Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Vikings historian breaks down Jim Marshall's legacy and JJ McCarthy's place in Vikings QB history

Episode Date: June 5, 2025

Matthew Coller is joined by Vikings historian and author of Kings of the North Chad Israelson to discuss the late Jim Marshall and his legacy. Also, they discuss current Vikings QB JJ McCarthy and the history of Vikings quarterbacks.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Coller here and joining me on the show is Chad Israelson who has written a book, Kings of the North, about Minnesota Vikings history, a tremendous book. And so we bring on Chad to talk Vikings history with the passing of the great Jim Marshall. And also Chad has another book coming out very soon on quarterbacks, which seems like we could probably connect to what's going on today. So welcome back to the show, Chad. Great to have you. I really don't want to only have you on the show when someone awesome passes away for the Vikings, but you give such incredible perspective. I want you to give me your reaction

to the passing of Jim Marshall. And let's just start the conversation with, to you as a Vikings historian, what he means in Vikings history. Sure. Well, first, thank you very much, Matthew, for having me back. Really appreciate that. Yeah, obviously I've been thinking about Jim Marshall,

you know, for the past 24 hours or so, and I really thought that, you know, if you were to distill everything about the Minnesota Vikings down into one player, you know, that basic element would be Jim Marshall. You know, if the aliens came from outer space and, you know, they wanted to know about the Vikings, you would start with Jim Marshall. That would be the basic building block. He had the good fortune of timing. He came to the Vikings in 1961 and it's really quite amazing, but I was thinking about it too, know it was 1980 before the franchise played a game that didn't include Jim Marshall. That's 270 consecutive starts regular season 19

more in the playoffs. And watching the tributes I saw the the raw footage from Chuck Foreman's Fox 9 interview yesterday. It's about 15 minutes long. Just all the things that he had to say. I mean, it was basically the same thing that I'm saying right now about Marshall. Obviously, he knew him personally. But you look at the old things that Buck Grant had said. I just watched something that Frank Tarkington put up today. And your article in Purple Insider, I mean, that hit the nail on the head too. And that was perfect.

I mean, Jim Marshall, his toughness, his leadership, Captain Jim, the only player in Vikings history to ever wear number 70. They didn't officially retire it until like 99, but no one else wore it in that time. So yeah, Jim Marshall is the Minnesota Vikings. And one thing that kept coming up over and over again that I noticed in watching the

tributes too, and Fran Target had said this and I took from some old NFL films interviews with Bud Grant, is the word special when it came to Jim Marshall. Now I have no idea how a man that played in that era could play every single game. I mean, we think about how tough it is now and these guys have cryo chambers and they have all the sports science through the roof. That was not something Jim Marshall had. Oh yeah, by the way, if you just wanted to punch someone after the play, you probably wouldn't even get thrown out of the game for doing it.

I mean the violence of the game and yet he was able to be on the field. But what really stood out to me is the way that Bud Grant talked about him. There was one quote that really popped to me. He said, I call him Mr. Marshall. I mean the the reverence that he had that Bud Grant had and we're talking about Bud is one of the greatest

coaches in NFL history. And this was really his sergeant, like this was his right hand man. And I think that when we have those conversations about the Hall of Fame, which we'll get into, of course, when it comes to Jim Marshall, sure sacks that pro football reference has now tracked show that he had a lot of impact on those great defenses and everything else But it is really truly Unquantifiable what he meant to bud grant in terms of being in command of that football team

Yeah, I mean that's absolutely it First and foremost, you know if bud grant says that I believe it I believe it. So I just start right there. But yeah, absolutely. When you were talking about the conditions and keeping in mind there were no bye weeks when Marshall played. By December, Met Stadium was like playing in a parking lot darn near, or slop, depending on how warm it got that day but um yeah it you had none of the uh the niceties that they have today in order to play

and as you mentioned the violence of the game it has recently watched uh opening uh nfl today you know and half of the plays on there would be illegal now, you know, horse collar tackles and, you know, that sort of thing. So yeah, I mean, Marshall played in a tough, tough time. He was, you know, as I mentioned before, you know, Captain Jim, you know, and Bud Grant said the smartest thing I ever did was make him captain when I came in 1967. And, you know, testament to Bud Grant to be able to recognize that so quickly, you know, and, you know, they, like Chuck Foreman was talking about yesterday, if Bud, or I'm sorry, if Jim Marshall said,

you know, we're going to go, we're going to go. You know, Bud told him to take a lap, he took it and everyone else followed Jim Marshall. So, yeah, I mean, you know, when one of your best players is able to not only perform on the field to that level, stay on the field with that consistency, but also exude that type of leadership. I mean, you've got a good squad and obviously they had some excellent, excellent teams in his era well and it's hard it's almost hard to define how good they were by today's terms because I

Don't know that people could imagine a football team allowing less than ten points a game For an entire season on defense and it's always been said to me in Vikings history And there's a lot of that where if only this one other thing or if whatever if only Fran Tarkington had not been a New York giant when the Vikings in I think it was 71 were allowing 9.9 points per game and they did not have the quarterback play to match up in the playoffs but in the regular season the most dominating defense probably of all time and had they won the Super Bowl they would have been the one that everyone references instead of the 85 Bears probably.

Well, it's not the 71 Vikings in that defensive line. And I think with Marshall, that he does get lost a little bit in Carl Ehler and Alan Page. To me, it speaks to his greatness that everyone looked to Jim Marshall when those other guys were on the team along with Paul Krause. I mean, you're talking about some of the greatest players of all time.

And I was looking up the all pros and the Pro Bowls, because this has always been a bit of a knock against Jim Marshall, that he didn't get those things. And there's a year where once pro football reference went back and tracked all the sacks where Jim Marshall has more sacks than Carl Eller. But Carl Eller is first team, all pro and pro bowl and all those things. And that's no knock on Ehler, but it's just that I don't think that there was a good way to evaluate the players outside of, well, this guy has

the reputation. And when two guys already had the reputation as being their great players and not as much Marshall, they got rewarded with things like that when they weren't going to give all the All Pros to all Minnesota Vikings defensive linemen and I feel like you just kind of got left out of that party with some of the awards unfairly. Yeah, I think you're exactly right. Again, to reference your article, I was thinking something similar to that. I figured we'd be talking about, you know, Marshall and Hall of Fame at some point today. So, no, I completely buy that line of thinking. You know, I remember reading a newspaper article by Barrero, I think, in the late 80s.

And he was just talking about the locker room and they were, you know, having, because the players vote, you know, having, because the players vote, you know, on the Pro Bowl as well. And one of the guys in the locker room, he didn't say who it was, but he just shouted out, you know, oh, what kind of season is, I'll just say, Jackie Slater having, you know, what he didn't know any more than, you know, anybody else, like, just, well, that's a name and we'll put him in. So, yeah, and I think it ultimately boils down to your point of the fact that, yeah, three Minnesota Vikings, I mean, you know, Page and Eller were incredibly dominant players, and that does not take away from Jim Marshall's greatness.

You know, like that's, it's not an either or type of thing or a zero sum game. You know, all three of these men were great, great football players. And so for a long, long time, I've been peeved by the fact that Jim Marshall is not in the Hall of Fame, whether it's the opponent fumble recovery record, the consecutive game record. He, to me, is probably the greatest player in that, you know,

not in the hall of fame right now. Uh, and I don't have any acts to grind with, you know, some of the recent guys from like the seventies when I grew up. I mean, uh, not that I was breaking down film then or anything. And I know Randy Gradishar was a great linebacker. I know Elvin Bethea was a great defensive end for the Houston Oilers. Were they better than Jim Marshall? Yeah, I have a hard time believing that. You know, were they on par with him? Sure, I'd accept that argument. But you know, I mean, so yeah,

that's just it. I mean, Jim Marshall, in his absolute talent, to me, is one of the underappreci appreciated stories in the NFL. Well, and now that we have these numbers, to me, as soon as those stats came out from pro football reference, which I consider to be credible with all the work that they put in to finding those numbers, the top 11 players of all time in SACS are all in the Hall of Fame, and some of the ones just behind them are on their way. And Marshall is 15th, which I know took place over many years. But even when I looked at his peak performance for sack seasons,

he was in the top five in the NFL from 62 to 69, which were his best seasons as a defender in terms of sack production. And the other players ahead of him, one guy ahead and one guy behind are both in the hall of fame. And that's what I think was probably hard for voters for a very long time was what do we go back and really look at statistically when we don't have sacks? But now that we do, I think it shines a light on just how impactful Marshall was. Plus, not to mention how much game planning goes into it for other teams and how were they going to face off against him,

often facing the best tackles on the team, things like that. And I just think when you have these dynastic type of teams that I know without a Superbowl, we can't call them a dynasty, but the defense kind of was. Somebody always gets left out of the party. I mean, one, because I grew up in Buffalo was their center, Kent Hall, who I considered to be one of the best players of all time, but they put in the quarterback, the running back, the wide receiver.

There's probably not another guy who's going to go in and I think that's what happened to Marshall. But you know, you said that you think he's probably the best player, not in the Hall of Fame. I 100% agree with you. And I was thinking about this just in my article about how we can't let that define his legacy, that he's just not in the Hall of Fame. Because if you're here and if you know, and if you follow this franchise from its beginning,

or you followed its history, because you like old NFL films or whatever else. I think that it doesn't, it shouldn't matter that much to you because the people that saw Jim Marshall play and the people that played with him and the people that coached him and the people that rooted for him know how great he was. And some hall of fame voter in Indianapolis or Cincinnati or Jacksonville, there's nothing you can do to control that, I think. I know that it's an injustice because he belongs in, but I also think that it's not a tarnishing of his legacy

that other people decided that he wasn't as valuable as everyone here knows he was. Right, yeah. I mean, ultimately, anybody that follows the Vikings, you know, knows about Jim Marshall. You know, to me, the greatest testament is what the guys who played with him said about him. And so, you know, again, as a Viking fan and as a person that, you know, is into Vikings history, you know, there's just no question to me that he's on that Mount Rushmore of Minnesota Vikings and he's kind of the, you know, as I said earlier,

the starting point. So, yeah, I 100% agree that that is not, should not be his legacy. And the sad thing is, is it often happens, is then they elect people after they've passed away. Um, and you know, I think Viking fans can certainly, uh, have a little bit of a grudge here, you know, thinking how long it took Tinglehoff to get in, how long it took Krauss, uh, the all time interception leader, Frank Targanton didn't make it in

until his third go around, you know, and he held every major passing record when he retired. So yeah, I think, you know, overall, the Vikings have been underappreciated by the national media, you know, sports writers because of that lack of a Super Bowl, which really is, you know, if you've been to four, you were really good.

So. Well, and I don't want to make Jim Marshal's passing about me ranting about how he should be in the Hall of Fame. I think that's what I'm kind of getting at is we here can celebrate Jim Marshall's legacy and the Minnesota Vikings are not, I think Bud said this or maybe Fran Tarkenton, like they're just not who they are without Jim Marshall. And when Fran Targeton, one of the great quarterbacks in history says the heart and soul of this football team was

Jim Marshall, to me that carries a lot more weight than people who didn't cover him who are looking back at Pro Bowls and things like that. So I don't want to make it a rant every time, but it's almost hard not to because it is so much part of his legacy that he has been underappreciated and not fully celebrated by the Pro Football Hall of Fame. The other thing that, again, I try not to turn into some sort of grudge is about the play, the wrong way run. And it is one of the strangest, most shocking bloopers to ever watch. All of us, I'm sure when you saw it for the first time, I think I saw it watching NFL films as a kid. And I asked my dad about it.

Like, how did he run the wrong way? And it's a funny blooper. It's no different than any other strange things. Somebody tries to dunk a ball and it bounces, you know, a hundred feet in the air or Jose can say, go having a ball bounce off his head for a home run. But what I don't understand about this one is how it seemed to be made into more than what it was, which was just a really bad, weird mistake that I'm sure if you've ever strapped a football helmet on and you've run around out there being disoriented on a football field, it's not that hard. It's just a crazy mistake that happened.

They won the football game. They won it on a play that Jim Marshall made. And that's how that's how it should have been left. And yet every single feature about Jim Marshall has to be like, oh, yeah, this was the guy that ran the wrong way. And I think that it became a little bit of who he was outside of here. Oh yeah, that's the guy who ran the wrong way, as opposed to, hey, that's just a really weird thing that happened one time in a football game. Yeah. Well, I mean, there's a couple of things about it. One,

it is unique, you know, if five or six other guys would have done it over the years, then, you know, maybe it wouldn't, we wouldn't hear about it so much. But you know, when I was working out in the yard today and thinking about this, kind of occurred to me that, you know, so that takes place in 1964 and so, you know, like that's Eller's rookie year, Page isn't there yet, so I don't know all, you know, who was actually in the game at that moment. But keep in mind, that was a pass play. So Jim Marshall is 12, 15 yards downfield to pick up the fumble as a defensive end.

You know, I don't know where the other three guys were on the defensive line because the camera, you know, we didn't have a thousand cameras for each game back then, but I know where they weren't. And that was at the ball. So, you know, the fact that we remember Jim Marshall for this, I mean, maybe we should remember him for hustling his butt off and getting to that point to be able to pick that fumble up, you know? So, I mean, to me, that's the essence of who he was. You know, a guy that busted his butt every practice, every game, every, you know, and that's what, again, the tributes have been saying. He didn't miss a practice.

He was there all the time. I mean, he got out of the hospital and came and played a game. So, yeah, yeah, I certainly recognize why people might be amused by that play and that sort of thing. But I think that there's more to the story than just the fact that he ran the wrong way with the ball. And as you also pointed out, they won and they won because of what he did in that game. Another thing I was thinking about him today too was when Brett Favre broke his record, which no great joy to me as a Vikings fan, and I know Brett Favre was on the Vikings at that time, but, you know, I was kind of hoping that at some point for the Packers along the way, you know, Favre wouldn't be the guy to do it,

but kudos to him. I mean, that's a hack of a thing to do, but, came and congratulated Favre at practice. He wasn't able to make the actual game, but he came the following week then as well. And I just think about Favre's interaction with say Mark Gastineau in a record that we've all seen. And that says something about Jim Marshall. Jim Marshall was happy for Brett Favre to break that record. So as a human being, as a football player, this is a great guy. And again, everyone is saying that.

I mean, if it weren't so universal and if it wasn't before he passed and after he passed, I might question it a little bit, but this has been all I've ever heard about Jim Marshall, was how great he was. Yeah, certainly. And he also was active in the community as well with his foundation, which in 2020,

the Vikings Social Justice Committee, which is formed by current players, gave $20,000 to his foundation. So I think that also shows you that he stayed here, cared about the community, was a part of it, wanted to be a part of it, which, you know, in Minnesota matters to us a lot when guys stick around. Alan Page is the same thing. I'm sure you could still see him jogging around the lake somewhere in Minnesota.

So Marshall being the same kind of way was meaningful, but we only talk about that one play. I'm curious to hear from you about other teams' moments that Jim Marshall was a part of, because I think that a lot of excellence gets left in the dust. And I showed my favorite play, and most of my knowledge of what happened in the 70s

is just my love for NFL films. And I've seen there's a play where Marshall laterals to Alan Page runs for a touchdown against the Lions in the snow, in the mud. So the perfect definition of the teamwork of that defensive line. I love that play and I love the NFL films music behind it. I'm just curious about from you,

when you think about Jim Marshall and plays that are not the one blooper, what come to mind? Well, you know, first I just want to say the one picture that comes to mind, I saw it on the back page of the Minneapolis Star Tribune, and I'm pretty sure it is from that game against Detroit, 1969 Thanksgiving Day, but it's that profile of Marshall, all muddy, in the snow. Again, like to me, that's it. If there's a picture that is worth a thousand words, that's it for Marshall. Actually, one of the things I remember the most

as a young person was the it was actually that And you see a lot of it on NFL films or you know over the past day or so His last game at Met Stadium. I know you referenced the thanks Jim but he actually Came out the Vikings had the ball they're beating the Bills 10-3 And he came out and he played offensive line for the kneel down. And just the crowd reaction,

I remember watching that as a kid over at my friend's house and his dad was, oh, look at that, look what they're doing. I mean, it was just a really exciting kind of thing and understanding like, wow, as a 10 year old, whatever, this defensive ends playing offensive line for this, this must be really special, you know. So that's one thing. You know, the play that you mentioned in Detroit, of course, I wasn't alive for that one either, but I've seen it many times. And to me, it also just highlights what tremendous athletes the Purple People eaters were.

That's a great no-look pass that Marshall whips to Paige. There's a great clip of him just making one of those, and it's against the Packers. I'm trying to remember if a Scar, if a scar was still quarterbacking or if it was just right after Bart Starr. But where he just leaps on the quarterback's back, engulfing the entirety of the Packers quarterback. That one always stands out in my mind. And it's also just amazing to me that,

by the end of the season, they said that guys like Page and Marshall were down in like the 220s for weight. You know, which, you know, you can't even fathom that today. But yeah, you know, just the, I think counting on him day in and day out, like by the time I was watching the Vikings, of course he was getting to the end of his career. He didn't block the kicks in the same way that Eller and Page did, a little bit smaller stature than say Eller, for example.

But it was just kind of the, knowing that he was the Iron Man and knowing that he was there every game and just really thinking that he was the Iron Man and knowing that he was there every game. And, you know, just really thinking that he was indestructible. But yeah, yeah, I mean, just again, phenomenal talent. Well, and that speaks to another thing about the Hall of Fame. And again, I don't mean to keep going back to it, but if availability is the best ability, this is the most available player in the history of the NFL.

And playing that position in that era is just an unbelievable feat that you can guarantee on the defensive side of the ball. No player is ever going to, not a defensive lineman, is ever going to match this ever again from Jim Marshall. Just one more thing, and then I wanna get into the quarterbacks a little bit with you you Chad. Marshall was a fascinating dude. I mean in the NFL films feature he's quoting Teddy Roosevelt, he's jumping out of a

plane, he is somewhere snowy with a bunch of husky dogs doing what is that sledding whatever dog sledding. I mean, he is such an interesting guy. And I think that very much about Alan Page, of course, Justice Page, and how intellectual that defensive line was to go along with their physical talent. But he was also a bit of a daredevil. I've heard that his drives back from Mankato were famous, that he had set the world record for the fastest anyone got from Mankato back to Minneapolis. I think his off-field stuff is almost as incredible as his on-field stuff. He had a bunch of run-ins with near-death.

I mean, just a super interesting guy. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, just fascinating to me. I mean, everything that you said, I would echo that. I remember for a long time reading about those races that they would have back from Mankato, and he was the one that fired the gun to start it. Royce's article today, don't ask what kind of gun it was. So probably not the same kind of thing you would see today, you know, kind of like, don't ask what kind of gun it was. Probably not the same kind of thing you would see today, you know, it was a little wilder time.

My uncle, my family on my mom's side is from that general area and he used to talk about going to the Albatross and seeing the guys there during training camp, you know, and full pitchers of beer, for example. But, you know, yeah, he's a brilliant guy. That came up in Chuck Foreman's interview. I've seen it in other interviews. You know, we know about the hang gliding accident. You were talking about the dog sledding.

I mean, to really have, to be that multifaceted is really an impressive thing. And when you were asking me in the previous question, too, there's something popped in my head, but. You know, when talking about specific plays and that kind of thing, this is more overall about Marshall, but you know, he was a little bit undersized. As a defensive end, obviously we talk about that. So his game is going to be quickness. He played until he was 41 years old, relying on that quickness.

So just in terms, again, of his athletic ability, I mean, to me, that's phenomenal. Most speed rushers are burned out by mid-30s. And they get pushed around then because they don't have the size. But Marshall was contributing into his forties playing that type of game. So off the field, on the field. What a guy. Well, and I always think about him just in my mind, other than that play on Thanksgiving

in the snow. I just think of him knifing into the backfield, like cutting inside the tackle and between the tackle and guard, and just he's there. And the handoff is getting to the running backs hands as Jim Marshall is arriving to take him down. And I can only wonder how many tackles for loss Jim Marshall had that would have even bolstered

the statistical case. But nonetheless, one of the five or six guys that you would start the conversation with about the Minnesota Vikings and their history, his connection with Bud Grant, I do not think that they go to those Super Bowls without him or that their legacy is the same without Jim Marshall. So an incredible life lived by him.

You are working on a new project, which should be quite a journey for you through Vikings quarterback history. And you know, what's so fascinating about the quarterback history, Chad, is that we've arrived at a point where the motif of the Vikings finding random quarterbacks, making them great, even up until last year with Sam Darnold, it actually has a chance to end.

So I wonder just in your mind, like how, as you've been researching this project and writing about Vikings quarterbacks through history, like what are you thinking now, as we're almost, it feels like on the edge of something with J.J. McCarthy that this franchise has flirted with a few times, Dante Culpepper, Teddy Bridgewater, Tommy Kramer, all guys that they drafted and never quite got there

to the decade long franchise quarterback as they now have the highest pick in history at the quarterback position in JJ McCarthy? Well, I'm both optimistic, cautiously, and very excited, very full of hope. Yeah, I mean, I am looking at JJ McCarthy and, you know, penciling him in as a 15-year starter. You know, I mean, like this, this should be it.

I just, you've been watching him. So obviously you've seen more than I have so far. But he seems to have all the tools. He seems to have the mindset. He's obviously got the coaching. So like he's got the talent around him. An offensive line has been rebuilt. Like the arrow was pointing the right way.

More so than, you know, than I've seen it in a long, long time. I mean, you know, maybe those late 80s era Vikings, but still not at quarterback. You know, like that was going to be more of a game manager like Wade Wilson and a great defense around him. McCarthy is going to have the ability to make plays. So he's a step certainly above that. So yeah, you talk about the one year wonders. We've had the Stars, Brad Farr for a year,

Randall Cunningham, they played for more than one year but they only had one really great year. Then the Kenums that come out of nowhere. And okay, Sam Bradford, oh, he had a pretty decent year and it could have been something. I mean, that's basically the next sentence. Well, that could have been something. And so now I think, that's basically the next sentence. Well, that could have been something. And so, you know, now I think, yeah,

I really think the Vikings have something. And I, you know, again, as a Viking fan, I know anyone that's watching this in the back of their minds, just like mine, it's like, okay, what's going to go wrong? You know, we were talking about that sort of mentality a little bit, you know, prior to going on air here, but you can't help but have that as a Viking fan. We were talking about that sort of mentality a little bit, uh, you know, prior to going on air here, but, um,

you can't help but have that as a Viking fan, but I don't believe in curses. I don't believe in voodoo. Uh, I think J, JJ McCarthy is the real deal and, uh, we are going to have, have a very enjoyable decade and a half as Viking fans. And that is your cautious optimism version, which is a decade and a half of Viking fans. And that is your cautious optimism version, which is a decade and a half of him as a starter. Well, we'll get to a mini camp next week. So we'll take it from there.

But I want to know who your favorite quarterback to research was, not the best necessarily in Vikings history, but who you enjoyed as you were going through, learning more about their story, getting the details of them as a quarterback. I think I have an answer of my own, but I'm very curious about yours. Yeah, well, so, you know, that one's a great question. It's kind of tough because, you know, there's adult me and young me, right, as I'm writing this. So, you know, me, right, as I'm writing this. So, you know, I, the way I look at Kramer or even Steve Dills for that matter is different than, you know, how I'm looking at Dante

Culpepper, you know, or any of the guys in my adult life. One of my favorites, both as I watched him and then as I researched him a little bit, but I really like Brad Johnson in part because I always had in my head, oh, he was a really good crunch time quarterback. And then when I looked up, yeah, in fact he was, you know, like in 97, I think he threw the most fourth quarter touchdowns in the NFL. He had the best passer rating in the fourth quarter that year as well.

And it was like, okay, yeah. You know, I did remember that correctly. You know, obviously, you know, he goes on and wins a Super Bowl of Tampa Bay. But I liked his demeanor. There's a part of me that thinks that maybe if he would have come into that 1998 NFC championship game, the Vikings might have gone to the Super Bowl. I have it on videotape. I rewatch it every now and then just for a little clues.

And you can just sense the tension there. And I think he might have been able to cut through that. But so, yeah, Johnson definitely to me is one of the most underrated quarterbacks and a guy that I just, you know, kind of wanted to check the reality against what my impression was of him. So yeah, how about you? What?

Well, I was going to say Brad Johnson because he was what? He was like a ninth round pick or something, which doesn't even exist anymore. And he had a couple of years where he kind of developed. And then he became, the funny thing about Brad Johnson, and if you follow him on social media, he does like trick shots with basketball.

He was a basketball player at Florida State. That was what he really was. And then came into football a little bit later and becomes a draft pick and develops and develops over a couple of years, which we just don't really see this type of thing in the NFL anymore. And he was not mobile in the way that he was fast, but he thought he was, I think he like had a basketball players.

I'm a playmaker point guard mindset. And the number of times where there's pressure and Brad Johnson is somehow moving his giant body, like hoofing around people or catching his own pass and running it for a touchdown. He would do these subtle athletic things. And I felt like he was the ultimate game manager in a positive way too. Like he was a playmaker, but also didn't have a lot of mistakes, kept the train on the track, was a really good leader,

locked into the offense. And of course he ends up winning with Tampa Bay in part because of that, because he really just managed the game super well. Washington, when he went there one, and then I think they didn't win 10 games for who knows how many more years after Brad Johnson was there. I always enjoyed him. I've also interviewed him a couple of times and he's a great dude. Uh, the other one to me, while while call pepper was peak of me starting to learn really about football and fully understand it. And I know that there will

be people when you're like the fans of a team can be so ultra critical because they want a championship and it hasn't happened. But from a person who was not here watching call pepper, like what a treat if Dick Stockton and Matt Millen were calling a game with callpepper throwing it to the roof and having it drop in out of the sky into Randy Moss's hands. That was some of the most fun stuff that 04 season is one of the great seasons of all time.

And it's not even one of Randy Moss's best seasons, which makes that even crazier. And the other one to me is Wade Wilson because Wade Wilson did not care. He was going to come in and he was going to fire that ball down the field, Anthony Carter, and whatever happened after that happened. He was not going to play safe. He wasn't going to check down.

He was just going to come in and let it rip. And the guy averaged like eight and a half yards and attempt when he was a Viking quarterback, it was, it's just, I think a fun approach to playing the position at that time and that that game against San Francisco, uh, for Wade Wilson will always go down in history is one of the great, uh, playoff upsets beating that team and then the way that he played in that game. So there's a, there's a lot. And then, but the one, the number one to me though, number one is Jeff George, because that run in 1999 is so freaking entertaining. Jeff George is firing it left and right. The ball is traveling so fast.

The cameras cannot keep up with it. Jeff George is just balling out. It looked like he didn't, I mean, sometimes it looked like he didn't even know the play and he just dropped back and was like, where's Randy? I'm just just gonna throw it to him. He was just the ultimate gun slinger And I know his reputation the rest of his career wasn't great But seeing that arm talent that attitude to playing quarterback That's what you go in the backyard with your buddies and just throw it up to your friends. Like that's how Jeff George played quarterback He's probably the one that gets referenced on this show more than any other because of how much I enjoy. And when I go, cause I do this all the time,

I go watch old games on YouTube. I type in 99 Vikings, probably more than any other season on YouTube to go back and watch. Yeah, I certainly remember it well too. I mean, that was, that was pretty incredible. Those first couple of games after he replaced Cunningham, you know, thinking, oh wow, they might do it now. They might do it now. So, yeah, no, I agree. He was a blast to watch. Just when you were talking about Wilson, you know, one of the things when I was

researching this book, just really finding some bizarre stat lines. But there was a game in 87 against the Raiders. Wilson replaced Kramer at halftime. He threw two passes the entire second half, both for touchdowns. And the Vikings won like 30 to 21. You know, it wasn't even a low scoring game. You know, you just that would never happen now, you know, unless it was a driving rainstorm or snowstorm or something, but this was at the Metrodome. So you know, that was one of the fun parts to is

just going back and some of the things that you know, maybe I saw at the time, but just didn't register. But yeah, I was a big Wade Wilson fan to you mentioned Culpepper, that was a, you know, a phenomenal run when he was at his best. And I really thought at one time in my life, I really thought that he would go down in history as the greatest Vikings quarterback because after that 04 season, the numbers that he put up, it just seemed like sky's the limit. So yeah, I know. I get very optimistic, but I have to. You know, ever

since I was a little kid, I've been waiting. You know, I was at the tail end of those four Super Bowls. So every new era, I have to be convinced that, yep, this is going to be it. So that's the stance I'm taking now. Well, it comes along with the territory. You wouldn't be here if you gave up easy. Chad Israelson, historian, also the author of Kings of the North, and keep an eye out for your book

on Vikings quarterback history, which is going to come out later in the fall, in September, toward the beginning of the season. So I'm excited about that. Hopefully I can grab myself a copy and make sure you check out Kings of the North, a really, really fun book to go through. So Chad, great perspective on Jim Marshall

and the quarterbacks. I'm really glad we could connect. Thanks again for coming on the show, man. Thank you very much for having me.