Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Tyler Dunne talks about the lessons the Rams should have learned from the Vikings when trading for Matthew Stafford

Episode Date: February 1, 2021

Matthew Coller and Tyler Dunne, a former Bleacher Report feature writer turned Substacker at GoLongTD.substack.com, joins to talk about where he feels the Vikings stand right now with Mike Zimmer and Kirk Cousins. Easlier this year, Tyler wrote a long piece about Zimmer and how relationships have frayed and his goodwill has dipped despite ownership continuing to back him. What does that mean for Kirk Cousins and Rick Spielman and the Vikings' purgatory? Plus are the Rams doing the same thing the Vikings did in 2018? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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with Drizzly or Instacart, Coors Brewing Company, Golden, Colorado, and as always, celebrate. Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here, and joining me from his own newsletter, Go Long, is Tyler Dunn. What is up, Tyler? Matt, it is good to see you. In addition to hearing you, usually we communicate via text when, need that podcast help some way, somehow. I'll beat you to the punch. Your podcast host right here is a savant when it comes to producing podcasts. Even more than that, he's just an unbelievably

exceptional human being. Thank you, Matt. It's good to see you. Well, that's very nice. Usually, I'm giving out all the compliments first on the podcast, because let me just throw them back at you is what you have done with Go Long after working for Bleacher Report has been incredible to see. You're doing all sorts of long forms and Q&As. You just did a Q&A with Trent Dilfer, which was extremely cool. And you've had a lot of, some that I've been jealous of. I'm going to try to get Leroy Horde on the show here because you had a chance to talk with him. So your work that you've done with Go Long is amazing. And people should check that out at golongtd.com. People should go there and check

that out. And your Go Long podcast as well, in which sometimes you have former Bills general manager Doug Whaley on, which I think is awesome to get the perspective of somebody who was actually a general manager all the time. So you're doing great stuff. Everybody should check that out. You are part of the sub-stack nation, as I am as well. So it's been cool to see you go on your own and do kind of the same thing as I've been doing, only with the national perspective. So anyway, now that we are finished patting each other on the back, let's talk some football. You became an honorary Vikings reporter to start go long, by the way.

And months ago, we talked about Mike Zimmer after you did your article and put it out, a two-part piece that if people have not read it, should go back and find it because it was an incredibly deep dive on Zimmer. So before we get to the Goff and Stafford trades and what else we should expect for quarterback trades, now that the Vikings went 7-9 and you laid out some of the issues and the tensions and things like that that have gone on with Zimmer and more people have left, the assistant general manager of the issues and the tensions and things like that that have gone on with Zimmer. And more people have left. The assistant general manager of the Vikings and Gary Kubiak retiring. I'm not saying those are directly because of Mike Zimmer, but it really seems like Zimmer is in a spot where he's kind of backed into a corner where it's like, if you don't in

2021 show that this ship is going in the right direction, this might be it because I think that the goodwill of 2017 has more or less worn off with Mike Zimmer. You just nailed it. I mean, that's definitely the takeaway for me. I'm on the outside. I'm not right there in Minneapolis, but just the people I've talked to, it's like, okay, this season you had COVID, you had a lot of people leaving, you had a lot of young players on defense, all of that, you know,

you've got some baked in excuses that maybe are justified, right? Like maybe you can say, look, our defense is in the state it's in because of this player that left and this player we have in there. You can have that debate all day long, but it's there. I mean, it's not like Mike Zimmer should be fired this second because they didn't make the playoffs. They're kind of all in on Mike Zimmer, right? I mean, ownership.

They want this to work. They want this to be a sustainable situation where year in and year out, they don't have to worry about hiring new coaches and completely changing the culture and the foundation like teams seem to do every two three years these days so I think that the Vikings ownership as bad as they want it to work out and yeah you do have some very real excuses here there's also the argument of complacency just doesn't get you anywhere like being content doesn't get you anywhere something Like being content doesn't get you anywhere.

Something is wrong here when one offensive coordinator after another is leaving, whether they're fired, they resign, they're burned out. Like they're all leaving. Like you just said, more people left this offseason already. I think that the worst place to be in as a franchise, and we talked about it a couple months ago, is kind of where the Vikings are. When you're in purgatory at 6-10 to 8-8, like, what are you doing? Like, you're not really looking for a new quarterback.

You're not really looking for a new direction. You're not a Super Bowl contender. You're just kind of stuck in the middle. They feel like a team that's stuck in the middle, that's kind of lying to themselves in the sense of, in the name of continuity. And I get it. Like, look like look like you said we have Doug Whaley on our podcast regularly he's really open about this stuff and in Buffalo I can remember when he signed a contract extension with uh with the Pagoulas with Russ Brandon I mean they took a picture right on the yacht

and the big mantra then was continuity. We don't want to go through coaches and GMs. We want this to work. We want this to stick. They were gone in a year. I mean, he was gone in a year. So it's like sometimes you do just have to start over. You have to figure out a new direction, and I think the Vikings are kind of past that point,

but they don't see it. Yeah, let me just drop the cliches. The NFL usually is not for long, but with this team staying with Mike Zimmer, signing him to a contract extension, they did lock themselves into a direction. But I think that, like you mentioned with Whaley getting fired by Buffalo, there is a correlation there with the Vikings where you sign someone to a deal with certain expectations or thoughts of how this is going to go. And whether ownership is realistic about that or not does not matter in this equation. It's just whether you reach those

expectations. So maybe this year, having the expectations of completely redoing your defense and thinking, well, you know, Zimmer will just coach him up. Well, you can't coach up when neither of your defensive tackles can pressure the quarterback or when you can't coach up when you lose the Neil Hunter or when you play on such thin ice that if anything goes wrong, you're going to fall in. Well, that's exactly what happened to them this year. And then now they don't have a cap situation that's easy to get out of. And they also have a coach. I mean, in fairness, two of those offensive coordinators left for head coaching jobs.

So, I mean, they did a good job. Kevin Stefanski and Pat Shermer under Mike Zimmer didn't necessarily leave on bad terms like some other offensive coordinators did. So it's not everybody, but it does feel like there's a different tenor to this sort of reboot of Zimmer than there was when he first got here, when the organization was just totally lost at sea. And now they're an organization that has different expectations of where they should be. So before, it's sort of like the Browns. Like Stefanski gets the Browns a playoff win.

It's like, oh, my God, a playoff win for the Browns. Well, guess what? If two years from now they're not winning playoff games, he'll probably be fired. I mean, it's just kind of, it's like you're a victim of your own expectations that you've set. And I feel the same way about Zimmer.

And then what you laid out in the piece is that Zimmer's really, I'm going to be hard on everybody and that kind of thing. That fit really well at one point. And so did run the ball when adrian peterson is your running back and you know teddy bridgewater case keen or your quarterbacks run the ball play defense like that works but now they might just need something else and it feels like it and i read this on my comment section all the time it feels like everybody can see this but you huh like with with

ownership right totally and and with ownership must not see there i mean you tell me man i mean maybe this is maybe i'm misreading this but like a point that that monas and whaley make all the time i mean they were jim monas what was doug whaley's right hand man in buffalo as you know for for four years, and then they're gone. But they always say, like, the coach, the head coach and the GM, it sounds cliche, but they've got to be synced up. Like, they've got to be on the same page.

If they're not on the same page, if you don't have a clear hierarchy of, like, who's doing what and we believe in this all together, it's bound to fail and you know whether it was Doug Marone quitting to Rex Ryan doing whatever the hell Rex Ryan was doing day to day it was just a clown show with him to then Sean McDermott I mean Monis got McDermott the interview and then they hire McDermott and then McDermott basically fires them so that's kind of an interesting dynamic in Buffalo but anyways like they never nobody was ever on the same page there. And in Minnesota, I think I kind of see the same thing. I know they've been together a long time, Zimmer and Spielman, but reporting on that story, I got the sense that Terrence Newman kind of said it himself.

What are we talking about Zimmer for? Look at what they did at quarterback. They gave Kirk Cousins all this money. That's who we should be talking about. I'm not saying he speaks for Mike Zimmer, but I don't know. You were at those press conferences early on where Mike Zimmer didn't seem that excited about Kirk Cousins and that contract right out of his chute. I'm not so sure he was all

on board with that like Rick Spielman might have been. I don't think they necessarily see eye to eye on a lot. I'm surprised it's lasted this long. And maybe that's kind of part of the problem is that they sell the fact that they're synced up when they're really not synced up. Right. And they're just kind of joining the hip and they just kind of go year to year to year. And here we are in 2021.

It feels very much like individually these people are all good at what they do but the sum of the parts is less than it should be um and and i mean like look this is not a failure of an organization seven and nine season is not a like total rebuild like tanking type of thing it's not like you put out a product that was embarrassing this year or something and the same thing goes for the eight seven and one or the ten and six like these aren't embarrassing seasons by any means but that wasn't the goal like the goal when you signed kirk cousins was let's let's not embarrass ourselves no it was like let's go compete for a championship let's go win it and so 25 wins in three years is not what you were looking for when you signed him so you have a general manager who i think is done overall in a front office i like to say front office

because the gm is just one guy who listens to a lot of people and makes decisions but you have a general manager who I think has done overall in a front office. I like to say front office because the GM is just one guy who listens to a lot of people and makes decisions. But you have a general manager who did a great job building your last team and made a lot of very good decisions building that team that he hasn't really repeated since then. He's sort of gone against the way you built the last team. You have a head coach who wants a quarterback like Teddy Bridgewater who's going to check it down and who's not going to turn the ball over and is going to be kind of a yes sir type of guy. And you have a quarterback who I think if you have him let loose as a passer can have a big season and can drive your success but his coach doesn't want that because he's afraid of his turnovers and you just sort of have these these three forces pulling at each other it's like well which one is going to break

are you going to move on from cousins and bring in a cheaper quarterback so Zimmer can build up his defense are you going to move on from a general manager so you can build the team the way Zimmer wants are you going to move on from your coach so you can build your team around this quarterback but I feel like all these things going on at the same time doesn't really fit for having a successful team in the future totally agree like I mean it's you it's it's kind of a this weird marriage that it just isn't going to work because they don't all have the same vision for how they want to live together. Like, I don't know. Like, I don't know how this is going to end. It's like, yeah, you're right.

They're not going to bottom out. I mean, Kirk Cousins, I'm not saying he's a bad quarterback. He's a good quarterback. Like, he's put up great numbers. He had statistically a really good season. But we know what Kirk Cousins is. Like, he will only take you so far. I mean, Matt Ryan in Atlanta, like he will only take you so far I mean Matt Ryan in

Atlanta he's going to take you so far I mean you could say the same thing about Matthew Stafford and in Detroit now he's in LA I don't know we're going to talk about it but I wonder like is he really the guy that's going to put him over the top I don't know I feel like we've seen enough of Stafford sometimes with these quarterbacks you kind of know what their ceiling is, and you know what Cousins' ceiling is, and it's not a really good fit for the way Mike Zimmer wants to play. It's weird. I think it's good to be – and you are with your writing and with your podcast and everything, Matt. It's good to be critical of a situation like this because you should be – I mean fans should want that. You've got a team that could

contend that's good I mean they're not like terrible like you you should be critical in that front office of what you have and I feel like maybe they aren't critical enough like last offseason they should have just cut bait at quarterback and then be in a much different situation right now and have a much brighter future right now. And if you think about it, you know, let's say there's like a test and you have four potential answers. If they circled three of them, they might be able to be a very competitive team in the NFC next year. But it feels like they either want to circle none of the above or all of them.

And it's like, let's go all of those directions at once and see what happens like if you go the direction of let's sign curtis samuel and draft davante smith and throw the ball all the time okay that could win let's go the direction of kirk cousins see ya and now we're going to build up the defense okay that could win like with marcus mariotta quarterback playing the role of kirkousins as the play-action type of handed-off. Yeah, I know. But you can win with that. They won with that with Case Keenum, right?

And you can be highly competitive. But you can't do them all at once with a bunch of people wanting a bunch of different things. And I think that's the main point about where they are as an offseason. So I'm interested to see, like, do you finally get on the same page same page and say okay this didn't work for picking a bunch of different directions we're gonna have the expensive quarterback but the great defense too and it's like there is there is push and pull here that they didn't accept before and i think if they do this offseason they can actually be one of the best teams in the nfc next year that's what's so freaking frustrating about this if you're a Vikings fan.

Like, you gave Dalvin Cook all that money right after you gave Kirk Cousins that money, and then double down on Kirk Cousins. And I can't figure out, like, what are you? And you've got smart people there who can draft well. I mean, certain positions they draft as well as any team in the league. And I don't know. You know what it comes back to, Matt? It's,'s like quarterback.

That's why the quarterback, what you do at quarterback is a zillion times more important than anything you do anywhere else. You know, Rick Spielman has done a lot right running the show, but where he has failed multiple times over is at quarterback. And if you mess up there, it's going gonna poison the rest of the roster and the rest of your decisions and we're having a conversation like this where we don't know what direction they're going they might not even know because of quarterback and um gosh it's it's just got to be frustrating as a fan because it's like you see a team that could win you see people who know what

they're doing and yet you mess up at one spot you're you're gonna be stuck i mean look i don't even fall i mean when they when they signed kirk cousins like i think a lot of people assume that was the mood there's i was gonna put the vikings over the top yeah you got to do it you got to go all in you add that quarterback to that defense great but at some point you got to you got to just kind of swallow your ego and say this isn't gonna work or you're stuck and they're kind of swallow your ego and say, this isn't going to work. Or you're stuck, and they're kind of stuck. I want to remind you about our friends at SodaStick. If you use the promo code PURPLEINSIDER,

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That's SodaStick.com, S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K.com. Original Minnesota sports-inspired goods. Code Purple Insider for free shipping. And they also have to live in reality of, like, who he is, where he's not a guy that puts a team on his shoulders and elevates them. You have to elevate him. And this is where I want to transition into the Matt Stafford, Jared Goff, Kirk Cousins also

in this conversation type of quarterbacks where it's astonishing to me that the Los Angeles Rams could let their supporting cast for their quarterback fall apart they don't have a good enough offensive line anymore they don't have the receivers that they once had at one point Brandon Cooks is a great receiver for them. Sammy Watkins is a big contributor. And then all of a sudden it's like, who is Reynolds? When you're watching them, you're like, oh, they have a tight end that they seem to throw to now that they never really did before because they had great receivers. And the offensive line, like, oh, they can let their top guard go or whatever.

And it turns out you can't really. Oh, they can trade everything for Jalen Ramsey, great player, but that doesn't help your quarterback at all. That makes his life harder, just like kind of with the Vikings where, oh, yeah, let's just sign Anthony Barr to a huge contract. That's not making Kirk Cousins' life better. And now their hope is, oh, it's actually this other guy who is way worse in terms of his record and statistically a lot of similarities to Jared Goff.

But no, he's the answer. It feels to me very much like a Case Keenum to Kirk Cousins situation where they talk themselves into it. But with defense, whoever repeats as number one defense from year to year anymore, it's like the Patriots a couple years ago, oh, they're just unbelievable. It's Stephon Gilmore. Two years later, they can't stop anybody. Same with the Vikings. Oh, look how great Zimmer's built this defense.

Two years later, can't stop anybody. I mean, the Rams just hoping that Stafford is the answer. After having watched Stafford lose six straight games to the Vikings, I don't think your results are going to be vastly different because you're assuming everything stays exactly the same as it is now. And also, just to add on to this, you're assuming no one's figured out McVay a little, which I wouldn't make that assumption.

I could not agree with you anymore completely. Like, you're right. You don't see a top three defense repeat itself year in and year i mean they could be very good next year but to be number one i mean and also you know i remember watching them here in buffalo get lit up so i mean game to game things change matthew stafford doesn't strike me as that player is going to put you over the top himself like you said we've seen it in detroit we've seen it in Detroit. We've seen him with really good supporting cast, with nothing around him.

He's kind of been the same guy year in and year out. And I just really wonder, too, with McVay. We all assume he's a genius. We all assume he's at the cutting edge of everything. I mean, if you say anything to the contrary of that, you're the idiot. But let's look, like you said, let's look at that talent that was on that offense when he like those first two two and a half years when he had gosh you just mentioned all the players cooks walkins girly in his prime yes young girl was amazing it was amazing i mean everywhere you look there was talent and it kind of reminds me in a sense of mike mccarthy and the packers in in 2000 and what

do you want to say 2009 to about 2012 when he had all those guys in the cover of sports illustrated with jennings and finley and jordy nelson and donald driver and randall cobb it was just sick how much weaponry they had and when those guys left mike mccarthy and his offense got pretty stale. Totally different offenses, completely different. I mean, McVay is using misdirection, motion, and all that. McCarthy's offense, I mean, guys are in the same position. But just the concept that maybe players do drive this game.

Maybe players make plays. And, yeah, coaching helps and schematics help and all that. But I don't think we should be in such a rush and in unanimous agreement that McVay is the genius. I'm sorry, McVay is the genius. Golf sucks. And if you disagree with that, you're an idiot. Like maybe golf is pretty good. Maybe McVay isn't a genius, and maybe they got to the Super Bowl

because they had a lot of talent. And now they've got some guys out there we don't know. Maybe the level of genius of the coach only has x percentage of how much that really matters and we put a lot more percentage like let's say it's actually two percent and we think it's like 40 percent and that that might be the way i look at it uh kevin stefanski said to me uh one time when i asked i asked something about scheme or whatever and he said look i mean i try best that I can, but it's about the players. Like, you know, I study our players and try to put them in the best positions I can, but that's all I can really do. Like, I can't throw the pass for them.

And, I mean, the same thing, same approach with Pat Shermer where he would ask players, like, does this work for you or how can I put you in a better spot? But that's all you can really do. And so sometimes we anoint these people as if they have magic powers the Vikings defensive line coach is fantastic he's a great coach he connects with guys he teaches his technique he's good as it gets their defensive line was last in the league this year I mean that and guess why because Everson Griffin left and Linvald Joseph left and all of a sudden that's where you're at. So you can get, I think a little percentage more. You can make players more happy with a coach that works with them and works with their strengths and you can game plan really well. All those things are facts, but when it comes down to it, when you have everybody, I mean, even Mahomes is being put in great positions by his coach it's not

like andy reed is some schlub who never did anything and then all of a sudden mahomes just carries himself like you do have an effect there for sure it's helpful but if you get convinced as a coach that it's you that's doing it you end up making a stupid trade like this for matt stafford that's what i that's how I read this situation. McVay's like, not me. It couldn't be me. It's got to be him. I'm the genius.

I'm the one who's going to dial up everything. Get me a quarterback with a stronger arm who throws interceptions and takes sacks all the time. And that will be the answer. And I think that hubris in the NFL is so fascinating to cover because all of us in the media have such small egos. No, I'm just kidding.

But it's, it's fun to accuse other people of having big egos. But, but I really think that like these coaches believing it's, it's all me. It's not the players. That's where you start to see mistakes. Totally.

That's completely it. It's, it's McVay thinking that he's the one that's right. Jared Goff isn't good enough. I'll give up all of these picks, what, two first and second for somebody else with a strong arm who will be exactly what I want him to be. And, hey, you know what? Let's play this tape back in here and see where we stand. But I tend to agree.

I think that Stafford is a good eight and eight nine and seven quarterback you know in that division though we haven't seen shanahan's move a quarterback yet right you know that that's going to be really interesting seattle ain't going anywhere i know arizona kind of bottomed out at the end of the year but like there there isn't really like a crap team in that division that you're going to walk all over like it's completely up for grabs. I'm not ready to anoint the LA Rams Super Bowl contenders after this trade at all. Definitely. Yeah, no, definitely not.

Because you would have to go on a lot of assumptions that you just can't go on. And especially starting with the defense. It's funny, just like a week ago or a couple weeks ago, I was saying on the show, like, man, I'm actually impressed by Jared Goff. The guy's got a broken thumb. He's out there playing hard against the Packers, and their defense just couldn't stop Green Bay. That's why you lost, not even because of Jared Goff, and now he's traded to the Lions. And I think, and I know Vikings fans don't like this, but I think the Lions nailed it, and my face feels weird saying the words, I think the Lions nailed it. But here's the problem Vikings fans have. If you admit that the Lions nailed it, you kind of have to say it's a smart move to trade Kirk Cousins.

And then you have to kind of admit that it might be a better route to rebuild some of the things that you have. And I think that there are a lot of people, and I don't blame them for this, who just don't want to suffer, to use a famous Buffalo Sabres general manager term. They don't want a lot of suffering, and they want to be competitive, and they want to see good football. And so if you trade Kirk Cousins and you end up with Ryan Fitzpatrick as your quarterback for a year, you're probably going 6-10 ten and you're rebuilding a lot of things that feels pretty painful to talk about so you know i think that there's a there is a case there kind of based on what just happened with detroit but i think a lot of people just don't want to deal

with that totally yeah they don't they don't want to the because the assumption is all right well detroit's clearly not going to win this year, and they're looking to the future, and they inherited golf's contract, which I don't – we can talk about the salary cap sometime, but it's not – I think it's a little overblown. Like, it's, all right, they took on this money, whatever, but they got these picks. They're looking to the future. That can be tough to, you know, convince fans to buy into,

like, and to get fans to show up at your stadium whenever they can show up to a stadium i feel like in minnesota the ownership probably kind of likes the fact that like they're always going to be in the conversation i mean you can talk yourself into the vikings being a contender pretty much every year it seems and that's going to get people to go to a stadium you're able to get build a new stadium out of it so that's pretty good you know not a lot of teams can do that. So, hey, maybe they're playing chess, we're playing checkers.

The bottom line is the bottom line. But I feel like they're kind of stuck. As two entrepreneurs, you and I, we do need to learn from these things. Yes. So I want to know from you, I got two more things to ask about this offseason now we've already had the first domino fall what's the next domino do you think around the league that falls because it feels like we could have 18 new quarterback situations by the time this is all said and done i would just be uh pissing in the wind as they say right i mean who knows what's going to happen next? Deshaun Watson, right? It's got to happen. I can't see the Texans forcing him to play for them and David Culley and the mess that's there right now.

I don't know. I know he signed that big contract. Maybe they do play hardball. I feel like there's such a market for him that they could get a ton of picks and really rebuild. I mean, they're not going to win next year, so you might as well if your quarterback's that unhappy. That could be the next domino. I mean, where is it? Every team not named Buffalo.

Hey, maybe you should include Buffalo in the AFC East. Like, gosh, I feel like the Dolphins have the ammo to do it. They've got the money to do it. Who doesn't want to live in South Florida? So that could be a team. That could be a domino. the ammo to do it they've got the money to do it who doesn't want to live in south florida so right that could be a team that could be a domino i mean i'm just just guessing here but i would kind of love to see that just to see watson versus josh allen twice a year would be great i think a lot of teams probably would hold back on offers for other quarterbacks if you're in the mix at all

so that you'd be like oh maybe you know probably not going to jump in on the matt stafford conversation because we're going to wait for the deshaun watson and then once that domino falls and then you have everything else is going to be a mad dash and then you know some people want the draft to be before free agency i kind of like the draft after free agency so we have a lot of things in place that add to the intrigue or a lot of things that teams did. So who gets signed where for quarterbacks, who gets traded where, and then we'll have a sense for like, OK, what could happen with these quarterbacks in the draft that are a great crop of quarterbacks in the draft too. The last thing I wanted to ask you is you do a ton of amazing interviews with people on go long. Like you've got, you got some a listers coming on for Q and A's and long form stories and things like that. Since you started, which was just a couple of months ago, um, your site to do long form stuff,

give me your best story. Give me your best Q and A or the most interesting thing that you've come across. Because I mean, if you have a free, free, not just paid, but you have a free list too, so people could get some stuff. So if you go to GoLongTD, you'll get some of the Q&As and things like that. Amazing stuff. So I want you to give me the best of the best. Man, I appreciate the plug there, Matt. Thank you very much. I hope folks check it out. I would say, you know, right up there would be our first two-parter probably. You know, that Bill stuff is still really fascinating to me, especially now that we're in the Super Bowl week with Patrick Mahomes. And to really get that kind of honesty from Whaley, from Monis,

and just learn what happened behind the scenes and just how much the owner of a team loved Patrick Mahomes and did not force his own team that he owns to take Patrick Mahomes blows my mind. And, you know, I think it worked out in the end. I think it set a good precedent that he's not going to be that Jerry Jones, Al Davis type, Terryagula that is and he allowed Sean McDermott to kind of build his own foundation his own system and here they are I mean they're 13 and 13 that was just in the AFC championship game but who did they lose to they lost to Patrick Mahomes they lost to the quarterback that the

owner of the team wanted I can't imagine what went through Terry Pagula's mind watching that game but that dynamic to be kind of at the the forefront of that and learn all of that I think that's probably our best piece so far just because the Bills aren't going anywhere Mahomes isn't going anywhere they they're going to be facing each other for a long long time and how often do you kind of get that story behind the scenes so I'm definitely going to strive to try to hunt down as many of those types of stories as we can because you know what the fans deserve it like it's i mean you do the same kind of stuff matt we got to give these fans something beyond the the zoom press conference and that's there's a lot of centralized messaging going on with the

nfl today it's tough to get original stuff so i'm always trying to talk to guys one-on-one as much as i can to learn something beyond the bs that spewed all the time can i make a fun little argument for you about so everyone hates the meddling owner like that's the thing that all fans i think like 98 would agree the meddling owner is bad however here here's what i think i'll make this case the owner should make the first round pick for his team here's why so he can't hold it against the people in charge when they get it wrong because we all get it wrong if i put two dishes for my bowl and i said patrick mahomes or mitch trubisky and the dog went and ate one and i picked that guy i'd have just as much of a chance as the real guy.

I mean, and every study that's ever been done says this. If the owner of the team randomly picks based on the information he's given, if you said, hey, I'm the GM owner, here's five guys who we could pick. You make the call. That owner then can never hold it against his general manager. The rest of the picks the owner then can never hold it against his general manager the rest of the picks the other guys can make everyone would hate it but it would actually be better for interpersonal communications because the odds of the gm getting it right or the owner are exactly the same i

totally agree and also like you're right we all hate the meddling owner but you know what what if you or i had billions of dollars and we bought i'd make the pick a hundred percent that would be part of the interview i'd be like you're never making a first round pick that's me why i have the billions of dollars that i'm paying you with i own the team you know what i busted my ass to get to this point you know what i i'm gonna do whatever the hell i want as the owner that's why it's so fascinating to me that that terry didn't he didn't I know his hand I know loved Patrick Mahomes loved him before anybody October of Mahomes's last year at Tech you know and we didn't even know who he was he was on it so it's it's just fascinating to me that he wouldn't step in

on somebody he easily could have yeah and I wonder um I mean the thefs, I don't think have any say on some of these things. Like I think that they accept the information and say, okay, all right, that's how it's going to work or whatever. I don't have a great sense for that. But I just feel like, you know, even there was a story about Daniel Snyder where Jay Gruden said, well, Snyder would come off his yacht and make the pick and Hey, sometimes it could be a disaster like Dallas, you know, wanted johnny manziel or jerry jones wanted johnny manziel that would have been a complete although for entertainment purposes would have been fun but a total disaster but just

as many disasters would be just as many success stories and gms get hired and fired on first round picks so it's just uh i don't know like random thought popped into my head is like terry should have made the pick like yeah let the football men pick the sixth rounder because you don't know who the sixth rounder is but you pick the first one so you can never be mad at them and mcdermott's lucky that josh allen has worked out for now very very very let's not forget that sean mcdermott trottedotted Nathan Peterman out there twice. Once in the middle of a playoff hunt. They're not just in the hunt. If it ended that day, they were in the playoffs, I believe.

You start Peterman, and then he's your opening day starter the next year ahead of Josh Allen after you drafted Allen. How much does he know about the quarterback position? I'm not sure. I think he definitely owes it to Brandon Bean. Sounds like Bean was at the forefront of choosing Josh Allen over Josh Rosen. Isn't it crazy? I mean, that thin line between being a Super Bowl champion and being unemployed talking on a podcast with myself, like Jim Otis is, it blows my mind.

Yeah, well, this was super fun. And again, I know I've said it already a number of times, but go long TD. Um, uh, you are part of the substack nation. People can find it go long td.substack.com sign up for at least the free, um, uh, because you'll get a lot of great articles from Tyler and just awesome to catch up with you, man. Talk ball. Great stuff. Anytime, Matt. Thanks so much for everything. Appreciate it. Thank you.