Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Vikings can't let Nick Mullens' play influence their Kirk Cousins decision

Episode Date: December 26, 2023

Matthew Coller and Brian Murphy talk about how the play of Nick Mullens could influence the Kirk Cousins decision and Vikings fans' thinking over the final two games Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here. And it is a Monday morning Murph on a Tuesday because yesterday was Christmas. So Murph has like a family and wanted to have Christmas to himself. I don't understand that at all, Murph, because I spent the entire day letting my body just sink into the couch and watched a lot of football. But we have a lot to talk about. There is a report that the Vikings are considering going to Jaron Hall. So later today, Kevin O'Connell is going to talk. We'll get into all of that. But I did want to start with a question for you about yesterday's game

with the Raiders and the Kansas City Chiefs. So the Raiders annihilated the Kansas City Chiefs offense. Patrick Mahomes was running for his life the entire day. They come away with a win in which their quarterback threw for 62 yards. Does it change the way you feel about Josh Dobbs at all that the Raiders were able to do that? Like their defense has taken this huge step since Josh McDaniels got fired. Yeah. I mean, Antonio Pierce has really got that defense cooking, but I, I, I would hesitate to,

uh, to say that there's still hope for Josh Dobbs. Uh, I, I think, you know, Mahomes has shown himself to really not. I think that, I think the, the pace and the amount of games and the amount of heavy lifting games that the Chiefs have played over the years is really starting to take its toll. I think you're seeing a little bit of the roster flaying. You're seeing the injuries catch up, which is want to do with a championship club that's been able to play as strong as they have. It feels like Mahomes is almost struggling. You know, it feels like he is grasping and he's finding it more difficult to kind of bail himself out of trouble and bail

the Chiefs out of trouble on some of those third down plays, those fourth down plays that they would sustain drives and he would pull the proverbial rabbit out of the hat at least once or twice on a drive per game. That's not happening anymore. And then, yeah, the Raiders defense, I mean, you know, we can, you know, we can make fun of what, you know, what they did against the Vikings a couple of weeks ago, but that, I mean, they, since, since McDaniels has been fired, that has been Pierce's signature on that team and they're playing with purpose.

And I just feel like it's almost as if the tipping point there has been, I think, more where the Chiefs have been struggling and where Mahomes especially, he looks tired. I think they even brought it up on the broadcast. I mean, he just looks physically worn down, And that's going to happen when you're playing, you know, high pressure, high quality football games for five straight years as they have been. But I do notice that if there is a way, you know, that's the kind of stealing a defense, stealing a game defensively that we thought maybe Flores would be able to stitch together in the last couple of weeks. And it just hasn't happened. We can get into this too, but the injuries are really piling up for the Vikings on both sides of the ball. Their depth is really being exposed right now, no matter what Justin Jefferson could do the other day, and it came as close to willing them to victory as possible.

I think the clock has run out on the Vikings magic, even for Brian Flores and all he's been able to put together with that sort of undermanned defense all year, doing it by committee, doing it by belief, doing it by players getting an opportunity to maybe thrive and taking advantage of that opportunity, but there's even limits to how much that can play out over the long haul. As we know, if you're a top-ranked premium talent player, whether it's quarterback, receiver, guard, cornerback, safety, the greats do it consistently for four quarters and 17 games. The potential folks can do it for four quarters and, you know, 17 games. The potential folks can do it for four or five.

The dreamers can do it for one or two and have a moment, but there's never that sustained level of excellence. And that goes, I mean, that's why the talent evaluators are getting paid the way they are because they know. And if you're dealing with whether it's four backup, you know, three backup quarterbacks in a season, you're not going to be able to stitch together 12 games of success. You may get three or four games here or there.

You're going to have moments. And again, defensively too, you're going to have moments, but it seems like the Raiders stars are sustaining their play. The Vikings, close to being stars, wannabe-ing stars, pretending stars, they're fraying at the edges. So I just feel like the Vikings are just, they've run out of time. Does feel that way, and their playoff odds waking up today are about 1-4. However, if they win both games, they still have

a very good chance to get in. But what are the chances that they win both games? Just to circle back to the Josh Dobbs point, I'm not saying that I think that they shouldn't have benched Josh Dobbs. It was looking really ugly. And clearly, Kevin O'Connell was not trusting what he was seeing from Dobbs trying to run their offense. And, you know, one way you win 3-0 with bringing in Mullins, then you lose because Mullins throws a bunch of interceptions in back-to-back games. And I think yesterday watching on Christmas Day was just another example of backup quarterbacks. And Aiden O'Connell has to win a game where he doesn't complete a pass past like the first quarter or something like that's how they had to do it with their backup quarterback. And then Tommy DeVito, who was everybody's favorite Italian quarterback, and they made all the jokes and he did the sit down interview and all that stuff.

And he was, you know, making the most out of his little brand and everything. And then all of a sudden, you know, it comes to an end and they bench him. And Tyrod Taylor, another backup, has almost the magical moment. And like that's been half the league and half the season is just chasing around in circles what these backup quarterbacks are going to do. I guess it did make me, even though Kansas City is a different team from what we saw last year, definitely a different team from when they had Kelsey more in his prime.

Doesn't quite look the same now. And Tyree Kill, it's way different. If the Raiders did that against those groups, maybe I would analyze it differently. But I do think that the Raiders defense under Antonio Pierce was much more vicious. And maybe Josh Dobbs, I'm not saying he got screwed. Like it was a really bad game and they made the right decision to win that game at the end with Nick Mullins but I think if you're Dobbs you're watching it going hey like you guys expected me to beat this defense when you know

Patrick Mahomes can't do anything here so that that's all but I you know whatever like it's hard to say and the same goes for do they bring in Jaron Hall this week? I don't know. I mean, you're just chasing your tail. You're just rolling dice. You're just hoping that something clicks. But I want to get into a bigger subject before we whittle it back down to,

should they play Jaron Hall? Which is, some of the reaction coming out of that game where Nick Mullins threw four interceptions was focused around Kirk Cousins and the idea that if they just bring back Kirk Cousins and do a lot of the same things that they were doing, that they will win games like that. And I think that it's very important that the Vikings ownership and their front office do not let what we've seen from backup quarterbacks influence their decision on Kirk Cousins. Yes, Kirk Cousins is a very good quarterback. And if he's playing against

the Lions, maybe they win, or maybe they have a bunch of three and outs as they often do with Kirk Cousins, a quarterback and still lose the exact same way. I don't know. But I do know that Kirk Cousins is going to be expensive. And when you look at the roster, you could say, oh, well, it's all there. It's all in place. But then if I start going down the free agents, we don't know what's going to happen with Daniil Hunter. KJ Osborne is not going to be here. Brandon Powell is a free agent. Also, if you're thinking he's a KJ Osborne replacement, they don't have an answer at running back. Dalton Reisner is a free agent at left guard.

Are they going to resign him? Jonathan Bullard on the defensive side. We don't know if Harrison Smith is coming back. Like all of a sudden, and Jordan Hicks, who's had a great season, is a free agent as well. And as you mentioned with the defense, Murph, there are good defenses that can squeeze out with a great scheme, enough to be above average.

And then there are actual great defenses with superstar players across the board, which is what we saw from the Baltimore Ravens last night. A defense that has been built with stars over years that can actually lead you somewhere special. The Vikings do not have that so i do you agree with that statement that what we have seen from the backup quarterbacks should not influence anything that they do in terms of the quarterback position going forward it should not do it it's going to actually be math and salary cap and it's going to be rob brzezinski figuring out how he's going to you know as he has for 15 years find nooks and crannies within the cBA, deferring money, moving money around, getting on, you know, bended knee and asking maybe cousins if they do zero in on him to bring back?

Is he absolutely going to reach for the ceiling in the $40 million deal? Or would he be willing to take a pay cut because he's got familiarity and his family's been here now for four or five years and he has some roots and he's got some he's got Justin Jefferson coming back you know what that what is that discussion going to sound like what would it have sounded like if he didn't blow out his Achilles now that he's turning 36 and he's going to be 37 38 when this this next deal m, coming off of a major surgery, which we'd always talked about as durability being one of his key assets, that's taken a little bit of a chink too. These are key conversations. To answer the question, though, no, I don't think Nick Mullins and Josh Dobbs' performances and what they exposed as what might have been,

but for the fact that they are career backup quarterbacks, but for, you know, you've pointed this out numerous times. Kirk Cousins has moments of ugliness. Kirk Cousins has moments where you're wondering if he's been on the same page, what decision-making that was. More so, I think his whether he checks out of a player checks into a play or a decision he makes at the line more so than maybe not Mullins or Dobbs where it's you see that ball going out of their hand and you know it's a disaster waiting to

happen you get a few of those moments with Cousins but it's mostly his decision making and what goes on you know his conservative sort of default to checking down, as we saw in the playoff game against the Giants. Those are the kinds of decisions that leave your head scratching. So I don't think the lack of performance and the sort of regressing to the mean that was always obvious for Mullins, for Dobbs, that'll probably be there for Jaron Hall, should necessarily impact whether or not they're bringing Cousins back. They have to figure out, as you had mentioned too, who they're going to pay, what they're going to pay, is Flores coming back, is he going to be

able to sustain a defense that's going to require draft capital, free agent capital, and just capital in general. It's always that balancing act of how much money you're spending on either side of the ball. But you're right. Cousins is going to vacuum up a ton of cash. JJ obviously is going to as well. They have options with him, whether it's franchise tagging or they do have a little bit more of a hammer in management. But then that gets into the psychological aspect of how many times do you want to grab your star player by the back of his pants and hold him back financially. That doesn't always play out well in the long run. Daniil Hunter, who's had a monster season, they're due to pay him

or he's due to get paid. Where is that going to go? Is Harrison Smith hanging it up for real? Were the progressions of Bynum and Murphy, were these just aberrations? Were these Brian Flores magic tricks? Is he going to be back? Is that sustainable? Are they going to draft? And what are they going to draft and invest on the defensive side of the ball? Because even if they don't go the Cousins route, if they go a middling free agent route, if they go the draft and cousins route, if they go a middling free agent route,

if they go the draft and developing route that's going to take patience, you're going to be leaning more on your defense going forward. So how is the identity of the team going to take shape with how they dictate the future of that position? Where is the future going to be at your defensive coordinator position? And how are you going to investigate or invest limited funds to stars that are due to get paid and who's those decisions that are made how is that going to influence what you're drafting what you're developing what you're what you're going to try to nab in free agencies i mean these are all the these are not new off-season questions that teams face they're're new questions that the Vikings are facing, and they're new questions that this particular regime,

going into its third year, are going to be facing. You're going to see a lot of identity shifting, I think, this off-season for the Vikings. I could definitely see the ownership of the team watching these backup quarterbacks throw four interceptions or score three points and saying, gosh, it was a lot better with Kirk Cousins. And that is of course true. Kirk Cousins is one of the 15 greatest people throwing a football on planet earth. So that is an important thing to factor that they

have a guy that is very good. But when we look at the totality of Kirk Cousins as the Vikings quarterback, it always comes down to one particular issue, which is how do you build a roster strong enough to compete for a Super Bowl? The goal isn't to feel better about your quarterback play. The goal is to win a Super Bowl. And when I looked through over the last few years, I went through a bunch of the franchises who moved on from quarterbacks that were expensive or older, and a lot of them ended up working out pretty well that they moved on. And Carson Wentz is a good example. He wasn't older, but he was expensive. And when the Eagles- Joe Flacco. Jalen Hurts. Yeah, right. Joe Flacco to Lamar Jackson. When the Eaglesagles jalen hurt yeah right joe flacco to to lamar jackson when the

eagles drafted jalen hurts people were baffled why are they drafting jalen hurts they've got this quarterback who's pretty good and remember carson wentz went nine and seven they didn't have great receivers but the economics game of the nfl is where it is mostly won and lost is who can build a more complete roster. And we're seeing this, I think even more now in the NFC where there's no Rogers, there's no drew breeze. It's all about everything that you have around the quarterback and the Vikings have a lot to give around a quarterback, but they don't have an elite defense and they've got a lot of things that they need to replace. even some on the offensive side. We could just assume, oh, Dalton Reiser will just come back.

He had a 90 pass blocking grade the other day, by the way. And he could cost $8 to $10 million a year. I'm sure that's what he's going to be seeking because that's around what his peers are making. If you move on from Kirk Cousins, you could do that. A No. three wide receiver, a good number three wide receiver in free agency costs money. We didn't see anything from Jalen Naylor this year. He was mostly hurt to suggest that he could be that guy. So that's what, 12 to $15 million if you want a good one. And you mentioned Daniil Hunter, another safety,

like, are you asking Josh Metellus to now go play traditional safety after playing this hybrid type of role where he's really thrived if harrison smith retires i mean i don't know that he's going to there's just a lot and will flores be back and what does that mean for the whole unit right right exactly and that's going to add but either way whether flores is back or not you have to spend money on this defense and you have to add talent. Even if that means, you know, bringing back Jordan Hicks for another year or whatever, these things are going to cost money. So that makes it once again, the same discussion as when you bring back Kirk Cousins and he takes up a huge, whether it's 30 or 40, it doesn't really matter. It's still way more than it would be for a rookie quarterback contract.

So I think that it's like backup quarterbacks break our brains and make us beg for competent quarterback play. And it's easy to forget a lot of the other things that have happened here. So if you were to predict right now, Murph, what they do at quarterback, and this, we are a long way from this actually being decided, but we're getting closer to them having to make a decision. What do you think they do? Well, I think it's going to, I think the only way they bring Cousins back is if he agrees to take a haircut. And I'd love to be privy to that conversation because he has leveraged and maximized his bargaining power, his position, his potential, his projections to get every cent he could out of the Vikings. And you know what? I credit him because I'm never going to take sides with management in the long haul fight for billions of dollars and millions

of dollars. The billionaires will always win. So I always, you know, these guys are sacrificing their minds, their bodies, and they're putting themselves out there. I am all for them maximizing their potential and their worth when it comes to guaranteed money in this NFL world. But Cousins has been in fortunate places and been able to maximize leverage that few other players, especially quarterbacks, peaking at the way he has. So I'm wondering, coming now that he's, again, he's north of 35, he's coming off a major injury, and we know players can come back from these injuries but it's I'd be curious what the Vikings set as his value I'd be curious what his camp views his value is and I'm going to be curious what that value how that value is going to be measured how much guaranteed money

term of contract is it going to be the no trade clock you know I don't know what they can lard up these deals for on a maximum veteran contract right now. But is Cousins going to seek the best opportunity? Because that's probably going to be elsewhere financially. Is he going to seek the best opportunity for him to perhaps win? I think the Vikings can make a case for being in that conversation with the offensive pieces that they have, the investments they make. If we're to believe the relationship that he and O'Connell have developed over the last two seasons, that he's felt appreciated, the locker room has galvanized around him. It seemed obvious from the comments Jefferson made the other day while not directly pushing Nick Mullins under the bus, he was nudging him in saying that Kirk Cousins is

likely going to make that pass at the goal line. These are all things that come into consideration. So I think the only way Cousins comes back is if he realizes, you know, that extra 10 million might not be as worth as much as my security here, my family situation here, the fact that my neighbors have been snowblowing my lawn for four years, the fact that Kirko Chains has kind of taken off. He's kind of established himself a little bit as the hokey, Kohl's cash shopping, you know, milk chugging, dad joking guy. But it seems like he's endeared himself more to the fan base and the locker room in the last year, year and a half than was possible. And as you mentioned, a lot of absence, making a lot of hearts grow fonder.

But again, the only way he comes back is if he takes a haircut. What's the significance of that haircut? Will the Players Association lean on him hard not to take that haircut? It's going to come down, I think, more to Cousins' decision maybe than it will the front office at this point. Folks, I hope you've enjoyed listening to us talk about prize picks this year, but if you've missed it, here's how it works. You go to prizepicks.com and it is simple. You pick either more or less between two and six players stat

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One of the reasons I like PrizePicks, it is very simple to use. You'd see how we do it on the show real quick and easy. And then we talk about our picks and also not expensive either. You can turn $10 into 250 by nailing just a couple of picks. So go to prizepicks.com slash purple, the code purple daily fantasy sports made easy. From his perspective, there's going to be teams that are interested. And I noticed, and I, you know,

I saw a headline about Aaron Rogers when it was more or less announced that he was not going to be able to come back with his Achilles injury, which no kidding. We all knew that the whole time, yet he did this tour of, I might come back. No, you were never going to come back. There's no molecule of oxygen Aaron Rodgers will not find to suck up. I know.

And I saw, but the headline was like, well, Kirk Cousins isn't doing this. And I was like, wasn't he on the Manning cast? You know, I mean, he's sort of doing the same thing in a different way, in a much more polite way and less in a maniac way. But he is out there and telling people that he's perfectly on schedule and ahead of the game and everything else, which every athlete says they're ahead of schedule all the time. So you wonder, is that really true or is that just the schedule?

I'm not saying he won't recover. I would say, though, that Brian O'Neill got hurt and it was gone for a very long time. And then even this year, I think that as the season has gone along, that it has impacted O'Neill and he didn't even have a bad version of an Achilles tear. It wasn't even the full complete Achilles. This is a very difficult injury to come back from. Their medical people will know where he stands in that actual rehab rather than what's kind of being said. But with him saying that, I wondered, and again, like you said, don't blame him for playing the game, but I wondered if he's speaking to everybody who might make offers.

Like Kirk's ahead of schedule, Atlanta, Pittsburgh. What do you think? I mean, even the Raiders. If the Raiders have Kirk Cousins yesterday, they blow out the Chiefs. I mean, so there will be teams that will make offers. And if you're Kirk Cousins and you have any pride at all, you can't take less than Derek Carr. You can't take less than Daniel Jones. That is, to me, just a fact of life. So we'll see. Yeah. We'll see what

happens. I just think it's important for them to remember that backup quarterbacks we're talking about. If you ranked all 64 active quarterbacks in the NFL, like to start the season, Josh Dobbs would be like number 58 and Nick Mullins would be like number 62. Like we're talking about, and this is where I look at it the other way. Like these guys won games with Justin Jefferson and Jordan Addison and TJ Hawkinson and, and Brian Flores. Like if you can win some games with these guys, maybe you should believe that other quarterbacks could also throw the ball to Justin Jefferson as long as they, you know, don't throw four picks. So let's get into this, this week though, because they're playing the Packers. It's staying on Sunday night football. What do you think the

feeling is Murph? I look at the podcast numbers all the time and I get an idea of what the feeling is from a lot of people, which is bleep this team. That's, that's, that's the sense that I get an idea of what the feeling is from a lot of people, which is bleep this team. That's the sense that I get. It's over. They lost to Detroit, a game that they maybe could have won at the end there. And that was sort of the dream dying. But I also think that the dream really died in Chicago or against Chicago at U.S. Bank Stadium when people kind of realized this backup quarterback thing is not going anywhere. And yet I want to be excited about this game. It's Vikings, it's Packers,

it's New Year's Eve. The atmosphere should be really great. How are you feeling? Well, because it is the Packers, because it is New Year's Eve, I think from the fan base, you know, you can extend your denial maybe a little bit more for another week. I think you mentioned is what is the is it the New York Times? Is it 25 percent? What's the playoff makeability ratio right now? Twenty five. It's about it's about 25 percent, but it's really based on the fact that the machine doesn't think they're going to win both games, because if they win both games, then they have I think it's like a 90% chance of getting in. Things can change.

Other results can impact this, but they have some tiebreakers that will help them if they win two games. Yeah, and just glancing at Seattle's schedule and the Rams' schedule, I mean, both of those teams look like they're in the driver's seat going forward. I mean, they obviously need those teams to lose. From a fan base standpoint, though, I would hang in for another week only because at the very least you get bragging rights with your border rival, right? Even if you win this game and get eliminated, or if you win this game and your chances still maybe even somehow crumble because of what happens around you or the reality is staring you in the face that this is not going to work out well. The fact that you can actually basically permanently eliminate your struggling border rival while, you know,

fanning the smoldering embers of your playoff chances on New Year's Eve at home, it is the final home game of the season. We know that the Vikings are not going to be playing another game at US Bank Stadium. There's enough meat on the bone there to nibble, I think, for a week. And, you know, I'm not saying, you know, we'll find out if they go with Hall. Obviously, the headline they're considering Hall seems like a no-brainer. I'm sure they've been considering Hall for the past six weeks as well. I don't think it's going to make a difference. You're going to get haphazard quarterback play. You're going to get mistake-filled quarterback play. You're going to get

eye-gouging quarterback play, whether you put in Hall, whether you put in Mullins. The one argument is Hall looked okay on his opening drive against Atlanta. Hall looked competent. You did draft him. You did invest in him. He is your commodity, so to speak, whereas Mullins is more of a placeholder. I'm not sure either one of them gives you a better chance to win against the Packers. You're probably going to defeat the Packers because Jordan Love self-emulates or the Packers lose the game more than you're going to win. It doesn't mean you shouldn't get excited for it. And, you know, what happens, though, is I think we're losing sight a little bit. If they do happen to beat Green Bay, a lot of what their playoff chances are going to hinge on may be what decisions Dan

Campbell and the Detroit Lions make for week 18. What's going to be at stake for them? They got a huge game against Dallas this week. If a loss puts them firmly in that number three seed, if a win doesn't still give them a chance to advance, I don't have the math in front of me. You can tell me maybe a little bit more, but it may be just based on what Campbell and the Lions are doing for week 18 that gives the Vikings perhaps a chance if they're resting some starters, but that's way down the road. I would say hang in there for this week because you can't look away anyway. You may end up getting a look at Hall. You may end up getting a look at Hall. You may end up getting a look at Hall even if he doesn't start.

You're going to see what you can get out of Mullins again. I think it's going to be an ugly game, and at the very least, the blood alcohol level in that stadium is going to be through the roof. So everybody's going to be in a reveling mode, and I guess if you can put down your arch rival and eliminate them and hang around for a low percentage chance against a team that may end up benching some starters. You know, I wouldn't invest heart and soul into this game, but just maybe a little bit of your time and energy. And again, we just can't look away. We almost have to see how this ugly Frankenstein season does play out just to kind of put a bow around it. If it wasn't the Packers and it wasn't at night and it wasn't at New Year's Eve, I wouldn't

really be paying much attention to the pregame intrigue. So there was a minute there with Josh Dobbs after the New Orleans game where even myself, I said, maybe they could be a little bit dangerous. We knew that Dobbs would have his down moments, but because of his scrambling ability and the weapons that they have and everything else, and the way the defense was playing that they might be a team that other teams don't want to face the playoffs.

That is not true anymore with TJ Hawkinson out, DJ Wanam out, Jordan Addison is unclear, but doesn't sound like that's going. Yeah. We haven't even touched upon these potentially devastating injuries. Right. Right. So that also lowers your odds more. I can give you the scenarios. I'll give you those in just a second, but that Flickr went away against the bears.

And then when they benched Dobbs, it was officially RIP Nick Mullins. Again, like the first half of Cincinnati, you could just feel the like, maybe, oh, no, no, no, like that just keeps happening. And yet, and yet, here's how it stands right now. By the New York Times playoff odds simulator machine 3000 or whatever. If the Vikings lose this game, their playoff odds drop to 13%. So you could say 99 to the season. If they lose this game, if they win this game, it's still alive. Even if they lose against the lions at about 25%, if they win both games, it is 97%.

So it really comes down to, do you win both games? Can you win both games? And despite all the times where we thought it was over, we thought it was over at 0-3. We know they can win both games. Yes, we know they can win both games. We thought it was over at 0-3. we thought it was over at 0-3 we thought it was over at 1-4 and every time they have walked up to that line of like okay now it's definitely

over if they lose against the Raiders it's probably over right there and yet they kick a game-winning field goal at the end and so here you stand going against Joe Barry's defense in Green Bay, which just allowed 30 points to the Carolina Panthers. And I will say that Jordan Love is playing a lot better football than he was the last time. And now they're going to have to do it without DJ Wanham. Byron Murphy is banged up. Poor Harrison Phillips, man. What a gritty performance, but also probably should not have been playing. He was the lowest graded PFF player for the Vikings because he was just hurt.

And there wasn't a whole lot that they could do to stop the run there. Like, I don't have a lot of confidence that they can win this game because that team has all their players and your team doesn't, including Hawkinson and Addison. But it's so funny how this season, no matter how many times we've declared it over, is not over. Do you think if we polled 10,000 Vikings fans, maybe that makes your math too hard, how about 1,000 Vikings fans, how many would say they'd rather them just lose the next two games and get a draft pick?

501. I'll just bet a dollar, Bob. It depends on which 1 which thousand fans they are your our subscribers or the uh i mean are we talking about the ones that are always with a three to five year plan or the ones that are just looking at you know both feet in front of them because you can make it just a random sampling just like go go to go to best buy, stop, you know, stop by five grocery stores and ask just random Vikings fans. Would you rather see them lose the next two games or make the playoffs? I, you know, I think that a lot, I mean, it's, it's even a hard thing for me because of

course the draft pick is going to be the most important, but making the playoffs, maybe the playoffs would really be some kind of accomplishment. It would be an incredible accomplishment considering this is just one of those years where they have taken punch in the face after punch in the face. And now with Hawkinson and Addison Hurt, if they were able to beat these two teams, it would be wild. Yeah, and I don't know, what does 7-10 get them compared to 8-9, 9-8 in terms of draft order? You know, you were pounding the, you know, the pavement and the table with your shoe six to eight weeks ago when that was a question that you had to really consider then, you know, when Cousins goes out on whatever it was, October 30th, October 29th, that's when you start adding up the wins and losses and maybe figuring out where you could you know leverage your

best draft position today it's it's what one or two spots on the ladder i mean depending oh it's big it's what is what is seven and seven and ten compared to nine and eight going to do for him so getting in the playoffs puts you at the back of the line yeah that's getting in the playoffs so if you get in the playoffs you're like 20th at best. And if you go seven and 10, they could be flirting with a top 10 pick depending on the way everything else plays out. It's actually a lot of spots. That's, that's why I ask if it was like two spots, I, you know, whatever, who cares. But in this case, if you are, if you lose the next two games, you are within shouting distance of trading up for a top quarterback.

If you are in the playoffs, you are sitting at like 20th. It would be an amazing accomplishment for the coaching staff because winning these next two games is going to be extremely, extremely hard. But it's hard to deny what we were just talking about with the quarterback situation. This could be one of those moments that we look back on for years ago. Well, Hey, they, they lost those two games and that's how they got Jane Daniels and won those three Superbowls or they missed out on that opportunity because they beat Jordan love. And then Teddy Bridgewater played in the final week and the, you know, you know what I mean? Yeah, no, it's, that's what you're right. That's what it's going to feel like. You're going to get that temporary, you know, boost of energy by beating your arch rivals on New Year's Eve at home on national television and permanently eliminating them. you know, an impossible feat and a fine, fine badge of honor for your outgoing defensive coordinator, Brian Flores, to burnish his head coaching resume. And boy, what a job Kevin O'Connell

did from keeping the locker room from coming apart. But now you're, you know, you're drafting 21st and the 2026 Vikings would like to have that last week in December back. Thank you very much. And such is the history of the Minnesota Vikings. It seems, let me ask you one more thing. So you're a Detroit native. The Detroit lions are champions of the NFC North. They just a couple of years ago decided to go all the way to the bottom, rebuilt their roster. And boy, do they have a lot of talent on that roster. Now that's not, it's not a pro tanking discussion, but the green Bay Packers seem like they have their quarterback. Now there it's been a little bit of a roller coaster for Jordan love, but he's had more good games than bad games. And their receivers have started to come alive a bit. They've started to work the offense around

him and no doubt they're going to go into the offseason this year looking for more wide-receiving talent and probably fire their defensive coordinator and so forth. And the Chicago Bears have won some games under Matt Eberflus, but still very much in line to draft No. 1 Caleb Williams. What is your feeling on where the Vikings rest among three teams that now, suddenly, after being a horrible division last year, have an argument for being the best team in, like you said, 2026, the best team of the future in the NFC North?

The Vikings, I would say, are fourth in that discussion. Now, obviously, golf is aging by the day, almost by the minute for Detroit, but I mean, their window, I don't think is necessarily one or two years if they even, they could go out and do the old, let's grab a veteran quarterback, because we still have the pieces around us, including a pretty high powered offense. I think the Vikings obviously face the most difficult decisions, and they generally put themselves in the position of having these difficult decisions because they have been a 50 plus year sustained franchise of constantly looking to stay in contention. In my lifetime here in Minnesota, I've never looked at the Vikings as a two to five year type planning team. They always seem to have that, especially at the quarterback position. They always feel like they have certain pieces

in place elsewhere to stay competitive, to kind of keep that standard of excellence going. But you can make a compelling argument. It's been 46 years since they've been in a Super Bowl, let alone to have never won one. And what has that gotten you? So by fighting as hard, spending as much money as they have, draft capital, emotional capital, financial capital,

to stay competitive, to stay in contention for division titles year after year, even after double-digit loss seasons, compared to these other teams that have made either quick decisions at the quarterback position, sustained decisions in their drafting and building, and finally now seem to have stability in their front office and in their coaching ranks. I'm talking about Detroit. Chicago may be in for another upheaval. I look at the Vikings as having the most complicated decisions to stay relevant, but this is not a position that's been new for the franchise. So it is new for this regime, though. Not new for the ownership group, but for this front office to make the decision

and have to make that sales pitch to Ziggy and Mark Wolf. We may be pretty bad here for a year or two. Are you willing to turn the other way and let that develop, or are you going to insist on patching it together to sustain that competitive standing that the franchise has had for decades? That's going to be the most compelling thing I'm going to see, but I don't think the Vikings are in a great position in the division. We were saying this last year. We thought it was going to completely flip, probably more to a Chicago-Detroit top-heavy rotation with Rodgers on his way out and all of the growing pains that the Packers were going to have with Love and, of course, the week-by-week inconsistencies of the Vikings.

Well, now it looks like Chicago may be blowing that up again. Love has shown enough in his first year on a very young team to look like he's ascending. The Vikings are going to have to make some very difficult decisions just to sort of maintain level ground. Yeah, you know, I think there is an idea that if you draft quarterback, your team is going to be bad the following season because he's a rookie, but it's not, I mean, the Vikings can give a quarterback more of a CJ Stroud situation than they would a Bryce Young situation. Like Bryce Young inherited the worst roster in the league in Carolina. Whereas CJ Stroud saw immediate success because it was actually like a low key, good situation with a good play caller and better receivers than we thought. And the offensive line is held up. And of course, CJ Stroud is awesome, but we've seen

throughout history, whether it's big Ben or Dak Prescott or Brock Purdy, that if you can give a rookie the right situation, that it doesn't necessarily have to mean that the team's going to be terrible. Are you competing for a Superbow Bowl in the first year? Probably not. But are you competing for a Super Bowl if you just bring back Kirk anyway? I'm not entirely sure that you are. So I look at it as that is the fear. The fear is that you draft the guy who's bad and then the season goes totally sideways and it's ponder and it's a nightmare and whatever, which is a possibility. And that's what everyone is always afraid of. The other side of that is you get your quarterback and then you have all these pieces in place and four or five years to build around that guy and the money to do it right with

the money to do it. And you look around, you know, you look at the Eagles situation with Jalen Hurts that first year that he started, they were nine and eight. And even you could look at the Eagles situation with Jalen Hurts that first year that he started, they were nine and eight. And even you could look at Jordan Love. And I know that Jordan Love's been around a little longer, but an inexperienced quarterback comes in and their team is competitive. Like, would you take a draft pick quarterback and the Packers season where there's some up and downs, but you walk out of the season saying, we've got our quarterback, you absolutely would. So there's a lot to still be determined it feels like a lot of people have just said ah don't care about this season anymore

i'll watch i'll watch in the background of my new year's eve party but who cares and yet the implications of these final couple games and the ripple effects butterfly effects are absolutely massive and guess who's gonna be here to break it down? Me and you after New Year's Eve games. So I assume, like, right, we'll be good to go. I'm good to go, New Year's. We can do it in the morning. I mean, my reveling days have waned at New Year's Eve. So I'll be fully functional in the morning.

All right. Well, I do fear, though, that as the ball drops, it'll be intercepted. Right. OK. They should be off the field by 11 p.m. central time, right? Yeah, I think so. Hopefully I'll be there at the stadium, I think past midnight. So I'll be celebrating while podcasting i think but you're gonna have a contact buzz i can only imagine the collective blood alcohol level of that building on sunday night it's gonna be something so i look forward to that so thank you murph uh for doing this and we will talk to you all again very soon