Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Vikings fall to Bengals on a bad tush push

Episode Date: December 16, 2023

Matthew Coller and Dane Mizutani of the Pioneer Press break down the Minnesota Vikings' shocking overtime loss in which they moved the ball effectively with Nick Mullens but ultimately failed on a bizarre tush push twice in overtime against the Cincinnati Bengals Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome inside of the press box at Cincinnati, whatever they call the stadium. Matthew Collar here along with Dane Mizzutani. Apologize right off the bat that my voice is a little froggy, but we're going to power through, just like the Vikings did not do here in Cincinnati. They fall apart, blow a two-score lead in the fourth quarter or in the second half of the game,

and end up losing 27-24 to the Cincinnati Bengals. And it is a hard decision of exactly where to start and what to take away from this game, because I think that a lot of people want to begin with the tush push at the end, and the lack of success of the tush push. And I guess I could take you through what Kevin O'Connell said, if everybody wants that, that they had Brandon Powell on the field because they wanted 11 personnel. They were hoping to get some lighter personnel from the Cincinnati Bengals. I guess that might be overthinking it to me a little bit, but fair enough. You got to be able to get an inch and maybe Nick Mullins isn't the best person to run that play because you have Ty Chandler who has had a really good game, but he said, didn't really want him to have

to take a snap, turn around that if the Bengals get penetration there, Chandler could lose yardage. Personally, that would have been my choice because Ty Chandler had a great game here today in Cincinnati. And the hard part of this D Dane, is that the Vikings moved the football extremely well throughout the day. They had two terrible interceptions from their quarterback, who has been for his entire career interception prone, which was discussed leading up to the game by everybody about how many picks he had thrown. So not a terrible surprise that he would throw the interceptions, though one of them is one of the worst picks that I've ever seen in my entire life. And that's why they lost, mostly.

And then also on the defensive side, Brian Flores' defense, week after week after week, has been asked to make every single stop. And when they don't make one against Chicago, you lose. And when they don't make one against chicago you lose and when they don't make one here today you lose and really the whole second half though they allowed things to happen and then some great players made some great plays so there's going to be a lot of discussion of the coaching the play call at the end in overtime you know maybe other decisions that we could get through that people will bring up in the comments section and so forth.

But I thought that overall their game plan, especially revolving it around Ty Chandler, was extremely effective. And when you look at the box score and the yardage, gosh, they move the ball up and down the field all day long against the very mediocre Cincinnati Bengals defense. And then they were not able to stop Jake Browning in the biggest moments of this game. And that doesn't mean that Brian Flores isn't doing a great job or that the defense is suddenly terrible after being great for the entire season. But when I look at this game, I am going to look at it as here are the opportunities that were missed. There were third down stops where, including at the end of the game, where if you get a stop, you might be able to still win it.

But instead, Jake Browning rolls out and finds a guy. And there's a third and 21 where he gets the ball to Jamar Chase, where if you get a stop there, you very likely win the game. I don't have the win probability difference between those two plays, but if you get the third down stop, and then if you don't turn the ball over twice, if you just hand it off, if you just don't throw an interception and get a field goal, then the lead becomes insurmountable. It is the definition of this team to let other teams hang around, especially because of turnovers. And it's who Nick Mullins has always been. And it's probably what the rest of the games are going to look like.

And it depends on who has the ball last, who makes the worst turnover, whatever. That's how this is going to go with Nick Mullins. I thought it was, aside from the turnovers, about the 98th percentile of what I thought they could do offensively, but none of that matters now because getting to the playoffs just got a whole heck of a lot harder. So take any of that and take off with it dane wherever you want to go yeah i i want to start with mullins um because i understand everyone's frustration with the play calling in overtime i really think no matter what happened um if unless they obviously

got the first down won the game then koc is probably a god to some people but if they hand the ball off to Chandler there and he loses a yard, people are saying, why aren't you going quarterback sneak? Why aren't you going quarterback sneak? So I don't really need to dive into the play calling in overtime because it just didn't work. You need to get literally like three or four inches and you can't, and you probably don't deserve to win a game if you can't do that in the biggest moment. But why I want to start with Nick Mullins is because I think that there was this almost like facade of Nick Mullins heading into this week from people who grew frustrated with Josh Dobbs. It was Nick Mullins is going to come in here. He's going to follow the rules. He's going to

manage the game. And i fell for this trap too you look at nick mullen stats over the course of his career when he's been asked to be a starter at no point has he really shown he is a quote-unquote game manager he's a gunslinger um you know and that's kind of who he is at its core but i thought given two years in this kevin o'connell system playing behind kirk, learning to play it safe in certain scenarios that he was going to be able to manage the game. But you kind of are who you are at your core. And who Nick Mullins is, is a guy who, when you get into the red zone, instead of checking down, throwing the ball out of the back of the end zone, he's going to scramble around and try and make something happen. And we saw that later in the game. It worked. They scored a touchdown. Jordan Addison, everyone in the press box is screaming, throw the ball out of the back of

the end zone. Nick Mullins throws it to Jordan Addison because he said he looked like he saw Jordan Addison boxing a guy out. So he wanted to give him a chance. That's who he is. That's how his brain is wired. And it's also why he threw two interceptions, backbreaking interceptions earlier in the game. One on a route to Justin Jefferson, where he really said he thought he saw something come open and he wanted to give Jefferson a ago, maybe the worst interception I've ever seen. It's late in the second half. The Vikings have an opportunity to kick a field goal. And Nick Mullins, while falling to the ground and taking a sack, decides that he wants to try and throw the ball away to nobody. So instead, he throws the ball away or attempts to,

throws it into B.J. Hill's stomach, and it ends up going down as another interception so when you you take this game away and you know you strip it down to the studs the Vikings had 424 yards of offense they show they can move the ball with Nick Mullins but I don't think this is something that you're going to just fix who this guy is who who is a guy who's going to take chances, who's a guy who's going to turn the ball over. And in a lot of ways is going to look like the guy that frustrated you into making a quarterback change, which was Josh, Josh Dobbs. I think Nick Mullins, at least you can hold onto the fact that they, they looked competent on offense. I know people are going to be upset with, with the play calling, but they did have 424 yards of offense.

Nick Mullins had 303 yards of passing, two touchdowns. But those two interceptions are the things that I'm going to hold on to because I think those are things moving forward. Those two interceptions that could play out on Christmas Eve against Detroit, on New Year's Eve against the Packers, and the final game of the season against Detroit on the road. It looked exactly like what Nick Mullins box scores from San Francisco tell you that he looks like, which is 23 interceptions and 17 career starts. And then he throws two more. So that means 25 in 18 career starts. I mean, that is where like Jameis Winston is the only guy who was really a starter at one point who could throw that many interceptions and then wasn't a starter anymore. And it's, so it's very, you know, we made the comparison of Ryan Fitzpatrick to

Josh Dobbs, where he was like so hot at one point and then so cold. And even within a game, we felt that from Nick Mullins, where there were some great throws in this game. I mean, Jordan Addison goes over 100 yards. He had kind of a bounce back after that mini little slump, maybe hitting the rookie wall. But Addison was all world today. I mean, making catches all over the place. The one touchdown that he catches is not a great throw, more of just kind of a bailout. Whoop, somebody take the ball away from me and makes a great shoestring catch, takes it for a touchdown.

Where Mullins says that he sees him boxing him out i don't know how he sees that i think he just put the ball up somewhere randomly you can't throw that jordan as no absolutely not you cannot make that throw but he's gonna make that throw and the rest of the way is going to rest purely on whether that throw lands in the hands of Jordan Addison or not, because that's who you're playing with as a starting quarterback. And here's the thing that we're going to battle with again on the postgame show, which we've been going through with every loss is the number of people who are like gaining in this groundswell of Kevin O'Connell doesn't know what he's doing well for one i will say the quarterback sneak is like an 80 plus success play and if you run it twice with

just about anyone i'm not even talking about the tush push which is more than 90 but just across the league it's like 75 plus percent so if you run it twice you assume that it's supposed to work but if they win this game and come away with 425 yards of total offense i mean we're looking at it going you know what like he's going to turn the ball over but they can make up for it with justin jefferson making big plays addison i thought tj hockinson came through and by the way they might have a star in the backfield who just had to figure out how to play. But Ty Chandler had an incredible game today. I mean, suddenly you have a screen game that works. Suddenly you have explosive plays out of the backfield. And maybe you could

argue that this was there all along with Ty Chandler. Also, you could say that his development has come along and we've reached the point where he's ready to take on this role. And I don't need to see a whole heck of a lot of Alexander Madison again after this. And that, you know, this could transfer over to the future and even to next year. But the coaching part of it seems to be where everybody wants to focus. And that's what's hard is they drew up a game plan that put up over 400 yards with the fourth quarterback that you're playing. And on the defensive side, I haven't seen a single person in my mentions or in the comments saying that the defense melted down today. And that's weird to me because that's exactly what happened.

I mean, yeah, they didn't convert a first down on fourth down, which is, hey, look, how random is the spotting of the football? And Kevin O'Connell, by the way, said that the referees did take another look at it in the booth or whatever on the spot of the first one. But if randomly they decide it's four inches farther, maybe, I mean, very likely we're talking about a Vikings win and going back and like, here they go to the playoffs. So I think that their game plan overall was very good to use Ty Chandler the way that they did. They ran the football a lot. There were a few times that he trusted Nick Mullins, maybe more than I thought that he should have like on the third downs where, you know, he ends up with the two interceptions. In fact, I said to you right before the second interception, I was like, just give it to Chandler and kick a field goal here.

And you're like, no, go for it. Ended up being interception. But we're always right and wrong throughout the game. But that was sort of a funny moment. But overall, how much more can you ask of the offense with Nick Mullins? You have to get a stop against Jake Browning, who is their backup quarterback, who, by the way, had three points in the third quarter, late in the third quarter. So I just, I mean, they need a stop somewhere from the defense.

And to me, they've just asked the defense to do so much that the levy was going to break eventually. Yeah, it's weird, right? Because we talk about Nick Mullins and how he is limited in what he does and how he is going to be turnover prone. Yet, like you said, the game plan that Kevin O'Connell, who everyone hates now apparently, put together generated, with the help of Ty Chandler in the backfield over 400 yards of offense. So I get it. Like there were things that left some things to be desired down the stretch. But that's every game we can nitpick every single game. I don't think people want to be honest with themselves and say like the guy who everyone's been parading is maybe he should be the head coach instead of koc brian flores like his and this is not what before i say this i don't want to this is not a takedown on brian flores what he's done with this defense is incredible but the fact that there is no sort of

like accountability from the certain people you know when we talk about this game and zoom out it's just because this is kind of how it goes after losses in the NFL. You need a scapegoat and people have decided over the course of this up and down stretch over the last two months that Brian Flores is a hero and Kevin O'Connell is always going to be the one who bears the brunt of the blame to a degree fair. He's the head coach. So I get it. But if we watch this game and really digest this game and and don't question some of the things that the defense did then what are we even doing because

like when push comes to shove a defense that did not allow a touchdown for two and a half games basically and that's including this half allowed a touchdown a touchdown and a touchdown, and a touchdown to close the game. The Vikings were up 17-3. They were rolling. Probably should have been up more if Nick Mullins hadn't thrown those two interceptions in the red zone. The only way you lose that game when you're up 17-3 is if the defense busts, and it did.

It did in the fourth quarter. 21 points in the fourth quarter. A couple of just incredible plays plays that like like t higgins catch over caleb evans and stretch the other way one of the coolest things i've ever seen um so there's some things that you have to just kind of chalk up to like tip your hat to the other guys but what you were saying a few minutes ago is like when they needed to stop they did not get it they didn't get it on third and 21 in the fourth quarter. When you, if you force a punt or a field goal there, you probably win 24 yards of Jamar chase bang a third and nine and overtime.

You know, you, you force a punt there. The worst you could probably do is tie unless Nick Mullins throws an interception. You know, it was like a 35 yard game to Tyler Boyd on a, on a backside dig that I think Byron Murphy said he got his fingertips on and it still ended up going into Tyler Boyd's hands. But the defense is a large reason they lost this game. So we can hold on to whatever we want to from the overtime, the, you know,

the back-to-back quarterbacks need cause maybe they should have given it to Ty Chandler. Maybe they should have been a little more creative in that stretch. But when the Vikings needed a stop today, they didn't get it. And it's hard to kind of just place the blame on that side of the ball because they've been so good for a month. And like you said, sometimes the levy just breaks. But that was the difference today. It was Nick Mullins throwing two interceptions in the first half,

and it was the defense melting down down the stretch. And the difference is also that their playmakers made some incredible plays. And there were even some plays that got taken away from them as well from Cincinnati or that they, like Higgins, early in the game drops the ball. But he makes one of the great plays that I've ever seen in person with that catch. Because when you saw the ball go up, it was like,

okay, this he's throwing out of bounds. I didn't even think that he was trying to throw it to T Higgins. I thought he was just trying to throw it away in that spot. And the ball went up so high in the air. I have no idea how T higgins even turned around spotted the ball went back to the ball grabbed it with his hands i mean he didn't just bring it in i mean he snatched it randy moss style with his hands and then reaches out which is funny because

jefferson tried that earlier this year the ball bounced out of the back of the end zone and this time on the viking side of it t jiggins catches it brings it in for a touchdown i mean so that uh alone is an incredible play that you know he gets positioned on a caleb evans but it this game reminds me so much including that play of what happened in denver where when we go through the whole picture of things it's like i think you outplayed them overall, but yet on a third and 21 Jamar chase goes up and makes a great catch and then runs for a first down. And then, you know, at the end of the game, it's what is it? Second and long. And they just kind of heave a ball up and then T Higgins makes an incredible play. It was like everything that

they needed came into place with Jake Browning and having those wide receivers, including Boyd, come across the middle and make that play at the end, even though overall the Vikings were moving the ball better. And overall they were for a lot of the day, stopping Jake Browning in the Cincinnati offense. The one thing that I have worried about for the defense throughout the season is that somebody would sort of think and dunk them. And I know I was just talking about the bigger plays that they had, but it felt like Cincinnati in the second half came out with a really good game plan to go underneath, underneath, underneath, underneath. And they were getting six, seven, 12, 14. And eventually the Vikings defense seemed to get worn down. And that's what I'm talking about

where week after week, you're asking them like last week, you're asking them to pitch a shutout in order to win that game. And you're basically saying today, you have to hold them every time and not allow them to come back. And then, you know, I mean, eventually you're just going to give up some plays there. They don't have Sauce Gardner. They don't have Jalen Ramsey. They, you know, of course have Daniel Hunter, you know, but they don't have more of a rush than that. So they need to blitz. The other thing I think is, too, when it talks about like what to blame and how we analyze, it's just so much easier to blame a play call on a QB sneak than it is to go, well, you know, that coverage they played on this

play or that play that defensive play call. There's so much easier to analyze an offensive play call that goes sideways than it is an entire defensive performance. So all we could say is right now without looking back at the tape, well, it went wrong and they weren't able to make those stops. And Cincinnati did make plays. But if you're going to have a defense that drags you to victory, you're going to have to stop Jake Browning, right? And that's where, and we'll get to this, but like the last couple of games are just to me so much, so much up in the air for what's going to come next.

But I, you know, I it's, it's turnovers. It's a couple of defensive stops that don't happen. It's a QB sneak that doesn't work out. It was like the accumulation of a bunch of small events as opposed to the larger number of events, which the Vikings played better, if that makes sense. So that's why it's like a weird one to break down. Yeah, and I think that's kind of been the story of the year,

like to a degree, and a lot of their losses. Justin Jefferson, we talked to him after the game, and he talked about just the self-inflictedness of the losses this year. And this is kind of a microcosm of that. There were certain things that they did in this game that really kind of reminded you of the way they would lose early in the season. I just can't, I really can't get past those two turnovers in the first half, I guess,

is because it really feels like you're just kind of rolling and rolling and rolling. And even though you'd only put up seven points in the first half, even though you end up putting up 24 in the game, it just felt like those turnovers from Nick Mullins, those interceptions were how you like, how it goes when you don't put a team away. And this team never really has shown the ability to do that over the last year, year and a half. Um, but when you kind of get yourself behind the eight ball and you feel lucky and fortunate to be up seven, three heading into the half, um, that does put a lot of stress on, on every other area of your game to be perfect. And it kind of feels like you're chasing those points that you left on the

board. So when you hear Justin Jefferson talk about how things are self-inflicted and how it's kind of felt like that all year, this game is kind of another example of that. But I really think if you don't throw those interceptions, you kick two field goals there, you're up what 13 to three at the half, you add another touchdown or two. It is a a blowout i think this game at times today we were

sitting next to each other in the press box saying this feels like it's going to be a blowout this feels like it's on the verge of being one um and they just couldn't get that last you know swing of offensive lead going down the field and putting up points and defensively stopping the Bengals from putting up points. But when the chip from the table was 17-3, the Bengals went touchdown, touchdown, touchdown. That helped them force overtime where obviously things played out, questionable decisions got made, and here we are. And that's the hard part of the whole thing, because when we're talking about the way that the offense played

and we just go kind of like player by player, you would lead with talking about the really good performances today. I mean, Jordan Addison had one of his better games. Ty Chandler, I mean, this is a breakout moment for Ty Chandler and Nick Mullins, aside from having those Mullins-y moments. And also, let's be honest, the guy threw a pick six. It should have ended the game, but somebody was lined up offside.

So the very wild moments of Nick Mullins, aside from that, which are to be expected with your fourth quarterback, they were able to get receivers open. Justin Jefferson made plays. TJ Hawkinson made plays. I thought that early in the game there was some pressure, but I didn't think that the offensive line got run over at all, and especially in the run blocking, they were very good.

They converted screens for first downs, something that I thought you just couldn't find. It doesn't exist. I guess it was in the middle of Ohio or near Kentucky that we needed to go in order to find the screen game. And so when you go player by player, you're like, well, this guy had a good game, this guy had a good game. And Mullins, for what number of his passes,

ended up finding receivers, getting the ball out there. There's a play where he throws kind of an anticipation throw to Justin Jefferson. Jefferson's got a little bit of a double move type thing and he lets it go with anticipation and it's right there. It's really ridiculously bad decisions in the red zone that did not allow them to run away with that game early. And then they come out, you know, and they drive down the field and they score a touchdown, but you're still keeping Cincinnati in the game at that point, as opposed to feeling like you're completely blowing them away.

So when that happens, that's so much harder for me to go. Well, the QB sneak is the reason that they lost is because they made this one decision, which I think most coaches would have made to run a QB sneak at that point. You could definitely argue the Chandler should get the ball. You could definitely argue someone else should be pushing a butt cheek or whatever. But I mean, it all just seems kind of silly to me when you if you're going to win anything going forward, you have to get 24 points and then find a way to hold the other team to less. And that's really the answer to this. Because guess what?

Nick Mullins will not stop turning this football over. But I also think he's capable of creating pretty big plays with them and moving the ball. And I think it's the right decision to start him, the right decision to stick with him. And he gave you a performance that you would expect from Nick Mullins, but the turnovers were just so incredibly costly. And then on the defensive side, you just couldn't handle some of their star talent. There is a reason why Jake Browning has the numbers that he has so far this season. It's because of those receivers and because of their coach. I mean, aside from a tight end pass, which was

really silly to start the game. But other than that, I don't understand that at all. That was right under the same, like McVay runs bad trick plays. Apparently Zach Taylor does Kevin O'Connell does maybe that's the tree part of the tree there, but I didn't think that there was other game management issues with when they did what, when they called what plays, when they called their timeouts. I really can't find too much else that I'm supposed to have a problem with as far as the play calling goes, because the play calling produced over 400 yards of offense. And I don't know what play Kevin O'Connell called that said, as you're falling down,

hand the ball to BJ Hill, like a child handing it to their father. Like, just here you go, Daddy. Have the ball. Like, did he call that play? I don't think so. So Mullins naturally is going to be he's going to be wild. He's going to be out of control. But I think that he does the thing that Kevin O'Connell was talking about, which he was able to keep the offense consistently moving.

I just have so many less complaints about that than not being able to close out a game. But this also tells you exactly what we were talking about last week. When you said after they won 3-0, they could lose the rest of the games here because they're going to put in a quarterback who has all these interceptions and they're going to go to another backup. And if they need a shutout every time, or they need a last stop every time that some of those things are going to go sideways. So now guess what? Like, I think you're on the wrong side of the one score games back again.

Like the pendulum has swung the luck pendulum back and forth. And now you're on the wrong side of a one score game. And here we are. So for me, that's, that's why this is so difficult because after every loss, there's just blood, like whose blood can we, can we go after? Right. And it seems to be that the head coach has become the guy. And I'm not saying that there's no criticisms that are correct, but I just, aside from a QB sneak call, which works 80% of the time, like what's the other complaints about what happened today with the offense? Yeah, I, I, that's what I'm struggling with too. I can't find them. Um, because in, in a different reality, if they get, if the QB sneak

works, which it does 80% of the time, and maybe they gain 10 more yards and breg joseph kicks a game-winning field goal i'm curious like what what is what is what do the comments look like what do my mentions look like no one even remembers it yeah i if he gets a qb sneak for a first down which i believe he did earlier in the game too right yeah twice early in the game nobody nobody's talking about it at all yeah and so i i really think just the reaction is an emotional for one obviously from the fan base i think there always has to be someone to blame um and it's just easier to blame a decision that while you're sitting there watching the game saying oh they should have done something different when you can say that after it already played out i i really

like if if they pick up the first out the q QB sneak, no one is saying, Oh, they should have handed the ball to Ty Chandler and tried to gain more yards. It's just cause it didn't work. And that's where we're sitting at right now, Viking seven and seven. Um, yes. Were the QB sneaks a part of the story in this game? Yeah, they will. They were, and they're going to be. And the reason that Brandon Powell is the one doing the pushing can be questioned as well. But it's just everyone kind of has a little bit of blame in this loss.

And it's not just one guy. And I think there is going to always be moving forward. If they lose to Detroit on Christmas Eve, if they lose to Green Bay on New Year's Eve, if they lose to Detroit in the season finale, that snowball is going to kind of start to keep rolling for Kevin O'Connell. And I really think that's a little bit overreactive, disingenuous. He's not a bad coach. Really? Are we at that point where we think he's a bad coach? He's playing on his fourth quarterback of the year. I'm not making excuses for him.

They put up 400 yards with their fourth quarterback this year. Maybe he was the backup to start the year, but he is the fourth quarterback. They have used the scheme worked well today, two interceptions and a defensive collapse is the difference. This one's not on Kevin O'Connell. You can argue the other ones were this one isn't. And I think if we want to make the argument that it was on Kevin O'Connell after certain losses,

then we have to be careful when we do it. Cause if we just do it after every single one, then, then what, what is it? What credence does that hold moving forward? So I think it's important to zoom out. I think this is just a really an emotional reaction after a loss and give

them 24, 48 hours. Maybe the, the, the tune will change. Um, but they are seven7, heading into three games that they're probably going to be underdogs in. If you steal two of them, you can still make the playoffs.

But if you do, I don't think you really have any hopes of doing anything once you get there. You know, it just feels to me like so many losses this year have played out exactly this way. And Justin Jefferson said that to us after the game. He said like a lot of times this year, we've had that opportunity to be right there. And now when we look at the chargers in the light of day, you really go, oh man, like that's one where you should have won. I mean, you've got the ball in your hands at the goal line and you

can't end up getting it across. And then Denver, where you've got the ball in your hands at the goal line and you can't end up getting it across. And then Denver, where you've got the ball in your hands, you just need a first down and Alexander Madison fumbles it away. And then here, you just need one more field goal. You just need one more stop. You just need one more inch. And when we're talking about Nick Mullins, I mean, this is a guy who's done plenty of QB sneaks that have been successful throughout his career. And it's also a defensive line for the Bengals that didn't have their best player. I mean, DJ reader is out of that game. So of course, like that makes sense to me to attack them. Now, again, like, yeah, maybe you could say, don't go back to it or whatever else. How often do two quarterback sneaks in a row

fail? Not very often. Uh, they usually succeed. That's the thing. And that's the problem. So it's got to be, it has to be more of a broad scrutiny of a game like this. And I think last week it was more reasonable to say, Hey, if Josh jobs is going to be your quarterback, but then it would seem like O'Connell decided, okay, well, I can't game plan around Josh Dobbs. So let me go to Nick Mullins and we can operate our offense. And they did. And there was much more successful today than it was over the last couple of weeks with Josh Dobbs. Justin Jefferson was plenty involved. Jordan Addison, the playmakers are getting the ball. Ty Chandler is getting the ball. And what else are you supposed to say?

And I have repeated this every week. Every time they lose, I will continue to repeat it, that if you try to overly judge your quarterback or your coach when you have your fourth quarterback or any backup quarterback, then I think that you're going to head down some bad paths with that or some illogical paths with that. So I think you can absolutely be unhappy with the way that this played out because this felt like the final frontier in a way. They could still make playoffs.

They sure can. But it just feels a lot less likely now because you're going to have to win two out of the last three to get in. And can you beat Detroit and Green Bay in two out of these last three games when you couldn't close out Jake Browning. So then you're going to have to close out a better Packers offense, a better Detroit offense who have healthy quarterbacks. And also now we see that there is more cracks in the foundation of a defense that was clearly overachieving. And it reminds me a little bit of the way the offense

was overachieving without Jefferson. And since we just live in small sample size worlds, when that worked, it was, well, we've got to trade three firsts for Jefferson because everybody else is fine and they can make up for him. But eventually that wasn't the case. And the same with the defense where it's, well, this is fine. This is great. They can just continue to rest on this defense, and they're going to be the 2,000 Ravens, and they're going to shut out everybody and close out every game and so forth. But there is a talent differential in part between the receivers

and the corners that they're going to continue to have to improve on as we go forward in the draft and free agency and everything else, you could just see where that does pop up in a game like this. And that kind of leads us into down the stretch. So I just said, it's going to be hard to win two out of three. And yet at the same time, you're three points away here against the team that has put up a lot of points with Jake Browning. It feels to me like we're all just blowing in the wind with this team. Like at this point, we're all just along for the ride. I can take away from this game that they move the ball really well,

and if they don't have the dumbest interception in the world, that maybe they win. I can take away from it that the defense is more vulnerable than we thought. Hey, don't QB sneak next time. I get like, what am I supposed to say that they're supposed to do at this point? We know everything about them. Now there is nothing more to find out.

You either just finish it off and get to the playoffs or you don't that. Right. I mean, that's that. And, and, and almost nothing is going to change even the last three games about how I feel about anything.

I'm going to feel that flor the last three games, about how I feel about anything. I'm going to feel that Flores did an amazing job this year. I'm going to feel like they blew some games that they really should have won at the end. That last year they probably do win at the end. And this year it's gone back the other direction against them. And I'm not going to be coming on here if they miss the playoffs and lose two out of three and say what a horrible coaching performance they should fire kevin o'connell that's just not going to happen because of the circumstances that uh they've gone through so what else are we supposed to say after we have witnessed this yeah but when you look when you push forward now like like you said we know everything about this team right so

there is a world in which they win two of three knowing what we do know about this team if they can move the ball and the bangles defense is kind of middle of the pack so take what you will but 400 yards of offense if they can continue to move the ball efficiently and snap back to reality and and hopefully not give up back to back to back touchdowns to close game on defense if they can play that complementary football two of the three games are at home i think you can win but what what does it really mean because i think the end goal is always you know the super bowl and this team it clearly can't get there this year but if your goal is the playoffs and if that's what you're latching onto,

I don't think it's farfetched. I think you're, you're fair to, you're fair to hope for that. And it's not the craziest thing in the world. They could play out that way. They could absolutely win two of these final three games. They could also lose all three games. And the fact of the matter is watching this team play over the last two

years, the games are probably going to be close. They're probably going to be close against the Lions on Christmas Eve and the Packers on New Year's Eve. Who knows how the final game of the season, if it'll matter, what it'll look like. But I think the games are going to be close. I think this team, as currently constructed,

with the injuries they've suffered, with the certain talent that they do lack on you know both sides of the ball on the defensive side of the ball more than more than that I think the team is still capable of winning two games if we see them at the peak of their powers on both sides of the ball but I just struggle to kind of realize and understand like what that actually means if they get to the playoffs like i guess that's a feather in your cap if you get there in in a year that you lost your starting quarterback and you push through two months without justin jefferson and you got just a really a defensive remake on the fly from Brian Flores. And if all of that adds up to nine and eight and you make the playoffs and you

have a puncher's chance in the wild card round and maybe you win, maybe, maybe you lose. I guess that's enough. But it just, it's, it's hard to kind of think about every game post game and every game moving forward.

When it just kind of feels like the season ended when Kirk went down. So, yeah, I mean, we'll see what this, the rest of this thing looks like. But for today, I mean,

it's just kind of a, the way the season has played out as a whole. Well, and that's what I was thinking about throughout the game as they're leading. And as I'm thinking that they're going to win, even when they get a three and out stop and they get the ball in overtime. And I am thinking like, OK, well, they've got good field position and here we go. Like they're going to score here. So, you know, I'm sitting there thinking like what we're going to be saying after the game, because I'm always kind of, you know, like what are what our main topics going to be saying after the game. Cause I'm always kind of, you know, like what are our, what are our main topics going to be?

How are we going to analyze this? And of course I didn't realize they were going to fail on a QB sneak. So I was thinking of a little bigger picture stuff about how, like when you look at this offense, how few times we've seen Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison together all season long, especially the version of Jordan Addison. Who's awesome.

Not the one who's just like figuring out football. And then with Ty Chandler as well. Now, maybe there's a, Hey, uh, where's this been? Like maybe you could have used a heck of a lot of that earlier this year in Ty Chandler, because what a fantastic performance by him. And yes, I actually do think they should have turned around and handed him the ball by the way, like for the record, I'm just saying that it's an 80 play across the league when you qb sneak but with ty chandler i would have preferred that on third and fourth down the guy who's run for 100 yards the guy who's been dynamic for you and is like tough for a guy who's so fast i like him a lot and i'm looking at this group of weapons thinking yeah it's pretty good to drop a quarterback into and hey by the way how many yards did nick mullins throw for like we've swung back

and forth on will they bring back kirk and everything else this was an argument for not bringing back kirk because this quarterback nick mullins who is a career backup with five wins in 18 games just through the ball to a lot of open wide receivers throughout this day and could other people come in with this offense and this group of weapons and doing that and that's that's what i'm taught or like that's what i'm talking to myself about like all right we're going to talk about the full group of weapons and how good it looked and you get back o'neill and then you feel a little better about the pass protection and, and all those things. And by the way, we see today, the offensive line can run block. They need a running back. Who's fast as hell to fly through it. They can throw a screen. They just need a running back. Who's fast as hell to, to run, right. To get to those edges and so

forth. So, you know, so I'm looking at that. And then when they fail, I go, oh, no, because I know that's what the entire day is going to be about, is about the play calling at the end when it didn't go right and not about the sort of totality of this and what it looks like. Because I was also feeling like, well, Jordan Love showed some cracks in the foundation and the Detroit Lions have not been great. Obviously, we're recording this slash going live before the Lions play. So I don't know what's going to happen there, but they have looked a lot weaker. And so like my entire mindset was all these things that I had felt that they did well, except for the turnovers. And then the defense has these moments from Jake Browning and these receivers that just

end up costing them the game. And I don't know how, how else you can look at it. And I, and when we compare it to the Denver game, it's the same way where it's like, they were over 400 yards. They moved the ball. They were running effectively. They were passing mostly effectively. And then a fumble and a guy mossing somebody ends up being the reason that you lose. And that's why football is so hard to figure out sometimes. And so here's a different way to phrase the, I guess, reaction to this game. Like this is one of those where you go, oh man, just like your, just like yours, where it was like, if there was one more, Hey, let's try this other quarterback. And then he could take us where we want to go. And then he can make us us dangerous i thought he made them way more dangerous than dobbs did over the last couple of games

but i could i could feel the gut punch from people of this was the one that i that you wanted to win on the road at cincinnati than your driver's seat for the playoffs and you feel like you're in a really good spot to at least scare some people with Nick Mullins as your quarterback, when you walk out of it with a loss, you're 500, you're kind of exactly where we thought you would be when we started this competitive rebuild thing and not really any better. So, I mean, how are you supposed to feel about that? Like, I feel like there's wind out of the sails like it was kept alive by a 3-0 win and then it just sort of is slipping away here with one jake browning pass to tyler boyd yeah i

i think that's probably a correct way to encapsulate how the entire fan base is probably feeling um one of my best friends is a huge vikings fan and was texting me during the game and just texted me after and said that one really hurt and it it did it really hurt for for you know people watching seeing it unfold thinking they were going to win um it hurt on a micro level there but it it did hurt on a macro level when when you talk about you know what the rest of this year looks like the the like you said we're kind of flag-waving in the wind with this team. We'll go wherever the wind blows and takes us. But if they won this game, then you're moving forward at 8-6, win one of the final three games, and you're basically in the playoffs

with the way the NFC's played out. And I think there was kind of an, an element of hope that people were latching on to this season. Wasn't everything we hoped for, but if we're eight and six moving into the final month of the year and we win one game, we get to the playoffs, that's enough. Um, and then you're kind of left with just frustration when, when a game that you really feel like you should have won slips away. And then you're just kind of standing there after McPherson makes the 29-yarder being like, what the heck happened?

So, yeah, I get, you know, in a roundabout way, and it took me 45 minutes to get here, I guess, I get the emotional toil that everyone is kind of going through. I get blaming whoever you want to blame. Um, because even though if I think whether I think you're right or wrong and who you're blaming, I understand needing to kind of just throw it out and blame this on someone because it should have been a game that you won and you're eight and six heading into Christmas Eve with your family, watching that game saying, okay, just win one more, and the Vikes are going to the playoffs.

So I get it all. I understand. And there's also this part that if they make the playoffs, despite all they've gone through this year with the quarterbacks, with Jefferson being out, then wow, that is a victory considering how hard it is when you lose your quarterback for more than one or two games. And there's been the examples in the playoffs, but Carson Wentz got the Philadelphia Eagles home field advantage in the playoffs before Nick Foles showed up and did what he did in the post season. There's very, very few examples, Kurt Warner, Tom Brady, all time great quarterbacks who were on the bench that showed up, but we know that Nick Mullins is not that.

So looking at it, and we talked earlier in the week about what's a success for this team, and making the playoffs despite all you went through would have been one of the things that is a success. And winning this game would have put them so much in the driver's seat. I saw a chart of this where it was like if they win this game, like 80%, and if they lose this game, it's hovering around a coin flip to still make the playoffs.

And for all intents and purposes, I think for a lot of people, your chances may have ended here. It didn't technically, and you could definitely win, but it got a lot harder than it would have been. It would have been just win one more driver's seat. All you got to do is pull off one out of two against Detroit or beat a Packers team that is pretty mid, and then you get in the playoffs, and that's a huge success. Losing, I think, is such a gut punch to that idea of, well, I guess they're just not going to get there because even when they play a good version

of themselves offensively, a really good version for a lot of the game, they still find a way to come up short. But I also think like, it's just, it's so hard because, you know, it's so results based and it should be because that's all that matters. Like it doesn't matter. Like when they talk about process versus results, I always say versus not over because it's the results that matter. It's the result of the failed play. And so I think that when people are talking about the failed QB sneak, you say, why is Brandon Powell pushing him? I agree. Why isn't Ty Chandler getting the ball? I agree. I don't think we have to make it anything more than it was like we want

to because that's what we do. But I don't think that we have to make it anything more than it was. This was a game that you should have won. And that I like that. And that's it. And that's it's going to get to the end of the season if they miss the playoffs and go, how the hell did they miss the playoffs? They botched a lot of these games. And maybe, you know, a lot of people will be concerned about Kevin O'Connell at the

end of games and so forth, which is weird because nobody was concerned last year when they won every single one score game. But this year things haven't gone in that same way. So, you know, Jamie asks, why isn't the defense holding up? I think the defense didn't hold up today because the other team has really good players and they were on the field a lot when you turn the ball over and they're probably a really good defense but not a great great great defense which is how they looked last week or it's a week-to-week league and sometimes i mean it's a quarter to quarter league and sometimes you know the cincinnati might deserve credit for making some great plays too yeah i really think why isn't the defense holding up when you, when you look at there's one play that can totally, you know,

encapsulate why it's because T Higgins versus a Caleb Evans and T Higgins rising up and making a play and hauling in this touchdown that is going to be played over and over and over again, the rest of this week and probably moving forward because of how special a play it was, that does a good job showing the talent deficiency that's there. That's nothing against Caleb Evans. I think he's had a pretty good year. I think he's come into his own as an outside cornerback.

But there's levels to this, right? And I think the Bengals have playmakers that over the past few weeks, the Vikings haven't had to face. And as good as the Vikings were for two and a half quarters, eventually those playmakers are going to make plays. The defense, for as good as it's been, for as much of a turnaround as they've been able to kind of put forth, I think we have to remember, just because they've been good doesn kind of put forth. I think we have to remember just because they've been good doesn't mean, you know, what they were working with. I think it was always going to be a bit of an uphill battle. They've overachieved. And I think it's important to kind of realize that and take a step back and realize the last month or a month and a half, two months of the

defense, they were overachieving. There are still areas of this defense that need an infusion of talent. I think they have developed some stars along the way. I think Brian Flores deserves a lot of credit for what he's done, and obviously he gets it. But there are still certain things that when you just look at that one play of T. Higgins rising up and taking it over Caleb Evans, that shows, like, okay, they have a little bit of ways to go as far as talent goes. Yeah, no, I think that that's been the big thing of what has made this season so special for Brian Flores,

which is that he has gotten more out of the talent than we ever really expected. But that goes along with some of those moments. And the same thing with Cortland Sutton going up and catching a pass. And so often when you play these close games, because you turn the ball over in the red zone and that, you know, they had a three and out where they would have had a chance to respond after a touchdown drive by Jake Browning. But this, this was a like right on the edge and continuing to run into kind of a glass wall every time they were just about to put this game away. And then if you continue to do that, then you're not going to put it away.

And you're going to leave a receiver to make a great play against you and have a chance to win. So it's not to watch this one game and be down on Brian Flores or the defense as a whole. It deserves all sorts of credit. It's that almost no defense in the NFL is invulnerable. I think that's kind of the point, right? Is at some point they weren't just going to shut everyone out. And like that, you know, it kind of looked like it was going to go that way today until the second half. But I thought we saw a really good adjustment and something that we're probably going to see in the coming weeks, which is if you dink and dunk, which the Chargers did earlier this year, that you could probably have success. So let's talk about the bigger picture.

They get closer to a top draft pick. I'm just kidding. Sort of a little bit, not really, but kind of, they did get closer technically to a higher draft pick, but would you bet that they do or do not make the playoffs now? I don't think they make the playoffs now. And we don't have to go into how that's a good thing for a quarterback of the future. Even if, well, you think I would talk about that,

even though it definitely is. But I, I, this game felt like a gut punch to the fan base. And it didn't necessarily feel like a gut punch to the team afterwards in the locker room they didn't seem like a broken bunch they seemed frustrated but i think it could end up being that in hindsight when when you look at oh we could have been eight and six and now we're seven and seven and now we have to win two of three games

against pretty tough teams um so i just think it's too much to ask. I think Detroit has a lot to play for over the next three weeks as well. Again, this is being posted, recorded live and recorded before Detroit place. And I, so we have no idea how that's going to play out, but if they win tonight, they're going to be playing for seating.

If they lose tonight, they're going to be playing for trying to get their stuff together before what they hope to a playoff run. So you play Detroit twice. I think they're better than you top to bottom, at least talent-wise, with the injuries you've suffered this year. I do think the game on New Year's Eve between the Vikings and Packers is going to be pretty much a coin flip, a fun one in primetime. But I think when you break down everything that has to kind of happen, I know it's at its core, just two wins, but how you get to those two wins, I think it's going to be a little too much for this team. It might be, I would put it at a coin flip. Exactly. I really

don't know what's going to happen from a week to week basis, because I would not have guessed that they would put up as many yards as they did today. I would have guessed that they might turn the ball over. Maybe Kevin O'Connell can trust the running game a little bit more because he seemed to stick with the run in a lot of instances today that was something that he was struggling with before. And maybe Alexander Madison and not trusting him to get yards was a major reason for that. And I think the same thing goes for the screen game and just not like thinking that Alexander Madison could break off big plays where Ty Chandler can and adding Jefferson

and Chandler to your offense makes you pretty dangerous going forward. And that part, I think, yeah, could you beat a Detroit defense that's terrible because you have Justin Jefferson playing well and Jordan Addison doing what he did today? But I also think that if you're going to throw the ball into wild positions or, you know, trying to get rid of the ball but hand it right to the other team, also the velocity on the football is the slowest I've ever seen in person. Like today was the between the two quarterbacks, the slowest moving pro footballs I have ever seen. So that's another problem that throws could get picked off because they just don't have a lot of velocity behind them. All those things could go either way to me where your offense is more explosive because you have these other playmakers or because you just simply turn the ball over too often. You could see the defense rising to the challenge and intercepting Jordan Love and Jared Goff. You could also see them not being able to pressure Jared Goff and he sits back there and look, they didn't pressure Browning a ton in that second half. He was able to get rid of the ball because they don't have another player

outside of Daniel Hunter who's able to do that by just straight rushing. They always have to blitz. I'm running out of voice, obviously, if anybody can't tell. So I'm just grinding through this final point. Just to say that whether they make it or miss it, it's been a pretty wild season for these games where it's like every single one comes down to this final moment and then we dictate how we feel about the entire team by whether they caught the ball against the chargers whether they made a stop against jake browning on third down in overtime whether they tush pushed correctly and and all of you saying that brandon powell shouldn't be pushing any tushies. I totally agree. So let's not make a mistake. Get a fat guy to do that.

Get somebody stronger to do that. So I do agree. That doesn't make any sense. But anyway, I just think that we're going to ride a wave here toward the end. They may not make the playoffs. They might 50-50 to me. And if they don't, I'm not going to say, wow, this team completely blew it. I'll probably look at this year, like Detroit last year, like they were in transition. They

were not great. They were not terrible, but the foundation was built to have a really good season next year. That's not really anything that is going to make anyone happy right now after this loss. No. And I think we're seeing that. People are very frustrated. But this year as a whole, if everything played out the way it has and Kirk Cousins was your quarterback the whole time, I think it'd be fair to be frustrated, right? But I think when he goes down and you continue to win a couple of games then you lose a few games i think that kind of gives you like permission to kind of just say whatever happens is good and we'll try again next year me and you we probably think they should try again without a quarterback named kirk cousins some people think they should try again without a quarterback named Kirk Cousins. Some people think they should try with a quarterback named Kirk Cousins.

But this whole season, the fluctuations, the ups and downs, I think were along for this ride because they're not playing with their starting quarterback anymore. And I think from that moment forward, when he went down, whether it was Nick Mullins, whether it was Jaron Hall, whether it was Josh Dobbsins whether it was jaron hall whether it's josh jobs everything that they did if they somehow made the playoffs was going to feel like that was a successful year so now that that's in flux and we don't know it's going to be hard to kind of coin whether this was

a successful or unsuccessful year until the dust settles in week 18. But I really think it's been entertaining, at least at the very least. So when we look back on this year, we're going to remember it for certain plays and moments and, you know, games and how they came down to the wire. And this guy came in to the team and did this and then fell by the wayside and someone else stepped up and did this and um so it's going to be a memorable season for sure when when we look back on it all we don't need to talk about it like it's over because there are three weeks left in the year um but there was kind of a feeling that like how when kirk cousins went down in green bay it felt like maybe the season ended this loss in c loss in Cincinnati kind of feels that same way. Well, it does just because if you get this win,

then all you need is one out of three, and your chances to make the playoffs are like 98% or something. So you're virtually in if you just get this one. And that's where there's the, I think, the wind out of the sails. Comes from like, okay, now you have to play great. Now you have to play really well against good teams in order to do it. And you haven't been playing really well against bad teams. Didn't play really well against Chicago.

Denver is eh. But they're probably on the same level as Green Bay. Like very eh. But you didn't play well against Chicago, the Raiders. And this team is not a bad team at all. This team, their coach has gone to the Super Bowl, but a backup quarterback nonetheless. You feel like you should be able to win it with your defense.

So now here you sit with desperation at the end of the year. I imagine Nick Mullins will be the quarterback. He should, if they get eliminated, then, yeah, play Jaron Hall for a week or two or whatever. I don't think they could be eliminated next week. So we're really only talking about one game for Jaron Hall, but no need to make a change now. Let the playmakers have their best shot at it and see what can happen.

So thanks, everybody, for watching. I truly have run completely out of voice, but I appreciate everybody being patient with it sounding like I may have eaten gravel here, but I'm good i'm all right and uh hopefully you guys will be too and you can just watch football the rest of the day but this is this is one that's pretty tough for people i think uh because you had it you're up by two scores and they gave it away so i just want to reiterate that that if you're unhappy and upset with how they gave it away, like we don't disagree with

you. I think it just, it's always like this bigger picture stuff where I kind of recoil a little bit like, well, I don't, I don't know if we want to start calling for coaches jobs because you lost by three points against a team that's good at the end. So anyway, thanks everybody again for watching and we will continue the coverage throughout the week and we'll catch y'all next time