Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - The Vikings tried everything to give the Lions an upset win

Episode Date: October 10, 2021

Matthew Coller and Sam Ekstrom discuss the Vikings' 19-17 victory over the Detroit Lions in which their offense was uninspiring and they nearly fumbled away the game if not for a last-second Greg Joseph 54-yard field goal. They talk about why the Vikings continue to do the same things over and over and put themselves in positions like they were on Sunday. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the post. What in the heck was that? 19 to 17 win for the Minnesota Vikings over the Detroit Lions. Matthew Collar and Sam Ekstrom here, Purple Insider. And you know, Sam, I want to start off reflectively. I want to reflect on all the games that we have sort of walked downstairs and went, what was that supposed to be? And why was that the way that it was? Why did the Vikings win this football game by two? Why did they need a 54-yard kick to win it? Why didn't they blow the doors off of a horrendous Detroit Lions team that averaged, let me check here, about five yards per pass play in this game. And yet it required Greg Joseph to play hero in the very last moments, but not why as in, yes, why Alexander Madison fumbled the football. That's why, or why,

because they couldn't get the ball to Adam Thielen until the very last drive. Those are the whys on the surface level of, yes, that's what we just saw. But why deeper level? Is it because the same coach coaches the same way always, no matter what, and this is what you get? Is it because the quarterback has the same weaknesses that he has always had, and this is what you get? Is it because the quarterback has the same weaknesses that he has always had, and this is what you get? And after the game, when he doesn't throw to Justin Jefferson in the entire second half, he says, well, they were playing two safeties. As if that's an acceptable thing to say in 2021, that if they're playing two deep safeties,

you just cannot throw to your best player. Sorry, couldn't do it. Couldn't swing it. At the end of the first half, the Vikings decide to just basically kneel down and run the clock out. They hand off. And Mike Zimmer says, I don't know why I have to explain to you why I wouldn't have been more aggressive. That's what Zimmer said after the game. I don't know why I have to explain it. Maybe because we don't understand why you do the same things over and over again that are not winning plays. And I think I do know one why though, why I got so many tweets after that game saying, God, too bad we won. In the hundreds of tweets that said, too bad we won between emails, tweets, texts from friends who are Vikings fans. Too bad we won because a loss might have changed something. So we're not coming back up and saying, well, why is it like this? Because it's always like this because it's always been like this. And because when the league changes and things

change around you, but you do not change, this is what you end up with. You end up with 19 to 17 wins that you probably should not have won that keep you alive because you always find a way to keep yourself alive. And now we move on with the season and we already know the script the book is written we know exactly which way this thing goes and and and here we are sort of asking the same questions again that that's how i'm feeling after that 19 to 17 win i wish i'd been stronger in my conviction to to really tout my gut feeling that this was going to be a close game. It just felt too similar to the other gimmies of years past. It felt like the Falcons game. It felt like the Bills game of a few years ago. And there were, I think, three ways this could have gone, right? And the Vikings

somehow found a fourth. The three ways were domination, which they've done to Detroit over the Kirk Cousins era. They've beat them by an average of 12 per game. That was a likely outcome. Number two was sort of an ugly but workmanlike victory, which it was going to be until the very end, where you walk away still, I think, discouraged about the offense, but not having to sweat too badly in the fourth quarter. You can feel good about the defense and you walk out of here probably not feeling great, but feeling like you're afloat. And then there was the, what almost happened was the complete and utter collapse, the disaster, the total system failure that would have lost people their jobs. And I think the 54-yard field goal at the end saved jobs. I think jobs were

hanging in the balance. We've seen the video already of Mike Zimmer reacting on the sideline, you know, almost looking angry, like on his face, kind of just out of like the emotion of that moment, because I think he was feeling that heat. That was a fireable near loss. And they unlocked door number four, which was go from abject failure to exhilaration at the end, redemption for Greg Joseph in a couple of ways. After missing in week two, he gets the game winner today. He had missed a 49-yarder just minutes earlier, comes back and makes a 54. But maybe there's a wake-up call element to this, maybe. But this is what we predicted, Matthew. We predicted that you wasted good Kirk Cousins games and lost them. And now he has regressed to the mean.

Remember when we were talking MVP two weeks ago? And not anymore. So easily mitigated by teams mixing up looks, teams bracketing receivers or providing those cloud coverages. So easily flustered, I think, by the thought of pressure. Seems to be fleeing the pocket faster than he was earlier in the season. Mike Zimmer, not pleased with the offense at all, comes out after the game and says, yeah, I'm not happy with the way we didn't take advantage of a lot of chances. Well, that's squarely on the offense. So I wouldn't say there's, I don't know if there's still a rift between Zimmer and the offense, but there's a disconnect right now. But at the same time, with the way they're calling these games, Caller,

the second and long runs, the inability to work the ball downfield, I don't know who I look at. I don't know if I look at Zimmer, if I look at Kubiak, Cousins, or some combination of the three. But something has happened to shrivel this offense after they looked so good for three weeks. It's a total regression and totally betrays what Mike Zimmer's been talking about with, he's got a great football team. He's got a great offense. I think they can get back to

where they were. I don't know. I don't know if they will. So this sort of reminded me of last year's Jacksonville and Carolina wins where it was like, oh, good for you. I mean, you beat two of the worst teams in the NFL in the final moments. And it's same here where this is not one that you put on a victory ring and you do not. I mean, you could carry the kicker off, but like no one else deserves to be raised up on the shoulders after this game. And I think what it really makes it stand out to you is that all the weaknesses were weak to have Detroit be in this game. That Kirk Cousins weaknesses when, like you said, sometimes it doesn't even need to actually be pressure. It just needs to kind of feel like pressure for him. Christian Derisaw got in the

game today. We could talk about that a little bit, but trey flowers was in the backfield quite a bit he's a good player not a great player they will certainly face some great players as they go forward but every time the other team has a good player they derail the game plan right and every time they don't have a consistent run game now alexander madison ends up with 113 yards but 40 something or on one play it was not a run game that was two points 2.7 yards on every other carry okay perfect i'm glad you had that stat because it did not feel like a good run game for the vikings at any point today and i didn't think that was alexander madison's fault i thought that that was entirely the offensive line being bullied again and so all right you don't run the ball successfully which means that the other team

isn't going to bring up that safety and that means that all of a sudden you just cannot throw the football to adam thielen and justin jefferson you are not allowed if they play a safety you are not allowed it is illegal it is against the rules i don't care how many other teams in the nfl i see it do all the time find a way to throw their top wide receivers with two deep safeties because it's a two deep safety league now because everyone's trying to stop the pass. And yet I see a lot of other teams passing the ball to their best wide receivers. So that excuse to me goes out the window, but it's a thing we've seen over and over. We see the defense get dominated again in the run game, four and a half yards a carry, over 100 yards. DeAndre Swift ripped off a few very impressive runs against the Vikings.

They need a big stop at the end of the game. They don't get it. They don't come through in the big moments when they needed it the most here, and they haven't this year at all, and they did when it's the worst team. They did when it was the worst team you could possibly play in the Detroit Lions. They come through and it still required a 54-yard field goal.

So it required a complete bomb from the kicker in order for that to happen. So when that's the case, when you go through sort of the, what are the criticisms of this team? And check every single box against the team that's 0-4.

And man, they got some fight in them. And I have to give Dan Campbell credit for going for two at the end and a great throw from Jared Goff to the back of the end zone when his first read was taken away. And then he fired a bullet because he's not good, but he is an NFL quarterback who can make that play if you don't defend it. And if you let DeAndre Swift walk into the end zone after the Madison fumble oh and the Madison fumble is sort of emblematic of this team as well where you knew they didn't have a lot of turnovers early in the first few games you knew they turned the ball over but also they just seem to do this like they fumble in the first game they miss the field goal in the other game they fumble in this game game. They miss the field goal in the other game. They fumble in this game. It's like they're in a lot of games and it's close, but it shouldn't have been close.

Just like probably in Cincinnati, it shouldn't have. In Arizona, it shouldn't have. In Cleveland, I think they just got whipped by a better team, but didn't come through at the end. I mean, it just, it's sort of like, it feels very much like a loss because you were 10 point favorites against this horrendous football team and you found every way you

possibly could to leave them in it. And that's where I think it leaves so many people saying, make a change anyway. Like why keep doing this same thing over and over again on repeat? Because if you play this way way even against the Carolina team that's overrated and lost to Philly and was so blatantly overrated in the first three weeks but if you do it against Carolina they're probably good enough to beat you if you do it against Dallas they're definitely good enough to beat you and the better teams the rest of the way and when you said like could it be a galvanizing win? I would just look to last year.

Someone's going to have to explain to me what is different about this football team than last year. They're still very vulnerable on defense. I don't watch them play defense and think, oh, I trust this team to just destroy everyone. They're vulnerable to teams running over them. The last two quarterback performances have been horrendous. But if they're the receiver, top receiver gets hurt immediately for Detroit and then golf struggles and does typical golf, stupid things. But if he doesn't, I mean, Detroit is right in this game or wins it anyway. Uh, if he and Baker Mayfield play even just a

little better. So, you know, that that's, I think people are feeling very much in a purgatory with this team. And when the field goal goes in, there's got to be conflict of that could have been a change. That could have been some sort of spark to take this in a different direction. And now we sort of carry on and we'll see what happens next week. But I don't think though, let me make this point. I don't think Sam, this takes any pressure off of anyone. I agree. I don't think Zimmer and company bought any equity with this win. Therefore, you go into Carolina, I think, with the stakes even higher. I think you probably lost equity in a win.

And you stay afloat for another week. You survive to give yourself a chance to be 500 at the buy. But it does ring very similarly to last year where we heard the same story. And, you know, I guess to their credit, Zimmer confesses that it's a bad performance in victory. He said the same thing against Jacksonville. He said the same thing against Carolina. And I think fans maybe naively were hoping, well, you're six and six. Maybe you can come out here and surprise some people. Whipped by Tampa, whipped by the Bears, whipped by the Saints, season dead, right?

So you're still earlier in this year with maybe a chance to improve or get back to where you were. But you still are playing bad teams right now. To address your point on the defense, pie chart of blame, I think it's a small sliver on the defense in this one, honestly. I think you can pick apart the touchdown, the run played for the touchdown, but they didn't allow a touchdown until they turned the ball over in their own red zone. Goff was totally overmatched, and a lot of that's just goth but I think the pass rush was good defensive backs were hit or miss but all in all I'm okay with this defense you know if they're giving up yards on the ground but stopping the quarterbacks through the air to me that's okay I don't think you need to to destroy the defense after this one although I agree with you that

better quarterbacks probably pick them apart more. We can't really know what that alternative reality looks like if they're playing a better QB, but three QBs have come in here. Even Russell Wilson sort of cooled down in that second half, and they've looked pretty ordinary. So there is a little bit to be encouraged about that, but you got to pair it with a little bit of offense. So I'd be curious to see your thoughts on who is culpable for the conservative play calling, the unimaginative offense, the before the half fiasco where you've got a chance to put the boot on the throat and going into and coming out of halftime, you get zero first downs. That's absurd in today's day and age, especially not even trying to score before halftime. You know, the luster might be wearing off Kubiak a little bit and Mike Zimmer

might be keeping the training wheels on too long. I'm not sure which way to go with it. And Zimmer criticized what seemed to be criticizing Kubiak and being conservative after they forced I think it was a turnover he never clarified what drive he meant yeah he I think that I figured this out because I think what he meant was after the Kendrick's interception they ran for a negative play or got sacked or ran for a negative play. They got a negative play to start it out. And then it was a bootleg incompletion and then a screen, I think. So, but it was, I mean, that was just sort of what they do is this team talks about how when they get to third down, if it's third and long, it's just over.

And that's how they play. And it's like, I was saying about the two deep safeties where it's like, well, they're playing two deep safeties. So I can't throw to Justin Jefferson. They only threw to Jefferson eight times. A lot of it was early in the game. His seven catches, 124 yards. This man cannot be stopped. We have not seen anyone stop stop him the completion percentage when you're throwing his way is like 70 or higher percent uh he had a couple drops early in the season and that went away quick he made an incredible play to start the game today and look if there are two people covering him i bet he can beat two people because he's that good like how do these other receivers

in the nfl get a hundred and something catches? Well, Justin Jefferson is on several plays. I was watching his body language, sort of slumping his shoulders after a play where he knew, man, I beat my guy. And if I get a tight window throw, I make a play there. And he was not given that opportunity. And Adam Phelan had one chance to catch a ball in the middle of this game and he didn't catch it. But other than that, the only two receptions that he a ball in the middle of this game and he didn't catch it. But other than that, the only two receptions that he had were at the end of the game and he only had

three targets. It's just, I think that it has to go on Mike Zimmer because it's happened for so long over different offensive coordinators. I just can't see. And even though this year is a quick pass offense and Gary Kubiak's was a deep pass offense, but Kubiak's offense always waited until they were down two scores to then start firing it up. And today it sort of looked a lot like some of the things we saw, even with Pat Schirmer in 2017, where if they would get up, they would just sort of run the ball. But we understood that because the quarterback was Case Keenum. And it made a lot of sense to get up on the Atlanta Falcons in 2017 up whatever it was. I forget the score is like 13 to nine and just like handoff and handoff and handoff because you have

the number one defense in the league and it's Case Keenum. And who's trusting Keenum after he would sort of throw the ball up and throw interceptions and things like that. We totally got it. But with cousins and with Jefferson and with Thielen, uh, the lack of aggressiveness, I think starts with Zimmer and then it is passed down to whoever his play caller is. And this goes even back to the jets game in 2018, where D Filippo was aggressive, passing the ball late with a lead and Zimmer lost it and in the media after the game said he was sick of them throwing with the lead and making mistakes and things like that I mean it's always been his philosophy when playing ahead to sort of ground and pound don't turn the ball over but the thing is that they turn it over anyway like that even

even when they are trying to play this conservative type of let's check it to cj ham or tyler conklin underneath instead of taking that shot down the field which by the way the vikings have to be last in the universe in pass interference like that they get and not because of not because they're getting screwed but because they don't even give them those chances how many times every every Sunday do you see someone throw the ball up and Jefferson, a receiver of his caliber gets dragged down? Well, you don't see it here because they don't do it. Um, so that's always been pervasive throughout the Zimmer era. And I think that that it all comes back to him. It all comes back to every play caller knowing if I'm aggressive, if I'm too aggressive,

then that's not what the head coach is going to want. And that's how it felt today. It felt like this is what, this is what they want. This is how they want to play. This is the type of score that they want to win with 19 to 17. Yeah. It's just a defeatist mentality on a couple levels, you know, just the overall philosophy of not feeling like you need more ever before halftime. You're up by seven. You've just given up a field goal and you can easily get that field goal back. All you need to do is, and they were at the 25, I think, maybe it was the 20, 20 or 25. All you need is 40 yards over the course of probably four or five plays with, I think, one time out in their back pocket, maybe two, and they run it twice. And Zimmer explains after the game, well, we were hoping for a first down on the first run, and if we got it, we would go for it.

That makes no sense. It makes no sense to assume or hope for a first down run coming out in a one-minute drill. Isn't it great, though, that at the end of the game, they basically had the same situation and scored? Like they had the same situation at the end of both halves. And when they were absolutely forced to do it, they scored, proving to me that they clearly could have scored. And then he was concerned that in other games they didn't do well enough at the end of the half. And that was the worry.

Fear of failure. And for reference, last year when they played Detroit at home, they had a minute 19. They were at their own 13-yard line. And they scored a touchdown. That's right. Not a field goal. They scored a touchdown that's right not a field goal they scored a touchdown in one minute and four seconds they have no compass when it comes to situational football it's whatever way the wind is blowing whatever happened the previous week too easily influences the decision making and it's frustrating and then at the end too, you need one first down to beat the Lions.

You have Justin Jefferson and Adam Thielen. You need one first down. You've got a second and seven. You can throw it on second down. You can throw it on third down. All you need is one first down. And they ran it three times. It ran through my mind, actually.

This might be a weird thought that the fumble helped the vikings win this game because think about this fumbles the ball they score quickly and give the vikings enough time if they don't and punt the ball away and it's let's say at midfield because they were backed all the way up yeah so let's say 40 net yards and the vikings are backed up to their own 10 or so they get the ball at the 50 and they slowly drive down for the last play and score. And then the game is just over and the Vikings don't have another chance if they go for the two and win. So in a way it ironically helped them get

one last chance. And maybe, I mean, you can't ask anybody to run the clock down there. They ran it once and they did that to start, but I mean, you got to score a touchdown. If you're the lions, you can't be thinking let's, Oh, Hey man, stop at the one. Like, no, you've got, you really have to score that and say, let's stop cousins on 37 seconds left. But, uh, you know, to run it three times there, when you have Justin Jefferson and Adam Thielen, the two most unstoppable or the most unstoppable receiver combination that there is. You don't even run like one of those bootlegs where you could just check it down and get three yards or where, you know, cousins could slide for a five yard loss if something goes completely wrong, right? Like those bootlegs teams love to use them in these situations

because it's an easy completion if you don't have your shot. But just that, you know, I felt like Adam Thielen even sort of expressed some frustration at this. He said, like, we are very confident that if they go to us in big situations, we're going to make a play. And I thought that that was his way of saying, yeah, come on, man, let's get that first down. Let's do this instead of doing the most predictable thing and i know that we love these callbacks to other games and this is what makes it sort of so frustrating for fans is because you've just seen this before over and over remember last year in green bay when they're trying to ice a win and they run delvin three times it's three loss yards and then rogers has a final chance he gets sacked by dj one and the game ends

and they win it but it was the same sort of and they did this against new orleans in the playoff game too it's like they've just they do the same sort of stuff over and over that you wouldn't do if you're being aggressive and trying to go win but then there's another part of me that thinks okay so this is the micro picking apart all the sort of little minuscule things that they do that might have worked with the number one defense that maybe don't work now. But then there's sort of the bigger picture of this where you think like, okay, is the sum of the parts of this football team in terms of talent being added up to what it could be? And that's always a question that sort of runs through my mind. Like is, is the sum of the parts equaling the results? And for a game like this, to me, the answer is absolutely not for their record through this five games. The answer is absolutely not like you have more talent on your football team than two and three with a two point win against the Detroit Lions.

That's that's sort of the broader takeaway for me is you just have with Jefferson and Thielen and at least a capable enough offensive line to put on a performance like they did today. It was not capable last week, but like against the Lions, you could protect well enough. And your quarterback is talented enough and your you could protect well enough and your quarterback is talented enough and your running back is good enough and your defense was good enough, but yet you're two and three with a two point win against the Detroit lions. And I, that's where the focus becomes on the coaching staff is. And I think the front office has made its fair share of mistakes to get here, but at least from the perspective of these five games, the amount of talent is more than what their record is. Yes, we've seen the offense at its best. We've seen the defense at

its best. We've seen special teams take a huge step forward. I know Joseph lost a game, but as a whole, special teams is so much better than last year. So that's not shooting you in the foot anymore. If you're the offense, you can't point to, well, we've got the worst drive start in the NFL. If you're the defense, you can't say, well, the opponent has the best drive start in the NFL. Can't say that anymore. Greg Joseph has been pretty good since that week two miss, but you've never put it all together. So why? Why haven't you put it together? You look at two consecutive games here at home, one of which today, I can't figure out whether they deserve to lose today because Detroit was so much worse. I mean, as bad as the Vikings

were, it's not like Detroit earned this. They were given gift after gift after gift. The Vikings saying, please, please stay in this game. Make us earn it in the final second. But yeah, you're right. You're in a close game that you should not be. And I would argue that you shouldn't have been in a close game last week with the way that Cleveland played offensively. I mean, I think you should have been when you take on bad looking teams and you can lump Cincinnati in here too. Cincinnati looked

atrocious for much of that game as well. When you look bad against other teams that also look bad, that's probably similar to what you are. Like you are what, are what you know this your record compares you to your peers and rarely have the Vikings made bad teams look bad as they should have fans are going back to stadium so you have to be ready with the best Minnesota football gear that's why you have to check out soda stick I saw a ton of soda gear around training camp. I expect to see it in the stadium as well. There are so many cool designs on hats, T-shirts, and hoodies for the fall weather, including the John Randall design that is extremely cool. There's also the straight cash homie Randy Moss homage.

Can't stop the Thielen hats. And a personal favorite, the old video game designs that Tecmo fans will appreciate. Check it all out at SodaStick.com. That is S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K.com. Everything is screen printed here in Minnesota. And I can tell you that the shirts are comfortable and they last because half of my closet is now SodaStick at this point. Again, that's SodaStick.com, Minnesota sports inspired goods. And keep your eye out for

our soda stick giveaways and so when we go and we look at where they rank and stuff this is always a thing that we do like after a week we go all right where are they in points for points against where are they in yards per play expected points added pff grade at this this this this and the other thing you know we're going to come out with after this game is well like 18th i think pff when they do their power rankings we'll see what they say about this game uh but their power rankings i think last week had the vikings at like 20th as a team and it probably will not improve after this and that's how it feels it does not feel like they are jacksonville it does not feel like they are an incompetent franchise or football

team overall it just feels like you're you're not going to be the team like for example buffalo played houston last week beat them 40 to nothing. Like, yeah, that's right. You're going to have tough team, tough games against bad teams sometimes, but like, that's right. That's a team that's really good. And they just came out and said, yeah, you're not going to play with us. Davis mills is your quarterback. Your coach is a joke. Like your franchise is, is, is whack. So goodbye. Don't even like you wasted jet fuel flying up here that's how Detroit should have felt that they wasted their jet fuel flying over to Minnesota and instead they walked away feeling like ah we were so close we almost had them and the same thing goes for Jacksonville

Carolina last year and that's why it feels so similar and this season feels more similar to 2020 than it does I think any other season where yeah some close losses but your flaws are your flaws and they're probably not getting solved and you're not going to flip some switch with your head coach or your offensive coordinator and and that's sort of unfortunate because after three games I was feeling like well maybe maybe they will like maybe they will, like, maybe they will be more aggressive passing the football. And then yet it seemed to me to just sort of go back to where they were. I don't know if you felt this way too, but I thought in Seattle, they seem to be aggressive in throwing the football much more than they were. And it seemed like they were

pushing it to Jefferson and Thielen much more. And then it just kind of drew back to the same old place today and against the Cleveland Browns where they're just lacking in this aggressiveness or, you know, gets Cleveland, the offensive line gets beat today. I did not feel like they got beat badly on the offensive line, that there were plenty of opportunities, but when it all seems to kind of circle back to the same place, then I guess that's where I don't know what to say. It's like, well, what can they do to improve off of this game? Like, I don't know, be someone different, be different than who you are. But at least where we stand now, they're not going to be different than who they are? Yeah, I think through five games, you've seen them play down to the lowest of opponents and you've seen them play up to the best of opponents. Arizona is an undefeated football team, right? So you've seen both ends of the spectrum. You've seen the potential. So I think the potential based on the first five games is you can play with anybody, but you're also vulnerable against anybody.

You're right in the middle. You are not so bad that you can't go into Arizona and almost win that game. And you are not good enough to take anybody lightly. And what that tells me going forward is, is that you're going to have to grind just to beat Carolina. And you're probably going to be in the same boat against Detroit in their place again. Against Chicago, you're going to be fighting for your life. There's not going to be easy games with this team because the defense is up and down. And that makes sense. There's a bunch of new pieces.

The offense is up and down. That makes sense. Kirk Cousins is their quarterback. Clint Kubiak is still figuring out what to do. That's the reality. So are you going to get a game where all the stars align on one given day? Probably. I mean, you've rolled the dice enough, eventually you're going to get snake eyes, but it is not an encouraging outlook going forward.

If this, you know, if assuming the staff lasts up to the bye at 3-3, you're going to have to come out doing something different, something with more stability, more sustainability offensively, I think, because the tease early in the season just shows you what they can be, and the last two weeks have been such a regression that that's awfully alarming. And that's where, you know, these last two weeks have been such a regression that that's awfully alarming. And that's where, you know, these last two games that think about the opportunity that was there to show that they were different. I mean, if you beat Cleveland and you had the chance,

if you beat Cleveland, then we would have come into this game saying, okay, well season back on. I mean, now looking around the NFC there's some very strong teams but there's some vulnerable teams as well I'm looking at San Francisco with Trey Lance in struggling Trey Lance is not ready to play in the NFL probably so you know at least as we're recording this they're down 10 nothing to Arizona so okay all right if you had won you would have said wow they could grind out a victory against a really good football team in the Cleveland Browns and then come here. And it would have mattered so much less how they won today. We would have, I think we would have said if they had beaten the Browns, we would have said,

oh man, well, you know what? Win's a win because then you would have been looking at what? With three and two with a chance to go four and two, and then go into the toughest part of your schedule, which you laid this out from the minute the schedule came out. You said you have to go four and two to start if you want to be a really good team. If you want to win 11 games, you probably have to go four and two to start.

Well, that's not going to happen. They can get to three and three. Most teams that start three and three finish eight and eight, which is sort of how this feels. It feels like we're going to do this dance every week where, like you said, they'll mix in a game against a tough team where they really win. And we go like, Oh wow. Okay. Good win. And then they'll mix in another game against a team. That's not so great. And it'll be a poor loss and we'll go, Oh darn poor loss. Like, and there's just sort of this bouncing back and forth. And that's where it all circles back to the number of tweets that

I got saying, oh, I was hoping something might be different. And that's, and that's what I walk away from. So they go to Carolina, they're going to play a Carolina that has a quarterback who I still think is bad in Sam Darnold. I wasn't blown away by a couple of wins against what, like the Jets and Texans or something that they beat. Who cares? They have a good defense, which means that the Vikings will probably have some problems thrown in on offense. We'll probably get a game like this that is fairly low scoring and back and forth. And then we go to the bye and we all think about it for a while. And then the season will be determined after. But if you're taking a confidence meter,

like how confident are you in the head coach leading this team to being anything except for what they've always been? How confident are you in the offense exploding to be, and think about this, every team who's made the Super Bowl since 2015, because there was that bad broncos team everyone else is 2016 and on top five in scoring we getting there we getting there with

this are we getting right and i made the promise last year to purple insider listeners that we only talk about the super bowl and how and like that's the goal the goal is not the seven seed and then lose the goal is not darn we came and then lose. The goal is not darn. We came up one game short. And so when we start to look at this, if it isn't vastly different soon, um, then, then what, then we're going to be having that same conversation. Oh, just get in and see what happens. Okay. Well, Tom Brady put up like 400 yards again today. So I don't, I don't really buy, just get in and see what happens so i guess that that's where this is so uninspiring it's like if you if you beat them 56 to 10 then at least we can go all right on to carolina and let's see if there's a season here this doesn't feel

like let's see if there's a season here right i mean we were we were saying too after the first three games if you double down on offense throw deep more, that might be your ticket because the defense is not playing well at all. And now the roles have kind of flipped. But I think there's a reason that Mike Zimmer will have a relatively long leash here and we'll see what happens with, you know, with the Carolina game, how they lose or if they win or what happens. But if you make a mid-season move, what then? I mean, you've got all these veterans, all these pending free agents. It's not like Kellen Mond is necessarily waiting in the wings, ready to go. Now, maybe if the season ends prematurely in December, you give him some time. But it's not like you have the next Kevin Stefanski waiting to sort of instill his philosophy on this team.

So if you do make that move, I think you're still kind of sitting on your hands waiting for the offseason to see what comes next. It's not like the alternative in season is going to be all that exciting. So, I mean, if you're a Vikings fan, I think you kind of just cheer for it to change. I don't think at this point, I think you just want to ride out this season. You want to hope it gets better. It probably, you know, odds are it won't based on what we've seen. But it's hard to have a lot of optimism about anything changing drastically with a move, without a move. Like all that does is expedite

our chance to like search for coaches and candidates, but I'm not sure that the second half of the season is all that more intriguing. If you get Mond in there, it increases the intrigue a little bit. Um, but this is, this roster is equipped to win this year. They've got a bunch of mercenaries brought in. Um, and there's not a lot of young pieces that you're like, okay, his development, very important for next year, his development, very important. I'm intrigued about that. There's just not a lot of that on this team. You know, I think, let's say they lose to Carolina next week. I think they'll win. I just don't have a lot of respect for Matt Rule or Carolina, but let's say they lose and they go to two and four.

The reason to make a change isn't necessarily that you think that Andre Patterson interim coach changes anything, or if it's Clint Kubiak, maybe Clint Kubiak would, I don't know. I would go with Kubiak just to see, just to see if like, there's something there just to see if he's going to change the philosophy. And maybe that would be a thing that they would tell him is all right. Second half of the season. If you throw less than 40 times, you're fired too. Um, but if Jefferson, like last year we had, and today someone would have been put in jail. I said, if Jefferson ends up with fewer than 10 targets, someone goes to prison. And today someone has to go to prison.

Like you just can't do that. It's, you just can't have the freaking best player in the NFL, not getting 10 targets at least anyway. Um, but more than anything, if they lose against Carolina, you dropped to two and four, your playoff chances go to nothing. To me, it would just be a sign that it's not enough. It's like from, from the top, just look, I might think you're a pretty good coach. I might think you're a pretty good quarterback, good staff. Might think you have a good front office. I'm not so sure they do, but you might think that, but it's not good enough. Winning by two over Detroit in almost hilarious fashion,

losing to a Carolina team that's not good, going up against some of the best teams in the league coming out of it and having really no shot at making the playoffs at that point. It's just not good enough. And then I think we would spend the rest of the season trying to figure out like, what's this going to be? What's this going to be going forward? How do they play under a different coach? We've never seen it. You and I, our entire careers covering the Vikings have always been this. So at least from that, it would be very intriguing, I think. And I'm not trying to advocate necessarily for a firing. Here's what I'm saying.

I totally get it. I totally get it. No doubt. The triple digits of texts, DMs, emails, tweets of people who wanted to see that kick go wide left. I get it. I get exactly where you're at with this team. And I think that would be the only reason. Not because you think that someone else is going to turn it around.

Yeah. Yeah. The fact, like, I've laid out the case for why maybe you give them a long leash. You've laid out the case for why you don't. And I think there's validity to both. And the fact that it's even a discussion tells you that something's not going right. Yep. If it's a coin flip decision, then clearly you've made a bet that you are now, you know,

uncomfortable in and you want something to change. And I think that's a great way to put it is you made the bet. Like you did this. You only beat Detroit by two on a 54 yard field goal. Like that, that's something that you did. You lost those other games when you had plenty of chances to win them. Like you set up this roster this way. You set up this offense this way.

You paid the quarterback what you paid him and on and on and on. Two things real quick. What did you think of Christian Derrissaw playing football today? Hard to focus on him every play. It was only three drives, but they seem to have, number one, not a major liability from what I saw. They seem to have success running to his side. I want to get another look at that 48-yarder by Madison because I know that was to the left side as well. Held up in pass protection from what I could see, better than Rashad Hill did.

This is the swan song for Rashad Hill. I mean, the fact that Derisod didn't fall on his face tells you that he will get as much, if not more, work next week. Mike Zimmer is still saying it's sort of a slow play because of the small number of practices he's had. But it's only going to increase from here. Teams don't just randomly put a guy in for three series and then pull him back. Nope.

Unless he's really bad. And he wasn't that. So I bet he plays more against Carolina and he might be the starter after the buy. Seems like this was the plan all along. And Rashad Hill's play thus far has not been requisite to keep the job. So I think that DeRusso's presence can only help things. Yeah, I agree. When I saw Rashad Hill get thrown by Trey Flowers, like picked up and thrown, I thought, ew, that's not Miles Garrett.

Like that's a good player, but that's not Miles Garrett. Like this is over. And so if they start Derrissaw next week, that's fine. If they play him another 20 plays next week and then start him after the bye, that's fine. Either way, Christian Derrissaw is the left tackle from here on out. It can't be different than that. It has to be he's the left tackle for no other reason to find out just what he has

because he's going to be a huge part of this going forward. The other thing is Everson Griffin is the starter. We were on that. We wrote about it. We called both these moves. Yep. And Dantzler's next. Yep.

Dantzler's definitely next. Breland got roasted on one play but there wasn't enough good Jared Goff to tell how Breland played today I don't think um and then final thing is just good for you Greg Joseph I mean we kind of looked at Greg Joseph and thought why aren't they giving the guy some competition and then he misses the kick against Arizona we go ah yeah well there you have it uh but the guy has made every 50 plus and has done some competition and then he misses the kick against Arizona. We go, ah, yeah, well, there you have it. Uh, but the guy has made every 50 plus and has done a good job. And so I guess now with that, when they say those things even out, well, there you go. They even out, he made a huge

one in Cincinnati and he made a huge one here. So Greg Joseph is actually plus for saving your tail in football games. games, not minus. So you can't really play that game either with, oh, we missed the field goal. Well, right. If he misses one of two or two 50 yarders, where are you at right now? So if he makes the one in Arizona, but misses the 50 yarders, you're actually worse. So, you know, that is truly the definition, but, but good for him. I mean, just like you want to see a kicker, somebody, anybody succeed in Minnesota.

And he did today. So good for you. Yeah, I think I saw him smile for the first time after the game. That was pretty crazy. He's Blair – 2012 Blair Walshing where he just makes everything 50 and beyond. Five of five. And, you know, the one he left short from 49, that's a little weird. I mean, some bizarre things still happen when he's out there.

But, yeah, mostly good for Greg Joseph. Worth bringing up that Delvin Cook straight up didn't play today. Not surprised. He plays last week, then it gets worse, doesn't play here. I mean, this seems like what we're Then it gets worse. Doesn't play here. I mean, this seems like what we're in for this season. Don't play him next week either. Don't.

It doesn't seem necessary. I mean, not when he's not a hundred percent, Madison is just flat out better than him. Correct. I mean, Madison's just as good, if not better in the past game.

Um, his vision is worse, but he, you know, he's good for those hard yards. Probably a little, that's weird to say on a day when he turned the ball over, I was going to say a little less turnover prone, but today's a bad day to make that claim. I just don't think the drop off is significant enough to get him healthy, give him the buy. And I guess we'll save it for another day to talk about that contract again uh for delvin cook but um so i guess let me just put this bow on it that is it possible

that they win tomorrow go to three and three and then this thing is one heck of a roller coaster ride to the playoffs the rest of the way yeah um but when you play week after week after week on what Kirk Cousins called the razor's edge, this is what you get. Sometimes it goes your way and sometimes it does not because you're not really capable outside of one game against Seattle of running away from anyone because you don't play that way. And so I think that even if they beat Carolina and they go to three and three, there's a really long way to go. But at least if they do that, then we can have the discussion about what it takes to beat Dallas. And we can have the discussion about what it takes to win the games after that Baltimore, San Francisco, Green Bay, and so forth. So if everybody wants to stay alive, that's's, what's necessary.

I would really enjoy getting to preview the Lamar Jackson game. Oh yeah. That means something. So in that sense, you know, pull it out, like get, get to that point where you can make awesome football games, meaningful and not a drudgery. Right. I would love to talk about Trey Lance going into that San Francisco game. That would be fun.

How are they going to stop Trey Lance? How are they going to stop Justin Herbert? Those would be fun talkers to have. So prove it to your fans that you can get there in the meat of your schedule. This was supposed to be the preamble to a thrilling November. Give your fans the chance. If this team is worth its metal, they will give them the opportunity to get excited even for a second after the bye. All right. So much coming up this

week. Tuesday morning, left guard with Jeremiah Searles. Monday morning, Murph. Supposed to have Morton Anderson on the show this week. Wow. Yeah. One of the all-time great kickers is booked for the show. So hopefully that works out. So lots coming up. And, hey, it's still a season for now. So there's lots to discuss. And we will be out there at TCO Performance Center as always. And make sure you check out our written work, purpleinsider.subzack.com. We also have a YouTube channel where we do videos post-game.

We do videos from out of TCO Performance Center. So check out Purple Insider YouTube channel as well. And we will be here. We will be here for you the entire way. We'll catch you later.