Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - The Will Ragatz Show: NBC Sports Edge analyst Thor Nystrom talks Vikings draft strategy

Episode Date: May 5, 2022

Sports Illustrated Vikings reporter Will Ragatz debuts his first show on Purple Insider. He talks with Thor Nystrom of NBC Sports Edge about whether the Vikings got good value in the NFL Draft out of their picks, how Lewis Cine compares to Kyle Hamilton, getting Andrew Booth Jr. as a better deal than one of the top cornerbacks in the draft and why the Vikings' fifth-round pick was a good "dice roll" Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

🎵 All right, welcome to the first episode of what we are currently calling the Will Raggett Show on Purple Insider. If you missed the announcement last week with me and Matthew Collar, I'm going to be hosting a weekly episode of the podcast going forward. And we'll see if the name changes in the future. But right now we're going with the Will Raggett Show. Pretty simple. And honored and excited to be joined by Thor Nystrom for my first episode. He covers the college football and the NFL draft for NBC Sports Edge and just wrapped up a long draft cycle. Thor, congrats on getting through it. How's it going, man?

Hey, thanks. It's going well. It's good to be with you on your first episode. I guess my name suggestion has hit the trash can or whatever. My idea was Will Reg on Kirk and other Vikings musings, but, you know, maybe they're still considering it. Yeah, I think that one's a little lengthy, maybe. There were a lot of good suggestions on Twitter. It's a tough thing. I was kind of being a perfectionist about it, but we'll, we'll see what we end up going with, but yeah,

I wanted to chat with you just about the Vikings draft. It was a really interesting few days for Kwesi Doful Mensah, Kevin O'Connell, this, this new regime. And I think we have to start with just the big trade that they made on opening night. We were sitting there, I was sitting there in the media room, getting ready for them to pick at 12. and I knew there was a possibility of a trade back, but then to move back 20 spots and to do so with a divisional opponent,

what was your, your overall impressions of that kind of being the first big move of the Adolfo Mense era? Yeah. Initially in the moment I was, I was shocked and the, the sticker price I think is what did it for me wasn't surprised that they moved down um if it was me I would have thought a little bit harder about Kyle Hamilton I'm sure they had a lot of conversations about that in the room but once they had made the decision I was fine with them trading down just because you bring

back Kirk Cousins you're sort of locking yourself into that cap hit. You have all these these roster needs still. How are you going to plug them without cap room? That getting more draft equity was one way to go about that, especially in this class where we knew wasn't as strong up top. But in the middle rounds, that was sort of considered the power alley of it. So the prerogative of it or the strategy of it, that was not a surprise. But I thought that they would get a little bit more for dropping down 20 spots and, you know, in comparison, especially to some of the other trade that we were seeing the value that some other teams were getting. And then the traditional trade charts, you know, like the Jimmy Johnson and the Rich Hill, they both suggested

that maybe the 32 and the 34 for 12 would have been fair without having to drop down 20 spots in the, you know, in the other round, whatever. But, you know, that being said, love the pick when they took Louis scene, love that pick. And then speaking to the thing about the trade charts, they remain static year after year. The Jimmy Johnson one is still used by front offices. It's kind of like the Kelly blue book, you know, for, for both teams to sort of get, you know, general same side ballpark about what the value of these things could be it doesn't

bake in the context of the specific class that you're drafting and know right and so the fact that this class maybe wasn't as as strong at the top you didn't see the depreciate you wouldn't have seen the depreciation of that in a static trade chart or the fact that maybe the middle round picks the day two picks would be more valuable and you saw that in a static trade chart or the fact that maybe the middle round picks, the day two picks would be more valuable. And you saw that in, for instance, the trade with the Packers, that trade recouped a whole bunch more value than you would have seen on those charts. So I think all the trades, you know, after you sort of bake them all in, I think they sort of all offset. Yeah. And that was kind of my general takeaway from that Lions trade as well, is that I think judging by Adolfo Mence's comments, they came in with a plan that they wanted to move down and they wanted to turn that asset that they have.

And you don't draft 12th very often. The Vikings hadn't drafted that high since 2015. They wanted to take that valuable asset and turn it into more assets. And I think that was a good approach. And you can understand why they would do that because this roster is not one piece, one non-quarterback piece away from being a Super Bowl team. I mean, they're eight and nine, seven and nine the last couple of years. But as you said, and as I think the frustration from a lot of fans is looking at past trades, looking at trades that even happened over the same draft, could they not have gotten more? Could they not have gotten maybe a 2023 first from the Lions

or maybe not had to give up the 46th pick and given up 77 instead, something like that. And ultimately, I think Adolfo Mensah talked about, like, you have this happiness with sitting at 12 and taking a pick, or do you have more happiness by trading back and taking multiple players and they decided to go that route we don't know if they could have gotten more if other offers were on the table things like that but yeah you mentioned you liked the pick with scene you also mentioned that they could have stayed at 12 and taken the guy who's

the consensus top safety on basically everyone's board in Kyle Hamilton. So that was interesting to me that if you were going to take a safety, why not take Hamilton? How do you kind of compare those two players when you were evaluating and watching them? Yeah, well, like I said, I love seeing it's just Hamilton, you know, with him, you put him up in the echelon of some of the better safety prospects prospects he's seen of the last 20 years that that's what it was for me I mean for me I mean since I've been doing for me it's only been like seven years since I've been doing this but he's at the at or near the very top of that list you know there's not safeties that are you know generally taking top

10 or whatever he ends up falling out of that but But the two guys that we saw in the top five or six taken over the last 20 years, I would put him up with those guys in terms of prospects. Louis seen though, he's a better prospect on the slot that they got him in. You know, they couldn't have figured that in the moment. And so I think that was a pretty nice, you know, way of staying at the same position to sort of recoup some of that value. I think the Ravens were celebrating the fact that they got Kyle Hamilton, but they're different players, right? Like, you know, Hamilton is, he's the deep safety who has

sort of the frame of a linebacker, you know, and you can put them in the box, like just play them in the box, whatever. Seen is versatile in his own way, he he's a really interesting guy in that he he does all the prototypical free safety stuff but his game is is imbued with this like throwback strong safety hit man Ronnie Lott night train lane like I'm coming for you over the middle and you're going to hear my footsteps kind of a thing so he's really interesting both the coverage he's reliable in coverage he's a really reliable tackler but he also has that hitman thing that's just embedded into his game um very instinctual player so i i like the fact that they got him there and you know again it's you sort of

lament not getting hamilton but then when it becomes hamilton for scene xxx you're adding like the four other guys that they got because of the trade downs that the equation becomes a little bit different. Yeah, I think that's just going to be the thing that people come back to is whatever the process was in the moment. People are going to have the hindsight analysis if Kyle Hamilton becomes a stud. I mean, there were a lot when you trade back 20 spots, you're passing up on a lot of blue chip, really highly graded players. Like they could have taken Jordan Davis. They could have taken Trent McDuffie. I think that might've been a little high for him, but they needed a corner.

Kair Elam also went off the board and then the lions trade up and they take Jamison Williams, who some Vikings fans were kind of coming around to the idea of, of taking Williams and pairing him with Justin Jefferson, having your long-term Adam Thielen replacement. Kyle, what do you think about the Lions move to go up and get Williams? And is that something that the Vikings may end up kind of regretting as they have to face him twice a year for a long time? I think it could be just, you know, just by natural comparison or whatever,

both the Williams thing and then, of course, the Packers with with Watson, the Vikings sort of help facilitate both those rivals getting the receiver that they wanted. But then again, that especially the first two picks that the Vikings took, I'm not going to argue with either of those, nor the moves that led to them getting them. Because for me, seeing, yes, there's a drop-off from him to Hamilton, but I had seen as the number two safety, I had him, you know, ranked on my board, you know, in the top 25, top 26, something like that. And we've seen, for instance, the Dallas Cowboys, Jerry Jones accidentally leaked their draft board or whatever. We saw that Louis Seen was a top 15 player on their board, and he – I mean, that's not the only one.

There was NFL teams that really liked Louis seen. It's just, you know, safety is a bit of a devalued position and there wasn't as many teams in that alleyway that needed safety. So one thing you could credit Adolfo Mensah for perhaps is yes, we're, we are sacrificing Kyle Hamilton with this transaction. You know, they may have taken Hamilton if they had stayed put there. And instead, we're going to get a guy who maybe isn't quite as dynamic, but is pretty dang good.

You know, it's absolutely considered a first round safety, not only on most analyst board, but most NFL boards as well. Yeah, the more I've kind of read about Seen, and we got to talk to him a couple of times since he was drafted and watch some of his highlights and stuff. It seems like he has a lot of upside with kind of the mental side that he brings and then just the physical attributes to, to diagnose things and just accelerate and hit, hit people really is the strongest part of his game.

But I think he also has a lot of upside and coverage. If he can continue to kind of develop the ball skills. I think there were a few dropped interceptions on his tape. He only had a couple, I believe, in three years at Georgia. But talk about a great situation for him coming in, getting to play alongside Harrison Smith, learn from him and then eventually maybe be the long term successor for Smith. But the next pick that the Vikings had, I think I just wrote about this on SI.com. And I think Andrew Booth Jr. might have a higher ceiling even than Lewis seen. He plays that premium position, cornerback versus safety, which factors into it. But he was telling us about how he hasn't played fully healthy since high school. I mean, he played through a hernia issue.

He had a couple other issues while he was at Clemson. And if he can kind of stay healthy and have that hernia issue fixed, which he just had a second surgery on, and be at 100%, I mean, you're talking about a guy who had a ton of production at Clemson while maybe being 70%, 80% most of the time. So that, to me, there's a risk there with the injuries, but the ceiling with, with boost physical traits and his ball skills and just everything that goes into playing the position. If you can clean up some technique stuff,

to me, it seems like he has a very, very high ceiling at cornerback. Would you agree with that assessment? I would. Yeah. You know, we, we talk most of the pre-draft process in, you know, Vikings, Twitter and stuff like that about a 2019 stud five-star recruit at cornerback who struggled with injuries throughout his career, thinking that maybe the Vikings could get them on a sticker price discount. It's just, we were talking about the wrong guy.

Stingley ends up going three, which I found to be absurd, but you know, that's, that was the Texans prerogative. I think this was a way better scenario for the Vikings because instead of paying a ridiculous Stingley ends up going three, which I found to be absurd, but you know, that's, that was the Texans prerogative. I think this was a way better scenario for the Vikings because instead of paying a ridiculous premium for a guy that hasn't, you know, you haven't seen the good football for a couple of years, you're, you're taking the swing on upside with Booth at a much more acceptable price point, much more acceptable price point. Stingley, by the way, he would have gone way lower than that.

Had he not been able to come back from his injury, do the pre-draft testing. You know what I mean? Like when he went to that pro day, that's when he became top, he locked himself into the top 10. And then we saw that this team got all the way up to top three. Andrew Booth didn't get to do that because of his strength quad. But if he had put in the full athletic testing, I can guarantee you, he would have gone in round one because the kids, the kids have started athlete. He's, he's built really well. He's got long arms and the athleticism absolutely would have translated to the pre-draft testing that the the ceiling point that you made it's very well taken you know you'll see him erase people on tape just because of the physical skills he also understands route running real well you

know he understands what the receivers are trying to do um but right now he is one of the younger players in this class and people need to realize that he's, he's not one of these guys that's coming out after five years after playing a billion snaps. He didn't even play a thousand snaps in college. He was only, you know, on campus for three years there at Clemson. First year, didn't play much, was part of the rotation as a sophomore, became the full-time starter as a junior. But, you know, he doesn't have the complete experience again, that some of these guys do. And you see some of the inconsistencies. He's a gambler that that's, that's one part of his game that I don't know if you're ever going to take it out. And he has the athleticism to be able to do it and to be able to not only flip the field, but take the ball back

the other way also as the ball skills for it. But when he gambles wrong, he can get torched by almost anybody. one of the games you could refer back to from this past season was against NC State where he was getting cooked by Emeka Mezzi who was a undrafted free agent guy not very athletic but he fooled him a couple times and then a couple of their ancillary receivers as well you could point at those games or you could point at the opposite ones where he's just shutting people down he has the the physical skill set to do whatever you want it's just you're gonna have to teach him some of opposite ones where he's just shutting people down. He has the physical skill set to do whatever you want. It's just you're going to have to teach him some of these things.

But he's so young on the curve and he comes with a ballyhoo pedigree. He comes with all the requisite NFL athleticism. There's no reason to believe he can't get there with coaching. I really like the pick with where they got him. It takes away a lot of the risk once you're taking a kid with those first round tools in the middle of the second round. Yeah. And talk about a guy who I think just talent wise could have been a top 20 pick. Like you said, if he had done the athletic testing, you get him at 42. It's a good point about kind of his risk reward nature. And I

wonder how much the Vikings will try to coach that out of him at all, or if they'll kind of his risk reward nature and I wonder how much the Vikings will try to coach that out of him at all or if they'll kind of just live with that I mean Trayvon Diggs for the Cowboys is like he's an example of somebody who's had a huge impact as a guy who's going to make a bunch of players on the ball but he's also going to give up a bunch of big plays and I think Marcus Peters is kind of another example of that so I wonder if wonder if the Vikings are kind of just going to let him do his thing and live with the big plays because you know he's going to get you some turnovers or if they're going to maybe try to rein that in a little bit and coach him up on some technique things and try to avoid some of the big plays.

Either way, I think a really, really interesting pick and a great value at 42. Now, I was reading your draft, your quick snap draft grades for the Vikings, and you gave them a C plus. And I think a big reason you cited was the two picks that they made at 59 and 66 with LSU guard Ed Ingram and then Oklahoma linebacker, Brian Asamoah. Those to me, in the moment, I was also a little surprised by just going by kind of where analysts had them ranked. You look at the consensus board that Arif put together. Ed Ingram has some off the field stuff in the past. I think there were maybe other guards on the board that were rated higher. Brian Asamoah, a little undersized. There's also just kind of the non-premium position aspects of taking a guard and a linebacker there. And it's kind of funny that the Vikings did the same thing they did a year ago when they took Wyatt Davis and Chaz Surratt, a guard and a linebacker in that same range but um what what did you what were your reaction to those two picks and um why did

you why did that how did that factor into basically your your overall assessment of the vikings draft yeah those were were definitely two of my least favorite picks from this class they they were a little bit head scratching for me i i understood was what they were doing taking the interior guy um that was something i advocated for all process I you know I think the Vikings needed at least one immediate starter inside and maybe even two if you want to if you want to be a contender this year like I don't know if that's completely the direction but it seems like that's what they're doing now going back with Kirk and trying to draft some some play now type guys so with Ingram that's what surprised me is you're taking a guy who does not have,

in my opinion, perennial all pro type ability. You're reaching up for him when he has this off field thing and some, you know, the off field thing in his path. Now, to be fair, the charges were dropped, you know, and stuff like that. So that you got to say that, of course, he deserves another, another chance. It was just surprising for me where they ended up taking him on my board. He was one or three. You know, he reminds me sort of a Jonah, Jonah Jackson, a kid that came out of Ohio State a couple of years ago where he's he's built sort of like, you know, a lunchbox. He sort of sawed off and he sort of moves and blocks in an unorthodox way. But he's always gotten it done at the highest level. You know, he was playing right away at LSU outside of the year that he got suspended and was 2018 or 2019 or whatever, missed the 2018 season. But, you know, outside of that, he played every year and he played pretty

well and he put in a 74th percentile athletic composite. I do think he's got a decent shot to start day one, but again, I didn't see in his profile, I didn't see that, see that that crazy crazy upside and especially when you can get a kid like in this class you could have gotten a kid like Darian Kennard at round five that that I think Darian Kennard is a better player and a better prospect than that Ingram didn't have the similar off-field stuff that I would have preferred to go a direction like that yeah even with kind of the question marks on just Ingram as a prospect, I think it made sense for them to address the interior of the offensive line. You've got, it's just been an issue for a long time, and it's something that I think they need to just kind of fix once and for all. Hopefully, you've got Ezra Cleveland, who looks like he's going to be set at left guard for a while.

And they brought in a bunch of kind of minor names on that interior. This off season, you got Chris Reed from the Colts. They got Jesse Davis, who has been a tackle and a guard for the dolphins. So there's some veterans there. Wyatt Davis, who I also, who I mentioned who kind of was, was just a no show his rookie year. I don't know how much Mike Zimmer and his kind of disdain for rookies played into that. But then you've got Garrett Bradbury, who they didn't pick up the fifth year option on.

So it made sense to add an interior offensive lineman. I just wonder if that was the right guy to take and kind of if it was good value there. Well, and just one more point on that, Will, like you saw Questy moving up and down the board and, you know, you liked that he was comfortable in his first, you know, his first draft, making the transaction, stuff like that. We saw the receiver run in, you know, in round one, where teams had to get up there if they wanted to do that. The Lions were one of the teams that were able to seize the moment. With the interior alignment, I wonder if the Vikings were actually sitting on one of these other kids that went right before him. Cam Juergen seems like he would have been a really good fit,

you know, as a potential guy to whether he's pushing Bradbury. Certainly he would have been considered the guy 2023. Maybe he could play some guard too, because he didn't have the arm length limitations that for instance, Tyler Linderbaum did. He went right above them. Another guy that did was, he played tackle at Central Michigan but he's probably going to be a guard at the next level Luke Gadecki went two picks above them I wonder if the Vikings were sitting on one of those guys and just sort of deferred to Ingram because they got popped right before him I'm not sure yeah it's a fair point we'll see what happens there I think think Ingram, um, like just,

just off of the experience he has, um, and what we've seen on his tape has a chance to come in and start at right guard right away. Uh, he'll have to beat out a number of guys read and both Davis's to do so. But I think with his kind of what we've seen from him as a run blocker and, uh, it seems like he has a little more upside in pass protection than some of these, like the,

kind of the joke that over the last few years in this wide zone Vikings offenses, they take these former tight ends who are great run blockers, but can't really, can't really anchor against anybody. I think Ingram has a little bit more in that area just with his, his mass and his length, but we'll see at Asamoah. The next pick is one that i initially was surprised by mainly because there was a guy named nicobe dean still on the board and and dean ended up falling to 83 i don't know i mean i'm sure medicals uh played a huge role in that but um

asamoah a little bit undersized really speedy kind of sideline to sideline linebacker. It just it seemed to me like kind of an uninspiring pick. But as I've as I've read about him and learned a little more about him, I think I understand where they were coming from. What were your thoughts on on Brian Asamoah? Yeah, I the whole thing is, you know, you know, I wrote this in my thing. I was fine with them taking the undersized linebacker. It's just, I would have been curious to know why not N'Kobe Dean, especially when he went 15 picks later that the NFL obviously had some medical

questions about N'Kobe Dean. Was he off the Vikings board? Was he just pulled way down because of it? Did they know something about that? Are they concerned about something about that that we don't know so it's hard for me to completely judge the apples to apples decision that they made because I I'm not privy to all the information or how that they read that information but it's still a bit confusing for me just you know again the sticker price when you're looking at it and it's like Dean's still on the board he's going to be on we find out that he's going to be on the board for another half of a round and you end up taking a different undersized

linebacker that both those guys are sideline to sideline run stoppers you know they clean up messes both inside the tackles and outside of them you like that a lot um the other thing that that you like about asking you know he's an athletic kid he's a zippy kid he gets around the field really quick triggers quick the lateral agility is there so we can get down the line really quick um we've seen some stuff with him rushing the passer that it seems like he's got some promise there um the the aspect of his game that that is surprising to me that it's not better yet is the coverage thing and i don't know if he's ever going to be a plus uh you know plus and coverage. He certainly has the athleticism for it. Just doesn't seem to have the instincts for it yet.

I comped him in our, you know, we write like the pre-draft blurbs for like, well, it's called NBC Sports Edge where I work now, but we write like the, you know, write them up beforehand. And I called him the Kirkland brand Patrick Queen because it's the same thing where it's the undersized dude who's super athletic, that's really good against the run. But in college, he struggled in coverage and so I just don't know if they're going to have to hide him you know in coverage going forward uh one you know one thing you knock him for a little bit is he's an undersized athleticism based linebacker that struggles in coverage but again I'm not concerned about him in the run game at all and that kid

plays really hard you know he's got a motor that goes for days yeah and taking him in the run game at all. And that kid plays really hard. You know, he's got a motor that goes for days. Yeah. And taking him in the third round. I mean, you're not, it's not like you're taking him in the mid early second or something like that. I think, I mean, I've talked about it before, but the Vikings have a lot of veterans that I think can be good mentors and just kind of some of the specific position, position matches. Like I think Eric Kendricks is a great guy for Brian Asimov to come in and try to learn a lot from Kendricks wasn't the biggest dude coming out of UCLA and he has developed into one of the best coverage linebackers in the entire NFL that's going to be a really interesting mix there at linebacker in the new in Ed Donatell's new defense

they brought in Jordan Hicks you've got Surratt from last year who I've kind of written off completely even though he was a third round pick. I don't know. Maybe we'll see more from him this year. They still have Troy Dye, who they took in the fourth in 2020. Blake Lynch is the former undrafted guy who's played the most out of any of those younger names that I just listed. So it's going to be interesting to see how that linebacker room shapes out. And then I guess I'm just going pick by pick here but um a pick that stood out to me in a good way um was in the fourth round they take a caleb evans from missouri the cornerback who just all you really need to know at a very surface level is that he's like six to

200 and runs like a four four five and and. And that alone, I think to me that that gives him a chance to develop into a good player because those kinds of cornerbacks just don't come around all that often. And he's not going to be asked to play right away with, with Patrick Peterson there and Cameron Dantzler and now and Andrew Booth as well. But you, you get him with the coaches and on the field and clear up some of the technique stuff and just kind of continue to develop him. To me, it seems like he has a chance just based on the,

based on the pure physical traits to be pretty good. So what, what were your thoughts on that pick? Yeah. I love the dice roll for sure. Yeah. I mean, like, like you mentioned, he's, he's got the frame, you know, he's, he's got the height, he's got, he's built well, he has the he's got the frame, you know, he's, he's got the height he's got, he's built. Well, he has the length, the arm length is there. And then he has the athletic profile too. You know, he tested really well as well.

We know that he can play the boundary corner and impress man coverage. So I, you know, I think if you're looking for a developmental guy there, I think that was great. And obviously that was something that the Vikings prioritize was, was infusing that secondary. We got to infuse that with talent what's interesting to me is you know how are the Vikings looking at these guys now heading into next season with the cornerback thing because you know Dantzler and Peterson you would think project as boundary corners Booth has only ever played boundary corner at Clemson and then Evans certainly is a boundary guy so it's going to be interesting to see how they figure out who is going to be playing in the slot and how they sort

of delineate and divvy out those snaps. But yeah, in the fourth round, I like the value they got them at. Yeah. And they brought in a couple of guys, a couple of lower tier free agents, Chandon Sullivan from the Packers and Nate Harrison from the Broncos as well, who I think I've at least pegged on the depth chart to be the guys who are going to compete at the slot. But ultimately, I mean, I think they're going to they're going to get their best three and maybe a rotation with four on the field. So we'll see if somebody kicks inside. It's not going to be Patrick Peterson, obviously, but we'll see how that kind of all plays out. Not as many. Well, the Vikings still ended up with a decent number of picks in those late rounds. Rick Spielman kind of became famous for having tons

of six and seventh round picks. They ended up with five there in rounds five through seven. Asezia Tomiwo, the edge kind of DL edge five tech from Minnesota, Ty Chandler, the UNC running back, they get Vidarian low Illinois offensive tackle, Jalen Naylor, the receiver from Michigan. And then the end with Nick Muse, a tight end from South Carolina. Is there one name in that group that stands out to you as a guy who has a chance to make an impact?

My, my guys there would probably be I like the kid from Minnesota. I like taking a dice roll on guys that are projectable like that. He seems like he's a pretty good fit for a 3-4 defensive end. That's what they were looking for there. I think you can get some development there out of that frame and everything. Just got to get that kid in the weight room, my opinion. I didn't like the Ty Chandler pick as much. In some ways, because it's superfluous with Keenan Wangu, the same stuff.

Like Chandler, he had all sorts of opportunities to run away with jobs and to become the star of his collegiate offenses. And it never quite happened for him, you know, both at Tennessee early on and then at UNC where everything was wide open for him. The UNC thing, I thought he was going to play better than he did last year because he's more of a straight line speed type guy where playing in the spread offense against more thinner boxes and then the ACC, the defenses were down last year. I expect them to do a little bit better. He does have some receiving skill and then he has the straight line speed thing. Those are the two things that he's got going for him. I don't know how much I trust him between the tackles, unless, again, you have thinned out boxes and stuff like that, and the defense is expecting a pass.

But, yeah, I mean, you know, he certainly has the speed. I would have taken some different running backs there. I like Valdarian Lowe there. You know, he's a big kid who has light feet. He has very long arms. When you're at the 184th pick, all the tackle guys who are sure things have gone above you. I like the value of that pick. Same thing with Naylor. I completely got what they were going for there. Naylor is he's still raw, but he has the physical tools that you would like to work with.

You know, down the depth chart, see what you got. Bring him in over the summer. See what you got. He tested in the 80th percentile, liked that one. And then the Nick Muse one, he was the only guy they picked that wasn't on my 500 board, but he just barely missed it. And I still get what they're doing there as a guy that tested really well. And we knew going back to South Carolina that he was an athletic kid, which is why it was surprising he didn't get the invite to the combine. Sometimes with these guys who play in the SEC and they test really well, you're surprised that they don't get one. He didn't get one, so I wasn't expecting him to get drafted because of that, but he ends up getting drafted. I think that's just bringing in a guy that has the physical tool set and you see if

you can develop him into something more. Certainly, Nick Muse in college did not have the best circumstances around him to excel. You know, South Carolina, their offensive lines have been bad these last couple years. They haven't had much for quarterback play. Last year they were playing a grad transfer that thought he was going there because he was retiring from the sport to be one of their GAs, Zeb Nolan, and he took over as quarterback. So, like, they haven't had the best situations there as far as that goes.

So maybe you get him in here and maybe he turns into something better you know he's 6'5 258 and he tested in the 88th percentile so i i don't mind that dice roll at all but you know there might have been a couple tight ends i would have taken above him but as far as the the tool set he's he's about as good as you could hope for down there. Yeah. And it was, it was kind of interesting to me that they didn't take a pass catcher until as late as they did with Naylor and Muse, just some of the potential for adding another receiver. Like, I mean, we mentioned there was talk that even as early as the first round, that could have been an option. I don't, I don't know how,

how much they ever really considered that. But to, to not take one until the sixth round with Naylor was interesting. Although I do think I've seen a lot of them in the big 10. I think he has some upside. And then Nick Muse, the tight end. I mean, he'll compete with, with guys like Zach Davidson who they drafted last year in the fifth round, Ben Ellison behind her Smith jr. And Johnny Munt, who they brought over from the Rams. You lose Tyler Conklin, but I think they probably feel okay about where those rooms are for now.

We're both receiver and tight end, but maybe next year that's something that they address a little bit earlier. With the Ty Chandler pick, the one thing I'll say is he does have kind of a similar profile, just size, speed, everything to to Nwongwu. But he carried the ball a lot more in college. Nwongwu was a guy who was kind of always behind people at Iowa State, whether it was Brees Hall or David Montgomery or whoever. And Chandler played a good amount of Tennessee and then did put up some big numbers last year at North Carolina after both of those. Their running backs got drafted last year. So I don't really know what to expect from,

from this round five to seven group, but I, I think it was, it's fair to expect at least one of those guys to maybe turn into to something interesting this year and going forward as well. Yeah, I think so. I think that's a fair supposition, you know, like, and in the late rounds, you know, you could argue on each, like for me with, with Naylor, I probably would have taken bone melt in the book, you know, like at that spot another big time receiver that I thought was under the radar

for, for differing reasons, but I don't mind the conviction in that, you know, like it's really hard to on, on each of these individual ones to say, you know, this was a huge mistake. I understood the, the direction that they were going in and the projectability of the guys that they ended up targeting. And I think you probably have here, what three, three for sure starters for for sure starters right away, something like that. And then the developmental prospects that you brought in, I think they're interesting at positions that they needed to get them in.

You know, I gave the Vikings a C-plus grade, but I grade on a curve. And so for me, C-plus is actually above average in the NFL. I know it doesn't seem like much in comparison to some of the other grades that the industry gives out. But for me, that is an above average draft for whatever it's worth. Yeah. So my overall impressions of this draft for the Vikings, obviously only time will tell kind of how it plays out, but I liked the first two picks a lot. I think they needed to address the secondary. You get Louis seen, you get Andrew Booth. I thought it was good value with both of those picks. I think they're going to bring just kind of a certain edge and toughness and physicality to that back end. And both, I think have a chance to be really good

players. After that, we'll see the two guys we talked about in the middle there with Ingram and Asamoah. I'm not sure about, but I can understand what the idea behind it was. And I could see a path for them becoming good players. And then Evans in the fourth round and then all the late round guys. I mean, you can kind of understand the rationale for every pick. And that's true of most picks in the NFL draft. There's not too many like true head scratchers, I guess, Cole Strange by the Patriots in the first round was one of those. But I think the thing that's going to be going to be fascinating for a long time is that whether it's fair or not, people are going to look back and judge this draft based on not only the players the Vikings picked, but some of the players that they didn't pick or that they kind of allowed the Lions and Packers to get in those trades. And, and Kweisi has said that, um, like he was pretty sure that, uh,

the Lions and the Packers in both instances probably could have made those trades and come up for those guys with teams in the area. Um, so why not do the trade themselves and benefit from the value of the return, but, uh, just within, that's just the nature of when you trade with your division rival, uh rival especially that first round deal where they move back so far it's just going to be, it's going to be reflected on and dissected for a long time, especially because it was Adolfo Mensah's first draft as GM. But that kind of ties in with what I want to talk about a little bit next, which is how the other teams in the NFC North did over the weekend.

And we'll start with the Lions, who I think, I like what they're building with Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell. And the Lions have not really struck fear into anybody's hearts for quite some time. The Vikings have just kind of dominated them for a long time. But last year they get Panay Sewell. And this year they get Aiden Hutchinson, who many people thought was going to be that number one guy. He falls into their lap at two

and then trade up for Jameson Williams, who I think has a ton of upside. What did you, what were your overall thoughts kind of, of, of that hall and the Lions draft at large? I gave the Lions an A minus. I, in terms of the division, I thought they probably had the best draft. And it's not because they had the most draft equity. It's the guys that they got in those slots. Like you said, Aiden Hutchinson, a two, nobody expected him to be there. That was a slam dunk. You also have the, you know, keeping the local kid home and stuff like that. That was a masterstroke for them getting Jamison Williams at 12. The Vikings, they can also make the argument on their side, but the Lions are absolutely thrilled.

They played the board right. There were some teams, you know, like Thursday night was a really chaotic night. It broke the record for most trades since we've gone to the three days with the draft, you know, over Thursday, Friday, Saturday, most first round trades we've seen. And we knew that there was going to be that receiver run. It was even more pronounced than we thought. Six of the first 18 picks ended up being wide receivers. The Lions knew that was coming.

They saw it begin. And then they made the very aggressive master stroke to move up. I love that. Getting Pascal in the second round, I had no problem with that. That kid's long stretched out athletic edge rusher. Zero problems with that. Kirby Joseph, i thought was really good value in the third round the the lions arguably had the worst secondary come in the in

the nfl coming into you know last weekend or whatever so you needed to address that kirby joseph was they hadn't done it yet before that he was really good value in that slot um you know and then and then going back malcolm rodriguez would probably be my next favorite and then chase lucas as well chase lucas he's gonna make that roster Chase Lucas if they don't do anything else might be starting you know across from Okuda next year but I also like the Malcolm Rodriguez pick in in round six he he's one of those guys who it the the only thing you can knock him on is the ruler stuff you know on the field he's awesome he piled up a billion tackles in college very very decorated kid um gets around the field well the field, he's awesome. He piled up a billion tackles in college, very,

very decorated kid, gets around the field well, plays fearless, but he's just a little bit smaller. Certainly has the athletic profile, though. That was the thing he proved in the pre-draft process to lock himself into the draft. I thought this was a very impressive draft by Detroit and another impressive draft by Detroit. They've had a couple straight now. The new front office they have very clearly different from the past ones where we would always be ranking their drafts at the bottom. These past couple of years, they've been near the top of the draft grades and for good reason. Yeah, it certainly seems like they know what they're doing and they're building the foundation. Now, they still need, obviously, the quarterback, but I don't think they're going to be particularly

good in 2022. I mean, that's kind of the baseline of what we've seen from the lions for a long time, but the pieces are there so that unless they surprise and they're in the wildcard mix, they'll probably be in the range to if not stay put and take one of the quarterbacks in this 2023 class that we're going to hear a lot about over the next year. Maybe they'll have the ammo to move up and go get one. Cause that kind of seems like that's,

that's the last, not the last piece, but that's, that's the biggest piece that if they can add that and address that position you've got talent on the offensive line, got talent on the defensive line, wide receiver, running back, even, even the linebackers and the, and the defensive line, wide receiver, running back, even the linebackers and the secondary now. They're building up a very competent roster. So not a team to be too concerned with in 2022, but they might be interesting for the first time in a while, starting as soon as 2023. The Packers, on the flip side, the class of the NFC North for a long time,

the team that the Vikings are chasing. And obviously they lose Devontae Adams this year. And who knows if they're going to be able to kind of keep it all together and keep winning games at such a high level under Matt LaFleur. But as long as they have Aaron Rodgers, I think the best bet is probably that they can. And they're the favorites uh and a little bit maybe concerning for Vikings fans that after the past couple years where you were like what are the Packers doing in the draft exactly um it seemed to me like they had a pretty pretty solid competent draft this year you gave them a B plus uh they get they get Quay Walker uh and and Devontae Wyatt two Georgia defenders in the

first round and then trade up for Christian Watson, add some other nice pieces throughout the rest of the day. You liked their draft. What was kind of the reasoning behind that? I did, yeah. The first pick I did not like, the Quay Walker one, we knew in advance of the draft, like in the three, four days leading up, that one team in the NFL had become absolutely obsessed with Koi Walker

because his first-round odds completely flipped. He was an enormous underdog to go in the first round a week before the draft. And then all of a sudden, two days before the draft, now he's a prohibited favorite to go in the first round. It turns out that that was the Packers. I didn't like that pick. He was surrounded by a historic amount of defensive talent last year. He was outplayed at his own position group by Channing Tindall, who was a compensatory third round pick last year.

That pick, I wasn't as big of a fan. You can certainly make the argument based on his measurables and such like that, the projectability of him. I just would not have taken that jump at 22 where they did. But the rest of the class I thought was awesome. Like really, really good stuff. Devontae Wyatt, you can't, you can't argue against him at 28. That's really good value. I am sort of curious what they do with him. Cause they got, you know, Kenny Clark as the three, four nose tackle Devontae Wyatt. He, his projection is as a four, three gap shooting three techniques. So I'm sort of curious how they're going to do that, but I really like his game.

In fact, I comped him to a former, people that, people that the Vikings fans and NFC North fans will know quite well. Tommy Harris, former Bears first rounders, is the guy that I comped him to Christian Watson. I thought that was a great move for them as well. You know, the Vikings, you know, and this sort of goes in line with the other trade, the Vikings, the Vikings make the trade with the Lions, presumably took that offer over other ones because it guaranteed them two picks in the top 35. Seems like they prioritize that. I think a part of the reason they might have is because they knew it was a bit deeper, sort of in that alleyway going from the first to the second round. Kweisi probably, you know, I'm not trying to give him too much credit, but it didn't take any logical leaps to get here. If you look at the board,

that that 34th pick was going to be quite valuable, as was the 32nd. He mentioned that he got good trade offers for that, that he ended up turning down. And the fact that Louis Seaton was there, I understand why he would. At 34, you're also going to get aggressive offers because the guys that were still on the board.

I was in some ways surprised that the Packers didn't take Christian Watson at 28. That's what I had in my last mock draft. I think I had in the last few mock drafts, just because the Packers came into this thing, along with the Falcons, probably the two worst wide receiving cores in the NFL. And Christian Watson was the one receiver in this class that looked like he had been built from birth to be a Green Bay Packer receiver receiver. It't just because he was a Packer you know fan back in the day wasn't just because in college he he wore Packer like uh you know colors at NESU or whatever it was also just just the profile that's what they always go for six four two ten runs in the four threes boundary receiver that pops the top plays his butt off blocks his butt off, stuff like that. He's just sort of like

a next evolution of a Marquez Valdez-Scanling who they lost. He's Marquez Valdez-Scanling, but plus, plus, plus. So it wasn't surprising that they ended up making that move back up the board with the Vikings. I like their other picks too. Sean Ryan was a really good value. Dubes, I was a little bit lower on than they are um he reminds me of Quinn Asifas a guy that got drafted into the NFC North a couple years ago I'm just worried about his juice because he's a guy who's he's an another big stout outside receiver that pops the top like the Packers always go for um but I'm just wondering if he has the athletic juice for everything else to play up in the NFL we'll see about that but the rest of the I, I mean, just great, great work. Like Zach, Tom was a steal in the fourth round Kingsley on X bar.

He should not have been there at the 179th pack. The NFL was just a little bit concerned about his testing profile, but that could play. I mean, he's been producing in the sec now for years and years. He's got the length. He's got everything else like that. Certainly the explosion. We saw that. I believe it was his vertical jump where he tested really well. And then the other pick I liked a lot there was Rashid Walker. I was really surprised he was available at pick 249. I had him 127th on my board. I have not graded the Packers last two classes. Well, I did not think Gutekinds in maybe even three years that he's drafted well since he's taken over the primary drafting job, but this was really slick work this year. I'm sorry to say.

Yeah. Not the thing that Vikings fans necessarily want to hear, but again, it's all kind of rejection. We'll see how, how it plays out. And I do think the Vikings objectively got great value in that trade that they made. And again, like if Christian Watson becomes like the next, not he's not going to be the next Devante Adams, but if he becomes a really good number one wide receiver, there'll be fans who are like, why'd you do that? They probably could have gotten up and gotten them anyways at, I don't know, 35, 36, 30, like somewhere in that range.

So the Vikings taking that deal and getting two first round picks for one, and then having some of the ammo to go up and get Andrew Booth. I think they did really well there, but you have to give some credit to the Packers. It looks like they had a strong haul. Now the Bears are another story. You rated them even below the Vikings with a C minus. I was just surprised, man. Like I thought they were going to prioritize getting Justin Fields help, getting him wide receivers, getting him offensive linemen. And they got in their first two picks are defensive backs. And I think Kyle,

Kyler Gordon and Jaquan Brisker could both be very good players, but it was just an interesting approach to me. Was that kind of the reason why you didn't like their draft or was it just the, the, the players that they ended up with? Both. Yeah. I mean, it was both the positions they ended up targeting, but also the prospects they got and the slots they did. You know, I think when you go into a draft, you know, Ryan Pace, in his defense, he goes into the draft with this Swiss,

you know, Swiss cheese type roster where they have all these different holes. In part, that was by design, because he doesn't want to give all multi-year deals and free agency to veterans right now. And certainly I understand why he doesn't want to give all multi-year deals and free agency to veterans right now and certainly i understand why i don't want to tie up his future cap room but but that was the case and they didn't have the ton of draft equity because of the field straight last year so they were sitting outside the first round but but the positive of that like the you know you can cut things both ways that the positive about that heading into a draft is you with the other picks that you have,

you can go best available because there's so few positions that you're that are just set that you don't need. And so that was my bigger issue with Chicago here. You have the flexibility to go all these different directions in this draft. As we talked about before, it was weaker up top the top 10, the top 15, any evaluator you talk to would tell you the top 10, top 15 was worse than, you know, in terms of quality of the ones you could see the last five years. But where's the strength of the class? It's in day two. And then, you know, earlier on into day three, not tying myself into specific positions. I would have had this big group of positions and then been going best available. And maybe that's what they, they, they would say that they did. But for me, some of these guys were not best available. Like their first two picks, I had no problem with the Kyler Gordon pick, zero problems with Jaquan Brisker. I have zero problems with those guys.

They're probably going to play immediately for them. It was the picks after that, you know, and in late day two and then into day three, especially for a roster like that and where you are right now, and you need these guys to come in and at least be good, at least be worthy of the developmental time that you're going to sink into them. That was my issue with this. Like, Velas Jones at 71, I don't really know what you're doing there. Me and a couple of people I was watching the Senior Bowl with down in Mobile,

we were making some jokes about Velas Jones. He wasn't playing that good on the field. We didn't love his tape. I was surprised that he was a, really surprised that he was a third-round receiver. That was one of the ones in the first two days where I was like, really? You know, especially in comparison to some of the other guys on the board the Braxton Jones pick I did like but will I totally with what you're saying the surprise for me was that you don't take the offensive lineman before right like you know by all means take the receiver but why are you take why are you going to reach up for Vilas Jones in the third round when there's still viable offensive lineman on the board that could come in start immediately Braxton Jones I actually like his you know projectability I like the the

idea of him as a developmental guy but if for me with Chicago one of the things you need to prioritize is improving the protection for Justin Fields next season because one of the very important things for your program is how is Justin Fields going to be progressing? You want to see that, you know, him, him step up this coming season. If you don't have any time to throw, that's going to be an issue. And one thing about Braxton Jones, even though I like him as a prospect, a developmental guy, I'm not sure that he can be playable next year, especially he's going to be on one of the boundaries or whatever. Fifth round pick is probably not going to come in

and contribute a ton right away. One thing I was looking at your grades that I wanted to point out that I think Vikings fans would find amusing is in the seventh round, they took another tackle, Jatire Carter, who you had comped to Dakota Dozier. So now the Bears have a Dakota Dozier comp, and they also have Dakota Dozier. I love it when the comps, when it like lines up with something in reality, because obviously, you know, Will, as you know, like I do all these, you know, pre-draft whatnot, you know, put off the board. But like, you know, for instance, the Patriots picked up Cole Strange in the first round

when everyone was going nuts about that. I just, so I had ranked Cole Strange a little bit higher than that in the 50s. But like, also, when it happened, I just had a sort of a slight grim because when I had watched him, he grew on me more and more as I watched him, but he, I ended up comping him to Joe Thune. And so it wasn't a surprise to me, the organization that ended up taking him in this case too, you know, it's always sort of funny when it, when it lines up like that. But yeah, with, with Carter, he has some projectable tools for sure. And some projectable traits, but just like Dakota Dozier,

it was a kid that played tackle effectively at one of the subdivisions. That's going to have to go up into the NFL and learn how to be a guard, you know, and they're going to be relying on Dakota Dozier to start this coming season. I'm happy. The Vikings don't have to say the same. And maybe he can teach Mr. Carter, you know, sort of how to transition from the one position to the other in the NFL. I want to get you out here. I want to ask you one question that kind of puts you on the spot here. But this is going back into into recent drafts.

Is there a Vikings player from the past few drafts. I mean, you can go back as far as you want. That since you've been doing this has kind of surprised you in either a positive or negative way with what they've done in the NFL compared to how you evaluated them coming out of school. I was going to look back at the picks because I could probably give you 20. But because of that specific quote, right off the top of my head, Justin Jefferson. Man, like, Justin Jefferson,, like I liked him in college. You know, he had to pay prior to 2019.

He had to play in the paint drying offense, you know, like the sort of the vestiges of the old Les Miles offenses. And he was playing outside receiver there did as much as he could. You know, he was, he was the one guy that was getting targets there. And then his last year he played the slot. What I was wondering is in a high octane offense could he be a stud on the outside could he be a star like I knew he could do everything from the slot and I knew he could do a bunch of the stuff from the outside because I seen that

earlier in his career it was just like for the for like a really good offense for a contending offense could he be that guy in the outside the fact that that was even a question in my mind tells you that I made a mistake there. And right away, I knew it immediately. Like this kid is special. He was just a weird evaluation because of the circumstance, right? Like, you know, his offense in his circumstance didn't jump up until that last season. And when it did on the outside, they had two special prospects there too. Jamar Chase on the one side and then Terrace Marshall on the other side. He was another five star, you you know and then he ended up going in the second round but Jefferson in that situation was better for the slot and and in your head you're

trying to unparse your unspool is that because they think the other guys are better for the outside work turns out no it turns out the kid's a stud turns out the kid is is on par early on his career with Randy Moss's early on numbers so that one I was definitely wrong and me a call put a Justin Jefferson well you weren't the only one the the NFL let him be the the fifth receiver taken in that draft so certainly kind of a lot of people who didn't expect to see this just kind of historic start to his career but yeah I think that'll wrap it up for us. Thanks so much for, for coming on my first episode here and people can find your, your work at NBC sports edge,

formerly known as Roto world and on Twitter at Thor KU. Thanks for coming on, man. Well, thanks so much. And it was honored to be on your first show.