Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Trey Smith franchise tagged, now what?

Episode Date: February 28, 2025

The Chiefs have placed the franchise tag on star guard Trey Smith. Now what? Should the Vikings try to pull off a trade or shift their focus to other free agent guard targets? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I've got this condition where I don't feel pain. You're a superhero. This is how intense Nova Kane sounds. Imagine how it looks. Yeah, big time. Novocaine. Forming theaters March 14th. Hey everybody.

Welcome to another episode of Purple Inside or Matthew Coller here. And yes, I am back at home from the NFL combine. And yes, I know the combine is just starting with the players getting on the field, but all the coaches and general managers have done their talking. And I did, I think 12 podcasts with a lot of different guests over the last couple of years, last couple of days. Sorry. And, uh, so make sure you go check all of those out that I did from the combine, but it's always been better for me to come back home and watch on TV with you and listen

to Daniel Jeremiah and the reporters there talk about everything that's going on at the combine with the workouts. That's much better for me than sitting in the stands at Lucas oil stadium and not knowing a lot about a lot of these players. So just today I was lucky to, uh, fly home on a plane that had a TV with NFL network. So as I'm flying home from Indy, I'm listening to Daniel Jeremiah talk about Derek Harmon who has become now a name that I think everybody has to know after the combine in connection with the Minnesota Vikings, but also a lot of other defensive tackles as well,

the defensive lineman, and also the news that's constantly coming out and updates on free agent situations with Ian Rapaport when he's not getting in altercations at Starbucks, then he is giving us the insight into what's going on, which is the place to begin tonight's show. And two quick things, this is an ask me anything combine version.

So get in the chat, ask me any questions that you got, whatever you wanna know, I am here to answer, back from the Combine, whatever I've come up with, whatever discussions you wanna have, throw those questions in the chat and we will have a really good discussion about the next couple of weeks for the Minnesota Vikings, which will tell the story.

The other thing is I've been talking to people for several days straight and podcasting and my voice is a little bit on the edge tonight. So I've got my trusty diet, Dr. Pepper, but some forgiveness for that and my general exhaustion might be required. So I appreciate that. And also I just want to shout out before I get to your questions and the Trey Smith situation, producer for Purple Insider, Jonathan Harrison,

who was an absolute trooper this week, getting up all 12 of those podcasts that I ripped off onto YouTube and producing it and helping me out technologically and everything else so much this week, invaluable Purple Insider couldn't exist without him. So I just want to say a thank you on the show here. Now let's get to Trey Smith.

So the report is today that Trey Smith, the apple of the eye of all Vikings fans, the one guard who could change everything is apparently going to be franchise tagged. Now that doesn't mean that he's going to play for the Kansas city chiefs next year. It just means that he's franchise tagged. They could also do exactly what the Vikings are talking about doing with Sam Darnold, which is to tag Trey Smith and then trade him away. Knowing the amount of interest around the NFL in Trey Smith and then trade him away. Knowing the amount of interest around the NFL in Trey Smith, just Google him

and you'll see all these different teams saying, their media saying, oh no, Trey Smith, we had written him in as the Texans or all these other teams, the Packers, everybody else, everybody had Trey Smith as being their top signing, but instead, you know, he gets franchise tagged. And I think one team will step up and make a trade for him, especially with the extra cap space. And this is where it does come into play because I had seen some people and I've

been asked on the show like, Hey, doesn't more cap space mean the free agents will just ask for more money? And to some extent, the answer is yes. But the franchise tag is based on all the previous contracts. So suddenly, when you trade Sam Darnold to another team, instead of taking up 18 or 20% of the cap, it takes up like 14% of the cap, which might be easier for them to deal with. That's a couple of players right there. And the Kansas City Chiefs might be thinking the exact same thing with Trey Smith. Why would we let you walk out the door now

and hope to get a third round comp pick next year? And I always say hope because there's no guarantee because comp picks are based on a formula with your spending and what left your team. And this is why it's so important for the Vikings to find a suitor to tag and trade because we don't really know what this will be worth in terms of Sam Darnold's comp pick next year. Oh, and by the way, you also have to wait until the next year.

So if you're Kansas City, you're tagging him, it's 23 million or something like that, someone will pay it and then they'll try to work out an extension with him the same way that the Vikings traded for TJ Hawkinson knowing that they were going to work out an extension for him. So I think that that's Kansas City's plan. They could also cut Joe Tooney. And that's a part of, we make all these free agent lists

and then all of a sudden we get to the NFL combine Fascinating coincidence and all of a sudden we see Rappaport and Schefter reporting this guy's out there for a trade that guy's out there for a trade The team is giving him permission to go look for a trade. How nice of them. They're actually going to cut him Almost no matter what guy it is, the only guy would be Matthew Stafford that they're not going to cut or maybe Debo Samuel that someone would trade for.

But aside from that players like Jonathan Allen, Jonah Jackson, their teams just don't wanna cut them because it's not advantageous. It's better if they're able to trade him, which I'm mildly intrigued by the Jonah Jackson idea, but he hasn't really been all that healthy. The point being that, you know, a lot of teams are trying to do trades and things like that,

and more players will become available than we think right now, right? More players will be free agents than are on the free agent lists, because last minute, when teams need to make some cap space to go into free agency, we're going to see players get cut over the next week that will become available.

That could add to the amount of guys that the Vikings could go after in free agency. But now if Trace Smith is off the list, it's on to what's the answer. From this show's perspective, I have always been quite skeptical of the idea in general, because there was always that very realistic possibility that Trace Smith would just resign with the Chiefs because they're the Chiefs. And although they never do that well in the NFLPA survey,

isn't that funny? The Holmes, I guess, would get A pluses, but the rest of the organization never seems to anyway. So there was always that very realistic possibility. Trace Smith would stay there anyway. And I didn't love and I still don't the idea of paying one guy with the hopes that he completely revitalizes your interior, your line, as opposed to getting three guys.

So if you give me 25 million, I want to look to get Will fries. I think we'll probably get overpaid, but you know, he's a name that's out there. Brandon's sure if Kevin's Zitler, there's a bunch of them who are options, which I'd like to see two, if not three, depending on what they want to do at the center position. I still right now expect Garrett Bradbury to be the center, but they could definitely make a change there if they were looking to improve in pass blocking.

How much they can actually improve is a major question. And the fact that Bradbury knows the offense as well as he does would play in their favor for JJ McCarthy. I also will say no matter how many times it comes up with Bradbury, I'd love to see him with two good guards for once in his whole entire career. Please, please get Garrett Bradbury some guards

get the Vikings quarterback, the running game get him some guards. So there are other guys that are out there that they're going to spend, I think, multiple free agents there, if not their first round draft pick, which is where a lot of intrigue comes in. Who's a center, who's a guard, who's a tackle,

what position are they playing? Is this tackle going to be somebody who would immediately convert to guard and be an above average player there with there be more development or is it just Tyler Booker or bust in the first round because he's the top name on the board from Alabama gigantic mammoth physical human being that I think the Vikings would be quite interested in. So how do they approach that? But I always had the Trace Smith idea as not Trace Smith or bust. If they signed him, I would have said, okay, well, off we go with the guards.

Right. But even when you look at his past protection numbers over the years, is he worth being the highest paid player at that position? Is he worth 25 million versus shoring up the entire line? I never thought that that was really the case. So I think that they can make very big improvements with getting multiple players that are 10 to $15 million type of players at guard rather than just Trey Smith. And I have been consistent on this,

so I don't want to hear you just coping now that Trey Smith is off the table. Which you know it's not 100% off the table. I just don't know what the heck the Vikings would trade for Trey Smith versus other teams that have a lot more draft capital if that's what Kansas City is really doing. There is another note that I wanted to bring up about Byron Murphy Jr. So Pat Leonard of the New York Daily News, sorry if I have the outlet wrong, but reported that the Giants are very interested

in Byron Murphy Jr. And once again, this goes to, hey, your team's not the only team looking for corners in the free agent market. And the giants desperately need to be better in their secondary. They were bringing back a Dory Jackson, I think last year, just struggling. And Murphy is, I think it shows you the top name or second top name on the market with the six interceptions that pushes him up.

And likewise to Trey Smith, I have always thought very highly of Byron Murphy Jr. Since he got here, I thought he was a key piece in 2023, but also have felt like if you're talking about 18, 20 million dollars, that that's a lot. And that if teams are going to bid that high, the Vikings do have to have some sort of walk away number with Byron Murphy Jr. If they overpay by a little, what's 3 million, what's 2 million for somebody who you're really like, who's been part of your team and you can predict what they're going to do.

Like predictiveness is really a big deal. Like, you know, that guy's health, you know how he fits in your system. You don't know that about someone else you're going out and getting. And so that's worth something. But I think the report that Byron Murphy is getting attention from the Giants is just emblematic that he's going to get

a lot of phone calls because he's probably the best cornerback that is out there. And is he a shutdown, true number one superstar? No, that's not who Byron Murphy is. And I can just envision if he gets paid $17 million a year by the Vikings, you're gonna have a lot of people who say, well, he's not that good. And I would agree, but that's how free agency works.

You're as good as what someone's going to pay you. But if you go and you get corners who are much worse than Byron Murphy for cheap, well, that doesn't help either. And if you get guys who don't fit as well, that doesn't help either. And where that position ranks as far as in the draft is also a whole other conversation as well. If you have a guard, a defensive tackle and a corner who are all pretty even on your draft board at number 24 or wherever you're trading down to, which one would you take?

Or does the corner have to be way better than the guard or defensive tackle? How much do they think that position can be replaced? How much do they think that it is a huge impact position in this defense? I mean, I think you kind of go both ways with it. Like, yeah, Byron Murphy gets targeted a lot, but not a lot down the field because teams are dropping back quick

and he's rallying into the football because of the blitzes and stuff like that. So his target numbers, I think are a little overrated. Like, oh, he's rally into the football because of the blitzes and stuff like that. So his target numbers, I think are a little overrated. Like, oh, he's targeted all the time and the best corners don't get targeted. Like I get that. But if it's not deep targets and he's intercepting downfield targets or block, you know, knocking them away, I think that he's, you know, he's, he's a pretty darn good corner. Is he the best corner in the league? Is he a top five? Like, no, I wouldn't put him up there. And that if he gets paid like a top 10,

but that's not where he is, then everyone's going to say, well, you overpaid, but again, it's just not how free agency generally works. So I'm kind of on both sides of the fence of that. I think they have to have a walk away number because there are other corners like Carlton Davis and DJ Reed who I like a lot. I really like DJ Reed as a potential option for the Vikings. But the other thing is too about Murphy and corners are a little tricky with this. He's not that old as he hits free agency where again, actually for the second time. Whereas some of these guys are 28, 29, 30 and corners do have that same sort of thing as running backs where when they get past 28, 29, 30 they don't have

the same amount of juice as they had before. So I do think that DJ Reid is an option, Carlton Davis that there's a lot of other types of corners that are out there that maybe they've got their eye on that Brian Flores likes that we don't know about. Like we, I think I may have mentioned Andrew Van Ginkle at some point last year as somebody that I liked, but I mean, you know, he clearly had Van Ginkle is circled as his top guy

who we wanted to bring in orled as his top guy who we wanted to bring in or one of his top guys. There may be a quarterback version of that that we just don't know about. I do know that the Vikings really liked the way that Byron Murphy fits in their defense. I know they really liked the way he fits in their locker room and they're willing to pay for it, but they've just got to have a certain point where they say, all right, New York giants, Byron Murphy is yours.

We'll go and get somebody else. And that report kind of highlights that. So those are kind of the big, uh, big takeaways for today. The big two news stories that, uh, are relevant to the Vikings and nothing really in terms of movement on quarterbacks today, The defensive tackles looked great at the combine. A lot of big numbers, NFL, also their media just put out this thing. How do I describe it?

Like an analytics base, home base to go in and look at all the numbers and where they rank and percentiles and all sorts of stuff that I will be messing around with a lot but just from watching NFL network on the flight home my impression was that yeah i this defensive tackle group is filled with a lot of different body types a lot of different options and some serious physical beats. Cameron says. serious physical beasts. Cameron says Patrick McCarrey is our guy, so Patrick McCarrey might be a name that you should learn. He has played for the Ravens for a really long time. Not you, Cameron. You clearly know his name, but everybody else who doesn't know who Patrick McCarrey is. He plays for the Ravens and he's played every position for the Ravens, which does sound bad at first, but he established himself as a starter and has done pretty well,

especially as a past protector over the last couple of years. So he is got a lot of experience in a lot of different places can slot in anywhere can also act as a swing tackle. If you needed him to go in and play for Christian Darasaw because this year they didn't have a guy like that. And as soon as Darasaw got hurt, it was just a panic and they him to go in and play for Christian Derrisaw, because this year they didn't have a guy like that. And as soon as Derrisaw got hurt, it was just a panic, and they had to go get Cam Robinson.

But McCarrie has had a good career with the Ravens, still in his prime, would be an average to above average, potentially starter for the Vikings, if they were to go out and sign him. I'm sure, like everyone else, he'll have a lot of interest. But yeah, I mean, he's a name that I think people definitely need to know. Topaz says that just eliminates scenario X from Quacey's list.

Let him cook. Yeah, if I don't even know. See, the thing about Trey Smith is I don't even know if that was one of their scenarios or not for the Vikings, whether they were interested. I think they probably were. And I'm sure like everybody else, they had a price and they were going to try to get them here. And I can't overstate how much the Vikings have an edge when you have three years of data from the NFL players association survey saying the players inside TCO Performance Center love being there. And if you are a player trying to decide, hey, you know, Arizona and Minnesota, they got the good offers for me. Let's see. Let's what what did what did their players think?

Oh, Arizona gave their locker room an F minus. So I think I'm going to go be a Viking. And we, I think we saw that last year. I think we saw it with Stefan Gilmore that Stefan Gilmore had a chance to, I think, play with Carolina because he's from there and they were desperate for corners. And instead he came, he visited the Vikings, decides to come here. Of course, they up the price tag for him a little bit to get him in the building. But I mean, I think a major part of it was just the environment that they've created so if they were tracing a chasing after trey smith they would have

had a good chance for him but now i think if it's a trade situation it's much less so and they're gonna have to move on to different options uh evan says our relative athletic scores out yet is r? Is RIS the biggest indicator of potential? I would not say that. I would not say, so what relative athletic scores are, you're gonna see a lot of this and the nfl.com analytics have a very similar type of thing that takes the combined scores and creates

like a one number type of thing out of a hundred. So it's mathematically possible for the NFL to recreate and creates like a one number type of thing out of 100. So it's mathematically possible for the NFL to recreate kind of what RAS invented. So RAS is just a combination of all the scores from the combine from different events. And then it's made relative to importance for the position and weighted to give them one score.

So if a defensive tackle runs a five one, it's weighted differently than if a running back runs a five one, that he wouldn't even get invited to the combine, right? So that's how it works. And I think that it's just one small blip in the entire picture of a player, but it can also knock some guys off the list.

I mean, if you have a running back who scores in the 20th percentile, well, you're not really looking at something special there. But I also don't look at it as saying potential. And it's used that way, I think, way too often, because we've seen so many players who score high and are great athletes. I think it just says what's your raw athleticism, but that doesn't mean you can play football and we've seen a lot of that.

I mean the Vikings drafted how many guys trying to emulate the Neil Hunter and this this guy from Texas A&M. Oh, he's the next Miles Garrett. This is a great way to demonstrate it from the relative athletic score based on the combine. Yeah, this guy looks like miles Garrett. I will bet you all the money in my bank account. This guy isn't miles Garrett. I mean, miles Garrett has athletic skill

that goes so far beyond this skills as a pass rusher. The guy can dunk a basketball through his legs. Like he can shoot threes. He's like a gifted sports player and technician and all that stuff beyond just underwear Olympics. And I think that what history has shown about that is that teams get fooled more than they succeed with things like RAS. I mean, they get fooled on guys like Trayvon Walker and not

taking Aidan Hutchinson. The most important thing and this has been studied as you watch the combine just keep this in mind the most important thing in terms of correlation from success in college to the NFL you'll never believe it. It's production. It's production. If a running back like Jonathan Taylor runs for I don't know how many yards he ran for 2000 yards at Wisconsin, pretty good chance that he could play in the NFL if he meets the athletic ability, right? Like the production in college, how is the best thing for the NFL?

So as you look at these prospects, I mean, yeah, you want freaks, but don't get overly wowed by that and say, Oh, well, you know, this guy was a little more freaky at the combine than this other guy who produced a lot more. So, uh, that's just something as you watch what I like it most for. I mean, yeah, I love to watch when you see some 300 pound dude run a four eight or whatever. It's crazy. I just like to watch for the information. I respect the heck out of Daniel Jeremiah. I think he's the absolute best at getting research

background, the eye that he has for these things. I mean, sometimes you'll be watching a drill and you're like, I don't know, I can't tell one guy from the next. And he'll point out like, this is what this says about that player or how it's used or what we should be looking for. So if you're watching the combine,

that's what to listen for really is Daniel Jeremiah's thoughts. And he was wowed by somebody like Derek Harmon, which is why he's got so much attention for me. But the kid, what is his name? Farmer from Florida State looks pretty good and was talked up quite a bit. There's a lot of them at defensive tackle.

It's just Harmon has really popped for me. John says, is Matthew Stafford the first quarterback in the carousel to fall? That is a great question and I wish I knew the answer. Because you could look at it two ways as far as what Stafford means to this entire thing. You could look at it as, well, he's gotta find his home

first because he's going to be option number one for quarterback-needy teams, and then everything else can fall into place. You could also look at it as everybody in the league probably knows that there's two teams that could get Matthew Stafford, and yes, whoever is left out of that party is going to be really desperate for Sam Darnold, but also if you're not the Raiders or the Giants,

if you're the Titans, if you're the Steelers, then you already know, hey, we're not in the Matt Stafford race, so let's go talk about Sam Darnold, and then it won't have a whole lot of relevance. I do think it becomes easier if Stafford went to the Giants, then the Raiders are next man up and they're right there, or the Rams.

It does add another team. So it makes it easier, but I don't think it has to happen if he is traded fairly soon. And you think about the timing of this thing, the franchise tag has to be put on Darnold in five days. So if the Vikings are putting on the franchise tag, and then not only that, but like a week after that is free agency.

So in that week span, I think the Vikings would love to know where's Matthew Stafford going, which teams are in on, they probably already know by now, in on a potential tag in trade, if that's a realistic possibility. It does make it so much easier. There also might be some discussion already between the Rams and Vikings of,

all right, once we get Stafford out, then Darnold's coming our way. But if Stafford is still a Ram, after Darnold gets franchise tagged in that week after that, if he's still a Ram and we're still messing around with him going skiing with Tom Brady, well, then the Vikings just have to trade Darnold to wherever they can trade Darnold.

And I think still there's enough teams that are interested in Sam Darnold that they will be able to do the tag and trade. That's my projection right now. We'll see how it plays out. We'll get that answer in just a couple of days. But so I think the answer is yes and no, it would be way easier if Matthew Stafford would just get traded to the Raiders tomorrow. Then again, I don't think it has to happen for the Vikings in order to be able to move Sam Darnold when they need to do it.

And they really need to do it before they start getting contracts in because you could agree in principle, and this often happens, where they agree with a free agent to a contract and it's not actually signed for a little while later till the guy comes to Minnesota, puts pen to paper, and so we all celebrate the signing, oh look, they got this guy, all right, big, big, you know,

big move, and like he doesn't actually sign until he gets there the next day or whatever it might be So it doesn't have to be that moment that as soon as it's agreed upon Then it goes on the salary cap doesn't have to work like that So they could delay a little bit if they needed to and wait to trade Sam Darnold But you really don't want to play that that game of chicken you want to tag Darnold and trade them immediately that game of chicken. You want to tag Darnold and trade him immediately so that's off your books and it's all taken care of and you can go into free agency

with two giant sacks of money and you can say, who wants him? Who wants to be here with a plus coach, a plus ownership, a plus treatment of families? I mean, it is a holiday when that thing comes out for the Vikings. And I gotta say, this is what holiday when that thing comes out for the Vikings. And I got to say, this is what I've always said about the Wolf ownership,

that if my biggest critique of them in the past was that they always tried to win and didn't take a longer term vision, that's a pretty good critique because everything else they, they hit out of the park with this franchise and it gives the Vikings an opportunity to go into free agency and spend that money on guys that they know they can get so i think that just in general. As you guys being fans myself objectively analyzing what this nfl pa survey has done is confirmed everything i thought. has done is confirmed everything I thought. I don't cover all the teams, so I don't know what every single team's locker room is like

and things like that, but I thought the Vikings had about as good as it gets as far as culture goes, and that just confirms it once again. Wade says, I hope Quasi Daffo Mensa repeats last year's free agency path one step below the top glitzy names. Trey Smith is too much for one position.

So how did last year go? I'm trying to remember how last year went. Like who were the glitzy names? There was Christian Wilkins was a glitzy name and he made 27 million dollars a year. Jonathan Grenard had to be pretty high on the glitzy list because they signed three free agents in one day. If you're a day one free agent, that means you're pretty much at the top of the list. I understand what you're saying because Andrew van Ginkel only made like $12 million a year. I think it was what two years, 24 mil. So he wasn't necessarily at the top. Grenard definitely was. Hunter would have been, Hunter would have been higher. Kirk Cous cousins would have been the high, you know, number one type guy.

Granada was probably third or fourth, but Cashman and Van Ginkle would not have been two guys that at this time of year we were talking about, well, man, oh wow, they really need them. And then we realized once we got into the games and saw them play, Oh, actually, well, wow, they really did need them. So you're right though. Savvy spending in free agency is a lot better than flashy historically. And there's not all that much flash in this free agency, which could be somewhat of the issue is like Trey Smith was the big flashy name, but the next

tier down, there's a, there's a handful of guys who will absolutely be better than what they had in Blake Brandel and what they got the totality of the right guard position. I still think that Dalton Reisner did as well as he could have done and was a good pass protector, but not a difference maker at all in the run game and didn't make people better in the run game either because of his physical limitations so can you find some guys that can be a little more balanced a little more effective in the run game bring a little more grit to it and pass block at a high level as well yes you can but all of them come with there is some downside like just for example it will fries he has. There is some downside like just for example it will fries he has. A pretty good history numbers wise not amazing and he got hurt last year will her nandez has a really good history but he got hurt last year kevin zyler is a wonderful player buddies old same brand sure if who is not the same run blockers used to be though. You know, I wonder, I mean, Jacksonville, you know, how good was their run scheme? Still the Vikings isn't that great either. So all the ones that are not Trace Smith

all come with a little bit of a, is this guy really going to completely change who you are as a team based on the interior? And that's why there might be an argument for them drafting someone as a guard in the first round, trying to trade down, take us early second round guard, get another third round pick, something like that. There's so many different options for the Vikings there,

but having this one off the table, certainly not devastating and was more along the lines of my plan in general for them, which was to get two guys in free agency for the same price, but they're going to have imperfections to them even if they are an improvement. Matt says, feels like we started out the offseason with DJ Reed as the clear number one free agent corner. Doesn't seem like that's true anymore. Any idea why that is? Um, I, you know, I really think that when it comes to Reed, anybody who was in New York just got kind of buried. Reed is a great corner.

He is a little bit older than someone like Byron Murphy, I think. And playing for the Jets just just irrelevant. I mean, Byron Murphy was on the big stage a lot. He was playing for one of the best teams in the league and got some key interceptions and huge games like against the Los Angeles Rams on Thursday night that's a national TV game he had the one against Kirk that got highlight and shown over and over again and he really played well though I mean you look at his numbers he was a top 20 corner by PFF last year and so

that's not just interceptions because they don't give a huge boost for the guy through it right to you. So his overall play was good. And I think that he can be viewed as an ascending player where maybe DJ Reid isn't, but I honestly think that in free agency, a lot has to do with just Trey Smith is an example of this. A lot has to do with how good good was your team if you were on a great team you're going to get more attention than if you were on a bad team if you're a real good player on a real bad team you're gonna get less if you win the super bowl. You gonna get more is the fact of the matter and that's what always scare me a little about trace Smith anyway. Which was that he's playing on this great team and you're going to get more attention. His numbers are good and his especially his run blocking is good. But is he worth that much? Would he be worth that

much if he wasn't playing with Patrick Malm's with the Kansas City Chiefs with a quick passing offense? If he's playing in a deep drop back offense, is he going to hold up or some of those big whiffs where he's trying to be super physical going to eventually hurt him, which could be the case. Tyler says I heard Josina Anderson report that Stefan Gilmore was present at the combine. Does that mean he's not retiring? Is a return to Minnesota an option and how do Harrison and Gilmore affect Byron Murphy and KM Byno? I definitely think that I don't know about Gilmore. If he's at the combine, that probably does mean that he wants another job and wants to keep playing. And maybe he is meeting with the Vikings or it could be anything though.

It could also be, he's not really a media guy, but who did I see there a couple of years ago? These guys have meetings sometimes that are totally unrelated with anything, but it just is going on at the combine because that's where everybody is. So I don't want to jump to that conclusion necessarily that he wants to play again or that he's looking for somewhere else because I saw who did I see out there? Vaughn Miller one year. He was just like the highest paid pass rusher at the time.

And he was there doing some media stuff because there is a lot of media related to it. But Gilmore is not the biggest media guy. Maybe he does want to play again. I thought he was good for the Vikings. You're probably trying to look for better than Gilmore. And if Mackay Blackman is coming back, where does he play? Would he want to be a rotational type of guy?

Felt to me like he was great at the beginning of the season and then kind of wore down as things went along. It was a great signing, seven million bucks or whatever it was for 10 million for an entire season of quality play was great. But I don't know if him being at the combine means that he wants to come back or whatever else.

But as far as you're, that's not your question. Your question is how do they affect the Vikings off season? I mean, it certainly does it safety. I think probably more at safety because my expectation was not that Stefan Gilmore was going to return to the Vikings anyway. I was assuming that he was either going to sign somewhere else as they looked for other options in free agency or that he was going to retire. So he was already in my mind, kind of not a Viking.

Maybe that'll change, but Harrison Smith definitely, because if Harrison Smith goes, then you could resign, combine them and move Josh Mattel is back to a regular safety position, which I say regular with finger quotes because Josh Mattel is not Harrison Smith. Most people are not, but he really does a lot of the same things already, which is moving up into the box. He's probably not going to be as good of a deep safety in playing the footballs Harrison Smith. But again, that's like a hall of fame talent. So you can't really make that comparison. But being in command being the real leader of that group coming up into the box blitzing playing games with quarterbacks heads. Those are all things that Mattel is can do and that Joker position maybe ends up being someone else that they develop or a different linebacker or Ivan Pace or whatever they want to do with that.

Or Theo Jackson would be in the mix as well. But they also could go into free agency and look around and see what the prices are because if, you know, when you talk about can't buy them, he is a deep safety who is super healthy and brings a lot of football IQ and a lot of great character to your room and all that's worth it. But deep safeties are probably the most replaceable position on defense. We saw Anthony Harris do it. We saw Anderson Dayhoe do it. There are a lot of guys and Theo Jackson when he's had to step in who can do that? Who could play that deep safety spot? Bynum has been really good at it, but it is it worth $15 million? It's the same question that we're asking all

the time. But if Harrison Smith retires and then you're talking about only having Mattelis and Theo Jackson and then going into free agency, if you can't get Javon Holland, the former Brian Flores draft pick in Miami, who's really good. Well, you can get Trayvon Moorig, you could get Justin Reed. Like there's other options that are out there that are pretty good at that position that might be better football players than can't buy them overall. But it does add another thing to the pile of players you have to go get. If Harrison Smith comes back, maybe it's a little easier to replace that.

I don't know. Yeah, you could definitely go one way or the other on that about how much it actually affects it. Because I think with Bynum, it is a math question too. It's how much is this position worth, that job worth versus what he might get. It still comes down to that, whether Harrison Smith is there or not.

Wrigley says, Vikings can approach offensive line like outside linebacker get multiple guys. Mackay Bekden apparently Mackay Bekden is going to be off the list based on the assistant offensive line coach. This is from some reports out of the Jets. The assistant offensive line coach that they hired has a bit of a questionable reputation with some players in their opinions. I mean, you can look that up if you want. I have been kind of in the tunnel of focusing on the quarterback situation, everything else. So I can't give you every single detail on the assistant offensive line coach,

but it is interesting to me. And I say interesting as in concerning that they hired someone that has a previous reputation as having been really hard on players. It doesn't really fit with the ethos of the coaching staff. And if they're hiring a hard ass because they feel like their team is soft or they're worried about that, I just think that's silly. I truly just think that's silly. What's going to determine how good you are is based on how much talent you have. It's not whether you need to be more mean to them or not.

We need to be tougher on them. No, I hope that's not it. I hope that they hired him because they think he's got a lot of acumen on that line and they feel like he'll be a good fit in their coaching staff and not to try to add some extra macho nonsense because Jonathan Grinard's a really nice person then he's unbelievable at football and so is Justin Jefferson. It has nothing to do with that with being like a meaner person so hopefully that's not it but as far as a McKay Beckton goes, it seems like he's going to be off the list because of the New York connection

there. But uh, Ryan Kelly Brady, yeah, Brady Christiansen is definitely on my radar. I actually like him. He's from Carolina and I think he was hurt though. Another, that's the thing. A lot of these guys hit after they're hurt. Uh, but you're right, Wrigley. I agree with the overall assessment. lots of good DTs in the draft DT in the draft all the money into the O line. Don't mind that at all Evan says what about taking Tate Ratledge in the third after watching DTs today? I really want to get Harmon Walter Nolan. I think Walter Nolan didn't do stuff today, but Darius Alexander

Toledo guy. Hey, you heard it here first. That was my first draft sim. Darius Alexander. I really just looked at his stats and thought they were really good. And like now he's kind of becoming a bit of a darling. CJ West from Indiana. Tyleek Williams is more of a run stuffer, but he's a huge, huge run stuffer. Could be kind of that like Vita via type. Yeah, what was the question? Oh yeah, third round guard.

Yeah, sure. I mean, if you're taking guard in the third, you probably are gonna have to develop that player, which to me says stop gap like Kevin Zeitler or Brandon Sherriff and then develop somebody to play there because we saw what happened when you just draft a guy and you throw them in there and then you play him and you play him and you play him and you're like, he's not getting better. So now what do we do? We just got to bench him and look bad. Like I think you want to have it's funny. We talk about quarterbacks as if it's the only position that should be treated this way. But I think guard should, I think guard should be the guy gets a year

unless he's super ready, super high draft pick. I think those guys need to develop. But I don't mind that plan. I kind of like running back in the third. I also would kind of like to know how many draft picks they've got before we get there. In the draft, in our draft sims, we're trading away Darnold and we're trading down,

we're getting seven, eight picks. I kind of like the look of that. But right now with only a first, a third comp pick, and then the two fifths, there's not a whole lot of wiggle room there. Because I think you want to get a running back before the fourth round. Historically, I know Aaron Jones was a fifth, but historically, there's only a handful of guys who, you know, Pacheco who have really been that fifth, sixth, seventh, but there's a lot of guys who are second and third rounders who become really good.

Camara was a third rounder. Brett says people are undervaluing Darnold. I think we could get a second and fourth out of him if nothing else, a third or fourth. We won't get a comp pick because of our free agent signings. Yeah, well, the comp pick thing, I just don't know. I just don't know. I mean, we don't know that formula for, because if they sign guys, but buying them and Murphy leave, then it might even out. That's kind of how last year went.

They signed a bunch of guys, but Hunter and cousins left. So it evened out for them to get this comp pick this year. That's, that's how, that's what you don't know. That's why you want to trade for that pick. Now, what I meant Brett, when I said a third, was that's the lowest that you can possibly take. If you get it to a bidding war, like let's say that Matthew Stafford comes out

and announces, you know what guys, I love LA, I'm staying. And they give them a bunch of money to stay well all of a sudden Oh, well, I'm the Raiders. I'm the Giants. I can't go skiing with Matthew Stafford. What are we gonna do? We got to give the Vikings a second round pick for Darnal. Okay, so if you get some hysteria But if there's only two teams and they're both offering third rounders Just take what you can get get the draft pick this year and move forward. David says, any chatter about potentially trading back?

Oh, absolutely. I mean, absolutely. This seems like the most reasonable way to approach the draft right now for the Vikings because just at least the way that I look at this draft and we're so early in the process, but we're starting to see it come together with the combine, right? That's when we start to put players into tiers.

When do we expect them to go? And I look at that back end of the first round and the early second as actually being quite strong. Does it have the next Bruce Smith, Reggie White, Deon Sanders and Brett Favre? Probably not. But it does have starting caliber potential prospects in that back end at all the positions that the Vikings need. So if you can trade back and you can get an additional third round pick or whatever it

might be, then that would benefit the Vikings greatly with their lack of draft capital. I don't think that they're falling off in a huge way from 24 to say 34 that even though those 10 players go by, how many are going to be in positions that they're not even looking at? They're not looking at wide receiver. They're not looking at quarterback. They're not looking at offensive tackle. And so if there's a bunch of those that are going to go from 24 to 34, well, it's pretty easy, right? I mean, you just move back if you can. But when we say this is the problem moving back, when we say,

well, they'll just move back. Got to have somebody move back with and it depends on who's there. If you have somebody graded in the top half of the first round who falls into that space, you just think, well, we can't trade back. And it's kind of like, I think they wanted to trade back when they drafted Jordan Addison, but that was their guy. He was on the board, go get him. And you know, you can't let that go by

because they wanted a wide receiver from that draft class. So it's all kind of how it ends up playing out on draft night, but just in general, generally overall speaking, yeah, trading back is a good idea. Quick moment of break for a ad read since the show does have sponsors. I'm very happy and proud of that.

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The voice is holding up well though, I'm happy. All right, back to your questions. Hunter says, where is the value of this free agent class? I like read, but it seems like an overall weakish free agent class Maybe it's a year to take a bigger cap hits for players under contract Yeah, so the hard thing about it is When we talk about is it strong or is it weak? We're usually factoring mostly the superstar free agent and T Higgins at this moment and Trey Smith at this

moment until the franchise tag is official. I don't think it's official yet. Those guys were the the big fish of this free agency and I think they were pretty much the only big fish of this free agency. The only guys where you went, man, if you get T Higgins, that can change your franchise. If you get Trey Smith, that can change your offensive line. But I also go through the list and I go, there's a lot of players who can help your franchise. So there might not be somebody that you individually are spending $30 million on, So there might not be somebody that you individually are spending 30 million dollars on but what if you're spending 12 million dollars?

This is kind of the Andrew Van Ginkle thing 12 million dollars a piece on five or six different players that are good fits for you where the Vikings are is and I'm not saying they don't need more megastar talent because everybody needs megastar talent because everybody needs megastar talent, but they have the players in place at the most important positions in the sport at a lot of different spots. So they have the quarterback in place. They have the number one wide receiver, maybe in the entire game, probably in place. They have a top notch left and right tackle in place. They have an edge rusher who is incredible in place

in Jonathan Grenard and also Andrew Van Ginkle is under contract as well. They've got their leader of their defense going forward which is Blake Cashman. There's a, that's a lot of foundational things to work with. And if you have those, I think we've seen that in recent years that everybody else, all boats sort of rise around it. So you get some more development out of, oh, and I should mention Hawkinson as well.

I expect him to improve next year, but it's not like he's bad. So you have one of the better tight ends of the league. And so you got Jordan Addison quality number two, you got a lot of these foundational pieces to work with who have won a lot of games for them. Now you need to hit on a defensive tackle. You need to find corners. You need to find guards. But even if you don't get, if there's not Jalen Ramsey, who's out there, which he's not for them to acquire.

But if you have good players at those positions, I think a lot of times in the NFL and this is the Philadelphia Eagles, everyone's making it about their guard and their defensive tackle. But when I looked at their roster, I thought they don't have a weakness. It's not like they have a megastar at every single position. Reed Blankenship is not a megastar, but it's pretty good. It's pretty good. Even Mackay Becton was not a megastar, but it's pretty good. It's pretty good. Even Mackay Beckton was not a superstar at right guard.

Pretty good. And I think that that's something the Vikings have to really put a lot of emphasis in for this free agent class is if you have an above average guy at every other position and then you have those megastars like Grenard, Darasaw and Jefferson in place then you got your quarterback here I think that gives you a chance to compete with just about anybody so that's the type of player they can look for and that's like a Carlton Davis or what right or a DJ Reid those guys are not Patrick Sertan they're not winning MVP

but they're pretty darn good. And DJ Reed was a part of a ton of good defenses as one of the top corners, both in San Francisco and with the New York Jets. So when there's that kind of guy everywhere on your roster above average, and then you have your superstars, that's what you're trying to look to chase down. Uh, Enigma says, will fries had overall PFF grade of 86.9. Excellent run blocker, uh, well above average. He broke his leg. We 26.

Yeah. The thing about that PFF grade is that it's in like 200 something snaps and his bigger PFF grade from the year before was in the sixties. That's why I would, I would want to use the larger sample as he is someone who's come along, but there's not a lot of examples of him being like a needle mover. Now, what I take him as as an above average player who could be ascending, as you mentioned, because he's 26.

Yes. Oh, of course, he's on the list. But that tiny sample of playing really well, I wouldn't make that my expectation for him. And I also wouldn't make that my price for him. Jax Park says, have you heard of the rift between Keith Carter? This is the assistant offensive line coach and Mackay Bekden is so bad

that it would take Bekden off the list. Yes, I mean, I've seen that. I've seen that said. I don't know. Mackay Bekden. I haven't asked Mackay Bekden if it would take him off the list. But if there's a rift between him and this guy, then yeah, I would not expect him to sign here. And I saw Taylor LeWan said something about it.

It's it is a little concerning. It is a little concerning because the Vikings, the best thing they have going for them other than having Justin Jefferson and like a quarterback on rookie contract and you know, all that is their franchise culture. Their franchise culture is so fantastic that everyone wants to be here. And you're introducing someone to the environment with at least discussion in the past of players not wanting to work with that person. That's not something the Vikings have on their staff.

You go through guy by guy, the coaching staff, I mean, look at someone like Keenan McCardell. Justin Jefferson went to Kevin O'Connell after Mike Zimmer was fired to don't get rid of Keenan McCardell. Like that's how much that guy's loved. And I think you could tell the appreciation. And some people have asked me, should they get rid of Chris Cooper? And I'm like, I think they've, I mean, last year overall, they were maybe the 15th best line by PFF, which is better than their talent suggested

after Darasaw went down. So I've had no real problem with him. Maybe I would have changed run game coordinator or, you know, put a little more emphasis into something like that. But even then, the relationships have been very strong. You'd like it to stay that way. I don't know that it's not going to go that way. But if there's evidence in the past that he hasn't gotten along with some players, then that's a little bit of a concern. Uh, Matthew just says, gray's able.

I agree. Gray's able is a potential option for them at guard North Dakota state guy. Some of those guys have worked out. I do think that would take a little more development. That's what I'm talking about with the development for the guards that they bring in unless it's the first rounder if it's a third rounder then you want that guy to have an opportunity to show you what he can be and to grow rather than throwing him into the fire like they have with so many other guys and it hasn't worked out.

Let's see. Anyone want to trade an offensive lineman for Sam Darnold? No one wants to trade an offensive lineman. I can tell you that. No one wants to trade an offensive lineman. Wrigley says DJ Reed gave up on his team. Well, who was his team? The Jets?

I'm not too judgy with that. Everybody else gave up on that team too. They were the one team that graded an F in ownership. Enigma says, I'd say get Holland from Miami to fill the safety spot. Crafty and the best player drafted by Flores. I love that idea, I really do. Even if they were to keep Cam buying them buying the safety spot is so important in this defense that spending a ton of money on it's not crazy because they do so much with the safety spot. What you seen it with the tell us and with harrison smith and smith's up the line and then he's back and he's making all these calls and changing coverages and all those things. Holland's a difference maker and if they could bring him in if he's got a good

relationship with Flores then that is the type of guy that I would be looking for. Absolutely. But PFF projected him to get 19 mil a year which is a lot for safety. Matt says Drew Dahlman and Kevin Zeitler no need to panic. Dahlman and Zeitler are more reasonable and good quality players to go after. Trey Smith being gone, meh, don't care much. Oh, Matt, you say you don't care that much, but if Trey Smith signed here, you would have lost it. You would have loved it. You would have bought a Trey Smith jersey, got a Trey Smith tattoo. You would have spray painted, welcome Trey Smith on your house.

I see your point, I see your point. Dahlman is a real run blocking guy, not as much on the pass blocking side. And that was something that I was talking with Brandon Thorn, offensive line expert about the other day. And he felt like with Garrett Bradbury, it's going to be hard to find a big improvement in terms of pass blocking, even though we all know that he's not an above average pass blocker.

So I have been kind of thinking about that. Um, is like, is Drew Dahlman going to be that big of an improvement? Maybe in the run game in the run game, they need to be better, but, uh, maybe he could play guard. I don't know, but Zeitler is definitely an option. Uh, there's a few of them. Fry's has been brought up. I think that it's fine to put money into multiple guys and not have your heart broken because Trey Smith is not here. Matt says, any steam on this Ty Robinson kid as a DT? Seemed like he tested really well and had seven sacks last year, but he was ranked last on PFF's big board at DT. So is he the one that had the crazy jump?

Was he the one that had the crazy jump? Oh yeah, yeah, right. He is right. Yeah. He's the guy that had the insane jump and also a wild 40 time or a really good 40 time for his size. So guys like that to me are always worth the later round draft pick where you cannot believe the way that they performed at the combine, but they might not have an NFL caliber skillset. So maybe could you develop something? But we've also seen the Vikings go after that type of player. Now if you had seven sacks, then you got my attention, but I've also seen the Vikings go after that type of player. Now, if you had seven sacks, then you've got my attention, but I'm definitely not drafting somebody off of a high jump and off of a 40, uh, because I've just seen

too many times where the Vikings were like, he's going to be the next to Neil Hunter and it just doesn't work that way. You can develop guys from the DT spot and, and rusher, but I've also really come to feel like if you wanna get a good one, they have to be massive, they have to be freakish, but they also have to be smart and skilled. That DT position is a very detailed position that also requires you to be extremely technical

in a very, very short amount of time. That ball is snapped and you gotta be in the right spot in an eye blink. There's no defensive end. I'm going to put on a swim move and I'm going to like create some space. It's like you snap and you go. And so you have to understand exactly

what you're supposed to do on every play. You have to have a lot of skill. The hands are really important. We don't give those guys enough credit for that stuff. We always go there. He's a freak. It's like, ah, well, it's also a technical freak as well If that guy's not that then you know, I don't know maybe it's a later round pick

But maybe maybe he is I haven't really seen him play. I saw in Nebraska a couple times, but you know, he didn't pop to me Jack's Park the last Pro Bowl made by the Vikingsikings drafted interior linings randall mcdaniel twenty six years ago. It's been so bad dude it's been so bad. I mean why is it been so bad and a lot of it is because it's always been the same story move a tackle to guard. story, move a tackle to guard, try to develop some rando, take a fourth rounder. And they did try a second rounder with Ingram and a second rounder with Cleveland. Although I always thought why not ever try as her Cleveland to tackle, but they end up with Christian Daris also all's well that ends well there. It's just, you know, when it comes to, uh, that position, it feels like the one thing

that they haven't tried is Really bringing in somebody who's a big-time free agent now Alex Boone was close to that in 2016 and if you look at his numbers now you go back Alex Boone was considered a bus signing for the Vikings go back and look at his pressure numbers a lot I think he allowed like 20 pressures or something that year and Their guards ever since have allowed double and Josh Klein was kind of a big signing, but not really. They haven't really invested what they need to invest in that guard position, but that's a crazy stat, man.

That is a crazy stat. Nathan's variety hours. Is there any player you'd realistically trade up for like we did with Turner last year? The one player and I was listening to him talk today at the combine is Will Johnson is somewhat interesting to me because Will Johnson last year, like going into 2024 was considered like this is going to be the guy's going to be top three corner off the board, top 10 draft pick he's lanky. He's a playmaker

He's got everything and then he got the injury and it feels like the buzz has died down for him a little bit and in Past years even like Terry and Arnold Joey Porter jr We've seen some of these corners drop into the late first round So, I don't know maybe will Johnson will drop but if they thought this is a player if he gets to number 20 That we have to go get no matter what, because he's a top 10 player on our board, that would be someone I might look at, but there's so many defensive tackles. It has to be in a scarce position because there's so many defensive tackles that

you're just going to wait for your guy. There's at least another guy around the corner. Maybe if it was a guard, but you're not trading up for a guard, that would be, remember when the Jets did that for Elijah Vera Tucker? Very questionable to trade up for a guard. So no, I have a tough time thinking that that would be something they'd do

unless it was for the cornerback position. It was the one guy that they really wanted, and that was the apple of their eye, but I don't know if that's the main position they're looking at. Uh, fake ninja something, uh, shopping the value and budget aisle for guards is what the Vikings have done for 15 years. So I don't think that people are saying that are okay with them not getting

traced Smith. I don't think anyone's saying that it's the, you're shopping in the budget aisle. It's that you're shopping in the next tier down, the quality starter aisle. That's what Will Fries is. That's what Kevin Zeitler is. That's what Brand Schrift is. I've been mentioning their names

because they're sort of at the top of my mind, but there's probably seven to 10 of those. If Jonah Jackson hits the market, seven to 10 of those guys who are just quality guards that could start for you that are going to be a lot better than Blake Brandle. That's what you're really looking for. You're not looking for the bargain bid,

not this time around. Tyler says, minus Smith and Bechtin, Fry's is the last above average right guard in free agency. You mentioned that Fry's likely to be overpaid. If you're Minnesota, would you be willing to overpay him? Yeah, I think you would be willing to be overpaying him. Maybe like 15 million or 14 million, something like that. Let me pull up the list.

I have the list in front of me, free agents. And what is, let's see. Because, okay, McCarrie is also another guy that we need to talk about because he is listed on overthecap.com, Patrick McCarrie from the Ravens. He's listed as a tackle, but he's played guard plenty in his career and that's really what he actually is. So let me look at the guards here again

for the thousandth time. So I've got a more in my head. Sheriff is definitely one of them. Aaron Banks from the 49ers is a physical player. Tevin Jenkins is an above average player. Lucas Patrick is kind of a long time, just a guy type of starter. And then Brady Christiansen has been injured, but has been a good player. Will Hernandez, Will Fries.

So these are all guys and James Daniels, all guys. Daniels got a pretty bad injury that could have potential to be and Jonah Jackson if he gets released. I would say average to above average starters. Matt Pryor from the Bears had a good season last year overall. There's enough that you could make an argument for getting two of them and putting together a pretty solid line because it's usually about the weak links and they've just had weak links everywhere on the interior.

But fries is the top guy. So I think you would be willing to go somewhere in the 15 range. I wouldn't go in the Robert hunt 20 range. That seems like too much. Wade says, Matt, did you sense an impact on the free agent market when the new cap number was announced? Yes and no.

I mean, I think it has some impact, but I don't think that all of a sudden everyone said, oh wow, like now we've got so much money because everybody else got more money and it does even things out But it does also make some situations a little easier to afford players that you have already It makes certain big contracts look a little better a little more manageable to the future So I think there's some impact but it's not

giganto Macho Beach did you run into the legend Chris Thomas and the combine? Yes, I had a. I had a milkshake with Chris Thomas and last night. Yep, steak and shake in Indianapolis went over there and reminisced about our old memories covering the team together. Yep, that's pretty good time. Chris is doing well covering the team together. Yep, that was pretty good time. Chris is doing well covering the Denver Broncos.

Nano Joe says how risky is it to move back and lose out on one of the better D line or O line? That's hard to figure out because it depends on what positions they're expecting the other teams to take. One thing that I've learned over the years is that teams know where guys are going really well. They really have a good sense for what other teams are doing much better than the mock draft community.

They really have a strong sense for which teams are targeting which players. So they should have an idea by the time they get to the draft. Is there going to be tackles? Is there going to be wide receivers who are taken in those spots to where they weren't going to target them anyway? Now if it's for example, just right now the only guard the only pure guard that we're talking about and Grey's able might Be considered this. I don't know how they look at Grey's able but just follow with me. There's really only Tyler Booker that's a pure

guard. That's all he plays his guard. And he's the only, like, he's the only one who's considered to be that back end of the first round type of pick. If that's the guy you really want, you really need then go for it. But you know, if you listen to Chris Trapasso from CBS sports, when we talked about the guard position, he thinks there's a few tackles that will play guard in the NFL. He likes the guy Jackson from Ohio State who played more guard this year and is listed as a tackle by PFF, but is more of a guard. Zable I think is listed as a tackle, but he's more of a guard. So maybe there are more options of players that they like. The risk just varies. As far as if you're talking about historically. I have always felt and trust me every analysis ever the of the draft finds that the number one pick is more valuable than number two which is more valuable than number three and four but i always have thought of it in tears as in the first five pics. These guys have the by far run away the best chance to become hall of famers and

then the next level down you your expectation is stars potential pro bowlers that's the ceiling on those players you get past that you're looking for starters good players maybe one of them hits if you look at most drafts from 15 to 30 it's starters it's not anywhere near the number of superstars as it is at the very top. But I also think from somewhere in that 25 range, 24, to the early second round is very similar. And it's all about some teams take high ceiling guys,

some teams take players that are considered lower ceiling, but a higher hit rate, and it's all dependent on need. So there's a lot of moving parts there. In general, though, I think it's the best place in the entire draft to move back is from 24 to 35, somewhere in that range. So I would not be that afraid of the risk, especially when you'd be happy with three or four different positions. You'd be happy with Booker.

You'd be happy with Harmon. You'd be happy with Will Johnson if he falls or the next best corner. If that's the case, if you have even grades on those guys, then that's when you do it. Jax Park, the interior O-line is such a weak link that I wouldn't be opposed to trading back to the second round to take two interior offensive linemen

in the first three picks. Yeah, I mean, I get where you're coming from. With that, like there's so much desperation from Vikings fans and probably 15 to 18 other fan bases in the league to get better guards. One thing is they need to work around it better. There's the guards are gonna get beat no matter who you have.

But another thing is finding fit. I think it's a numbers game as well. I mean, I don't know about spending all your draft picks on it when you've got these other needs, but as far as, okay, sign one guy who's considered a big fish and then two more guys that can compete for the job and then draft a guy in the third round and just throw numbers at that position and see what sticks because I think it's a hard thing to figure out in free agency, in the draft. You're taking Ed Ingram, you're hope,

you're taking Ezra Cleveland, you're hope. It just doesn't work out. But the thing about offensive line is in the draft, and this is why it's so risky to draft a guard. I think it's risky to draft a guard is and tackle to off its lines risky. Because if you draft a wide receiver and he's not that good, you can play him in a part-time role and then take him off the field and you're going to have a pretty good sense very fast what he can do, where he can fit in your offense

with offensive linemen. They need so much development and it's so much harder to play in the NFL that you can't bring them along slowly. You have to play them every single snap. I mean, some people have asked, could you rotate? Like, no, you really can't because your offense stays out there. And yeah, I mean, you just can't have fat guys

running in and off the field all the time. Your offensive line has to have continuity, communication, all those things. If you have a bad but developing guard who you're not sure will ever become good, you just keep getting beat every week until what happens. Like that's the Ed Ingram conundrum. It's like he had enough talent to be on the field,

but was not consistent enough to be good. And they just had to keep playing him to find out. And they kept getting beat and Kirk Cousins' ribs get cracked. And what I was like, what are we doing here? But that's the fear about drafting them. I think versus if you go into free agency and you get one in a free agent, it's still got unpredictability, but you have a big sample of that guy playing in the league. You know what he can do.

Uh, Tyler says, uh, part commander's question has Jonathan Allen generated trade interests at the combine, or is it more likely gets cut with the Vikings be interested in signing a 30 year old pass rushing interior D line. So his recent history is not great. Uh, he had a three year run where he was one of the best players in the league. And I mean, at that position, just a dominant pass rusher, top 20 in pressures every year, high PFF grades. But then in 2023, his grades for his all around game really sunk, but he

was still good at pass rushing. The last year he gets hurt. If they cut him and the Vikings came in at one year, seven million, like a Marcus Davenport type of deal. Okay, that's fine. That's totally fine. But his current contract, I don't think anybody's trading for that. I do not think that anybody is trading for that at all. I mean, maybe they will, but I would be very surprised when I looked at his contract. I was like, no, I really don't think that anybody is going to actually make that deal.

Uh, some of you mentioning Matt Burke made the Pro Bowl. Yeah. I thought he said guard, but maybe he said interior offensive line either way. We all know they didn't have too much, uh, in recent years. No Willie Beavers. Yeah. Oli Udo Ingram Dakota Dozier Tom Compton Drew Samia it has just been miserable miserable

Not now says have you ever seen a team's draft board to see how they do so the Dallas Cowboys had a run of years Where they accidentally tweeted out their draft board. So I've seen that I Cannot say the Vikings have ever shown us their draft board. I definitely definitely have not ever seen theirs But the Dallas Cowboys on several different occasions either accidentally or accidentally on purpose tweeted out their draft board in the background of pictures and stuff and as far as how they do Here's what I do know from just knowing people. Maybe I should keep up the bit. If you guys watched any of the videos from the combine, I kept leaning in and saying in the league every time I talked to somebody in the league.

So maybe I should keep that up. But when I've talked to people in the league about the success or failure of scouts. The thing about scouting and draft boards and all that is, well, they're not trying to necessarily pick out. These players will work for whatever other team. They only do a draft board for themselves. And in a lot of instances, teams don't have 400 players up on the draft board. They have here's players that were interested in this spot that we have whittled down this whole group that we think could be worth that pick and that could be a fit.

And then we have in our next pick and then our next pick and the UDF phase and here's the bunch and then a lot of times around the NFL, they will have the scouts say, Hey, this is the guy that I liked the most for day three. This is my one guy I'd like to see you pick. And they'll pick the guy that your scouts like. So as far as how accurate it is in terms of who works out, they don't make the draft board like a draft analyst who's trying to figure out who's going to work out.

They make it for themselves. Cory says, how much do you think the hire of Keith Carter impacts the O-line decision to come or to avoid to Minnesota? I guess we're going to find out. I don't want to say based on just reports from what's come out of the Jets that it's a bad person. It's someone who's going to ruin their culture and whatever else. What I would say is that when there are things that are said about someone from the past in multiple different spots, you do wonder if that reputation is going to matter. I don't think there's enough evidence to say, well, this guy is going to keep everybody I don't think there's enough evidence to say, well, this guy is going to

keep everybody from signing here. But if he keeps one player from signing here because of reputation, then what a mistake that that was, uh, in terms of hiring him. But he's been in the league and he's worked with teams like Tennessee that had good running games. And sometimes things don't work out between one player and one coach. But, uh, so I don't want to, I don't want to dismiss it, uh, because there is things that are out there, but I also don't want to say, yeah, this assistant O line coach is going to destroy everything that the Vikings have built, you know, like let's not, uh, go too far with that JP. So we're, we're going to see how it plays out, but if we hear that, if that comes out, then it's a major problem.

If it comes out, if we hear that certain guys aren't considering Minnesota because of their assistant offensive line coach, then what are you doing? But we don't really know that it might just be conflicts with certain players. I don't know. That happens. JP says, Drew Dahlman should be our top priority if he hits free agency. Run blocker could be a game changer in the run blocking. They kind of already have a run blocking center, but he's not an impose your will guy.

Like I think Dahlman is more of that type of range. They need difference makers in the run game as much as they need pass protectors, maybe even a little more so, because they were so bad at that spot. So yeah, I mean, that's another name that gets thrown out there that's not Trey Smith.

That could be an improvement. Tyler, did you get the sense of the combine from that the Vikings coaches and execs are higher on Dwight McClother and Levi Drake Rodriguez or Michael Juergens than the fan base? That did not come up. That did uh, that did not come up. That did. Those guys did not come up in the conversations at the combine because

those are the last players on the roster at this point, but just in general, when you have UDF, a seventh round or seventh rounder, those players aren't part of any discussion. They're, they're just not. And if they pop and they become great, well, then that's amazing. If Josh Mattel is as a six round draft pick, if that player suddenly arrives at your doorstep and he can play or an Ivan pace, well, that's fantastic. But when you're talking about like, 7th rounders that you drafted and started to develop last year,

they're just not. You're not going to say like, oh well, we don't need to sign a corner. Cause this UDFA we saw a little in camp will be fine. Like that's just not going to work that way. Those guys are bonuses. They're not players that you really treat as foundational, unless they've shown it. Evan says, should they move Walter Rouse to guard? I believe they should. I believe they should cross

train him as a swing type of player, but I do think they should start training him as a guard and then see if they've got something there because more likely than not there's going to be some one-year deals here. It's like maybe you sign Will Fries for multi-year deal, but you know, when it comes to the other position, maybe you need to sign somebody for one year and have a development option behind it. But I, Rouse ain't playing left tackle and he's talented. I really liked what I saw from him in pass protection

last year at tackle. So I think they should do that. Nathan's variety hour says, "'I don't know why it's so hard for Quacey in the draft. "'My PFF mock draft sims. "'I always end up with plenty of pics.'" You're right about that. And, you know, I will say,

I'm just saying that in 2020, I think that was when PFF built its mock draft simulator. Uh, I did one live on the radio back when I used to have a radio job. And I got Michael Pittman Jr. and Jalen Hertz and also Xavier McKinney in the same draft. So, but I didn't pick Justin Jefferson because the PFF simulator didn't think he was going to drop. I would have pick Justin Jefferson because the PFF simulator didn't think he was going to drop. I would have picked Justin Jefferson.

Um, so, uh, yeah, as far as, uh, Searles goes, Jeremiah Searles, we are going to do a show soon. Uh, when the combine is all completed, we're going to do like a combine recap. All right. Let's bring in to the show, especially because my voice is failing now and I need some diet Dr. Pepper, but also he's prepared some great stuff. Our intern at Penn, Claypatchry, Clay's Corner. We wrap up every live show now with Clay's five headlines.

Some people said they're more like questions and not as much headline. Don't worry about it. It's just five things that clay the intern prepared for me. So how are you clay? I'm good. It's nice to be back after a small break, but I'm excited to get into these headlines. And the first one I have for you is about the NFL PA team report cards.

Obviously those were released. What were the biggest things that stuck out to you about these grades? And what category would you like to see them add to it? Also, if you want to keep asking questions, you can I'll jump in and answer questions as well as Clay's headlines because I just do everything around here, Clay. Yeah, I mean, Monday, I'm just grinding out at restaurants talking to people and you just just like doing your homework on Monday. So

anyway, doing my homework, just just just trying to graduate from an Ivy League school like a dweeb as opposed to as opposed to grinding football like me. So the NFLPA survey has been transformational for people like myself because you try to take the temperature of the franchise. You try to get a sense for how good is the culture? How well is the coach leading the franchise? How good is the ownership? What should we really think? But when somebody comes out there

and does an anonymous survey with the players and just tells you everything. It is so enlightening. And the Gazinkad brings up that the Bengals got a minus for the handling of players. I was like, what do they do to those people to get an F minus because the Vikings got an A plus for their handling of families, which of course will be something that's attractive to potential free agents. I think that's been big for the Vikings. In fact, I think it's been huge for the Vikings because it's right there on paper now.

I mean, yeah, OK, you can text your buddy, hey, what's it like to play for the Vikings? You might say, I like it. But now you go there. Players all voted anonymously and some of them. And you might think, well, the players, they don't want to criticize their ownership or so. Oh no, there's owners getting Fs. There's owners getting Ds. There's there's leadership. The Cardinals are a disaster in this type of thing. And so I think it's really kind of been a reputation meter. But for me,

it's also been I'm just really fascinated by what these players think of their teams. What did did you look through it? Did you have any that stood out to you? I mean the the the Bengals one is hysterical. I mean, what do they they make them walk through shards of glass to get to the stadium? What do you got to do to get an F minus?

Yeah, I don't know what they're doing over there in Cincinnati, but something else that I saw funny was seeing the Cowboys get an A grade for their head coach. And a lot of it was because of the players buying into Mike McCarthy and everything he's doing. And then Jerry Jones went and let him go. And it's kind of just funny to see how that works out. And then hit Jerry Jones.

Well, Cowboys ownership got a B grade. And that was shocking to me because he's out here blinding his own players for aesthetic purposes and then always is in the media saying something. So I know if I played for him, I would be sick of him. So I'm shocked he got a B, but something else that stood out to me were the Dolphins. They've been first in this list seven out of like out of eleven times.

And I'm wondering where they're going to turn them into wins. It's like if the players believe that they have everything in place to to put their best out onto the field, like what's holding them back? Well, you know, to keeps getting hurt, I think is probably a main part of it. It doesn't matter how nice your franchise is. If your quarterback gets injured, I think to and his actual talent should be a lot more respected after watching backups go in there and struggle and struggle and struggle.

It's not like anybody can go in there like kind of it was in San Francisco with Jimmy Garoppolo to Brock Purdy and so forth. And even Darnold played well for San Francisco, but it's a little different there with Miami. I mean, I think with something like that, you're right that you do wonder, like, hey, your culture is so great or teams that cultures are apparently bad. They keep winning. How about the Steelers getting a D for ownership? I was really shocked by that because they're always held up as like these are the Steelers owners. They are they go back to the time that a football was invented

and yet they're not really impressing the people in the locker room. I had the same thought about McCarthy that the players must have appreciated the way he dealt with all the adversity from last year. The Cowboys got all their defensive players hurt right off the bat. And if you take Trayvon Diggs and Micah Parsons off of a defense, you're probably not going to be as good. Maybe some of them just felt bad for him because it's not fair the way that he was treated.

And I've also had what I did a one time just kind of for fun, like a coach ranking of, or somebody asked on a mailbag, how would you rank the coaches? And I thought, well, it's kind of hard to do just number one through 32 with coach rankings. So let me kind of put them in. Here's the hall of fame legends that everyone would take. Here's the up and comers I think are really good.

And I had to put McCarthy in his own tier because I can never figure out. I mean, the guy has won so much in his career. His winning percentage is fantastic. He's got a Super Bowl, all that stuff. And yet people think he's like a buffoon and it's always been odd that way. And then he does kind of buffoonish things sometimes. Players do seem to like, I don't know.

It's a little weird, but it is fascinating. You could spend all day breaking down this NFLPA thing. Question from Steve about Quacy and the contract thing. The best I could do for you there is just to say that there was nothing enlightening about his contract situation. That's the best I can do. There were things that were a little bit different

at the combine than they were before, and I don't want to get into it. But just in terms of availability and stuff like that. So I did not get anything new for you and I'm sure you would have seen it from other reporters if it was out there about quasi-daful Mensa's contract. I did say if there's nothing by the combine, I will scratch my head. I am scratching my head. I am. I don't know what's happening there and if it means something or not. I mean, they've got a long time to negotiate the contract.

He's still under contract. It's not like they have to get it done or he leaves. But when Schefter reports that they're working on it and then it doesn't happen quickly, it's a bit strange or he might have it done and just not be telling anyone because they don't have to announce it. So I really don't know. I really don't have a good answer for you there.

It's going to be a question. I'm sure all the time on the show from fans until it gets done and I'll do my best, but I I had kind of thought like they were just it was going to be something all the time on the show from fans until it gets done. And I'll do my best. But I I had kind of thought like they were just it was going to be something that was announced at the combine or whatever. Or we would get an answer. But unfortunately, I apologize. There is no answer.

What else you got, Clay? Yeah. So for my second question, it's been reported that the NFL or a team in the NFL is trying to ban the touch push officially. And I know this conversation has been going on for years now. But what are your thoughts about the play and then the mentality about the team

who wants to play band? OK, Clay, it's not just a team. It's the Packers. So what we need, I didn't want to speculate, but well, I did come out that. Oh, OK. OK. OK. We need to do is make fun of them for sure. Yeah. Come on, Pack.

Oh, you can't run your power toss. Vince Lombardi. Sorry. What was it? What is the famous player? It's something like that lead toss. What? No, no, no. Vince Lombardi, it was working too good. You know what they should have banned?

Frickin Rogers when he was so good. Rogers, he's throwing, he's throwing it too fast. Rogers is throwing it too fast. That's not allowed. You got to cut that out, Rogers. I mean, Reggie White, Reggie White was just throwing people. Well, they get that off the field. Come on, Packers.

The Packers have had all sorts of things that in the past have worked really well for them. And no one ever asked to ban them. Sorry that it works for the Eagles. But here's what about that why I could never argue for banning it. It doesn't work for everybody else. QB sneaks have always worked. I did a story. It's one of my favorite.

Settle in. I'll tell you a little story, Clay. One of my favorite articles that I ever wrote was about quarterback sneaks in 2018. Because the Vikings were gonna play the Patriots, and the Patriots had this unbelievable record of QB sneaks. They did it the exact opposite. So the Eagles load up everybody,

the Patriots spread it out. You can go back and look at Tom Brady. If you go to YouTube and like Tom Brady rushing touchdowns, you'll see them do this. They'd get to the goal line and they'd put five guys out and then just run a sneak. So everybody spread out and there's no one in the box. They just run a sneak and score.

So we used to have these conference calls with the opposing coach where the media would just get on the phone with Bill Belichick or McCarthy or whoever else, and just ask them questions. And so me thinking Belichick is kind of famous for loving to get in the weeds with random stuff, right? So I thought I'm going to write about this incredible record of their QB sneaks. And I asked Belichick, I was like, you just, you know, you convert them, it's such a high percentage, like, what's the difference? What's the key to that?

And he just goes, execution. And then it was dead silence for like 45 seconds and no one said anything. It was just like, is he gonna, should we give him a minute? And he said something else after that, like even he got awkward and said something else. But the only thing I included in the story was that Bill Belichick said execution as far as what, what.

But look, the Bills tried it and they didn't get it. And so I just, yeah, that's funny, Matt. It should be illegal for Antonio Freeman to catch it off of somebody's back. So, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I think it's soft from the Packers and you always have the option of stopping it. The one thing they have to make sure they do is the Eagles, I think, just grab people down there. And I also there was a story Kaelin Kaelor did about how Jason Kelsey, he was doing it he would take the ball and he would move it forward and Then it was like wait a minute now that I think they need to litigate it a little more from a referee standpoint of

What they're actually doing down there, and are they jumping offside are they actually going before the snap and all that stuff, but? Yeah, I just I think they should ban Josh Allen because too hard to sack. Just come on, man. It's just so freaking weak. And as far as the, the quasi extension thing, I just like, there's a bunch of different ways we could speculate and I just don't know.

And I'll do my best. I don't want to throw a bunch of stuff out there and then have it not be right. So I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens. But that's that's my take on it, Clay. I think that the Packers are being soft, kind of embarrassing themselves. And I'm sure they didn't want that. Get now who the team was that was trying to do it.

It's like, oh, you're not you're not Packery enough, huh? Too soft, like a little like a little melted piece of cheese in the middle. Is that your problem? Yeah, the Packers definitely need a man up like you had 30 years of top tier quarterback play and all of a sudden you're you're finally the division caught up to you and now you're looking to complain about something else. And it's just frustrating coming from them. And I think if you don't love the touch push,

you can't say you love football. It is punch you in your mouth. Everyone in the stadium knows what you're about to run and it still doesn't matter. And it's one of my favorite plays of football, seeing no receivers out there actually, except to push the quarterback. So I think it's great.

Packers get over it. I just like in general innovation in football and it's funny that it's great. Packers get over it. I just I just like in general innovation in football. And it's funny that it's not innovative. It's something they would have done in 1920. But even then, the fact that they can, as you mentioned, like this at the heart of this sport is we're moving the ball forward 10 yards at a time. And if that's how you can do it, then that's how you do it.

That there's nothing that you can find football thaty that they're doing illegal on that play, except for at one time, you weren't able to push the person from behind, I think, in the NFL. That that was a rule at one time, but now you are able to do it. So maybe if they said you're not able to do that anymore, I guess I would understand, but it just seems like everyone's just mad

that Philly's doing it better. And at some point they won't. Like at some point they'll have people injured or their guys will get older. You know, I don't know. So anyway, okay, what's next? Yeah, while we're on the Packers, they're reportedly open to trading Jair Alexander. And this adds his name to a long list of superstars who are expected to be moved this off season. If you could trade for one superstar on the market right now and add them to the Vikings, who would it be? But you can't say Miles Garrett. Yeah, obviously, Miles Garrett would be number one. So who's our list? Let's see. You got now I would be intrigued by and I'm assuming that we're

just throwing salary cap out of the just don't even worry about that part of it. I would be intrigued by, and I'm assuming that we're just throwing salary cap out of the, just don't even worry about that part of it. I would be intrigued by Debo Samuel on the Vikings, because as good as they are at number one and two wide receiver, they're not that good at number three wide receiver. Jalen Naylor had a nice year. He kind of had the year that they were waiting for, which was him as a downfield threat.

But the thing that they're really missing is somebody to just get the ball quickly too, who can break tackles and make plays. Now, there's a bunch of nuances there. There's his contract. There's the fact that Debo Samuel would not be happy being wide receiver three. He was already really teed about being wide receiver two

to Brandon Iuke, it seemed, after I passed him, but and he's probably broken and he's not what he was a couple of years ago when he was all pro all of that aside if this is a philosophical question, the type of player that I would most want is that because I think that that quick game element the yards after catch is something that this team is really missing. Who's your guy? Yeah, it's funny that you went with Debo

because I went with Cooper Cup because I kind of had the same thoughts about Jettas and then Addison being one of my favorite top duos in the league. But like you said, the three was kind of lacking. And especially if JJ McCarthy is starting next year, it would be great to have the security blanket like cup for him in his first year.

It's kind of like what the Bears did with Keenan Allen. It didn't work out for them. He kind of looked like a shell of himself and I don't know if it was scheme or what happened there, but it didn't go as they planned. But I think this move could definitely be what they intended, what the Bears intended to do, but better. I think I know the difference between Keenan Allen with Justin

Herbert and Keenan Allen with the quarterback who was getting sacked every time he was open. But Keenan Allen is it and and Cooper Cup are the exact type of example here of someone who could just add this extra layer. I think about every old wide receiver gets this comparison, but Anquan Bolden at the end of his career as a possession guy underneath was really good. Steven brings up T Higgins. Yeah, I mean, I guess he's, I don't know if he's on the list though.

I think the Bengals are just gonna keep him, but I know what you're saying there. He's the best player. But as you're talking about guys where teams have given him permission to seek a trade and things like that, there's like this whole list now and which one would you like? But Cooper Cup, yeah, and Ryan says,

Debo's not as good as you think. I'm not saying that he is now. I'm saying that stylistically, if you could just with no context whatsoever, without the health part, without the contract, you could just with no context whatsoever, without the health part, without the contract, you could just bring him in. Can we do a podcast without you getting arrested or without some Billy, baby? I just where is this college?

This this pen? Anyway, so but all I mean, that's why that's why I, like I get all the reasons you wouldn't do that. But if you were telling me the type of player, that's who I would go with. But yeah, with Cooper Cup, here's the other thing. They don't have any receiver who could block somebody. And Jefferson, I know Ken, but you really don't want him doing it a ton.

You would like to be able to throw a screen and have somebody lay a block. Cause the number of times they would throw a wide receiver screen and the other wide receiver would miss the block and he just does nothing. So a little bit of grit, a little bit of yak, a little bit of broken tackle ability. I think that would be very helpful to this Vikings offense. Yeah. Do you think Jair like take all like I know they're in conference and all that but take that out of the picture. Do you think he would be a good addition, especially if they can lock up by a Murphy

on the other side, but not overpay for him? Jair, I think pen is short for penitentiary is what somebody says. Pretty good. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. They said you went to pen, but maybe that's what clarify. Yeah, maybe that's a good, because Zink has a good question here, which is when dogs bark for my guests in the background, they have to make a dog pun. But what can we do for sirens for you? We're going to have to figure that out. What what we can do for you there.

I have zero interest in Jair Alexander. He has played so little football. He seems to be problematic for those sirens are from the Eagles fans. Still getting arrested is very funny. That's, I think, I think what we could do is just have the listeners make fun of you. I'm okay with that.

Jair, he just not, Jair's just not the same guy. From three, four years ago, it's a hard pass for me because not only is he not on the field much, but he also seems to be problematic for his franchise hard pass. I'm going to go with a no. Yeah, when he ran out for the coin toss, even though he wasn't a captain, it's like, what are you doing? He's clearly.

Yes, he's a very talented football player or maybe was a very talented football player, but you could tell he's not one of those guys that are like focused about being one of the greats or stuff like that. And those are the kind of guys I want on my team or kind of a me first. It was that running out. I don't know if you watch the office, but the Dwight Shrewt Malfeasance for Malfeasance sake, that's what that was. That was just, that was just intentional to cause problems. And that's what we were talking about earlier

with this assistant offensive line coach, where you go, you're bringing in somebody that might not fit the culture that's always gonna set up something up the flag for me or up the pole for me of a little bit of a, that's the totally wrong saying, what am I thinking of? It's gonna set off some alarm bells for me. The same thing if they sign somebody like Jair Alexander, like I just

Matthew Stafford for one year. Yeah, I guess he is included in this. That's it is a question. Would you rather have Stafford for one year or just J.J. McCarthy? Stafford is old, but he also is still pretty good. I think I would rather keep Stafford or just have darn or keep Donald or. Yeah. It's probably overrating Stafford to be honest, but

I still would probably take a swing with Stafford. I would take that. I would take one. If you told me that no strings, it's not realistic. The same with Debo is like, this isn't realistic. This is philosophical that I can get Stafford just for one year. Then McCarthy starts the rest of his career. I'd be like. All right, I might do that. He's one of those guys where if

he gets in the playoffs, he could win every game and to have a quarterback like that on your team. It's it's huge, especially with the roster that the Vikings have right now. So yeah, in a completely hypothetical world, I would like to see that. But for for my for my next headline, every year we see certain top prospects abstain from competing at the combine. How do you feel about this and the players that decide not to show off their talents? Soft, undraftable.

No, it's it. This is a player to player type of decision. If you go to the combine and you are injured and trying to grind through just to be at the combine to show you were there and you hurt your hamstring and you just say, I think that's a bad idea. If you are a top 10 pick already locked in, no reason to go. I don't want to hold it against people. I'm not holding it against Travis Hunter.

What does he have to prove? What does he have to do to help himself? He's going to be the top 10 draft pick. But I will say though for Cam Warden Chedure Sanders, what are we doing here? Who is it that you think you are? Last year, we saw top 10 quarterbacks, J.J. McCarthy and Michael Penix go and throw,

and they helped themselves a lot. J.J. McCarthy showed progress from college, and Michael Penix just put on a show. I was like, okay. And how much different would they have been drafted? I'm not sure. But I thought for Caleb Williams, for Jaden Daniels, for Drake May,

okay, these guys are locked in. They're not going anywhere. They don't need to come here and do this. But Penix does need to do his stuff out there and show them how good the canon is. And McCarthy does need to show his progress. And Bo Nix, honestly, I thought, made some money for himself as well,

because he convinced some people that he actually did have the arm strength To go down the field in his throwing sessions and he liked to see those guys compete So I guess I would definitely go player to player if somebody sitting out who is a fringe first rounder because they just don't Want to do it. I don't know like go go compete go show what you got. It's also a very weird and anti, would you say, is it like, I don't know how to put this. It's weird. Like if you were just to take, we know this happens and we've known it for a long time

and it's always been a thing. But if you were inventing League, would you include this weird thing where guys get in their underpants and run real fast? Like, no, of course not. It's always been strange to me. It's like in an era where players in college are understanding their values better than they ever have. If you're them, a lot of, I mean, shouldn't you be saying like, why do I have to do this? I played for six years of football that you can watch.

I shouldn't have to go do this for you to draft me. And if that ever became a widespread sentiment and one year all the prospects said we're not doing it, well then it would kill the event pretty much instantly. And it probably is weird, but I also like it. So there's that part. And a lot of players make names for themselves there that would have no chance to stand out otherwise.

So I think it's still useful, but it's, you know, if there's somebody like cam ward who won't step up and throw the football, what, I mean, what are you afraid of? That's not like you're getting hurt or anything. You just going out and throwing, come on, show what you got, man. I think a lot of people don't realize that these, most of these players didn't have an off season. They went directly from their college season finish

and immediately started prepping for combine and pro days. So like a bunch of people are having lingering, nagging small injuries. So if you're nursing one of those and yeah, like don't risk it, wait for your pro day, let the tape speak for itself. But me, when I was growing up and I played, I used to dream of going to the combine and trying to raise my draft stock because it's one of the rare opportunities where all 32 teams are there looking

at you at the same time and you have the chance to go prove that you're better than the guy next to you. So I don't, maybe, maybe some guys are just wired different and have that. Drive to just make sure they're clearly the best. And I don't, I don't know. I don't really agree with the letting my tape show for yourself. I get where they're coming from, but it's like, we're, we're football players. We're competitors, like go out and compete, show why you're the best. So that's kind of how I feel about it. Yeah, I think fundamentally it should not exist.

No one should have to do this. They should just be drafted on their tape and they should do maybe individual workouts if someone wants them to or if they agree to it, they could do a pro day if they want to. That should be how it is really. But since it exists and since it is a place to come compete, I would give extra credit if a guy who's going to be a first rounder. Hey, how about the kid from Tennessee, Pierce? He shows up and runs a four four summer.

OK, in the head. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah, I didn't expect the hoodie to slow him down. A guy that size. But I mean, like, OK, that guy with the production and then competing and then putting up those numbers like, let's go. Right. So, yeah, I think I don't want to say I would never draft this guy because he's not competing. If like Abdul Carter, what you only can hurt yourself.

You've got a little injury anyway. You just don't want to do that. So it really is a kind of a case to case basis for me. Yeah. Well, let's move past the young guys and let's talk about old fellows because Jason Peters retired at age 43, which is ancient in the football world. So who is your favorite player who played into their late 30s

and 40s and was still good? My favorite ever was Dion Sanders retired and was still good. My favorite ever. Was Dion Sanders retired and was just vibing and doing like NFL Network. And I think it was Ray Lewis from the Ravens called Dion was like, man, we need a corner like our defense. We lost some corners. We we can still be great. This was Kyle Buller era.

I think Alexander Wright started a playoff game for them and basically had no career whatsoever and may have come very close to winning that playoff game. Anyway, so Diaz just like, all right, fine. I'll come back. Sure. Yeah. I think he was 39 or 41 or something and just came back with the Ravens and was honestly awesome with the Baltimore Ravens

with all those great defensive players. I think Suggs was there. Ray Lewis was there, that great D line. And here's Dion Sanders just going out and making plays at this super old age, because if somebody keeps playing until their late thirties and isn't good, it's just sad. And it's like, oh man, it went too far. There's a lot of quarterbacks. Matt brings up Vinnie Testa Verde. There's a lot of quarterbacks who kept it going. What I think Josh McCown played in his first playoff game.

I want to say it was like 39 or 38 in his entire career when. When Scott hurt and he came into that playoff game with the Eagles. So journeyman quarterbacks who play until they're 40, of course, you know, our favorites of mine. But in terms of someone doing something totally random, like coming back out of retirement and playing great, that's incredible. That's just an incredible feat. It shows you how Deion Sanders is a once in a lifetime type of athlete who played Major

League Baseball and played in the NFL in the same weekend in the World Series, no less. And then decided, yeah, I'll just get up off my couch, off the TV set and go play. And then he did it. That's so cool. Yeah. Dion Sanders is one of those like mythical creatures in sports where it just doesn't make sense. How are you that fast? How are you that athletic? How can you play both sports? It's he's and then he can go coach too. All right. But someone who's like on the opposite spectrum of him in terms of natural talent that I really loved

was Larry Fitzgerald. He played until his late 30s. And I modeled my game after him when I was a kid. Because not only was he such a likable dude, he never said anything wrong. I don't remember any media allegations. but the man just never dropped passes. If he threw it to 11, you knew he was going to catch it. And he was one of most clutch players ever.

I remember, I forget the year, but the Packers versus Cardinals when Aaron Rogers had like two hill Marys. People forget that Larry Fitzgerald took that game over and just absolutely dominated. But another guy I was thinking about, I didn't I kind of want to stay away from quarterbacks, but Brett Favre. And it like during his career I hated him because I like the Bears but and he was torching us every year. But after he retired I was able to like step back and reflect and he just made football so fun And it wasn't just the fact that he was throwing lasers

I think Brett Favre might have took the biggest hits that I've ever seen a quarterback take and he like he took a ton of Them but he was always just get back up and be that gunslinger that he was so He's got to be one of my favorites. I think we always in entertainment of any kind struggle with this when let's say there's a great actor who turns out to be a creepo or something like that. Like say you love Kevin Spacey and then you're like, oh no, Kevin Spacey. Why? I don't think you have to go back and be like, I'm never watching

those movies again, or I'm never. I don't want this have to go back and be like, I'm never watching those movies again, or I'm never. I don't want this to be a controversial take. If you're if you don't watch Kevin Spacey movies, that's totally fine. But I look at great athletes like this. Now, there's a level to it. There's like an OJ level to it. But with someone like Brett Favre, I think we can separate. Brett Favre made a generation of people love football like he loved football and that includes me

with Brett Favre the person who scammed poor people out of a bunch of money. And Brett Favre who sent a picture to a woman and did terrible things off the field. I think we can put those things aside. The 2009 season or two different sides of our brain. The 2009 season is one different sides of our brain. The 2009 season is one of the most fun things that's ever happened in football.

If you were just to make maybe this will be my next book. The funnest things to ever happen in football. Breath Favre showing up with the freaking Vikings and beating the Packers twice and just having a ball out there is so fun. And it didn't end fun, but it was, it just was so, so entertaining that I agree as far as old quarterbacks watching him in 09 was the best. Wrigley brings up one of my favorite players that I ever covered, Terrence Newman, who was into his late thirties when I arrived with the, to cover the Vikings in 2016. And then he played through 2017

and just a wealth of knowledge. That was my first time, 2016 was my first time covering football inside of a locker room. I had covered hockey before. So I did not have the type of knowledge of the other football reporters yet. And Terrence Newman was incredibly nice to me

in explaining a lot of things where I could just walk up to him and ask like, hey, I asked him one time to read one of my articles to make sure I had it right. Like it was kind of scheme and X and O a little bit. And I was like, did I get this right? You know, like, and he was nice enough to do that and give me feedback on it. So somebody like that is so cool.

And he played great. He switched positions 2017 to play the nickel. That's another thing. Charles Haley was another guy who played late into his career. Bruce Smith with Washington was still getting double digit sacks. Like a lot of those guys, it's Julius Peppers.

Julius Peppers might be one of the best. And every so often, I'm trying to think of a good name for this, every so often a guy will just show up with a team and win a Super Bowl or something when he's kind of washed, but he latches on and he contributes just enough and ends up winning a Super Bowl. That's always pretty great too. So, you know, it wasn't it,

I hate to throw this one out there. Didn't Brian, I think Brian McKinney won with Baltimore, and that was like a former Viking was kind of washed up. So, you know, that's that's how it goes. Elshon Jeffrey with Philadelphia 2017's kind of washed up wide receiver was really good. Played for the Bears teams ends up winning a Super Bowl. So great question. Yeah, there's a lot of us.

Daryl Green got brought up. That's a. Yep. So just a whole bunch of guys who love ball. Anyone who plays that late? Oh, yeah. Mercedes Lewis still playing. That's crazy. Wade says boggled that Percy Harvin admitted that he played every game medicated. Yeah, I mean,

the things that Percy Harvin was capable of. Percy was talking about a comeback maybe five years ago, and I thought that'd be a great idea. I bet he could still play. So great question, great stuff, great questions from you guys. I really had an awesome time at the Combine, and I got a lot of great guests on the show.

Make sure you go. I tried to cover every aspect of what is about to happen with the Vikings from a bunch of different people at the NFL Combine. So make sure you go check out those videos. Great stuff, Clay. And go over and check out purpleinsider.football.com and have a mailbag tomorrow. But also in the next couple of days,, Clay's gonna have a really cool and unique article that pertains to the NFL combine that he's been working on. So purpleinsider.football, sign up over there for the newsletter. All my written

stuff all off season long and along with Clay's as well will be over there. So Clay, thank you for your time. Great job on Clay's Corner tonight. Only one siren in the background. So that's progress. No, no glitchiness. Tonight. The video's looking good. The audience looking good. Uh, you weren't bumping into the micro falling every time we get a little, we get 1% better each podcast clay. So with the reps comes with the, right. It's all about the reps. So great job. And, uh, we will talk to you all. Nope. I'm supposed to take clay out not myself. Hold on there. There we go. Okay, we'll talk to you all very soon. Appreciate you guys.

Football.