Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Vikings meet with Penix Jr. and FOX Sports' Carmen Vitali talks NFC North

Episode Date: April 2, 2024

Matthew Coller talks about the Vikings visiting with Michael Penix Jr. and then chats with FOX Sports' NFC North reporter Carmen Vitali about which team won the NFC North offseason so far and what the Vikings will do in the draft Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

hey everybody welcome to another episode of purple insider matthew collar here and before we get to my interview with Carmen Vitale of Fox Sports, just a quick little update for your mind. The Minnesota Vikings, according to reporter Jordan Schultz, had a meeting with Michael Penix Jr. and did a workout with him out in Seattle. So this is not shocking news that the Minnesota Vikings would be meeting with a potential first round quarterback, right? But at least it's an update to let you know that they are doing the due diligence on, in my mind, one of the most interesting prospects in the entire NFL draft. Because if Michael Penix Jr. had no injuries whatsoever and he used the four or five something speed that he has to run around a little more, make a few more plays off schedule, scramble, escape, run some QB runs.

We would probably be talking about him at the very top of this draft as in a top 10 prospect. And yeah, you'd have to take a year or two off of his age as well, because that's a factor. So he has a few things that are going against him. But when we look at the production from Michael Penix Jr. over the last two years, led all of NCAA in passing over the last two seasons, took a team that has never been to the national championship since a very long time ago into the national championship, beat Texas in an incredible performance in the final four and has led that team really successfully as the centerpiece of their entire offense, where he was operating everything. They did not lean heavily on the run game.

He was throwing downfield. He led the entire college football in big time throws. Like if he had done these things without those couple of negatives against him that don't really have a lot to do with him running an offense and throwing the football. And when we're talking about knee surgeries and we're talking about scrambling and so forth we would be looking at him i think through a quite the different lens and i wonder if what the vikings want to find out is if they can't trade up to the top or if the only price tags are so outrageously high that they do not want to pay them. Would they be okay with drafting Michael Penix Jr. at 11 or with even trying to wait until number 23? One thing I do have a feeling about

is despite my most recent draft simulation that you can see over at purpleinsider.com, where I was able to get Byron Murphy the second and Michael Penix Jr. by sitting at 11 and 23 is I think that the more time teams spend with Penix, the more excited they're going to be about him. And this is just from trying to put two and two together with the things that he's been through, the adversities battled through and with the way that he operated that offense. And I remember hearing a story about how every time he would go over to the sideline, he's breaking down everything in detail that he saw. And if he's good at communicating like that, we know that that's going to be a factor for Kevin O'Connell. And I just, with a guy that has that type of vibe to him, that competitiveness,

that leadership, I wonder how well that will gel with Kevin O'Connell. I would think that it would quite a bit. So if the Vikings do end up getting left out of the party or the prices are too high and they end up drafting Michael Penix at 11, my guess is that you would hear a lot of people saying oh that's too high they spent too much on him they should have waited till 23. he was probably going to drop and then they'll get b minuses for draft grades and so forth because the consensus has pennix being lower than number 11 but i would not look at it that way. Similarly to how I wouldn't worry about what draft charts say if they give up a lot to go up and get Drake May or if they give up too much to get JJ McCarthy, because the most important thing is Kevin O'Connell being sold on this particular quarterback.

Penix has been a guy through this entire time, from going back to college that I watched really closely, that usually every year in college football, I am a casual, and then I will catch up during draft season by having Chris Trapasso on the show and going back and watching old games myself. But in this instance, I watched a lot of Michael Penix throughout this entire draft season, or I'm sorry, throughout the entire actual college season,

because I was so intrigued by how he had come back from those injuries. He was really good at Indiana and how he was leading this team that was suddenly becoming very special. And of course, because of the realistic possibility that the Vikings could be looking to draft a quarterback. And the more that I watched him, even when he had bad times, Oregon State is one of those games. And then Michigan in the national championship, he never got down on teammates he never stopped battling you never saw him give up and i think caleb williams is a more impressive prospect than pennix by quite a bit but you did see some of those things maybe not necessarily teammates with caleb williams but you did see the sulking on the bench and so forth where you never saw that from Michael Penix. And that character, that sort of how this

guy is built is something that I think might stand out to the Vikings just as much as his arm talent as well. But I do also look at the 40 time and say, we can't really say just because he runs fast that suddenly he's a top 10 prospect or he's better as a prospect than McCarthy or May or anything like that. I don't want to go crazy. It's just that throughout this entire time, I've always felt like Michael Penix would be a good fit for the Minnesota Vikings. So I wish that I could be at that workout and get Kevin O'Connell's immediate thoughts right after, because I really want to know, are you seeing the things I'm seeing

or are you seeing something else or whatever it might be? And we can go through a lot of the college numbers and everything else and his are great, where he threw the football, his throwing motion. And what it really comes down to is, is O'Connell sold on him as a guy and somebody that he can work with every day and his mind for the game and his processing and his toughness and all those things that have been brought up

from Kevin O'Connell because they're going to develop the other parts of it. And that's another element to how much of those things that you don't like about Penix's game. Can you develop? It's not always sharp on some underneath stuff. If you're talking about intermediate, he throws a lot of fastballs and maybe doesn't always have the best, perfect, pristine accuracy, which is why I have kind of looked at him as Jared Goff-ish in the way that he's going to have to play from the pocket, throws lots of hard fastballs, but maybe doesn't always have flawless accuracy. I certainly don't think that's the case from someone like Jared Goff. So is he going to see too much of Jared Goff?

Is he going to see a Matt Stafford-like gunslinger? I'd really love to know what Kevin O'Connell and Josh McCown as well, if he was out there. I don't know. But Kevin O'Connell specifically would think about this as the Vikings are meeting with michael pennock so figured we dropped that little bit of nugget of news there before we get to my interview with carmen vitale we talk a lot about the status of the nfc north and what is to come here going forward so on to that here's carmen vitale fox

sports hey everybody welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here and joining me on the show for the first time, she covers everyone in the NFC North for Fox Sports. Carmen Vitaly, who is very exhausted from this off season. You've got the Bears draft in number one overall. The Vikings are going to trade up at some point for a quarterback. Oh oh yeah the Lions were in the NFC championship and the Packers found their next franchise quarterback anything else going on for you Carmen what's up oh god everything and and nothing all at once it's really interesting though because obviously the Bears control the draft board because they picked number one overall

but the Vikings are probably the most interesting team, I think, in the first round because we don't know how they're going to do what they want to do. So this offseason has kept me busy. Yeah, I bet. And so that's what we're going to talk about, obviously, is the NFC North. And here's what I want to know from you. I want your opinion because I have been head entirely buried in all draft scenarios for the Minnesota Vikings. It's been really fun. But aside from Caleb Williams and Justin Fields being traded, I haven't kept up as closely with

the other teams. So I'm going to rely on you. Here's what I, here's what I want from you. I want you to tell me at this juncture, this is obviously before the Vikings have drafted a quarterback or Caleb Williams is not a bear bear yet who's winning the offseason in the nfc north like if you just had to snap reaction hot take you're on tv i see you out there so this is what you have to do on tv give hot takes so who which team in the nfc north is winning the offseason so far i guess it would have to be the chicago Bears because they've really put a lot of pieces in place to like, this is the final part of their rebuild, right? Ryan Poles has spent the last couple of years, couple of off seasons, building this roster so that when they had this opportunity to take a young quarterback, they were going to be able to take advantage of it. And this is a really good scenario for a young quarterback to come into, whether it be Caleb Williams or somebody else. This is not a number one overall

pick type of roster that somebody is going to be coming into. You've got two veteran wide receivers now. You've got a stable of running backs. The Bears have invested quite a bit in the offensive line, trying to figure out who the best five is going to be up front. And that defense took some really good steps at the end of the year. Top five defense, in fact, in the back half of the season, which is Maddie Berflus' bread and butter. So you have a good defense to rely on. You have some really good experience on that offense because of what Ryan

Pulse has done this off season and last and the one before it. So I have to think that the Bears have won the offseason, but we've seen them win the offseason a couple of times. And it's just kind of this, there's a meme that goes around on Twitter and it's just like, you are here in the Bears cycle of getting your hopes up and talking trash and whatever. And then, oh, it doesn't really quite pan out.

And then you're down and you're sorry. And you have, it's just this whole cyclical thing and i've seen it my entire life i grew up in chicago so it's hard for me to really get excited about it until i until i see it but i do think that the minnesota vikings did some wonderful things i think the lions are kind of under the radar because they made uh they kept strengths they kept their strengths their strengths uh and they have a couple more holes to kind of fill but they're a really well-rounded out roster too who was your first so you grew up in chicago who was your first hilariously disappointing quarterback that you remember like growing up oh my god um i mean i don't even think i knew most of the quarterbacks

names like when i was growing up because they were just cycling in and out I mean you had like I guess Eric Kramer was the best one but then you know leaves and then he gets a color a few years later uh I'm trying to even like I was such a defensive girl and I I maintain that I'm more of a defensive girl and like I know defense more than I know offense because I didn't have offenses to watch in Chicago when I was growing up everything was about the defense stemming from the 85 Bears all the way up into I mean Brian Urlacher, Lance Briggs. Lance Briggs is my all-time favorite Bear. I loved the way he played the game. I loved the violence with which defenses the Bears defense was was going after people which I know Minnesota is no stranger to,

you know, really good defenses, the purple people leaders, all that kind of stuff. So I don't know. I guess it was Jay Cutler not panning out the way we all thought he was going to. You really hoped that he was going to do something. And then, you know, he became a reality star and now he's beloved in Chicago, but it wasn't for his quarterback. Well, and the way that I framed the question was disappointing. And I guess if you have no expectations for Kyle or none or Rex Grossman,

then they wouldn't have been like an epic disappointment. I guess I was thinking about Cade McNown as being like the top draft pick coming out of UCLA. And then he was supposed to be good too. Right. Right. And greasy had been okay with Brian Greasy was supposed to be good too. Right, right. And Greasy had been okay with other places, but then a disappointment there.

So there was always, there was like a brief Henry Burris and Moses Moreno and Chad Hutchinson. And that just never... See, you know quarterbacks better than I do in Chicago. Like I said, I didn't pay attention to that side of the ball. I have a strange obsession with journeyman

quarterbacks so chicago has um a lot of them including one that's working for the vikings now and i was gonna say josh mccown yeah at his moment uh all right so let's let's focus on chicago then if they're the winner and then we'll work to the vikings and your opinions there but uh while we're debating fingernail polish, which means we've gotten to that point of draft season, I think we all know that means nothing and is not a thing. But with Caleb Williams, I do think that he's an interesting prospect to talk about because you can be opinionated on him. I remember with Andrew Luck when he came out, there was no other opinion other than,

yeah, this guy's going to be awesome. He's not at all controversial. He's not debated. He went to Stanford. It wasn't like going to USC and the attention that program got. So give me where the line should be for how much we should question some of the things that do get debated versus let's keep in mind that he is one of the best quarterback prospects to come out in a long time. Yeah. Obviously you don't ever want to compare him against one of the best quarterback prospects ever and quarterbacks then in the league, even though his career was cut short and Andrew Luck, I do see a lot. And again, this, please don't quote me as saying that Caleb Williams is Patrick Mahomes because he's not and we don't know that I don't want to put those expectations on him but when

you look at them as prospects there's a lot of similarities when it comes to the backyard football the hero ball can he help himself can he play with instructor those were all questions about Patrick Mahomes coming out of college and it's why he ended up falling a little bit in the first round. I see that in Caleb Williams, but what I don't see is recklessness with Caleb Williams' game. That supporting cast absolutely necessitated the hero ball, the backyard, the trying to create plays out of nothing because that offensive line was dismal. The defense wasn't doing them any favors. That was a necessity for Caleb Williams. And the fact that he was able to do that and then still only throw five interceptions last year is what tells me the most. Because you are playing this backyard brand of football where you're creating outside of structure, but you're still taking care of the football. And that's, I feel like when we talk about concerns with guys that

play outside of structure, we talk about, okay, but they can get reckless. That lends itself to picks and all that kind of stuff. So far, we haven't seen that from Caleb Loomis because even in 2022, he only had five interceptions then too. So you look at that and I'm like, okay, he's still making good decisions. And that is what is so exciting to me. And also all of these highlight reels of Caleb Williams are great and exciting, but it is all him playing it like, you know, just running around the backfield, throwing off platform, doing all this kind of stuff. Great. But if you watch full games of Caleb Williams, there are plenty of drives that he is elongating and staying in structure,

in rhythm, in all of that. And he can do that. He knows he can do that. And he tried to show that at pro day, which it's hard to do that when it's not even seven on seven. You've got no pressure in your face, no DBs with the receivers um but the fact that he wanted to make sure that people understood that he can absolutely operate a rhythm offense i think told you everything you needed to know i think he's going to be really great i was i've spent a lot of time talking to scouts and nfl evaluators about him and they all seem to have great things to say about him well it and from the evaluation people that i've listened to that do like content that's out there i mean rick spielman former vikings gm is one of them they really didn't have the same questions that you hear from a lot of the

media people it's more of he's been locked in and i think sean payton even talked about this at one point on the record that he's been locked in as that guy. And they didn't really question that at any point, or at least that's how it's coming across. And because there is a big gap between him and the next best guy, which throughout the season, I did wonder if we would hear the, is Drake May going to be number one or is Jaden Daniels going to be number one? And it's in their mind, in the NFL mind, his tools and his skillset puts him ahead of everyone else. I think you bring up a great point though about the interceptions is it can look reckless for sure, but Sam Darnold, who is now a Viking, go look at how he played at USC and all the interceptions and all the fumbles, which

Williams does have some fumble issues at times, but the turnover worthy plays were very, very high for Jameis Winston, for Sam Darnold, some of the guys who have busted. And that's not something Williams has. The other stat that stuck out to me about Caleb Williams is when he was throwing from a clean pocket, he had something like 140 quarterback rating. If you use the NFL's quarterback rating um that's on you know from PFF and like that tells me that when he does operate on time it's really really effective that team was just a lot more messy this year and that's not to say that he can't go bust it's just that his caliber of prospect I think as we pick apart every element uh you know you're always going to find these weaknesses but I do wonder about what you think of.

There's two minds that I have about what he dealt with at USC last year. And I don't mean that it's wrong to cry after losing, but you also have to kind of contain yourself and deal with failure. Did it help him, you think, to deal with failure last year? Or is it a sign that that might be something he has to learn how to do in the NFL? Like, how do you look at that? Yeah, I mean, everybody has to learn

how to do it at the NFL because the stakes are higher, the competition's more, you're going to fail at the NFL level. I don't see an issue with him leaning on a support system that clearly he feels safe and comfortable with, which is his mother and his father. I'm not going to fault him

for having a good relationship with his parents. And dealing with his emotions that way, he clearly cares. And I get that you don't want to see your leader crying and showing emotion in that way. But I think that there's strength in that. And I also, something I've talked to some NFL evaluators about, I just had this conversation actually with a director of college scouting, where this NIL generation of prospects, this is basically a practical wonderlick test for these guys because they've been used to making millions of dollars and being businessmen and having all of the distractions that make the transition into the pro game so much harder for these kids. And they have it at such a young age. You now see how he's dealt with all of that. You see how he deals

with his business outside of the things on the field. You also then see how he deals with things on the field amidst all of these distractions or whatever you want to call them. And he's navigated that really well. Something I brought up on my radio show this past weekend was, have you ever seen pictures of Caleb Williams drunk at a club or being reckless outside of football? Have you seen him be in the news for any bad reasons? And this is a 20, 21-year-old kid who lives in the middle of Los Angeles in Hollywood. And he's had millions of dollars at his disposal for years. So that, to me, tells me so much about his character and his ability to handle business that I have to think that that translates into the locker room and as a leader. So I'm not concerned about his ability to handle failure because he's been navigating these waters for years now. And I think it's going to make the transition into the NFL lifestyle just that much easier. Hey, U.S. cellular customers, I've got good news. So don't

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And you know, you know that Vikings fans are usually only looking to the East, that green Bay and caring, but now they kind of have to go with the Chicago team. The way that Ryan pulls pulled off a complete tank was because I have always been a big fan of tanking magical. I mean, just like executed the fact that you get the number one overall pick, you, you spot the mark in Carolina. Like, you know, like, okay, we should trade the number one pick with that team because they could

be giving up the number one pick back to us. And then doing it when there is such a great prospect at the top in Caleb Williams, really well done. But you mentioned that you think that it's a good situation for Williams to come into. Now, I don't think that history means anything to success, because if you look at the quarterbacks for the Buffalo Bills, the New Orleans Saints before Drew Brees, there's lots of franchises. And this is what Vikings fans have to grip onto as well. Lots of franchises who never got that guy until they did right and then that changed everything but I am curious about sticking with Ibraflus we all thought he was fired about eight weeks into the season he's not Kevin O'Connell

he's not a former quarterback he's the defensive head coach they're bringing in a new offensive coordinator and and I wonder how you think this dynamic will play out. DJ Moore certainly helps it. But how good of a situation, if you were to kind of rank like all the situations he could fall into, like how would you evaluate Chicago's and what they can give Caleb Williams? I'm not shy about saying that this is probably, I'm with Dan Orlovsky. This is the best situation a number one overall quarterback pick in a quarterback has gone into in recent memory, if not ever. And you just don't get this kind of support because usually teams are picking number one because they had the worst record in the league last year. That's not the case of the Bears right now. And again, this was all part of a plan and a strategy by Ryan Poles, who by his own accord said he was brought there to break a cycle. And that's so far been true. They have the chance to continue the cycle if they you kind of look at this on a macro level, in this rebuild.

You saw tangible improvement from them. I talked about it earlier, into a top five defense by the end of last season. That is perfectly on time, and that is exactly what you're asking Matt Eberflus to do. You are not ever going to ask a defensive head coach to develop a quarterback. That's not his job. That's not where he shines.

Nobody is good at everything in the NFL. So you bring in Shane Waldron, who has a track record of getting the most out of different kinds of quarterbacks, going back to Jared Goff, Russell Wilson, Geno Smith. kind of it's it's almost it's pretty simple they run a lot of play action and they it's a mid-zone kind of offensive scheme that they basically take four plays and they dress them up in different ways and they run different things out of these different looks and it's incredibly easy to kind of grasp as a young quarterback that i think that again that will help the transition again with all of this now experience between DJ Moore, Keenan Allen, you have Cole Comet, you have Gerald Everett now, who Shane Waldron worked with before. You have all these like this,

this experience on the offense that can help Caleb Williams along. And I do want to caution though. And I said this on TV last week or two weeks ago, whenever it was, I lose track of time. Winning the division should not be the expectation for the Bears. Is it possible? Sure it is. Let's not put these expectations.

Let's not skip ahead. Let's not put the horse in front of the cart when it comes to the Chicago Bears again. Let's get to a winning season first. If Caleb Williams has a winning season, if they have a shot at the wild card, if they make the playoffs, that is amazing. That's wonderful. That's all you want out of Caleb Williams and the Chicago Bears team this year.

I don't want to put the expectation of beating the Packers and the Lions and whatever the Vikings end up being this year. I just, I don't want to put those expectations on a young guy right away, even as good of a situation as he up being this year. I just, I don't want to put those expectations on a young guy right away, even as good of a situation as he's being put in. So I think it's the cart. And then the horse is what you don't want to do.

You want the horse in front of the cart. You want the cart, right? That's correct. Yeah. No, but I do think, I mean,

the addition of Keenan Allen really helps. And what is pretty clear to me from spending all this time pouring over draft history of quarterbacks is you can pretty easily tie together circumstances and success and say, all right, like the New York Jets and Sam Darnold. I don't know if he was ever going to be great, but he sure as heck was not going to be great there. And work with Zach Wilson there either. I mean, you talk about organizational dysfunction, which the Bears are not immune to be great there and work with Zach Wilson there either it didn't work I mean you talk about organizational dysfunction which the Bears are not immune to I get and right that's true and this is a tie-in now to our Vikings portion of the conversation which is you talk about Chicago and the number one pick being able to give that type of situation and I think the Vikings have an even better argument because they have Justin Jefferson.

It's not a great receiver. It's the best receiver and a head coach who is fully invested in this quarterback, but let's get your feeling on this. Are they sticking at 11? Are they trading up? How much would you trade up? What the heck is going on here?

Carmen, tell me something. Cause I'm looking for anything here. Well, you didn't trade with Houston for the number 23 pick not to stand pat at number 11, and you're not going to get one of the top quarterback prospects at number 11.

You're going to have to trade up, and I've been saying this all offseason that Minnesota is going to be aggressive because of the fact we heard reports from last year about how Kweisi was in the running and trying to trade up for CJ Stroud when they had a fraction of the capital they have now. So I have to think that now that you have nine draft picks and you have two of which are in the first round and you have some cap space to work with, that you

are going to be even more aggressive this year and you're going to take that amount. It's not going to be cheap. The Vikings are not the only ones that are going to try to trade up for a quarterback. So there's a lot of quarterback needy teams, and there's only so many of these great prospects to go around. I put up an article on foxsports.com. It was a thought exercise exploring trades that could get the Vikings their guy, whether that be Drake May, whether that be someone like JJ McCarthy, because they couldn't get Drake May. It was like plan A, B, C, D, whatever. I used comps from trades that have happened in the past. As useful as the Jimmy Johnson value chart has been, I think it's a little outdated and it's not something that you can really go off of. Even when it was kind of more accurate with the value

and stuff like that, you still couldn't go off of that because there's so many external factors in the draft that, again, you're competing with other teams. And it's a matter of if the teams that you're calling are willing to do these deals and what they're willing to do these deals for, what they have to sacrifice in the case of someone like the Arizona Cardinals. Are they going to trade down and get a haul? Or do they love Marvin Harrison Jr. that much that it's worth forfeiting that even though they have so many needs on that

roster is New England self-aware enough to know that they're probably not set up for a young quarterback right now and are to vacate that third spot and instead get the haul to again fill all the holes they have on that roster you just don't know and so the vikings are probably going to have to end up overpaying as is any team that wants to trade up to get one of these quarterbacks uh i i won't go through every scenario but i we've heard all the reports that they really like drake may is he going to be the number two quarterback off the board in washington i don't know and if he is how does that change things are they comfortable with jj mccarthy because they're still going to have to give up a haul to get into that top five. Are the Broncos going to try and snipe them and move up into there? Or are the Giants going to, they've got a lot less farther to go because they're picking at number six. is coming down from or coming up from 11 it's such a fascinating dynamic here but i think that

whoever comes in whether it be drake may whether it be jj mccarthy is going to be set up again in such a wonderful spot because you have kevin o'connell uh who's former quarterback of josh mccown former quarterback they know you know the ins and outs of these guys we saw kevin o'connell make it work with multiple backups last year after Kirk Cousins went down. I don't think it's being talked about enough, but this defense, if it continues the trajectory that it finished the season on, Brian Flores, I get that Daniil Hunter is gone, and so is Marcus Davenport.

For that matter, you can't get a ton out of him because of injury. But Jonathan Grenard is nothing to snuff at. This is a guy that had 12.5 sacks last year. And let's not forget, Brian Flores, that's more than Brian Flores ever had in Miami. He never had a double-digit sack guy in Miami. And I talked to him about it before the season last year, just about what his scheme kind of emphasizes

and how he gets things done. And he's been so creative and he's been creative out of necessity. He can continue to do that. And this is a defense that this team can rely on while you bring along a new quarterback. And maybe that's not even right away. I would not be shocked to see Sam Darnold start week one. And you kind of take the pressure. You didn't hand Sam Darnold that contract without thinking that there is a real possibility he's going to play some meaningful games for you. And that's fine. Because again, Kevin O'Connell, Josh McCown,

they know the value of being able to sit and ease your way into this league rather than have to be the guy right away. But I do think that Minnesota is set up better than most people think. And that's why I'm not discounting them when it comes to how competitive they're going to be next year, where they're going to like it's, it's this division is going to be so interesting to me and especially dependent on what happens in the draft this year folks if you don't know what a vpn is you might actually need one and not even realize it if you already know the positives

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Can't access that one website to buy limited edition sneakers? Use Surfshark VPN. Try Surfshark today totally risk-free with a 30-day money-back guarantee. Get Surfshark VPN at surfshark deals slash purple insider enter the promo code purple insider for three extra months for free you heard me right three extra months for free that is surf shark dot deals slash purple insider yeah i think that if they had to start sam darnold there is a world where they still are competitive uh it's just that the packers and lions are kind of so strong and what is really unusual about this carmen is that everybody had a plan a couple years ago the vikings were going

to competitive rebuild and the lions were going to tank and the bears were going to tank and the packers were going to do that thing where they develop the next superstar quarterback and it all worked for everyone i know it's so crazy like normally you go like all right two of those will fail maybe one of them succeeds and you'll be all right you'll be uh right there if you're one of those teams and yet it worked for absolutely everybody so i think that just going back to them moving on from cousins and going to draft a quarterback here it was absolutely vital like you couldn't run out the same thing you had before and expect to compete against these teams that were so much better it goes forgotten that when they won 13 games there was like half the

conference was tanking so it was a lot easier to do than it's going to be uh next year i do want to ask you how you feel about mccm, uh, because everyone's debating, uh, is, is JJ McCarthy worth trading up to first round draft picks to get if it is number four, I still think it could be number five, because if I'm Arizona, I'm kind of like, you know what Kyler Murray really needs gestures at Marvin Harrison jr. Or Malik neighbors, either one. Uh, and, and if they move to 11, then they're going to miss out on that. I don't know if they want to do that. Right.

So I've kind of started to look at number five as maybe the, as long as Jim Harbaugh doesn't hold the grudge at the Vikings for not hiring him a couple of years ago. This is good. This is so much heat right here with this thing. But do you feel like McCarthy is worth trading up the multiple first to get if they have to do that? I have to say yes, because J.J. McCarthy is worth what the Vikings deem him worth.

Like, it's worth it. If he's their guy and they believe that they can develop him into, like, their franchise quarterback, that's absolutely worth it. Because is that worth it to another team? Maybe not. Was J.J. McCarthy, you know, that high on other teams boards? Probably not. But this is where, you know, kind of the push pull of your needs versus best player available versus value.

Like this is all, you know, the amalgamation what the nfl draft is all about and why these front offices are you know so necessary because you have to weigh all right what what is he going to do for our team and the fact of the matter is i mean the vikings have some holes still on the defense still even you know interior offensive line all that kind of stuff but they really are still a good roster built there it's the good there's a good roster there and they don't have a good roster built. There's a good roster there. And they don't have a ton of needs. And you're not going to get anything done without the guy. And I, again, want to stress the trust that I have in if they make this move

and they deem J.J. McCarthy worthy of a top five pick, because I'm with you. I had them training up to number five with the chargers. Cause I think the chargers are really good candidates to trade down. It's just a matter of Denver is going to hop you into that third or fourth spot. It there again, it's going to be a whole mess, but I just have to think that between two former quarterbacks,

longtime backups in the league, you can develop a guy with the traits that J.J. McCarthy has. You haven't gotten to see a lot of how that manifests in an offense because he wasn't asked to do very much at Michigan. And I understand that there's some trepidation because of his lack of experience, overall experience and reps as compared to some of these other quarterback prospects. But it's worth it if the minnesota vikings deem it worth it that's that's the best i can say and again it's just that's different for every team um but we'll see i i'm very interested to see again if they really do like drake may that much and they they they you know

give the farm away uh to get him or if they give a little bit less of the farm away to get him, or if they give a little bit less of the farm, maybe just the barn to go get Jay McCarthy. That's a great metaphor. I like that because if you're trying to get Drake May at three, you know you're dipping into 2025 first round. And if you go to get McCarthy at five, you might not have to do that. And I think if you're the Chargers, you're saying, but don't you want to do that? Don't you like McCarthy that

much? And this dance is probably going to go on to draft night. I've sort of accepted our fate there, but you know, you make a good point. And I've been thinking about this. How rarely is it that us as journalists analysts are saying, I don't know, just trust them. They can figure it out. But in this case, the amount of knowledge that they have is who's going to give you a better chance. So even though I have my skepticism on McCarthy, I could still say, look, like you said, if O'Connell and McCown decide this is the guy, then go for it. Then do what you can.

Don't worry about my opinion on him. Then worry about theirs. And we'll talk about it when we get there to training camp and see what he looks like, but that's probably giving you the best chance. One more thing before you go, Jordan Love. Now Vikings fans, of course, knew that this was coming. They knew that they knew. They knew that as soon as they turned it over to another quarterback, they've seen it. They've seen the history. They knew it was going to happen. And then of course, he finishes the season about as well outside of that fourth quarter as he ever could have dreamed. Are you

believing that Jordan love is everything that we saw in the second half, or is it too much? Because we have seen, you know, Carson Wentz look great for a certain amount of time and Baker Mayfield won 11 games and looked great. Or are you looking at it as, sorry, guys, it's going to be a problem for a long time. Uh, I was looking at it as, sorry, guys, it's going to be a problem for a long time. Very early, like last season, what I did, um, in the very early onset was if I had a coach friend, uh, somebody that played against the Packers early in the season, I texted them and I was like, what do you think of Jordan Love? And every single time, every single coach was like, yeah, he's got it. He's got it. Like whatever it is,

he's going to struggle, whatever, but he's going to figure it out. He's a damn good quarterback. And I was like, okay. So I went all in. I was like, you know what? And again, I'm from, I'm from Chicago. I grew up there. I grew up with Brett Favre first and then Aaron Rod going straight to Aaron Rodgers. And I'm like, until this team building system of the Green Bay Packers doesn't work, I'm going to, I'm going to think that it's going to. Like, there's just nothing to suggest that this wasn't going to work out and i was going to have to see it to believe it and sure enough it didn't happen and what's really funny is i think a lot of bears fans thought it was and i was like aren't you all scarred like i am like like the rest of

the division is like this just works out for the packers this is a blueprint that no one else can follow because they're not the green bay packers the green bay packers are such a unique organization and they don't have an owner so you don't have all of these different pressures that so many owners put on their front offices. You can afford to be a little bit more patient. You can afford to quote unquote waste three years of a kid's rookie contract and it still end up working out for you. This was something, again, I just saw it really early on. And again, what we saw out of Jordan Love, even in training camp and then into the preseason, you were just like, okay, whatever it is, this kid's got it. And he's growing up with his team. This is such

a young team and they are figuring each other out together. And I feel like laying just a really good foundation for the packers to be really really good for a very long time much to the chagrin of the rest of the nfc north trust me no one understands that more than i do it's been kind of a mind you know what to have to cover this division now and be like yeah the packers have it all figured out and i'm like oh if 12 year old me heard me say that she'd be like what are we? We need to get out of whatever we're doing. The, uh, the young wide receivers developing last year, his connection with Matt LaFleur, like we've talked so much about circumstances. He's got a great situation, uh, to be able to go forward with. And I know that there are Vikings

fans who are in denial, but the way I look at it is this, if you're going to get there, you're going to earn it because this division has every team has worked out and it's about to be, I think the most competitive division in the entire NFL for, I don't know, the next five years is kind of how I'd project it right now. So you know what, we'll just have to talk about it more in the future. Uh, Carmen Vitale, it's been such an honor to have you on the show. I feel like we're on the same beat because i see you all the time but then i have to remember you're covering all these other teams as well so you handle it extremely well it's always cool to see you on tv on fox sports radio as well um so i don't remember

your twitter right off hand is it just carmen vitale no it's carmy v uh when i signed up for twitter in 2012 because of a class at arizona state uh dick vital had just signed up for twitter and so we i was like well my daddy's calling car me as a kid so i was like dicky v carmy v and then it just stuck and now uh to so many people i'm i'm carmy v now and it calls me carmy it's cute okay that's good at least you didn't put an underscore in it because people, some people early on did the underscore thing and they would have been like Carmen underscore NFL. And that's a nightmare for people to find. So I like that you have a good backstory for it.

So go follow our Carmi V on Twitter, of course, foxsports.com and just on your TV sometimes great to have you on. I hope that we can do it again soon. I really appreciate it. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. This was great.