Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - TSN's Farhan Lalji talks about how good Michael Penix Jr. is and the Vikings meet with Jayden Daniels

Episode Date: March 28, 2024

Matthew Coller talks to TSN reporter Farhan Lalji, who covered Washington and Michael Penix Jr this year and then discusses why we have overlooked a Jayden Daniels/Vikings connection as they met with him at his pro day on Wednesday. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

hey everybody welcome to another episode of purple insider matthew collar here and joining me from his car in Vancouver after covering a Canucks practice is Farhan Lalji of TSN. But actually we're not going to talk puck. We're going to talk some football Farhan because you covered Michael Penix this year for Washington. You got a crossover between CFL guy, NHL guy and college football, and even maybe a little NFL draft thrown in there. So what's up, man? How are you? Are the Canucks going to make the playoffs? Is that where we should start this conversation?

Well, let's not because I'm hockeyed out. But yeah, they're absolutely going to make the playoffs. They should have clinched a playoff spot the other night, and I'm sure they will. I don't know how far they'll go, but they're definitely going to make it. All right. Well, okay. We'll see. We're in a little bit of a struggle land here with the wild at the moment. And I don't know how they're going to

break out of it, but that's somebody else's podcast, man. So let's talk about Michael Penix because you had an opportunity to cover Michael Penix this year and saw him lead the nation in passing. And it's been very interesting to follow him through the draft process because after the game against Texas, you would have thought he had a chance to compete with Caleb Williams at the very top of the draft. Everyone was so high on him. And then after they lose the national championship, which doesn't really seem like a very sound way to do this, but his draft stock in the mock draft universe seemed to fall off the face of the earth after that. So you having a chance to cover him up close and personal, where should his draft stock actually land?

Now, listen, I'm going to be transparent here because when it comes to Michael Penix, I'm half fan, half reporter, right? So for the last 40 years, I've watched the University of Washington football program closely, right? I live here in the area, and I've certainly been a fan of that program. And I generally never have to cross with fandom and journalism because the Huskies aren't in the college football playoff. So I get to kind of watch them one way. So I'm a little biased when it comes to Michael Penix, but also understand that I have watched every snap,

every pass he's made as a Washington Husky and dissected it closely for the last couple of years beyond what he just did in the college football playoffs. So I think this guy is absolutely an NFL quarterback. I struggle with some of the criticisms of him, and some are really valid. But you are right, because even though he was a runner-up for the Heisman Trophy and he's led the nation

in passing the last two seasons. It really is amazing to see how the pendulum swung. Once he entered the national consciousness to everybody, not just Heisman voters, but everybody in those two college football playoff games, because the one thing with Michael is he's had those injuries that he had at Indiana and you can't run from those injuries. They are there and they're part of his story.

He's been incredibly healthy the last couple of seasons. Part of that has been because the offensive line has been so good they've managed to protect him. So one of the real criticisms of Michael Penix is what happens when he's got a playoff platform? And against Texas, he had to do that because that defense was so good. Their interior guys drew double teams and that allowed some extra guys to come and he was able to move and he was able to slide up in the pocket, because that defense was so good. Their interior guys drew double teams, and that allowed some extra guys to come.

And he was able to move, and he was able to slide up in the pocket, play off platform, make really good throws in that game. And he actually had three designed runs, which they hadn't done in two years because they were trying to get him healthy or keep him healthy. And now all of a sudden, it's the college football playoffs, and the gloves are off, right? So he showed an ability to do that against a very good Texas team, and that really elevated him, as you say. And then against Michigan, against a really good team, he struggled, right?

You know, he missed throws in the first half. Then he got banged up early in the third quarter on that interception, and it affected him even more. And it wasn't necessarily the best final memory to leave people with. But I think when you look at his body of work, the way he's been able to throw the ball in every spot on the field, accurately the leadership abilities that he possesses and all of it, I find it difficult to quibble with this guy as a draft pick,

a high draft pick. Now, is he going to go on the top 10? Heck no. But you know, he could go late in the first round. And if not, you know, I don't think he gets much past go late in the first round. And if not, you know, I don't think he gets much past the middle of the second round because I think there's going to be a lot of teams in the second round, including maybe Minnesota, that view him as a real steal. Well, your appreciation for Michael Penix is why I asked you to come on because I know how closely you've watched that program for so long and had a chance to, you know, go out there and cover games and things like that for him. So you've gotten to get a really close and detailed look. And that's what I want to ask you

about a little bit more is some of those critiques of his, because he was a playmaker more at Indiana. And how much should we look at the offense designed to make sure that he didn't get injured again, because Washington is not making the national championship if Michael Penix was hurt versus what he can or cannot do in the NFL and there's a stat I also want to ask you about his ability to avoid sacks this year was downright incredible he is the best of any guy coming out this year, him and Bo Nix at avoiding those sacks. Do you look at that as something that can translate over to the NFL, despite the fact that he's never going to be on the level of, say, Jaden Daniels or Caleb Williams when

it comes to a runner? Yeah, I think it can. And for two reasons. One of them is he's got an incredibly quick release. So people look at him and they're like, oh, he's got a weird release. I think that's because people aren't used to looking at him left handed. But if you look at him, he can get from drop to base to ball out instantly. And when a blitz comes, he can get it out instantly. He doesn't need a lot of room in front of him to step into throws. He's got breathtaking arm talent, right? And so, you know, he can be very sudden with

how he gets the ball out. He doesn't need to ease it out or have a big looping long delivery or have to double hitch into a lot of throws. The second thing is, you know, what does it mean that they kept him protected? Boy, every coach I know would sure love to keep the quarterback protected a lot. And it, you know, it's simply not that easy. One of the reasons he's able to keep himself protected is he's got a tremendous understanding of the offense and is able to get into the right protections. So I think, you know, he really had to morph as a quarterback from his time at Indiana to his time at Washington,

because he was more of a dual threat player coming out of high school early in his career at Indiana. He couldn't sustain it that way. Two knee injuries, two shoulder injuries two shoulder injuries he had to change and he was able to change and obviously you know good personnel in front of him really good coaching around him and really good talent you know at the receiver positions all contributed to that because there were certainly moments where somebody was coming and he was able to get it out quick and just put his receiver in a position to win a jump ball and those receivers more often than not just won so many contested balls and that's also been a criticism of Michael Penix and you've got three NFL receivers all of them are going to go

on the first two days of the draft but this isn't Mac Jones right like this guy has got far more arm talent because I remember that being a criticism of Jones that he's playing with all these great players when you look at the amount of downfield passing that Penix was asked to do at Washington, you know, it's not easy to protect yourself in those scenarios. And he was able to do it. And I do think that translates. The arm talent is very special. And when you watched him even throw at the combine, I mean, just look at the way the ball comes out of his hand.

It might be because his hands are bigger than most wide receivers, most tight ends. He has, uh, people here would know how big Kyle Rudolph, Kyle Rudolph's hands were so big. They had the, like the hamburger helper thing that somebody gave him a stuffed animal, the hamburger helper and his, uh, locker. That's like the same size as Michael Pennix. And I think that that really helps him as far as being able to spin it. But you know, when it comes to throwing to good wide receivers, if he were to become a Minnesota Viking, let me think they got some pretty good wide receivers. So that's a weird criticism, but also that came up with Joe Burrow as well, when he was thrown to Jefferson and thrown to Jamar chase, like, well, that's actually, you know, not necessarily proof that someone won't become good in the NFL.

The thing that makes him stand out to me is his ability to lead receivers. And I think this is the talent that is most necessary to push the ball down the field in the NFL. And I don't mean 40, 50 yards. I mean, intermediate 10 to 20 yards, but there has to be anticipation there. And I just saw with his throwing ability, he did not have to see his guy open. He could throw it to a spot for that guy to get open. And the right-handed comparison I would make a little bit with that is like a Gino Smith, where he's got the big arm and he can lead guys. And, you know, Geno's not that much of a runner either. I think there might be, well, I mean, you're out in that area.

There might be somewhat of a comparison there between those two quarterbacks in the just pure arm talent and the way that they throw the football. Yeah, I think that's fair. You know, like I do think his ceiling is higher than Geno's, right? But some of those particular traits I think make sense because even Geno Smith, when he was coming out of high school and when he was at West Virginia, was a much more dynamic runner, right? And things changed for him as he got into the NFL. And he had to slow the game down.

And that required not just taking off as quickly as he did earlier in his career. And does get the ball out of his hands pretty quickly. You know, I think, you know, one of Gino's problems right now is he, even though he's got a quick release, he double clutches so often. And that winds up getting him into trouble, and you just don't see that with Penix. So he leads receivers particularly well. You know, the one thing he needs to do more of, which this offense didn't ask,

was deeper throws in the middle of the field, right? Outside the hash marks, there was a lot of that. Middle of the field on closer routes within 15 to 20 yards marks there was a lot of that middle of the field on closer routes within 15 to 20 yards there was a lot of that but usually if he was throwing deep down the middle of the field it was a deep crosser with a touch pass that allowed him to take the ball into the far zone right like the the neck zone over that even though the receiver is running between the hash marks the reception might have happened outside a hash mark against man coverage so you know there are some of those things can he split safeties, NFL safeties between the hash marks at 20 yards, you know, on a hard post with a low trajectory,

you know, where he's such a high trajectory thrower. So there's some of those things that, you know, are fair criticisms and that you want to see. It's not to say he can't do them. It's just that he wasn't necessarily asked to do them. You know, and in terms of off platform, this guy's not going to be Lamar Jackson, right? He's not going to be that guy that's going to make guys miss, but can he navigate the

pocket slide and just get out long enough to get the ball out of his hands? I think he can do that. And, you know, you mentioned Joe Burrow. Here's the other criticism. Michael Penix is too old. Guess what? Same age as Joe Burrow when he came into the NFL, right? Because you've had a long collegiate career.

And that's not an indictment, especially now. Like, look at the 2021 and 2022 draft classes. Everybody is missed. I don't think any of those teams care how old those guys are. You know what I mean? Like, they're just not good enough to play. If you can get a guy to a second contract as a quarterback in the NFL, like, you have done something right as a scouting department. And, you know, for Michael Penix,

that will happen when he's 28, which still doesn't make you too old because quarterbacks are playing even longer. So, you know, that's the other piece of it, along with where the locations of those throws are that you talked about. And I think what you bring up is a serious challenge for the Minnesota Vikings because their options are maybe trade everything up for Drake may trade enough to try to get JJ McCarthy or potentially sit at 11 and take Michael Penix or Bo Nix or take another player and then try to wait and see who hangs around. I think that there's somebody who's going to like Michael Penix in the first round. I could be completely wrong. The mock drafters have them all over the place. His, his actual status is really hard to pin down. It is for a lot of guys

anyway, but I think for him in particular, you could definitely see one team buying in by the way, my old school comp for him is drew Bledsoe. If he doesn't move at all in the NFL, just the guy who's going to stand in the pocket and just fire away. But remember Bledsoe had that lower release a little bit. He was taller, but it was the same kind of like, you know, lower release. Phil Rivers had that too, but I don't think he had the velocity of Michael Penick. So we've seen other quarterbacks who throw like that have a lot of success. Before I ask you your opinion on his draft stock, about his leadership and what he's gone through to be at this point, this is probably my biggest selling point on Michael Penix, aside from the canon, is just when you cover an NFL team every day, you see how much

these guys go through. And this is my deepest respect for Kirk Cousins, is the amount of times where he's criticized like crazy, the injuries that you go through and have to fight through to get back on the field. It's not always the best coaching. Whatever it is, there's so much pressure, so much adversity, and you lose a lot of football games and you have to keep fighting. And what Michael Penix had to do to get to that national championship game is, and this is not a downside on JJ McCarthy. It's just that I can prove it with Michael Penix that he could keep fighting where McCarthy's kind of had everything just fall in line with him at Michigan.

But Penix's ability to battle through all of those injuries and take a team that, as you mentioned, never goes to that stage i think is incredibly impressive from from a character standpoint yeah no i think the leadership is is huge and it's translated really well because when he came in here uh when he came to washington his first year i think a lot of fans were hoping a quarterback named sam heward was going to win that battle so they had dylan morris who was their starting quarterback the previous two years and then and um wasn't great and sam heward was a legacy kid, right? Damon Heward's son, Brock Heward's nephew.

And certainly a big part of the fan base was hoping that he'd win the battle. Very early on, we knew it was going to go to Pennix. But the way he took that team over that had been a bit scarred from the previous year and the previous regime under Jimmy Lake, for him to walk in there and just instantly earn everybody's respect. And when for him to walk in there and just instantly earn everybody's respect. And when you talk to people in that building, it wasn't just the players. It was the support staff and everybody else who he treated with a lot of respect and humility.

I think that's a big, big selling point for Michael Penix is that just the adversity that he's battled, but just the overall character that he has. I mean, Kevin O'Connell is going to love coaching this guy if he gets that opportunity because, you know, you can criticize the footwork, the age of the injury, but that character element, I don't think you can criticize at all in Michael Penix Jr. I think he hits a home run.

And when you look at potential teams, I know Minnesota is in a good spot to potentially take a guy like that. I think Seattle might be a team that has some interest. I look at Atlanta where Cousins just wound up as the next guy. And, you know, I think a team's not going to want to take him with their first pick because the teams that are going to want to take him are going to have a guy in the building that's established, and that team's going to have needs because they're going to think

they can get over the hump this year. But you look at Minnesota, who's now got two picks in the first round, can you get them with your second pick and still address some needs with the first pick? You know, I think those are the teams that are probably going to fit best if Seattle trades down because they've got other needs. Could they take them with their second pick? So there's a few of those places where it fits, but if you value character, he's right there. And I'm not down on J.J. McCarthy. But it seems very quickly, like I thought it was going to be a great spot for Minnesota.

This guy's ascending up the draft board so fast. I think we're going to have quarterbacks with the top four picks. Somebody's going to trade. Arizona's going to trade and pass on Marvin Harrison Jr. so that somebody can take J.J. McCarthy, right? And, you know, for Bo Nix and Michael Penix, does that bring them up a little bit later in the first round? It wouldn't shock me.

There's such a desperate need in this league at the position. And as a result, guys get overvalued. Michael Penix seems to me an overthink it prospect where like, don't, don't get lost in the woods and overthink it. Watch him play, right. Watch him throw the football. And also what I really like too about him, and you could tell I've been sort of banging the Pennix drum, that if the Vikings are in a position where they can't get that top four,

I just see such a fit with Kevin O'Connell. As you mentioned, the way that they played offense, he was operating a lot at the line of scrimmage for college. Like no one's doing a lot in college in comparison to the NFL, but a lot at the line of scrimmage for college. Like no one's doing a lot in college in comparison to the NFL, but a lot of motions. It looked like there was a good amount of reads going on. And he really just had this, like, I'm in total command. This is my team completely. And with McCarthy now, maybe two, three years from now, if he kept playing college football, he'd look exactly the same. That's the challenge of comparing them as prospects, right? But I thought that Penix, the way he was out of the

shotgun, which I know is where Kevin O'Connell wants his quarterback and just running everything at the line of scrimmage, he's going to want a quarterback who can do the same thing. So as he goes to these meetings, I think that's the thing that Penix and him have to really connect well on for that to come to fruition, because we could see a scenario where the Vikings are not the team that gets to number four. Maybe it's the Giants because they have a shorter way to go and they have to look at Knicks and Penix, which is what I wanted to ask you is Knicks versus Penix. What's your feeling on that? Well, different types of players, right? And both similar in the fact that they've played a lot of college football.

They've been through a lot of battles. As the last three years have kind of evolved, both men have gained a tremendous amount of respect for one another, and they built a friendship there. You saw that at the end of the Pac-12 title game, not just on the field but in the press conference after, that they stuck around to hear what the other guy had to say and spend some time.

But certainly Bo Nix can use his legs a lot better than Michael Penix can. I think, I think that's the big thing and he doesn't have the injury history, but you know, I think there's a lot of similarities there. I don't think that Bo makes as many down the field throws, right? Because the offense at Oregon was so much more of a quick out college

screen game type of offense. Certainly he hit Troy Franklin down the field a lot. He does have the arm talent, but he wasn't asked to make every throw in every section of the field. Like you saw more from Michael Penix again, not to say that he can't do it. He just hasn't shown a lot of multiple reads in what he's asked to do in Oregon's offense. Whereas, like I said, you know,

you talked about what Kevin O'Connell likes in terms of operating at the line of scrimmage. The amount of shifts and motions that Washington does, nobody else does in college football. You know, they had a number of players that could be versatile and play a number of different areas. They had a guy named Jack Westover, who was a tight end, H-back, fullback, and you can move him around with a lot of the shifts and motions. And they took full advantage of that so talking to Ryan Grubb I remember at one point he says people think that I'm always in his ear telling him when all these shifts and things need to occur and that didn't happen right so whether it was getting in and out of protections or you know running the play as executed and making decisions to change he's been asked to do that and done it at a very high level

Bo Nix maybe he can but he hasn't been asked to do it and done it at a very high level. Bo Nix, maybe he can, but he hasn't been asked to do it because they just operated at a different kind of speed at Oregon where he was asked to just get to the line quick and get the ball out quick. And I think both players are very good prospects, that if the Vikings end up with them, you could see why they would fit. I just look at the downfield passing, the sort of commanding that offense the way that Pennix did as being maybe a better fit with Kevin O'Connell I just look at the downfield passing, the sort of commanding that offense, the way the Pennix did as being maybe a better fit with Kevin O'Connell, if they end up getting there.

So before I let you go, I want to know, because I know you love the draft. I want to know your hottest quarterback take right now. I mean, you can always adjust this as we go forward and so forth, but what is it right now that you feel like, you know, you think something, but you don't feel like the draft industrial complex as my friend Aaron Nagler calls it like you don't feel like the outside world is giving enough credit or enough criticism or whatever give me give me something hot here to close the show I'm not feeling Drake May at all like I get that he's got the right body I get get that he looks the part. I am not feeling Drake May at all. And if he goes to the Patriots at number three with how bad that offense is and how bad those

weapons are, it's going to be a, he'll be the next guy that's quick in and out because he makes questionable decisions. He's lost a lot of football games. I am not feeling Drake May. I get the ceiling, like Caleb Williams, I think is feeling Drake May. I get the ceiling like Caleb Williams. I think is can't miss. I get the ceiling with Jaden Daniels. And quite frankly, I like JJ McCarthy a lot, but I am not feeling Drake May one bit. Wow.

We're on opposite ends of the spectrum here with Drake May. And this is, this is why the draft is so great, right? You know, ball. I thought Johnny Manziel was going to be good, good right so i don't have it all right oh i thought josh rosen was gonna be the best quarterback in that draft uh and it turned out to be that was not correct in fact there are two future hall of famers in that draft and i thought he was better than them here's why this is art not science okay um i I remember the Carson Wentz, Jared Goff draft like it was yesterday. And coming out of the college football season,

neither player was ranked in the top 10 on anybody's board. But you go through the offseason, you go through the combine, you go through the underwear Olympics, and teams are desperate. Who of these quarterbacks is going to look bad on a pro day? Michael Penix is going to have his pro day tomorrow. Who's going to look bad on a pro day? Michael Penix is going to have his pro day tomorrow. Who's going to look bad at a pro day? And by the time you get to the draft, not only were those two guys taken one and two, teams gave up a king's ransom to take them at one and two.

There's such a desperate need of the position. Guys get overvalued. It's going to happen here. The trivia question you're asking for is Teddy Bridgewater, the only guy I can ever remember coming out of his pro day that actually got criticized for it because I think he didn't wear his gloves or something, if you remember that whole thing.

Yeah, it's coming back to me. Hey, the Drake May conversation is really interesting because I look at the pure arm talent and what they could put around him. I also look at how bad his team was. I thought his team was, I mean, when I look at the pure arm talent and what they could put around him. I also look at how bad his team was. I thought his team was, I mean, when I look at Pennix, great receivers, great offensive design. And with Drake may, it was kind of, Hey, throw a deep or run for him. And so it's a lot about what I think he can become the size, the arm talent. But if you just watched him play last year you might go i don't

know about that kind of actually reminds me of jordan love a little bit when i watched him at utah state and i was like yeah i'm not sure i really see it but then after a couple years then the tools come together i think his tools are probably the best of anyone that's not caleb uh you you could be right you could be right look, you know, I always respect teams that draft for ceiling and not floor. Right? If you draft for high floor, you're going to get Kenny Pickett and Mac Jones. Take a swing, draft for ceiling, and he's got that. We'll see if he ever finds it.

And if he does, save this receipt and come back to me in three years, and I'll come back on and you can dunk on me. Hey, this is the thing that makes it so much fun to talk to everybody is all the different perspectives. So I love that you are going an opposite way of me looking at Drake May Farhan Lalji on Twitter at a TSN at the end, and you'll find you. I really enjoy following you, man. I love the CFL updates. I keep an eye on the Canucks because of you. You do it all out there. uh i really appreciate you taking the time to pop on and um congratulations to your team the huskies on a great season even if uh didn't work out quite at the end yeah it was a

weird 72 hours after all of that uh hopefully i never have to watch anything like that again thanks for having me buddy hey u.s cellular, I've got good news. So don't hit that skip forward button just yet. I'm talking about their special customer event, Us Days. What's Us Days? It means exclusive offers just for their customers, just to say thanks, like up to $1,200 to upgrade to any new phone. No, I didn't misread that. That's up to $1,200 off. They must really like you all. Us Days at U.S. Cellular exclusive offers just for you just to say thanks.

Right now, U.S. Cellular customers get up to $1,200 to upgrade to any new phone terms apply. Look, we've got a pro day with the quarterback that the Vikings are going to be meeting with, or actually already met with reportedly. So that means we've got a live show because, you know, as I was thinking about it today, the one quarterback that we have not really talked about maybe enough with the Vikings because of assumptions that I've been making is Jaden Daniels. So today, Jaden Daniels had his pro day at LSU, and the Minnesota Vikings reportedly met with Daniels, as they should. And, well, Kevin O'Connell told us,

Hey guys, don't look too much into the pro days and so forth. When we asked him at the owners meetings, it's not lost on me that they showed up at some and didn't show up at others. Uh, so, you know, I don't know how maybe Kevin O'Connell smoke screening us a little bit by saying, don't look too much into it, But you know, we've just talked so much about Drake May, about JJ McCarthy that I thought we really haven't dedicated the start of a show at least. And then you guys take it wherever it goes. But we haven't really dedicated a whole lot of time to talking about Jadenden daniels specifically the possibility that the vikings could get him uh as well as what his fit would be and also jonathan harrison who is a producer on

this show also pointed me to a comment from kevin o'connell about jayden daniels when he was on k fan with paul allen that you know maybe stuck out just a little bit as well. So I'm curious to get your guys' thoughts and how you like the idea of the Vikings trying to get Jane Daniels. Does that mean they would have to try to go up to number two or am I just maybe overblowing some of the signs that the Washington commanders would be, you know, a team that would like to take Jane Daniels at number two, because maybe that's not the case. Maybe they do want Drake may, maybe I'm making too much or JJ McCarthy. I guess that was the, uh, report from Tom Palacero,

but maybe I've, you know, just made too much of the fact that they went out and got Cliff Kingsbury or made too much of the fact that, you know, they brought in Marcus Mariota to be their backup and got rid of Sam Howell or something. I don't know. Maybe I'm thinking too much that Jaden Daniels is going to be the number two overall pick. So let's talk about it. Let's dive in on the day that he had his pro day and met with the Minnesota Vikings. And already some of you jumping in the comments with different takes on Jaden Daniels and like how much you like him or whether you think it's realistic. And Randy, to start off the show, says, I agree with Adam Rank. Washington should trade the number two pick to Minnesota.

I didn't know that Adam Rank said that that should happen, but I don't know. Do you have to go to the number two pick is the question. And I just look at what Jaden Daniels did this year and the numbers he put up and the way that he did it, which was maybe, again, I'm trying to rethink everything that i've said and i think about jayden daniels um that when you look at the statistics of course are unbelievable

good enough to win you a heisman what really impressed me about jayden daniels is that he had one of the best turnover worthy play rates like in a good way in the entire nation this year. And for somebody who runs like crazy scrambles, tries to make plays, uh, that's really good. I mean, yeah, you're thrown to open receivers at college football, but a lot of times if there's the thing that correlates, I think with success in the NFL, and there are statistics that go the other way on this with Jaden Daniels a bit too. But one of the things that I've always noticed is turnovers. That if you are, for example, Jameis Winston or Sam Darnold, and you turn the ball over like crazy in college,

oftentimes you turn it over like crazy in the NFL. Daniels does get sacked too much, which may be a product of him trying to make plays too often and scramble too often and then run himself into sacks. And he does take a lot of hits. But one thing that today came out of his pro day, because I think we all know that Jaden Daniels could throw the football, is that he weighed 210 pounds, which is pretty significant because you gotta be able to take hits if you're going to be in the NFL and at least being over 200 pounds, the, he does have the, what do they call it? Like the spindly frame, which is something that has been talked about,

but six foot three, 210 sounds okay. I mean, two 10 is on the lighter side still for NFL quarterbacks. Um, and you do always have a concern with the scrambling quarterback. Uh, Kevin O'Connell did mention that about the, the physical nature, the hits, the quarterbacks take, and that's going to be a worry with Jaden Daniels. But then again, there was a study done years ago as quarterbacks started to run and scramble more often. And I think it still holds true that running quarterbacks do not actually get hurt at a higher rate. Quarterbacks just get hurt in general. And if you're a pocket quarterback, they can hit you because they know where you're at.

And if you're a running quarterback, they can hit you in space. So I'm not sure that it's something that there's actual fact behind that running quarterbacks get hurt more often like lamar jackson got hurt a couple years in a row and then last year he wins the mvp and and plays incredibly well and stays healthy in a year where half the league's quarterbacks including kirk cousins standing there on the turf at lambo ends up getting injured. So that's a very hard thing to predict, but his, the fact that he does not turn the ball over and had very few plays that were thrown into traffic, didn't have dropped interceptions. Sometimes a guy can have four picks on the year and 14 dropped interceptions in college football. And that's why the turnover worthy play stat from pff is so good because it tells you

all right was this guy throwing it into traffic and having problems or was he actually like uh protecting the ball pretty well so um you know i i think that with jayden daniels there is a lot to like about him when it comes to his ability to run is truly special. His yards per play in college and stats, you know, sometimes don't always translate, but he averaged two more yards per rush than Lamar Jackson did in college. And he averaged over 10 yards per pass attempt, which is very rare, even in college to see. So he really did put up some super special numbers this year. And I think that he also did it in an environment that wasn't like he was playing, you know,

no offense to the Mac. I love Mac-tion as anybody else, but it's not like he was playing at, you know, some college where there's no defense and it's not like he was playing at some college where there's no defense and it's a very easy environment and he was able to just dominate. He had good wide receivers, and a lot of his numbers were put up on deep balls, but also he was good at throwing to all areas of the field. His numbers were really great everywhere. So it's hard to make an argument against jayden daniels aside from when i watched

i didn't think that he threw with great timing all the time which i do believe that kevin o'connell would it would matter a lot to him with the timing uh but when he was throwing the ball today at his pro day it just he's another guy where the football comes off his hand so easy and we watched Michael Penix throw at the combine so we got a look at that and and I don't think it's quite the same as that level but when he can throw with touch with anticipation I mean you just see there's a lot of things that Jaden Daniels can do and then the floor is automatically raised by being a running quarterback but here's the thing that kevin o'connell said that i wanted to bring up that kevin o'connell said about jayden daniels that i thought was very interesting so he was on with

paul allen and paul allen was kind of grilling him about each quarterback and kevin o'connell said his most impactful plays running the ball come as an extension of passing plays where he's gone through a progression now this perked up my ears because it matches up a little bit with how kweisi adafo mensah talked about making the play right when something goes wrong we know that drake may can do that. We know that JJ McCarthy can do that. And Bo Nix, those are the guys who have done it at a high level, but Jaden Daniels can take when something goes wrong and not just turn it into good. He can turn it into a 75 yard touchdown run because he has that type of speed and explosiveness. And I wish he ran the 40 so we could see how fast he is exactly, but it's gotta be four, four type of speed. It's gotta be in the ballpark of somebody like

Lamar Jackson. I think what was Michael Vick like four, three, five. I don't know if it's quite that Michael Vick is the fastest quarterback I've ever seen still, but it's in that category. And you think about how there have been a lot of quarterbacks that aren't even perfect passers or weren't even in the range of Jaden Daniels that turned out to be stars and very successful who didn't even throw the ball as well as he did. Cam Newton was a great thrower at times, but he also threw a lot of ducks too. Michael Vick was a great thrower at times, but did not have huge passing statistics. Those guys won a ton of games. Cam Newton took a team to the Super Bowl and won the MVP in probably his best passing year. But Jaden Daniels is a much better college passer than someone like cam newton and every bit on

the same level as a runner and if that was a little hint there from kevin o'connell that when he watches him play he sees him go through his reads and then decides that he's going to take off rather than uh you know just looking at his first read then go off. I think that that's a pretty interesting detail there that maybe I didn't expect Kevin O'Connell to say. And I know that when it comes to every quarterback, if O'Connell's asked directly about them, of course, he's going to say like, yeah, I like them and offer a little specific, but, but that one stuck out to me in particular, because the thing you would be concerned about when it comes to Jaden Daniels is how is he going to play with that rhythm going through the reads in Kevin O'Connell's offense?

Because if you can't do that, then you're not going to be very successful. And so that's the fact that he's been more of a deep passer, less of an on time and rhythm passer than some other quarterbacks, has made me think, all right, maybe Drake May would be a better fit. And the fact that Washington just seems so perfect for him to go there, that's why I think we haven't brought him up quite enough. But if there was a scenario where the Vikings were able to get up to three before draft day and assuming Washington is not telling them what they're doing. I think that would tell us that the Vikings would be

comfortable with a scenario where Jaden Daniels ends up as the third pick or as Drake may, if they're going to give up everything to go to three and Washington hasn't told anybody, they haven't put it out there. Then that would tell us that they're comfortable with that. Now, if they go up to four, that means probably they're okay more with JJ McCarthy or that, you know, they might believe what Tom Pellicero said,

which is that, you know, maybe JJ McCarthy ends up going number two overall. So I think that with the Vikings and their connection to Jaden Daniels, as they were there today at his pro day to have a meeting with him, that the fit in my mind at first, when I first think about it, I'm not quite as sure that it's as clear of a fit. When I think about McCarthy, you can really see,

okay, what's his biggest strength? It's this guy is supposed to process really well. He's supposed to understand an offense, his mind, his communication abilities, all those things. So it's very easy to just connect, okay, this to that. And with Drake May, the way that he throws the football, you can make a pretty easy connection, right? Like just, all right, the way that he throws the football, you can make a pretty easy connection, right? Like just, all right, the way that he just purely throws a football, his size, the anticipation he throws with.

But, you know, May in 2022 was, I think, a little bit different of a quarterback in terms of playing within his offense because their offense was just better. So that's going to be taken into account by Kevin O'Connell. And we've seen Jordan Love. We've seen Josh Allen, many other quarterbacks who had a worse final season than they did their second to last year. And it's still turned out okay for them. I think Trevor Lawrence was that way, right? His second to last year was better than his final year.

And all of us would take Trevor Lawrence on the Vikings with the receivers and everything else. So, you know, I look at Jaden Daniels as I would be nervous about a few things. Number one, still, even though he was 210 pounds today, you're still a little nervous about the size. You are still a little nervous about the way that he will run himself into hits because we saw that from Jaron Hall. he will run himself into hits because we saw that from jaron

hall if you run yourself into hits you're gonna have some problems uh and you are gonna get injuries and that worries me about jayden daniels so there are things there and also when it came to certain specifics of certain routes where it was all right it looks like he's gotta wait till someone comes out of their break before he decides to throw the ball. And he doesn't have this blazing fast release. So it's not like as soon as he sees it, he could just let it go. There's gotta be some ramp up there. He has a really, really, really nice deep ball. He has good touch on the ball over the middle and his statistics throwing to every area of the field are good.

So I'm not worried about too many things there. It's really just, is he going to be able to run things on time or is it going to look a little bit like Justin Fields? And if we go to Justin Fields numbers and his circumstances, that's, that's kind of the biggest fear. If you're the Vikings would be that Jaden Daniels ends up looking like fields. I think Daniels might be a better prospect than Justin Fields was, but throwing the football and his actual throwing ability was one of the biggest things with fields. That was,

was a major upside for him. And there have been a few people who have said to me, like there's a little bit of Tyrod Taylor of, and look, Tyrod was a sixth round draft pick. So I'm not saying that that's exactly the same, but the Tyrod Taylor was hold onto the ball, hold onto the ball, pressure gets sacked, but also has amazing ability to throw the ball deep down the field. Tyrod Taylor gets hurt a lot. So, you know, I mean, I do think think that there are there are things that you would be

very concerned about but then on the other side let's talk about the other side the upside of jayden daniels is what the mvp of the league right i mean that's that's the upside of jayden daniels is that even if there are certain elements of his game that would not be flawless, that he has an opportunity with his raw talent to be one of the best players in the entire NFL. And we have seen this from running quarterbacks over and over again, that oftentimes they are doubted because they're pegged as running quarterbacks. Like, sorry, Jalen Hurts, you're a running quarterback. We can't draft you.

Sorry, Lamar Jackson, you're a running quarterback. We can't take you at the top. And I think that those types of quarterbacks have proven people wrong. And even if it was a small sample size with Anthony Richardson, you saw the shift in the way the NFL thought with the Anthony Richardson pick, where suddenly those guys who were going late in the first and the second,

that they are now being taken at the very top of the draft because teams know you can build a lot of things into that. But also what Kevin O'Connell's talking about, if Jaden Daniels goes through his reads and nothing's there, can build a lot of things into that but also what kevin o'connell's talking about if jayden daniels goes through his reads and nothing's there he can create 50 yards with his legs and that is not something that we have seen in quite a while but he really does have the ability to be one of the best players in the nfl and i think that that's true for three guys in this draft. I think that's true for Caleb Williams, Jaden Daniels, and Drake May. I don't think that any of the other quarterbacks have the

potential to be one of the best players in the NFL to where if you were doing an all player draft that you'd be talking about any of the other guys, that doesn't mean they can't win. It doesn't mean with JJ McCarthy, you can't mean with jj mccarthy you can't go to a super bowl with a good enough team or with michael pennix the way he throws the football but as far as special goes this is why even despite some of the things that i would be a little bit anxious about or i guess curious to see if they get corrected or how they work around them with jayden daniels you have to be okay with the pick if the vikings ended up landing him because of the ceiling because of the potential being through the roof even though when i watch i go oh come on throw the ball no

don't take that sack oh whoa he took the sack, uh, he took the sack. And, uh, there's a couple of times where he takes some really, really hard hits. And that is not something that I particularly love about his game. And the other part of it too, there's enough, there's a couple other downsides to Jaden Daniels. Number one is that he is 23 years old. So he is a one year kind of guy only when he was that age and then had the incredible team around him. But for every criticism, there's always another side of it where you go, wait a minute, didn't Joe Burrow do the exact same thing? And if you just envisioned in your brain, Justin Jefferson,

Jordan Addison, TJ Hawkinson, Aaron Jones in the backfield, Jaden Daniels running ability. I really do think that that has potential to be at the top of the league as far as offense goes, if it works. If it doesn't work, the guy's going to get hurt or he's going to throw late on a bunch of passes that in college it wouldn't matter. But in the NFL, it does. And there's going to be interceptions and it's going to be a struggle or there's going to be a lot of sacks. I mean, that's the thing that I worry about really the most with quarterbacks who hang on to the ball like Jaden Daniels, because Justin Fields, for example, he has a sack rate in his career of 12%, which is so bad. I mean, that's unacceptably bad. And that's one of the reasons why he's not a starting quarterback.

That means 12 out of 100 times you're dropping back, six times per 50, which you might have to do in Kevin O'Connell's offense. You're getting sacked in the backfield. If that's the case, it's very hard to win when you take that many sacks. So that's still the biggest concern for me is that when he gets pressured, he takes sacks. That has been something that's correlated to success and failure in the NFL, but everything is noisy.

Everything is just a little bit of a, like, maybe there's something there. Maybe there's not. I mean, with Pennix that I saw a stat today where it was like, well, you know, he scrambles so little here's the other quarterbacks who never scrambled. And it's like Mac Jones or something, you know, and there's always going to be a stat that says, Hey, if you did this, you'll be a star. If you did this, you'll be a failure. But the sack one does concern me the most. The high end, though, the high end of Jaden Daniels is absolute superstar, unstoppable offense,

top five in the league, and that's where I think it has to be exciting to think about the idea of Jaden Daniels. If, of course, Washington were to not pick him and then the Vikings would have that opportunity if they would trade up. Is Jaden Daniels, here's the ultimate question, is Jaden Daniels worth trading the extra first round pick to go up and get? And I'll let you guys answer that in the chat but i think the answer is yes that he is one of those quarterbacks that even despite whatever concern you might have about the sacks or about potential injuries in the future or the

one-year wonder thing when you just when you watch that game against florida that's one of the best college football games by a quarterback i have ever seen in my entire life and you watch that game against Florida, that's one of the best college football games by a quarterback I have ever seen in my entire life. And you watch that game and go, all right, okay, that's a guy who could win a Super Bowl. That's a guy who could win MVP. That's a guy who can lead a top five offense. That would be the most dynamic talent, other than probably Caleb Williams with the Chicago Bears, just by raw talent in the entire NFC. And if you're going to compete for a Super Bowl, that's what you have to do. Even if there are worries, even if there are potential downsides.

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That is surfshark deals slash purple insider. So, uh, we got to get some tickers on the screen here and then we'll get to your questions and comments. Let's first put this up the trade up meter with the Vikings showing up to, uh, the pro day. See the best part about the trade up meter is that I don't remember what I said yesterday on the show. So it's like, where was I yesterday with the trade-up meter is that I don't remember what I said yesterday on the show. So it's like, where was I yesterday with the trade-up meter for the Vikings? Where was I?

I don't remember. So I can just give you a new number every day. I'm not surprised that the Vikings showed up to his pro day. I'm not surprised the Vikings met with him. You know they're going to take a lot of opportunities to meet with all these quarterbacks and so forth the trade-up meter is probably 60 percent right now for me that they do end up trading up it still is going to take somebody else you know moving on and look everyone has a good pro day except for teddy bridgewater we do know that but uh you know at the same time they might

have had an opportunity there to confirm some things and this is what i was thinking about with the trade up meter is so the vikings get 11 and 23 but they didn't do their meetings yet with any of these quarterbacks their private meetings so did kevin o'connell want to do his private meetings before they mash the trade button. Because the way that everybody was talking at the owners meetings sounded like it was very possible that they could trade up. So does Kevin O'Connell want to be sure first? Does he want to get in a room? Does he want to get in a whiteboard?

Does he want to have that one-on-one time with all of these quarterback prospects before he comes back to Kwesi Adafo-Mensa and says, all right, let's use that draft capital that we have. So the trade-up meter is still at around, I think I said that yesterday, about 60%. This doesn't change the trade-up meter that they went to Jadenden daniels um pro day but i think that that is something that i've maybe left out of the formula because we've all been asking when are they going to do this are they going to do it at the the party at the owners meetings at the breakfast is kevin o'connell going to sit down and say all right guys we acquired number three or we acquired number four uh and i didn't consider enough that maybe before they fully decide they want to do it,

they want to have these meetings first. And because there is still time, that could be the case. As far as smokescreen or nah, running across the bottom of the screen, I don't think that interest in Jaden Daniels would be a smokescreen. I still feel like Drake May is more of the Kevin O'Connell quarterback, but going to Jaden Daniels pro day, I don't think is a smokescreen.

I think that there could be legitimate interest there. I'm still trying to like make that comparison though, between May and Daniels where May just seems so much with the way he throws the football that that is his biggest talent it's not just like oh and look daniels throws a great so like i'm not down on daniels but i just think may has the highest potential as a pure passer in the entire draft and we are splitting hairs here because you watched if you watched it you can go on to like a NFL network. Don't leave this show, but do it later to go on and look at the pro day highlights from

Jaden Daniels. And what you can get from that is just how he looks throwing the ball, how smooth it comes out of his hand, the touch that he has, uh, throwing those balls that are, you know, 25 yards down the field and the touch he could put on them. It's impressive. He, that man knows how to throw a football but i think may has the highest potential as a pure passer and that is still what kevin o'connell won the super bowl with in los angeles you know he had with kirk cousins somebody who was a pure passer but if they trade up to three that means they're

comfortable with anything. And I also think that coming out of the owner's meetings, it was just so clear that they wanted to, that they wanted to trade up. So I don't think it is a, it is a smoke screen. One thing I am missing, and maybe you guys can help me out with, and I hunted, what's our rumor of the day? I was was hunting i was trying to find a rumor of the day and uh i could not come up with one today that was that was like super hot rumor uh in the same way that like jj mccarthy at two was the other day so if you saw a rumor then let's see it but if the vikings gave up the house would you be okay with it for Jaden Daniels? And my answer is a hundred percent.

Yes. A hundred percent. Yes. And Todd is all in on that as well. Says a hundred percent worth it. I agree. Anytime someone has the potential to be a superstar, I'm interested. And sometimes that fails and you know

glenn says rg3 reborn i mean that might be the case but you know one thing i think we see from well look rg3 also he was totally mishandled with that injury obviously should not have been playing so there's that if he doesn't get that injury what does he become and the answer might be one of the best quarterbacks the entire NFL I also wonder and I don't know this but it seems like Jaden Daniels has maybe a better head on his shoulder than RG3 did when he was a player that's not to speak to who rg3 is as a person but at that time as a player was he i mean you see him going back and forth on twitter with jay gruden and things like that like was he a good fit personality wise for that level of stardom that fast was he able to handle a lot of complex things for the offense because you look

at what they did in that breakout rookie season where they ran all these bootlegs and then he would just take off and that's not something you can do for a whole career so was he able to handle more than just being that guy who was throwing bombs or scrambling but think about this if you took rg3's talent and you put it into a dude who maybe understood football a little bit better at the highest level. And again, I didn't cover RG3. I don't know him. I'm not making these accusations.

It just strikes me as being that way. But maybe understands his offense a little better. Doesn't play for one of the worst franchises in pro sports of the last 20 years uh in washington and doesn't have that knee injury you could be talking about one of the best quarterbacks in the nfl so when you say rg3 reborn i'm kind of like i would think that was amazing but you might be saying it is maybe thinking that you're down on it uh man juice nice to see you uh says my biggest question uh in all these is it already seems like we're giving and giving uh when when is it nailed and no more uh i'm sorry

what does that say no more accommodations i'm not sure what you mean uh i'm not sure what you mean like does that mean like giving up draft capital like giving so much draft capital to get Jane Daniels? Because you're going to have to do that. You're going to have to give up a lot of draft capital in order to get anybody in the top three because I think that it's a draft that has three players who could be the MVP of the league. And no more than that.

And the rest could still win the Superbowl and I'd be totally fine with the other quarterbacks. And I'm going to be trying to, you know, get some more guests in here. Like I did today with Farhan Lalji, if you can go watch that later about Michael Pennix. And I think Michael Pennix under the right circumstances or Bo Nix or JJ McCarthy can win. But even under the wrong circumstances, I think that Jaden Daniels can be special based on entirely with his, with his skill. than most quarterbacks. And you mix in the fact that his passing statistics this year in the SEC are as good as anybody who has ever played college football. I mean, it's pretty wild. Like the way that he emerged this season to play the way that he did. I mean, 40 touchdowns, four picks.

It's just, this is insane. 11 yards, an attempt, just crazy. CJ says, what if Daniels turned out to be the mini-me version of Dante Culpepper? Big runs and chuck it deep to Jefferson. Well, what we know about Dante Culpepper, and you think about the circumstances as well, Culpepper had downside to his game. He fumbled like crazy, and he had the small hands that people talked about, the Burger King hands, the old Burger King commercial.

I actually, I mean, he had hands like that did not fit the size of the man, which was crazy. But when you think about like how much they were able to win or the offensive numbers they were able to put up with Dante Culpepper, even despite some of the downsides to his game, that just sort of tells you what you can do with a quarterback who can make a difference running the football and throwing the ball deep in the way that he could. And Culpepper showed in 2004 that he wasn't just even a product of Randy Moss because

that year Moss was banged up and didn't have a great season. And Culpepper had one of the best seasons ever. And Culpepper had an ownership that was cheap at the time. That was not the Vikings current ownership. They played in, you know, the dome, uh, not us bank stadium. They didn't have the facilities that they have. Uh, I think that they kind of manipulated Culpepper with the contract situation. A lot of things happen. And then then the defense oh my gosh the defense during call pepper's time was an absolute tragedy and yet they won a lot of

football games and they went to the nfc championship and they beat the packers at lambeau and what happened with call pepper was over the first few years he became not just a quarterback who threw deep, but a complete quarterback. There's a game worth watching on YouTube. I'm making all these suggestions for you. Like don't again, like save these for later. But there's a game that he played against the Indianapolis Colts and spoiler, the Vikings don't win, but he's playing against Peyton Manning and they are throwing just haymakers at each other. It's so much fun to watch. And the entertainment value of someone like Jaden Daniels, if he were to turn out to be similar to Dante Culpepper would just be through the roof. And if you plopped Culpepper into this situation right here, you're talking about the

Vikings being maybe the best team in the NFL, uh NFL outside of, you know, whatever, a couple other behemoths. But if that's how your quarterback turned out, and that's why I have to, even though I have my own questions about Daniels, I have to say yes to that idea to give up whatever it takes. I would still do it for him. I still look at may as the guy that I think Kevin O'Connell would like the most, but I would still do it for Jaden Daniels, uh, to go all the way up, even though there are risks. Uh, Remy says we don't really run RPO. Uh, you know, you can run what you want to run. Um, you know, Kevin O'Connell, uh, worked with, I believe he worked with Chip Kelly at a time. Maybe it was that in San Francisco. I'm trying to think, uh, worked with, I believe he worked with Chip Kelly at a time. Maybe it was that in San Francisco. I'm trying to think, uh, I don't think that Kevin O'Connell is incapable of implementing things that would benefit a running quarterback, but what that's where I go back to his comment

to Paul Allen, where he's talking about a lot of Jaden Daniels runs are scrambles. They're not just designed runs, but they're scrambles where he's gone through the rhythm of the offense and then he's taking off. And that's effective even when you're not that fast. I mean, case Keenum a few times took advantage of that. Patrick Mahomes takes advantage of that, but it's the playmaker's mindset of all right i'm not seeing it so i'm just going i'm going to make a play that is extremely hard to defend and then you see teams having to put somebody on that guy if you have that element and so i think when we do compare them to other you know running quarterbacks there are some

quarterbacks that you design more of a run game for, and that was like Cam Newton. And maybe O'Connell looks at Jaden Daniels where you don't have to really design a run game for him so much as the scrambles are going to be the run game that he adds. And hey, they would actually probably rank pretty highly in rushing yards if that were the case.

Bron Frick at Solo says, not only can they run KOC's offense, can they adapt to the speed of the NFL and how soon? Well, you know, that's, I mean, first of all, with eyeballs, I don't know. I don't know how feet and eyes that Kevin O'Connell talks about all the time, how quick those can adapt.

That is my biggest question, is how fast Jaden Daniels eyeballs in reading plays, seeing them develop in front of him and throwing with anticipation as O'Connell really asks his quarterbacks to do how fast he could get up to speed or if he can ever get up to speed with doing that in the same way that some other quarterbacks in this draft do. So that is my biggest question when I watch him play is, can he do those things that Kevin O'Connell is asking you to do? Because there's sort of non-negotiables of anybody's offense. O'Connell clearly does not like it when people ask him, And he's always very nice about everything, but you could tell

it irks him just a little bit when people sort of imply that he couldn't fix the offense to a running quarterback with Josh Dobbs. He doesn't seem to like that because I think he thinks, come on guys, the guy showed up in the middle of last season. I couldn't ask 11 players to change the whole offense. But there are non-negotiables. And look, they're going to run a concept called Dagger where you have, and this is, they love this. They run this all the time, where you have one guy clear out and another guy runs a deep dig underneath. And if you don't read that correctly and you don't throw that on time correctly,

it's going to get picked off. And that's just a fact of life of an O'Connell and an NFL offense that, you know, Jaden Daniels is going to have to be able to execute. So they're going to know that better than me from watching his tape. I just didn't see a lot of that. I didn't see a ton of like rhythm and timing throws, but also in the 2023 Drake may, there wasn't a lot of that either because his offense was bad. So, you know, there, I mean, he did that more, he did some of those deep ends and stuff like that more, but you know, like both guys, there's going to have to be this next step that they have to take. Uh, and that is very hard to predict. So todd says jayden daniels has a higher ceiling

than lamar i'm calling it uh no one has a higher ceiling than lamar like lamar jackson is a two-time mvp he's one of the five best players in the nfl and what lamar has really done since he got in the league after his first year is proven how darn effective he can be throwing the football and if jayden daniels could do that and then he could be a superstar but if you draft a guy and he becomes a two-time mvp who wins what is it like seven out of every 10 games in his career eight out of every 10 games for lamar jackson and is in the afc championship and the only reason he doesn't win is because mahomes beats him and because his receiver what what, what did it, what,

uh, didn't, uh, say flowers fumble the ball into the end zone. Like, yeah, I mean, it's, it's his ceiling is being at that MVP level. I do not think that his ceiling is higher. And one of the things is that Lamar is actually really good at throwing the ball on time that he will scramble and he'll do crazy stuff, but he actually does throw a lot like step back, read where he's supposed to go and get rid of the football. But yeah, I mean like if you look at that as the absolute best version is what RG three could have been,

what Lamar Jackson is, then that's, that's a reason to do it. Will anyone actually, will anyone else see the same thing and say, we're not going to do it? That's really the question. And that's exactly what Randy asks is, do you think Washington is going to want both firsts this year

and two future firsts? Yeah, probably, maybe. I mean, two future firsts would be wild. But also, is it time? Is it time to just go bleep them picks and give up whatever it takes to be able to get them? Because the seal and look, if you blow it, you're in a lot of trouble. If you blow it at 11, you're not in as much trouble.

And if you blow it at 23, it doesn't, you know, whatever, right? Like it's fine. You'll just find somebody else. So when you're talking about where you give up four firsts, that's, it is like crazy town a little bit of going all, all, all, all, all in, because you're not going to have those first round players. And O'Connell has repeatedly brought up like, Hey, if we drafted 11 or 23 we're getting a monster defensive player he's even like laid this scenario out uh sometimes kevin o'connell talks so much that and it's it's even more confusing than if he said nothing because you're like wait a minute he talked about this he loved

this no wait a minute he talked about that other thing and loved that too but he there it's risk levels for first round picks for jaden Daniels is risk level midnight. Like that is just through the roof of if this guy doesn't work out, if he gets injured, you are just completely up a Creek as an organization. But the one thing about the Vikings where you can do this is that the hard part is already done. And when the Rams gave up all of their picks to go get the players, if you looked at their roster, they already had a superstar

wide receiver, a complete offensive line, the greatest defensive player of a generation, and using the picks, they got one of the greatest shutdown corners of the decade. So they already had the difficult part done, which is to get mega star talent and the Vikings, at least at wide receiver. And I think close to left tackle, like Christian Derrissaw is not even fully in his prime yet and is one of the better tackles in the league. So I count him as that that superstar talent but you've already got a top five receiving tight end you've already got a top notch top five wide receiver and you've got a top five left tackle and you've probably got a top five if assuming that he is a little bit better this year after recovering fully from some injuries last year brian o'neill i would put up there in

the top as far as right tackles go, probably the top five to 10 right tackles. That gives you a lot of talent that you already have that you don't have to go find by using first round draft picks. And it puts you in a position to potentially do that. Scott says Daniels is a better version of Anthony Richardson, who they reportedly wanted last year they're they're a little bit different in that uh like anthony richardson was 20 i think last year so if anthony richardson was given like think about jayden daniels when he was 20 wasn't

even good when he was 20 years old and then actually if you look at like that would be the argument of like anthony richardson of wanting him is that he would eventually have become the way that jayden daniels throws the ball uh anthony richardson also from a build perspective and he and he got hurt so it doesn't always mean you know you're going to get hurt or not but from a build perspective is one of the most impressive people that's ever stepped on a football field at that position. And Daniels does have a little bit of a different, you know, build to him. I also think that Anthony Richardson, and I don't know Daniels as well as this.

I didn't watch as much of him live. And I feel like you get a sense for a game when you're watching it live, not just like a replay, you know where you're just watching on tv taking in like all the what are the sideline shots look like what of what is the um you know just the the the way that he handles himself he had such a bad team and handled it really well played hard against georgia with an injury like richards Richardson had all these great, like, super high moments that were very NFL-ish in battling through things, taking on tough competition, and was also just such a powerhouse. He's a little bit different in that way.

Daniels is probably what they thought Anthony Richardson could become, but also, Anthony Richardson threw the football on time. He would just throw it inaccurately at times on the dumbest routes it would just be like a check down and he would throw it right in the ground he'd be like ar what's going on there uh but then he would let a 20 yard dig route and this is probably what um kevin o'connell liked the most that when richardson was throwing those balls over the middle he just put so much on them. I mean, he could really toast that football. So it's a little different. Like I don't see

Daniels to me does not have the strongest arm. It's strong, but it's not the same as an Anthony Richardson or even Michael Pennix. And so is there going to be a little bit of concern about throwing some of those routes that require tight windows and doing it on time richardson threw a lot of the ball on time that was the crazy thing it was like he would just have the dumbest inaccurate passes sometimes but also his completion percentage was overstated because he had a ton of drops um lamar had that a little bit too uh let's see let's see uh love the tickers I love the tickers too. I I'm all for ideas of more hilarious and ridiculous tickers. If you guys, um, if you guys have ideas, uh, let's see. BS stuff says it makes perfect sense for KOC to meet with the quarterbacks

before risking his career on trading the farm for quarterback. Yeah know that's something that i just did not factor and think about enough is that um like they would want to take a closer look first that is something that i really didn't factor enough when talking about hey why haven't they made this move yet why haven't they made this move yet that might be why they made this move yet? That might be why. I think that's a very reasonable explanation for why. And they didn't say that because at the owners meetings, they were sort of half admitting to want to trade up and half not like, yeah, you know, if it's an option, we might consider it.

But yes, we would do it. But I'm not saying we would do it. I don't know. What is what is tampering, by the way? I don't know. But I'm not saying we would do it i don't know what is uh what is tampering by the way i don't know but i'm not i'm not saying they were tampering i'm just making fun of the the kirk thing i'll move on uh a purpley uh maybe your name uh quacey has shown that uh if either it's cousin's contract or jj's extension that he does not rush it. Smart actually so far, you never know of Kirk's Achilles, what can happen. So yeah, no, that's a good point.

Oh, sorry. I'm twitching out a little bit here with the camera. Whoa, it's tweaking out a little bit. Sorry. I think I, oh no, did I bump into my, sorry about that. I think I bumped into my computer. I'm throwing my hands all over, getting excited about quarterbacks, football. But to your point, you're right,

that they have been methodical with everything they've done. And even think about to last year, they didn't cut Delvin Cook until the last minute at, was it, minicamp that they cut Delvin Cook after minicamp? They were methodical about that, and they were patient about that. And we kept saying, what is going to happen with Delvin? What is going to happen with Delvin? What's going on?

Actually, it's good for content when Kweisi Adafomensa is slower with some of these things. But you make a good point, a very smart point, that nothing they've done has ever been like reactionary or super, super fast. Like they've taken their time, even with the Justin Jefferson contract extension, they didn't last year. And maybe this will turn out to be a mistake, but I'm not sure, but they didn't last year do that. And they were willing to take their time. And sometimes it can be to a detriment, but also it has to be considered by us as we're evaluating like why haven't they

moved up yet um kevin o'connell a handle on youtube presumably not you kevin but if it's you good to see you again sir uh says uh mock drafts matter because owners will always ask why the player they drafted so high was mocked so low. That is maybe true, but I don't know. I mean, somebody said a while back, I think it was Kevin Cole, who used to work for PFF and now does his own thing, Unexpected Points newsletter, really good analyst. He's been on the show. He said that he looks at the draft as grading as like a as grading the outside world like how well

did you guys get it right because the reality of the nfl is that they do botch it and we know that they do botch it but historically speaking they do a very good job of categorizing where players should be and i think they do a better job than mock drafters and reporters at doing that. So who are the first round picks? Who are the second round talents? Historically, they're very good at it. And like, you look at this last year in the playoffs, Brock Purdy, of course, is the outlier. And then I think the other seven of the final eight are first round draft picks. Like they're very good at, um, at, uh, figuring out like what, uh, players belong in what areas of the draft.

So it's sort of an interesting thought that we can't predict who's going to succeed, but they are good at figuring out who should go where. So let's see. CJ says, not the house for Daniels or JJ. Yes, for May. So what's the difference there? It, I think it might be that may comes across a little bit better of a fit. I have felt that if that's what your opinion is, I have felt that as well, but if they did it, so put it this way,

if they gave up everything and I mean everything, these two first and two more first that's crazy crazy draft capital that you are throwing at another team in order to get up to the top and it is also should be considered like if you're doing that it has to be the patriots you can't give that much draft capital to an nfc team otherwise you're really you're just asking for that team to beat you in the NFC championship for Vikings history. You're just begging for that to happen. But if you were to give up four firsts to go to number three, to take Jaden Daniels, I would say, wow, scary, but I get it. And off we go. This is is going to be nuts let's see how this plays out if they do it for drake may i would go i would say all right this makes total sense that is a

koc quarterback if i've ever seen one he looks like matt stafford he throws the ball like matt stafford he makes mistakes like matt stafford like Like, there you go. That's a quarterback that just fits so perfectly by all of his skill sets that it's worth giving up everything. If they did it for McCarthy, then I'm going to say that's a lot. That is a lot, a lot. And now there's a mega risk to that. That is in the red as far as risk goes with McCarthy because you're talking about betting on how much someone will develop

over the next couple years, where in 2022, we saw the highest end of Drake May. It was really spectacular. And in 2023, we saw Jaden Daniels, where you don't have to really use your imagination to see where the ceiling would be with those quarterbacks which is quite a bit different than i think jj mccarthy uh alex uh asked given how badly the vikings want to trade up and how loud the teams two through five were saying uh they're open and moving back my trade market or trade meter

is 90 hold on one second hold on let's uh let's make sure we got this when people mention the trade meter trade me at 90 you're at the the only reason i'm not at 90 is that i wondered if some of that like everybody's saying they're open for business, is just what everybody always says at the top of the draft. No one ever says we're not open for business. Maybe Chicago would be the one team that might say it. And they might just be saying like, look, if you want to go absolutely Herschel Walker level,

which got brought up a couple of times throughout this whole thing, then all right, we'll listen to you but other than that no i think the most legit is the patriots and arizona um you know the chargers probably are as well because if you move back to 11 you could get a first round offensive lineman or receiver that you need 90 90% is a lot. I think there's 90% is just a lot. I don't know that there's a 90% chance of anything in the draft. Like that's, that's very, very high. I can't go higher than 60 just because I know it is really hard to make one of those trades up, but I don't think you're crazy. It's just like a little bit high for me to say 90%.