Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Vikings beat the Packers but lose Kirk Cousins to Achilles injury

Episode Date: October 29, 2023

Matthew Coller and Dane Mizutani of the Pioneer Press react to Kirk Cousins suffering a likely season-ending injury in the win over the Packers Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome inside Lambeau Field. Matthew Collar along with Dane Mizutani, the Pioneer Press here just outside the press box. And we have just returned from the Minnesota Vikings locker room and talking with Kevin O'Connell, who confirmed that it is indeed an Achilles injury for Kirk Cousins. And Dane, I got to say, this is one of the stranger feelings that I've ever had coming out of a game because they were so dominant and they won this game running away, which they have not done in a while. And I was all prepared to talk about what an excellent win this was, how the playoffs are now in sight, how Kirk Cousins has played some of the best football that I've ever seen him play.

And Jordan Addison emerging as a star. The offensive line, another great day. Weird special teams, great defensive performance. Brian Flores doing it again. Jordan Love probably not being the future for the Packers. That was what we were going to talk about. And then the injury tent came up and Kirk Cousins went in and then the cart came out and he left. And at that moment, we're not sure like what's

going on with Kirk cousins. And as soon as we saw the replay, we knew we saw it with Aaron Rodgers. We saw it with Kevin Durant and it was the same exact injury and Achilles that was confirmed again by Kevin O'Connell heartbreak in the locker room, emotional players, emotional Kevin O'Connell Jaron Hall steps in in gets strip sacked complete to pass on third down but what they do next the quarterback is now up in the air completely for this franchise in the short and the long term so how do you want to react to this dane i mean this this is this is quite the gut punch for the entire organization that believed that they had now reached a point where they were going to compete for the playoffs.

And I would not have argued otherwise after this very impressive win. And now it's extremely hard to see them making something of the 2023 season. Yeah, I think the word is devastating. And I don't think that's too much hyperbole. I think it's a devastating blow for the Vikings. Like you mentioned, this game was supposed to be us sitting here right out to the press box in Lambeau Field, talking about all the things that the Vikings did well, perhaps piling on to all the things that the Packers didn't do so well. But in that moment, when Kirk Cousins drops back

to pass, kind of pulls up lame hops off the field and like you said goes to the injury tent gets carted off the field it all just like you take the air out of the balloon really fully the win in prime time last week this was their chance to prove that was not a fluke. That was not an aberration. And by all accounts, they did. They did for 60 minutes. They were the much better team. They dominated certain areas. Kirk Cousins parlayed a great performance last week

into another great performance this week. He mentioned the offensive line. So everything that the Vikings did today was proof that, yes, this is a team to be taken seriously, which is why the injury is so devastating. I don't know how you move forward. And I know Kevin O'Connell will try and rally the troops and get them all to pull on the same rope and say this season is not lost. I know the players will say that outwardly to our faces, but I think if you just read between the lines, a lot of the emotions, just the faces of the guys in the locker room, they know the season's pretty much over. And it's really, really hard to kind of stomach that just with one play in one second, your season can go from maybe dark horse contender in the NFC to just a team that really

has no direction. And you think about all the hits that this man has taken over the years and all the times that he fought through pain and we saw it in the Netflix documentary, but we always had a pretty good idea that with the offensive lines that he had, he was doing a lot off the field with his body to get back to as close as he could to 100% to play. And there's probably been downturns in Cousins' play throughout his career that have been injury related that he's never going to come out and say, hey guys, I was actually really banged up. And he is not on the injury report very often because he's always a full go in practice and has done everything he ever could to be on the field. And it's one of

the things that I deeply respect about Kirk Cousins is how much he was willing to go through to be on the field. Not everybody is like that. Not everybody has that level of toughness that he's continued to fight through. And I also thought this year he showed another level of toughness through an 0-3 start and leadership to bring them back in these last two games where these are the types of games where this team is folded throughout the years where it's like okay all you need is that one big win at Lambeau and then go get it and then they don't and somebody said this week like the most Vikings thing would be to beat San Francisco and then lose to Green Bay and he was not going to let that In fact, he could have had an even better stat line

if his head coach had gone for a couple of fourth downs. I think the way they were moving the ball, he was throwing on time. He was playing confidently. He's dropping dimes to Jordan Addison left and right, TJ Hawkinson back in the mix, the offensive line putting on just a show throughout the game. And then he gets hurt on a play where nothing happens.

And it's like a sick irony to this team is I was, I was being convinced throughout this game. I was thinking to myself that I'm going to write after this game, this is a playoff caliber team who is ready to get on a big run and even make some noise in the NFC because the things they were doing are sustainable blocking for you know cousins and then we see Jordan Addison take full advantage of this opportunity with Justin Jefferson out to become a star and then it feels like it all goes up in flames in one moment and look if you had a case Keenum as your backup quarterback you know in 2017 we knew that case Keenum could play in the NFL

we knew that he was a good player. It was surprising that he played as well as he did throughout the year. But we knew that he had started before and he'd put up numbers before and had some wins in the league. They are now left with an injured Nick Mullins, who we don't know when he's coming back. Sean Mannion is here. Jaron Hall is here. And they are also left with a trade deadline that is, oh, yeah, in two days. So they have to make a decision fast.

Do they want to try to trade for someone else's backup quarterback? But how do they even do that? So let's not get down that road just yet, though, because my head is swimming a little bit. So much to the point that I walked by the press box or by the locker room door on the way down. I let everybody right by the door because I've just, you know, kind of shook by what has happened here in Green Bay. But just going back to your reaction to the locker room and what Kevin O'Connell said in his post-game press conference. Yeah, listening to them talk, just Kevin O'Connell especially,

you could tell he, I wouldn't go as far as say Kevin O'Connell was fighting tears, but you could just tell by hearing him that he was having a really hard time putting on a happy face to us. Started off his press conference, almost smiled when he said like, good win for our team, because I think he knew deep down, like, this isn't what you guys want to hear about. You don't want to hear about how well we played today. You want to hear about Kirk. And then to hear him say, we fear it's an Achilles injury, kind of confirming everything that you think when you see that video, when you see him plant, when you see it kind of shoot up the calf. And none of us are doctors, and we're not claiming to be,

but we've seen this enough to know, like, you know, that looks like it's probably an Achilles to hear Kevin O'Connell say it just kind of a sobering moment. And, you know, you can go around the locker room, Garrett Bradbury. I think he had a good quote saying, you know, when asked how weird it was to not have Kirk cousins on the field in the fourth quarter, he said, anytime since I've been here that the Vikings have been on the field, Kirk cousins has been on the field, which is a perfect way to sum it up.

It's a guy who, like you said, not on the injury report a lot, just a guy who fights his way through pain and has just an intense pain tolerance. I think Kevin O'Connell mentioned that, too. This is going to have to be an injury that he literally can't come back from. It has nothing to do with pain tolerance because if he can play through the pain, he's going to. You just hear all these things from these guys. Brian O'Neill nearly brought to tears when asked what Kirk's leadership has meant to this team. And I think that was probably the most poignant moment for me in the locker room is hearing Brian O'Neill kind of try and answer what the leadership of Kirk Cousins meant and then just having to stop and basically shoo us away and say like I can't do it I think his final words were I respect him

I respect him a lot and then he turned away um because I think he knows as well as all of us know like that's it it's over and when you think about how much and I know he's alive, so like, you know, let's all keep this in mind, but it is, it is crushing for everybody, especially when the feeling was about to be, we're going to prove everybody wrong. We're going to be the outlier. We're going to go from Owen three to the playoffs. Like that's that, that would have been the vibe. And then to have that taken away from you, but it also matters so much how much cousins has been through with all of these players. I mean,

the offensive lineman, the bond between the offensive lineman, the center and Kirk cousins. I mean, these guys have been blocking for him for a really long time. Dara saw his whole career, O'Neill's whole career, Bradbury's whole career,

uh, while Cleveland and Ingram too. I mean, all those guys, KJ Osborne, Jordan Addison. I saw when I walked in the locker room, Jordan Addison just had his head in his hands. Yeah. I mean, all those guys, KJ Osborne, Jordan Addison. I saw when I walked in the locker room, Jordan Addison just had his head in his hands. And, uh, you know, after a win,

uh, you'll never see another locker room like that. After a win, everybody just sitting at their lockers kind of dazed that nobody was celebrating. We were standing right outside the locker room and couldn't hear a thing. I mean, it was even when we walked in, there was some music playing, but nobody talking. And as soon as they turned the music down, you could hear anybody and what they were saying. And I agree with you that Brian O'Neill, who is as tough as they get, I mean, look at the way he's come back from an Achilles injury himself. To be emotional when talking about cousins, I think, shows you how much they have bonded over the years as a group. And also you're not going to find too many other people who have the capacity in the,

in the leadership in terms of getting the team lined up, getting the plays in, like you just have such a Supreme confidence playing with him that he has a total mastery of this offense. And it was, I mean, there hasn't been too many times even since o'connell's got here where i felt like it was just clicking and clicking and clicking because o'connell asks a lot from him and he said that after the game it's one of the reasons they put the wristband on him i think is because they ask so much from him it was to try to like get him to have to remember less and he so he could just play more free and he was doing it i mean he was really rolling and to have that taken away from the locker room everybody knows the deal and you're

right people try to say well the defense has to step up now and so forth if you had a gus farat from back in the day if you had a backup quarterback who's done it before but you're asking now jaron hall or nick mollins or whatever do it. I think that that's a deeper part of this. Not only do they feel horrible for Kirk cousins in the way that he was playing, but also they're aware that it's not really a next man up here because the next men up have either lost pretty much all the games they started like Nick Mullins or have never played at all.

Like Jaron Hall. Yeah. And I think that's like, when you look at the backup quarterback room the vikings have it's in some ways because kirk's just durability i don't want to say it's been taken for granted but like almost like you almost just want to get a guy as kirk cousins backup quarterback that he can bounce ideas off of and he feels really good talking to it's why kirk cousins and sean manion worked so well and kirk of. And he feels really good talking to it's why Kirk Cousins and Sean Manion

worked so well. And Kirk Cousins and Kellen Mon did not. It's because Kirk as a quarterback wants his backup quarterback to be a good study partner who can, you know, talk shop with them. And that's what the Vikings have in Nick Mullins. Those two get along tremendously well,

but what the Vikings do not have any backup quarterback. And I know we're going to get into Jaron Hall. So I, I don't want to say this kid can't play, but what we've seen so far, he's going to be asked to do way more than he's ever been asked to do in his football life. And it's fair to wonder if he can handle all of that right now as a rookie.

This is a guy who was struggling to kind of call plays and training camp. And, and now he's going to be kind of thrust into you know the spotlight taking over for kirk cousins um you that's yeah you look at this backup quarterback and you look at who's coming up the shoot um i think kevin o'connell tried to almost push like hey nick mullins is coming back don't don't worry like it might not be jaron hall all this time we might have nick mullins too but you just this is no disrespect to either nick mullins or jaron hall but you just can't feel good about those guys coming in and the guy that is leaving the team um kirk cousins has been a polarizing figure in minnesota since he got here and i think that's what comes with the contract that's what comes with not having the immediate success that people thought was coming in the wake of the Case Keenum year.

But I think what he's proven to all of us over the last two, two and a half years, even to his biggest haters, is that he's a really good quarterback in the league. Just as far as being a person who can play the position there aren't many guys in the league better than him um i know we get into kind of the nitty-gritty with the contract what what it means how you build a team but in a vacuum kirk cousins is almost as good as it gets at the position outside of the the top of the top the patrick mahomes is you know josh allen's um whatever. So to lose a guy like

that, you're not just losing a leader, a revered guy in the locker room, you're losing one of the better quarterbacks in the league too. And now you're a beat, you're asking a guy who hasn't had much success as a fill-in guy in Nick Mullins and a guy who has not played at all really in Jaron Hall to kind of step up and fill the void. It's just really tough to see how anything positive is coming down the chute for the Vikings at this point. It really is, and that is not an indictment on Jaron Hall so much. He was never meant to even be the backup quarterback.

It was supposed to be Nick Mullins, who is a proven backup in the league, but there's tiers to backups. There's the Case Keen keenum gus for a tier of guys who you could see guiding a ship that's going well and then below that is you know someone like nick mullins who if they have to play too many games like they if they had to play three or four okay like if this suddenly turned around and was like not that bad of an injury which is not going to happen but if it did then you then you'd say, all right, well, maybe they can survive this with some of the opponents that they're coming up

by just putting in Nick Mullins, but that's not going to be the case. And so they should just let Jaron Hall kind of sink or swim and see what they have there. And it's a great setup. It's a good line. It's a good coach. It's a good tight end who made a great play to put the game on ice there. But when you're talking about having to beat NFL teams that are in the middle of the league like you are, teams like Atlanta, teams like New Orleans.

I mean, New Orleans, at last check, had one of the best passing defenses in the league. That's going to be a tough one. You have to beat Russell Wilson. Even a broken version of him is still a guy who can put up some points and move the ball. So suddenly you go from Kirk is the better quarterback in almost every game the rest of the way. You can debate Kirk versus Jared Goff. But the whole rest of the way, they only play one quarterback who is decidedly better, and that's Joe Burrow. And he's been banged up a little bit this year this year is I think going to be defined by all of the injuries that quarterbacks have faced throughout

the entire NFL but the the ironic thing is just that you know we've talked so much about the Kirk coaster and the ups and downs of Kirk Cousins throughout his time here but what we just were witnessing I was sitting here thinking I don't know if I've seen him play better. I mean, because it was not just like in 2019, he played really well, but they were trying to kind of limit him, give the ball to Delvin cook, run play actions and try to hit some deep shots. But what Kevin O'Connell did with Kirk cousins is he said, I'm leaning in. This is a passing football team. I mean, he, he didn't even know what they did running wise. He was like, Oh, maybe we could have run the ball a little better. It was like, actually, Kevin, your running game was horrendous

today, but it doesn't matter because you've leaned into Kirk Cousins so much. They've put so much on his plate. They've made it so complicated for him. And yet he was distributing the football all over the place. It was looking, and I'm not making this comparison, but it was looking like Drew Brees-ish in the way that he was moving the ball today and last week against San Francisco to his playmakers. And then it's just taken away in a second. And I feel like Cousins was kind of having one of those weird things

that happens with quarterbacks sometimes where the older they get, the better they get. And we saw a better version of him last year and a more comfortable version. And the bond also between him and O'Connell, that was not the case under Mike Zimmer. And it felt like this growth was actually real with Cousins, even though I'm always the one to kind of say, like, I don't know, is he really different? But there have been a lot of things that have looked different with him. And the supporting cast is as good as it gets in the entire NFL. And to have it taken, taken away means a lot of this could end up very well going to waste. And you end up with, you know, six or seven wins or something, which I know some of you are going to celebrate because of the draft status

and all that. But I'll tell you like, not like this though. I mean, this is, this is not how anybody wanted that to happen. That is a whole separate discussion about moving on and drafting a quarterback and everything else. Not this is not the way you want it to happen. The way that they would have wanted this season to go and would have,

I'm sure gotten all of you on board eventually was turn this around from Owen three and make the playoffs. And instead, now we're here talking about where are they going to end up being through the rest of the year with this. Yeah, you have to have some nuance when you talk about this, right? It's like, I think me and you really align on the fact that every time Kirk has played well in the past,

we've wanted him to do it again and do it again and pretty consistently he hasn't that's why you've called it the kirk coaster but the nuance exists in like wanting them to maybe trade kirk cousins or move on from kirk cousins at the end of this year is wholly different than celebrating and there's going to be some people who i'm sure are saying well now, now we get to tank and rebuild. And it's like, it's okay to just be a regular person and look at this guy and say, like,

he just suffered a, a devastating injury, like late in his career, he's going to be 36. And now he has to rehab an Achilles probably like, so when you look at just the big picture, if you get, if,

if the people who are just been banging the drum, move on from Cousins, move on from Cousins, if they get that, like, I guess I'm happy for you. But like, it's not the way it was intended to happen. Like, if you were going to move on from Kirk Cousins, I think Kweisi Adolfo Mensah gave himself this out by not extending him last March by saying, we're going to let this contract run out. You were going to get that anyway. I think they were going to move on from him, barring, you know, an incredible run and wins in the playoffs and an extension. I think you were going to get this natural progression of moving on to the

next guy. But I just know that there's going to be just like a section of the fan base that is kind of celebrating this horrible injury. And it kind of rubs me the wrong way. I've been as big of a Kirk Cousins critic as there is out there over the course of his tenure in Minnesota. But to your point earlier, it really did feel like maybe this was a turning of the corner. It felt like the game against San Francisco at home in primetime was a turning of the corner for the entire team. And it kind of felt like it is like a microcosm of Kirk Cousins, perhaps turning the corner. And then he goes out and does what he

does today. I just think we deserved better to see it, to see it through, um, to either be right or wrong, um, to continue to ride that Kirk coaster. Um, but now it just kind of feels like it's all been taken away. So, yeah, you just kind of leave this game kind of shaking your head, feeling kind of shook at kind of the repercussions of everything that just happened. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Folks, if you're struggling with the holiday blues and you're having some trouble getting excited in the same way that other people in your life do about holiday get togethers and all of that just sounds stressful to you then maybe it might be helpful to add something new in your life to help deal with those feelings that's where therapy could be a bright spot for you it can help give you the tools to manage stress and help you

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rebuild. And when they started 0-3, I talk about conflicted. I was like, well, 0-3 might be good for you. If you end up trading Kirk Cousins and so forth, maybe that would be good for you, is to lose all those games. But I also thought, well, you said you were going to be competitive, and it's not good if you're not. And after coming back from that, and even playing a strong game against Kansas City that they had chances to win, a strong game against Los Angeles that they had chances to win a strong game against Los Angeles, that they had chances to win. I was becoming much more sold on the idea of you can't waste a year of everybody's lives. When you have Christian Derrissaw, Justin Jefferson coming back just, you know, to trade Kirk cousins or something like

that. Like you have to, even we were talking about potentially buying, like calling Washington and seeing if Montez sweat is available or seeing if chase young is available and adding to this football team. Because what we've seen from Brian Flores is this man knows how to coach a freaking defense. I mean, Jordan love, okay. He struggles and he missed some open receivers today and he threw a pretty gnarly interception that, you know, they had pretty much known that he was going to throw

based on what Josh Metellus told us after the game. They knew at a certain look he was going to throw that pass, and he just jumped in front of it. So, you know, okay, competition matters here, but even against San Francisco, and they've played extremely well against Chicago and Carolina, bad teams as a defense and so all of a sudden there's this momentum of this defense with Flores and Daniil Hunter grabs another sack

today and DJ Wanham gets another sack today and maybe eventually you're talking about Davenport coming back and all of a sudden I'm getting convinced that it's not just like a bad defense that played a couple of teams that all of a sudden when you hold the panthers down when you hold the what 13 points and then was it how many was it against chicago 12 or something and then 10 like this is what you should do you could say they're bad offenses but they've held down these bad offenses it's been so impressive to see and if we were talking about because i was thinking about today, like this defense, they might end up cracking the top 10 or like being just outside of that

top 10 with the quarterbacks that they have coming up. And that's where it looks like that path was going to be. So there, and then you're not talking as much about the future. We can think about that later, but then it becomes a week to week or how are they going to game plan against this team and you know, how are they going to game plan against this team? And you know how they're going to match up. And this is a big game. And there's a lot of excitement to that. And there's just ripped away.

And I think that's how a lot of Vikings fans. Yeah, there's there's some sickos who are happy that this has happened or whatever. But like when you talk about like the fans and how they were feeling about this, buying into this team and having that excitement ripped away from them it's not something Vikings fans have never seen before but uh it is sort of a new chapter in a team that was just starting to convince you they were going somewhere with this season and then having that taken away so let's let's move on to the next phase of the conversation which is what do they do with the quarterback position? I think at least in the short term,

and I guess the short term is the next two days, because you have to decide right now. You can't kick the can down the road and say, let's decide later if you want to trade for a quarterback, because there's two days to do it. The trade deadline is Tuesday. So I guess in the short term, they need to decide, all right, is there a backup quarterback out there that we want to go get?

Kyler Murray, that's not going to happen. I don't think they can physically make it work with the cap. I also just don't see them making like a huge swing move like that. It sounds cool if this was Madden, I would hop on and go try and trade with the Cardinals and add whatever picks and salaries that it took to get it done and eventually force a trade, but the computer and make Kyler Murray, the quarterback of the Vikings, but that's not what's going to happen. So then you have to kind of parse through which backup quarterbacks exist that potentially could come in and run this offense.

What I think is going to end up happening is that Jaron Hall is going to be the starting quarterback next weekend in Atlanta. And you're just going to try and see what you got in them. I don't think the expect, Kevin O'Connell says the expectation will not change. Like we are going to expect to win every game. We're going to expect to compete, you know, moving forward for a playoff positioning and all of that. But I think deep down, like you just want to see if you have anything in Jaron Hall. Like it's easy to say, all right, well, maybe

they have Brock Purdy. We don't know that they don't. I just know what we've seen out of Jaron Hall in training camp, in the preseason. He's coming from a spread offense at BYU where he never even had to call plays in the huddle to calling plays in the huddle with perhaps the, you know, a very, very good play caller but someone whose language and verbiage and playbook is really complex so there's a growth that's going to be needed and i think he's taken steps in that direction since being drafted since struggling to kind of comprehend everything in training camp to getting in the game today everyone was high praise of jaron hall and the way he conducted himself in the fourth quarter and in some ways helped the Vikings hold on for that win and there was one play that he

made a throw to TJ Hawkinson that I think helped them eventually run out the clock but all of this is to say I think Jaron Hall is going to be the option or the decision next week against Atlanta and I think Jaron Hall should be the decision moving forward as well. I think when Nick Mullins is healthy, you should still go to Jaron Hall and you should see what you have in Jaron Hall. Because we've seen what we have in Nick Mullins. Nick Mullins is a okay backup in the league. He's a backup, like you said earlier, who if he has to play four games, you think he could maybe win two of them. And I think that's like a tier of a backup quarterback who could maybe win 50% of the games in the short term if they have to. I think that's Nick Mullins. There's at least some

mystery with Jaron Hall. And I think you at least want to find out the only way. And we were talking about this as we were walking back upstairs that you would have to make that switch. If you decide Jaron Hall is the guy moving forward. The only way you switch back to Nick Mullins is if Jaron Hall can't play the position at all. And we don't know that he can't yet. So I think you deserve or he deserves this opportunity unless you're going to go trade for someone. I think Jaron Hall has to be the quarterback moving forward. Yeah, I mean, because if Hall can't operate the offense at a competent level, which we're going to find out next week, then you have to go to somebody else. Because one, again, you can't waste everybody's time here.

Like you want Jordan Addison to get the football and make plays because my gosh, again, think about all the things we would have been talking about. Like Jordan Addison is a freaking star right now. Yes. been talking about like jordan addison is a freaking star right now yes and just like the last starting in the kansas city game just somebody pushed the button and now he is a star in the league just like that so you know i don't know if jefferson's coming back or not i would i would assume that jefferson still comes back regardless of the situation because that's the type of player he is but if hall struggles to the point where he can't get those guys to football, then you have to make a change to Nick Mullins. And I know that you talk about tanking or whatever, but not when you have these types

of players, you know, you want to be able to continue to evaluate, continue for guys to improve and to run their offense and give themselves a chance to win each week, which Nick Mullins we know can do based on what he did in san francisco and the other times we've seen him play uh he got in a little bit last year in green bay made a couple throws the same with uh chicago i think he played the second half of that game last year and looked like a competent quarterback and these are some teams that you could potentially beat still i mean atlanta looks like they might be playing their backup quarterback, except for he's a guy who's won a lot more in the league in Taylor Heineke. But still, I mean,

that's not all that impressive, you know, that they're going to play against him. But, you know, going on the road even to Atlanta is a big challenge. So I think we'll know by next week if Jaron Hall is up for this. I just think that asking him to be up for this is a lot because he was supposed to come in have a year to develop I mean he carries himself extremely well and I think he understands football and and understands how to line people up and Kevin O'Connell said the other guys on offense were impressed with how he came in got everybody set up like he's clearly like mature and capable of handling some things but he also like got strip sacked right away you know so it's like i don't know what to really expect

there there's another option other than just a backup of which there are a dozen names you could try to go for there's another option of trying to trade for someone who might be a future option knowing that kirk cousins might not be back uh by the i mean look how long some of those achilles injuries take i know aaron rogers is trying to tell everyone he's going to come back but this one's eight weeks into the season and a lot of times it takes an entire year there's no even guarantee uh when he could be back if he would be back look at i mean O'Neill was not back until the, basically the start of the season when he had his Achilles injury. These take a long time depending.

And his was not even that severe. Partial. His was only a partial. And it took him from the playoffs all the way until that was like, it's like eight months basically with a partial tear. Um, this one looks like it might be worse based on, you know,

the video, the, the only guy who would be in a position to trade for that he could be a part of the future would be mac jones does something like that interest you at all i mean i turned my head like this for anyone who's watching anyone who's listening it made me turn my head to the side because yeah the name interests me and i think it's a cluster of a situation in new england and i think at times mac jones has looked okay i think with a young advanced play caller like kevin o'connell like he could probably get the most out of mac jones um so yeah if it's not going to cost me an arm and a leg, I, I, that could interest me. Sure. Um, if it's going to cost me my first round pick next

year, like, no, I won't do that. Um, I would much rather just try and find the next Mac Jones who will be on his rookie contract much longer than the actual Mac Jones. oh yeah if you can get him for a reasonable dollar or draft capital amount not dollar why not pull the trigger there because then you have eight weeks to kind of figure out do you want to move forward with this guy or not he is the type of player that i think if you're going to go out and trade for that one makes sense mac jones like that type cast of guy who has maybe been you know in a situation that wasn't the most enviable and hasn't had success but you think there's something there that is the type of player i think would make sense if you are going to go to

hit the trade market but at the same time i am almost content to move forward. If the price is too much with the rookie quarterback that I drafted in the fifth round this year that I took time to develop over the last six months, and it just at least see what we have and then make another decision next year. I think if you're trading for someone like Mac Jones or actually Mac Jones, you're almost committing to them. So are you ready to do that with 48 hours to decide? It's interesting for sure. But I don't know if that's something I would have the gumption to do right now. Yeah. I think that if you were giving up something like a third round pick for Mac Jones that, and the funny thing is like,

I want to, I would love to give this more space and say like oh we'll talk about this later this week but the trade deadline is Tuesday so we kind of got to talk about this right now um it's like it feels a tad inappropriate considering that he just got hurt but like that's the reality right so uh with the Mac Jones idea or you know Trey Lance is being thrown out there and in the comments the one thing is there's some upside to it uh and the upside is the potential that the guy ends up being a good fit and you mentioned like new england jones came into the league and played well right and then bill belichick like undid that team as if he hated his team like he just gave him no receivers their

offensive line is horrendous he had matt patricia as their play caller like the vikings are the complete opposite of this uh what mac jones has had so if you could trade for someone that might have some upside but you are not really locked into if you're not giving up a super high draft pick that would seem advantageous trey lance would seem advantageous just from the idea that like someone would actually play trey lance at football and any but anybody else along the lines of and and i i see is sending all the different names and everything else but like the andy dalton the teddy bridgewater i don't see why the lions would want to help you make the playoffs potentially if you if they gave you teddy bridgewater but along the lines of those journeyman veteran quarterbacks i'm not sure i really see the point like maybe they're gonna argue hey when

we get jefferson back even an andy dalton could get us to the playoffs but you're asking andy dalton to show up halfway through the season if you don't win next week then you're talking about like still playing from behind fighting for the last playoff spot and just kind of for what you'd rather just play jaron hall um so yeah i know there's those types of options of the the andy dalton type maybe andy dalton on this team turns back the clock i don't know but trey lance and mac jones are the only guys who might be available who you could actually see being part of the future if everything clicked properly and you're not really locked into either so you could also draft a quarterback and then

you're kind of like taking a bunch of shots at it which i think is is fine if that's the way they wanted to approach it it's just can you work out a trade this quickly can you get on the phone basically tonight with whoever you think might be potentially trading you a quarterback and then try to do it and how much are you willing to give up and you know how much do you believe that somebody can come here and either become the future quarterback if it's a Trey Lance or something or who can save your season if it's an Andy Dalton type which you know the odds this is there's still a 50 50 playoff team right now so the odds if you bring in an andy dalton or what like 30 percent if you do it for a fifth round pick is it worth it like there's all this math that kind of has

to go into this decision now and you know we're not really used to this this is not something we've dealt with yeah i i think you've kind of sold me on on the the mac jones deal like it or like the mac jones type of deal and then really there's only a handful of players no not even a handful there's like a couple of players where that actually is like a thing where you're essentially redrafting a guy midway through his contract and just saying all right let's figure this one out and if it doesn't work then we'll just draft in two years again. I think that one makes way more sense because at least you have the appeal of upside. And what could this guy be down the road? I think that's why you've kind of talked me into that kind of trade.

Because if you can go out and get a guy who was drafted in the first round three years ago, who some people wanted the Vikings to draft three years ago, or you can go get Trey Lance or someone like that. By nature, they have more, at least on the surface, talent or appeal or upside than a guy like Jaron Hall, who is a fifth round pick. So if you're just committing to a young guy and saying, what do we got? Maybe it makes more sense to go out and get a young guy that you've probably potentially scouted in the past. And you've definitely looked at and kicked around the idea. If those guys are available, we don't know if they are, but Mac Jones should be available.

The Patriots are going nowhere fast. Trey Lance should be available because Dallas traded basically nothing for him to just bring him in. That would pique my interest more than a veteran guy, whoever. I mean, there's in the comments, there's people throwing out whatever veteran quarterback backup you can think of because I don't know what your ceiling is with those guys. We're not

saying if you trade for mac jones or trey lance they're gonna win the super bowl this year but if you're trading for andy dalton or josh dobbs now that kyler's coming back you're hoping to win the super bowl this year you're hoping to make the playoffs and go on a run and i just don't you're just kind of putting like a band-aid on a leak and hoping it doesn't start leaking again. Even though it probably will. Whereas the other option at least gives you a little bit more upside and potential and intrigue down the road. So,

yeah, I mean, talking about a trade like this, an hour and a half after Kirk pops his Achilles, but like, yeah, the trade deadlines in 48 hours, less than,

so it's kind of now or never. And I'm sure the conversation that we're having right now in real time is at least something that Casey is thinking about right now, which guy is available, which guy makes sense, which type of player could we go get if we want to hit the trade market? It's just the league keeps going and it just sounds grass, but it does. And I think that's the Vikings have to turn the page to Atlanta,

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I mean, what an unbelievably difficult situation just like to flip a switch. And then all of a sudden you are in panic mode as an organization of like, what are we going to do? And people are asking about Kyler Murray. I have no idea if Arizona is interested in trading Kyler Murray, or if they think that that's their franchise quarterback and they are going to try to get Marvin Harrison jr. As a receiver for him in the draft. I don't know how they're thinking. Uh, of course I've always been intrigued by the idea of Kyler Murray with

this setup because I think he had one of the poorest setups in the one year where it was pretty good. He was in the MVP race through about race through about 12 13 weeks um so there's that but how do you pull that trade off like right now today like is that possible uh and then if you want to bring a little um levity to the situation or whatever uh tom brady anybody anybody want tom brady like would would if tom let me just throw this out there if tom brady called and he said i really want to play for you guys like just let me cut just let me come play are you gonna tell the goat no are you gonna be like tom we're good we're good i would say yes i would say let him play the wilfs would say yes they'd sell a million tom brady jerseys like in

in like five minutes like yeah that would be fun but hey we're just throwing names out there now like and but that one is like a it's like not out of the realm of possibility because he's still probably one of the top 20 quarterbacks on the planet and maybe a top 15 if he gave him like three weeks to get ready and healthy um yeah that one would intrigue interest me more than maybe any of them um if he called me and said hey can we play can i play for you i would say uh yeah absolutely the state of quarterback play is so bad in the nfl right now and so many people are hurt that if you had tom brady i think he's a i think he's a top 15 i think he's i think he's a top 15 like I think he's, I think he's a top 15. Like he wasn't good last year, but he also didn't have this. Like they had offensive line issues and everything else.

And this just seems completely silly. And yet now I'm convinced this is a great idea. Actually like market down the 40 minute Mark of this podcast, where I said, absolutely call Tom Brady right now. Did I ever in a million years think walking into Lambeau today that I'd be walking out being like, call Brady? No, I can't say that I expected that. But just you may find that absurd. But last year, the 49ers were ready to call Ben Roethlisberger and see if he wanted to play if they had beaten the Eagles and gone to the Super Bowl.

So, you know, maybe Big Ben, Brady, Phillip Rivers, Drew Brees. Drew Brees has hair now. Matt Ryan. Matt Ryan. Wait a minute. No. No, he looked too bad. He looked too bad last year.

But maybe. I mean, if you're an old dude looking for one more shot and you've been working out, you've been throwing the ball over the mountains and stuff, is there any better team in the league to join to give it like one last go at being iconic? If you're like Matt Ryan and you join a team halfway through and get them to the playoffs?

I mean, we're getting Jefferson back, Addison, Hawkinson, two great tackles. Like you can't ask for anything better. So, I mean, maybe this feels like completely ridiculous at this point, but I, I don't think it's insane to think that they'll get some calls. And you should absolutely exhaust every option. Now, if you're Casey over the next 48 hours, like I think we're saying Tom Brady, matt ryan we're saying it a little bit tongue in cheek but not really like it's like these are things that you have to consider you have to consider every single option now you have to unturn every single stone and i think it's going to come even more real monday morning when you wake up and you say what the hell just happened we just lost our

franchise quarterback and then you're saying oh i have 24 hours now because you're waking up in monday morning in this made-up situation that i'm talking about now to decide what you want to do moving forward if there is no move jaron hall is the guy as far as i'm concerned but i think over the next 48 hours now, 24 hours when you wake up on Monday morning, you have to untone, unturn every single stone that exists because this roster is too good to just say, let's throw it in reverse. It's why tanking never really made sense for this team in the first place. Like, yeah, let's go get Caleb Williams and Drake May and pair him with Justin Jefferson and Jordan Addison and TJ Hawkinson in a great offensive line, at least tackle wise moving forward. But all those names I just named are the reason that the tank never made sense in the first place, because you cannot take a year for granted in the NFL, which is why it would make sense to go out and canvas every single option that's possible until the trade deadline passes on Tuesday. If the trade deadline passes on Tuesday with no deal, Jaron Hall it is. If the trade deadline passes and you have Tom Brady walking into the TCO

Performance Center in Eagan, this podcast is going to do big numbers. There is nothing I'll ever say won't happen i mean after brett so weird yeah after brett farve came here and the roof collapsed the next year you can never say anything won't happen and i mean you've got all sorts of uh names popping up now uh stan humphries is definitely the funniest i think stan is probably a little too old but marcus mariotto we've got we've got don't tease me with that ryan fitzpatrick i don't think ryan fitzpatrick uh you know but you guys are very funny in the comments with all the names uh who was the one there was one that somebody meant oh carson wentz i'm just gonna pass on that like i

don't i don't see it any better than nick mullins at this point like no one likes that yeah he just i think when any locker room he goes into, apparently that goes the other way. You have a good culture going right now. So whoever you pick, like you want them to fit that mold. You, you could see it.

I mean, you could see, I don't want to totally dismiss it. Like I want to say almost every name out loud, except for Doug flew being mentioned by you guys. But I want to say the name out loud. So they don't like acquire someone in a day. And then like you guys didn't even talk about how great it would be to have Carson Wentz.

Maybe that to me falls under the category of it's probably not going to take you anywhere. So I don't really see the point. But, you know, look, we have no idea at this point how they're going to go about it or if they're going to go out and try to get someone. But now I am deeply rooting for Tom Brady to come here. It would just be no matter how it worked out, it would be one of the coolest things to ever happen. It was just Tom Brady walking through those doors. Frank Reich.

Yeah, you guys are really in your bag now with all the backup quarterbacks. There's other things that happen in this football game that may be worth a quick discussion if we can. Number one being, what do you think happened to Greg Joseph today? I don't know, but he missed a field goal, had a field goal blocked, and then his biggest mistake of the day might have just been kicking the ball out of bounds on the kickoff. The Packers cannot move the ball before halftime. I don't even think they had a first down to this point.

And Greg Joseph just banged the ball 20 yards to the right and it went out of bounds. Not a good day for him. Not a good two week stretch for him after pushing the, the extra point wide, right. In prime time, missing another, you know, in prime time you want to chalk it up to just a bad day i guess lambo is weird um but it was a disaster the kicking game was was if the vikings were in a close game and they weren't because the packers stink um the kicking game would have been a huge talking point because it was not good today. And I'm trying to fight against whiplash,

and it's hard because, especially kickers in Minnesota, seem to get everyone real riled up. But he would be on notice, as far as I'm concerned. You don't want to screw with that operation too much, but how many more times are we going to watch him push the thing right? Right now? He, he was nine of 11 going into this week and his two misses had come from 50

and I think 57 and it's soldier field. So it's not like he stinks, but it can go sideways for kickers pretty quickly. So it's something to keep an eye on for sure. Everything that you just talked about, I didn't care about at all. And I, and I asked you the question, but like not everything just pales so much in comparison i was just like i don't care

about the kicker anymore like you're totally right that i would have been like what is going on like should they get kickers in here this is weird but i know like but now tom brady on the mind all i'm doing is just reading the names that the comment section's coming up with like kellen mon but there is an interesting comment there as funny as you guys are being will levis was on the board and look i'm not saying one game means anything it looks like most of his touchdowns were just hail marys that fell into somebody's hands but just like launching the ball up we may end up coming back to that it's you know we we talked about it when mac jones had a good season and then it kind of fell off. And then we haven't had that discussion about drafting them or not. And look, they got Derrisaw instead of Mack Jones, they got Jordan Addison instead of, uh, Will Levis. So of course

those players are worth a ton on their rookie contracts, but also Will Levis just played amazing football. I would have never believed that by the way after we saw him in practice we saw him in practice we're like that's the guy okay i could see why he wasn't picked high but if he turns out to be a dude for tennessee that might end up being one that they do end up regretting for a long time i mean they had opportunities to draft a bunch of these guys whether it was like kenny pickett or mac Jones. And they always like, no, we don't really like that guy. We don't really like that guy. And they've most, I mean, they've been mostly right. And now, you know, the guy comes out and looks amazing. And, you know, it's true that if they drafted Levis, they would not have Addison.

They would still have Justin Jefferson and a quarterback is worth like five times as much as a wide receiver. So, I mean, you could say, you could say you'd rather have Addison, but it's just a fact that having a quarterback is way more important that you can find other receivers as this team does all the time and quarterbacks. This team does not exactly do all the time.

So I don't know. I like that's over way massive overreaction to just one thing but it is funny that we tried to talk about something else and i was like okay okay stop stop let's talk about the other thing again um the only other thing and again it seems pointless to talk about now is kevin o'connell and game management every week there seems to be things where we're like huh like why and he talked about wanting to get off to a hot start and and i thought well nothing's better getting off at a hot start than a touchdown they were moving the ball and on a fourth and one and a fourth and

three they're kicking field goals and i feel like he's been a little bit spooked um around the goal line by their poor red zone and again it doesn't really matter that much now because there's just this big much bigger discussion but i think that eventually we'll get back to someday talking about whether he can manage the play calling and the game management because even if they had won that game with kirk fully healthy we would have been probably going after him a little bit about some of that stuff. Delays of game timeouts, the operation still remains a little wonky. Yeah, it does. Um, I definitely wanted him to go for it on that fourth and one early in the game. Frankly, his explanation didn't really compute to me. Like you said,

you want a fast start. The fastest way to start is by scoring a touchdown against a team. That's not very good, especially at home, take the wind out of their sails. Instead, you settled for a 42-yard field goal at Lambeau Field. In the conditions, you missed, and the home crowd was momentarily in it before Jordan Love went three and out again. is a little weird to me because it does feel like he's been spooked by results um and i i would like you to almost stick with just like just if this is your process just keep stick with it if you want to be a guy who's really aggressive in new school and goes for it on fourth and one like you did in the chiefs game do it like just stick with it um i i why he's, he's flustered by the lack of success in the low red zone. But I think that's proof of, you know, areas of the game where he still needs to grow as a coach too.

And at some point, I also think that we need to talk about whether it's the running scheme or the running backs. It's the running back with Madison. I mean, there's just no burst there, but even cam acres who looked much quicker at the end of the day, he ends up averaging like two yards of carry. And that was the case last year. That's been the case so far this year. And if they are going to win games,

because we have mostly declared that they either need to get Tom Brady or the season's over. Um, if they are going to win games, it has to be now with running the ball and defense. They can't really run the ball. I think it's probably more they have to just pass it more often to short passes, like quick passes to Jefferson when he returns, if he returns, and Addison and get the ball to Hawkinson and so forth. Because I just think this running game is something they need to completely overhaul and look at in the future. I just don't think it's ever going to be good. Before we wrap up though, because again, I don't know, like Jordan Love is real quick. We think

Jordan Love is just bad and the Packers are completely screwed and they're going to win like four games this year. Like that level bad, right? We all agree on that. Yeah. This felt like an inflection point game for the Packers with Jordan Love it felt like maybe a game where if Jordan Love comes out puts the team on his back beats the rivals and at least shows a pulse that you're like all right maybe this is the guy moving forward instead he didn't pick up a first down until late in the first half and just was completely ineffective at the end of the game when frankly it was on the table for the packers when they when her cousins got hurt jaron hall came in and immediately got strip sacked if jordan love just throws a touchdown there then you're scared

if you're minnesota um he didn't because he's just not very good and i don't really think there's much else that needs to be discussed when we look at Jordan Love. It's not like people who want to jump off the Bryce Young bandwagon right away, even though I have questions about that guy. Does he have the stature to succeed? This is a guy who's learned from Aaron Rodgers, who love him or hate him, is one of the best to ever do it. And you've learned under him for three seasons now, and you're not a rookie, and you've had experience in the system,

and you come out and you just have nothing, really. So I don't need any more Jordan Love. I don't think the Packers need any more Jordan Love. This felt like a game that they now turn the page and start thinking, all right, who's available in the 2024 draft? Yeah, it looks so much like Drew Locke to me where he'll make a few throws a game where you're just like, whoa, man, wow, that is amazing. And then the rest of it just there's no operation there.

There's no rhythm and timing and decision making. By the way, you know, just comment section saying that it should never be discussed about will Levis versus Jordan Addison. The most valuable wide receiver in the league is probably worth a fifth of what a great starting quarterback is worth. So yeah, it's going to be discussed. I mean, look, I, who's been more impressed, but Jordan Addison than me, like from day one, from day one of training camp. Oh my gosh, this dude can play.

And yet at the same time, I would give up any receiver in the league including justin jefferson for a top quarterback um i mean right if someone's and here's how you know if someone said you can have josh allen for justin jefferson you're gonna say yes um so that's just the reality of the thing uh and also when your quarterback who's older gets hurt and then you know another team on the same day drafts the quarterback that you could have drafted and he's not under contract and all those things. Then, yeah, that's something we're going to be discussing. It was one game for Will Levis, though, so I'm not saying that that like, oh, my gosh, idiots. Just that it's something that we're going to kind of remember that that was on the table.

They decided to go a different direction and so forth um do you think this means for sure kirk cousins is done in minnesota yeah i think it means he's for sure done in minnesota and i know nothing this is completely conjecture but i would not be surprised if he's just done like this is a guy who's put his body through hell we saw it in the netflix documentary he's wanted to squeeze all the juice out of this orange as possible as humanly possible and you got to give him credit he's done that he's put himself in position consistently to do that but this is not just an injury you come back from in six weeks and say like all right let's get back on the horse and try again this is a devastating injury like for the team for the

franchise but also for the guy that suffered the injury because this is not an injury that you just recover from overnight or in six months even um and not to mention he's going to be 36 like it feels like if kirk cousins just played his last game in the NFL, I don't know, but it wouldn't shock me if midway through this rehab process, he says, you know what? I'm done.

I'm going to go hang out with Julie and the kids. I've made enough money. I'm going to go move to that house in Michigan and just hang out. And he, he, he deserves it. Frankly, if that's what he decides more power to him,

cause he's had a great career numbers wise and insanely great career earnings wise. Um, so if this is it, I mean, I can't blame him. We've seen other quarterbacks hang it up around this age. I mean,

he just has not really looked his age. So we never think about it with the durability factor, but this this one is different. This one is very much different. I guess. Yeah, we're going to have to see about that. But I agree that coming back from this injury. I mean, Dan Marino did it once upon a time, but there's no guarantee at all that he could come back the same way and already this is a guy who's lacking mobility who needs every bit of his base to throw we always talk about that is when he could set and throw but you know the velocity i don't think has been really the same i think it's been more the mental processing and the accuracy that's been great um but yeah i mean this one could be it for him or you know look and here I just want to make this point, since I'm just throwing out everything right now, is when in the offseason you guys make fun of TJ Hawkinson, you guys talk about, oh, this player's selfish for negotiating his contract,

whatever. Well, look what just happened today for a guy who doesn't have a contract for the future. That's why they do it. That's why they fight for every dollar because this can end any day where, you know, you're talking about just, you stepped the wrong way and then all of a sudden maybe your career might be over. So that's why all players should fight all the time for the biggest contracts that they can get, including Kirk cousins who, who I've, I've never

criticized for that ever, never criticized for him fighting for his last dollar. So last thing, we'll just put it this way. Do you think it's just Jaron Hall and they played out? Or actually, give me your three most likely scenarios. My most likely scenarios, this is very boring, but they are Jaron Hall, Jared Hall, Jaron Hall. I think it's really fun to talk about all the guys that they could trade for um who do i want the most no if that's the question it's tom brady trey lance mac jones um but what i think is going to happen is that this

trade deadline will pass tuesday they will not have made a move um and the team that cares so much about culture and sticking with their guys a a la Alexander Madison, getting more touches over Cam Akers, Dalton Reisner not seeing time over Ezra Cleveland or Ed Ingram, continues to stick with their guy. And they move forward with Jaron Hall and Nick Mullins, a combination of the two. That's what I think. There's another conversation. Would you trade Daniiel hunter now i would if i was the general manager i would um because i think you have to be realistic with what this means for your season and your outlook and if you can get a second round pick for daniel hunter that is probably better than scrapping for maybe the

playoffs with whoever you have under center so yeah if if someone called me and said we'll give you a second round pick for Daniil Hunter I would do it I would understand that it would probably piss off a lot of people in that locker room and the head coach. But as the general manager, my job would be to kind of look at this season and three, four or five seasons down the road. I think that would be a good move for the future of the team. Well, I would go with, we'll call it the Tom Brady option,

but it means everybody like if you can, if you could give me just, just cause I want it. Any of those guys that we named Phillip rivers, Matt Ryan, Drew Brees. just just because i want it any of those guys that we named philip rivers matt ryan drew breeze if you're either a guarantee or almost a guarantee for the hall of fame come on down come on down let's go jacoby brissett's a name i don't know i don't need that guy that's what i don't need i don't need the like nick mullins but slightly better you just have nick mullins um so we'll

see what what happens what a day what a day what a day i just you never you never that's why that's why we come here like because you just never know what's going to happen so uh very different vibe than i thought we'd be walking out with but we'll just have to wait and see how they approach it what they want to do um if there are people like kevin o'connell who want to push for another quarterback to come in here to give themselves a chance with the team that they have. If not, this has made things very, very interesting the rest of the way and into the future that we'll be talking about, of course, every day on the show.

So there will be many more podcasts. I was thinking about just today, D today dane about how like you do the the post game and then we got murph jeremiah searles manny hill uh the round table with andrew kramer and uh will raggetts uh if you don't like my opinions there's many other people who have opinions on this show and i'm super appreciative of having you here uh dane to be able to break this down because i needed someone to bounce back and forth of all the things that I was thinking about walking out of that locker room. So thanks so much, everybody, for tuning in. Had a huge audience today. Really appreciate all you guys. And we will find out,

as always, what happens next. But thanks for watching. And from Lambeau Field, we will catch you all next time.