Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Vikings give away the game in Denver

Episode Date: November 20, 2023

Matthew Coller and Dane Mizutani of the Pioneer Press break down the Vikings' 21-20 loss to the Denver Broncos in which they controlled the entire game but gave it away to Russell Wilson at the end. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another Vikings postgame show here on Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here along with Dane Mizutani of the Pioneer Press inside whatever they call Mile High Stadium. Now after the Vikings fall 21-20 here in a game in which they kept giving it away. Dane, that is the story of the game. And I got to tell you, it's a little bit difficult for me when the main story just is, look, they turned the ball over because a lot of times on the post game show after a loss, what we like to try to do is look for things that are actionable,

things that they could change, things that cause this, whether it was decisions leading up to the, you know, the roster or, you know, the game plan or the play calling. And there is certainly stuff that we will discuss for sure, including the first drive and the decision to run some sort of trickery with Josh Dobbs, which has never seemingly played out in Kevin O'Connell's favor. But still, when it comes down to how both teams played for the vast majority of this game, the Vikings moved the ball.

The Vikings stopped the first four attempts of the Broncos in the red zone. It seemed like the defense was on point, bailing them out pretty consistently. The Broncos didn't run the ball well. Russell Wilson had some moments early on, but did not look great through most of this game. And yet they're on the doorstep of getting it even. They didn't even need a first down. Just don't give the ball away, kick another field goal. And you probably walk out of here with a win and Alexander Madison fumbles the game away. I guess I don't

know what I'm supposed to do with this other than to say that over the last five weeks, they have dominated the turnover differential and what goes up must come down we don't have to be rocket scientists in order to know that and uh that's what happened tonight that they got on the bad side of some of that turnover luck and they end up losing this game now that is not a free pass to the things that we will talk about including mcconnell's decision there and a couple other ones uh that people have maybe called too conservative and so forth. But I always have trouble when the answer and the explanation is right there in front of you. And in this game, it was right there in front of you. It was the turnovers.

Absolutely. We're going to dissect this, you know, over the next hour. And it's just going to probably feel a little bit like we're going in circles because we're just going to end up talking about the turnovers in the end and everything kind of leads back to the three to zero turnover differential it's something kevin o'connell preached all week um i think heading into this game the denver broncos had won three straight and they had forced 10 turnovers in that stretch so they were showing that they can force the hand of the other offense and if the offense on the other side does not take care of the ball they can you know take over a game on defense the broncos can and i think that was a big coaching point all week for the vikings for kevin o'connell so to see it then play out in the exact way that you were hoping it wouldn't play out

it has to be frustrating and walking around locker room, you could tell there was frustration listening to Coach Kevin O'Connell talk and watching him kind of walk off that podium tonight. You could tell there was frustration because I think it really does come down to what you just said is you can dissect this game any way you want. You can criticize certain play calls, certain decisions in certain moments, certain players not making plays when they were there to be made. But at the end of the day, if they just hold on to the football, none of that matters. It's all moot. They win the game if they just do not cough the ball up. Now, we're going to talk about the first drive of the game.

One of the turnovers could be chalked up directly to a probably too cute questionable play call from kevin o'connell we'll dive into that i'm sure but yeah it's just a weird game to talk about because we're sitting there after the game in the locker room talking to safety cam by and i'm talking to safety josh metellus basically saying like what happened on that last drive, even though they were spectacular pretty much all night long on the defensive side of the ball. Cam Bynum said we weren't at our best when we needed to be. That's true.

They did kind of just let them dink and duck the ball all the way downfield. Then Cortland Sutton made a big play in the end zone. But, again, it goes back to the turnovers. If they hold on to the ball, that last drive doesn't matter at all. The Vikings should have won this game by a couple of scores. Instead, they lose by one point because of the turnovers. So I want to talk about the criticism of O'Connell and the approach in some situations where they could have gone for it, could have tried to score a touchdown. There was a, I think it was a fourth and one that they decided not to go for and punted away. I'm going to lean toward defending that more than criticizing that, which I know sounds strange for me because I have go for it

tattooed across my chest. But the way that Josh Dobbs was playing tonight looked much more like somebody who was a little less comfortable, much more like a journey playing tonight looked much more like somebody who was a little less comfortable, much more like a journeyman quarterback, much more like a new offense. It wasn't as smooth as it was against the New Orleans Saints where it just looked like drop back, deliver to open wide receivers. And there was some of that, but there were a lot more scrambles where it wasn't as pretty. And there were two great scrambles that resulted in touchdowns, one where he threw it and another one where he ran in. But on a play to play basis, they were having much more success running the football than they were dropping back, delivering pass

after pass after pass and just moving the sticks. It seemed to be a couple of big throws. There was one to Josh Oliver right before they fumbled that looked like it was going to be the dagger. There was another one along the sideline where Addison ran a really tremendous route, got open, threw it in time. But the timing was just a little bit off, which I think can be attributed to a lot of really good players on the Denver Broncos, especially on their secondary. But their coverages were good. They've clearly fixed so many things on the defensive side. So I understood why if Kevin O'Connell was watching Dobbs play and feeling like, you know, there seems to be a turnover in the air. There seems to be a little more of those scrambles aren't coming out perfectly and so forth that he decided that he was going to play it a little more

safe. And this is where it comes down to when you lose a game. And we've been through this multiple times this year. When you lose a game, the first inclination is to say, well, they did everything wrong. And that's fair in some instances, in some losses, they do everything wrong and there's nothing to really talk about. But in this case, I thought that it was handled just fine and they were about to run away with the game, put in a dagger and call it a night, and then they just swung the door wide open because of Alexander Madison, and that's the other discussion that needs to be had. This was Madison's best game, I think, by far. He played well against the Chargers earlier this year.

This defense for the Broncos cannot stop the running game really at all. And Madison is plowing forward, run after run, having a pretty good night and then fumbles away the best game of his season. And I think, you know, there are people who want Madison benched. I don't know how you do that. You're already down cam acres. Ty Chandler had an excellent game, save for the pass block. He was supposed to make that the guy hits Josh Dobbs, his arm in terms into an interception, which these things have to be factored in how well somebody can handle the offense. So I also want to see Ty Chandler in there all the time. He had a phenomenal game overall, but I can see why there might be a

trust factor. And you also just can't have one running back. So Madison has to be a part of this. He was always going to have to be a part of this. And this was in my mind until he fumbles that ball. This was like the ideal Madison role where, okay, he's in like half the time, but not all the time. And then you have this thunder and lightning type of situation. And instead he ends up fumbling it away and this is again where we kind of just go i don't know i don't know what to say about that right i just i don't know what to say about this like the loss happens there and then the defensive side of it let's discuss at some point but the loss happens there after a game where he's the best that he's

been all year long and that that's kind of like what this felt like. This felt like you're a team that had a five game winning streak that was bound to kind of have something go wrong at some point. And it did for sure. And it's totally fair to say, like, I know people have latched onto that decision to not go for it, to punt in the first half. And I think it was fourth and short from pretty close to midfield I'm pretty sure the fourth down bot said go for it analytics said go for it but it was like a two percent difference between go and punt and to your point the offense just looked kind of clunky early on Josh Dobbs fumbled the ball well obviously fumbled the ball because of the pitch play that that went awry but also just couldn't get the exchange down with Garrett Bradbury twice.

So I don't blame Kevin O'Connell for punting the ball there. And all of that kind of added up to you got the ball back after halftime because your defense stepped up. You marched right down the field and took a 17-9 lead. And then you're there with a chance to kind of go ahead. And this is where we talk about Alexander Madison. If he doesn't fumble that ball, the Vikings win this game running away, I think.

Even if you kick a field goal there, I think the game's pretty much out of hand because it just never really looked like Denver was going to threaten to kind of make this a game unless you kept it close. And that was proven. Five field goals up until the touchdown on the final drive. So if Alexander Madison doesn't fumble the ball there,

I think the Vikings just run away with it. So all of the, well, was Kevin O'Connell conservative early on? None of that really matters to me because he got the look he was hoping for. They went out and they proved they were better early in the second half and they were moving the ball on the drive that he that alexander myerson fumbled first and 10 from the plus 34 you know they're just a touchdown felt inevitable there i think we even looked at each other and said this game could get out of hand because it really felt like it was about to then the ball hits the ground and then you're kind of just kind of biting it

and up against it the rest of the way. But that's the turning point in the game. And it, it just, I understand why people watch Ty Chandler and want him to get more touches. I believe he should get more touches. I frankly wouldn't care if you just inverted the touches and made Ty Chandler your, you know, lead back per se and kind of shifted Alexander Madison into a role that he had with Dalvin Cook, but you're not taking Alexander Madison off the field completely,

which I think is what people are going to overreact and kind of say, well, you know, Madison should never play again. Well, he's going to have to play because they just don't have depth in the backfield. But with the way Ty Chandler ran the ball today, with the way Alexander Madison really turned the game on its head with that costly fumble, I think it's totally fair and on the table to say maybe there should be a new lead back here in Minnesota. It just it seems almost oversimplified. Like every time Ty Chandler touches the ball, something good happens. And Madison, it kind of feels like a crapshoot. Maybe it'll be good, maybe it'll be bad.

Sometimes it'll be a fumble. Sometimes it'll be a run right into someone else's butt. But you never really know. Whereas with Ty Chandler, it feels like, okay, something good could happen almost every time. So I got to imagine the fumble plays a role in, into these reps moving forward. Kevin O'Connell was pretty strong about, you know, taking care of the football in the early stages when they started on three,

one and four at one point said, if people can't take care of the ball, I will find someone who can, they have Ty Chandler now. And I think that's where we're headed. But you're not just going to take Madison out of the game plan completely. You just can't afford to do that with the depth you don't have. Yeah, it's true. But I do feel like it needs to be, like you said, Ty Chandler the rest of the way as the lead back. And you're just going to have to manage some of the other stuff.

If there is a pass block that gets missed, then you're going to have to have Josh Dobbs escape it and sense it and not have his arm hit. That was another thing where it was. And this is one of those classic like game of inches types of games, because it's a few inches away from the ball being knocked down away from Cortland Sutton. It's a few inches away from a Josh Metellus interception that people have pointed out, which I thought Jerry Judy played amazing cornerback on that play, at least the way it looked to me from up here. And then Josh Dobbs getting his arm hit a fumble at the end of the game by the Broncos rolls out of bounds. It was just that type of game.

So I think that there's two different types of losses. There's a loss where you go through the entire process and game plan and play calling and everything else, and you just shred it apart because it deserves it, right? Like you game plan wrong, you played terrible, everyone messed up, and you got to fix a lot of things. really mad at yourself for completely giving it away the what's the stealing a loss from the jaws of victory or something like that's what this felt like this this felt like they outplayed the broncos and then completely just gave the game away in multiple instances and we do have to give the broncos credit for this the final drive and we'll kind of bounce all over the place here a little bit but they stopped the first four trips into the red zone from ending up as a touchdown, which is pretty darn impressive, but also they have asked a lot of the defense. And this is what I was thinking about as they were driving with the

dinks and dunks of Russell Wilson to his running back over and over again is at the end of the Atlanta game, the defense was pretty worn down and they gave up a touchdown and then Dobbs goes down and scores and wins the game. And it felt kind of the same way. You're on the road. You've gone through a lot the last couple of weeks, multiple road games here. You are down your linebacker. You're asking Anthony Barr to go out there and play a lot of snaps when he hasn't played at all this year. And Russell Wilson just finds the exact right strategy, which was let's just throw underneath or just get enough. And they wore the clock down so much that the Vikings didn't have a ton of time at the end of

the game after they scored the touchdown, but it was just asking the defense to repeatedly, and they've done this for weeks now, repeatedly get the huge stop, get the huge stop, get the huge stop, and at some point, they weren't going to get that huge stop. So it's a game that I think you look back with a ton of regret of, yeah, that one play, that one drive, that one mistake, but not a game where you would say

everything was wrong that they did, and all of a sudden, Josh Dobbs can't play or so forth. I remember looking up at his statistics midway through the fourth quarter and he had something like 120 quarterback rating. It was like, Oh, okay. Or,

you know, it was like, he's, he's completing a lot of passes. They're playing offensively well enough. There's look, if they don't lose the game, we are going off about the touchdowns that he had and the different aspect of, of how that he brings to the game. We are going off about the touchdowns that he had and the different aspect that he brings to the game

as far as the running goes. So this loss would not make me think, oh, buddy, it's over. You just got hit in the face with the regression, the magic, the mania, the linsanity. It's all come to an end. But it did make me think there were some things that the broncos did that opposing teams should be watching and probably will be look the the chicago bears just played a really good

game today i don't think that playing the bears is a complete give me i mean they the lions barely survived in the very final seconds of that game against the bears and matt iberflues did a tremendous job about scheming them the last last time that they were in Chicago, the Raiders defense is playing better. I don't have a lot of trust in them, but the underneath stuff working is something we have seen before. And also the defense getting worn down, the injuries playing a role.

It's no surprise at the end of the game, they go after a rookie against one of the better receivers at contested catches in the league in courtland sutton and this is where you just go all right are you gonna let this one topple you over or is this one where you can just bounce back and say all right it was it was some random stuff and some strange turnovers so i think that kevin o'connell stomped off angrily after the game. I mean, one, because at least according to what I saw on Twitter from the broadcast, it should have been a penalty on Kareem Jackson for hitting Josh Dobbs on that fumble, which would have, I think, negated the fumble or at least given 15 yards back the other way. I think it

would have negated the fumble because that's how it was caused. And so he was unhappy with that, unhappy with how much he's emphasized the turnovers and that ends up happening. So is this going to be the breaking point of you lost the game you shouldn't have and then went over the edge because Denver found some stuff late in the game or is it going to be,

well, look, this was the game that was bound to happen to them at some point. It was why I really hemmed and hawed throughout the week of like, who am I going to pick the Vikings? Am I not going to pick the Vikings? Because I just thought those turnovers were going to come back to life at some point. So I don't know which one, like it's going to prove over the coming weeks, which one of those things it's going to be, but this loss does have the potential to push them back in that other direction since they got the best possible version of josh dollars over these last three weeks yeah i'm inclined to believe that it will be one that we look back on

and and we're not thinking that was the game that toppled it all over because there have been opportunities for this thing to go completely haywire this year and they haven't and i think a lot of that is rooted in just kind of the buzzword. It is, but culture and not getting, not freaking out that this thing is the sky is falling now because they lost a game. They probably should have won. I think there will be some actionable things that come out of this, but I also think when you digest the film tomorrow and when we talk to Kevin O'Connell over zoom, and when we talked to these guys throughout the week, uh,

they will kind of, like you said, latch onto the fact that there was a lot of good we did in this game. And frankly, we should have won the game and yeah, it really hurts and it stings because when you lose a game that you should have won, uh, that sucks. And it, it, it can set you back, especially when now you're six and five and you know the nfc isn't great but if you continue to lose games that you should win then you're going to be right on that playoff cut line so i understand the frustration

but this is not a game that i think has to be all right well the magic's run out it's over i think there are things from this game that you can apply moving forward. And if you just also be super hyper-focused on taking care of the football, which sometimes I wonder if talking about it almost is counterproductive because you're like, we can't turn the ball over, and then you end up turning the ball over.

That's what it felt for the first month of the season. But I think if they can kind of just continue to emphasize that while also taking the good of this game, this doesn't have to be a game that we look back on and say, yep, that was where it all turned around. Because I think there were things that Josh Dobbs did in this game that moving forward, he can still continue to kind of build off of. I think what a lot of people who are waiting for the other shoe to drop here are thinking is at some point, Josh Dobbs is going to turn into a pumpkin and he's going to be bad.

And, and the Vikings are going to lose games because of that. They did not lose this game because he was bad. He was, there were some questionable moments. There are times where I think the last drive, and this is probably being a little bit too critical because the last drive's hard. Denver's taking the roof off of the, you know, there was no deep options for the

Vikings. They're very good in coverage, the Broncos are, but it did feel like Josh Dobbs just kind of relied on that scrambling ability. And sometimes maybe it's okay to just eat the play, throw it away. I think of that third down play where it goes as an intentional grounding and maybe just throw it if you can find a way to throw it away in that moment instead of trying to reverse out and scramble and and i get there's like a duality of that because part of what has made those last two weeks amazing is because sometimes those scrambles have worked um but i think when you look at what he can do a lot of the things that he did well for the last two weeks, he did well tonight.

And if we, they won the game, we would be talking about those plays, but I think he needs to also improve upon like, what can I learn from this game? It's okay to like eat a play here and there to just throw the ball in the dirt. There were a couple of times,

not just like looking at the last drive where the scramble went awry and it turns into an, a grounding play, but the drive before that where Greg Joseph, they settled for a field goal. They go up 20 to 15. Josh Dobbs tried to throw an interception there. Cause he was just kind of trying to force something there.

So I think there is almost like a, I got to do more because I've done so much for these two weeks. And I don't think a loss is ever good, but I think this will be, make him be reflective of like okay like I have a really pretty good team around me I just need to take care of the ball he didn't do a great job of that tonight I know the fumble is tough to pin on him because it's a tough play call the pitch pass but still you can hold on to the ball and you know

like the Ty Chandler missing the block hitting hit while you throw that's tough too but it still like goes down in his interception and and josh dobbs said it himself the ball is your hopes dreams and aspirations and it starts with him and he has the ball almost every play to start every single snap um so if he's turning the ball over twice which he did tonight not good but i i think there are things that you can still look forward and build off of from this game and it's not like this is the you know the sky's falling on on this situation they also had a couple of turnover worthy throws and a couple of snaps that ended up getting boshed including the first play of the game so it felt like even though they only turned it over or dobbs turned it over two times and neither was, I mean, one was probably a bad play call and the other one is, you know,

I'm Ty Chandler. It felt like they were playing with fire there with the turnovers all night long and that they eventually got burned. But, you know, I think what we need to do is kind of go through and look at where things need to be blamed right like what's reasonable and what's not in a game like this because you know if you just go through the current list of comments you're like okay we've got fire kevin o'connell we've got dobbs is who we thought he was we've got you know get rid of madison whatever like there's a there's a lot of ideas well we'll put it that way um about what happened here and where we should pin the blame. So we should start with Kevin O'Connell on this.

Because the first play of the game, and of course he was not willing to really go there after the game, and I don't blame him. I guess I wouldn't stand up at a podium and say I made a terrible play call that was completely senseless. Non just, just a, just a garbage idea that never, ever, ever, ever, ever should have been tried. There's so many things that could go wrong there.

TJ Hawkinson doesn't take snaps. You have to flip the ball through the air to Josh Dobbs, who is not a running back. And then he has to ram himself through linebackers and safeties who are flying downhill at him. It just, there's no universe where that makes any sense to do. And you sort of got what you asked for. It was the same with Delvin cook and trying to throw a pass last year.

Like I've never seen Delvin cook throw a pass in my life. And yet you were trying to have him throw it into the end zone and he fumbles or, you know, even last year in the playoffs, you're trying to throw a pass to Kirk cousins of all people in this universe who you don't throw a pass to Kirk cousins would be the guy not to. So there was that there was also, we're going to dial up a pass play on third and one overthinking it while you're having a lot of success in the run game. The overall run game plan worked really well. I didn't think much else worked there uh from some of those like key spots on those third downs and there the other thing is too that the final drive you really have to point to i i think the play calling there as well because there was time and

there were time outs to methodically move into greg joseph's uh range and it like this this air thing with the ball traveling farther oh it's real like the ball actually every punt that ryan wright had i was like oh that's like a 30 yard but oh my gosh every kickoff looked like it was being hit for a home run by a colorado rockies slug. The ball travels like crazy here. He could have kicked a 60-yard field goal, I think probably with ease. He's got one of the best legs, or at least with ease of the distance.

It would have given you a chance. You don't have to run guys deep down the field with longer developing concepts, which allowed the Broncos to be very aggressive in that situation. I thought the Broncos' defense called it up really, really well at the end of that. So if you're looking back and talking about how much criticism from a head coach who has earned a ton of adulation in recent weeks for just a brilliant game plan to start against

the Saints, a magical all-time memorable performance against Atlanta, this was not his night. It doesn't mean that it was, I think, altogether awful because we saw open receivers at times. We really saw a great rush plan, a running game plan, which we haven't seen in recent weeks, but there were also in a game where you lose by one point and you go through it. You don't need a fine tooth comb to find some of the situations where you go. It just, I think it just shows you in the situation you're in with the injuries that you have. It really has to be pretty perfect.

And it was definitely not tonight. Yeah. And I think these games are always interesting because there is so much frustration from a, from a fan base. Then there's obviously it's understandable. Like this is a game they felt like they should have won, but the reaction of all of a sudden now kevin o'connor is the worst coach in the league is just

it's an overreaction it's an emotional reaction i understand um but i also kind of get like the feeling of this wasn't his best game because it really did start from the first drive of the game. Where it was like this was objectively a too cute play call. Running the ball with your tight end. Pitching to your quarterback. You talked at length about being smart with how you run him. Because you don't want him to get hurt. Because you have only Nick Mullins now. Who's coming off a back injury as your backup.

Now you got to take care of Josh Dobbs and protect him. And then you pitch him the ball and let safeties and linebackers run downhill a hundred miles an hour at him. That was a questionable play call in real time at the time. And to Kevin O'Connell's point, he said, well, yeah, that's a play call, but there's a lot of game left. There's a lot of football left. And there was, but there was also in that lot of football left, a lot of places in between where Kevin O'Connell, if it was just one bad play call and he was great the rest of the way, people I don't think would be calling for his head tonight. And calling for his head is not correct. It's not the right take, but I understand the frustration because it wasn't just

one bad play call there were a lot of questionable decisions made throughout the game where at least you were like i don't know if i would have done that um that the third and one call when you're running the ball great and you throw a pass and then you don't go for it because you didn't get the third and one that you'd want and now you're fourth and one and you're punting instead of going if you go to just run the ball then you've got a new set of downs there were elements of you know questionable decision makings throughout the game and i think that is also why there is some frustration with the head coach right now is it wasn't just the questionable play call at the beginning of the game it was a handful of questionable play calls

throughout the game so it did start off on the wrong foot and at times it got better but i think there was just kind of a sour taste in the mouth of a lot of people after that too cute play call from the beginning and frankly there weren't a ton of moments where it was like, all right, he's on fire today. So I think he left himself room for criticism right off the bat, and he didn't really do himself many favors along the way. I don't think he was ultra conservative in this game. I think there is like at times he was. He did go for it, and there was a fake punt call from his own 30. So it's not like he was like, let's not win the game.

He was aggressive about it. There, there were plays after that fake that worked out well, or you're trying to get a touchdown or maybe I, I understand taking a shot and letting Dobbs throw. But at that point, Josh Dobbs didn't look super comfortable either. So I understand running the ball and when you're gaining like five yards of carry. So I understand all the criticism. I understand the frustration. I think it's just a little bit of an emotional reaction after the game. But I also think the head coach put himself

up for that criticism with a questionable play call, literally two minutes into the game. And there is a little bit of a tendency here, not just when it comes to trickeration but also when it comes to there are some times that the answer is very simple and it's sort of right there in front of you and i tweeted after it was an early play in the game where they passed it and dobs through it behind alexander madison on third and one and i tweeted just run it i mean just like sometimes it's right there i mean even when kirk is the quarterback there would be a third and three and they'd throw a bomb down the sideline or something. You'd be like, no, no, it's OK to just throw throw a quick screen, throw a swing pass or something or just run it. And if you have a little more trust in your running back, I don't know.

But tonight you should have had a lot of trust. The other thing is too, that when Ty Chandler carries the ball 10 times and Alexander Madison carries the ball 18 times, you have failed. You get an F for that decision. I mean, because Ty Chandler was just dynamic and explosive tonight. And I mean, gosh, the guy was doing everything. He's on special teams. He ran down, even though the play didn't count, like he ran down Patrick Sertan after he intercepted the ball and tackled him. I mean, just like he was doing absolutely everything tonight. He was very hard to stop. It's third down and 20, which you would never expect to get. And here's Ty Chandler. As soon as he touches the ball, he is so fast that you think, I mean, just from my eye, I thought, oh, well, he's going to get tracked down and get like nine yards or whatever. Nope, he got 20.

And that's Ty Chandler for you. And so to me, that's a failure. And I guess there's a difference between, well, he didn't punt or he should have passed a little more here or there. I thought the passing was shaky enough where I understood why they were conservative in some ways. But I think there's other points that i did have questioned about and there's just this little bit of over complicating trying too hard uh that happens and and i guess last week if it's coming off of last week i understand what you're saying because in the second half they clearly did shut it down get a little too conservative last week and he admitted that this week so i didn't think that that was so much the issue it was just do you

have the the right feel for the right play at the right time? And it felt like tonight at times they didn't, which is still weird to talk about because they should have won the game easily. And, and I also understand at times where you're like Denver, when is Denver going to move the ball? Like, let me know, because they were just miserable on offense for a lot of the night and then come through because of some of the turnovers where they were just given easy chances to score there. Let's talk about Josh Dobbs. The touchdown is just magical where he's breaking defensive ends, tackles. The other rushing touchdown that he had where he read the man coverage saw that everybody was covered up

but there was nobody in the middle and just shoots into the end zone this is a dynamic that he has brought to the offense that is different from anything we've seen in a very long time and it makes up for some of the other stuff at the same time not always sharp with the accuracy an absolutely miserable final drive some of the scrambling. And this is always the given the take of every scrambling quarterback who has ever lived is that some of the scrambling becomes, Oh man, that's not actually working. And you're scrambling to nothing. And there was another time toward the end of the game too. And this is where I thought, you know, Dobbs was maybe just a little bit more on the shaky side. He's rolling out, and he's got maybe eight yards there.

Is this on the final drive? He's got like eight yards there. And Garrett Bradbury starts to go down the field thinking, oh, he's running. I'm going to block the safety, and we're going. And then he throws it, and you're like, no. You're like, nope, nope. And look, turning back around toward your right side, the other way around. At some point, someone's going to be there and kill you.

So like this is this is what you're going to have, I think, through the rest of the way is there are times where it's going to be incredible and breathtaking with the athleticism he has. But also it's a struggle that he had in Arizona, turning turning over the ball some of the decision making in the pocket and we saw shades of that tonight even though he executed a good number of throws a couple to brandon powell a couple to jordan addison a couple to even josh oliver this just felt much more like what i thought josh dobbs games were going to look like if that makes. Not what we saw against the Saints that was completely dominant. Yeah, but I still look at this game and I get it. He was a big part of why they lost the game because at the end of the day, he has two turnovers.

He bobbles two exchanges with Garrett Bradbury. He makes questionable decisions with the ball at times, but he, what I keep going back to is the two touchdown plays. And just like the fact that he's able to do that just still unlocks a different realm of this offense that we hadn't seen in a lot of times when Kirk Cousins was under center, the touchdown play, let's go back to that. He rolls, right. It's his designed rollout and alexander madison is the first read and almost like the only read in that situation it's like madison's gonna flare out i'm gonna roll with him i'm gonna throw him the ball because

most of the time in those situations the guy's kind of leaking out and he's open well he wasn't open and and i think in a lot of situations if that was kirk on that roll out madison's not there i'm throwing the ball away game over we'll kick a field goal josh dobbs rolls out rolls out rolls out shakes off a defensive end outside linebacker rush type sticks his foot in the ground settles his feet looks his looks downfield pump fakes throws to josh oliver for a touchdown the running touchdown later you know after halftime like you said recognizes man coverage takes off says i'm going to beat everyone else to the end zone does those are things i think you latch on to and you say like this offense still can be really good as clunky as it looked tonight

because of Josh jobs, not because, you know, not in spite of him, not like, okay, well, eventually this thing's going to come off the rails because he's just playing with magic, horseshoe, whatever you want to call it. I think there was some of that for the first two games of, of his career in Minnesota. I think there was a little bit of like, wow, this feels a little bit magical. Like, can we, is this sustainable? And we've learned tonight it's not, but I think there are some elements of his game

that are sustainable as you push forward. So the frustration with Josh Dobbs tonight is merited. It comes with the territory of when people really start to latch on and like you and think you're the guy moving forward. You open yourself up to some of those criticisms, especially when you're as shaky as you were tonight. But I always come back to this offense still looks different when he's the guy under center.

And by the way, you're going to get the best player on the team back in time, maybe even next week on Monday Night Football. Justin Jefferson's back. Man, wouldn't you just like to have justin jefferson on that last drive um just either as someone you can throw the ball to or as someone taking two guys with him as he regularly does um just the offense is going to look so much different but i think this isn't a reason even though he was shaky to think wow this josh Josh Dobbs experiments over. I think there's still a lot of good that can come with him under center.

And that's why I'm not like going to be so hypercritical that like he was superhuman for two weeks and now he looked human tonight. And like, yeah, that was going to happen at some point. But I still think this offense can be good with him leading the charge. And there's a question that I have, which is how much were some of those blitzes something that other teams are going to be able to do? That's something I really want to watch because now Matt Eberflus in Chicago does not blitz a whole lot. And yet what we saw last time is when they played the Vikings, they played different coverages and stuff. He will switch it up. And it is possible that we see a change, a more aggressive approach against Dobbs because the Denver Broncos did a really good job. What they were talking about after the game was situationally that I both Kevin O'Connell and

Josh Dobbs says situationally, they called the blitzes at the right time. And I agree with that. It wasn't like they were just rushing and rushing and rushing, but it was like third down. It was big spots where they hit on some of those blitzes and frustrated Dobbs and forced him to try to scramble or forced him to make a bad throw. And that impacted the outcome. For me, it was always going into this. It was if you could get two out of three here, if you can get you're playing three opponents that you feel like you should beat, although Denver's playing better recently and you feel like you should win all three. But that's usually not how it works in the NFL.

Even around the league, we see strange results and upsets. And especially when it's more it it's closer to a 50, 50 game, uh, the line slightly favored Denver, right. For a reason, uh, because even the gambling community thought at some point of five game win streak is going to come to an end. The question is, is there, you know, a solution here that is going to be found against Josh Dobbs that they can use against them. And then you go back to the, Oh wait, they moved the ball actually quite well all night

long and they just didn't finish the job. And so that like, I always have to kind of pull myself back of like, well, they didn't really botch everything here. Uh, but let's talk about the defensive side. I mean, again, two thirds, three quarters of the way through the game, as you're sort of formulating in your mind, what are we going to be saying about this game after I was again, ready to Marvel at Brian Flores, his defense and just say, look, I don't know how he did it. I mean, you've got Ivan pace out there, a rookie handling the green dot. You have, uh, you know, Anthony bar showing up and making plays. You're using everybody again here on a night like this. And there were a couple of close calls where they

almost got a fumble. They almost get an interception. Just didn't quite happen. Did you a hunter gets a sack DJ want them's getting another sack. They go like, Oh, look here, they're doing it again. They're doing it again. But then in the final drive, this is something that if you're talking about the one area where there has to be a weakness, because no defense covers all of the field. Otherwise, you know, they would, everyone would run that scheme, right? If, if there was one defensive style and the one thing that putting a lot of guys flying scrimmage and a lot of guys, 10 yards deep does is it leaves a little bit of a soft area in the middle and they knew that it required a touchdown that, yeah, okay. You can dink, you can dunk, you can run the clock down, you can get a couple of first downs, but you just can't get in the end zone. And then on the touchdown, it's a great throw and it's a great catch. And you also still have an opportunity to win the game. Giving,

considering you turn the ball over three times, giving up 21 points and a ton of field goals is a successful night, but it's on the quarterback side. We always talk about how those game winning drives are hard to repeat. Last year, we discussed that with Kirk cousins where it got to the playoffs and like, Oh, they weren't able to do it. Well, it's the same thing with the defense where I don't think you can just ask your defense to do this all the time. And that eventually one was going to go awry. So last week, Winston throws you a fly ball that you catch and it ends the game and you don't blow it. But early in the year, there were other instances where the ball bounces off somebody and turns into a touchdown and you do blow it.

And such is the nature of playing one score games. And I felt like walking out of this, that one of the main takeaways is this is probably what we're in for, for the rest of the Dobbs. Like the defense is going to have to make those big plays every time. And they are more likely than not going to get worn down at times. And it's going to come down to that. But I do wonder if the dink and dunk stuff, as you face, you know, Justin Fields, as you face you know justin fields as you face maybe aiden o'connell maybe i don't know who who knows who could be playing quarterback for the

raiders at that point but i i just think it's a to me it's a lot to ask to say go over for you know in the red zone and and or you know do it again like shut them down five straight times in the red so that was just to me too much to ask for the defense so i was willing to say like that was going to happen eventually even if you know it did play out that way yeah to the point about dink and dunk um you did see that that style works i think part of that was situationally like you said like let's not let anything get behind us they need a touchdown to win the game but we have seen this this defense be susceptible to that style of play call that's why justin herbert completed like 90 of his passes earlier this season because it was a lot of keenan

allen it was a lot of quick right you know right off the line of scrimmage let's get the ball out quickly into these little pockets of space that are just going to inherently be there in this defense so i will be curious how the next two weeks transpire i guess two and a half because we have the buy-in in between maybe we won't find out because i don't frankly think justin fields is all too great if that sky's open let me just hit him um i think the quarterback position is pretty tough on him maybe it won't be found out with Aiden O'Connell because he threw three interceptions today. Maybe the competition you're facing isn't going to be able to take advantage of what you've exposed as a potential weakness, but it could be a

potential weakness. It's something to definitely keep an eye on. As far as the game itself and how this defense performed, great like they performed really really well and we asked cambino about this after the game like he denied it but i think there was an element of this is like you force five field goals throughout the game you're given just horribly unfavorable field position at times and the defense is basically standing on its head to make sure these balls end up going between the uprights and not in the end zone i think that wears on you like it wears on you physically like obviously at altitude you're here like like you said about the balls travel further at altitude you also get tired more if you aren't

used to it and i think there was probably a little bit of them being gassed on that final possession but I think it also mentally wears on you like wow we've really played well today and we have to make sure we hold them to another field goal or we're gonna lose and I think it was just a culmination of not just today and how they bended and bended and bended but didn't break but also the last month, this whole five-game winning streak, they've been asked to bend and bend and bend and not break and come through and win the game. And you have defensive backs calling themselves closers because they think, oh, we have to go out and win the game.

And it's great that they have that confidence and they think we are capable of doing this, but it's also not great that they feel like they have to go out and win the game. And you heard Cam Bynum and Josh Metellus say it today. We have to go out and win the game. It's because the defense has kind of been put in a tough position, not just tonight, but across this five-game winning streak. So, yeah, we're going to need a little bit more balance moving forward

because I don't think you can just rely on this defense to constantly force turnovers as a way to make sure you win a football game. Like we said at the beginning of this podcast, it's going to circle back to the turnovers at the end. A lot of that's hinged on the offense putting them in a tough position tonight. I think with the amount of plays this defense has made over the course of the last month and a half, there was probably going to be a game where they just didn't take the ball away. Kind of like law of averages. They didn't tonight. There were opportunities,

but it didn't bounce their way. The ball bounced out of bounds. The ball got chopped out of Josh Metellus's hands. I think you can chalk that up to, you're not going to get two takeaways every single game when it feels like you've been getting those so that's kind of what it came down to tonight but they still should have won the game so like i it's it's just a weird hard game to talk about because all of these things that feel like very well deserved, the whole tenor of this game is different.

If they just get that stop or instead of kicking a field goal, the offense is able to punch it into the end zone. So there's, it's one of those games where we're going to talk about and criticize and critique and rightfully so. But sometimes the simplest answer is the right answer. And this one is just like, if they didn't turn the ball over, they would have won. And that's simple as that. So it reminds me actually a lot of week one against the Tampa Bay Bucs.

They outplayed the Bucs, but they threw a very strange interception at the end of the first half that cost them a touchdown or at very least a field goal. And then the game swung in the second half. They didn't get the key stops. They didn't touch the ball again at the end of the game because the Bucs were able to drive it and exploit some of the weaknesses on the underneath passing and so forth. And we came out of that game with two conclusions. One, they outplayed the Bucs and should have won. But two, this is bad.

Like this is bad for your outlook of your entire season. Now it hasn't destroyed their entire season, but still at the beginning, it looked like it because we knew how tough their schedule was about to be. And this is where we always, at the end of the podcast, talk about the bigger picture toward this. And for me, it's all right. We can discuss how like the process of the game,

like the run of play, they were the better team, uh, to use kind of a soccer term there. Right. So, all right. Like overall, I still think that you were a better team than the Denver Broncos. And I don't think that this means that it's going to come apart and so forth. And actually let me scroll up here because, uh, Larry had a great overreaction tweet, but I want to ask you how much of an overreaction. So Larry said, uh, here, uh, I'll put it on the screen for everybody. This is good stuff, Larry. Um, it's, uh, says it just kind of feels like the season falling apart when Kirk dropped. Uh, we just didn't know it until now. So, uh, what he's saying is that when Kirk got hurt, the season was actually over and we just didn't know it until now so uh what he's saying is that when kirk got hurt

the season was actually over and we just found out today now uh the thing is that there may be merit to this and it's going to be determined in the next couple of weeks because cincinnati is all of a sudden very beatable without joe burrow and then we get to the end of the year green bay is not a joke they played well today uh but still a team you feel like you should beat at home and then the two detroit games which will be very difficult when you start adding that up though if you don't win this next one then no matter who you're playing it's not going to feel like you have a big advantage and to lose to a team that you think is inferior to you in a game where you played better, all of a sudden now that door does crack open of what Larry's saying. It's like the season, it does not quite feel like it's teetering on the edge,

but man, if they lose against the Chicago Bears, it will feel like, oh, well, it was just those two random games that Josh Dobbs won that we'll remember forever and all the magical times we had. And that if they win tonight, that scenario is not possible to me. That scenario is you have so many wins. You'd be seven and four. You'd be feeling great. And you're going into play teams that aren't any good. And they were like this close to having it. They are just don't fumble that ball, kick another field goal at very least you're in field goal position at that time and there you are and to let that slip away i i mean i i think in that locker room

you could really feel it you could feel how they all knew right there if you go to seven and four i mean you are making the playoffs you would have to completely melt down and lose like every game the rest of the way and now now you lose another one you go back to 500 then it's sort of anybody's ball game still in the nfc that's that's where in the big picture that this changes a lot i don't think it changes a lot about our dobbs discussion you're not benching dobbs i think he played like a starting quarterback today and can still win you a good amount of games. But again, if they win, we're going, oh boy, Josh Dobbs, they can win with this guy. Keep it rolling.

It's Keenum season again, and maybe he's the future quarterback. Now for this next week, that whole is Dobbs, the future quarterback thing kind of gets put on hold as it's more of a buildup to. All right. Like this game suddenly becomes feeling like it's more of a build up to all right like this game suddenly becomes feeling like it's more of your season against the bears so there's major implications to this i think yeah and i think that comment's still pretty much an overreaction like because i think the last two weeks is it wasn't i don't think but i guess it does leave the the door open i don't think the last two weeks were just some blip on the radar that all of a sudden now the magic's gone.

And I don't think that because of a lot of what we did see tonight, like that there were elements of the game that were good. It wasn't just the worst game we ever, and they get blown out by Denver, and that this, okay, the season was really done, and we just didn't know it. But at the same time, I can totally understand that reaction, and that's kind of the way that I think this whole week that TCO performance center is going to be covered is like that game against the bears. Now at home on Monday night football on national television,

isn't just like a walk over, like, all right, they're just in our way on our way to a nice bi-week. Now it's like, you better win the game. Otherwise, like then you start to sound the alarms

and maybe that would be an overreaction still but like not really because of what happened tonight like it does just feel like the door is open now for the potential at least that this snowballs and it just didn't have to be because you should have won this game and and maybe that's where a lot of this frustration lies is that like a lot of minnesota sports fandom is just waiting for things to go wrong and this feels like man this could be it this could be the the thing that sparks all of it going awry i like i said, I'm still inclined to believe that they can catch this thing before it kind of gets out of hand, but we won't find that out until Monday until at us bank stadium in prime

time against the bears, who you absolutely should beat. If you lose to that team, then all of a sudden it's like, man, this could get out of hand. It could be in trouble. So yeah, that's what happened tonight is like,

you at least left that small sliver of the door open for the potential of, we do look back on that Denver game and say, yeah, that's where everything went wrong. Think it is an overreaction, but it's certainly possible. Well, and in the comments section, it's also brought up that the NFC has such a bad level of talent that even just not completely melting. If you get eight wins, you might get into the playoffs just by having eight wins. I mean, the Tampa Bay Bucks were horrible today against San Francisco.

I honestly have no idea who's chasing them down. Washington lost to Tommy DeVito. I mean, what a what? There's almost no one to get them. They might win. I mean, eight is as low as I'll go. But even if you won seven, are you playing like the last week for the possibility of still getting in because these other teams

are so atrocious that are going for the playoffs? But I think that when Dobbs won those last two games, especially against the Saints, and it was very impressive, then there started to be a little bit of a shift toward okay uh yeah you're trying to make the playoffs it would be fun it'd be crazy story Dobbs shows up here like they coached and defense their way and everything else to the playoffs but there was almost this little feeling of like would someone not want to play them like would they would they be, they'd be a little scary. And I think the general takeaway was, yeah, like they, they could be because they have this other dynamic, a quarterback, because they have this defense that's playing well. And I don't think that tonight was enough for me to say like, okay, forget all that. Like that conversation never

happened. Men in black sort of like, just let's pretend it never happened because they did move the ball and because they did run better and because they did have a good defensive performance on the whole. At the same time, though, if you lose next week, then we are saying, all right, well, yeah, you could probably make the playoffs, but is this going to be worth it? And there's that feeling starts to settle in like it did last year when they lost to green bay i was like okay you barely survived the colts being down 30 points and then you lost at lambeau and going into the giants game i think there wasn't a ton of belief that they had any chance to really go anywhere in the nfc and not that i'm saying that dobbs everyone

believed they could go to the championship i just mean that there was all of a sudden this kind of intrigue of like, Hey, what if it happens again? Like, cause it's happened so many times in Vikings history and tonight it pours ice cold water on that for now. And next week I think we'll determine whether that is a trend or whether it was just one of those days where you turn the ball over. So anyway, thanks all of you for staying up late mountain time messes with you. Let me tell you, I had no idea when we were supposed to be here, when the game started, my computer has the central time on it. So I don't even know what time it is right now, technically. Um, but I appreciate all of you staying up late to watch the broadcast

here, big audience tonight. And I appreciate that appreciate that um thank you to our look look at this stadium view behind us that is incredible um and also of course dane mizzutani pioneer press read his on deadline work that he has to actually get back to right now so really appreciate all of you it'll be a very interesting week of discussion as we continue to break this down and go back and look at the tape and then go into the week against the bears so thanks again everybody and we will catch you all next time