Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Vikings Camp Recap, Day 8: McCarthy bounces back, KOC praises Okudah (hour 2)

Episode Date: August 2, 2025

Tommy says his Harrison Phillips role going to be diminished this year based on new talent at the position or is he going to see less snaps yet be more effective? I don't think he's actually going to see less snaps than last year. I think last year was really about where he needed to be. It was two years ago where he was pushing 800 snaps and that was just, that was way too much. Uh, I think that the assignments might be a little bit less because they're more of line up and go. Um, last year was so much trickery and I had a really good discussion and I wrote about it last year with Harrison

about his PFF grade. Um, because I showed Harrison that he had the best PFF grade of the year after a certain game. And he said, funny, because it's not my best PFF or my, it's not my best grade with the coaches. And I said, well, where's the difference then? And he said, the difference is that with his role specifically, sometimes he is intentionally jumping gaps. I think that's how he described it, where he lines up in one place and he would jump to the next gap as soon as the snap was taken, which means you'll probably get pushed back a little bit by a guard. But the reason is to

bring the center with him and then open up space for the linebackers. Now that's complicated. That's involving a lot of moving parts there, right? Like you got to get the center to come with you. You got to reach on the guard. You got to get the linebacker to time it out right and get all that stuff. I think this year they can line up and go more than having to always trick everybody on offense. Now they're going to trick, but you don't have to always trick and that could help Harrison Phillips. It just line up and go. And what I think ends up happening is dictated by the personnel a little bit. Uh, right now they're playing

a ton of base because it's camp and you're playing a ton of base. But when opposing teams play three wide receivers, like I'm pretty sure the Falcons are playing three wide receivers, for example, or the bears are playing three wide receivers. So are you going to be more in nickel? And then you're going to have Harrison Phillips. And then this first play it's Hargrave second play it's Alan third down it's both and Phillips is off the field. I think you could see a lot of that.

So I'm curious about how many reps we do see from somebody like Redmond or someone like Rodriguez, when they can actually mix and match and do a lot of that first down, second down type of stuff based on the situation and the opposing team's personnel. Cause the opposing team goes big a little bit. Chicago has a couple of tight ends. If they go big, then you could also see the Vikings going big as well. the opposing team goes big a little bit. Chicago has a couple tight ends. If they go big, then you could also see the Vikings going big as well. And I think they have big personnel

that is as good as anybody in the NFL for a defense. Because most defenses are undersized at linebacker, which the Vikings are, but those guys don't play that way. And they don't play a traditional three, four defensive line, which the Vikings are but those guys don't play that way and they don't play a Traditional 3-4 defensive line which the Vikings it looks like are actually going to do There was something else I was going to met oh you guys in the comments somebody brought up Who was it looks like a Bears fan? Hello Bears fan. I'm always curious about how other teams fans land on the feed But welcome all from the NFC North are welcome. I know Vikings fans might yell at you, but I'm always up for an FC North discussion so this

Bears fan MP says Micah Parsons is a bear now I don't think that Micah Parsons is going to be traded. And I certainly don't. I mean, think about and Steve brings this up just how many players have demanded trades, how few players get traded. Elite players don't often get traded, but it has happened in recent years. Tyree kill was one of them and Khalil Mack was another one.

Bradley Chubb was an elite player for a little bit. So or at least a very good player. It does happen from time to time. Kaleel Mack was another one Bradley Chubb was an elite player for a little bit So or at least a very good player. It does happen from time to time but I thought If I'm concocting a Vikings Micah Parsons trade, let's just say let's just say that I'm trying for the heck of it to come up with a Micah Parsons trade to the Minnesota Vikings. I think it would have to be something like Dallas Turner and a first if not a first and a third or maybe even more than that two firsts Dallas Turner and two firsts. As of right now, that would be pretty hard to do because Dallas Turner's look so good in camp and then you already have Van Ginkle and Grenard and I guess Micah Parsons would

end up coming in and playing the role of Ivan Pace Jr. except for he just rushes every time and maybe Van Ginkle drops back a lot. I don't even know. I'm just throwing it out there because everyone's every all 32 or 31 fan bases are saying, what would you trade for Micah Parsons? But man, if the Vikings had Micah Parsons on this defense, I don't know how they lose a game. I gave that guy is incredible.

So there's, there's my, there's my offer is Dallas Turner and two firsts. Would you guys do that? That's basically like sending three firsts for Micah Parsons. I mean, maybe, maybe it's worth it. Maybe. How do you get them to do it? Right? Is that like, uh, with, with that scare everybody, is that a Herschel Walker trick? Maybe that's the way you convince Jerry to do it. You're like, Jerry, Herschel Walker, just do it again. But this time it's not Herschel Walker. It's Mike of Parsons Maybe maybe he's still doing these absolutely ridiculous

Trade or negotiations. Why wouldn't he do something silly like that? Son of beaver says how much of the first game do you think Sam Howell gets and how soon does he get cut if he struggles? He's got to get a lot. I think he's got to get a lot of that first game because they really have to show, uh, or he really has to show the coaching staff that he can actually do this. I mean, it just has been so miserable that he's got to prove himself. I lost I lost my place. Someone was asking about the depth of the cornerback group,

so I wanted to address that, but I lost my. Oh, there it is. First name, last name, how's wide receiver and cornerback depth looking any movement on who is showing out or getting reps for the last few days? It's really been pretty, pretty stagnant. movement on who is showing out or getting reps. For the last few days, it's really been pretty stagnant. I have not seen new receivers getting reps other than Lucky Jackson. And I did ask Kevin O'Connell about Rondale Moore, because I'm writing about him today.

And what it sounded like to me from his response was kind of what I thought it would be. I think they want Rondale more to work out, but you can't take a guy who played in a Cliff Kingsbury offense in Arizona and was more or less an underneath threat only, and then suddenly flip a switch and be like, Hey, go figure out this entire offense. You didn't play football last year and learn how to do every single thing in this offense, all the motions, all the details. So I think they're bringing Rondale along slowly. He did have a catch today that was pretty good. They took a deep shot to him that I think was just out of his reach. He's done okay and he's looked fast. But the fact that it's still lucky Jackson does tell

us that he's got something to prove here over the coming weeks and maybe in the preseason to get him a leg up on this depth chart. I think really the Felton hasn't done it either. I have not been overwhelmed by Felton. He had a deep ball today where kind of got spun around, didn't really play the ball correctly. So nobody has stepped up to the plate there. And with the corners, it's almost like too many people are stepping up to the plate. Even, you know, I did notice that I think it was, uh, Ambry Thomas was actually in late in practice today. Um, so, you know, they're, they're mixing and matching a little bit, but they really do have some depth there. Fan duel question of the day.

How good is JJ McCarthy have to be for them to hit the fandel over of 8.5 wins? I'm going to have one of those every day. This fan, um, fan duel questions of the day. Mr. Mayor says, even if he was QB 25, we win nine games. That might be a little much, Mr. Mayor. 25 is probably not Quite good enough. I think he has to be so think about like what was Bo Nix last year Bo Nix was probably QB like 14 maybe 16 last season and

he was able to get 10 wins on a pretty strong Denver team that may have had an easy schedule in the second half of the season and had a free win when Kansas City didn't play as starters but nonetheless they played pretty well and got to double-digit wins and he I think was maybe the 16th best quarterback in the league. That's probably as low as I would be willing to go. Zuma Kev says if McCarthy plays 17, he will win at least eight without having to be good. 10 to 12 wins seems more likely. Kevin Seifert said something to me today.

We recorded a podcast, but we said he said something to me today about how if McCarthy like we've gotten past the point of McCarthy, like not being able to do this at all. Like we've already seen enough to know that he can do this to some extent. And now it's just like, where is that range? We know he can run a team. We know he can get on the field and we know we could play, but can he be a elite quarterback, an average quarterback somewhere in between flawed, but good, like all those things, right?

That's where we're still trying to figure that out. Uh, Matt B probably top half of the league to be above eight and a half wins, but I prefer quarterback tier rankings than a list. Lists don't say how far apart. I've had the same issue with QB rankings. I agree that number four might be miles ahead of number five and they never factor for that. They also a lot of times don't factor for what kind of offense you have. People will rank Jalen Hurts as the 18th best quarterback in the league and not consider that he will definitely not be the 18th best quarterback in the league and their offense is going to be elite and he's going to win games. I mean, I guess if this was in some sort of vacuum, but it's not in a vacuum, it's real football. So you can't do it that way.

But top half of the league, I would agree if he is in the top half, then they will win more than eight and a half games. If Jaren Hall is out there now, I think we saw how that went. Robert, what do you think about the third tight end so far? I mean, you're a sec has it right now, but it's just very hard to evaluate people when the ball's not coming out. I think you're a sec has made some nice catches. He's got good size. He looks pretty smooth running routes. Might have to just see a lot more in preseason from him to tell. Um, that might be a position that as of right now, I would,

if I were to take a guess, I might throw out there that they could, you know, potentially, Oh hi, buddy makes another appearance on the show. I think buddy needs to go out real quick, so maybe I should play my Christian Derisaw interview. What do you guys think? And we've moved some wires so he doesn't unhook the microphone today. Okay, all right, fair enough, Buddy.

So today we had a good conversation with, say hello, with your snoot, there you go. We had a good conversation with Christian Derisaw. I was there for that. So I am going to bring that to you now and let out this dog real quick. So here he is. These first couple of days, it went really well. Able to get back in the flow of things and kind of get back to 14. Haven't been full yet, but kind of getting reps here and there. Everything's been going really well.

What have they told you about the plan for how things are going to go for the next few weeks? Yeah, we laid that out coming into camp. And it's just all about just checking those. Those, I kind of got goals set each week and just checking those off. And that asks things pick up and tend to progress. We'll see how the body reacts, but everything's trending in the right direction. And yeah, everything's feeling good. Hey, I was giving you just a ton of credit with your rehab. Just why do you

think that is just from your work? What's that been like to be on on schedule here? What's that? I really feel like is instilled in me. Um, this is what I've been doing my whole life. It's playing football and being away from the game, um, knowing that, that things aren't over yet. Uh, there's a lot of football still left. Um, and just fighting through that. My teammates, myself, my family, um, and God just leading away and just truly trusting the trainers and everything that they were telling me to do, uh, has led me to this moment. And, um, it's really a blessing to be here now, being able to put on these pads and

be back out there on the field. Has your body responded each time the way you expected it to when you start to push? It's crazy, it has. It's kind of like the uncertain, not really knowing what to really expect after a day on the field leading all the way back to when we had mini camp and now I'm being here in fall camp, really getting really tested out against real defense. So yeah, everything's been turning in the right direction. Yeah, so I want to ask, like, was it hard to trust it at first? Or like, I guess, I

don't know until you go full full, but You kind of question yourself a little bit, but going out there against guys like that, you can't have no hesitation. So I talked to a few guys that's dealt with knee surgeries and things like that. They say you just gotta trust it and I trusted everything's been feeling good. How did it feel to move your first body when you first got out there? Oh man, it felt great because I haven't done that since October. Um, so just being able to be out here like I said with my teammates and just playing a game that I love. And I'm actually getting to go against the defense full speed,

get my get my feet back under me man everything's been feeling really good. Or some of the people you've reached out to for advice. It's got some team, TJ Hockinson, Jonathan Allen, Ken Robinson who's not here but he was talking to me while he was here. Cuz he kind of had a similar thing in college. But yeah, man, all positive things and just trusting the process. Cuz you describe where the offense is right now, especially with your in and out wills and Justin's not playing.

So how would you accurately gauge where you guys are up to this point right now? So as a unit? It's early in camp, so it's kind of, I really wouldn't say, you can't put anything on it yet. We're just trying to come out here each day to get better at the little things and working our way to that first game of the season. So we don't got a lot of time, but we got time to figure things out. And there's some things that we need to figure out as a unit,

just to be the offense that we know that we're capable of being. So yeah man we just take it a day at a time. Everything's not gonna be perfect especially going against a defense like B-Flo's man you're not gonna see that every Sunday. So now it's great to go against that and man it's fun just to be out here on this field. It's competing and it's getting better that's what we got to do every day. How's the process of getting on the same page with Donovan? Man, it's great. I remember being a rookie playing next to a vet, my rookie year. And whatever I can do to make his job easier, I'm trying to do.

And whether that's communicating, being there for him in the pass, game, run game. Whatever I can do to make his job easier, I'm doing. But like I said, he's gonna be a good one. And we're gonna work whatever he needs. You know, I got him, I got his back, no matter what happens. So, no, it's gonna be fun. What's the next box you need to check? It's just coming out here every day, just getting better.

And it's as simple as that. It's as simple as that. I mean, is it like back to back, like fully padded practices? Is it just more 11 on 11 snaps? Whatever they tell me to do, I come out here and do it. And if things are feeling right, we keep it moving. There you go, Christian Derrassaw. Oh gosh.

Oh boy. So my wife, as you guys know, is the Minnesota Lynx Broadcaster and she is out of town. And that's how Buddy ends up down here with me during the livestream. So he has consistently made appearances every single night. Alright, let's get back to your questions here. Sean says, I know Okuda is playing well in camp, but is his physical play going to fly in the regular season? Won't he be at risk of being called for PI or illegal contact if he plays this physical style during the season? The answer is yes. And you know,

the hard part about this entire thing, Sean, is that I don't want to be the person that pours cold water on the Jeff Okuda idea because it would be a cool story if Okuda went from this guy who has really struggled throughout his career and has had injuries and has been banged up and has had issues and then all of a sudden it clicks and he's in the right system and he's got the right coaches and it's the right role. And then just bang. There it is. I mean, that's a, that's a great story.

We love comeback stories. We love when a former first rounder gets one last chance and then makes good on it. That's awesome. Um, but there is a healthy amount of skepticism required for exactly what you're saying, which is if he plays this physically, is there the potential for it to get flagged as he had a lot of penalties in his career? The other thing is, too, that when you rely a lot on that physical play, like sometimes, I mean, you have receivers in this league who are just really, really good at running routes, breaking off at the top of routes, creating separation.

I think that's been really a major issue for him is, yeah, you can hit guys off the line of scrimmage and you could be physical with them, but if they could still create separation, then you're not getting the same sort of value as someone like what I see from Isaiah Rogers is somebody who mirrors extremely well, who is very tight in coverage, who could play the football, and we'll just have to see with Okuda. But I mean, there was in that answer, there was no mention of Mackay Blackman. Mackay Blackman has kind of been a little out of sight out of mind in this camp so far. And I think it's the Jeff Okuda show. As of this moment, every thing is subjective to change of course

Jeff says Jeffrey have you noticed Elijah Williams at all? I have not I see him working after practice Those guys just aren't getting a lot of reps for somebody like Elijah Williams He needs to flash in the preseason games, and he needs to develop and that means the stuff that we don't really see. So just for example you could see on the video here kind of our angle we get to see a lot of the quarterbacks and receivers warming up and the other side of the field is a lot of the one on ones with the offensive lineman I could go over there but I think this is a little better video maybe one day I'll do as much as I can on the offensive line on the other side of the field. Maybe I'll do that tomorrow, but they're going to see a lot of that stuff to determine. Does someone have the potential? Because when you get out

there for 11 on 11s, I mean, he might have five reps so far in training camp. That's where preseason you play a second half of a preseason game. You show some stuff, uh, you know, you do the best you can and then maybe you get an opportunity to stick around in the practice squad. That is the best case scenario for someone like Elijah Williams. And that goes for pretty much anybody who is on the third team right now. Like those guys are not going to make a difference in 2025. If they do, things have gone horribly for you. Um, but that doesn't mean you can't be a player who develops Levi Drake Rodriguez last year played what?

Seven snaps and then now he's going to play and Jalen Redmond showed him something off of the XFL and then became a player and slowly worked into it. So kind of has to go that way. Caleb can McCarthy have a Joe Burrow second year type season? I mean, it's possible, but that is just setting the bar so high. Like I think with the similarity would be their personality, pocket movement and making plays inside the pocket without being a freak athlete. Joe Burrow checks that box for sure.

And then the supporting cast. Burrow did not have a very good offensive line in 2021, but the supporting cast and then had to have some things go right. Had to have Kansas City kind of melt down in the playoff game a little bit to get there to the Super Bowl. But you look at this team top to bottom, compare it to that team. I mean, I think this team is more talented than the team

burrow was on, but it's asking a lot because burrow came out at 24 years old and he came out with a ton of experience, just played a lot, a lot, a lot of football in college through the ball million times in his last year in college. I mean, how many, I mean, burrow was the best quarterback in college football and just through and through and through and through. I mean, if JJ McCarthy stayed in college football last year, this year, and then it was next year he came out,

then we would have a better comparison. And that's why when we talk about the accuracy and stuff like that and, and burrow is the most dead eye accurate quarterback or one of the most dead eye accurate quarterbacks in the league, but he didn't start out that way. He didn't wake up one day and just, I'm all of a sudden the most accurate. Uh, I'm sure there's some natural elements to that, but a lot of it is throwing passes in games and getting experience and continuing to develop. So that's the stuff where it's going to have to happen in real time with J.J. McCarthy, where there might be weeks where he's inaccurate and he's going to have to

develop and work through it. There's days in this camp where he's inaccurate and he's got to work through it and grow from it. And I thought that's why today was a good day for him is because he was able to do that. He was able to do some things better today than he did over the last couple days and just and just grow. But growing in real time on the field against the Bears is not the easiest thing to do. So I have, I think reasonable expectations. Sometimes I see, you know, comment sections. I mean, you're acting like I'm calling him Kyle Bowler or something when I talk about the accuracy. That's not what I'm saying. I'm calling him Kyle Boller or something. When I talk about the accuracy, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it's probably not going to be flawless. Although

I am very aware that there has been an invented JJ McCarthy who has zero flaws. So I do know that that anytime you critique anything, there are going to be a lot of people who say that all those critiques are wrong because he's perfect and I get why you'd want that to be true. Hamza says, been hearing about a lot of drops from the receivers at camp. Do you think it has to do with how hard JJ is throwing the ball? Does he need to take some velocity off his throws? I thought today's probably was with the line drive throw to Jordan Addison that went through his hands and was intercepted. I just thought he ripped that football and

maybe just was a little bit too hard to bring in on a fingertip type catch. Although I thought it was pretty accurate and that may have been it. Some of the deep balls, you know, those are hard to catch. Jalen Naylor is never going to be flawless when it comes to his hands. He's kind of like Marcus Valdez scantling in that way, where he's a great deep runner. But, you know, when you go deep all the time, if you're not Justin Jefferson, you don't always bring those balls in. So that happens sometimes. I don't think it's been an inordinate amount of drops. It's just notable when there's an interception and I think deserves an explanation that, Hey, that that ball is one that Jordan Addison usually catches.

Uh, Rome M top 15 for JJ would be great for year one in the league. Yeah. I mean, I think that top 15 is probably where I would have him this year based on what I've seen and what he has around him and the fact that he's doing all this without Jefferson in there, which just that's got to be said. If Jefferson is in there, they probably convert some of these drives that haven't worked out as well. But I think top 15 is probably in the range of where he needs to be in order for them to hit the over.

It's a tough schedule, it's a tough division, and you know, all those sorts of things. So, you know, that is important to remember. Alright, somehow you guys got into the WNBAss because I mentioned my wife doing play-by-play there. The links are crushing it, guys. The links are absolutely crushing it. Caleb says, what current NFL quarterback does JJ remind you of? Personality, talent, play style, it factor.

Who would you say? Yeah, I mean, I think that we mentioned the it factor element of Joe burrow. Now that is, that is it factor just out of this world. So I'm not sure that you can quite compare anybody to a Joe burrow it factor. He is like the all time it factor quarterback, like Joe Namath and Joe burrow deserve to both be mentioned in that. I don't know if McCarthy's up there with that. You know, maybe like he's out. He's more outgoing than a Justin Herbert, but I guess I can't

really go there with Herbert because Herbert is a really accurate passer, but he didn't come out that way. Like Herbert came out as a guy who was just whipping the ball all over the place and there was some concerns about that. Trying to kind of think through who I would want to compare him to because the sample size is so small of seeing him play. Hmm. I mean as far as the way he handles himself, I like the way CJ Stroud handles himself similar

to McCarthy with those two guys. But Stroud is a better thrower than McCarthy as far as his accuracy goes. Current quarterback. I don't know. I don't know. TJ Hawkinson said, uh, a little bit of maybe young Matthew Stafford, but he was such a gunslinger that I don't think that that's what he's going to be. I think he's going to be much more of a keep the train on the

tracks type of quarterback. And that's why, you know, when I bring up that maybe it's like a Brock Purdy, for some reason people don't like that. Like Brock Purdy just got a massive contract and he's got a stronger arm than him and Purdy's a little bit more experienced and accurate. But I think that it's the same sort of concept that Purdy was a guy and anyone who's got a good supporting cast Everyone says their quarterback actually stinks So I guess that's gonna happen to you guys this year that everybody outside of Minnesota will say that JJ actually stinks

Because he's got such a great supporting cast when he's good But someone like Brock Purdy, I have so much respect for his poise and his ability to run the offense and be the leader and be in command. There's no question who's in command. I think he's got great toughness and the football doesn't always go flawlessly where it's supposed to go, but he makes enough plays and he runs the offense right. And I think that's who they want McCarthy to be this year and where he grows from there. I'm not sure. Uh, Skullful shack. How does Silas Bolden look? Just haven't seen a lot of them. Uh, there was only one day where they did punt returns. There was one day

with the third team where he made a nice catch over the middle. If I'm being honest, I mean, these third team guys are just not getting a lot of work. I know we all find, uh, our undrafted free agent that, you know, we fall in love with when they pick them up, but it just not getting a lot of work. I know we all find our undrafted free agent that we fall in love with when they pick them up, but just not getting a lot of work as of this moment. That's why I think O'Connell and the way he does things first and second teams are doing everything out here right now. And the preseason belongs to the younger kids. Uh, max powers with the super chat says Kirk will be QB two. I'm calling it. I don't know. Maybe I still think that that would be too much of a distraction to bring in Kirk way too much of a story. And I don't think O'Connell wants that, but they

got to be making phone calls to look around. I don't think he wants to come back as QB two anyway. Uh, bitter Bruce says 23rd to go over for our fan dual question of the day. How good would McCarthy have to be? Where would he have to rank to go over eight and a half? 23rd is to me very much on the borderline. I don't know if you can be a bottom third and still make the playoffs and still win nine games. I don't think that that's that's possible. Dr. Smug says, relax. Howell just got here after the draft, brand new offense and a complicated one. He's a rookie to this. No, no, that's it's that goes out the window after probably about the third day of training camp. I mean, if you're a quarterback in this league,

you should be spending 24-7. I mean, we've seen quarterbacks go to new teams. How about Sam Bradford? Sam Bradford played two weeks after being acquired and had a good game and beat the Packers at US Bank Stadium. You should be able to learn he's not a rookie to anything. He's now in his third year in the NFL, and there is absolutely no excuse

to have a practice like today. It was horrendous. They couldn't even get anything done. I don't know what his completions were, but it couldn't have been more than three or four completions the entire day, including one to Theo Jackson on a bad read. It's going bad. There's no way to talk your way out of that one with, oh, well, you know, give him time or something. Like it's got to happen really soon. And if it doesn't happen really soon, then they are

going to have to look elsewhere. That's for sure. Uh, based Kirby says, uh, if Flacco gets cut by the Browns, could he come back up JJ? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think so. Uh, I dunno. Like, did the Browns want to do that? Do they want to cut Joe Flacco or would they rather have Pickett start and then Flacco be their backup and then I don't know what to do with the other guys. I haven't been paying attention to Browns practice recaps because they're the Browns. So I am, I am not interested in all at all in what Shadr Sanders does. He's a fifth round draft pick to me. That's just not that different than any other fifth

round draft pick. That's where the league evaluated him. And I know that a lot of people are going to be sad that they just had it wrong. But you know, or at least the evaluation, I guess it's possible. But until until he becomes the next Brock Purdy, I just kind of don't really care. You got to prove that first if you're a fifth rounder, but what else are they going to do? Is Gabriel going to get in there first? I don't know. They could they could definitely cut Joe Flacco and end up having the Vikings pick him up as a backup. It feels like they they're going to start looking around though, and they're going to give him as far as you know what dr. Smug said Maybe I was dr. Smug about that answer, but there's just no excuse

He's going to get at least after the first preseason game. They're going to take a look at him To see just how he performs and if he's picked it up a little bit better, but practice matters the most everybody learned that during the Kyle Slaughter thing, and you know, you want to be Dr. Smug. That's, you know what? Actually, Dr. Smug, I might have to steal your name. That every once in a while, I'm gonna say, let me put on my lab coat, I'm about to be Dr. Smug right now. And I'm gonna be a little smug about the time that we tried to tell you that Kyle Slaughter wasn't playing good in practice even if he was good in the preseason games and he was probably gonna get cut and then he was and then the fans were mad and I was like practice matters guys it matters the most it matters way more than the

preseason games unless you are those third team type of players and that's the only way to get your your reps so mean, Zimmer took the preseason way more seriously. Didn't Zimmer never lose a preseason game or something? Maybe lost one his entire time? He was the coach of the Vikings? He cared. This is not a coach who cares. So, Sam Howell, what he does in these reps, that's what's going to matter the most, and so far it's been ugly. Will says, Ty Felton showing any flashes? Sounds like he's been struggling. Struggling is too far. Ty Felton is about exactly where Ty Felton should be right now. It's raw skill. I mean, he can run. he can really run, but he also is not any kind of refined receiver

at this point. And he's still learning. Now I thought today he kind of had just an awkward play, but he's still learning on the fly. I don't think he's going to be ready to be a role player right away. And, you know, even today where they ran a jet sweep to him, I know I just handed off the jet sweep. If you saw me, they ran a jet sweep to him and he kind of just like slipped and fell down. And it's like, he's still getting it. Somebody in the press area compared him to a baby deer. And I think that

that's right. It's just going to take some time. It's just going to take some time for him to learn how to play this position at this level. And that means that Lucky Jackson, Rondale Moore, I see Thayer Thomas pop out every day and I'm interested in Thayer Thomas a little bit and how he continues to go on. But I just don't think that Felton is ready. And it reminds me of KJ Osborne that first year where he just wasn't ready to play at this level.

But the skill is is there. The speed is there. The raw talent is there. It's just going to take Keenan McCartell and his typical work with these guys to get the most out of him. But I don't know if in one camp you can kind of get far enough for him to be a significant role player yet. Special teams, kickoffs, make some plays on special teams and stuff like that. That's it's reminds me actually of Levi Drake Rodriguez last year

where it's like, I see it, but it's not there yet and it's going to take a little while. And when they draft these guys, everybody looks at their highlight reels and kind of falls in love with them and things of what they could be. But there's a real process that has to go on. So struggling is not as far as I would go. I would just say that, uh, there's a lot of things that he is going to have to improve on in order to be somebody that they could put in to a Jalen Naylor type of role. And they'll be looking for that probably next year.

Caleb says what? Oh, I'm sorry. I already read that one. I meant to hit the next one, which for us from Conrad. Do we need to resign to find Gilmore for our secondary who stood out today in the secondaries, Maya Vaughn, Okuda, etc. Who stood out specifically today? Not really sure specifically today who stood out today in the secondaries, Maya Vaughn, Okuda, et cetera. Who stood out specifically today?

Not really sure specifically today who stood out. I mean, the comments about Okuda certainly did. So Maya Vaughn stands out to me every day. McClothern has before. I will still call him Dwight. That's for his friends, his nickname. But do they need to sign Stefan Gilmore? No, I don't think so right now. And that's really the point

is that you should evaluate this first. And that's what they wanted to do. Instead of going out and trying to get somebody in the secondary, like a veteran before they had real answers, they decided, Hey, why don't we just see in training camp? Then we'll decide should we sign Jack Jones or Rasul Douglas or Stefan Gilmore, somebody else. As of this moment, I would say that they would not sign someone. I think they've been very happy with Okuda. And if Blackman is your depth and Vaughn is, you know, getting to this point, then you feel OK about it, if not good, because even, I mean, what Okuda is doing is playing in the base. So he's not playing every single snap just when they're

in nickel. They don't play nickel as much as everybody else. Even today in passing situations, you saw Theo Jackson in with Josh Mattelis and Mattelis is in the box and Jackson is playing the cam by num spot and then there's two corners. This defense does play a lot of just two corners, which most defenses are playing three. They're playing two a lot. Um, and the two corners have been great. Uh, Byron Murphy and Isaiah Rogers, they look really, really good. So they don't have to go out and try to make a move right now if there's an injury, maybe. But as of right now, I think that they

should be pretty happy with the way that their secondary looks. Let's see, Steve says, if you've been following JJ from year one to now, then you know he's shown steady progress from the preseason game in 24 through spring OTAs. Yeah, I would say so. I mean, clearly there was a setback of the injury that took a while for him to get back

to full speed. But when he came out at minicamp through the ball, checked a lot of boxes in the way that he looked even in minicamp looked very similar to last year and is back up to the same size that we were impressed by the velocity. Sort of to be young, right? You know, I get a sore calf or something and I can't jog for a week, but JJ McCarthy has massive knee surgery and then, you know, he's back. But a year later later but back to

the you know full speed steady progress is the way that I would describe last year and I think you're referring actually to last spring from the OTA's into training camp last year yeah when he first got here that's really it that's really it and that's one of the things about being confident about JJ McCarthy that you never really know. So coming out of college, there were these sort of camps and I in 2024, I went to the combine and I asked people, everybody I ran into, Hey, how do you feel about McCarthy? How do you feel about McCarthy? And people were in camps. Some people I talked to said, ah, game manager. I remember talking to a former NFL head coach who said,

looks like a game manager to me. Can you really win a Super Bowl with a game manager? And I'm like, well, okay, that's fair. That's fair based on what how he played in Michigan. And there were other people who were convinced that he was the next Joe Montana. Oh, he's amazing. He's incredible.

He's unbelievable. All that sort of stuff. And what nobody knew whether it was the Haters if you will the doubters Or the people who were fully convinced what nobody really would know until he gets here is how he's going to handle Coaching and how he's gonna handle adversity which he certainly went through with the injury But he's definitely going through even in practice from a practice to practice.

You're seeing like that was a really tough rep. And I think what O'Connell was saying is there's a thing in chess called being tilted. It's like when you lose a bad game and then playing the next game like an idiot because you're trying to just checkmate the other person and you're just mad. So I think his point from that earlier clip was that you can't get tilted. Like you can't get mad because the defense is winning and I'm sure they're

talking trash and everything else, which probably gets old when you've lost, you know, a bunch of reps that day. So he's learning to go through those things and then making progress after that. It is extremely important. How did the tight ends look? I mean, Josh Oliver, man, I'd put him on any football team, any era, anytime, anywhere, backyard football on Thanksgiving Day, 1940s where you couldn't throw the ball forward yet, 60s where there were just fistfights and they put, I think I saw an NFL films in the 50s. They actually put mattresses on the side of the field for people to fall into

as they were being pushed. It was that crazy and violent any era, anytime. Josh Oliver is on my football team. He's look great. I mean, honestly, he's look great. He makes catches. He's blocking people. Hockinson looks back to full speed. I think that's important. Hockinson has looked like he had a full off season and has the burst that was a missing a little bit. I'm sure that he wouldn't say that in front of any TV

cameras, but if you ask him, he might say, yeah, I never fully got back that quickness where he can get open, but he's open a lot in practice and he's made quite a few plays. In this ideal J.J. McCarthy world, he leans on Hawkinson and I think we've seen that so far. R.A., thank you again for the super chat. The Pope is not a Bears fan. He is a God chant skull or he and God, oh, he and God, I get it. He and God chant skull.

Okay, yeah. I think the Pope actually is a Bears fan, but that, you know, must be like, I don't want to go out of line with a religious joke, but like, isn't there a thing with like the the guilt or. Self scrutiny in certain religions and maybe he's doing it as sort of a test of will and pushing himself to bounds with the bears that are in inhumane to prove his dedication. I don't know something like that. I'm going to move on quickly

before I get into an area that I am not safe. Frank says my point on Howell is that Seattle had Drew Lock in 2023, watched him play miserably in New York and how all 24 preferred lock to how in 25. The only thing I could say is that for Sam Howell in Washington, he had a run of a handful of games where he was really, really good and that was it. The rest of his games have been really bad. He took a ton of sacks. He threw a ton of interceptions. And I think we see why. There's just a lot of mistakes that are

being made. He's probably not a quarterback that you can put in and hope that he can win 50% of his games. I think previously I thought maybe he could with this situation and maybe if he was playing with the number one offensive would look a lot better. I guarantee it would still. It's it's got to be better than this in order to convince me of that right now.

It feels to me like you are going to the drawing board and talking about ideas. You are not in the phase of making a move yet. You are in the maybe we got to look into ideas phase. That's where I would be with Sam. How Steve says Parsons isn't worth that much draft early round draft capital. Well, you know, if you're drafted 30 seconds, Steve, where you're going to need to pay him a large portion of your cap immediately great players on the rookie deals are

worth more. Yeah, I understand what you're saying, but if we go to like a Tyree kill deal or a Khalil Mac deal, that's not true. There are five to ten players in the league that transcend what you just said. I mostly agree with it, but the Tyree-Kill and Khalil-Mac deals are the only ones that are comparable to the level of Micah Parsons. He is an elite player. I'm not serious with a Micah Parsons move. It doesn't make a lot of sense. They already have Grenard van Ginkle and Turner is an ascending player on a rookie contract that you're hearing definitely good things.

But at the same time, it is Michael Parsons. I mean, we are talking about one of the best players in the entire NFL. This defense would be the scariest in a long time in the league if they had Micah Parsons. That's my point. And when you get to this, you know, I mean, there's, there's only so far that you can push the whole like rookie quarterback contract thing. But for Micah Parsons, I would be able to push that really far. Uh, Maricio, I think, sorry if I said that wrong. Jets got to an AFC Championship with Mark

Sanchez and Jefferson. And with Jefferson, McCarthy only needs to be better than 30. So I get what you're saying, but what year was that? Was that like 07? It was a long time ago. I think the league has changed since then. I don't think you can have the 30th best quarterback and win. But I understand what you're getting at is that he does certainly doesn't have to be perfect. Uh, but I think he's got to be better than Mark Sanchez unless, unless they get like a Parsons on their D cause I mean those defenses were sick for Rex Ryan.

I mean, they were really, they weren't defenses. We're talking about top five. I mean, they were like the nastiest defenses in the league and I mean look, you know the Vikings could do that They could get the 30th best quarterback play and eat their way into the playoffs then upset some people because of their defense That's not a very good road to try to take I think the lowest possible answer for the fan duel question of the day is probably where what would you have said? Teddy Bridgewater was in 15 he was probably or

even Bo Nicks last year probably 18th best is as low as I would want to go I mean you need to have you need to have good quarterback play at least good and at least clutch quarterback play this looks like it says Chewie but it's got some funny looking words how's the rookie quarterback for Minnesota looking? Max Brosmer got in there today, uh, and was a little bit better than he was the day before where he threw an interception, had a very nice throw to Ron Dale Moore, I think where he put a lot behind. Was it Ron Dale Moore?

I think it was. Hmm. Yeah, it might've been in traffic where he showed he showed off, like, I can throw in between a couple of defenders. I've been impressed every time Max Brosmer gets in. He looks like he knows where it's supposed to go. He looks like he fits in this offense. Now he's playing against the threes, that's not the twos, it's a little bit different. And I don't think that, uh, cause Chewy follows up with any shot, he's the best backup. No, I don't think so. I don't think he's ready for that

That's just that's just too much to ask from somebody like Brosmer to arrive here as an undrafted free agent And then just have to get thrown right into the mix Mama says how do you view Jaren Hall? Didn't he I didn't become a regular listener until last season. Well Thank you for joining us last season. Thank you very much. I'm glad to have you. The number of people who have said they've just found the show. I'm like, Hey, you know, that's really speaks to the growth and maybe there's some word of mouth out there with you guys telling people about the show. And I'm really thrilled about that. So thank you. As far as Jaren Hall goes, it just wasn't going to happen.

The physical skill wasn't there. He looked to me like a kind of a CFL quarterback where he could throw it nicely, had an accurate ball, but he was just not of enough arm strength speed. And you saw it in the game where he got hurt. He tried to take off and he just immediately got eliminated, just taken right out. And I know it's like I'm not making fun of his injury. Even he said, wow, NFL players hit hard.

There are requirements to this and arm strength is usually one of them. It does matter how big you are a lot of times. Yeah, Drew Brees was small. Yeah, but there's not many quarterbacks who can be five foot, 11, six feet tall, 200 pounds and stand up against the best of the best. Usually have to have elite traits like out of this world, Drew Brees accuracy, Doug Flutie speed and playmaking or something like that. Kyler Murray speed. So just probably wasn't going to happen for Jaren Hall.

Skullful shack. Any chance Turner takes Van Ginkle spot? No, no Van Giggles looks freaking awesome. We just don't bring him up because it's Van Ginkle. We know he's so good. He's look great. Turner's not going to take his spot. But what Turner's going to do is he's going to rotate with him

and he is going to probably push Van Ginkle at times back to the regular linebacker position. So there's going to be a lot of different ways that they can use Dallas Turner and Van Ginkle together. Third downs, maybe you're having Van Ginkle rush up the middle. That could be it. Do we need a dog pun now? I know, I know, yeah. Every time the dog shows itself, maybe I do need to start following my own rules, which is coming up with dog puns.

Well, Sam Howell's in the dog house, guys, after the last couple of games. Certainly on this podcast and you know somebody else mentioned like you there's other recaps you can read if you don't believe me for anybody defending Sam Howell's performance it's very possible that it could get better it could click in it could improve it's just that when you can't even complete passes, you can't even run plays, it's not really helping them develop a lot of guys or prepare a lot of guys.

Desmond says, how do you feel about a run game with the new roster? I feel really good. I feel really good about where the run game is right now. And the offensive line is a big part of it, but I really think Jordan Mason is the key here. Much respect to Cam Akers, who has a big heart and tries like crazy, and was pretty good last year at times.

You couldn't run Cam Akers 25 times in a game if it was working. I mean, he was probably like a eight carry type of guy. Jordan Mason, you could use all day long if you needed to. And the offensive line is a different beast. I mean, you heard me with Christian Darasaw sort of mentioned to him. Like, did it feel good to move your first body? And because the first snap Darasaw took, he grabbed Tyree on Ingram Dawkins and just was like,

nope, you are out of the club, my friend. To use Jeremiah Searle's language, like I am tossing you out the club. And it was like, oh, yeah, Christian Derrissa was probably this top three run blocking left tackle in the entire league. So that's going to be better for them. And then Donovan Jackson, I think in the run game has looked good at the pass protection. He has been welcomed to the NFL repeatedly, but he's playing really great players. I thought today I saw something for Donovan Jackson.

Did I mention this already? I saw something from Donovan Jackson that Did I mention this already? I saw something from Donovan Jackson that I like today, even though it was a loss. J. Von Hargrave got underneath his pads and just shoved him back into the quarterback, but he battled the whole way. I mean, he was fighting the whole way and trying to anchor and trying everything he could Hargrave's just unbelievable football, but he's he's fighting out there. And

I think in the run game, he's very confident in doing that. Son of Beavers, has Ty Chandler look good? I think so. I mean, but the thing about Ty Chandler is he's just so freaking fast. He is crazy fast, has crazy burst. So he's going to look good in a scenario like this. But how he deals with all the complexities of the offense is really the difference maker, and that's kind of a Kevin O'Connell and Josh McCown and Wes Phillips thing.

Very hard to figure that out from here. Rex Grossman went to the Super Bowl, he sure did, and that was a long time ago. And so did Trent Dilfer, and that was a long time ago. The quarterbacks who have gone to the Super Bowl recently in the NFC have something in common with J.J. McCarthy though. They're great teams, they're great supporting cast,

they had great receivers. Remember once upon a time where defenses were kind of dominating in the NFL except for Brady and Manning and people were talking about how well, you know, Moss never won a Superbowl. So you should really not get receivers. And I think we haven't heard that argument in a while because most of the teams that go to the Superbowl now, uh, they're just complete teams. There's no quarterback in the NFC. That's just running over everybody into the Super Bowl now. They're just complete teams. There's no quarterback in the NFC that's just running over everybody into the Super Bowl. Maybe that'll be Jayden Daniels. I don't know. But until then, it's really about who's got the best roster, the most complete team. And JJ McCarthy has that. Is it on par with the 23 49ers? I think I

mean, it's close. It's close. Is it on par with Philly last year and their team? It's close. Like I think the Eagles last year? And it's close. Like, I think the Eagles last year had a better offensive line. Saquon Barkley had an all time season, but it's close. It's it's not crazy far away when you add Justin Jefferson to the mix. A.J. Brown is phenomenal. But you could see the comparisons of where you just have to do your job as a quarterback as opposed to being Superman, which is kind of the case

like in Buffalo, for example. Hunter says, JJ reminds me of Jeff George, not current. Well, of course, Jeff George is like 60, but I'm not seeing that. I'm not seeing that Jeff George was a walks to the beat of his own drum guy, could be contentious with franchises and coaches. That's not McCarthy. And as far as his play, no way he's close on the arm. No way, no way. And he's way better on the decision making. Jeff George was going to try to throw it into any window, anytime, anywhere, took sacks constantly, tried to roll back and around and throw it deep down the field all the time. It worked with the Vikings because he had Moss and Carter. Super fun quarterback to watch. Not really a guy you want to try to win games with. I think actually McCarthy is probably the opposite, um, that he is going

to be more of like, Oh, well they won a game on 18 for 27 passing for 210 yards and no turnovers and one sack. And they just did a good job and won the game. So that's not what you saw with Jeff George. Jeff George is like, he's going to throw for 390 and four touchdowns, or he's going to throw for 140 and four interceptions. And those are the only two outlook outlooks for Jeff George. But as far as entertainment value is one of the most fun quarterbacks to watch ever. So I'm not seeing that and definitely not from the arm strength. He's

got arm strength, but Jeff George, we're talking about like top five arm strength in history. I don't think it's quite that. Uh, now kill says is Donovan Jackson looking comfortable out there? Uh, appreciate the extensive answer or extensive coverage. Oh, you're welcome. And I appreciate you. Uh, hey, Mel kills, one of those guys and there's a, and there are a lot of you out there that I'd be doing this June 28th and you guys are here having the conversation. So there are those among us that enjoy football as much as I do. And I appreciate you for that that as far as Donovan Jackson Yeah, I think I think so. I think he hasn't looked wildly out of place

there's been so much of the discussion about Like the defensive line getting after the quarterback and they have and it's been a tough start for Jackson This has been a tough start for everybody's been tough start for Ryan Kelly It's been a tough start for Jackson. This has been a tough start for everybody. It's been a tough start for Ryan Kelly. It's floor is his defense. It's tough to play them in real games.

CJ Stroud melted down against them last year. He's a great young quarterback. Like that's how it goes. But I think it's that, it's that, do you have the will? Do you have the desire to improve and learn from your teammates? And you heard Darryl, so I asked him about Jackson. He felt like he's coming along pretty well. I'm

willing to give that a lot of time. Guard is a hard position and they these guys are making it a nightmare but as far as when he's going to battle with Levi Drake Rodriguez or Jaylen Redmond, I think he's been fine. I think he's looked like a starting guard. It's just when he's going against the beast. It's a lot harder. looked like a starting guard. It's just when he's going against the beast, it's a lot harder. Brahmi says, Zim famously hated most quarterbacks. Do you think he would have jived with McCarthy? So I think Zim mostly had a beef with one quarterback because he loved Teddy. He loves Sam Bradford. I had an interview with Sam Bradford in 18 after he had been out of the league and Bradford said because I was kind of surprised. I was just like, hey, you know, what was it like working with him?

He said he loves him. He said they got along really super well. He said that they kind of jived on X's and O's and they saw the game similarly. And I don't know. I think Zim had a beef with one quarterback and that one quarterback just happened to be the one he was with the longest. And that the franchise wanted and that the GM wanted and that he did not want. He wanted a bunch of defensive players for that money and not Kirk Cousins. I think he would have loved J.J.

McCarthy. I do. And you know why? I think. A.J. McCarthy. I do. And you know why? I think. So coaches have this thing, and it might be something to consider if you coach kids, if you're like a high school coach or youth coach or something, is that all of us have this tendency to look for players that are like us. And there was a Darrell Mori said this years ago, the general manager of the Rockets for a while, he might be somewhere now 76ers,

but they looked really closely at these scouting reports from all their scouts. And of course their scouts were former basketball players, so if the scout was a former center, he would tend to overrate centers and be wrong on them more often. And the three and D former players would be wrong on former players that were three and D because they would give them too much credit because they're kind of

making it inadvertently about themselves. We would all do that. We all like people who are like us, right? You guys like football. So you watch me. They're like this guy like football. I like being around this guy. Well, there's the tendency with coaches to do the same thing. So think about Zim and how he is.

Zim is an old school, hard ass, tough as nails. I will coach with a freaking eye patch on. If I die, I die type of guy. Now I know I think Kirk said that but you know that was about something different he he was a Crazy person when it came to football with his obsession with football and with toughness and all that stuff It was just that guy So what he looked for in quarterbacks was guys who had the dog in them guys who were leaders guys who were tough guys Who would get after other players and I mean you get I mean you all think of Teddy is a really nice guy guys who had the dog in them, guys who were leaders, guys who were tough, guys who would get after other players. And I mean, you get, I mean, you all think of Teddy is a really nice guy. He was, and he was to you for sure. And he was to us for sure. But I think, I

think Teddy had that dog in him. I think he was resilient and tough and he knew how to lead people and Zimmer saw that in him. And I think Bradford actually showed that too, with all the injuries he went through and how he played JJ's got that that in him. I think Bradford actually showed that too with all the injuries he went through and how he played. JJ's got that dog in him. He just has something natural to him where he knows how to lead people. He knows how to lead an offense. You see it in the two minute drill.

You see it on a daily basis with the way he communicates with his teammates. I mean, yeah, it's just it's there's something there that I think Zimmer would have really liked about JJ McCarthy that every every coach he has. I mean, think about Jim Harbaugh is Jim Harbaugh like the new Gen Z favorite favorite coach? No, he's like an old school hard, right? Very enthusiastic guy, but also like crazy old school football coach. And that was McCarthy's college coach. So first name, last name says Van Ginkle and Granard both had 900 snaps and the rest of the edge rushers combined for 1200. We could have three 900 snap edge rushers this year.

Oh, if you're well, I guess if you're counting like what Jihad Ward and I see, yeah, if you're counting Jihad Ward as an edge rusher, he was really an interior rusher most of the time, but I get what you're what you're saying. Could we have three 900 snap rushers? I don't think so. I don't think so. I think in an ideal world, it probably goes Jonathan Grinard somewhere in the 850 range, Van Ginkle somewhere in the 8 to 750 range and Dallas Turner somewhere in the 6 to 7. And then you're going to have to mix in other people like Gabe Murphy. They might use packages for rushing where it's only one of those guys. And it might just be Jonathan Allen, Jayvon Hargrave, and Jonathan Grenard, and then nobody else is on the field.

So there's so many different options that they have there. But I think that's kind of ideal. I see your point, though. There is a lot of snaps to get allocated here. So maybe, I mean, maybe. Like Flores, one thing we know about Flores is he's going to push the limits on snap counts. We do know that. We do know that because he's done that with

Harrison Smith where every year they say, you know, we'd like to get Harrison off the field sometimes and No, no, we ain't doing that. So, you know what you might be right. They might push it pretty hard on that I don't think they necessarily really want to necessarily really want to. Delton says what kind of wrinkles do you see in the defensive formation, in particular with Hargrave and Allen being in there? In training camp they just don't do that because you have all these fans that are there taking videos in the stands and they're not going to show anything until those folks are gone. But the thing is that they're running all their base stuff.

And that means that they're adding those blitzes as part of their base packages. And they're getting those fundamentals down of the scheme. And then what you're talking about, formations, that's where it's going to be something that comes after practices are closed, probably to us as well.

Because they don't want us going out and telling the Bears where they're going to line up people. But you know, Hargrave and Allen, I think are going to be traditional three, four D end type of alignment a lot, except for on third down. And that's where it could get weird. You could see Allen moving to the outside to D end and lining up grenades somewhere else, running stunts or games or something like that. I mean, there's a lot of different options there for them on defense. Will says completely hypothetical. Would you trade McCarthy for Jordan love straight up if they were both on rookie deals? Hmm. Over the off season, what I started calling these will was the JJ McCarthy trap questions because it's like, would you trade McCarthy for Caleb Williams straight up today? It's like, well, I mean, there's an argument for that, but I'm not going to say yes and

then have everyone yell at me. Uh, right. Um, you know, McCarthy, I think was a better prospect coming out. We have a sample size on love, but if he was on a rookie deal, that's the thing. There's a lot of quarterbacks because you have no sample on JJ McCarthy. There's a lot of quarterbacks in the league that you could go, Hey, would you bring him here and play with Jefferson? You might win the super bowl. I mean, when Jordan love, if he was here coached by KOC and with Jefferson and Addison, you could very

reasonably win the Super Bowl with this football team. And I know what Jordan love is. So you'd have to lean that way for the odds. But I like the way McCarthy plays football in this system a little bit better than the ups and downs of somebody like Jordan love. So it is definitely kind of a trappy question because I have so much more of a sample size of Seeing someone actually play pretty well in Jordan love, but I think that his ceiling over stretches is higher I think that over seasons JJ McCarthy has a chance to be more consistent than Jordan love but You know when it's when it's against any player you've already seen It's probably better to just pick the player player you've already seen, it's probably better to just pick the player that you've got the sample and you can work with.

But that's what makes it a trappy question. The reality is that Jordan Love's not on a rookie contract, and even though they developed him over a couple years, which was the right thing to do, that's the trouble that Green Bay has that the Vikings don't have. And that's the edge. But I think they're two different types of quarterbacks. Matt says now that there's officially been a preseason game, can we start talking about what we're looking forward to in the first preseason game?

Oh, well, we'll have a night. We will have a night where we go through, I'll make a big old list and we'll talk about it and break it all down. What I'm looking for. I mean, right now it's a lot of, I mean the obvious stuff like, okay, how many snaps does JJ McCarthy play? Do they play Donovan Jackson a little bit more? And can we get a look at him? And then who stands out in the second team? Do we see, uh, what I love about the preseason is, you know, we go out to camp, we talk about this stuff.

Only a handful of you go to camp practices or get a chance to go out there. And in a preseason game, all these guys we've been talking about that are just sort of conceptual, you get to see them and then we can really have discussions about what you saw. So someone like Zamyia Vaughn, I've said his name a hundred times. It's like most of the audience hasn't seen the guy yet. I can't wait till you guys get to see some of these players and then we can discuss them and have a lot of New information. I love new information So you leading into that we'll have a lot to talk about for sure

But it's kind of the obvious, you know, it's like who's gonna step up, you know, who's going to be a Young player undrafted free agent, somebody who shines, who's out there that surprises us that maybe it tells us a little about them or some someone like Rondale Moore could could use this. Like he could he could use a big performance in a preseason game to get some confidence and build on where he's at in this offense or tie Felton like somebody who has had, I think a lot of kind of awkward moments so far and just doesn't look very refined. Like he needs a couple of big plays to kind of get going. So a lot of, a lot of interest for the preseason game.

Can't wait for that one. I can't wait for the post game podcast with Dana Mizutani where we break it down. It's gonna be a lot of fun. Wesley says, just got home from workout here in California. Oh, all right. What do you think of this, Wesley? Oh yeah, that's a, I've been working out down here, working out my vocal chords, I guess. No, I'm just kidding. Have you discussed how Dallas Turner has looked? This is after nine o'clock so we can be a little weird Dallas turns look great, man I mean truly he has been if we were just naming best players in camp to me Jonathan Grinard is the best player in camp. I don't even know it's close and then maybe next is Dallas Turner He's just been a part of everything. He's been in on

coverage plays he has He's been in on coverage plays. He has rushed the passer from both sides. He's been a blitzer. I mean, he's just done everything that they could have asked him to do. And he's really looked fast, quick, strong. He looks like there's more moves in the bag. He looks like a guy who hung out with Jonathan Grenard all offseason. That's what he looks like. He looks like he's doing a lot of Jonathan Grenard things. Steven says biggest difference between Zim's training camp preseason and KOC's Zim won preseason games KOC does. That's not the biggest difference, but it is a difference.

I mean the biggest difference is the amount of contact and the amount of 11 on 11s. Like when I first saw KOC doing ones versus twos, I was like, is this a mistake? Did the wrong group come out there? Because Zimmer didn't do that. It was just ones versus ones and it was hard reps and it was physical and it was over and over and over and over and over again. That's just not how KOC runs his practice.

And KOC's had a pretty good health record for doing that. And I think KOC is right in doing it. Zimmer had much more aggressive practices. And as far as it's not about just winning the preseason games, Zimmer played the starters for a whole half in the third preseason game, an entire half. I remember Stefan Diggs got popped one time coming across the middle in the third preseason game against Seattle. I think there was a full crowd there. US Bank State was all like, what are we doing here? What is this?

Has Xavier Scott stood out at all? I think he has. I don't think he's quite fast enough to be a guy for them who gets in the game a lot but he's got my interest because he could catch the football out of the backfield so he's kind of intriguing to me a little bit he's a guy to watch in preseason for sure I've liked what I've seen from him so far I'm just not sure that he's gonna be you know like on a roster. He's got my attention though. Will says, does Okuda look like a starter out there? Have always been a Blackman fan, so curious if we see Okuda win the job.

It really feels like Okuda's winning the job. I mean, you heard those comments earlier from KOC about Okuda. They said they carved out a role for Jeff Okuda and that's what he's going to be. So it looks like right now, uh, Mackay Blackman would have a long way to go in order to be that guy, which means he's good depth. Um, you know, and I think that's really good for them, uh,

to have depth of someone like, um, Jeff Okuda is, I'm sorry, to depth like Mackay Blackman, a third round draft pick who played well in 23, that's good for them. That's something that I haven't felt like they've had in the secondary long time. I mean, I don't even know if they ever had it, even with Zim, they just kept those guys mostly healthy. But they actually do feel like if someone went down,

they would be in good shape. I just think right now it seems like they are very much on the Okuda train. We'll see if that actually comes to fruition or if it's kind of just talk, but normally it, you know, I mean, KOC has a lot of positive things to say about people, but there's degrees of that. And after now, year four of listening to his press conferences, you can kind of feel, was that like a real thing or was that kind of just, hey, he needs to keep working?

And that was a real thing, his comment today on Okuda. All right, anyway, great stuff again, guys tonight, really, really fun conversation. And guess what? We got, what do we got? Like four days in a row here of practices, which means live shows every night. And how about this? A conversation with Kevin Seifert of ESPN will be on the YouTube page tomorrow.

So make sure you keep an eye out for that. It's a really good discussion inside TCO Performance Center today. And we'll be running that on the YouTube page later. So great stuff everybody. Thank you so much for all of your time and participation. I hope to see you all back. Well, let's see. Tomorrow is a regular practice, I think. And so is Sunday. And then Monday, I think is the night. Yeah. Monday is the night practice. No. Okay. So I think Sunday, if I had to guess, I think Sunday is probably going to be a walkthrough. That may be a day where we don't do this on Sunday if it's a walkthrough because there's nothing to say new.

So definitely tomorrow and then Monday night after the night practice, I usually get done out of TCL, run back home, jump on live and we'll do after dark football talk. We'll break down the night practice and we'll have a lot of fun there. So again, thank you so much for everybody watching and listening and we will see all tomorrow night football.