Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Viking legend Robert Smith talks Randy Moss, Kene Nwangwu and a crazy Vikings season

Episode Date: December 3, 2021

Former Vikings running back Robert Smith joins the show to talk about following this Vikings team as a post-game analyst and how crazy the games have been. He discusses why the Vikings' run game hasn't been as good this year, why Kene Nwangwu is such an exciting young player and his greatest pass block ever on Warren Sapp. Robert tells a great Randy Moss story and discusses what he sees in terms of similarities with Justin Jefferson. Plus PFF's Austin Gayle joins to discuss the Vikings' draft class. Does he see a long-term star in Christian Darrisaw? Is Nwangwu special? What should we make of the upcoming QB class in the NFL draft? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

oh welcome to another episode of purple insider matthew collar here and joining me on the show minnesota vikings legend he has been a longtime TV analyst and now also doing work for Vikings Entertainment on postgame shows. Former running back Robert Smith. What is up, Robert? How are you? I'm good, man. How are you doing? I'm doing well.

You picked a heck of a year to do postgame shows, man. Oh, boy. It's been a crazy ride. It's been a crazy ride. You know, the interesting thing is, like, obviously you want to be neutral and, you know, try and look at everything analytically. And I do. But it's just tough. It's tough to sit in there and watch the games

and to go through everything that the fans are going through, quite frankly, this year. I mean, I've watched the vikings in years past but never this closely game in and game out and so you know all the ups and downs and the fretful moments late in games like it's it's it's been draining yeah i know i mean even from a reporter perspective usually there's a few games a year where i mean you know by the second half the thing's over we're going back for a few more donuts year where, I mean, you know, by the second half, the thing's over, we're going back for a few more donuts or whatever. Right. I mean, like normally that's the case, but this is the most anxiety as us up in the press box, I think have felt toward the end

of these games, the number of rewrites that we've had, like, Oh, you know, right. Game is over. It's fine. Oh, there's one more drive and here we go um but i mean you played in enough of these close games i mean what is it like down on the field the sideline when you know the game is coming down to it and after a week after week you got to think that these guys are exhausted of it yeah and you know quite frankly like i i don't really remember you know too many times like to me i it was never never very rarely that I felt relaxed on the sideline because even if that game was over, it was always the next one. You know what I mean?

It was never that light, although there are some games, especially in 98 where we scored so many points, where we were able to relax you know, relax a little bit on the sideline. But yeah, it was usually always pretty tense just thinking about, you know, the work that still had to be done. Yeah. And I definitely want to ask you about that season, but sticking with where they're at right now, I mean, it's such an interesting contrast of the team has plenty of reason to believe they're good because they're in every game and they beat the Packers and they should have made a field goal and beat Arizona.

Those are the two top teams in the NFC that they've played. And yet they also lost the game to Cooper rush. They almost lost to Detroit last time. And then, you know, they go out to San Francisco with a chance to kind of carry that momentum and come up short. I,

it feels like all year long, it's been kind of hard to figure out come up short. I, it feels like all year long, it's been kind of hard to figure out, is this team legitimately competitive? Is there something that's missing there? I feel like it's been difficult for us. Yeah. And I would say that obviously I think it's, it's one of the more talented teams in the league and not a cop-out, but it's, it's not like other teams haven't had some of the same issues. And the difference between, you know, a 9-2 record and a 7-4 record or, you know, a 6-5 or 5-6, they're not as big as people think.

There's a lot of parity in the league. It's very difficult to win any one game and i think you know over the last couple of weeks i would say that the problems that that really plagued the team uh we start talking about penalties mental errors things like that they have gotten cleaned up uh but it there there's still some of them and it just depends on when they happen in games and what the particular situation is, so what the consequence of that mistake's going to be. Thinking back to the game a week ago, that's what really did it. Late in the game, some of the problems that happened,

it's going to cost you when you make them at those times. And I think probably the last game in particular is probably Kirk's last game. And most teams are going to go as their quarterback goes. And he's been playing so well this year, but so many other things had gone poorly. And then even though some of those other mistakes got cleaned up, it was too much to overcome with some of his inconsistencies thrown the football a week ago. Yeah, and that's been the season is that there have been times where the offense is really cooking, and yet maybe there's holding penalties

or there's defensive breakdowns. And then you have the injuries that have really impacted them lately where Daniil Hunter goes out and now you're just a different football team when you don't have that superstar and you're kind of reliant on Kirk Cousins to have a big game all the time. Uh, the other thing too, that I've noticed Robert from the couple of years past is their running game just isn't as effective this year as it has been recently, even though I think Delvin cook is still very good. Now he's out, we'll get to Kenny Wong and all that. But, um, I wonder what you make of that as someone who had, uh, you know, a good amount of success

running the football. Like what, what is it that may be different there that seems to be holding them back a little bit? Well, I mean, there have been different combinations, obviously, having Udo in at right guard and Rashad Hill and then Derrissaw was in and got hurt. And, you know, Mason Cole being in for Bradbury now. Like there have been some changes. And, you know, it's just Rudolph and you lose Irv Smith, your top two tight ends aren't on the roster this year, as well as Tyler Conklin has played. You know, those are things that are hard to get over,

especially, you know, with a guy like Kyle Rudolph that was such a great blocking tight end. So that can't be discounted as part of the performance of the overall offensive line as well. So when you look at this team before the season, that was the biggest question mark going in. And I think that the concern has been justified by the performance that we've seen. And you're absolutely right. I mean, I've noticed the same thing, that the run game hasn't been as consistent. And I think that that would noticed the same thing, that the run game hasn't been as consistent.

And I think that that would be the primary issue, that the performance up front just hasn't been what it's been in years past. You make a great point. Before the season when Irv Smith was lost, I talked to a couple of people who follow the Rams closely and asked them, hey, how did they run out of those three wide receiver sets so successfully? And everybody said, Oh, it's Robert Woods. He's just this great blocker that they use like a tight end. And I wondered, okay, is KJ Osborne going to be able to do that or this team? And, uh, I think the answer's been really know that there are so few receivers that can make that three wide receiver thing effective in the run game too. Um, and so they were before getting the other team's extra linebacker on the

field with multiple tight ends. And so I think you're right that it, that it's, it's a bunch of different reasons. And also they wanted to do better in terms of their pass blocking by putting Udo at right guard, but also he's a guy who's a former tackle and now you're asking him to be a zone blocker.

It's like, it's really hard to make these things work. I was going to ask you what it feels like when you're whooping the other team on the ground because this is a conversation football and analytics and running the ball and all these things that happen a lot um you know in the football world and i just wonder when when you're out there and your offensive line is is moving the other team down the field like what does that feel like as an offense? Because it seems like there's just a different level of confidence when that's happening.

Oh, I mean, I would flip it around, quite honestly, because to a man and to a coach, to a player, you ask them what it feels like when they can't stop the run, and they'll tell you it's demoralizing. Because you can't do anything. You're getting your teeth kicked in play after play. And it feels good. Not to sound overly violent, but it feels good to kick in an opponent's teeth.

When you're really running the ball like that and the holes are opening up and it just feels like anything can work because at any moment, that's when you get an opportunity to turn that into play action and take those shots downfield and get those big explosive plays. It makes such a difference. Right, and I think that if there's one concern for the Vikings against Detroit, who's 0-10-1, is that they're not horrendous at running the football. And from what we saw last week against San Francisco, and there's not a great comparison.

San Francisco is as good as it gets. But if there's one thing, and you know this, I'm sure, the Vikings fans are always nervous. If there's one thing that could make you nervous against Detroit, I think that that's it. Yeah. Well, the other, the other thing is, is that they've been pretty good defensively and not having Delvin cook. I'm guessing, uh, this weekend, I haven't seen any, anything different, but I would be surprised if he was in there.

He's out Robert. Yeah. He's yeah. So, I mean that, you know, those know, those are things that would be concerning. And it's not like we just, no pun intended, ran away with it in the first game. You know, tried to get that team away in the second half, just got real conservative. They fought their way back in and, you know, were able to end up winning the game. But, you know, that was a frustrating win the first time around.

It most certainly was and another one that we thought all right it's 16 to 6 this should be fine they'll take care of it we'll write vikies take care of business against the lions and then all of a sudden all hell breaks loose but that's how it goes uh i want to ask you about uh justin jefferson and your view on him um because you played with a couple of decent wide receivers, Robert. Uh, and I, I just like, it's hard to say the name Randy Moss with anybody, um, no matter what statistics anybody puts up or whatever else. But when Justin Jefferson wears a Randy Moss shirt and says he wants to be a legend like Moss, I think we'd laugh at most people, but for him, we go like, yeah, okay. You're doing that.

Uh, I just wanted to like your view of being able to see every game now and watch him up close. Um, and having played with Carter and played with Boston and Jake Reed and, and kind of how, how you view him. Yeah, it's been, it's been a blast, uh, quite frankly, to see, to see him play. And then, you know, I was able to call a couple of the games for the Vikings last year, call games for Fox, you know, earlier in the season against the Colts and then, you know, the game against Detroit at the end of the year. And got to see him then, you know, in person.

You know, he's phenomenal. And I think, you know, unlike a Randy, you know, because Randy, it's just different with Randy. Like, he's just so far off the charts from a measurable standpoint with the combination of the height and the speed that he just added an element to the game that was just, you know, almost impossible for people to deal with. And really, I think, understood the game a lot more than people give him credit for, probably because he's so athletic. But when I watch Justin and I watch his routes and his understanding of where he needs to be, situational football, underneath catches, he does such a nice job of positioning his body

and catching with his hands and just doing all the things that a receiver needs to do. He's been tremendous. And I know that people were wondering coming into the league, could he operate outside of the slot and get on the outside? You have fewer options to beat defenders out there. So is your route running going to be developed enough and i i think it certainly has been so he's been he's been fun to watch

you know does he does he have everything that randy has no but um he's he's uh a tremendous uh a tremendous student of the game i think clearly, because it's not just admiring people. I think it's really studying people and studying himself, it seems, because he's modifying his releases, he's modifying his moves, he's doing everything that he needs to do to stay consistent. Yeah, that's really stuck out to me. When he talked about this last offseason, putting focus into hiring a specific coach to work on balance and all these things and going home from practice and sitting down with his brother and watching film. I mean, these are things that not everybody who gets a taste of stardom does, right? I mean, some guys

get the taste of stardom and kind of say, Oh, I can, I can handle this league. And yet for him, he wanted to take it to another level, which I think we've seen this year because everybody's focusing on him and he's still doing the same thing. Can you can you give me a Moss story? I mean, what's the story you like to tell when everybody asks you for a Moss story? Oh, well, it was the the Deion Sanders of the world. You know, in track, I had been in a race with Carl Lewis. Like I've seen I've been around a lot of athletes like world class Hall of Fame, top of their sport, top of the history of the sport, some of those athletes. And I saw him in the first training camp practice. And this is obviously without pads on, but it didn't matter.

And I remember my agent, actually, my agent, by the way, represents Belachek and he represents mel tucker too so oh not doing too bad there not doing too bad but i remember he called me up he's like how did randy look i've never seen anything like this like he moved so differently than everybody else like and that's the thing that's the thing that really stands out because you can just see that people are just moving differently. Not just the speed, but the fluidity of the movements and the way that he snatched the ball so cleanly out of the air. I said, if he's healthy, he's going to be a Hall of Famer. I've never seen anything like he's that much far and above anything that I've ever seen.

I can't possibly be wrong. And I don't think that it really took any great football mind to see that. You just had to see it in person, him moving next to a bunch of other professional athletes and looking like that. It was a no-brainer. You know, that's the thing that everybody thought of throughout his career. It's just this, this like mossing people and running by people, throwing his arm up, which I asked Gus Farad about one time.

And Gus said that meant just throw it up to him. Like he was abandoning whatever route he was supposed to run. He was running straight, which is really just, you know, a cool story. But the thing that I feel like we understand so much better about Randy now than we did during his career is just his intelligence and what role that played in his game. Because Belichick was telling a story about how Randy would come to him with all these suggestions and all these things he saw on film. And I just think that like Randy even admitted one time in a press conference, we were there when he was going to the ring of honor. He just didn't let anybody in. Like people from the outside did not know these things about randy moss i think his post career has been so interesting yeah yeah it really has and you know i've heard belichick talk about that

and um you know and heard other quarterbacks talk about that like his understanding of the game like you have to at that level especially when defenses are designed to stop you. Like that's everything, everything that they're doing is designed to make sure that he can't do what he did for his whole career. So, you know, the combination, coaches can't do that stuff alone. Like players have to be able to relay information to their coaches that are going to allow them to make those kind

of adjustments. Yeah, no, it's, it's just really interesting. And if anybody hasn't seen the documentary Rand university of his background and how he grew up and everything, it's, um, it's been really, uh, I think cool for fans to understand him better as someone who transformed this franchise to kind of what it is today in terms of popularity. Now you mentioned, uh, not so humble brag of racing Carl Lewis. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. There's a difference now. Hey, come on.

I didn't race Carl Lewis. I was in a race with Carl Lewis. It was a 4x100 meter relay. We were both running anchor leg. That's still a pretty significant humble brag, I think, Robert. But, hey, you were a 95 rated on Madden, which is how I knew you growing up. It's like, well, I want to play with Robert Smith because he's the fastest guy in the game and he just runs by people. I want to ask you about that because

Kenny Wong Wu is really interesting for fans because that guy, at least from the sideline, I've been on training camp is the quickest explosiveness that I've covered since I've been covering the Vikings over the last five years. What is the difference between being fast as in in a race with Carl Lewis fast and fast on the football field as in averaging five yards to carry fast? Like how how does that difference work? Because there's a lot of track guys, but there's not a lot of football fast guys. Yeah, well, I mean, there you can't just be fast and play football well.

And I certainly don't think that about Nwongu. And saw him at Iowa State, called some of his games there, so I had an opportunity to see that speed in person. But there's a significant difference and it doesn't matter how much somebody prepares for that kind of speed that extra step

you know, guys like a Tyree Kill that extra bit of speed it's deadly because no matter how much you prepare for it even if you think you're taking the right angle or you think that you're going to get to where you need to be on time, you only have to be a hundredth of a second off.

And it's the difference between that play got filled properly from a run-fit perspective to it's a touchdown. And that's what the game is about you know it's it's funny i interviewed brian look a few weeks ago and um he was like uh yeah you know i've always thought the two things determine games i said hold on brian i know exactly what it is it's it's the turnover margin and it's the number of explosive plays that you create yeah and the explosive plays that you can create when you have just an extra step of speed, uh,

the opportunities are, are just, they're tremendous. Yeah. And that's why I think a lot of people want to see, like, how are they going to use them? How much can you get in the offense?

You made a great point in the post game show last week about, Hey hey you need to be able to pass protect though so yeah just explain that part of it because i think that's a hard concept and we write it every training camp hey i know you're excited about this rookie but if you can't pass protect the quarterback's going to get killed um but i could understand where fans would be like come on give him the football like explain that to me yeah well i think a guy like a guy like him, first of all, you want him in the pass game. And you can't always design pass plays to have the running back be the hot. Because what defenses do is they start designing their defense to take away hot routes and then cover up the, or to blitz,

and then cover up the hot route immediately. So if you always do the same thing, then, you know, your offense is not going to work properly. So he's going to have to block at some point. And if he doesn't know who he's supposed to block, then, you know, he can't step on the field. If he doesn't know who to block, he can't step on the field, period. Because he's going to get somebody hurt, namely his quarterback,

which, you know, teams don't like having hurt. And if you can't do it physically and you can't change it up, meaning sometimes, you know, with a linebacker, you know, you can't just cut people all the time. Because if you cut people all the time, they jump you. We see it with people carrying the ball and, you know, jumping over tacklers. You can't just cut people all the time because if you cut people all the time they jump you we see it with people carrying the ball and you know jumping over tacklers you can't just cut people all the time sometimes you have to stay up on people and if you can't physically and from a technically stand technical standpoint to handle uh those aspects of blocking first knowing who to block

but then from a technical standpoint especially if you're not the biggest person in the world, being able to handle that physically to be able to block, then again, you just can't be on the field. They can't afford to have somebody on the field like that. And I'm not saying he doesn't do either one of those things well, but if you're evaluating whether somebody should be in a game and should have some opportunities to touch the ball, just understand that a running back must first and foremost be able to protect the quarterback. Yeah, for sure. And for rookies, it's so complicated out there. The blitzes they send, especially when it comes to third down,

they've just got more complicated. Did you ever whoop somebody? Did you ever, as a running back, really get somebody that was memorable and nobody noticed because Randy caught a touchdown or something, but when you look back at the tape on Monday, or you know i feel like that happens all the time when we go back and look at the tape and go oh wow like delvin really got that guy on that that big passing play do you have a memorable one uh yeah it was a warren satt and i remember it so much because he came up to me afterwards he's like you do you do that shit again. I'm coming to get you. I mean, he was joking around.

He was like, you do that shit again. I'm coming to get your ass. Like, hey, well, you know, I mean, I'm always running the ball. So you know where I am. I'm not going to hide from you. But it's exactly what happened to him. I went towards him. And he started to jump.

And I caught him in the air. And he did a headstand oh man i mean it was just perfectly timed so yeah i remember that one just because it was so funny and you know warren just he just had such a great personality like it was he he turned it into a joke they knew and he knew i got him yeah that's oh that's amazing i mean warren sap is a good one that is a big man and he was as good as anyone in the nfl at that time that's a that's, oh, that's amazing. I mean, Warren Sapp is a good one. That is a big man. And he was as good as anyone in the NFL at that time. That's a, that's a good one to have. Um, let me ask you just one more thing, uh, before we wrap up, this has been super fun, Robert, I'm really glad we could do it. Uh, just, I want to know what, what, when you decide to walk away from the game, a lot of people talked about, Oh, you're walking away early. You let, you know, is your highest, uh, run total that you would ever had in your career. So that kind of became, um, a thing that you were talked about you walking away early. You let, you know, is your highest run total that you would ever had in your career. So that kind of became a thing that you were talked about a lot for. I wanted to know like what you were most proud of in your career though.

I mean, because it's a great career, multiple pro bowls, you're on some great offenses. And then you've turned that NFL career into a great broadcasting career. I just wonder like what, what you can, when you walked away and then look back, like what you were the most happy a great broadcasting career. I just wonder like what, what you, when you walked away and then look back, like what you were the most happy about with your career? Um, just that, uh, you know, after spending the first four years, uh, spending so much time injured, um, and, you know, being able to fight back and fight through all that and still be able to, you know, put together four straight thousand yard seasons, a couple of Pro Bowl seasons on a couple of surgically repaired knees. Because, you know, ultimately, whatever it is that my kids do, like the message is, you know, you can fight through things.

And, you know, just because you're down, doesn't mean you're out. Uh, and, and so I think that just kind of being able to fight back and kind of, uh, confirm, um, confirm what Denny had believed in me, uh, in taking me and being able to prove a lot of people wrong at, you know, by staying healthy. Yeah. That's very cool, man. Well, I'm really glad we could connect and people can by staying healthy. Yeah, that's very cool, man. Well, I'm really glad we could

connect and people can see a vikings.com the post game shows you'll be doing it. Uh, after the lions game, I didn't go out to Santa Clara for the last game. So I like looking for the post games. That was the first time that I had watched you. You just do a tremendous job on there, obviously a television veteran. Um, so it's a really great asset for the Vikings to have you. Um, so I appreciate your time, man. Thanks for getting together with me and hopefully we can do it again soon. All right.

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15-day try-at at home boogie bike guarantee and an industry-leading five-year warranty they're the best boogie bikes boogiebikes.com along with austin gale of pro football focus he's the director of content is what they call you now uh and draft guru of course and you and mike renner Your podcast used to be two-for-one drafts. Now it is the tailgate because you guys actually tailgate Austin, which I think is really cool. No, it's insane. We have had an insane year of tailgating.

We've been to Alabama, Michigan, LSU, Ohio State. It's been a fun year, man. We have been to some of the biggest stadiums in the country, and it's been fun every time. What do you think was the best one oh ann arbor was absolutely absurd this past week and i think a lot of it we're tailgating experience right it's a lot of it about the the importance of the game the atmosphere the food the drinks the people because i think lsu in 2019 probably would have topped everything but lsu now i mean they were

like talking about firing at O'Dron. We were there for the Florida game. They ended up winning that game, but still everyone's upset. I think it really does depend. So for next year, give a little hint. For next year, we're planning on some bigger, bigger matchups, not so much destinations, but looking at some of the best games in college football.

That Ohio State-Michigan football game, I mean, I'm not a college guru as yourself. Usually I'm working on something and sort of look up and look down from the TV all Saturday, or I'm traveling to a road game or whatever else. But that was the best college football game I've seen in a long time. I mean, it was back and forth, and there's so many players who you're going to see in the NFL in that game. 100%. I mean, I think that game and that Saturday overall was one of the best college football Saturdays we've really ever had.

It was absolutely absurd to see Michigan as seven, seven and a half point dogs at home beat up on Ohio state team that they have not beat since 2011. This is the first time that Michigan's ever even been in the big 10 championships since it's, since it originated. I mean, it's originated.

It's been an insanely like tough years, some tough years for jim harbaugh and and michigan trying to get over the hump right and the monkey on his back and that all was let loose once they won that game man ann arbor was on fire well i've got a lot to talk to you about nfl stuff and viking things and so forth but uh i don't know also that I've seen a performance by a single defensive player like Aiden Hutchinson in that game. And he is now number one on your guys' list because you just put out your top 100 list of which I want to get to some of the quarterbacks and how they're ranked not so impressively.

But, I mean, that was like Lawrence Taylor or something. He completely took over that game. It was insane. I mean, Ohio State's offensive line has not allowed more than 13 pressures to any team this year. Aiden Hutchinson by himself had 15. It was the biggest takeover of an offensive line I've ever seen. And no other Michigan defender had more than three pressures. Like it was him by himself.

It was absurd. I mean, I think he is right now one of the best bets to win the Heisman. Right now Bryce Young is minus 200, the favorite. But if he loses to Georgia and doesn't play well, it's going to be very difficult to give him the Heisman. CJ Stroud just lost on the road and not playing in the Big Ten Championship. And Aiden Hutchinson is plus 1,600 right now. Why would you not give it to the guy that's almost single-handedly bringing

Michigan to a title? So I think if Michigan wins and Aiden Hutchinson has one or two sacks against Iowa in the Big Ten Championship this Saturday and Bryce Young loses and potentially loses bad to a Georgia team that's favored by six and a half in the SEC Championship, I would not be surprised if the Heisman went with the first defensive player since

Charles Woodson, another Michigan defender. Right, yeah. I mean, if your goal is to give it to the best college player, I don't think there's any question who the first defensive player since Charles Woodson another Michigan right yeah I mean if your goal is to give it to the best college player I don't think there's any question who the best college player has been and again that's just me sort of gauging the landscape but I'll just since you're saying it then I feel better about it um well because I got a few tweets I did get a few tweets from people like I think the Vikings should look at this guy for their pass rush I got you gonna have to be a lot worse down the stretch than you're capable of being. But I want to talk to you about the Vikings draft class and just what we know,

because it's always interesting to sort of circle back and update ourselves on our opinions, because now that we've seen Christian Derrissaw play for a while, and he did give up one sack to Nick Bosa and got hurt in the game against San Francisco, but also played really well in his one-on-one battles with Bosa and got hurt in the game against San Francisco, but also played really well in his one-on-one battles with Bosa and has shown, I think, a physical strength that is just different from most guys that I've seen at that position. He does not get picked up and move back. When he gets beat, he can just throw out an arm and then move a dude. I think it's been a really, really promising first year for Christian Derrissaw, even though it got started slow with his injury.

Yeah, I think the only concern you'd have with Derrissaw right now is the injuries, right? Like him not being completely healthy, I think, has slowed the rush to call it, you know, one of the better picks the first round and things like that. But, man, like to trade back and to get as good of a player that Christian Derrissaw was, still, in my opinion, is one of the most absurd things we've seen. Because he has come in pro-ready, ready to rock and roll. And he has been as impressive, if not on par with Panay Sula, just hasn't played as many snaps. Creed Humphrey is kind of running away with best rookie offensive lineman. He's been insane playing center for the

Kansas City Chiefs. But Derrissaw, if he started the season healthy, I think we'd be talking about him a lot more. Yeah, I think so too. And it also really hurt their offense early on that they had to play Rashad Hill. And so it's a good point that the injuries are something we're going to have to pay attention to. And I don't know at this moment that we're recording this, what his injury is, or if it's going to take a while, because this team is not particularly friendly at telling us what injuries are for players. So he could be back next week. He could be out for the rest of the season at this moment. I'm not really sure, but that is the only concern. I think the way he's played has really put him on the map as sort of a centerpiece for them going forward. Now, the rest of the draft is interesting because Wyatt Davis, I'd love to hear your theories. Former Viking

Jeremiah Searles and I went through every possible theory of why he can't get on the field one of them just being that he's out of shape which he was uh during the preseason but um did you see it coming with wyatt davis like were there red flags because i remember draft night i gave it an a plus i thought well third round this is a guy who was expected to go higher played at ohio state like maybe he isn't starter right away, but it looks like this could be something for long-term for that position, which has been such a struggle for the Vikings. Got any theories, Austin? I mean, some of it could be because you've sat out some of the 2020 season. I think some of that, being out of shape and things like that,

maybe he's just not ready to come back to football. And I think that adjustment has been easier, obviously, for Jamar Chase and Micah Parsons. But it was not probably as easy as Wyatt Davis, especially if he came back in preseason and was out of shape. I think that's probably the biggest reason, right? I think Wyatt Davis needs to get back into football shape, which sometimes you can't do without playing football.

And maybe it's just a tough sledding for him to get to that point. Do you call it on guys early? Like when, when do you call it? Usually I get a pretty good sense in their first training camp, whether there's something there to talk about or not. That was what was hard about Derrissaw is he was never in training camps. It was like, how's he look? I have no idea. But you know, I'll give you an example for another guy, Kenny Wong Wu. We saw him touch the football in training camp and went, Whoa, everybody look out. And then he gets hurt. Another problem, but he comes back and immediately makes

an impact with a couple of touchdowns on kick returns, which are like hard to find, like a Sasquatch, hard to find kick returns these days. I think it's kind of, if you're paying close attention to these prospects, it's pretty early. You can figure out which way the wind is going to blow, but I also don't want to completely say, Hey, Wyatt Davis first year was a bust. So he's just done. Don't even think about it. I think, I think it depends on the position, right? I think with running back, if you're not hitting the ground running, it's going to be difficult. It's going to be very difficult for you to, cause your, your, your, your career ends pretty soon. Let me on pillows, 29 years old. Okay. If I work, like if you can't hit the ground running in the NFL at the running back position,

I think that's going to be tough. But for offensive linemen, I often find that you need to wait years, one year, two years. Look at Colt Miller. Colt Miller for the Las Vegas Raiders was not good his rookie season and did not play well his second season. He battled injuries throughout the start of his career. Now, you can call him comfortably a top 12, top 14 tackle in the NFL. He's paid like that, and he's played as one of the more consistent

players for that Raiders team. I think you'd call him a building block. I think offensive line usually takes years, right? It's tough to go as a 20, 21-year-old to the NFL against physically more mature people, where every down, you have to be physical. Every down, you have to beat another person in front of you, another 25, 26, 27-year-old person. Oftentimes, you don't see people hit the ground running at that position. Tristan Wirfs is a unicorn. He was physically legitimately a freak, and he hits the ground running as one of the few tackles that played super well as a rookie. But even he, I think, will get better as his career goes on.

I think Wyatt Davis is the same. Obviously, injuries are a different part of that. Factoring in injuries to bust and stuff is tough. As for other positions, linebacker, I think, takes time. Corner takes time. You want those positions. Quarterback, running back's the only one where it's like, okay, if you can't make a difference early,

you're probably never going to find the football field. Kenny Nwongu was one of my favorite sleeper running backs in this class because he's got speed. He could scoot. In today's NFL, where you're attacking space more than we've ever have spreading things out, running 10, 11 personnel, getting guys that are fast as the 49ers have seen with Raheem Moser and other guys over the past few years, that is the name of the game.

And Wong knew is exactly that. Yeah. And the thing about Wong Wu too, that I didn't really realize because everything is different with how we cover the team now. So in previous years, I would have just been in the locker room and met him and talked with him. But now it's when they bring guys out to the podium. So what I didn't realize is he's kind of big. Like he's, he's not like this two, two Atwell or something where you see, Oh,

he ran a four, two, but who's the John Ross or whatever? Like, Oh yeah, this tiny little human, who's going to get beat up by the big men. He's not like that for a guy who runs like a four to upper four twos or low four threes. He is like the size of a usual running back. The only reason I think he fell in the draft was because he didn't have a lot of attempts, right? Like he didn't play a lot of football and that will cost you a ton. But man, as we, you talked to Eric Eager a ton. I know you do. He's a good friend of mine and what he's done with college to pro projections

here at PFF is absolutely insane. And he has seen athleticism and how athleticism score translates to the NFL at the rate it is. Teams need to take that much more into account, right? Like body, how your body is built and how you are athletically is so important to your NFL success. Looking at cornerbacks with 30-inch or shorter arms are rarely producing in the NFL. Running backs that run 4 or 5-plus are rarely producing a ton of yards earned or yards gained after contact or through force missed tackles. Identifying what those small things are.

At the combine, you talk about this a ton. Like is he a 4-4 guy or a 4-6 guy? It matters. And I think with Longu, even he didn't have the production, it was well worth the flyer. I think the Vikings obviously got a steal. And this is also a point about Delvin Cook and the contract extension. And I don't mean to be doing this since he got hurt again of like,

ah, he's hurt again, told you so. But the entire world said about these running backs, this includes Christian McCaffrey and everybody else, is look, I mean, their peaks last for a very short time. And this has been the case for a long time in the NFL. And we said last year, hey, he's being used like Larry Johnson or Sean Alexander. Do you think this could be a problem long-term? And here we are, are injured less effective than he was in the past and oh look we're excited about the next running back that you found i mean uh the vikings running back coach i think plays a big role in picking the running backs in the draft and he just has

picked one after the next they had mike boone undrafted he was good and then here comes kenny wong woo he's good alexander madison is your outlier for the speed thing, but he's been mostly effective throughout his career. It kind of says there's a lot of these guys out there because now there's already one who we're excited about for the kind of future here. I mean, I think for running backs and wide receivers lately, you're seeing some of these guys that are some of the highest paid guys getting hurt, right?

Not only are you not guaranteed a long peak, but you're also not even guaranteed that peak at all, right? There are running backs who don't get hurt too fast. And that's why investing as much as they do, you know, some teams do on a single player at that position or even receiver at times can be so difficult to overcome if they do get banged up, if they do miss time. Like A.J. Brown this year, who hasn't gotten a big contract yet, but you don't like to see that julio jones davante adams has even missed a couple games i mean it has been difficult for premium players made of their position at

receiver and running back to stay healthy because they're huge so much and they run so many around all these things it's a very physical position to play i do think teams will catch up to this and what here's my take i don't know if i've ever dropped this on this show running back contracts you can even maybe even start to consider receiver contracts when they leave the draft should be shorter you should not be allowed to get a running back and he's automatically committed to a four-year contract if he's in the first round with a fifth year option you are going to abuse that player for the peak of his career and when you and then you're going to spit him out when he's not good anymore look at philip lindsey philip lindsey undrafted running back we have for a thousand yards in each of his first three seasons making like 600k a year then not as effective cut

on the street never got that big contract like that that's the concern you have at the running back position i think you should be given the option to sign shorter term deals and that way and more injury guarantees as a rookie and these different things are also, this stuff's going to happen all the time. Right. And I think that in my opinion is one of the changes that probably needs to happen too. I think the NFL teams look at it and they're like,

Oh, what a shame. Yeah, exactly. No, right. First move. It'd be like a player.

It'd be a CBA thing where like, we can't keep having running backs, you know, play super well on their rookie contracts, three or four year contracts. And then when it comes to getting paid, your teams are reluctant because he's older and all that, that it's just ridiculous. I mean, you're going to get these guys hurt before they're able to earn that like big payday in their careers. Yeah. And you think about it, Adrian Peterson signed his huge contract,

like what, seven or eight years before Delvin Cook did did and they were about the same amount of money i mean that just tells you that everybody else is getting more because they're peaking or at least sustaining success later in their careers but these running backs are just uh a british friend of mine called them cannon fodder which i thought was perfect just like put them in the cannon blow them up put in the next one and that's exactly what they're doing uh and i think that probably teams are okay with that for the most part, because they don't care. Here's one thing I'll, I'll throw out a contract CBA thing that I would have loved to have seen,

but obviously won't ever happen. If the quarterback contract only counted for X percentage. So let's say you were paying Kirk cousins, 45 million, but only 50% of it went against the cap. I feel like that would make it less of an advantage, because we're going to get to the Mac Jones thing, less of an advantage to have quarterbacks on their rookie contracts and sort of help out veteran quarterbacks instead of saying, all right, guys in the middle, Derek Carr, Tannehill, Cousins, sorry, your teams have to suffer, actually, because they signed you,

even though you are better than quarterback X who's on his rookie contract. I think that's another phenomenal way of trying to give teams that don't have a top three, top four quarterback a more competitive advantage. Because right now, and we talk about this a ton on the draft podcast I do, if you don't have a top three, top four quarterback, you need to keep drafting until you get one. Because if you pay a guy that's a fringe top eight, top 10, like the Vikings have with Kirk and the Raiders have with Derek Carr

and the Titans have with Tannehill, you're going to be in this purgatory, right? It's going to be very difficult for you to strike lightning in a bottle to win a Super Bowl with a quarterback that can't even hold a candle to Pat Mahomes or Aaron Rodgers or Russell Wilson or Drew Brees in his prime or Tom Brady. Like these guys are better. The best quarterbacks in the NFL win. The best quarterbacks in the NFL win, and they consistently win deep in the postseason. I always say this too.

Your goal in the NFL is not to win a Super Bowl. It is to consistently compete for Super Bowls. And you can't do that trying to strike lightning in a bottle, signing Peyton Manning, and then you get in and say, okay, cool. There's going to be a lot of times where that doesn't work out and you're constantly trying to find this next quarterback. Look at Denver. Denver's still in this quarterback purgatory trying to find this next guy. Wrongly paying Teddy Bridgewater.

Wrongly putting Simeon in the position they did. Tebow, all that stuff. It is the most difficult question in the NFL, and I think there could be more CBA plays and contract plays to make it less of a competitive advantage to just keep dumping your quarterback until you find a guy that's worth it, and then in the meantime paying a guy on a rookie contract. Folks, it's that time again where you're doing your online shopping for the holidays, and look, if you want free shipping, I can help you out with that.

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consultation this is an attorney advertisement from kemet sanford and kramer your minnesota work comp lawyer.com yeah i think that uh kansas city is actually a great example of why this i mean just has always been this way but matters so much is I think they're terrible. It's just like a bad team. They don't have a good defense. The offensive line was patchwork together, not impressed. They have one wide receiver and like a possession tight end. And yet here they are. I think I picked them today against all the other AFC teams because of one guy. And how about this? Like Peyton Manning, he went through multiple teams, complete overturns of rosters, multiple coaches.

There was only one season after his rookie year where they lost less than 10 or one fewer than 10 games. It's just mind blowing how one player can have that much of an effect. And if you wanted to even that out a little, I don't know that the NFL does does but if you wanted to to make it easier count it for less than the cap so teams with cousins their car whatever can stack up even more but uh the vikings made their choice with the cap how it is to give him the contract that they did and now they're five and six austin um and so here we are again thinking about well if they don't make a deep playoff run who wants to keep doing this? But at the same time, what people keep tweeting me is this quarterback class coming up is bad.

Austin, I have a two, kind of a two part question. So take this however, wherever you want to go. Number one is, should this have been factored into their decision to not draft Mac Jones, that the next class, if things didn't work out, was not going to be that good? Or is that too far out to know? And how bad is it really? Like, is it really atrocious or is it kind of being like overplayed? So one, I would say, yes, that should have factored into their decision. I think if me on the street could see that the quarterback class the next year wasn't going to be as good as last year's, them with the resources that they have should be able to have the foresight like, hey, this class isn't going to be as good as last year's them with the resources that they have should be able to have the foresight like hey this class isn't going to be as good as this year's maybe

we should take a mac jones or you know maybe make a move for justin fields or whatever and then two the quarterback class isn't good but it's being drastically shat on for lack of a better word because this last year's quarterback class was insane i mean this last year's quarterback class three you know back to back to back mac jones justin fields all capable starters that are Last year's quarterback class was insane. I mean, this last year's quarterback class, back-to-back-to-back, Matt Jones, Justin Fields, all capable starters that are starting in year one. This year, there isn't a consensus QB1, which automatically muddies the class a little bit. And there aren't any guys where you feel super confident

that they hit year one with the ground just completely running. Any picket of Pittsburgh has played the best football of any quarterback this year. He's been a five-year starter at Pittsburgh. He started to get nervous about how much experience he's had, and he's 22, 23 years old playing at Pittsburgh. He'll probably get an invite to the Senior Bowl at East West Shrine and blow it up, similar to what Mac Jones did.

But he's a big quarterback that isn't super mobile but has a big arm. Are you going to invest in Kenny Pickett, who maybe isn't as toolsy as Malik Willis or some of these other quarterbacks? It's hard to say, right? I think in that 8 to 16 range is where I'm starting to think yes. If you are a quarterback team, needy team. There is a lot of blue-chip defensive talent in this class, and at premium positions.

If the top of the class was interior offensive linemen and linebackers, I would be taking quarterbacks number one overall. But the top of the class is pass rushers. And the second highest paid position in the NFL are pass rushers. And then the second best part of the class is offensive tackles. And that's the third highest paid position at the quarterback. So there's going to be a lot of premium positions at the top of this draft class that teams will flock to before quarterback. But if you take winnings and receivers over your favorite quarterback in this class or even one of the corners, maybe outside of Derek Stingley, I think you're being too cute with the selection. If you're a quarterback-needy team, Minnesota comes to mind, potentially Carolina, Denver, Washington if Heineke doesn't pan out. And you're picking in that range where there is a quarterback available,

like a Malik Willis, Matt Corral, Teddy Pickett. Desmond Ritter is not a day one guy for me, but maybe on day two. You have to. You have to swing the bat in that position. And the issue, the biggest issue I have, right, with teams like the Eagles with Jalen Hurts or even Carolina Panthers with Sam Darnold, they invested in the secondround pick in him. Why not try him more?

The fifth-year extension is already done. Is it drafting a quarterback in the first round, if it's not a top-five, top-eight pick, is not giving up on the quarterback that you have, right? Like you can have Jalen Hurts and Malik Willis and compete, and the best one plays, the best quarterback plays. And that will only benefit your program. And if Hurts doesn't win, he has trade value. And if Willis doesn't win, he has trade value. We just saw an offseason

where Carson Wentz and Sam Darnold were traded for second round picks. Carson Wentz might be a first round pick and no two quarterbacks played worse football in 2021 or 2020. You're telling me that if you drafted Malik Willis in the top 15 or a corral or a picket and they competed and didn't win out the job, they wouldn't have at least second round or even back into first round value. You're crazy. But one time John Madden said, if you have two quarterbacks, you have none. So I swear that teams have made their decision based on that quote forever.

Probably even though Bill Walsh didn't really feel that way with Montana and Steve young, but I don't know. Now when we look at the Mac Jones thing, because you're talking about Kenny Pickett, like not necessarily being mobile or that athletic or, you know, those types of things. Is Mac Jones like a reminder that, hey, processing and accuracy are still our only God? I mean, it's really like there was some point where,

and I probably fell into this trap a little bit myself, where you went like, I don't know, the guy doesn't have a very impressive body. And even though I advocated for the same reason you just laid out, the Vikings drafting Mac Jones, I only did so because it was with their draft pick. Like you don't even have to trade up or mortgage your franchise or anything. And if he works out, it's gold for you.

But I feel like everybody watched you know mahomes run around be athletic and then he's you know he's great athletic quarterbacks that said ah that's it we have to have that that's the only thing that will work and mac jones is kind of reminding everyone at you know actually if we could stack up the roster through free agency have really good coaching and then have a dude that executes the offense, that's still going to win in the NFL. I think what happened, honestly, because I don't think we needed a reminder, the Bengals drafted Joe Burrow number one overall. Joe Burrow was very similar to Mac Jones in accurate, not a big arm, quick processor, played a ton of really good

football in the SEC and won a championship. Like they were very similar in those regards. The reason I think Mac Jones was pushed down a bit is because the what if, or what if Fields turns out to what Fields could be, or what if Trevor, I mean, Trevor Lawrence was better than Mac Jones. He was better in a lot of ways. He's more mobile and all that stuff. Or what if Zach Wilson is this next Aaron Rodgers and is this next big on guy. And like, you could say confidently,

Mac Jones played better football than Zach Wilson did in college. Yeah. Against better competition. You can say that it was close with Fields, right? And Fields was in a good conference and all that stuff. But you pushed him down because you don't, there is no what if with Matt Jones. It's like, okay, if this hits, it's going to hit.

And it has, obviously it has. And he's been put in such a great situation to succeed. That offensive line is top two in pressure rate allowed the receiving core has dropped nine passes this year that's the second lowest mark of any team in the NFL that's due for regression the offense is catered to his strengths it's catered around him I do think that if two so I always think about Tuatunga-Vailoa was putting that offense he'd be a top three graded passer. I mean, he would be phenomenal in that offense. So much of this is situation, right? And I think Justin Fields will improve as Chicago starts to figure out what their sideline is going to look like. Trevor Lawrence will improve as Jacksonville starts to figure out what their sideline will look

like. Zach Wilson's probably been the scariest. I think Zach Wilson's been a little bit nerve-wracking and he's completely inaccurate compared to what he was last year, bailing out of clean pockets. It's been disgusting what you've seen from Zach Wilson this year. But Mac Jones has been phenomenal, and I think he's proved a lot of people wrong in that you don't always need to chase this what-if or this ceiling or these tools or this body. You can, if you cater an offense around Mac Jones and you spend the most of any team in free agency and you build a top three offensive line you can win with a mac jones on a rookie contract yeah that's and that's the whole thing right there is it's the rookie contract i don't know

what will happen with mac jones when he doesn't have that or if they have a bunch of catastrophic injuries like is he going to put a franchise on his back the way that Mahomes has had to do this year like probably not but how but how many guys can almost nobody so get get yourself your my thing with the Vikings was your current quarterback already can't so what would be the situation where you could have a quarterback who's similar but you could put all those things around him that you want to put around him Mac Jones but I totally get why people thought the Vikings should trade up for Justin Fields. He landed in about the worst situation you could land in. But tell me this, if you had to predict right now, 2025, how would those five quarterbacks rank, you think, in 2025, if you're trying to project forward. Trevor Lawrence, one. I would put – I still have faith in Justin Fields being a really,

really good football player. I'd put him two. Mac Jones, three. Why am I blanking on the fourth? I know – Zach Wilson. And who's the fifth? Did you forget Trey Lance? Trey Lance.

Okay, I would put Trey Lance last because I don't know what he is right now. I'd put Matt Jones third, Zach Wilson fourth, and maybe Trey Lance fifth. But Zach Wilson and Trey Lance, you don't really know what those guys are going to be. A complete opposite to what Zach Wilson was, and Trey Lance hasn't played a ton of football this year. But Trevor Lawrence is going to be phenomenal. He just needs a better situation. I think Justin Fields has not shown anything what, like, Zach Wilson has shown in just being a complete opposite player.

And then Matt Jones has obviously been great. But what the new the Patriots did right of spending a ton of frenzy and building around him is so much easier said than done we've seen teams go again and again trying to spend big and spend the wrong ways right like and you can get guys hurt in these different things it's I would not say it's equally as hard but it's pretty close to finding a top three quarterback in the NFL, finding a Rodgers, a Mahomes, an Allen, or a Jackson, or whatever, and then spending enough money in free agency with a quarterback that plays to the strength of his supporting cast and supporting him with the right supporting cast, keeping coaches, offensive line, all that stuff.

This is a Belichick point that I'm not sure I've made before, but I've maybe had it pop into my skull before is that he might be a better GM than he is a coach. He's just so clever at being able to pick these things out and make the right like pragmatic decisions when it comes to how to spend the money, who to spend the money on, when to let people go, when to take a risk on a player, when to draft quarterback, when they fall right in your lap. And he's just been so good at this that I see people complaining, oh, he didn't go for this fourth down and he should have been like, this is not the way we should judge people. I mean, I think he should go for it on fourth down, but it's like not the way we should do it. And sometimes it feels like that's the way we do it. So anyway, I think they made the exact decision

that the Vikings should have made, but they decided, no, our jobs are on the line. Let's draft a left tackle who might be good, but not going to change your franchise necessarily like the other guy. I want your opinion before we wrap up here. Always great stuff, man. I love getting together with you of just the NFC race in general. I mean, it's what a goofy thing. This has been every team you get convinced on. You're like, Oh, I know they're great. And then, you know, they'll fall off the map. And then you have the Rams slipping down.

You have other teams that are kind of like holding steady, like the Cardinals. And then you just have this garbage fire at the bottom with all these teams fighting for one spot that probably shouldn't exist. It is been the paradise NFLous NFL season, right? And I think it's why it's the best product in sports. I mean, it is legitimately the best product in sports. And college is trying to compete right now with the coaching carousel

and stuff like that. I think that has been fun. I think the transfer portal stuff, the NIL stuff in college, is going to make it so much better for people to enjoy that sport. But for the NFL, it's been insane. For the NFC, I am all in on Tampa Bay still. I am all in on Tampa Bay. I won't fade Tampa Bay. Tom Brady is playing elite football. That defense is the best run defense in the NFL. Top three need to play loud. Don't fade Tampa Bay. Los Angeles, I'm a bit concerned with. Their offense has not looked good lately. Matt Stafford has looked like the Detroit

Lions version of Matt Stafford. That is a concern. Arizona, when healthy, in my opinion, is the number two team. But they're so struggling to be healthy right now. Like Tyler is struggling. DeAndre Hopkins is struggling. If they can't get healthy, that's what matters. And I think with both the AFC and NFC, the biggest things right now is health. You have the Titans fading because they're unhealthy as hell.

No Julio Jones, no A.J. Brown, no Derrick Henry. You have have the Titans fading because they're unhealthy as hell. No Julio Jones, no A.J. Brown, no Derek Henry. You have the Browns fading because they're unhealthy. Baker Mayfield's playing hurt. Nick Chubb has been playing hurt. Cream Hunt's been in and out of the lineup. They didn't have Rashard Higgins due to injury. Anthony Schwartz due to injury. They're hurt.

Now you've got Jack Conklin, the right tackle, who's out for the season. Then you go to the NFC, and it's like the Cowboys, right? No Mark Cooper, no CeeDee Lamb, Tyron Smith battling it. If you're not healthy this late in the season, you're going to lose a ton of games because your team is built around these guys, right? A lot of teams, when you talk to them, it's just about getting to the games. So much less of a focus on getting these guys practicing. So practices are becoming lighter and you're not getting these guys the reps that they need that are backups that are coming in to actually compete.

The healthiest teams at the top will ultimately prevail. And I think that's why look at the Patriots, man. They have been healthy down the stretch. You look at Tampa Bay, they've found ways to stay healthy. I think those teams are the ones I'm flocking to right now. TB12 method caught on. And so obviously, well, I appreciate all of your time, Austin. You guys do a great podcast that I listen to all the time.

And now during the regular season and not just draft season, the tailgate podcast with you and Mike Renner. So thanks for your time, man. Always great to get together with you and make sure you're, you know, perusing pff.com since you're commanding all content. Now there you go. Thanks a lot, Austin. Thank you.