Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Tyler Dunne talks about the big plan in Minnesota and whether Jordan Love will be good

Episode Date: August 17, 2023

Matthew Coller talks with national NFL writer Tyler Dunne about Vikings practice, the dynamic with Brian Flores and Kevin O'Connell, Kwesi Adofo-Mensah's big picture plan and Tyler's reporting on how Jordan Love is viewed by the Packers organization Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to another episode of Purple Insider inside TCO Performance Center. Matthew Collar along with Tyler Dunn of Go Long TD. We are usually seeing each other in other little windows. You're trying to reduce the amount of echo in your office. But, well, we are actually in quite an echoey room. But we've got good microphones here. Great to see you, man. Great to spend a couple of days watching vikings titans practice with you it is an honor to be on

the purple insider podcast when we are literally inside purple we are surrounded by purple walls so that's that's how a podcast has to be done we're here in the literal sense yeah that's really like where the name came from it was was very well thought out. It was like, I'm inside the building and their team color is purple. And that's how I came up with it. I mean, you guys never knew that and now you do. So you learn something every day. Let's talk about what we saw in practice today. And if we want to talk about the Titans quarterbacks, we can, because the Vikings did pass on both of them in the NFL draft. So if you've got any takes on that, we can also throw those out there.

But I think it's hard for a joint practice to just say they look great to me. Super Bowl, baby. But what I have noticed, and I don't know how you couldn't, is just how different the defense is for the Minnesota Vikings. It was such a travesty last year. It was one of the worst defenses in the entire NFL. And you could tell how much the Tennessee Titans were not enjoying playing up against it and how aggressive it was and also how just different in terms of personnel it is. Even you have Marcus Davenport out there who's kind of trying to revamp his career Byron

Murphy is trying to kind of prove the Arizona Cardinals wrong I mean there's a lot of guys out here that I think are really pushing for that next step in their careers and it's made it a very competitive training camp starting with Brian Flores right he's got something to prove ended ugly in Miami it got personal at the end didn't see eye to eye with to a tongue of iola had it out we wrote about it last year actually so when he goes to pittsburgh kind of gets his career back on track with mike tomlin whatever role he had there kind of i guess mike tomlin's right hand man and now this is his chance to run a defense again and as you said was one of the worst defenses in the entire nfl really one of the worst defenses in the entire NFL really one of the worst

in Vikings history right statistically so if he turns this around I mean he's got something to prove this is his career on the line it starts with him and he's an intense guy it's probably what they need and a lot of respect I was talking to a player yesterday who said you know sometimes our meetings need to be a little harder on guys last season so that's not gonna be a problem with Brian Flores and then you kind of sprinkle in what you just noted players with a lot to prove you could see it you're right it's hard to draw a lot from one practice in a climate controlled actually wasn't climate controlled it was really windy out there very windy very windy um so yeah I think that there was a play. It might have even been seven on seven, so there wasn't even a pass rush.

But Will Levis had to escape the pocket. He was scrambling for some reason. And Andrew Booth, like, fell down. It was right in front of me in the back of the end zone. Fell down on, you know, the backup, backup's backup receiver he was covering. The guy was wide open, but the fact that Will Levis didn't see him because he was scrambling was why he didn't get him the ball so it's the chicken of the egg thing i feel like that's the question they can get a pass rush if they can somehow make the quarterback uncomfortable to some degree it's just going to help everything and you could kind

of get that feeling today overall yeah and that's all I think the big debate and you are centralized in Buffalo. So you would have seen the bills play against the Brian Flores, Miami dolphins. And I went through when he got hired every game, how the quarterbacks performed against the blitz. And the way that it went was either quarterbacks had like a 40 quarterback rating or 140. And I guess when you're in a position where you're evaluating a lot of young players and you're trying to turn it around from being such a man, just vanilla, brutal to watch defense. We always know this in the NFL. If you had Mike Zimmer as the coach, the gruff defensive guy, you hire the offensive guy. Who's nice, right? Like that's just what

you do in the nfl but i think that they couldn't have needed anything more than someone that brings an edge to this team and i also think that you know with kevin o'connell he has created a really really excellent culture here it's something that's overblown and talked about too much but then shows up in that nflpa survey and we get it from the camp vibes and everything else but i think you do need somebody who has a serious edge to them and and brian floris is that guy it's such a balance because you don't want to go to the other extreme the country club scene i i saw in buffalo rex ryan year one 2015 That was the pendulum swing. I mean, you covered Doug Marone.

It was not an enjoyable experience for most involved with the Buffalo Bills franchise under Doug Marone. So they swing to Rex. Everybody loves him as a person, as a coach. His pregame speech is not necessarily the scheme. The scheme drove those defensive players insane at times. But, you know, I'm at a training camp practice, and it's just, you know, families are everywhere. And it's nice, but it was a little too laid back. And I think that that spilled into the season, and it did affect a talented team.

The fact that they didn't have that source of intensity that you probably do need to have, right? You don't have to be a total, I forget, I can't swear on this podcast. You don't have to be a uh just a total i forget i can't swear on this podcast you don't have to be a miserable prick can i say prick probably not a jerk jerk okay how's that work well we'll edit that out so yeah you don't you don't have to be that and then you don't have to be the country club but you can be a coach that players want to run through the wall for they want to show up to work for, make it enjoyable. If it comes from a place of love, yeah, you're going to be hard on guys. I'm talking about the head coach.

I don't think it hurts to have a coordinator who's going to push you and call you out in meetings. And that's what Flores is probably going to bring. Well, and just, you know, the fact that he has previous head coaching experience, Kevin O'Connell going into only his second year as a head coach. There is, I think a little bit of maybe just synergy between guys who have been in that role before. If you've never been that role, you don't know what it's like to be in that role and how much is just resting on your shoulders as the head coach. I think that that's a really

tough spot to be in. And Kevin O'Connell having another person to bounce things off I think is helpful for him at the same time I have wondered Flores is so aggressive in practice and we heard Kirk Cousins talk about it today if it I don't want to say hurts the offense it's going to be a good offense we know from last year what it is but it seems to every time Kirk Cousins talks about it he's kind of very hesitant to say oh it's great to practice against because he keeps thinking about this isn't the type of defense we're going to face in week one and it seems to be kind of flustering him a little bit i thought that was really interesting i mean you're at a lot of these kurt cousins press

press conferences and i'm sure he has mastered the art of saying a lot with maybe not really saying a lot of substance like like most quarterbacks yeah he was pretty open today on that back and forth and I think at one point he even took his fists and like he's like yeah we're going at it some nights I'm trying to figure out how we get stuff accomplished because the offense has to get ready for week one they've got to get ready for the defenses they're going to see they got to work on things they need to work on. I do think it's the right way to go if they are kind of skewing the other direction. It's not the offense that needs a lot of work.

It's the defense with a new coordinator, a lot of new pieces. They should be unleashing every kind of blitz, every kind of look they can because they need the work. And Kirk Cousins even said this, though, too. It's going to help him. It's a long season. He's going to see blitzes and looks and coverages that he didn't prepare for, didn't think of, and maybe Brian Flores is just throwing all this at him right now. He's a really smart guy, as everybody learned on the Netflix series.

There's going to be something in the back of his brain that he's going to tap into in week 12 week 13 maybe even the playoffs like oh and i did see something like that in training camp and he'll have an answer for it well and he said that it's given him a bigger menu of plays to deal with certain looks that he's getting which i'm sure there are teams that are going to send similar blitzes it's not like brian flores is the only one who knows how to blitz i mean there are two teams that blitz just as much as them and it's also more complicated than just blitz like what does that mean like where is the pressure coming from what types of pressures what the communication has to

be but it also feels like he keeps saying something to this effect to kind of put it out there. Like maybe it's a little much, man. Like maybe you're just bringing it down on us a little too much and we need to simulate something else. But camp is not over yet. Anyway, when they get into the portion where they're going to prepare for the bucks, this is like the install of offense and defense. And I know he was talking about, do I win the rap or do I work on the play and that sort of thing, which is a challenge for them. But I think as they go into the later part of camp, they will focus on that. But that seemed to be a point of, uh, like where cousins was smiling, but in a way, like, are you smiling

about this though? Or have you been a little bit agitated? I also think that if Brian Flores is agitating his own quarterback, he'll probably agitate lots of other quarterbacks as well. Is, is that the biggest source of intrigue for you for this team? Because I think there's a lot of potential, uh, intriguing points, including they've moved on from so many players after winning 13 games. They also, you They also have a quarterback that's going into a contract year where he doesn't have an extension. He doesn't know where he's playing after next year, a first round wide receiver who you didn't get to see, unfortunately, because he was banged up and missed these two practices. But that's somebody they might be relying on a lot. KJ Osborne stepping up into a different role. Hockinson doesn't have a contract.

JJ doesn't have a contract. There's a lot going on here. This is such a fascinating organization because it can really go either direction. I'm sure that's probably a central theme here on the podcast at Purple Insider. And I know you're a fan of it. It's smart for a team. If you're really not dead set certain certain like we need to go for it right now then you can't do what the rams did i mean look at the rams defense outside of aaron

donald i don't know if the average fan knows anybody on that defense you are gonna have to tear it down so with kirk cousins you know you have a top 15, top 12, maybe top 10 quarterback. So are you going to just push all your chips in? Probably not. But you can talk yourself into being a contender with him, especially with maybe the best non-quarterback in the sport in Justin Jefferson. So you have him ascending, and you're going to pay him. You don't want to just shift into rebuild mode.

But yeah, I mean, I get the logic in the competitive rebuild, whatever you want to call it, because I think as Joe Shane with the Giants called it, compete for today, build for tomorrow. I know it all sounds cliche, but it is true. They can win the NFCc with this team they can just outscore teams but what if everything falls apart and you realize okay kirk cousins is only going to take us so far then you have to find a new quarterback via the draft via trade something

creative and then where are you as a franchise who really knows so i kind of like the fact that they're in this middle ground usually i wouldn't right usually means like you're what are you like eight and eight or nine and eight zone is not the best place to be but i'm of the argument like those those one score games mean something like they did something culturally where they does quantify itself on the field i'm not just going to write this off as a lucky team i think those games those moments they that's something that can stick. And we're going to find out, I guess. And then we'll find out how good Kirk cousins really is because for the first time in a long time, he's got the same system, the same coaches around him.

He's got the best wide receiving core, maybe in the NFL, right, right up there. Top five, one of the best tight ends. It's all set up. You can talk here. I'm doing it right now. You can talk yourself into the Vikings winning some playoff games, doing some damage. But similar to the Detroit Lions, you have to see major changes on defense. We don't know where that's going to go. The nature of the NFC, though, why wouldn't you do what they're doing right now?

And, yeah, you had to shed some salaries. The Darius Smith, you had to do some things. But why wouldn't you try to win with this core that you still have? So there's a scenario that has come to mind to me just watching practice that I hadn't thought of really before when discussing the competitive rebuild, which is what if the offense is amazing and the defense has the same problem again and they win eight games because of it. And I mean, I generally agree with you on the one score thing. It's a little overblown and that's having watched all of them. A lot of the games they were winning

and they outplayed their opponent, but at the same time, they gave up a lead at the end or let the other team get close. And not all one score games are invented equal. Not all of them are ping ponging back and forth. There are some one score games where you dominated

and had a win percentage of 90% all the way through through and then the other team gets a touchdown at the end they were more like a 10 win team than a 13 win team some of the outside world's acting like they were a five win team and they were just horrendous and whatever but what if the offense ends up being really good and because they didn't spend enough on the defensive side they come short of being a real contender is there a case to look at and go maybe you missed a chance there like maybe you should have just paid zedarius smith more money maybe you should have just signed like three more veteran players instead of putting mckay blackman who got hurt today or joan williams or whatever found a way or sacrificed the future again there is there

is a small part of me that says that that could get brought up at the end if they go 11 wins and they get to the playoffs and have a great offensive performance like they did last year and lose on a final drive because they couldn't make a stop that we were like well i guess it was a good season but wait did should you have just done some things in the off season to make that defense actually better? That's the second guess. I think it's a fascinating hypothetical because look at the general manager. Kwesi Dovomensa is a numbers guy. You know about those numbers author of, here we go.

Can we get it on the screen? I do. Yeah. Football is a numbers game there it is pre-sale pre-sale get yourself a coffee go to amazon football is a numbers game they have one of the best numbers gms in sports right there's nobody with this background really it's unbelievable where he comes from what he's seen so you as an organization you leaned into this this is what you signed up for like you signed up for a gm who isn't going to just completely mortgage future

years to win now right and i'm not saying it's right that that's what they signed up for so you're right if the offense goes out there they light it up they show okay we can absolutely hang 30 on anybody in the playoffs, by the way, but the defense can't hold us water, then I think that criticism is warranted because you're judged on wins and losses, and the goal isn't just to make the playoffs. The goal is to win a Super Bowl. And you can make the case with where those playmakers are offensively, why wouldn't you just go for it right now?

I don't really have a strong opinion either way you know i'd love to just sit here and say hell yeah of course they should have found a way to pinch pennies here and put up with the dead money down there but hell i mean if you do that you could be stuck like tampa bay like green bay i mean they went all in on tom brady Aaron Rodgers, respectively. And what does Green Bay have, like $57 million in dead cat money? Like, they didn't sign anybody. I mean, Tavares Moore, I think at safety, that was it. The Vikings don't want to put themselves in that place.

They don't think it's worth it. It's probably the right move. Probably the right move. Folks, late summer and fall are always a crazy time for me with football and i have hardly any time for a good meal i'm always finding myself in drive-thrus and running around but that is changing with factor america's number one ready to eat meal kit they can help you just like they're helping me fuel up with fast fast, chef-prepared, dietician-approved, ready-to-eat meals delivered straight to your door. You'll save time, eat well,

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No prep, no mess. Head to factormeals.com slash purple 50 and use the code purple 50 to get 50% off. That's code purple 50 at factormeals.com slash purple 50 for 50% off. Well, I also think that when you sign like Michael Pierce or something like they did in years past or Sheldon Richardson, if that signing doesn't work out, that player isn't here for long and you just wasted a bunch of cap space. You may have had to give them void years, whatever, and you've hurt yourself. I think that they really happens that we all think is going to happen, which this team will be competitive, but they are not quite to the level that we would start saying a Super Bowl favorite going into the season. No one thinks that Vegas doesn't think that probably crazy.

It off limits his projections. Don't think that because you're making your decisions based on those. But also you have to get yourself cap healthy at some point so when the time comes to take a real shot you can do it it's just what you almost never see is a team that is like this but has kirk cousins at quarterback normally you see a team that's like this that has ryan fitzpatrick a quarterback or josh mccown or some like filler andy dalton where you're just trying to kind of get through that season and see what happens. But maybe you make the playoffs and you're a good story if it's Tyrod Taylor. But if you're

in a win now type of situation, um, with like the offense that you have, normally you're not saying we're competitive rebuilding, right? You know, you know, like it's not, oh, well, this side of the ball, they could do it. Or you get rid of the quarterback in that case. Like the Lions, they just went, you know what? We're not in a position to be great. We're going to have to rebuild. So let's move on for Matthew Stafford and just start the rebuild from there. So I think that's what makes it interesting.

I've been calling it bold is the way I've been going with it. Normally, teams try to makes it interesting. I I've been calling it bold is the way I'd be going with it. That normally teams try to run it back. Normally they just say, we're going to ride this all the way until regression punches us in the face. And I think what they're trying to do is catch it before in a way, you know, like try to catch it on the way down and refresh the roster. And also sometimes, you know, this from Buffalo, man, like like older players when they start to fade they might be worse than younger players like just because they were good three years ago all right so all of that stuff i think plays into the intrigue around this team let's not forget too they drafted a wide receiver in the first round like they they triple down on what they do best

yeah like moving the ball through the air, being dynamic. That selection alone tells me like they are, they are going for it. Like you are the rich get richer. Like they could have added a defensive player. One of the worst defenses in franchise history. Why, why wouldn't you add somebody on that side of the ball? Green Bay drafts,

the defensive player first round every year, it seems. But I love it. I think that was smart. Like you, this is what you do well and this is another year in the system it's a complicated system um i think kirk cousins is going to be more comfortable in it even with brian force throwing everything at him that that to me

signals that they're still going for it right yeah and they're not they it they gotta be such a hard team to read because they're not going to be at the podium telling you exactly what the plan is. It's kind of like a blend, and you have to judge them by their actions. You've seen them in practice, Jordan Addison. As talented as he is, they are going to win games. For sure. They're going to be in the mix late in the season. Kirk Cousins isn't going to fall out of face is he is he like i don't think so you know what you're

gonna get high he's not gonna have eight fourth quarter comebacks that's probably not gonna happen yeah that's where the regression will come from but i think like but statistically he didn't have a great year statistically like it was one of his lowest like qbr pff grade because the offense is harder for him to operate so there are more mistakes and more negative plays to go along with the higher upside but the what makes it so interesting is that they have laid out their plan to us publicly that almost doesn't happen and then they followed through with it with the moves that they made so they said competitive rebuild and then they did it And there's been a little fan reaction of, oh, they actually did it. Like they actually got rid of Delvin cook. They did what they said they were going to do and how it plays out. I will see

through the season, but to your point, it is absolutely true that they are trying to win games. Like they didn't hire Brian Flores for him to come in and mess around they are trying to win games but also refresh the roster at the same time which is walking a tightrope in sports and like you said pretty much nobody does it uh did you enjoy watching justin jefferson at training camp he's unbelievable oh my gosh it's we talked about it last night at dinner. How did that many teams pass on him? Was it really just the uncertainty about the slot? Yes, it really was. It really was. At his size, what he can do athletically, his quickness,

in and out of breaks, it's phenomenal. And it's going to be really fascinating to see. Kirk Cousins talked about this today, right? They are expecting a lot of attention to be umbrellaed over justin jefferson this year i mean they're going to line them up everywhere move them everywhere there's a lot of tape of them within this offense now and you don't want to just like look the other way if you're kirk cousins and i think that was encouraging if you're a vikings fan it's not like he's just going to say okay i'm going to target k jasper looks really good today too you target target him 15 times and Justin Jefferson five

like you got to get the ball to your playmakers and that's what I kind of love about Kirk Cousins game is he will give him a chance think about the play against the Bills right like just put it up there like don't overthink this situation like just get the ball to your playmakers instead of trying to be cute and maybe do it. He did his last throw of the season. You know, they want less of that.

I haven't brought it up even less than 400 times, probably through the off season. It's gone. You want more of the former, less of the latter. And I think that's what you're going to get. They're going to find a way to get him the ball. Kirk Cousins has been a monster for number one wide receivers, like his whole career. He has,

unless Mike Zimmer made him hand it off all the time. He has been really good for Deshaun Jackson in Washington for Stefan Diggs, Adam Thielen in 2018. And ever since Jefferson came into the league, he really pushes the ball to his number one wide receiver the question is will this be the time where opposing defenses figure out answers to that and also here's another question for you how much is the greatest receiver on earth worth because they are in the midst of a negotiation that has not come to fruition yet for a contract extension. I would just give him anything he wants. I don't even think it's much of a negotiation, right? Even though we see rookie receivers perform right away, there's a lot of talented receivers in the NFL with the way the college game

is set up. Even then, he's in a different stratosphere. There's a reason everybody's taking him first overall in their fantasy drafts. I mean, he's just so unbelievably talented. Before i just before i forget i wanted to ask you a question like i'm really fascinated by okay the numbers are driving these decisions competitive rebuild being smart and it's also a really happy building now post zimmer like people are happy to go to work for kevin o'connell but like letting they weren't during Zimmer. Did you report anything on that? Should we do, let's do another podcast.

Hey, you're back in the building. So I wasn't going to bring him up. I think everybody's sick of the Mike Zimmer talk. But you're back in the building. So it was all true. Go on. So like exactly right. I lost my train of thought.

Okay. So all everybody's happy here, right? And they're making smart decisions, competitive rebuild. But when you do cut ties with vets that had a really good reputation in the locker room, Eric Hendricks wasn't going to make sense probably in this defense. He's got a lot of wear on the tire. I get it. Delvin Cook, the metrics don't look good for him,

but he's still Delvin Cook. He's still highly respected, I'm sure, in that room. Does that have an effect on culture? Could that have a negative ripple effect as they get into these games? You do need some veterans around. You do need those guys in different position rooms that are going to speak up, say, this is how we do things. This is the standard.

Because I know with the Packers, it did kind of start to go south when they lost some of those veterans. Aaron Rodgers didn't have to be a leader in 2010, 2011. He didn't have to be a leader. He was just really, really talented, didn't have to speak up. And then a lot of those veterans got old. Maybe they should have kept some they were probably right to let some other ones go he was thrust into a leadership role that he is still

probably ill-equipped to handle as aaron rogers oh no hard knocks is making him look great you know that's the thing you know if there was cameras in our face throughout the day i'm sure we would just be ourselves right we wouldn't act any differently. If there's a lens three inches from your eyeball, yeah, don't get me going. But do you think that that has an effect? Like, should they have kept a Dalvin Cook around just because he's Dalvin freaking Cook? Guys love him, and he's good for the room, right?

And you just have to pay a little bit more than you want because of all that other stuff that matters in a locker room. and this could be also a bit of a kirk cousins test because last year it was a extremely veteran team an extremely leadership heavy team you mentioned kendrick's one of the best leaders i've ever been around patrick peterson an incredible peterson another one yeah sorry arizona i don't know what you guys were doing but patrick peterson was such a great fit here all of us were like well that was the guy arizona had some trouble with like i don't get it i must have been on their side but uh just a great leader for their room as you mentioned delvin cook a uh by example type of player and a lot of a lot of

those guys are set the example for everybody and that's where it starts with those adam stealing right yeah minnesota's own absolutely uh i would also say that a lot of them had their run and they were here and they didn't get anywhere since 2017 they didn't get other than one playoff win in new orleans as the wild card that's it and at some point you just have to go well i get it there's leaders but here's your next wave it's now byron murphy jr has a chance to become a leader on this team he hasn't won yet but he can be he's 25 years old he signed a multi-year contract so let's see let's see that and if that doesn't work out you find somebody else uh let's see well kj osborne's a free agent after this year, so he might not be here. But TJ Hawkinson, sign an extension.

Justin Jefferson can come more into that role with Adam Thielen not here. A lot of times, also on the team, it comes down to Kirk Cousins and the quarterback. I think when things have gone wrong in the past, there has been a little bit of a, all right, well well it's mike zimmer's team so i'm just here to do my job but with kevin o'connell as the coach is that acceptable probably not right i mean because it's a former quarterback as your coach who has empowered his quarterback to take ownership of this team but the thing that's working against him is he doesn't have a contract extension.

He's a lame duck. Yeah. But I don't know how much that affects Kirk. He's a different guy. The reason there's, there's two reasons that Kirk cousins is who he is. One, he works like a maniac on every single detail. The other thing is he doesn't let anything get to him or at least impact how he plays. I, he just powers through no contract contract ESPN, trashing him for losing a Monday night game. It just does not matter. And he's always the same quarterback. And, and from, from that end, I think that he'll lead in the same way that you would expect, but you know, you have Brian O'Neill who's been here a while. Derisaw is coming into his own. I think it's just time for a refresh of that group as well.

And could it result in regression this year? Yes. But I think what the team has said, and I would agree with this, is if that's the case, then that's okay. Then you know who you have to replace and what you have to replace after this year. So perfectly said. A leadership void can be a good thing. I hadn't really thought about it in that term. See, like the mini helpless miracle. It feels like it was yesterday. Six years ago. They're all gone.

Six years ago. Daniil Hunter, Harrison Smith. I think that's it. Yeah. The only guys are left. You've got to allow other players the opportunity to step up into those roles too. Right? And then you just listed off some names. It could the other way but that's the gamble that's the risk worth taking here because

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tickets in the same section or row for less game time will credit you 110 of the difference so make sure you get those tickets today with game time a no stress experience download the game time app create an account and use the code insider for twenty dollars off your first purchase terms apply again create an account redeem with the code insider for twenty dollars off download the game day app today last minute tickets lowest price guaranteed it just it all comes back to the future of the quarterback. If you told me that it all blew up, nothing worked. Kirk fell off. Defense was horrible and they finished six and 11. Everybody else outside of here would be like, Oh man, those Vikings unreal. They just fell apart. But this, this here podcast would be like,

that sounds like you're drafting pretty high for a quarterback. So I don't know. I think it's all part of the calculus that you say, all right, we're going to take some shots on Marcus Davenport and some other players like this, put in some rookies, see what happens. And if it doesn't work, if Jordan Addison doesn't work in year one, if cousins does regress in his mid thirties, he is pretty old for a non-legendary quarterback. Well, then that's a gamble we're willing to take because the wrong side of that is actually right because you have openness at the quarterback position in the future. Speaking of quarterback position, I want to ask you about Jordan love because you have done a good amount of reporting on Jordan Love. And I think that what Vikings fans are talking themselves into

is that there's no way that Jordan Love could be anywhere near the last two guys. And I have friends from Minnesota who have said that they remember the day Favre left and how they celebrated and said, there's no way he's going to be as good as Favre. And then he was, uh, what, what do you make of Jordan Love? I feel like you have done more diving into this with Jordan Love than anybody I know. I don't know what he's looked like in training camp. I'm not sure that that matters that much or to projecting a whole season, but I'm sure that minnesotans are curious about any jordan love information yeah i think that if you're comparing jordan love

to aaron rogers there's no comparison but if you're comparing jordan love 2023 to aaron rogers 2022 give me love. Cause Aaron Rogers wasn't that good last year. He was, he blew off the off season. You know, he signed the richest contract in the NFL. And what did he do?

He didn't show up for OTAs. He's he has taken, I swear that pay cut that he took with the jets. That is, that is very on brand for Aaron Rogersgers to stick it to Green Bay, to stick it to somebody in his life on the way out. It frustrated the Packers these last few years when the quarterback wanted weapons but financially wasn't given the flexibility to find that weapon to go with Devontae Adams. So anyways, I digress.

Don't get me going on him let's stick to football here so that's always welcome here on the show I figured I was pandering but I Aaron Rodgers last season like if there was pressure if somebody blitzed if he was corralled it just felt like the play was over and at other times he just didn't even see the field he wasn't seeing the field well he He had open receivers. And I think a lot of that had to do with him blowing off the offseason, not working as hard as he did years past. Mentally, he didn't really seem into it, right?

Didn't really want to work with the younger receivers. Going on McAfee, saying, hey, if you don't know what you're doing, you should be benched. It's like, should the Packers be benching you then? Because the season really did kind of fall apart. Those back-to-back-to-back losses, I think it was, what, the Giants, the Jets, and Commanders. And they were barely running the football. That's what Matt LaFleur wanted to do.

That's the strength of the team. Aaron Jones, A.J. Dillon. Yet Aaron Rodgers is at the line of scrimmage, throwing audibles out, doing all these hand signals. It works when you've got Devontae Adams out there who you have tens of thousands of reps with. He can go to that audible that worked five years ago. It doesn't work with rookies. So I think for what Aaron Rodgers was last year,

what Jordan Love could be this year, Love is better. He's younger. He's more athletic. I was just talking to Kingsley Enigbare. Should know how to say the name of the player. I just did a profile on. And he said, look, Jordan can do things in this offense that Aaron couldn't do. RPOs. Hello. Aaron Rodgers is no threat to run for a first down off of an RPO. So you're just not going to even do it. Improvisation.

Second reaction. That stuff really wasn't part of the offense last year jordan love can do all that so i get it the receiving core is ultra ultra raw ultra ultra green they couldn't sign anybody even if they wanted to um rookies everywhere second year weapons everywhere but the line's still pretty good the running game should still be pretty good and to answer your question i think jordan love just what people don't get is he worked his butt off like he has been working behind the scenes it's not cliche like we saw what josh allen did with the work ethic we saw what jalen hertz did with the work ethic if you've got the right people around you the right coaches around you and something special to your game a a big arm, athleticism, some youth, special things can happen. I don't know if he's going to be a top 10 quarterback,

but I think he's going to be good and he could be good enough for this team to get to the playoffs. So I heard Sam Monson of PFF make a comparison to Jordan Love based on his numbers from college, which I know is really hard to figure out, but, and the way that we've seen him play in a very small sample size of preseason games and a couple little appearances in the NFL is a Jamis Winston type player with a better head and faster. Like Winston was not a runner, but where, where he's coming from for that is the, the general recklessness at times and being accurate at times, but also very wild with the football. And that's what it's looked like in some of the preseason action.

And from what I read on a daily basis from Packers reporters is that it can just be wild. Although there's a Ryan Fitzpatrick comparison there, too. Fitzpatrick was a pretty good athlete. He could run. He would put his shoulder into somebody. But, you know, he could have a great game. He would have lots of great games, beat the Patriots, had an amazing game, but at the same time he could be all over the place. And I think that's hard to solve. I think it's hard to just like take that out of somebody. I remember when Sam Darnold came out and a lot of people went, oh, don't worry through

all those interceptions in college. Like, ah, well, you know, that might play into it. I think it's, I mean, it makes for more intrigue there, but I do think there's a point to be made that Rogers was bad last year. He had a bad attitude and he played like it. And I don't know, like his last memory at Lambeau field is melting down against Detroit and losing that game and missing the playoffs because of it. I mean, I don't know. I think that in Green Bay, they have to be interested in something new. That thing just became so gross. And the McAfee show played into it with him coming on every day and just spinning all the narratives in the way that he wanted to and everything else like that that relationship was so toxic that it was kind of reminds me of Zimmer here where Zimmer

is a great coach Rodgers is a great quarterback but when you have that atmosphere it is very hard to win the players are very excited to run the offense as written by Matt LaFleur right right there were two different offenses within one. Don't take it from me. Marquez Valdes-Scanley. We sat down for a feature on his life two years ago. He brought it up. Like, look, there's two different playbooks here.

There's what Matt LaFleur calls, and then there's what Aaron Rodgers does at the line of scrimmage. And I think that for young players, your head's already spinning. That's really hard to manage. You've got a demanding quarterback who's going to give you a death stare when you screw up by the way and it's hard to get on his intellectual level he's the smartest person in every room if you just ask him so that's a difficult quarterback to play with I think that there is a a relief from everybody like okay we're all on the

same page like we are what do you hear from players all the time? Like they just want to be able to play fast. Speaking of Rex Ryan, his defense was genius. If you've got the veterans who know it inside and out those bills players, I mean, their heads were spinning like a top. They had players running on the field,

off the field, right before the ball snapped, they weren't playing fast. It wasn't the Jim Schwartz defense from the year before. See ball, get ball. Apply that to the offense. Like you want to be able to go out there, know exactly what you're going to do,

do it without needing to overthink. I think there was so much overthinking around Aaron Rodgers last year where guys can just run the offense. They can rely on their God-given abilities and their speed and their athleticism, everything you show up to watch. It is a relief. And that's just talking about football. That's not even talking about the fact that he can be a pain in the rear.

Right? I haven't noticed. Was there something he did? But you're on great terms with him, so it's all good. He's welcome on to the Go Long podcast any time. Okay, so before I let you go and you got to go home and write all the stuff that you gathered here, how do you think the NFC North plays out?

Like, give me the, where everybody finishes. That's such a good question because it can really go anywhere. So I guess process of elimination. I don't think the Chicago bears are a threat. Look, they did some good things dj moore

if he is what aj brown was to jalen hurts what stefan diggs was to young josh allen like that's what they're going for here maybe he has that effect i i don't know i believe it when i see it especially with the offensive line and how bad that that was last season so they'll be fourth ah man i i really love what the detroit lions are doing and it's it's kind of similar bad defenses some big changes in different ways here it's with the coaching staff there aaron glenn is still the coach he's still the coordinator but they completely reset the secondary um four out of the new five defensive back starting and nickel are going to be brand new. So yeah, personnel changes have been wide ranging and Detroit's offenses.

Ben Johnson is a schematic genius. He knows how to dial things up. It's so based on the scheme here. I feel like Kevin O'Connell, I don't want to take anything away from him. Seems brilliant down those lines too, but you've got dudes that detroit doesn't have i don't know what i'd rather have i don't know which offense i'd rather have probably detroit

by a little bit if you look at the numbers line if their offensive line is healthy they're great i was just gonna say that because it starts on the offensive line their line is loaded maybe the best in the sport so i'm not really going process of elimination here, but I think right now I would go Detroit one. Green Bay, Minnesota is a toss up. I think I kind of like the youth on Green Bay's offense. I'm on a Vikings podcast though. So I'll go Minnesota too.

For the sake of this podcast, there are skeptics. There are skeptics who watch and listen. So I had, I had one, of this podcast there are skeptics there are skeptics who uh watch and listen so i i had i had one i had one podcast where i had two guests and one guest thought the vikings are going to win six games and the other thought they're going to win 11 games so like that's how it goes and we have all sorts of opinions here i really i i think though those two teams that could go either direction for for much different reasons but i think that detroit is is a notch above is

a step above and the dan campbell has i mean what he's done behind the scenes um similar here culturally but they're they're a confident bunch that's for sure i still have uh detroit is the favorite because i don't care that their name is detroit it like, that doesn't matter what you did in 1996. Scott Mitchell. That probably was a good team in 96, right? It probably was, yeah. Scott Mitchell, now relevant. One of those years, Scott Mitchell went off

and threw for like 4,000 yards. Brent Perriman. Yeah, exactly. Johnny Morton, Herman Moore, David Sloan, the big old tight end. David Schlesinger in the backfield. Ah, that's right. Is it Corey Schlesinger in the backfield. That's right. Is it Corey Schlesinger?

Corey Schlesinger. Did I say David? Yeah, yeah. David Sloan, Corey Schlesinger. Yeah. In the back. Let's just name off random 90s Lions players. Low Miss Brown at the left tackle.

You had Mel Gray returning punts. Robert Porsche. Absolutely. I mean. Chris Spielman. Yeah, Chris Spielman. I some yeah Chris Spielman there was that I mean those were some good teams uh Jerry Ball was probably there yeah this is like uh people have asked me to do a like live immaculate grid so I'm gonna have to start doing that where I just

pull it up um I heard about your immaculate grid prowess I I it's not that I have great scores. It's that I never miss one. It's like I never guess wrong. That was what I said. I was not saying I'm the best player of all time. I'm just saying that I've never guessed wrong. I always fill in the whole thing and I always get one. So anyway, sometimes it takes me all day, but that's not the point. Go long TD. You should know it already. You might, but it is an incredible project that you have built from the ground up. Similar to Purple Insider. It's phenomenal long form writing, analysis, opinions, columns, articles, and the best in depth features in the entire universe.

So go long TD, Tyler Dunn. And your book on tight ends was phenomenal. Thank you. Blood and Guts. I also read that. We talked about it for the show. So great to see you, man. Great to hang out a little bit.

I'm really glad we could make time for a little podcast in this very purple room. And we will get together again very soon. Pleasure all here. Thank you, my man.