Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Tyler Dunne makes the case for the Vikings culture making a difference

Episode Date: June 1, 2022

Matthew Coller talks live with former Bleacher Report reporter Tyler Dunne, who runs now runs the NFL site GoLongTD talk about the Minnesota Vikings' culture improvement and how it might impact the 2022 season, whether they did the right thing staying the course, how Kevin O'Connell will be different from Mike Zimmer and which Vikings ill-fated event Tyler would change. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to a very special episode of Purple Insider slash Go Longs. I am sitting here in Egan with Tyler Dunn of Go Long, formerly of Bleach Report, former Packers beat reporter, former Buffalo Bills beat reporter, and we just enjoyed some pizza and tacos, and now we're here to talk some football. What's going on, Tyler? You're in town. You're in Minnesota. What's up? It is phenomenal to be here with the man, the myth, the legend, Matthew Collar. On your turf, I missed the Midwest man I lived in Wisconsin for about four and a half years have been out here to Vikings country a handful of

times the I don't know what it is but maybe maybe it's that Minnesota nice I'm an outsider so they're not nice to me but they're nice it's different though than buffalo for sure like and and the east in general it took me quite a while to get used to how people treat each other differently because like you said there's a there is absolutely a niceness to it but there's also if someone doesn't like something you're doing it's so much harder to figure it out like in buffalo you know it immediately if someone doesn't like you but here it's like oh wait that guy spent six months like talking to me nicely and then didn't actually like me at all wow that's strange to find out so like you know and and even the way that people actually talk to you online

fans of teams is different because a lot of times in buffalo it would just be like mfu go away but now to be like you know i didn't really like what you go away. But now it'd be like, you know, I didn't really like what you said about Kirk cousins. And you're like, Oh, okay. Like, and then, and then someone had to tell me, Oh no, that person's really mad at you. That's the Midwest, uh, Wisconsin and Minnesota are even different. Oh yeah. I mean, it's Wisconsin. It was, you could go to a bar. I mean, I did this when I first moved to Wisconsin in July of 2011. Didn't know many people outside of the media. Went to a bar, Fox Harbor Pub right on Washington Street and made three, four friends that I keep in touch with to this day. I mean, you could do that anywhere. It's that Wisconsin heartfelt, you know, bring you in for a bear hug and, you know, buy you a 10 Miller Lite, kind of nice. I think that's a little different from Minnesota. I think that people, like even people that I worked with before in radio,

like they're not going to say, why don't you come over for a barbecue, buddy? Like they kind of want you to do your own thing. Really give you an arm's length? Yeah, like that's kind of how it is, I think. That's funny because that's what I did on a lot of, you know, if we wanted to watch football, it was a Thursday night game, and I'm in town. Kyle Cusino, Tommy Kniegge were two of my best friends in town.

We went to Tommy's house. He cooked out. He made scallop-wrapped or bacon-wrapped scallops. You know, that was his go-to. But, yeah, it was exactly what you just said is what we did all the time. So what years did you cover the packers it would have been 2011 2012 2013 2014 into 2015 offseason and then i went to the buffalo news to cover year one of uh rex ryan which was insane it really was insane but you know i will give rex this he wasn't doug marone he was not the players you not to jump in, but that's what was crazy is the players loved not having Doug Marone

because they felt like they could be themselves and adults, and they didn't have somebody breathing over their shoulder. But then if you got them on a whiteboard and broke down the defense, all the defensive players would have told you that they couldn't stand Rex Ryan, and they missed Jim Schwartz. So it was this weird dichotomy of, like, we hate the plays he's calling and like what we're actually doing out there but we love him as a human being and we want to run through a wall for him before every game so I have a fun question for you but we'll get to that because you you're sort of going down a path here

that is relevant and maybe part of the reason you're here but I don't want to ruin a future story for you that you'll publish on go long. But going from Mike Zimmer to Kevin O'Connell reminds me very much of that exact same transition you're talking about of going from Doug Marone to Rex Ryan, because it was the classic. This guy is the big meanie. Now we're going to the players coach. And I remember Rex coming in and immediately people inside the building started talking about how he was treating everyone better. Like the digital media people were treated better.

The guy who does the Bills radio was treated better. And I think that that's the case here instantly with Kevin O'Connell. But I also think that there are drawbacks to being the guy who isn't the disciplinarian? And I would just love your opinion, having covered a number of coaches and then written on the national level about that balance, which I think is one of the most difficult things in sports to figure out, how to be the guy that all the players like but also be the guy in charge. Right, and I appreciate the plug for the full story, right? GoLongTD.com. Subscribe today, tomorrow tomorrow whenever you'd like

we'll have several stories from this trip in beautiful Minnesota coming out over the coming weeks and months but it's such a great point I feel like every NFL owner wrestles over that and if they don't they should because it's such a balance I I really don't know what the answer is because you saw the dark side of being player friendly with Rex Ryan too often. I mean, it was chaos. I mean, I'm really mad at myself as I'm sure everybody on the beat is that we didn't just keep diaries of what happened every single day and wrote a book on that all. I mean, I can remember being at Pittsburgh Pub at training camp with my buddies Matt Fairburn, Mike Rodak. Some guys on the beat were all just kind of hanging out. And there's Rex Ryan with the GM, Doug Whaley, who's on our podcast a lot now.

And he confirmed it. They're in the corner and they're having this serious conversation. And we're like, well, something's going on here at the bar. What is it? And the next day they signed I.K. and Polly, who had just punched out Geno Smith in New York. And that was like the 97th craziest thing that happened to the Bills that season.

So it was just non-stop madness. I mean, you had LaShawn McCoy talking crap about Chip Kelly ahead of that game. You had Aaron Cromer getting in fights over beach chairs, which, by the way, he's the Bills offensive line coach again. Go look up that story if you're not familiar with it. Aaron Cromer literally fought a teenager over a beach chair.

Right. Football. The choir boy in town was Richie Incognito, right, fresh off his suspension. So it was madness, and I just feel like you don't want to go to that extreme I mean you want guys to be themselves and it was great I mean we had an accurate portrayal of the team because Rex said whatever the hell he wanted to so the players said whatever they wanted to and it made for it made it made the job fun that was maybe the most rewarding year I've ever had covering football just because because it was real journalism, day in and

day out, ups and downs. And anyways, I feel like it just went a little too far. And in terms of the balance, I think where it was really off balance was guys just didn't buy into the scheme. He just, it just, when you got to the actual football and the X's and O's, it just didn't work with the personnel that they had. Defensively, the checks on checks on checks, and it was just so different from see ball, get ball with Jim Schwartz and a really good defense that flustered the heck out of Aaron Rodgers

and Peyton Manning when Peyton Manning was still really good in Denver. All of a sudden, defensively, they can't get to the quarterback, and they win eight games. I feel like Kevin O'Connell, being player-friendly and creating a culture that makes players excited to go to work every day, all that stuff matters, and they had that in Buffalo. But they have to respect what you're doing on that whiteboard and respect the scheme and the offense that he's implementing

and the defense, all of that. And if you can do both of those things, then you're going to win games. Right, and I think that last year, respect for the scheme, and sorry if airplanes go over. We were, like, directly in a line of airplane going over from time to time, so I apologize for that. Can't be worse than the time that I did a pod inside of O'hare airport and every like four minutes was you know boarding for philadelphia or whatever can't be worse than that but can't be worse than some audio quality that maybe folks have heard

here on our go-long feed which they should know that this this co-host of mine on this episode has cleaned up many of many an episode audio wise and we're working on it. We had a nice talk about audio before this. Call it a skill. A skill. As a former producer in Buffalo, I worked with audio a lot. So the clean, brilliant audio that the Purple Insider podcast subscribers get, yeah, there's some work that goes into that. But when it comes to Kevin O'Connell,

the challenge of getting all of those boxes checked is immense because they have to respect the scheme. And I don't think they did last year under Clint Kubiak. Maybe part of it is just the sheer nepotism of it. Maybe it was this guy has never called plays before. And it's like they were in a year where people could get fired. And they're saying, first time for everything. It's like, whoa, what? but then you end up hearing later and this is what i wanted to discuss with you a little more is about mike zimmer and just your reporting on mike zimmer and i want to kind of reflect on that a

little because you were on the show after you published a a big piece on zimmer i think it was what before 2020 it was actually I launched go long midway into 2020 late November 2020 so it was you know things started so poorly but then they got a little better it's like this could go either direction right right right and that was kind of really in a lot of ways what your story was was like Mike Zimmer has alienated a lot of people but also a lot of players think he's a really good coach and this is what we're looking to find out with Kevin O'Connell is I think we know that players are going to like you, but at Donatello scheme, like that's going to matter. And your offensive scheme, can you be Sean McVay? And if you're not Sean McVay, well,

then they're going to go, why aren't you Sean McVay throughout that process? But the Mike Zimmer thing, it's sort of like we did the autopsy of the Mike Zimmer era and then we all kind of moved along. But you wrote so much on that. And I guess I wondered what you thought, because we haven't really talked since he got fired and that they've decided to kind of completely wash out everything. And also blame everything on Mike Zimmer in many ways, because they didn't change fundamentally who they are elsewhere, especially a quarterback. Long time coming, right? I mean, maybe a year or two or three overdue. Yeah, you can really talk yourself into either direction

with the Minnesota Vikings. I mean, this is either a team that's been middling in mediocrity that should slam the reset button and start over. And what are you doing with Kirk Cousins? What are you doing with some of these aging guys on defense? Just get everybody out of here and start over. And that's really what a lot of new regimes do when they come in is they hit that button.

I mean, look at this offseason. So many teams did it. I mean, the Bills did it after they canned, you know, Doug Whaley and my co-host Jim Monis. I mean, they hit reset, and then they still made the playoffs. And then they kind of hit a mini reset again and went 6-10, and then they've been in the playoffs since. So I just give the Minnesota Vikings new regime credit for coming in

and kind of assembling late in the game. I mean, Kevin O'Connell was hired so, so late because they won the Super Bowl, obviously. And instead of just rushing into that reset, they took the time to analyze their own personnel, analyze Kirk Cousins, match what their vision was with the players on the roster. And it maybe wasn't very popular with a large portion of the fan base but I think it's ballsy in a lot of ways and I kind of like it it's different and I mean they're look at the NFC who really scares you in the NFC

I know I could talk myself into the Vikings being legitimate contenders I'm sure a lot of fans can and it all boils down to the point of, okay, can Kevin O'Connell do with Kirk Cousins what Sean McVay was able to do with Matthew Stafford? Because the two quarterbacks' careers have been very, very similar in many ways. Do you just have to work around the fringes with Kirk Cousins, and is a little tweaking going to get him to that next level, or is he kind of what he is

it boils down to that but it's it's I don't know I kind of like the fact that they didn't just take a hacksaw to everything I think I think that was important because they can win with this group I mean I know that the DVOA and all the analytics and everything tell you that this is a 500 team right but eight of their nine losses were by a touchdown or less they think that they're contenders with a little this little that maybe they are we're gonna find out yeah I mean I think that there's a lot of reason to be skeptical of that because when you make the comparison between Kirk and Stafford what can't go forgotten there is that Kirk took over a team that went 13-3. And so we've kind of seen this before, and I think that that's the big struggle in terms of getting on board.

I mean, it is certainly for me for believing that things will be different, and I think for a large portion of the fan base is when you go back to that well, and then you start to really break down that idea that Cousins could be like Stafford. You say, well, OK, well, the Rams had Vaughn Miller and Aaron Donald on defense, right? Like they had Hall of Famers playing on defense. Yeah, I mean, if Daniil Hunter comes back, but Harrison Smith is on the older side. Zedarius Smith. Zedarius Smith they're taking a big risk with.

There's a reason he didn't sign in Baltimore that was never said out loud, but I think we know physical could be related. His contract sort of suggests some issues there. Their secondary is just not good at all. Like, it's going to have to prove that it is with Louis Seen and with Andrew Booth, and if those guys step up instantly, maybe it can be. But Patrick Peterson at $4 million, Cam Dantzler. Like, you're really relying on a lot of things that are totally

different from having jaylen ramsey right uh that i think that they're hoping kind of come true and on the offensive side like they've had these people it isn't like it's oh stafford finally gets this offensive line that was number one graded by pff and pass blocking the vikings will not have the number one graded pass blocking offensive line here's how we know these guys all played last year right so it's like that's where I think that it's kind of a big stretch to think that a coach can come in and be worth like four more wins to a team and that also you know we talk about the things that went wrong with those close games but the things that went right also they six of their eight wins were also by one score right so it's like that's why the analytics and metrics

all tell you well they're they kind of were a 500 team i get that right and that's why you know all the uh power rankers have them like 18th or 22nd or the same power rankers the power rankers man the the the ugly red-headed stepchild of the mock drafter, Matt. I know this is your podcast equipment, but our listeners, they know we're not fans of these people. These folks have heard me talking to this microphone about the draft tweeting and all that sort of stuff. And there's some kind of rant from draft night that was like, I had way too many Diet Dr. Peppers and just lost it about Malik there's some kind of rant from draft night. That was like, I'd had way too many diet, Dr.

Peppers had just lost it about Malik Willis being a third round draft pick. It was like, don't tell me he's generational and then missed by three rounds. Okay. But people got their content for three months, right? They were able to hype him up and loop some highlights and talk to a scout here or there that said nice things.

And there you go. You can wrap some NFL coverage around it for three months and make some money. You certainly can. But, you know, so when it comes to like the NFC North and the NFC in general, if the Vikings were going to make something out of this and like those things that I just talked about being skeptical of that they came to fruition, it's still hard to get me around to them being like the Rams or like the Bucs.

There's this, well, the NFC is weak. It certainly is. But there's also this top four or top five that could play in the AFC and compete. That's kind of the way that I look at it. Unless Tom Brady really falls off. But he'll just, I don't know have another hgh bath and be fine right nobody thinks that he's not doing that right like but anyway no i lebron you know i don't i don't mean to i don't mean to commit slander i'm just kidding tom but uh

that's that's where i that's where i kind of hesitate. Getting them into those teams, I have trouble talking myself into that. Well, it's hard for me to sit here and bang the table for Kirk Cousins because we've seen it year in and year out that he's still prone late in the fourth quarter to be a tick too immobile, maybe not feel that rush until it's too late, get sacked, and fumble. I'm not sitting here saying that he's going to be MVP next season. But I'll sit here and say that I've probably been a little too critical of him

in the past myself in that I feel like you can still talk yourself into this situation. Maybe it's crazy, but I don't know. I mean, the talent around him from a skill position standpoint is as good as it gets in the conference. I mean, yeah, they don't have the Rams offensive line, but the Rams don't have Dalvin Cook. And running backs drafted in like three consecutive years.

I mean, they've got a lot of backs. And a pretty good fullback in C.J. Ham. And pretty good tight end coming back in Irv Smith. And Justin Jefferson may be the best receiver in football next season. Adam Thielen can still play. K.J. Osborne, right? He's coming on. There's a lot

of talent. I think you can talk yourself into the right play caller and the right system that gives him a little bit more freedom at the line of scrimmage. I'm not going to sit here and say he's had terrible offensive coordinators. Kevin Stefanski is going to put you in the best position to succeed. So it's hard to say that he hasn't had an opportunity. But I think that Kevin O'Connell will give him that ability to change things up

maybe at the line of scrimmage like he hasn't been able to in the past. And the offense really wasn't the problem last year. It was the defense. So I don't think the secondary can be any worse. They're only going to get better. And I feel like I'm probably higher on zadaria smith than than most yeah i feel like he can still be that disruptor that you saw in 2019 and 2020 so that's going to free up things for deniel hunter they can move smith around do different things with them if they're just you

know okay on defense that's a huge step up yeah mean, I think that they're a playoff team, and they could win a playoff game or two. And a lot of that is you look around the NFC and you go, eh. It's pretty uninspiring. But I think that we've seen coaching and play calling matter in a big way. I mean, look at San Francisco the last few years. I mean, I am not a Jimmy Garoppolo advocate by any means, and somehow Kyle Shanahan gets that guy into the playoffs,

deep into the playoffs. I think it can make a bigger difference maybe than we think on the sideline, and that Kirk Cousins has enough talent to take advantage of that. Yeah, I mean, I think that when you look at their schedule it is relatively easy like the metric makers put it as no surprise everything is in the middle so they put it as like 16th or something i saw from the metrics people for how easy or how hard it's supposed to be based on vegas lines or however they decide to do it. But when I look at it, I always just look at who plays quarterback for the other team. And they've got to face Aaron Rodgers twice.

But there's a lot of other teams where they are running out Tua and saying, like, all right, well, you're going to go against him. Can you beat him? Probably. Can you beat Mac Jones? Maybe. There's a lot of unknowns. There's Justin Fields.

Can you beat Jared Goff? Probably, even though I think that Detroit will be very improved. So, I mean, I end up kind of swinging along the fence, but only the fence of making the playoffs and not so much the fence of making more out of this. And I guess an outside opinion would be good on this because I've been here covering as much the team as the fans and how they feel about the team because we talk with people every day and there is just this incredible frustration from years of mediocrity so you and i were talking about the joe webb

playoff game that you covered for the packers beat many years ago think about why didn't they stick with the read option after that first drive why Why? It will always be a Vikings question, which hints at my fun question for you a little later. But think about this. So they go to the playoffs in 2012 and just get, you know, their faces kicked in in that game. They make it in 2015, 2017, 2019, and that's it. It's 10 years from now, and there's three playoff appearances.

That is hard for a fan base to deal with when you've had competitive teams, good defenses, a coach who has taken them to higher levels than they were at before, a quarterback that is the third highest cap hit. I think that Kevin O'Connell and Kweisi Adafomensa come into a situation where they could say guys we just got here like what like we can't judge this all in one season but a lot of fans could say uh we've been told year after year that you guys were going to do x y and z in the off season and that was going to get us back to the nfc championship so that's the expectation since you guys stuck with

this very expensive quarterback and so there's kind of like this i don't know if they even realize the pressure from fans who do not have patience for this especially when they didn't take a direction that said hey guys be patient we're going to do things very differently yeah it's a hard sell they They've been jerked around their entire lives. I mean, you're talking about several generations of Viking fans. I mean, maybe I'm jumping the gun on what you're going to get into later, but there are so many what-ifs with this franchise that it'll make your brain blow up. I can't imagine what fans have gone through. So I get the skepticism year in and year out.

It's justified, but, you know, this is a head coach and a general manager that are coming with fresh ideas, new ways of doing things, and that was needed. That was so needed. You know, you're talking about, what, eight years of Rick Spielman and Mike Zimmer together, and I think you

really saw two rounds of things kind of getting old. Right? They come in, young players buy in, they compete, they make a little run, and then guys aren't able to buy in. And then you get some more young guys in, and you bring in Kirk Cousins, and then there's Hope, and then things kind of get old again.

So, you know, good for the Vikings to not convince themselves that they needed to give this a third go-around. And I imagine behind-the-scenes players are probably speaking up. I mean, they've said so much publicly already that it wasn't a friendly environment to work in day in and day out. And I think it, and I always was one to make fun of culture and think it's cliche and, you know, why are you even talking about this BS, but it matters and it matters in tangible ways. It matters in training camp when, gosh, maybe it was OTAs. It was in my story at Go Long.

I should link to it in our podcast post as well. But, you know, offensively, they're trying to work in this RPO stuff because that's what kicked their butts the year before with Philly. In 2018. In 2018, right. And it's driving Zimmer nuts. He hates it. He sees the cards.

He sees what plays are coming, and he specifically calls defensive plays to blow up those plays. It's like you're fighting against yourself there. Let it play out. Let the offense work on some stuff. You're not going to have to deal with that kind of BS anymore. I think everything will be in sync, quote-unquote collaborative. That's the buzzword here but

that's where it is tangible yeah i think that the word that if they used this or the word combination as opposed to culture if they said work environment um but nobody wants to hear that it's work for the players but they have to show up to work and get paid for what they do so it is work but if you worked in a place where your boss was tyrannical in the same way that Zimmer was in a lot of different ways, you would not like that. And I don't know that that would get the most out of you. And that's really what they're putting all their chips to the middle of the table is if we improve the work environment,

then we will get more out of the workers. And again, I know like the players, but they are in this scenario. They're like the employees. If you were to work at, say, the restaurant we're sitting outside of right now, like if your boss, every time someone made a mistake, put it on the big board and called you out for it in front of everybody, would you like that? Like if your boss showed really no compassion,

if your boss got frustrated with every injured player and called them out in the media and things like that, like, would you enjoy that? If there was some equivalent to where you work, like probably not. Right. So, yeah, but that also sort of swings back to what we were talking about with Rex Ryan, where it's like you also do need someone in command right you need someone to really be in charge and everybody to know who the leader is and that's where the delicate balance is now what I did want to ask you though because you did touch on it about the what ifs of this organization so we put this out on Twitter the other day and it got quite a few responses from vikings fans as you would expect uh which alternate result would you want to choose if you're a vikings fan and we made a list uh and i can i can hand you my phone and give you the list of the alternate results that you would choose

and i know that vikings fans already know what they are. Brett Favre, Gary Anderson, the old school fans with the Drew Pearson push off, Randy Moss leaving, Dante Culpepper getting hurt, Teddy Bridgewater getting hurt, Blair Walsh missing a field goal. I'm not even looking at it and I know the list top to bottom. Did I forget one? Teddy Bridgewater's leg doesn't get shoved into an incinerator. Oh, Herschel Walker, of course.

So if you could change one of those results for Vikings fans that you have embraced as friend of the show and writer of the, um, the definitive Mike Zimmer piece for a lot of, a lot, you know, you wouldn't, you would be surprised how many people that I talked to their Vikings fans

that like sort of went back to that. Like, man, I defended Zimmer kind of until some of that stuff, and then I couldn't really anymore. And then this year he really showed at the end, especially what was going on behind the scenes and players finally said it. But of that list, which one would you undo for Vikings fans?

I know that you're really good at pointing out how amazing Dante Culpepper was. And was it 0-4? 0-4. Was a statistical just bonanza of a season. He was unreal. I mean, it was moonball city, just chucking it up like Randall Cunningham with the running ability. Who knows where his career goes if he doesn't get hurt.

But I got to go with Gary Anderson missing that kick, right? That Vikings team, as a young Packers fan growing up in western New York, for whatever reason, I was horrified of that Vikings team. I mean, what they did at Lambeau Field on Monday Night Football when Green Bay had that home-winning streak, they did not lose at Lambeau. Destroyed them. Destroyed them. Destroyed them in the rain. I mean, Randall Cunningham just chucking it up to Jake Reed, Chris Carter, Randy Moss.

It was a joke. I mean, they drafted three cornerbacks in a row the next year just because of Randy Moss. And then you go to the Metrodome later that season. I can still remember Viking fans, maybe some are listening to your podcast right now, they took laser pointers, really popular, and they're sticking the lasers in brett farve's eyes hey green bay actually played them kind of tough that game but they lose because they just weren't as good and our mutual friend leroy horde had a nice day i believe that game leroy is the best he's he's the man they had no business losing to the Atlanta freaking Falcons. I mean, none. I'm sorry, none.

14-2 Falcons team, though, by the way. I know, and I love Jamal Anderson, another friend of the show. He's great. The dirty bird. The dirty bird. But, I mean, that Vikings team should have been historic. Offensively, it is historic. But we were absolutely robbed of an all-time Super Bowl game

between Denver and Minnesota that, I mean, you talk about a Super Bowl matchup you wish you could have seen in Rochester. It's that one. It's absolutely that one. And I don't know what would have happened the next year, right? I mean, Cunningham wasn't the same. Although Jeff George was pretty dang good when he came in. Anyways, just for one season, one team,

that could have been one of the best ever teams that we that we've seen i i know i think if you were to make a list of the greatest teams of all time not to win a super bowl most of the teams that would make the list probably lost the super bowl but this one belongs to be there even in the nfc championship considering also how they lost it uh the fact that it's a very makeable kick that john madden says he's made every kick so he'll make this one uh all the things that go into that one but why you would undo it and this was by far the most popular answer is simply because you're going to the super bowl if he makes that kick like that is the most immediate and instant you get to

go to the super bowl if you could undo that one the reason i make the dante culpepper argument is i mean the 04 season is one of the greatest at that point that it happened it's one of the greatest quarterback seasons in history like of guys i looked this up the other day at that point of guys who had thrown for his number of yards there were very few who had actually had really good seasons it was mostly because their teams were losing but he wasn't like the top three ever for quarterback rating while throwing for over that number of yards and ran for an additional 400 yards the guy was the whole team and uh randy moss was kind of banged up that year so it wasn't just a matter of oh well you know randy moss is just doing everythingpepper, he was the true franchise quarterback that they've never had since Fran Tarkenton.

That's why I picked it, is, okay, you can make a bet on Favre on this, winning the Super Bowl, or you can make a bet on the Vikings beating the Broncos, who are a tremendous team. With those two, you get to go to the Super Bowl. Whereas my bet is more on the idea that they would have had the 09 season again or the 08 or the 07 or the 06 like that there were a bunch of seasons where they built up that roster to where when farve came to it it was a tremendous tremendous team and you would have had a franchise quarterback there who you can have for a long time that Dante Culpepper in 2014 might have still been their quarterback like that like that is totally different to me

of giving yourself a decade and a half of a franchise quarterback if he doesn't get hurt and plus like think about the league and even how it changed after he got hurt and how offenses got more quarterback friendly coaches learned to use mobile quarterbacks better and oh by the way the vikings got sold to ownership that would spend money like that's a big difference than from what they had and i just think that at some point call pepper would have been the guy to take them to a super bowl it's a different bet than that but the herschel walker one is a different one too because if you don't make that trade and you make those draft picks who knows if you take you know Emmitt Smith or not but like they gave the Dallas Cowboys an

entire dynasty I mean that's what I mean that's certainly got a good case to undo you can't go wrong with any of these god i'm just like scrolling through pro football reference trying to jog the memories i mean that oh four season i mean i can remember those both of those green bay minnesota games were really really good i mean there was the one on christmas eve green bay one in the metro you know minnesota was eight and eight that, which is crazy for as well as Culpepper played. I guess their defense must not have been that great, huh? The highest ranked defense, I looked this up the other day, that Culpepper ever had was 23rd. They were awful on defense.

Terrible defenses. Yep. But you're right, it was that next year, he goes 2-5 in his seven games. Injury, see ya, never the same again. So that's hard to argue, too. I think we forget how freaking good Dante Culpepper really was and that he would have been utilized the right way as the game evolves. These poor Viking fans, man. I feel for all your listeners.

They're due for some good times. And that's why I say about what they're doing now, bringing back the same quarterback, a lot of the similar roster things, why people would be skeptical of that and why they would look at it and go, oh, man, do we have to put up with more 8-8? Because that is like the worst hell to live in in the nfl is just being that middling team it's so much worse than if you're the jets and you have hope that zach wilson can be this magical quarterback that's your next

joe namath at least you have that at least you have that excitement and if it comes back around here we're talking another year going like well they you know they did draft another corner tyler i don't know like if if if they miss the playoffs and that's the case i mean i just i just feel like the sadness level is even worse than believing at some point that you could draft that guy or whatever else but i guess if they miss the playoffs they're drafting that guy in next year's draft anyway well and i also think that they're going to have the benefit of the doubt with a patient owner. Yep.

Right? They're going to have a second go around at quarterback if they get to that point. But also, I'll answer that by asking you this, you know, I don't know how you and your wife met and fell in love and all that good stuff, but I had some pretty bad dates on Tinder. It was a rough go for a while back in 2015, 2016, and I was done. I was finished. I was feeling like the Viking fans listening to this podcast.

I deleted the app, and then I said, you know what? I'm going to re-add this app. We're going to give it another try. And lo and behold, there she was. Gina, staring right back at me, swiped right. We went on our first date two nights later

and the rest is history. Our first date, we knew we were going to be husband and wife. And now we have two kids, beautiful life, beautiful wife, and we live happily ever after. So why can't these fans, Matt, just swipe right on the Minnesota Vikings' new direction and have a little hope, even though they've had their hearts crushed a few times over?

Have you always had the beard? Did you have the beard on the Tinder picture? I did. Well, oh, my God, I don't think I told this on your show, but I had the beard grew that out a while back it was you know maybe not this bushy you know back in the day but i had a little hair i was hanging on for dear dear life right right oh this is there's a vikings connection to this i forgot yeah yes um so before right before i re-added the app i was in minnesota

for a viking story a Bleacher Report. I believe they started 4-0 with Sam Bradford that year. 5-0. 5-0, sorry. I might have been out here when they were 4-0. I can't remember. But early in the season, one of my first stories at BR, I just started there as an NFL features writer and talked to a lot of the guys on defense because the defense was just dominating.

They're winning games without Adrian Peterson. He was hurt with a quarterback that they just traded all that for. And one of the defensive players I talked to was Terrence Newman, the beloved Terrence Newman, who is one of my favorite players I've ever talked to in this profession. He just, he is kind of snarling and surly and gives it to you straight. He's got an edge to him that I just love, and you're not going to get any BS. So after we talked, he looks at me and he's like, what are you doing?

Like, what in the hell are you doing? He goes, L-I-G, let it go. Let it go. And he's rubbing my head saying, he's like, you've got to shave your head. He's like, you're going to shave your head right when you go back to Buffalo, and you're going to meet your wife because she's going to love a bald-headed guy. And that's literally what happened a few days later. I was right around the election, shaved my head, met my wife.

For whatever reason, she likes bald, bearded guys who are sports writers. Same. We locked it up. That's amazing. Thank you, Terrence Newman. Thank you, Terrence Newman. It's funny. I just mentioned the other day on the show about Terrence and how great he is to cover uh one of the reasons is I because like you said he is so straight with you yes if

you don't know what you're talking about he'll be like you don't know what you're talking about do you and you're like no I don't can you tell me like I love it I love it he's really you better bring it with Terrence Newman yeah sure uh and one of the the purely smartest football players you are ever going to see in your life how many guys change positions at age 38 and then play well I'm going to guess the answer is zero unless a kicker went to punter but Terrence Newman did it from outside corner to inside corner had never played it before and then played it on the number one defense in the NFL I mean it's insane um I was going to ask you because we're going to talk for a few more minutes then you got to run like, what do you want to talk about?

Like, what are you talking about? And go along with this football season. I spend every day talking about this Vikings team, and it has become, because of the way the offseason was laid out, a really interesting situation for Kevin O'Connell and Kweisi Adafomensa, and their choices have now put a spotlight on them, whereas maybe they wouldn't have otherwise but I have been so like in this uh horse blinder staring at this team that I'm not sure I'm even fully aware of like what everyone else in the NFL is talking

about like the fantasy football thing happened in baseball where a guy slapped a guy so I know that's going on but oh that was incredible yeah that was amazing but uh but like what are you thinking about you know i think i'd go along we definitely try to cover the game through that long form lens leaning into the future stories trying to you know see how guys are wired for profiles see what really happens behind the curtain when it comes to just the the inner work of teams. That's our niche and would love it if people want to subscribe if they're listening. I think we definitely have a lot of Packer fans who read and subscribe. So that's a team on Vikings fans' minds. And it's interesting.

I think with the Packers, I mean, obviously everything has to kind of go through that lens if you're the Vikings because that's the team that's been in your way forever. And how do you once and for all slay Aaron Rodgers and the Packers? He's still going. He just won MVP. I think that the Packers, though, I mean, they underwent more change than the Vikings went through, which is kind of wild because the Packers are the team that had the number one seed a year ago and the MVP and Matt LaFleur, all this.

But losing Devontae Adams, I think Green Bay was smart, we'll see, to zag where I guess we all thought they'd zig. I think everybody expected them to use some of their ammo in the draft to move up and get Chris Alave or Jamison Williams, one of those receivers early. They could have done it easily. Yeah. I mean, you look at what it costs the Lions to move up. The Packers could have done that.

And they didn't. They didn't want to be, you know, just recycling the same game plan that gets you to the divisional round and you lose. I mean, Aaron Rodgers is an MVP regular season quarterback. He's not a good playoff quarterback of late. He just isn't. This passing game hasn't been good in the playoffs. Not good enough.

So I give Green Bay credit for saying, you know what, we're going to try to build a defense. We're going to try to win a different way in January, and that's what they're doing. I think, you know, Quay Walker, Devontae White, we'll see how that works out, but the middle of their defense is going to be a lot stronger. They just paid a ton of money, Jair Alexander. They hope that he can take on the Justin Jeffersons of the world.

We'll see how that goes, but I think that defensively they were very good for the most part last year, and that this year they're hoping to take the step to great and I think they could and it's interesting that a team is going that direction in today's NFL but I give the Packers credit for taking that swing and not just trying to sign every receiver that you know can go deep deep and freaking out in the draft. They were steady. They, I hate to say, stuck to their board and use all these clichés. Stuck to their board.

But they did have a plan to keep building the defense and didn't panic. I don't know if Christian Watson is going to be good or not. We'll see. And they've got to have somebody in the passing game, but that's why you pay Aaron Rodgers $50 million a year. You know what? I'm so sick and tired of people just saying he doesn't have weapons around him. He's an MVP.

He's making a lot of money. He should be there at OTAs helping these guys learn the offense and get up to speed. He's not. But whenever he gets back there, he's just got to figure that out, and he's got to trust Matt LaFleur in the running game. I mean, when those run calls come in, just stick with it you've got AJ Dillon you've got Aaron Jones you've got a pretty good offensive line there's there's a lane for Green Bay to finally win that time of year

and they could but it also wouldn't surprise me if the Minnesota Vikings won the NFC North yeah I think why it wouldn't surprise me would be eventually the wall is hit, but you never know when the wall is coming. For all quarterbacks, like I've brought up a number of times on the show this offseason about Joe Flacco and how by the same age as Kirk Cousins, Flacco's playing for Denver. It's like that wall hit Joe Flacco way earlier than it's hit some other guys. And it's usually the elite guys that have made this last longer but it wasn't that long ago when rogers supporting cast fell off a little that we were saying is rogers kind of washed and then it was like mike mccarthy's fault because matt lafleur came in but if he slips even a little bit are you more of an average team than a great team

but then you have the dynamic of if the vikings go eight nine and the packers win the division at nine and eight the regrets are going to be so deep of like really because i can actually see that outcome i mean i could see that outcome where the packers are not a 13 win team anymore but then on the other side of it like you've got a still rebuilding detroit chicago minnesota who they usually split with. And how many wins is that? That's sort of like the Patriots thing, playing Buffalo and Miami and the New York Jets for so many years. And then they would end up with 12 wins.

You'd be like, right. But I mean, they beat Cleo Lemon. Like what? One of them was against Kelly Holcomb or Thad Lewis. Like what is happening here? I like it. I like it. Keep those names coming for our audience.

Oh, they could just, yeah. We could do that all day. What was it, Jabron Hamden? Jabron Hamden, yeah, that's right. Did he ever get in a game? He's a good preseason quarterback. It was Jeff Toole, who to this day I think there are in Buffalo Jeff Toole believers who thought he was never given a chance.

Him and Craig Nall both, really. Craig Nall. Yes. Remember when the Packers drafted Brian Brom? And on TV, I think it was like McShay or one of these guys was like, shows the Rodgers it's just not going to work out for them, going with a better prospect. And Brian Br It's like,

yeah, for sure. And then Brian Brown shows up with Buffalo and like a week 17 game. And I remember fans getting excited for like, Hey, maybe this Brian Brown guy was a second round pick and it was like a nightmare. So didn't work out.

I mean, this is the world. This is why they kept Kirk. Like what we just said is why Kirk, because if you end up going through that sort of, you know, one quarterback after the next, it's an absolute nightmare. And this is also why Green Bay just has bent the knee to Aaron Rodgers. They're terrified of living through what they did in the 70s and 80s.

You know, I mean, they did all that. And they don't want to go to that place again now i still think that they should have traded them and just taken their bounty of picks and players and and moved on but that that's why you're terrified of the names that we're you know rattling off here they don't want to live in that existence and i i get it i absolutely get it but and that's why I also get them trying to win a new way in January but I do think that to your point uh when it comes to the Packers like I think that Detroit could be better than people think or at this point now people are thinking Detroit will be good so maybe as good as people think um but it is only kind of one team that stands in the vikings way

and so when we parse through like why did they decide to do this i'm sure that that factored into it that they looked at the division and said if one thing goes wrong let's say an acl for aaron or something we got we got that division and we can go to the playoffs with 10 wins or whatever and really that's what happened in 2017 Aaron Rodgers gets hurt you get two free wins and then you know Detroit um is not that strong I think they got one win out of Detroit that year and Chicago they get two wins out of that year it's like well you know like these things can happen that fast and so I see why they would talk themselves into that. I don't necessarily agree with it because I think that resetting the whole thing might have been better.

Do you really think they should reset? I do. Yeah, I think that I think what they should have done and we'll see who's right. Right. Like, is it me or is it them? I think that they should have come in and traded Kirk for whatever they could get and moved on from everything that wasn't nailed down, everything that wasn't named Justin Jefferson, Brian O'Neal, got as much draft capital as they could get, got as much cap space as they could get, pick up a Marcus Mariota, be competitive because your offense is still going to be decent. So go 8-9, 9-8, play for a playoff spot,

and then the following year go absolutely berserk in free agency and stack the roster around your drafted quarterback and around Justin Jefferson and Brian O'Neill and whatever. your young pieces, I think for the long term, for the seven to 10 year plan, that that probably would have been maybe more, more of a, of a provable direction that we've seen many teams take sort of undo it, get a quarterback, put it back together. Then a direction with a 34 year old quarterback who has not taken a team deep into the playoffs. Like I, I just think that there's way more evidence on one side than there is the other but i see what i see why they did it i mean sometimes i'm sure that i talk on the show like i can't believe they did this thing i totally do get it because if you do win 10 games and you do go in the playoffs then you go into next year like see we were way different right even if it was only one or two wins it's it's gonna feel like it was completely different and it was all zimmer's

fault and all we had to do was X, Y, and Z. And I think that that's what they want. I think that that is like the desired outcome for the ownership of this team to be able to point at the bad man and say, ah, it was that guy. He was pretty bad. He was pretty bad. He was, except for number one defenses and stuff that they had throughout his time. But he had a chance to bring in his guys for another go-around,

and he couldn't figure it out. Their defense was bad. I think this stuff is the most fascinating thing in sports. Timelines. Or time horizons, as Kweisi Adafomensis calls it. But I think timelines in sports are the most interesting thing. Trying to pick when you have a chance to win, when you should take it apart,

when you should move on from your core i just think it's really hard because we all we all sit in the outside and say why don't you just tank it's like that's a hard thing to do it's like look at look at the brian flores situation look at how hard it is to tank your coach is like what i'm not gonna tank they're like what if we just throw you like you know a couple hundred thou can you lose a couple games for us like no what? I'm not going to tank. They're like, what if we just throw you like, you know, a couple hundred thou? Can you lose a couple games for us? Like, no. What? You know what I mean?

And so that I think is the Vikings wouldn't have had to tank, but they would have had to have been realistic. And I don't think they wanted to be realistic. And so now we're going to find out if they're justified in not being realistic, I guess. That's how I look at it. Maybe Justin Jefferson catapulting into superstardom, the way he did, though, changes the calculus of this all.

He's so freaking good that you don't even want to waste one year of him with a Marcus Mariota to use your example. You want to convince him to stay long term. So, you know, Kirk Cousins is very good, and he's going to get him the ball and make him happy. And look at the NFC. Look at the Packers. Talk yourself into the Vikings.

I get it. Maybe he's a big reason why they decide to go for it because you don't want to waste a talent like that. And on the other side of things, he's been a top three receiver, top five receiver in football, and they've missed the playoffs two years in a row. True. And if they do it again, how do you say, stay with us? Like if you didn't change anything and you missed the playoffs again

and your direction didn't work, hey, sign that big contract. I'm sure we'll make it eventually all right like these things you know i mean the best laid plans or whatever when you think that way when you think short term we got a win because of jefferson that's where that's where the last group got in trouble we got a win now because of kirk so let's trade for chris herndon okay you, a lot of mistakes happen that way. I wonder where they are or dig sticks around. Same place, right? You think so? Yeah, I mean.

Because the offense went back to 1993. See, that's the funny thing, though. Where do you think the Vikings offense ranks in points over the last three years? I mean, they're right up there, obviously. 11th. Yep, fringe top 10 offense. offense. I don't know. They've had some of the best wide receivers in the league. They could have thrown to the more. I would agree with that. That was at the center of Diggs' issue.

I mean, you've made this point on this show. I totally agree with it, but when it's first and 10, and you throw incomplete, and it's second and 10, and you run, and you gain two yards, and it's third and 10 and you throw in complete and it's second and 10 and you run and you gain two yards and it's third and eight i think that that is just a recipe for complete disaster and they've that's kind of where they've been at it's hard to quantify that in numbers it's just i don't know it's just like a feel like you just kind of knew oh my god the vikings are going to run here yep and it's going to be third and long and it's going to be tough yep for sure and can you move from 11th to 8th 6th like how far away is that yeah so you know i tend to think it's kind of far but that's kevin o'connell's job that's why

he's here so this is this to me is the number one viking story of like 2022 it's just like they've really i thought we were going to be talking about like hey you know this third round whatever number one Viking story of like 2022. It's just like, they've really, I thought we were going to be talking about like, Hey, you know, this third round, whatever guy, it's pretty good.

He's getting some planes. Like I thought that was going to be our future for a year. And instead it's like, Nope, right back to the pressures on. So, uh, dude, this is super fun.

I'm really glad we could get together and just shoot the breeze. Talking football. This is awesome i can't thank you enough for everything matt and uh we got to do this every single time i have the good pleasure to get out here to the great midwest so let's get it rolling i'll be in buffalo this year vikings and girls in november yep oh man we gotta get you to hamburg brewing i have not had a wing in a very long time. Do they have wings out here? I don't want to insult any

local establishments, but look, when the menu just says Buffalo Wings, and that's all it says, you're not a wing place. You might have wings. You might understand the general thing you're supposed to do to cook a wing, but you're not a wing. You're not a wing place. And that's kind of how I would say

it's here. It's just not a wing place and that's kind of how i would say it's here it's just not a wing place big red flag when it says buffalo i kind of bailed after giving it a couple of shots a couple times and people will be like no you have to try this one you're like i just like you don't understand you don't get it so anyway well great stuff man i'm really glad we could do this heck yeah man let's do it again thanks so much for having me and thanks for uh hopping onto our go Long feed, too. I hope everybody enjoyed it on our end. And it is golong.com is where you can find Tyler's work. Golongtd.com. I wish I could have grabbed that URL.

Is golong something? Golongtd. Sorry. And purpleinsider.substack.com. I have my own.com now. Oh, you have your own? So we both screwed up.substack.com. I have my own.com now. Oh, you have your own? Yeah. So we both screwed up. Great.

Yep, wonderful. That's a good way to end it. Thanks, Tyler.