much on a young quarterback where you're asking him and O'Connell saying in the press conference, well, you know, he needs to get to the checkdown.

Okay, I understand that. But if the checkdown is the fourth read and the Ravens are running a split field coverage and a simulated pressure and there's just a lot going on there, right? So how do we balance evaluating McCarthy in a bubble as himself versus is there something that Kevin O'Connell can do to help him along in this process while he's still learning? Yeah, it's a difficult balance to strike with any on quarterback as we've seen with just you know, all the young quarterbacks have come into league lately. And it's also probably difficult with JJ because he's not going to ever say put less. You know, he's probably in there

arguing like, no, I don't. I want the full offense. I want the full player, like I might suppose whatever. He's going to say that. So you always have to protect a guy from himself. So yeah, I do think that it is very much it's downfield. It's asking him to attack the intermediate level a lot. And that's kind of the, that's the bar for quarterback. It's all the Mendoza line of quarterbacks, if you will, is if you could really consistently hit the intermediate area of football field, between the linebackers, between the safeties, that area and do it well, you'll be a long-term NFL quarterback. And that offense asked you to do it a lot. So it is putting a lot on his plate. But also it's just like, if you go back and he just hits the throws that are there is the other thing.

And it's just that offense then moves a lot better than it would have. So it's kind of a hard balance because I'm not sure it's too much. Obviously, you worry about the hits he's taking. That's probably the biggest thing. But he's made a lot of correct reads and just missed is probably where I'm at. It's like it's the offense is functioning well. He's just missing a lot of the times when he should be hit. That's exactly where I stand after watching the tape back for especially the

Ravens game. It's like, it's, that's not a bad decision where you threw the ball, where you chose to go with the football was the right place to go. You just did not get it to that place. Or what happens, I think, a lot is you got it to that place. And this game is so insane. Millic seconds late. So there's a batted ball where Jordan Addison is clearing the linebacker and he's going to be there for a touchdown. If that ball just comes out. And you've got to throw it because the NFL's the NFL as he's basically at the linebacker. Then you have to throw it out in front of him. Instead, he hitches, then goes to throw it. He's already sort of shown where he's going with the football. They get their hands up. They knock it down. It's probably going to get knocked

down anyway because the defenders are seeing it. But this is the micro stuff that you have to play to learn. And when you're talking about this offense attacks between 10 and 20 yards all the time all day long it's fantastic at it and where was j j mccarthy best passing in college it was in the intermediate area of the field so they've designed it to work with him and that's why when i hear over and over kos he's doing it wrong it needs more short passing his short passing is really not his strength like the the hey take the snap get rid of it super quick that's just not who he is so uh it always i guess always forever if it's not working that everyone's doing everything wrong but unfortunately it seems the simplest answer.

But that's why you're here is to confirm things that I thought. I want to ask you about Caleb Williams. I have to say, I'm very impressed with Ben Johnson. Very, very impressed with Ben Johnson. Because under center, Caleb Williams is doing a lot of good stuff. And I'm sure that was not an easy conversation with him, a shotgun quarterback who loves to be Mahomes out there. It's like, guess what, brother?

You're going to have to be some Jared Gough in this world if you're going to make it work. They've built off the run extremely well. He has not taken sacks the way he did. I still see the passing, though, for Caleb as being here or there from a week to week basis. But how much better is Caleb Williams as he gets set to face the Vikings? Yeah, I think the biggest thing is that there is a lot left on the table week and a week out. And yet it's still a good offense.

And it's, I think, like, the scary thing when you're the rest of the NSC North is that he can improve. And he is struggling with his accuracy. He does miss probably too many throws. But where he has improved and where Ben Johnson's kind of changed up his offenses, you know, the 70 completion percentage thing that he floated out preseason, he threw that out the window, Ben Johnson. This offense in recent weeks, you know, since early on the season, since they kind of evolved, has just changed until like,

let's lean into Caleb Lloyd's making big plays. Let's get some max pro in, and let's get the ball down the football field. And even if we don't, Caleb has these big wide pockets where the sacks he was taking last year from shotgun dropback. When you're under center play action and have seven guys in pass protection, one guy gets through, it's a lot easier to leak out the edge when you have all those guys back there. And so I think that's the biggest difference is leaning into that part of Caleb's game. It's like, Kat, he's going to hold the ball a long time. He's done a lot of nice stuff in terms of hitting his back foot, attacking the middle of football field

that he didn't do last year. There's some seeds on his tape up the seams. And that's probably the biggest evolution as a passer. But what I've seen is Ben Jostin just saying, hey, we're going to scheme it so that you have as much time as you need. And then you can even create more time if you need it. So I think that's the biggest thing is that there are improvements. And then there's the offense getting catered to him.

And he's just so talented. I think that he is just a true freak of one-on-one with the defensive end, who's not, you know, Micah Parsons, he's probably going to make that guy this. And he has, like, consistently this year. I guess the bangles was like a comedy show. It was like three stooges where they're just falling over themselves, trying to get Caleb Williams. And he could do that, Steve.

So you give that element to his game and then just a little improvement in the on in structure over the middle of the football field that we've seen and the Bears' office looks a lot scary than it did early on this season. No, it's, I think, a great adaptation from Ben Johnson. And also, the other thing is, too, that if you look around the league, it's so interesting to see what's old as new with a lot more big dudes. I had a conversation with one of the Vikings blocking tight ends the other day. And he was like, this is great.

I can stay in the league for a few more years because people going to need. Job security. Exactly. People got to need a big old Nick Vanette pushing bodies around. It's worked really well. And the way that they designed in the off season. And I think, you know, as analytic folk, you and I were probably skeptical about this strategy. But they went out and said big run blocking offensive linemen. And let's, you know, build off of that first. And even a mediocre D'Andre Swift can be good here. Then they bring in a young running back. He's having success. I think a lot of that's bent. Johnson, a lot of that is by design to build that offensive line to run block, and then you're setting up favorable situations for Caleb Williams. This to me is what all the best teams in the NFL are doing right now. If we went back five years, everybody's in the shotgun, everybody's running everything downfield. It's a little bit different. But this is what's working. And I think this is the biggest challenge for the Vikings is when they put big people on the field, can you

stop the run? Can you stop Caleb from, you know, having as much time to throw as he's going to need back there? Yeah, everyone is trying to take defenses out of nickel. Everyone's trying to get the three linebackers back on the football field, just because that gives you the numbers in the passing game that you want, even if it's, even if you have one wide receiver on the football field, if you have, you know, three linebackers, if they're in base defense, your old school base defense, you're probably getting a one-on-one on the outside. And with, modern wide receivers, my receiver ones, they win those. I mean, it's that's Seahawks' offense to a T is all they're doing is just saying put a bunch of guys on there and we'll

just have Jackson Smith & Jigba go one-on-one. Don't care if it's your best corner, he's winning. So, yeah, it's just sound offensive football. And like you said, that's the way the game's going. You're only going to see that go more lean heavier into that because of how, how tough it is to pass against two high defenses and nickel defenses with how defenses are nowadays. Your analysis of the Vikings has always been incredibly fair despite your ownership of the Green Bay Packers. So as Packers owner, I'm seeing a lot of things that are pretty wild for people to say about Matt LaFleur, considering how good of a coach he's been. Everybody else in the NFC North is like, yes, lean into firing Matt LaFleur. That seems like a great idea for you.

Look, if Bow Melton is playing corner than playing receiver and Jordan Love throws a ball right through his soul and he can't catch it, that's pretty tough. Tucker Kraft, one of the best players in the league this year is gone. That's pretty tough. Elkton Jenkins gets hurt. That's pretty tough. But is there something that the offense is doing that you think is causing the inconsistency of a Packers team that has looked really, really good offensively at times? and then against Cleveland, against Philadelphia. I mean, not just rough, but abominable at times.

I think it's their commitment to the running game without, without combing it with the play action game, that we're seeing, you know, Caleb Williams be so successful in, Sam Darnal would be so successful in, that if you are going to be, you know, you're going to be having a lot of two tight-in, three-tied-in sets, and if you want to go heavy personnel. And the back is actually, I aren't really leaning into that

the way some others around the NFL are. But they are still running the football, you know, top 10 highest rate in the NFL, especially in like neutral game situations. They're running the ball even higher than that in terms of rate. You better play action and get explosives off of it. They're getting, you know, their running game has been bad, but it's not been going backwards is, I think, like the biggest thing.

So they get two, one, two yards on first down. and they stick to it. And so they're, you know, they're three quarters in, haven't scored a damn point on Monday night football. I was there. It was tough slog to watch. And they're still just like not changing a thing is I think the biggest thing in their loss is that their defense is so good that they haven't had to adjust

because that Brown's game, the Panthers game, and the Eagles game, they're right there in it the whole time. But they haven't scored. The offense hasn't done anything, but they're, especially, I mean, Panthers and Brown's game, they were winning from them. most of those games. So that's the biggest thing is that he's not scheming up the explosives to combo with what they're trying to do on the ground game. And I do think there is a world where he is fired. Now, it's going to have to come with like missing the playoffs entirely this

year, probably going like eight, eight and one to do it. But they haven't looked that good. You know, and I do get your point about Bo Melton dropping it, but Bo Melton was still their wide receiver five, I think, in that game. Why is he on the field on a fourth down? Yeah. You know, it's a fourth down. It's a high leverage play. He shouldn't be out there on the football field if he was starting a corner for you week one, right?

So things like that, and it's happened on more than one occasion. I think even the week prior against the Panthers, they had a fourth down where Cadion Williams is out there at wide receiver. where it's like, if it's worth down, I don't care if they're tired to get the best three out there. So there are quibbles with Matlfleur and how he's called games for sure. I would be very surprised if he's gone. There's also quibbles about what the front office did.

I mean, Aaron Banks looks like shouldn't even be out there. And you made him one of the highest paid guards in the NFL was off season. Which at the very moment that that happened, every single person was like, what? I mean, I just, who? Like that much? What? I mean, when there were other guards that were veterans that ended up costing half of that, if he was exceptional, then, yeah, guards are getting paid now.

But he was a well below average player with San Francisco. Plus, anybody San Francisco has, I think you have to be a little skeptical just in general of, you know, them being able to cover up certain things. Yeah, with LaFleur, look, I think he is a very good coach. But I also think that there's a little bit of him that has succeeded with pairing things, down in very like Shanahan tree style of, you know, just like quick stuff and, you know, then, okay, we're going to take our big shot at the right time. And I don't know that I see Jordan love playing complete quarterback all the time. It feels like they were sort of able to rig it up a

little bit for him, get the ball to Tucker craft real quick, get yards after catch. And then every so often, hey, roll out, throw 50 yards down the field. Let's see if we get a catcher a penalty. On a week to week basis, that's just not the same as having a quarterback attack the intermediate areas of the field time and time again, go through multiple reads, having lots of adjustments at the line of scrimmage. So can Jordan Love not do that? Or does he maybe have too much fear of asking Jordan Love to do that? That's, he's scheming like he's afraid of something. Now, is it the weapons? Is it love? Is it the offensive line? It could be all three or a combination of all three.

But it also feels like he's scheming, he schemes after Aaron Rogers, especially with Jordan Love, like he's responsible. Like the players are almost interchangeable and that it's his scheme that has to win it. If I had any criticism, and again, I think he's been a great coach.

I don't think he's top five coach in the NFL. I don't think he's about a half coached in the NFL. He's somewhere in that in between. but he does if he runs into ruts it's because it feels like he has to call the perfect play for the perfect moment as opposed to just saying you know let's trust that jordan love can operate in office um let me sneak in one question that viking fans don't want because we're like you know a little ways into the show maybe they've only listened for 10 minutes is sam garnard darnal going to keep doing this unfortunately i think so

And for everyone's sake here, because I think the Seahawks are the best team in the NFC with him doing this. But the one thing, if there is one thing, I mean, he is still her turnover grown, and we just saw that this past week. And no one's made a play left-handed. Their defense has been so good. They've been so effective with that play action game that no one's actually just been like, hey, drop back to pass on us. It's kind of, you remember the Saints early on last season when they were. just the offense was insane. And all of a sudden when, you know, the defense started taking a step back, when the offensive line got a little bang up and they started to play from behind,

it was like, okay, this doesn't look anything close to what we saw before. No one's really had the Seahawks play from behind and just make them turn into what a dropback passing offense looked like, you know, eight years ago in the NFL. So I think that's the one thing where I'm like, we'll see when it has to happen if that is. But it's really a hope. to argue with what he's done and what that office looks like. It's just built to be consistent in today's NFL. It's so, I mean, I just love with Kuwaitiakos. I think it's so sound principles. The principles of the office are so sound that you're just going to have to play great team defense to consistently beat it. All right. Let me give you some Super Bowl odds.

And you could tell me what actually just yell when you like one. Okay. When you like the Super Bowl, I'll just yell, stop. Okay. So over on our friends at Fandul, the Kansas City Chiefs are the favorite at plus 600. Then the Eagles at plus 650. The Rams adds plus 750. The Lions at plus 800.

Seahawks at plus 950. The bills have dropped to plus 950. Colts. I kind of like the Seahawks at 950. Okay. So you're really buying Seattle. then don't just this week how great is this week ram because i'm on the opposite of this game i'm really buying the rams i think stafford is playing like not just a great quarterback but like

legendary quarterback right now and mcvay is the the best coach there is yeah i just think the seahs defenses built to week in a week out just get the job they're so there's no holes there's nowhere to attack your best bet is to just target tarryke woolen and hope to get PIs, mistackles, that sort of thing. But, like, with the addition of Nicomand Worry and since Devon Witherspoons come back, they've just been terrified to try to score on that defense. Mike Renner, CBS Sports, pushing the Pile podcast.

You guys have JP Acosta now, which is cool, really good addition to that podcast. So love what you're doing over at CBS Sports. Very, very happy for all of your success. And, you know, we'll see how it goes next week in Lambeau Vikings. Packers. We'll see if your ownership stake, you still want to have it after that, depending on how the rest of

this season goes. But really, no, I really do appreciate you taking the time to look at the McCarthy tape, break it down for us here on the show. You are the best, my friend. So thanks for doing this. Appreciate you, Matthew. Thank you for having me on.