Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Vikings GM Kwesi Adofo-Mensah joins Purple Insider!

Episode Date: May 2, 2024

Vikings general manager Kwesi Adofo-Mensah joins Matthew Coller to talk about the process of breaking down JJ McCarthy analytically and the challenges of a small sample size, plus how he's grown as a general manager and his relationship with Kevin O'Connell when it comes to combining data and film. Plus Matthew and Manny Hill talk about which historical Vikings QB that McCarthy is most like Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to a very special episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collar here and joining me on the show, the general manager of the Minnesota Vikings, Kwesi Adafomensa. Kwesi, it's great to have you on the show for the very first time. I'm pulling you out of meetings here, so I'm happy that you could make time to jump on. I guess I want to start out by just saying

it feels new around there. It feels fresh. It feels like one thing came to an end and another thing started with this draft. Does it feel that way for you? You know, I think that'll probably settle in when they arrive. I do feel that sense a little bit. But I also want to say that that comes with a great appreciation for the people that came before them. You know, I know you're specifically talking about the quarterback,

but even just all the guys that have been here these first two years, built this culture, had us in the playoffs or competing for the playoffs right up until the last very minute. You know, my admiration and appreciation for those guys will always remain. I always say to tell those guys my relationships are not transactional. They have my number forever and really just appreciate those guys. But I am happy about the the new guys coming in the new you know these guys are going to pick up the culture for the next you know foreseeable future for the Vikings and I'm excited to add them to the group we add in for agency the guys that they inherited on this team already I'm just you know we're

fortunate to bring in these guys it's probably so much different from any other sport when it comes to football the amount of players that come and go and you know Harrison Smith has talked about that over the years where it seems like every year in his press conference we ask him so you lost this teammate this teammate signed somewhere else and he said like that's just kind of how the league works but I think about when you guys arrive to how different this is now, and especially because Kirk was here for so long, it feels like the Kweisi Adafo Mensah, Kevin O'Connell team has been formed over the last couple of years. I was mentioning on the show the other day that I think that the hardest part starts now

for you guys. Do you view it that way? When you get the quarterback, it sort of starts a new timeline for you. And the hardest one is to really compete and really get to the top of the mountain. So how do you view that? Yeah, no, I would agree with that. I think, you know, I think I'd always probably say that the hardest thing is the next thing, just cause that's how we're wired. But, you know, in a sense, we've added some great names on a depth chart, but now it really involves bringing them in, nurturing them, you know,

talk about a quarterback. We talk about environment all the time. and just making sure that we're not the reason that we fail. JJ, you know, I, you know, I, I really do believe that, that when you hire, you know, great executives or quarterbacks, whatever it is, like it's my job to not fail them. I've identified them as talented. We've identified them as talented. How do we make sure we don't fail him? And so to your point, the hardest part is that, but looking at it, you know, I have my board with, you know, all our draft picks and cap space going forward and you are kind of looking forward to the future and trying to think of when we'll be the optimal window for his performance and our performance or, you know, as a team.

It's a lot, obviously it's a, it's a little puzzle that I don't ultimately know the answer to all your best laid plans can go out the window. If you know, anything deviates from, from normal, just like the draft, you know, we got Sam, you know, coming in to compete day one, you know, I'm actually really optimistic about Sam and playing well and, you know, we'll see what happens there. But you know, ultimately what you're, what you're, you're saying is right.

The hard part about planning this in a way that sets up for a timeline to ultimately go climb the mountaintop, that's kind of what we came in and started to do in 2022. And now we're just in year three of that. I won't name it a plan or anything like that, but just we're in year three of it right now. We're working on it. We're working on it for new names for the plan. You really handed it on a silver platter to us the first time. But when it came to the J.J. McCarthy decision, I had a silver platter to us the first time. But when it

came to the JJ McCarthy decision, I had a lot of fun because there's no pressure on me over the last couple of months, diving into every number I could find, reading everybody's opinion. And the one thing that was difficult for me with JJ McCarthy was just the lack of numbers to work with. When it came to the other prospects, it was right there. There were hundreds and hundreds of dropbacks, huge sample sizes, and it was just a struggle when you try to even section those things out. How many third down and longs? A hundred. How many plays under pressure? Fifty. And I wonder, how did you guys deal with that issue that the sample size with him specifically it was very good but it just wasn't very big no it's absolutely right and that was probably the struggle that i

have because so much of the analysis i do takes the assumption that on a game basis guys are going to throw roughly the same amount of plays i mean obviously we have advanced metrics that do it on a per attempt basis but um that was a struggle um It really was. And I think you nailed it. I think when you go more to a thinner slice with cutups and maybe not third and long third and three plus, you know, red zone, non drop back, or red zone, no play action, different things like that where you can kind of make it as apples to apples as possible.

And then we also just lean on our statistics that we have that are on a per play basis. Now, the hard part about those is, is, you know, I always joke, you know, NBA analysis, right? If there's differences between efficiency and load, if you look at like a number two score who sits in the corner and you say, man, this guy's super efficient. Well, that's not the same load that Anthony Edwards has when the whole defense is looking to stop him and he's got to take shots at the end of the shot clock.

Those are going to be harder shots. So always trying to make sure that, yeah, we have these metrics, but is it the same thing required of him as is required of other people? And just, and honestly, there is no super smart, right answer. There is just a dedicated approach to process information, listening to different viewpoints and coming up with your, your, your evaluation at the end of the day that it corporates is all those things. Which ones mattered to you? Because i thought the third down stuff you could definitely make a case for where it's hey it's on

you buddy i think that under pressure in the nfl can be up and down but in college if it's really poor under pressure i would pay attention to that he was actually quite good under pressure and even something that caught my eye too was his play action numbers where he's turning his back to the defense, which you do not see very often when it comes to college football. And he was really excellent rolling out, throwing on the run. I think that those numbers would probably be the ones I would point to if I was making my case. If I was putting together like my J.J. McCarthy dossier, I would say like these are the ones that kind of stand out to me. Which one stood out to you? Absolutely.

I think that's exactly right. You know, obviously you start with the overall play as a baseline just to see what that is. But, you know, after that, we focus a lot on third down red zone. Now, within third down and red zone, you're typically going to see those under pressure plays, but under pressure is obviously something we look at. We identify, you know, we have a term we use here where we, you know, we call it conflict resolution. And then we look at metrics that kind of support that.

Now, what's hard about that is conflict resolution isn't necessarily what everybody thinks it is. It's not always just somebody taking off and running. It's, you know, some of the subtle plays that we talked about, you know, in our time together, just, you know, maybe seeing an alignment about to get edge and taking that subtle two steps over and getting themselves a throwing window, things like that. Because ultimately, when you look at a stat, that's only possible for what's available to them. So let's say that they can allude, but there's nobody open and they do a throwaway. Well, that's a that's going to show up as an EPA value of something or whatever it is versus somebody else who just had happened to have somebody open. They made the same play, you know, right. And so that's, again, a lot of the stuff we're doing, just like in baseball or basketball, you're trying to contextualize apples to apples

to show ability. And if they were in a better circumstance, maybe the stats would have showed something else. So Kevin O'Connell mentioned something interesting about the way that your thought process has impacted his thought process. I'd love to hear you talk about that because we all made our culture of collaboration jokes when you guys talked about that getting here, but this was the huge thing going into this decision is having everybody on board. So how, how did he take what he can do as far as analyzing film and breaking down the technique of a quarterback and pair that with the quantitative type analysis.

Yeah. You know, I think it's funny, you know, I call the quarter with a quarterback as a marriage and obviously me and him, that's a, that's a marriage. And so we spent a lot of time together. At some point you start sounding the same, you know, using the same language. But, you know, I think football is this beautiful thing where watching film and we call it analytics, but it's all the same thing. You know, a statistic is just a play that somebody describes something, yards, EPA, whatever it is. A coach can watch a play and describe it as good or bad. And then how do you contextualize that in the end?

And how do you use that context to make final decisions? So we kind of learned that for me, just my process being a data guy when i had to learn how to scout well i was like well i'm a math guy well how does a math guy scout he takes evidence and he figures out how to use that evidence to make a decision um so just that process of how i set up our scouting culture where how we talk about quarterbacks in terms of impact at every position really and then how do you provide evidence that support all those different things um and then you know he's he's a special guy i say it all the time i don't think people realize um that there's not many coaches in the league that would kind of roll their sleeves up and do the things that i've asked uh i've asked other people to do that he kind of just sees and sees

value in it and now he's doing and like these are these are these are things that like your quality control coach might be asked to do. But he wants ownership over it. And he's just such a creative mind and just hardworking that he always wants to grow and learn, develop. And so he's taking that from me. But don't get this twisted for one second. I've learned a ton from him. You know, now I watch quarterback play and I'm talking about base and different things like that and things that I obviously I would never know before. But it's good to have that difference.

I'll watch a play. We'll both come together and we'll compare our cut-ups. And we have the same play, but he's looking at 10 different things that I didn't see. And I'm looking at, well, he sees everything, I'm not going to lie. But there's five things that I probably saw that I focused more on, and maybe I say it in a way that kind of hits him, certainly. And that's why collaboration is great, because you cover each other's blind spots. You come from a different worldview and you come together and

it's, it's a beautiful thing, but you know, he he's taken to a lot of the stuff I've done from a process standpoint, but I've learned so much from him. It's, it's, you know, it's mutual. Yeah. I think you spend a few minutes with Kevin and you realize how much you don't know about quarterback play in comparison. I w I wanted to ask you when you got to San Francisco about your experience there, combining what you could do mathematically with understanding where the football people are coming from. Because I did a little stuff when I was reporting

with analytics with a hockey team where the coach asked me, hey, can you show me some of these numbers you're writing? And I went into his office thinking, I'm going to tell this guy all the line combinations and I'm going to change this team. And about five minutes. And I was like, now I understand why you're doing the things you're doing. And it's, it's a hit you're like, Oh, okay. I, I get this at a lot better level. What was that like for you taking what you could do data wise, and then like pairing that early

on, or how did that hit you when you got to San Francisco and started to learn how some of the other stuff works behind the scenes? No, that's exactly right. You know, I was fortunate enough to come from a trading background where humility is beaten into you on a daily basis that you don't know everything. 40% of the time when you're good, you lose. And so you're always saying, well, somebody else who's just as smart as me decided to buy when I decided to sell. So I never walk into rooms thinking I've got it all figured out. But when I got to San Francisco, you know, obviously I was tasked with kind of elevating some of the things quantitatively. And I started with scouting reports, you know, just helping them how to quantify what other teams do.

But the first thing I did was grab a couple of coaches and say, hey, how do you look at other teams? How do you come up with your plan? Always start there. You know, I always call it the what and the why. The what's the numbers. But you got to understand the why to make the what kind of kind of match. So that was always my approach. And then in scouting sense, you know, Ethan Wah, who's somebody I always name and mention because he was really impactful to me earlier in my career. He was analytically minded. He's now the assistant GM of the Jaguars, but he's analytically minded. So he would kind of pick my brain about what I was doing and that would allow me to pick his brain. Now, some of it was for him just not agreeing with

some of what my models came up with. Hey, here's why this guy's good. And me seeing that and being like, okay, well, let me see if I can try and incorporate this context that I'm missing. I'd be in meetings with Kyle in a team meeting and just seeing how he talked about the game made my modeling better because, you know, I'm just – you know, at some point, there's only so much football I know. But now I hear it from him and him talking about our wide zone play and why this matters versus this.

I'm like, well, wow, could I quantify that? And then now I'm off for the next three months trying to quantify this really small thing to make our models marginally better, which would make our outcomes marginally better. So that was kind of my process there. You know, at the time you're going through it, it's tough because, you know, you're coming up with a perspective that other people don't have. And there sometimes is that, you know, I don't want to say adversarial, but just, you know, not able to communicate what I mean. And I got so much better after the fact. And I have such great relationships with all those guys now.

We talk about those old days and how much we all learn from each other, really. I wouldn't be here without all those people and all those interactions. So what was the biggest adjustment when you got the job here as general manager? Again, I think people think that you just make all the decisions and you have your laptop in there and you go, trade. But I don't think it think that you just make all the decisions and you have your laptop in there and you go trade uh but i don't think it works that way quite uh but over the like how far have you come over the last couple of years that's exactly right you know i think you know these are buildings these are organizations there's a lot of people whose livelihoods are at stake with

you know with whatever happens when i hit that button. And you got to build consensus. But consensus is hard because not everybody's going to agree. Football's a sport where it's complex. And there's a lot of different ideas that people can have. And they're right. But we got to make one decision. And I've tried to take this definition of consensus to mean you don't all have to agree, but we all have to live with it and support it.

How do we get us to a place where we can all live with it and support it and understand the why behind? Hey, I am validating people who want to go left even when I want to go right. And so and from my standpoint, I'm always I'm just wired to be open minded. I just, you know, just from my experiences in life, when somebody smart challenges an opinion I have, I go do more work. I go take what they've said and I have a process for figuring that out. And sometimes you come out and say, look, I see what you see. Here's why I think the answer is going to be different. But I just think it's irresponsible of the leader to hire talented people and then not take their opinion to mean something. So I'd say that's

probably the biggest area of growth, being open-minded, but at some point you got to just decide and make a decision and just know that you're going to be the most accountable person in the room. And good or bad, left or right, up or down, you live with that. That's definitely been a growth area for me. I think just overall being the guy who's managing lots of people versus a contributor to management is a very different situation. One more thing for you. So you're a big Wolves fan now and watching the NBA a lot. You and I debated over Anthony Edwards' comp. Personally for me, it's Vince Carter.

You think he'd be better. Everybody's saying it's Michael Jordan. That's a little much for me. It's a little much for me considering when I grew up watching Michael Jordan. But when you look over at them, at the Wolves and where they are now, that's where you want this team to be. You want people to be talking about your best players as Michael Jordan and competing for a championship. Is there anything you take from them and take from how they do things, how they have built that roster to be in this position where they are now? A hundred percent. You know, I talk to Tim often.

Just become a good friend, a really great guy. But I will go back to the Anthony Edwards thing. I grew up the same era as you did. There's a couple times he makes a couple moves where I'm just like, I know what that looks like, man. And, like, you don't want to say it because we revere the goats for a good reason. But, man, there's a couple times where you're just like, man, I know what that looks like.

That feels really familiar. And he's got that dog mindset. I know people questioned it coming out, but I don't know. I watch a player who is trying to put a team on his back and go win a championship. But I take a lot from their team building. They have a lot of core pieces, obviously, that one main piece, but they also took some risk with the Rudy Gobert trade, which people, you know, there's always going to be, there's always going to

be things that you do that are kind of within the lines, but every organization, I believe to get to that top of the mountaintop is going to take something. That's going to take some bets, some risks, something that's outside the lines that people are going to be a little nervous about, but that's what it is. Sport design for everybody to go 500. You kind of got to do something to swing outside. that people are going to be a little nervous about, but that's what it, a sport design for everybody to go 500, you kind of got to do something to swing outside. And look,

when you take that swing, that also can give you some odds of going back the other way, but like sitting in the middle probably isn't necessarily always the right thing to do. So taking that, their approach has been just awesome. Just awesome to watch from afar. Well, I guess that's a Dallas Turner versus draft charts,

what you might be describing there. But after taking a look at Dallas Turner, I think that might work out. But anyway, we could talk analytics for hours for sure. But I just thank you for coming on. Really appreciate all of your time. And look, it's okay if you want to label the next thing, you know, it's, it's all right. If you want to give us something to work with competitive rebuild, I'll tell you this. It was actually really helpful. You, you may have hated how many times we said it,

but we understood the plan much better and could see it play out. So give yourself a little credit for that. And you know, your time you're open and honesty at the podium. Sometimes I appreciate that. I appreciate it. And I always enjoy the questions you ask me. Really thoughtful. It's always sometimes nice to get my, I mean, I get a little nerd crutch up there when I know you're going to get me something that I can, you know, talk through. And so really always appreciate you out there, man.

Absolutely. Kwesi Daffa-Mensa, thanks so much for coming on. Our boss. Folks, we all have smartphones and we know that they are pretty amazing, but they can All right, boss. It sells phones, wants us to put down our phones and see what we can find. Learn more at uscellular.com slash built for us. That's uscellular.com slash built for us. I'm going to tell you the truth. I set up tonight's live stream with the plans to have Manny Hill join me. And I actually set up the topic for Manny

Hill, who is downright a Minnesota Vikings historian. And just as we were about to go on, his internet went down and there's storms kind of coming through and he lost his power for a minute. And so he's trying. Usually we get into the show before manny freezes but this time he froze before the show so man he's going to try to get his internet back up and going and we'll join if he is able to as always we'll go and chat for a little while here as we as we usually do and we'll have some fun so i'll read the headline of this episode and we can get all of your guys reaction we could talk and chat a little bit more about the draft what's coming up next for the vikings and maybe a little bit i wrote out the depth chart i want to go through that a little bit about what

they could still do and maybe what they still need to do but let's just start out with which quarterback in history is most like JJ McCarthy, which quarterback could he most be like, which quarterback is the bar for JJ McCarthy to be a success and which is the most likely. That's what was on my mind for Manny, who loves to talk about this so much. And Manny will appear at some point, whether it's tonight or later on, but just in terms of, um, you know, this question though, let's dive into that first. And then if Manny has a chance to jump on, then that will be great. And if not, again, we'll connect with him another night. Uh, as you guys know, Manny always welcome on the show. The first guy that came to mind of who JJ McCarthy could be like for me was somebody that he doesn't remind you of when it comes to velocity of him running, but could actually have

a lot of the elements of this quarterback. And I wonder if you guys can guess who I'm talking about when we discuss McCarthy and he is a pretty good athlete, but he's most known for the intangibles, how well he understands the game, the leadership element. There's a little bit of playmaker in the guy, but what you're talking about most is somebody who can be the face of your franchise. That's going to put the ball to the right place. Maybe isn't perfect as a thrower, maybe isn't perfect as a playmaker and all those things, but he can do all the right things that you ask him to do. Now, immediately, a couple of you are saying Fran Tarkenton, please do not say Fran Tarkenton.

That's like comparing someone to Mahomes. Fran Tarkenton, when he retired, was considered one of the three to five best quarterbacks to ever pick up a football. So we just can't do that. We just can't do that. He went to four Super Bowls. He's just an unbelievable, wait, was it four, three, three Super Bowls, unbelievable player, all-time great quarterback. We cannot compare the guy they just drafted to one of the true greatest quarterbacks in the history of American football. Okay. We can't do that. So it's gotta be anybody else throw out Fran Tarkenton, anybody else who is he similar to? I am going with somebody who is a little bit taller and not as

fast, but that would be Brad Johnson. And here's why the lack of unbelievable tools. And I know that he has good, good tools, good arm, and he can run and so forth. Yes, Brady, that's the other one that we should always stay away from. He went to Michigan like Brady, but Brad Johnson is who I'm thinking of that. He was able to execute the offense. He could get the ball to his playmakers hands. He won a heck of a lot of games as the quarterback of the Minnesota Vikings and was somebody that you really wanted leading your football team. He went to Washington and he won, he went to Tampa Bay and he played with a great team and he won a Superbowl there.

And he played really good football for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers when he had great wide receivers, great running game, and was able to win a Super Bowl with a great defense. As a member of the Vikings, he was consistently successful, though not flawless, not perfect. It wasn't like Brad Johnson was throwing 50-yard bombs all over the place. And I don't expect J.J. McCarthy to do that either, but there was a lot of value in Brad Johnson being able to get under center, throw the ball to the right places. It also took a little while for Brad Johnson to develop.

Now, he was not a first-round pick, of course. He was much later. It might have even been ninth round because he had been a basketball player. But you could see, even despite Brad Johnson's size, you could see where those little athletic elements would come in. And it's more than just how fast you run or how hard you could throw the ball is not just athleticism. It's catching your own pass and running it for a touchdown, the way he could move around,

the fluidity with which he threw the football. All those things went into Brad Johnson's athleticism. And there are parts of that that remind me of McCarthy, where Brad Johnson throwing the football was not always flawless. It didn't have the Warren Moon type of spin. It didn't have the Jeff George type of whip it and launch it down the field. But he was always that guy as the captain, the guy who's leading the ship. And they were able to do a lot with him as their quarterback.

The other part of it, too, is that J.J. McCarthy did not put up the hugest statistics in college. I don't think Brad Johnson ever put up massive statistics when he was in college. And, and you know, I don't know that he will in the NFL either. I don't know if JJ McCarthy is going to be the type of quarterback that's going to put up, you know, 40 or 50 touchdowns a year in the the nfl all right looks like we've got them oh look who it is it's manny hill manny the internet is back i was joking before you got here that that the internet usually freezes on you once it just happened to freeze on you before as opposed to making your head freeze so let me let say hello. What's going on? How are you?

It's been a little while. Yeah, it usually freezes on me about eight minutes into the 8 o'clock hour. This time it was like 10 minutes before the 8 o'clock hour. Yeah, like literally everything in my apartment shut off. Like everything, it just went to black. Internet, routers, all that stuff just went put kaput and so that was a struggle the power came back after about a minute or so and then uh the internet and my router and stuff needed to reboot and so it was a big cluster but

here i am here you are it's great to see you and i can't wait to get all of your opinions on what the Vikings did in the draft. And I was telling everybody that I curated this topic just for you. So I was trying to work my way through it by myself, but I felt really alone here out on an Island. I'm like, I need Manny for the historical comps here to JJ McCarthy. But I want you to take a guess If you didn't overhear while I, while you were waiting for me to pop you in who I was comparing JJ McCarthy to the first guy. And I haven't worked my way through this.

We've got some time to talk through on the show. The first one that popped into my mind for a quarterback that I think JJ McCarthy could end up being like in Vikings history. And of course people already said Fran Tarkington, and that was not something that he could be so um I'm probably wrong on this well okay I'll do this I'll give my my my comp I actually when when the Vikings drafted J.J. McCarthy the other night, I, the first person that actually came to my mind was Teddy Bridgewater with a stronger arm.

That's kind of what I thought about is, you know, a guy who's really highly regarded by his teammates known as a great leader, um, can step into a situation and, and, and be productive if you need him to be,

you know, and Teddy, Teddy's aren't, Teddy didn't have a bad arm but it you know he didn't exactly have a rocket j.j mccarthy's got a really strong arm that was that's one of his physical traits that he's got going for him so i i kind of thought of like a stronger arm teddy bridgewater is what you know i kind of envisioned him uh to be going forward I like that, and I definitely see that. The way that he immediately can communicate with his teammates, and that's what everybody talks about, is just how well he dials into his teammates. Kweisi D'Affolmenta talked about that.

Kweisi used sort of a modern term of emotional intelligence. That's a hard one,, I think for people to connect on. All that means is that he's just good at connecting with people, that he understands people, he can read people and that he can, you know, get into somebody's ear if they need that, or he can pat somebody on the back if they need that. He understands his teammates and what they need from him that is a very good trait to have as a quarterback teddy had that in spades i did an article a few years ago about how each player had been impacted by teddy ridgewater in their career so adam thielen stefan diggs xavier rhodes a bunch of different guys from the 2017 team told individual stories just about how

he made them a better player as he went along. And that you could see from someone like JJ McCarthy, as he grows into this role. The other part was the maturity element from the person. McCarthy looks extremely young to me after looking at, you know, Sean Mannion, who was 29 going on 47 and Kirk cousins. And, you know, Josh Dobbs is a grownup. Nick Mullins is a grownup. Even Jaron Hall is 25. This is the youngest quarterback that I've been at a press conference with and looked very young, but did not act very young. And that was impressive. I thought the same way with Teddy Bridgewater, where he was one of the younger quarterbacks in the draft that year, but he did never acted like that. He never acted like he was immature. However, I did not go with

him. I went with a faster, slightly smaller Brad Johnson. That's what I went with because my thought was, I don't view JJ McCarthy is throwing the prettiest football. It's not like it comes out like CJ Stroud or something. And he is a good athlete and which I think Brad was in his own gigantic way of moving around in his earlier years, but getting the ball to the right place at the right time and being a leader and having some grit to his game. And maybe you don't look at the stats and go oh my gosh wow those are the most incredible stats i've ever seen but brad johnson was good at continuing the offense to move not making a whole heck of a lot of mistakes and then when he was with the right team it showed when he had great receivers when he had a great defense he was able to take a team and win the super bowl

in tampa bay and if that's what jj mccarthy becomes which is the other part of the conversation then i think that that is a really good outcome for the vikings and one you can win with i'm not saying that mccarthy doesn't throw it fast but i'm saying he doesn't throw the prettiest football that's different that he does throw you know it sprays it a little bit and it isn't always like flawlessly accurate. I don't think that anyone said that that was really his thing at this moment. He's going to have to improve that. And sometimes it was that way with Brad where he's, you know,

that ball comes out. It's not perfect, but he got it to the right place enough, operated the offense, led the team. And there you have it. Like that's a quarterback that you can win with. I, that was my comparison. I like it. I like it. Brad Johnson was a tough SOB, man. That guy was gritty. And like you said, he was a great leader, won a lot of games in his, in his time with the Vikings when he was starting quarterback. They went to the playoffs multiple times with him.

Yeah, he was good, man. And obviously, like you said, you get him in the right situation where he's got good wide receivers to throw to, a good offensive line, a solid running game, and a really good shutdown defense. He's going to thrive. And it feels like with J.J. McCarthy, it's going to be the same type of thing.

If Vikings can continue to rebuild this defense, he's got the weapons, the targets to throw to, an offensive line that's really, really solid. Still need to find a left guard. Still need to find that part of it. But you've got four of the five spots on the offensive line that are in pretty good shape. Especially with the two tackles.

So, and, and you've got, you know, I think what should be a productive run game, if Kevin O'Connell really, you know, designs a run scheme that's going to be conducive to what Aaron Jones and Ty Chandler can do to allow them to be productive. And, you know, JJ is going to be in a really good situation. That's going to allow him to really, to really thrive. And obviously there there's things that he's going to have to work on.

He's 21 years. Like, and when you say he's 21 years old, this kid just turned 21 in January. Like he's been of legal age to drink for three months, going on four months now. So he's very, very young. And I also hope, too, that Vikings fans will be very patient with him because he is young. He does have a lot of maturity, which is, you know,

there's a lot to like there. The physical tools, there's a lot to like there the physical tools there are there's a lot to like there as well but it's so rare for a guy that young to step in and just be all world right away out of the gate so i just hope people are patient with him uh when he does you know finally see the field whenever that's going to be some very serious ups and downs in the comment section with attempting to compare jj mccarthy to historical quarterbacks uh play style wise he is not like fran tarkington fran tarkington would drop back and scramble and scramble and make crazy plays down the field that's not what mccarthy did in college at all he was a play within the system guy that when things broke down,

he was capable of scrambling and making a play, but he is not like that's Caleb Williams. The way that Caleb Williams plays is exactly what, what Fran Tarkenton did, where the play broke down and it was run around, run around, run around, dodge tacklers, and then make a play down the field. And, uh, at the time he would have been like the original Mahomes at the time that Fran Tarkenton was doing it, but no, that's not, it, at the time he would have been like the original Mahomes at the time that Fran Tarkenton was doing it, but no, that's not, it's not really how he plays. Uh, I mean, is he athletic and mobile enough to be Randall Cunningham? Like, no, never. Not even close. Uh, Randall Cunningham is one of the great athletes in NFL history. So no, that's more like Jaden Daniels, probably.

Let's see. He is very much not Case Keenum. Nope. Nowhere close. Case Keenum had no arm whatsoever and really was not very accurate at all and played at Houston until he was like 20 something years old and threw for a million yards when he was at Houston. There's almost no one farther away from Case Keenum than J.J. McCarthy, who is 6'3", by the way. And Case Keenum, I think maybe was 6'1". I don't know what he's listed at, but he was not particularly big. What's the difference between Mac Jones and J.J. McCarthy outside of almost everything? I'm not sure. Number one is that Mac Jones had one good outside of almost everything I'm not sure number one is that Mac Jones had one good year in college McCarthy actually started more than Mac Jones

he uh was much worse in terms of arm much worse in terms of athleticism when he came out the whole thing was this guy's never going to make a play outside of structure, but that's what J.J. McCarthy does all the time. Yeah, Mac Jones is not a runner at all, like at all. J.J. McCarthy's not a great athlete, but he can run at times and pick up some first downs on occasion. There's a little bit more mobility, I think, with J.J. McCarthy than Mac Jones almost by default. Now we've got Rich Gannon, which I think, I don't hate, I don't hate that.

Somebody who is raw and a very good athlete coming out. I think the story was that new England wanted to make Rich Gannon into a running back. And that's why he ended up as a quarterback for the Vikings. That doesn't sound similar to the 10th overall draft pick, but I could see it as far as the guy hasn't played a ton of football at quarterback and he is going to have to work through that as he starts his career just that lack of actual experience and plus Gannon was a great athlete so as McCarthy Gannon was not the most accurate though with the football which may

be an issue for McCarthy as he starts his career yeah I mean if if we're talking about you know Rich Gannon winning the MVP in 2002 if if if J.J. McCarthy gets to that level that's that's good because Rich Gannon was very good in 2002. I think if you're a Vikings fan, you just have to hope it doesn't take like 15 years. Cause Rich Gannon really emerged, you know, he was like 37, 38 years old when he was at, at his best in that MVP season. I would hope that if JJ McCarthy is going to be good, it doesn't take till he's about 37 or 38 before we, before we see him at his peak

but i think if he can get to that level uh that gannon was in 2002 that would be that would be ideal well and gannon had a great team where he became a distributor but he also got to be very very accurate over the years and we saw gannon improve that even as a Viking it got better but then when he went to Kansas City it got better and it just continued to grow throughout his career which of course if you're the Vikings you hope it happens faster than Rich Cannon but again we're talking about a top 10 draft pick here so it's a little bit different uh Terry Bradshaw brought up and so Bradley says that I'm not old enough to have watched Terry Bradshaw. And while that is true, number one,

we have this thing called YouTube and NFL films where I have seen Terry Bradshaw throw the ball. Also fun fact, my college sports writing professor covered Terry Bradshaw and talked about him a lot in, in college or in class. And I can definitely tell you there is nothing similar between J.J. McCarthy and Terry Bradshaw Terry Bradshaw had one of the biggest cannons of all time just an absolute

rock I mean imagine where he would throw the ball to if this was now well they have like good footballs to throw as opposed to these just potatoes that they were throwing back in the day i can't even imagine it did take a beautiful deep ball terry bradshaw i mean the all the nfl films deep ball of you know but it did take him a while to develop there was that i mean i don't see any other similarity but it was it was that that he took a while uh i don't see any similarity really with wade wilson wade wilson was just a mad bomber too how many vikings quarterbacks by the way just like launched the ball down the field all the time that was like what they did that's wade wilson yeah ray wade wilson jeff

george was was like that too just had a rocket and could just like throw it off his back foot 65 yards down the field you know randall cunningham had a really strong arm. They could throw it deep a lot. That's why him and Moss were such a great combination that year. Yeah, I mean, Dante had a great just rocket arm and could launch it, you know, 70 yards if he needed to. Yeah, that's kind of the history. And J.J.'s got a strong arm, but like you said, he just puts so much zip on it.

He's like Roger Clemens trying to throw a fastball over the plate, you know, with every throw that he makes. So that's going to be something that he's going to need to kind of develop and, you know, learn to put a little bit more touch on the ball. And I think Kevin O'Connell will work on that. And, you know, we'll see how it plays out. I see somebody said Sean Salisbury as a comparison. Let's hope not. You better hope not. No offense, Sean Salisbury.

He is one of our media people now. I think he does a sports radio show in Houston, but I think even Sean Salisbury would say that you're hoping for a little bit better than that. Non-Minnesota QB comp is Troy Aikman. Let's not go that far uh troy acheman again was like an iconic quarterback prospect coming out one of the great prospects at ucla to ever be drafted into the nfl but also a guy who sat took a little while to develop and then needed greatness around him to produce multiple Super Bowls.

Don't make me do the Trey Aikman rant, because I will when people downplay Trey Aikman. I will, but I don't think that's quite it. The thing about Trey Aikman is the difference with McCarthy and all these quarterbacks is that I don't think he throws a beautiful football. Not yet. He's going to have to continue to learn to be able to do this. Trey Aikman had one of the most majestically accurate,

just perfect. You teach this to every little kid how to throw the football, just like him. Just watch Super Bowl XXVII. If people want to know how good Troy Aikman was, just watch him absolutely dissect the Buffalo bills defense in super bowl 27. It's he's, it was, it was magical. I'm sorry to bring that up collar, but it was, it, it, it was just a magical performance. He was

outstanding in that game. Um, so I like this one. Uh uh this isn't a vikings one but young jim harbaugh is not bad it actually is not bad it's too obvious a little because michigan and michigan but it's not bad because harbaugh was not perfect throwing the football really good athlete uh when he retired he was one of the tops in rushing yards for quarterbacks and he knew how to lead a team. And that was his biggest thing. And that might be the same for McCarthy. I think I agree that he, with Timothy, that he's more talented than Brad Johnson. I wouldn't call him a better decision maker. We don't know that yet. We're just dealing with, it's supposed to be, he's supposed to be good at decision-making, but that was, that was Brad Johnson's thing is being able to throw it to the right place the right time his timing his

leadership of the offense um but the art the pure arm strength was better but I also think accuracy for him was was pretty good so I mean I don't think there's any perfect comparison he doesn't doesn't really remind me of of Tommy Ky kramer um norm sneed that's pretty good that's pretty good uh if we're going outside of him i don't think i have mentioned this to you my comparison for going back a little ways was uh matt hasselbeck yeah yeah i could see matt hasselbeck that's i i like that comp i like that comp a lot um you know haselbeck. I like that comp. I like that comp a lot. Hasselbeck wasn't a great athlete, but he could run around if you needed him to,

if he needed to pick up a first down. He had the ability to get outside the pocket and run for a first down if he absolutely had to. Not a perfect arm, but an arm that was good and was accurate he knew where to throw the football he knew exactly where where to put it and you know Hasselbeck was another one of those guys that it took him a little bit you know he was a backup in Green Bay um and then went to Seattle and took him a couple years with Holmgren to really kind of get it together but when he did when he was at his best when they they went to the Super Bowl and played the Steelers, you know, Hasselbeck was at his best.

And he had a really good team around him, had a good offensive line, had one of the best running backs in the league, had MVP in Sean Alexander. Defense was pretty good. Everything just kind of came together for him that year. And it allowed him to kind of be at his best. And that's kind of, I think, with J.J. McCarthy,

if we're thinking about how good he's going to be, I think it's the Matt Hasselbeck type where he's probably never going to be in the conversation for being the best quarterback in the league, but you put a good enough team around him he can be very productive and you're going to have a chance you're going to have a chance to compete and and win i'm laughing at the trolling in the comments spurgeon win of course is the funniest answer john elway might be the second funniest answer. Uh, what about Bob says McCarthy is happy Gilmore with a rocket arm instead of a hard slap shot. Um, one of those touch passes,

you just got to tap it in from happy Gilmore. Uh, that's right. That is right though. Everything is a slap shot from him. Uh, Dak Prescott with a slightly better arm. I mean, I think Dak Prescott is a pretty, pretty good arm, uh, but is very accurate, but I I've, I think Dak Prescott is a pretty, pretty good arm, but is very accurate. But I've, I liked that one too. I liked that one too. Lucas says he meant Randall Cunningham 37, but Randall had a cannon. That's the problem. Like throwing his, the thing with JJ McCarthy is that at this moment, he was not very good at throwing the ball deep. He was good at whipping it super hard into traffic and i think that number at the combine to show you how not great that number at the combine can be uh about how like the miles per hour isn't exactly like deep ball doesn't correlate to deep ball is kurt cousins had one of the highest

velocities throwing at the combine because you get to crow hop into the thing. Like you get to give everything you have. It's not like stepping back and throwing a nice, pretty arc on a deep ball, that kind of thing. Um, so yeah, I think with Randall Cunningham, he just had a magical set of skills that had they been better worked with early in his career, that he would have been even better. And he was like borderline hall of fame, Jake Plummer.

I like, I like Jake Plummer for this. Yeah. Yeah. I knew. Yeah. I like Jake Plummer. That's, that's, that's a pretty good one. And Jake was kind of the same mold, about the same size,

about a six, two, six, three type of guy could run around again. Not like a great super athlete you know not a lamar jackson level running athlete but he could run and move around and extend plays if you needed him to arm was pretty good um you know if you he was one another one of those guys where if you put a good team around him he can have success like that denver team in the mid-2000s where he was pretty good same yeah i like the i like jake plumber that's that's a pretty good one so uh what's his peak is a question from duane uh no duane his peak is not brady no one's peak is brady we just need to toss out the all-time greats we talk about just like anybody this was my thing with drake may over draft season

where it would be like well you know drake may could be like josh allen stop pull it back yes i suppose he could but the same thing with like yeah i suppose it's possible that jj mccarthy could win 10 superbowls but i don't think that he will so why don't we be realistic about that uh that peak now giuseppe says hopefully better than hasselbeck i think you're not remembering hasselbeck that well because if you go back to early 2000s he led a ton of winning for the seattle seahawks and of course he wasn't doing it by himself but he was a great play action quarterback enough of a playmaker i'm guessing a better athlete than you guys remember. He was known for his playmaking.

So I think that if he becomes Matt Hasselbeck and in his rookie contract, you have a chance to win a lot of games. Like that's a good outcome, I think. Yeah, if he's 2005 Matt Hasselbeck when the Seahawks went to the Super Bowl, sign me up. I'll take that. Matt Hasselbeck, when the Seahawks went to the Super Bowl, signed me up. I'll take that.

Matt Hasselbeck, 2005, was excellent. He was very, very good, and that was a really, really, really good Seattle team that got to the Super Bowl and ran into a Steelers team that had a lot of momentum and a really great defense, and Antoine Randall-El throwing to Heinz Ward in the Superbowl. That's kind of what they ran into and some questionable calls by the officials as well. Yeah. Yeah. Some of those, some of that too. Yeah. The referees. Uh, hello.

JJ was a five-star recruit. Excellent athlete. Oh, I know. Randall Cunningham is like the greatest athlete of all time. So when we're talking about the changes, a five-star college recruit athlete is here. Greatest NFL athletes are up here. They're on a different plane. They are the Lamar Jackson, the Mike Vick. We're talking about the 1% of 1% human beings to ever step on the planet earth. That is not JJ McCarthy. He's a good enough athlete to make plays. That is the point. And that's one of the reasons that I liked him in the draft. Like as far as when we put down, what are the reasons you would be skeptical or concerned? One of the reasons that you like always in the light category is, Hey, if it's fourth and eight, let's just say Dexter Lawrence breaks through the line of scrimmage. Let's just say totally random situation I'm throwing out here.

Then the quarterback, rather than checking down to TJ Hawkinson, let's just say could scramble and run away and create a play. And that's something that JJ McCarthy could do. But, and that's why I like the, you know, jake plumber thing makes a lot of sense because he was a really good athlete and he could make plays but he was not some insane athlete where he was scrambling and running all over the place and i think that um you know that's what jj mccarthy is going to uh be able to do yeah i mean i i think what you hope for especially you know with like the jake plumber comparison i think what you hope for is that that if if that's what jj mccarthy becomes cool you just hope that like maybe he can sustain it for a longer period of time you know maybe

through a second contract into you know into his late 20s and early 30s maybe i mean plumber you know arizona jake plumber was a little more turnover prone i think uh before he got to denver and and got with a really good team and a good running game with with mike shanahan's you know zone blocking scheme um but i think if if you can get that sort of that 2005 Jake Plummer out of JJ McCarthy and kind of sustain that for like a five, six year period, you're going to have a chance to win, I think, a lot of games during that time. And you're right. I did compare him to Brad Johnson. I did say faster Brad Johnson. That was the, that was the thing. Um, and Brad, I, I just, I do want to give Brad his credit. He was a great basketball player in college. So it's not that he wasn't a good athlete and you saw him juke out a dude and run

for a touchdown, but the running element will be something that is different. Alex Smith is an interesting comparison that the reason that I haven't loved the Alex Smith comparison is, is a detail. And this is getting in the woods a little bit because Alex Smith won a ton of games. It was a really good quarterback, but when Alex Smith had to try to throw on the run, it looked like Jared golf. You know how Jared golf starts to run that just throws the ball right into the ground. Alex Smith did the same thing. He was either put his head down and run or drop back straight and pass where I think McCarthy keeps his eyes down field and can make plays. And I understand, I know Brad Johnson was bigger. I get it. Like I, I, I know that this is

not an exact comparison. I'm talking about kind of a playing style of like, he's not going to put up these wild stats. He's going to be a great leader for them. He's going to get the ball to the right places and he's going to make things happen through leading the offense more so than having crazy Lamar Jackson or whatever type of skills. So, but you know, Alex Smith is pretty fair, except for, I think that there is a much more playmaking element to him than Alex Smith ever had. Yeah. I think in terms of like throwing on the run, I think JJ McCarthy can act, that can actually be like one of his strengths.

That's something that he can do now. Are those throws always going to be accurate? I mean, we don't know that yet, but he does have the ability to, you know, throw the ball and put some good velocity and some good zip on it, you know, as he's kind of throwing off balance or throwing on, you know, throwing on the run. A lot of quarterbacks can't do that. So if he has the ability to do that, which it kind of seems like he does, that's going to be a plus.

That's going to be something plus. That's going to be something that I think works in his favor. Uh, I did indeed dismiss the case Keenum thing, just because we're talking about so much more vastly talented than case Keenum. I mean, we're talking about taller, stronger arm, much faster, all those things. Uh, Alex Smith is actually a really great athlete i think you're missing that one um so there's so much difference between them like 2017 case keenum yeah i mean the locker room factor you could say that the locker room factor if we were picking which specific things about him maybe you have the leadership element of case keenum uh but there's not really

the chip on the shoulder like case Keenum had, which I think really made him a galvanizing player. What was he seventh round or undrafted or whatever it was for case Keenum. And he had this kind of nobody believes in me type of thing. That's not McCarthy. He's just been a front runner. His first high school, he won a championship. His second high school, he won a championship. He goes to college and wins a championship his second high school he won a championship he goes to college and wins a championship he's just been with the best of the best he wasn't really this underdog um i guess people don't remember brad johnson to understand why this makes sense as a brad johnson type quarterback um but i guess you're just gonna have to go back and watch some early vikings games don't watch the one where brad is 38 watch br Brad in his earlier days and the way that he plays. Yeah, and also, right, Keenum threw for a gazillion yards in college

and played forever. I think he played five years in college. So pretty much different on a lot of different levels. Sorry, go ahead. Well, I was going to say Case had a couple of, I think he had like a couple of acls while he was at houston and had some like medical red shirts which kind of allowed him to play for an extended period of time there and and he was like starting i think as a freshman when he was

at houston so like he played a lot of games racked up a lot of yards set a lot of ncaa records i don't know how many of those have been broken since, but Case played a long time in college. And he wasn't, you know, Case wasn't very big either. Like, he's not, you know, J.J. McCarthy is a good 6'3", and I think he's put on a little bit of weight

since college, so he's probably up to about 215, 220 pounds maybe. I mean, Case was like 6 feet and like 200 pounds 205 something like that it just wasn't it's not it's really not the same thing at all but i understand where they're coming from as far as a players like you know like that guy and and want to you know sort of around him the leadership yeah the presence is a great word for it yeah so um anyway it's so interesting to just get different people's viewpoints on what this quarterback could be what's the bar though

what does who does he have to be as good or better than in his vikings career for you to say it was a hit man and this is a weird one because there's so many one great season quarterbacks but that also presents a question like if he was to have only one great year as a viking but it was like case keenum's year where he played extremely well and went to the nfc championship or something and then never did anything again would that be a success that's almost what baker mayfield did with uh cleveland except for they didn't quite get there um But then there's other quarterbacks who lasted longer, but did not have a lot of success. And then there's a guy who just left,

which would be an interesting comparison to ask if that would be a success. That's okay. That's where I want to want you to start. I wanted to start with if he, if he has Kirk's time here, if he plays here through his rookie contractor six years and and plays exactly like Kirk Cousins was that a successful draft pick uh well I think it's gonna I think it would depend on how much winning they do

that's all I think that's really what it's going to come down to because if he's you know if he puts up the same type of numbers that kirk put up but if the vikings are you know a middling 500 team that makes the playoffs like twice and you know they don't really go very far either in either trip to the playoffs. It's hard for me to view that as a success if you drafted a quarterback 10th overall. Like that, like you got to have, you got to have more than that. I mean, the Buffalo Bills, what they've gotten out of Josh Allen, you know, they've been in the playoffs every year since 2019.

He's an MVP candidate every year. They go, you know, they're like legit Super Bowl contenders, you know, for a number of years. The Vikings never have gotten that with Kirk Cousins in six years. He was productive and the numbers were there, but there wasn't really a lot of winning at a high level. So I think that to view J.J. McCarthy as a success, the Vikings are going to have to really put themselves in a position to contend for a Super Bowl. It doesn't necessarily mean they have to get to the Super Bowl and win it, but if they can find themselves in an NFC title game or two in the next six years, then I would say, yeah, that's a, that's a pretty successful run. It's a really difficult question to answer because if someone put up those types of numbers that you drafted with a first round pick, and I'll give you an example of a guy who's exactly like this in a second,

then it's really hard to say, wow, you totally blew it. If you didn't win i think we would point fingers at other people which of course a lot of people wanted to do with kirk cousins during his entire time here but the fact that it's an inexpensive version will mean someone screwed up elsewhere pretty badly whether it was the draft free agency coaching whatever it might have been or bad luck which tends to befall the vikings occasionally throughout their history but something will have to have gone wrong if you are that cheap and you put up those types of numbers that was always the issue with cousins that it came back to well he's so expensive that he's got to play better than what he's doing the bar is very very

high because you can't build a top notch roster. That actually sounds like Justin Herbert. If he becomes Justin Herbert through his rookie contract, I think we're saying as a pick, it was a success. As a franchise, it was a failure, which actually kind of works for Kirk, by the way. As an individual signing, he played better football than he played in Washington, which means it was a good signing for the way that he played. He gave you more than even what you would have expected as a franchise. It was a failure because you didn't win anything. We're

probably going to have to separate those two things. But I also have to say, if he plays like Kirk, they should win more because the team should be better around. Yeah, because you're going to have the flexibility of the rookie of the rookie quarterback contract. You're going to have a ton of cap space in 2025 for for Quasey to to go out and cook and sign, you know, fill holes that you need on defense and, you know, whatever holes you might have on offense at that point and really build a contending team, that's going to be kind of the advantage that they have that the Vikings didn't really have for six years with Kirk Cousins because his contract was taking up so much of the cap

that they had to kind of nickel and dime their way in free agency and get creative with, you know, extending extending certain guys by restructuring their contract to free up. You know, we got to free up three million dollars in cap space so that we can go sign a, you know, a third level guard and, you know, hopefully fill that hole. So, hey, you know, Eric Kendricks, let's restructure your contract. You know, so that's the advantage that they're going to have, I think, you know, with J.J. McCarthy over the course of these next handful of years to really kind of build a team around them.

And they're going to have that. And they put him in a position where he can have success early on too. And you can have a really good sense of like how good he is. And you can decide like, okay, we've surrounded this kid with all of this talent. How is he, how is he going? How is he progressing? You know, is he good enough to, to where we can, we can win with him? You know, we're building a good roster around him. Is he good enough? You can be able to really, I think, figure that out over the next five years. So a few interesting things in the comments.

Clifford said he needs to make the playoffs more than not and at least two Super Bowl appearances in order to be a success, which is a bar, I would say, far high but what is a what is a reasonable bar and not kevin o'connell says uh will jj mccarthy get more playoffs than kirk cousins more playoff wins so that just means one well an interesting way two two interesting things there number one being what is the actual bar that they need to achieve with JJ McCarthy to be considered a success? I mean, always, of course, everyone says reach a Superbowl. That is what you need. I agree. Multiple Superbowls is a little absurd since Drew Brees was only in one Superbowl,

but is that right? Yeah. So that's, you know you know okay maybe a little bit on the high side there dan marino uh only with the one super bowl but will he win an over under of will he win 0.5 playoff games or more as a viking or i guess will he have more so it'd be 1.5 is it over 1.5 this is very i like this more or less than 1.5 playoff wins for jj mccarthy as a viking what do you think i'm gonna say more i'm gonna say more and that's and i think that kind of speaks more to my optimism with what they've done in this in this draft by getting him and you know moving up to get Dallas Turner as well um obviously there there's a little bit of a shortage in draft picks now because of all the maneuvering that they've done uh for this draft but um they're

going to have a lot of cap space and they're really going to be able to I think build this roster the way that they want. And like we keep saying, you know, he's got tools to work with already walking in. He's got so much more to work with than somebody like Drake May. If you were to ask me how many playoff games is Drake May going to win with New England for the next, you know, six, seven years, I have no idea because I have no idea if they're going to be able to put a good enough roster together around them because right now they have nothing, and it's probably going to take them a little while.

I think J.J. has got a little bit of a head start in terms of what he's got to work with offensively and an offensive-minded head coach who's really going to take his time and put in a lot of effort to develop him and everything. And I think they're going to be in a pretty good position in the next couple of years to potentially win a couple of playoff games. So I'll say, I'll say definitely more. I got to put this on the screen, give this guy credit. The name is guard guy and says, I'm always down to sign a guard so there is there's guard guy guard guy shows up we've all become guard guy this offseason i don't know what is going on over there left guard uh dalton riser's just gonna come back at a cheaper price maybe i

guess so um over if you were if you were a gambler, just knowing the odds, just knowing the odds, you would say under just, just the odds because already drafting a quarterback is a 50, 50 split anyway. Now I think that McCarthy, his odds are weighed in the favor of being more successful because of all the things, as you mentioned, that the Vikings can give him. But if you're just asking me about any quarterback, the 10th overall pick quarterback, one and a half playoff wins, will he win multiple playoff wins during his career with whatever team? You would probably just go no on principle, except for maybe the number one overall pick, because those guys have a different history than everybody else. If someone's a number one overall pick quarterback bust,

we talk about it for a century. So that's a little bit different. Like with Caleb Williams, you would probably bet the over with him, but everybody else, I don't know. And with the Drake May thing, it does bring us to another part of the conversation I wanted to ask you

about. Now, as far as, as far as me, I think he will, I think he will win more than 1.5 playoff games especially since there is a seven team playoff now which is unnecessary but helps you with your chances to win an extra playoff game if it isn't more it's a failure oh yes i agree

if it isn't more than it didn't work out it's just when you consider the odds uh then you know it's just the reality of this is that most quarterbacks who are drafted probably don't win multiple playoff games uh overall but in under these circumstances i think that he probably will and yes it would be a total failure the the dra may thing, by the way, it came out today, what the Vikings offered for Drake may, or at least what someone is being told that the Vikings offered for Drake may, they didn't announce it or send out an email that says we offer this,

but the offer Manny was the three firsts that we all expected it to be 1123 next year's first round pick. And they wanted three and some middle round stuff back from the new england patriots there was some framing of it that made it sound like they wouldn't do it unless they got the mid-round stuff back i don't know that i just know that that is the offer uh what was your impression of that offer should they have gone more did they go as far as they possibly could was new england not giving it up unless they signed over the deed to u.s bank stadium like what is your opinion on

the offer that was reported that the vikings gave the patriots i thought that was about as far as they should have gone um it it really kind of seemed the way everything kind of played out and the reports that we got from like adam schaefter saying like there was zero chance the Patriots were going to move that pick. It just really kind of felt like it was going to take like everything to get that pick from the New England Patriots, which means that to me that they really had no intention of ever really moving that pick because they wanted Drake May and they were going to take him and not look back. But as far as like what the Vikings were willing to give up, I think that's a honestly that's about especially when you're considering that this is a this was a very quarter, this was a very good quarterback class, this, this draft class, you know, unless you are just absolutely in love with Drake may,

and it's Drake may or nobody else that we want as our next quarterback. I just, I think they went about as far as they could because I, you know, they had other options, you know, you know, so I think that that in itself, what they did offer was a lot to move up eight spots know I think in hindsight now when you look at what they were able to pull off by getting McCarthy and still you know being able to hang on to that 23 pick move up to get Dallas Turner at 17 I think that was actually the better outcome to me in terms of like what the Vikings want to do long term so I thought that's a lot to give up. And I'm kind of glad now that they didn't give up all of that because I think they came out pretty good out of that first round. So Dwayne says by the offer, the Vikings considered McCarthy closer to May than

initially expected. I look at it the opposite way. If they were willing to trade three firsts to get one of the guys and let the other one fall to them and only moved up one spot when they thought Denver might jump over them, then I think the gap was maybe bigger than people expected. The gap was supposed to be one pick and it ended up being seven picks. It was supposed to be, maybe they only trade up 11 and 23. It ended up being, they trade up nothing essentially versus giving up three firsts i think that may was the guy that they far and away wanted more than anybody else to be able to put three first round picks on the table and as they said repeatedly believe that he would be someone that could make up the difference and carry a team and

it very well may ultimately be the right move. I mean, historically, if you're QB three or QB five, both taken in the top 10, I think your odds are pretty close. Even if the scouting reports favored one guy over the other, just, we know that, you know, the order of where they're drafted hasn't really been all that indicative of which guys succeed and which don't, uh, theosh allen draft number three and number five end up being the best quarterbacks by a country mile over one and two and four so i mean who can predict this once they're actually on teams and so forth the the thing about the offer is if you start giving up any more than that if you start giving up christian derisaw or something,

then you are punching massive holes in the thing that's supposed to help your quarterback succeed. Now, if he was to become Josh Allen, then of course you can find some other Schmo to play left tackle and he'll just run away from the guy and be a legend, but he has to be a legend. And then in case he brought this up, he said like, what are the odds that the guy becomes that maybe one in 10 that anybody becomes

what Josh Allen is. So, uh, you know, I, I just understand where they would have to draw a line and go, well, what if, what if he's Matthew Stafford? I mean, we saw when a team was not that great with Matthew Stafford, even though he was extremely talented, but when the lions weren't good around him, he didn't win a lot. He would get to seven, eight, nine wins and be limited. So the, the bar for trading up everything to get may is so high that he almost has to become a top five quarterback in order for it to actually work. And with McCarthy and not giving up almost anything. Now the bar is what, what, what level of quarterback is Jalen hurts?

What level of quarterback is, you know, Brock Purdy? They're probably 10 ish somewhere in that range by their talent, but then moved up and up, uh, by the team that is around them. And that's what you're trying to do with JJ McCarthy. It's a very, but what's more likely that you can put a team around McCarthy and have him succeed with that, or that the other guy becomes Josh Allen. It's probably much more. We've seen it many more times that, you know, Jared Goff can be pumped up early in his career by the Rams, for example. Or, like I said, Hurts or Brock Purdy. We've seen this a number of times with great teams and those quarterbacks.

So I think that they made the right decision not moving that offer any farther. I guess that's the final verdict for me. I also think the Patriots were just not doing it almost no matter what yeah that's kind of the overall sense I got it like I just don't think they had any real in real serious intention of moving that pick unless you did like a Mike Ditka for Ricky Williams type of thing where you just say all right Elliot Wolfe here here's our whole draft you're gonna have whatever you want you know then maybe then you know New England pulls the trigger on a deal but I think they they identified Drake May as their guy and they were they were set on that and they were going to take him and and not look

back and I think it's you know the thing of it is is if if you give up more than what the Vikings offered and then you swing and miss on Drake May've swung and missed on this quarterback and you've given up, you know, so much for him. So you don't really have a lot of draft capital to sort of make up for that and sort of clean up that swing and a miss. You know, the 49ers could afford to give up what they gave up to move up and get Trey Lance because they had built such a really good team. You know, John Lynch has done such a great job and Kyle Shanahan, such a terrific coach that they could endure, you know, swinging and missing on Trey Lance because of the great roster that they had really already kind of built up to that point.

You know, the Vikings are the Vikings have a have a good set of players on the team, but they're not a finished product yet. And if you swing and miss can't even like, at that point, you can't even like say, Oh, Drake may is bad. So we'll just draft another young quarterback. Well, you don't have any, you don't have any first round picks to do that at that point. So I think ultimately it's, it's, it's worked out good for the Vikings. They still got a guy we talked about for weeks, you know, before the draft that ultimately like the vikings just have to get out of this draft with a young quarterback who the hell cares who it is at

this point just identify a guy and and plug him into your roster and start to develop him and try to rebuild this thing into a contender in a couple of years uh what if he becomes brock osweiler is uh asked in the comments well then we will be talking about a coaching change in a few years i guess i mean that goes for everyone who's just not great like that's why when we talk about these comparisons we talk about what the bar is versus vikings quarterbacks who succeeded we talk talk about comps of guys who were good in the NFL, and then it's different layers of good because we all know if it's bad, there's a hundred different quarterbacks who are bad, and then you know what's going to happen there.

You're going to lose, and you're not going to make the playoffs, and they're going to look at this quarterback decision as, well, I guess you didn't make the right one, and so you're probably not going to survive that. And they all know it. But when it comes to McCarthy, one of the questions earlier that I scrolled by was about whether O'Connell looks as excited now as he did pre-draft in his press conferences. And what I would say is that once you've made the decision, I'm sure the terror sets in like, now we got to make it work. Now, now this has to be right. Like we go through this

whole process. We do all those things and it's all right. We're getting this quarterback. We're getting them. But exact same thing happens when you buy a car, you go to the car lot and you look at it, all the cars and you're like, okay, look at them all they're so fast and shiny and then you bring it home and you're looking out at it and going i hope i got the right car because i looked at 11 different cars this happens uh you know when we buy the house you move into the house like i think we made the right decision house hunting is so much fun you go in you look around you go oh there's a toilet in the basement that's weird this is a cool look at this backyard that did happen by the way we just random toilet in the basement of a place that we visited like what is that doing there but all these people they must have done this so this is so exciting then you buy the house you go all right it's time to move

in let's hope that it's not haunted and like the same thing as you draft a quarterback. Let's hope he's not haunted because all the other quarterbacks in Vikings history were. Yeah. I mean, do you think the Chicago Bears aren't thinking that? Oh, they're nervous. Yeah. They have the number one pick. They got the guy that everybody would have wanted.

But Matt Eberflus, especially Matt Eberflus, has to like, he's thinking, okay, this has got to work. We've got to make this work. And if it doesn't look good early on, I'm going to be out of a job. You know what I mean? So that's the league, man. You take a quarterback and it's got to work. I've been saying it leading up to the draft. People were asking me, my friends, and people were texting me just saying, like, oh, well, who do you think the Vikings should take?

Which quarterback? If you were the Vikings, which quarterback do you want? I said, well, you know, I like Drake May a lot. And I said, but honestly, I don't really care who they take. It just needs to be the right guy. Ultimately, it just needs to work, whoever it is. I don't care. Just whoever they take, it's just got to be the right guy and it's got to work out.

And if it doesn't, people are going to get fired. That's just the way the NFL works. Yeah. And that's why what I did the other night was when they picked McCarthy, we had all sorts of discussions, super fun throughout draft season, picking apart every element of these quarterbacks, but just said, all right, now, now we're going to wash away whatever we thought draft time. And, you know, there's always going to be people who think that he's the next Joe Montana or Troy Aikman. And

there's going to be people who think he's the next, you know, who from 2011 and just take what you thought and just wash it away because we're going to start getting new information about this player. And we're going to start learning about what he really is in the NFL. And none of that stuff that he did before actually matters. And none of our opinions about him before actually matter because now he's the Vikings quarterback. And we work with that. Uh, rookie mini camp should be in a week or so. I think maybe next week, it's usually a week after the draft ends up happening. Another question was about polls versus Casey in the rebuild competitive rebuild versus the tank. As far as Vikings versus bears, Manny, I think that both teams are well-equipped to be contenders

for a long time. There is really no question though, which team has better odds of that. And that is the Chicago bears. It's just a fact. Number one, overall picks have the highest ceiling of anybody, especially guys that are considered to be talents of the level of Caleb Williams. I'm sure someone will immediately say,

he's going to be a bust. Like, well, for your sake, then that would be nice for you. If that was what actually happened. But by the odds, I think Chicago has the best chance where the Vikings are trying to even the score is they have the all world receiver of all world receivers. They also have, I think,

a better coach set up to help their quarterback succeed. And that would be where I, they, I believe they have the advantages. I don't think they have too many other advantages. Matt Eberflus is a good defensive coach. That may be their disadvantage is that they have a defensive coach. Williams is a better prospect by quite a bit than JJ McCarthy. That doesn't mean he'll be better. It just means he's a better prospect.

They added now a great receiver proven and drafted a great receiver prospect to go along with Montez Sweat, who they acquired a bunch of other draft capital they've put into it. They have more going for them than the Vikings. And guess how many wins each team had along the way from 2022 to now in the postseason, they both had zero so it's hard not to say chicago did it better than the vikings at least that's how i look at it i don't know how you look at yeah i see it the same way i mean that they they have made the bears have made some really really sneaky good moves you know getting, getting Montez Sweat was just,

that was just an A-plus move, getting him in the middle of the season like that. And, you know, really getting, taking advantage of a situation that Washington kind of screwed up with him, with contract situations, because they had paid like some other guys and couldn't pay him or didn't want to pay him or whatever.

And he's a good young player and he's going to be good for a while. So that was a really sneaky, good like pickup for them. And, you know, you get you got two top 10 picks in this year's draft because you made a trade, one of them because you made a trade with the Carolina Panthers who were so desperate to trade up and get Bryce Young and so Caleb Williams kind of fell into their lap which I think you could equate to a little bit of luck being on their side too with things kind of working out that way and uh you know and

they're gonna have cap space too they're gonna have money to work with and some flexibility still with you know a rookie scale contract with their starting quarterback so um they're in a good spot i think the the big question with the bears is just going to be like is matt eberflus the right head coach for them like going forward if they're going to ultimately win and contend is he the right guy i don't know if he is or not he's a defensive coach and that you know for whatever, that gets frowned upon in sort of this day and age in the NFL. But who knows?

I mean, it might end up working out for them, and we'll see how it plays out. The Vikings do have some things going for them as well. They're going to have some cap space next year to work with, and they've got a rookie quarterback on a rookie-scale contract, and they've got an offensive-minded head coach. So now it's just kind of like this is why they play the games now.

This is why they go through these off seasons. Everybody's trying to jockey for a position to contend and it's going to come down to who makes which GMs, which GM makes the right moves, makes the right trade, makes the right free agent signing, makes the right moves makes the right trade makes the right free agent signing makes the right draft pick and which coach does a better job in developing their young quarterbacks that's what it's going to come down to when we're talking about percentages which I always kind of look at things through this odds of things happening through that lens Chicago has a better chance to make a Super Bowl with what they've done than the vikings

and even the detroit lions were one quarter away from getting there after they tanked and they turned it around as quickly as they did now that all hinges on whether caleb williams becomes what people think that caleb's williams can become within the next three years or so where they are building this team that has an opportunity by 2025 to be a behemoth i mean it's just so talented already in the way they've rebuilt it and shows that it's i don't want to be bad for 10 years well they were bad for a couple but uh even last year started to show signs of life it's just the reality that they've got a better chance based on what they've

done and who they have now on their team. But in the NFL, we're talking better chance by how much, I mean, only by percentage points because the Vikings have the rookie contract advantage. They have superstar talent on their team and they have very likely better offensive coaching,

which could even the score with the chicago bears the route all of a sudden in the nfc became tougher though if jayden daniels becomes good then it's tougher if you know the other you know quarterbacks that have been drafted recently develop like bryce young then it becomes tougher uh what the nfc is if jordan love continues to play the way he did in the second half of last season, it becomes a lot tougher to be that team. And it's going to take, in my opinion, a 2025 off season kind of for the ages for the Vikings to put out a roster that can be on the same level as what we expect Chicago, Detroit, and Green Bay to have, or even better than them. So I look at it as the way Chicago drafted and it's the world just handed them Roma Dunze as

well. Like nobody wanted to take Roma Dunze. Okay. So you just got to give him to Chicago, give a great weapon to Caleb Williams right away. The track is very difficult now for the Vikings. And that's one of the reasons they had to move on from kirk and do this because kirk was going to win 13 games when two teams were tanking in the division not when this team is stat or these teams are all stacked up as well as they are i was curious manny what else stuck out to you from draft night like what else was on your mind coming out of draft night uh i thought philadelphia did pretty good with getting getting the two corners their first two picks were were were corners they needed to kind of uh sort of retool that defense that defense just

got threaded uh especially like the second half of last year. That defense was really, really bad. So I think getting the two young corners, I think, will help them. I like what Indianapolis did, too, getting the Latu kid from UCLA. That's going to help their... Oh, I took this long for Manny's head to freeze. A tradition like none other. And he was right in the middle of breaking down corners that went to the Philadelphia Eagles. Am I back?

Oh, you're back. Yeah. You're back. Okay. We, we heard, we heard the Philadelphia Eagles part and you compared Cooper to Jean to Jason Seahorn, I think. And that was the last thing that I heard you say.

So what was the next thing? So, yeah, I thought Philly did a good job sort of retooling that defense. I thought Indianapolis did a really good job, too, with with Latu from UCLA, you know, sort of bolstering that defense as well. They got a receiver in the second round to help out Anthony Richardson, too um going forward i think indy's in a in a pretty good spot to you know if anthony richardson can stay healthy and develop um that's i think they're headed in the right direction too they've got a really good um really good head coach there too so philly and indianapolis i liked i like what they did in the draft because i think it's those pieces were good and they're going to help those teams going forward i I want you to recreate for me,

your reaction to Michael Penix going number eight. What, what was that like? I, I, I honestly just laughed. I just, I, and I don't even think I can recreate that laugh. It was, I was just, it's like, come on. It's like I did the first thing that came to my mind is like, come on, you can't make this up. You cannot make this up. It was, it was, it was a shocking, baffling, amazing,

hilarious moment. But, you know, after having a few days to think about it i don't hate it i don't think it was that bad i think you know on the surface it's easy to say well you know you drafted you should have they should have taken dallas turner take an edge rusher that can help you right now well and i like dallas turner i. I'm glad the Vikings were able to get him. But, you know, with these first round picks, you just never know who's going to be able to come in right away and make an immediate impact. Because not all first round picks do that. And so who's to say that if they would have taken somebody other than Michael Penix, if that guy was going to step in and make an immediate impact for them. So I think, you know, there's probably a little bit of concern about, you know,

how long Kirk Cousins is going to hold up over the course of this contract. And I think you have Michael Penix as sort of an insurance policy with some upside as well, with a chance to be a pretty good quarterback. And so, and they've got, they've got young weapons there as well. So if in the event, Michael Penix needs to step in in 2024 and play, I think there's a decent chance he can step in and have some, have some success if Kirk is not able to go. But if you're asking me for my immediate reaction, I laughed. I laughed pretty hard. It was pretty funny. I did too. And I was on the air here and I couldn't stop because I kept thinking about how Cousins gave his speech about money and what it represents and all that. And what he was talking about is the commitment,

that all he wanted was commitment. And then Pellicero had such a good line on TV. He said that it was like cheating on your wife on your honeymoon is what this was like. So if we're making a love comparison, it's just too perfect. The minute he thinks he's landed with a franchise that's truly in love with him, is what this was like so if we're making a love comparison it's just too perfect the the minute he thinks he's landed with a franchise that's truly in love with him they put on the dirty

bird chain he tampers in the first press conference or whatever he admits he's he's tampering and they're just running him everywhere they got him at the Braves game he's at the Masters they're doing everything you could possibly do. And Atlanta, I think Ron Gantz was throwing him slow pitch softballs or whatever. Everybody remembers Ron Gantz. Right. And then they just draft someone else. It's just like,

it's just, it's like so funny that the guy had about 27 days. I'm feeling like, yeah, I'm a big quarterback that everybody loves in Atlanta. And then now buddy, we're still looking toward the future. But I like what Kate said here. It took the Falcons one month to do something the Vikings couldn't in six years. And to your point about not hating it, I advocated for it the whole time he was here. So how could I be against it

when they do it? I brought it up every draft season. And sometimes I would have been right. Sometimes I would have been wrong. I suggested Lamar Jackson. I suggested Jalen hurts. I also may have suggested Mac Jones, hard to say how that turns out, but probably not the highest end, but they had opportunities to draft quarterbacks while Kirk was here and they just never did it. And they never did it. And they never did it. And we kept going, there goes one, there goes one, there goes one. And all these, you're going to have a future of the franchise or any of these guys going to be your, uh, you know, franchise future quarterback. And Atlanta said, we're going to draft for the future. And we don't care if we look really silly for doing it. And I have to respect the fact that they did that

and also think I can't believe that they did that because almost nobody would do this. This is only maybe a Packer thing and they would do it with the 20th pick and not the eighth. So last thought from the draft as a whole, Manny, we did so much leading up to this, talking about it. What are they going to do? Who are they going to get? How are they, you know, where, how does it feel now that it's over? Like, do you feel like Kevin O'Connell we talked about where it's, you know, a little bit,

uh, anxious now? Cause I was thinking about this and I wrote about this the other day, uh, purple insider.com, go see the articles, sign up for the newsletter. But I was thinking about this the other day about how it's not that hard to tear apart a team. It's really hard to build a team that wins. It's easy to get rid of Adam Thielen. It's hard to find the next Adam Thielen. It's easy to cut Eric Kendricks. It's not easy to replace Eric Kendricks. The hard part begins today. It's the most to replace Eric Kendricks. The hard part begins today. It's the most exciting time that's happened in a long time. It's also the most difficult because you don't have that position locked in. You do have the expectations now that you are supposed to raise this to a level that goes beyond what you achieved with Kirk Cousins.

So that's my prevailing feeling is you did it. Mission accomplished for competitive rebuild. Now the true hard part begins. Yeah, a hundred percent. I think it's, I kind of, you know, I'm making a basketball comparison here, but like, it's like when the Timberwolves made the Rudy Gobert trade two years ago, where they gave up all these draft picks to get, you know, a 30-year-old center in a league that typically plays, you know, small ball a little bit more often. My viewpoint was I didn't love that trade when it happened, but my thought was, okay, it's, you know, the Wolves are a big topic around the league now. Everybody's talking about this deal.

But now you've made this big blockbuster trade. Now you've got to win. Now you've got to go out and you've got to get it done. You've got to get yourself in contention to contend for a championship. And now the Wolves have put themselves in a position to do that this year. And it's the same for the Vikings now. All right, you've got your young quarterback. You thankfully did not have to give up a ton of... He'll come back.

Just give him a minute. We got two frozen Manny heads tonight. Usually we only get one. Somebody in the comments earlier said his AOL free month ran out.'s pretty good i like that you guys are funny every time uh how long do we give it i was just i was wrapping up the show and now he's froze and he's frozen like that too which is actually hilarious i mean he's making a great point you can can tell by his head. I think he'll come back in just a second. We'll just give it to him. But yeah, AOL, that goes way back where you had a CD or something you could put in and get a free month of AOL online. There are references that we make on this show that clearly demonstrate that I was born in the 90s. Oh, there you go. And now you're back. Now you're back. I feel like I just time warped back to the nineties too. You just did. Right. Quality of internet. Yeah.

The, the, uh, when you came back, it went boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. Like, uh, your mom can't make a phone call now because you're on the internet, that whole stuff. Yeah, we are, um, we're definitely old. So, uh, carry on with your final thoughts, Manny. Uh, I, I just, you know, I,, you know, I think ultimately you got what you wanted, what you ultimately set out to achieve. You got your young quarterback. Now it's just time to go to work. You got J.J. McCarthy.

It's not a foregone conclusion that he's going to be a great quarterback. You've got to develop him into that. You've got him set up in a pretty nice situation where the chances of him having success are are pretty high because of the weapons you have around him but you've got to you've got to do it you know the the flaws in his game you've got to try to mitigate some of that stuff and continue to just grow him and develop him as a as a quarterback and you know Dallas Turner too like Dallas to, he's got to get in the lab. He's got to go to work. He's got to become, you know, uh, a great pass rushing, uh, defensive force to really

kind of justify, like, you know, they gave up a lot to, to move up and take him at 17 too. When you factor in what they gave up to get 23 and then what they then gave up to to go up six more spots so he's got you know there's some pressure on him too to really kind of develop into into something special as well so i'm i'm excited but you know it's it's you may have had a really good draft but now you've got to you've got to make good on all of that now going forward in order for this team to contend. And we're all going to be watching to see how it plays out.

The first test for Kweisi Dalfomensa in this regime was to get to this point. That we understood that the Wilfs wanted to remain competitive. And they had to work within those bounds. And they did. And they got to this place where they got a top 10 quarterback. And they have a roster with a healthy salary cap situation after this year and players who will be here over multiple seasons jonathan grenard andrew van ginkle blake cashman these are guys who can be here for a while foundational pieces they re-sign metellus brilliantly before last year and then he

has this big breakout year they They end up saving money that way. So they, uh, you know, now we're going to have an expensive receiver and left tackle. That's okay. Those are expensive positions. Addison was a great draft pick. Hawkinson can be here for many years as a tight end into his thirties. You're in a good position, a very good position. Now you have to make it happen. So part one gets probably a B plus to get to this point that, you know, there were mistakes along the way. It wasn't perfect, but you accomplished what you were supposed to.

Now is where you truly get judged because you know who cares about a competitive rebuild? Minnesota Vikings fans and the media and no one else, like no one else because everybody else is looking at the 49ers go to the Super Bowl. They're looking at the Eagles go to the Super Bowl. They don't care about you until you're truly winning. They don't pat you on the back and call you the champion of the off season until you're truly winning. And so that's where you want to be locally. Everyone who paid close attention, saw how this played out, saw that they put themselves in the best position right now. But your goal is to make everyone care, everyone watching championship weekend care. And until you're there, then it is not an actual true success. And I think they understand that. So Manny, this was fun. It turned out to be great.

Your head froze only twice, which your internet coming back on, we'll give it a little bit of off-season excuses, I think for some rust for your internet but no honestly super fun conversation really glad that we could get together as always and we've got links games to go to buddy it is maybe you know potentially the most exciting year in uh in w history so that should be really fun i know you and i'll be out there and uh we'll check in throughout the off season when stuff happens as well so thanks for your time man i am uh looking forward to attending a few links games with you this summer i'm i'm pumped i'm very very excited and uh always a pleasure being with you on this platform as well diamond miller season baby all right thanks everybody uh for watching as always

and lots more to come i can't i can't even reveal how much more there is to come for this week and going forward. So we'll catch you all later. And thanks everybody for all the fun comps and trolling me with hilarious comps and everything else. Really appreciate it. And Taylor, who's telling me to take a vacation.

There is no vacation from football. It is always football here. So we'll catch you guys later. Football.