Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Vikings NT Michael Pierce opts out and Ryan Harris tells Kubiak stories

Episode Date: July 29, 2020

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Coors Brewing Company, Golden, Colorado, and as always, celebrate. Hi, Blue Wire listeners. I'm Greg Olson. I'm excited to partner with Blue Wire to bring you TE1, a podcast where I interview the tight ends who have revolutionized the position. Listen in as I have raw, in-depth conversations with the all-time greats like Shannon Sharp, Tony Gonzalez, Travis Kelsey, and George Kittle. We'll explore how the tight end position has changed over the last 60 years

and what it takes to be the very best. Subscribe to TE1 from Blue Wire Studios today so you're ready for the August premiere. Alright, welcome into another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collard here, and joining me, a former Creighton-Durham Hall wrestler and football player, former Denver Bronco, a former Houston Texan, a Pittsburgh Steeler. Am I missing anyone? Ryan Harris, who now is a Sports Talk Radio host in Denver as well. What is up, Ryan? Not much, Talk radio host in Denver as well. What is up, Ryan?

Not much, Matt. Doing well, doing well. Did I skip any teams in there? Was there a stint with Kansas City or something? Yeah, yeah. Played a year with Kansas City before I came back to Denver and won the Super Bowl. So I had a tryout with the Vikings, but they ended up going a different direction as a guard got injured the game before.

So a fun 10 years in the NFL, nine surgeries, and a fun retirement. I'll tell you that. Fun retirement, Matthew. Yeah, I'm pulling up your Wikipedia page now, and it says you dislocated two toes. So forget that. Also, I'll just add in that the Vikings have never made a mistake on the offensive line. Yeah, them and every other team in the NFL. It's amazing, though.

Teams with good offensive lines consistently find the playoffs. I wonder if there's a connection there. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I guess if you went back and watched the Vikings play the 49ers, you might think last year in the playoffs that there might be a correlation between having some good offensive line play. But, well, I do want to ask you about that and playing for Gary Kubiak and why he consistently has offensive linemen that succeed. We'll get to that in a second. But I want to ask your opinion first on what's going on today in the NFL with a lot of players opting out. And

just as a former player, if you were making this decision now whether to play in 2020 how would you go about making that decision Ryan well you know for me as a father of three now it really depend on you know my family you know was I a parent am I bringing that home I mean even before COVID I mean you don't want to bring some of the things you can catch in the locker room home. But being an offensive lineman as well, my body mass index was a little high. And a lot of guys, people forget that NFL players are human beings. We have as many health issues and health histories as you do.

And one of the things that you have to take into account, talking to a couple of agents, they say every player's situation is different. And really it's going to be tough when they're inevitably become positive tests, you know, how players receive that, how teams, if it was, you know, if it was attracted in the facility, how do they treat it? If it was a player, you know, getting, you know, food, is that different? Will that affect them? So I know they've ironed that out in the CBA, but for me, I would just choose willful ignorance and just hope I don't get it and try and play because the other piece, Matthew, is about 70% of the NFL is broke right now, players.

So they need money and they'll risk every one and everything to get it. Right. You you know when people talk about millionaires and billionaires uh there's the billionaires are all the owners of course and only a handful of the players are really the millionaires and a lot of other guys are just fighting the good fight to try to become millionaires and get those big contracts but it's a really not a huge percentage of the nfl has Patrick Mahomes type contracts or whatever Delvin Cook might eventually get. So these decisions end up being financial and most guys can't just sit out. What is your confidence on how the NFL will be able to protect players in terms of their safety?

We know there's no 100% way to keep COVID entirely out when you have so many guys. There will be 80 at each camp this year. But NFL teams also have more resources than anybody else to test and to put in whatever measures they can possibly put in. Yeah, one thing I've been saying on my show, Corona knows, right? I mean, Major League Baseball has had every incentive as well, and they've got, I think now the report, 17 players of the Marlins have tested positive, and even knowing that some were feeling sick Friday had played through the weekend. So it will be difficult.

You know, one of the things I think the NFL must do is start the season early. I mean, why not start the season in August, give yourself some weeks on the back end to perhaps replay some games if 10 or an entire team contracts COVID to really make it possible to finish the season. Because we forget this is the NFL is really the first professional sport where they're starting a season after COVID has hit. I mean, even Major League Baseball is in the middle of spring training. So the NFL is really the litmus test on can you finish and operate a full season. And going on what they have right now, there are just only training camp protocols and some in-game protocols that don't make sense, like not being able to shake hands after you just put your hands on each other for the last 48 minutes. You know, these are things that I don't think the NFL has figured out 100 percent.

And I think anybody you talk to in the NFL will tell you, you know, the amount of risk is there, high, constant and persistent. They just have to do their best. Yeah, right. The fact that Major League Baseball was not able to create a bubble and neither is the NFL, it just leaves you open for one person getting it and then it's spreading through a locker room like wildfire. And then you have to just hope that no one gets severely ill, which is the other part of this that we really don't talk about enough. It's are they going to play? How many coronavirus cases could you decide to ignore to keep playing week after week? But then there's the other element of it being a pretty serious risk and some people having long-term issues with breathing. There's a Major League Baseball player with a heart issue from

catching coronavirus. And I guess I have so many questions, Ryan, just about how they will handle it when the time inevitably comes that there is a Marlins of the NFL. Will they just say, hey, quarantine those 15 guys, let's get out there and play on Sunday? Or would they have to shut it down because the team they just played would all have to be tested again and all have to be maybe quarantined or wait, the team they're about to play wouldn't be able to play them. I mean, there's just so many things that we don't know well the good thing about the nfl is that there's so much talent that even a guy like adam thielen can be undrafted and become one of the best receivers in the nfl right so the idea that just because you're not going to see kirk cousins doesn't mean that you're

not going to see a quarterback that can help you win a game or that you're not going to see delvin cook doesn't mean that a running back you know can't help you win the game i anticipate teams um having using the extra players on the practice squad to run alternate practices and alternate schedule to that to key positions so you have an extra swing tackle an extra guard center an extra running back and quarterback you know that can kind of do these things. So if anybody does get injured or sick from COVID, that you're able to plug in place some people who already know your offense or defensive scheme. Right. And keeping the bigger practice squads really helps that.

And the Vikings have a number of bench players who at least were here last year that would be able to step in that know the system. I'm curious about your opinion on this, Ryan, because you would know having this firsthand experience. Michael Pierce is going to opt out for the Vikings, so he's not going to play this year. Under the Zimmer era in Minnesota, they've always had a great nose tackle and Linval Joseph, Pierce bringing a lot of the same skill set.

Now that he's out, what does it do for a defense when they have one of those beasts in the middle that weighs 350 pounds and can take up two gaps I mean it just seems like someone like Zimmer knows his stuff defensively and he always wants to have one of those guys explain it to me from an offensive lineman's perspective yeah when you have a big nose tackle or kind of inside defender, they're really a wild card because their penetration ruins zone runs and gap schemes, and if you stunt them at all, they really can cover three gaps depending on if they guess right or not.

And I go back to what Mike Tomlin always said when we were at the Steelers. He said, hey, if I'm building a defense, I want a big nose tackle up front. Casey Hansen, man. Yeah, I mean. He's a monster. For every Super Bowl team, you can name one player, you know, on the inside that really wreaked havoc. Lee Jackson was that for us the year we won Super Bowl 50.

And, you know, you can look back, Chris Jones last year for the Chiefs. So that's really an important position, and increasingly that's a more athletic position than it typically was. I mean, Vince Wilfork, when he played that zero-nose, he wouldn't go in many places. But you've got other guys that can do it. The benefit for the Vikings is you have one of the best young defensive ends in Danil Hunter. I mean, doing the sidelines for Monday Night Football on the Vikings-Seahawks game, I got to see Danil Hunter up close.

And that is a dynamic player who really is going to make anyone with marginal talent on the inside look better than they are. Before we get back to the conversation, I want to remind you to go to sodastick.com to get your original Minnesota sports-inspired goods. Baseball is back, and SodaStick just launched its latest partnership with Hormel Foods and the Tommy Watkins Foundation to pay homage to the Hormel Row of Fame. It debuted in the Metrodome in 1992, and though it's been long retired, you have an opportunity to check out the latest T-shirt called the Wiener Winner. Great for lunch, great for dinner.

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if nobody else can come in and they might have to sign someone else you have experience playing for Gary Kubiak and I kind of joke around on the show Ryan that everyone loves Gary because everyone I have ever talked to loves Gary can you explain this to me I, Gary Kubiak just seems to have a way of connecting with players that very few coaches ever do. Well, you want the steam room story or do you want the pregame story? You know, one example is in the steam room one day I'm walking in and someone's got their socks on and they're laying out all over, you know, and it's steamy in there.

You can't see it. So I come in there as a veteran, you know, thinking it's some kind of rookie trying to get a hangover out and so i pick up i tear off the socks and move the feet who the hell is this you know stop laying down in here and kubiak goes hey sorry ryan i thought i was the only one oh gross sorry you know and gary kubiak is a phenomenal coach for many reasons, one of which stems from the fact that he played in the elite level and won a championship as a backup with the Broncos. Also has been around great coaches, and he understands players. You know, one example is we had a snowstorm flying into Chicago,

and, you know, we were about two hours behind, so he goes, hey, we're going to have 15-minute offense and defense meetings, 15-minute special teams, and we're going two hours behind so he goes hey we're gonna have 15 minute offense and defense meetings 15 minutes special teams we're gonna have a quick team meeting get to your rooms well we won that game and so I go to Gary afterwards at breakfast the next day I say you know Kooves did you notice you know we had shorter meetings and we won the game he goes you think we should keep that up I said I think we should coach and for the rest of the season we had these shortened meetings and won a Super Bowl.

So he's receptive to ideas. He understands that his job as a coach is to prepare players and players to play, and he asks for players' input. I never played for a coach that not only himself respected players, but every coach on his staff understood what they were asking of players, had high expectations, and also knew that it's a tough game. But the best thing Gary Kubiak did before every game, playoffs, Super Bowl, he'd say the same thing.

Hey, man, there are no mistakes out there on that field. If you make a mistake, it's on us as coaches. We didn't get you right before the game. Go out there, play fast, play with your personality, and let's have some fun. And when you get that kind of a green light from your head coach, it really is an enormous boost as a player. Yeah, I've heard that from numerous players about Kubiak of just, even when he talks to the media,

he finds a way to take responsibility for what happened himself and not just pin it on the players. So what happened out there, and he's going to say, you know, well, maybe we should have done this or that also. And even quarterbacks, you know, my buddy Sage Rosenfels, or I talked to Steve Berline about this, where if they made a mistake on a read, he would just ask them, well, what happened out there? And how can we fix it the next time as opposed to, you know, going crazy. And I'm sure that that's part of his experience as a coach and actually being out there. I'm also sure that that's why he was laying down in the steam room and that man's got old knees he's got old knees he was out there right hey man get your socks out of here you know

but you bring up a good point you know I never understand and I see it more in young football and I'm a guy who doesn't start playing until it was 14 at Jimmy Lee Rec Center. Shout out to Jimmy Lee there in St. Paul. But coaches will rip their players and you need that player to help you win the game. So I've never understood that, and that's something Gary understands as a player. No player in the

NFL is going to make a mistake and not know what happened. And if you're the type of player that's going to be successful in the NFL, you're already working on it before the drive ends. And if it is a drive-ending mistake, you're thinking about it on the way over. And instead of screaming at you, you have a conversation about it. And that really continues to build production in the game, as well as keep a player's confidence high, which if a player plays without confidence, it's over.

And look no further than the last Super Bowl. I mean, down 10 points with seven and a half minutes to go, Andy Reid could have screamed at Patrick Mahomes for his second interception. Instead, he knew that Patrick Mahomes was going to be the only chance they had to get back in the game. You need that player. You've got to build him up. The time to tear him down and fix mistakes is the next day in meetings.

Gary Kubiak has the least amount of ego that I've ever met in a head coach. Numerous times we come back at halftime, and understanding what a team was going to do differently, maybe than we had prepared for, you know, he said, hey, they're playing man, we're going to dial up our man beaters. Hey, they're playing zone, we're going to dial up our zone beaters. And so many coaches in the NFL want to be the brilliant offensive mind that it doesn't matter what you do, you can't stop

us. So that's a great theory to have when you're drinking beers with your buddies, but that's not how you win football games in the NFL. So his ability to change in-game as well as, you know, I think about one game we had the year we won the Super Bowl, we were playing the San Diego Chargers, and we were just running the ball like crazy. We came out of a drive where we stalled out throwing three straight passes, and I went up to him and said, Coach, we are kicking their ass up front. You've got to let us run the ball.

And I think we had over 200 yards rushing then for the day because he was willing to listen to the input and change what he wanted to do what he thought was best and play the game that was being played and when you have a coach that can do that you're so flexible you're so lethal and provided you got a defense that doesn't let the game out of hand you can make some mistakes to make a bigger play later yeah that's a remarkable and i feel like i hear it more and more from the coaches that succeed of being flexible. And even Doug Peterson in the Super Bowl listening to Nick Foles to run the trick play. Right.

I mean, so really special. Yeah. And the other thing is that NFL players now they just they know the game so well. Like it's I don't know if this was that way in the 70s or whatever. But players now, when you talk to them about X's and O's, it's like a lot of them could coach the team themselves if they needed to, because they know so much about the game. So why wouldn't you take that input if you're a coach? You're only getting a lot of help there. The other thing I wanted to ask you about, Gary, and your time in Denver, winning the Super Bowl and what it takes, because I asked Gary myself like what it takes to get over the hump and you know humble Gary he gave me the well you just got to get into

the play you know how he kind of turns his head to the side well you know you know I just I was out there building the fence and I was thinking about this anyway yeah out on the ranch so maybe I will next time I see him give him a hard time about wearing his socks in the steam room. But I don't know if I'm on that level with Gary yet. But his answer was, well, you just got to get in the playoffs and then you kind of see what happens. But I tend to think that there's probably more to it than that. So with a team like yours in Denver, it was a complete team effort. It was defense.

It was running the ball, and Peyton doing what he needed to do at the right times. What did you think it was that got you over the hump with that team specifically? We had a great team, historically great defense, and we had a veteran team that was unlike anything I'd been a part of, and myself included. Much of the team had lost Super Bowl XLVIII with being one of the best offenses in history.

And I think that experience really created the fact that we see every single Super Bowl the best team wins. And the best team is one that says no matter what the score is, we're winning this game. We're willing to do whatever it takes, however it takes, takes whoever needs to eat whoever needs to have an empty plate whoever needs to have a full plate we're going to get this meal finished and so we had an extreme willingness as well as a great as well as with gary kubiak one of the things he did after we won the afc championship which after beating the patriots twice in the same year no one had ever done that

before it'd be easy to feel good about yourself and spend time with family. He said, boys, I'm going to give you the next couple days off, and when you come back, I need 12 days. I need 12 days from you guys to lock in, we'll win a championship, and then you can do whatever the hell you want. Heck, I might join in some of it, you know? But his ability to take this massive goal that had been elusive for most of the players on our roster, DeMarcus Ware, myself, Juan Miller, you know,

Peyton after his first one, his ability to understand as players, we've got all this noise. Here's what it's about. I need 12 days from you, man. I need 12 days for you guys to become champions. Who's not signing up for that? His ability to refocus. And so a lot of it is just on the team and the willingness and the level of competition you're willing to go at

and practice fights. We have fights all the time, but you know what? That's good because we're raising the bar. But then a coach that takes all of that talent and personalities and says, be talented, let your personality shine, and frames each victory for what it is to get to the next step yeah and i found with the 2017 vikings being inside that locker room players pushing each other there is no way to quantify the value of that no matter what statistic you can look at

if you're having guys who are consistently making each other better and being selfless to you know teach younger players or just compete with each other better and being selfless to, you know, teach younger players or just compete with each other through training camp all the way through. I think that's a key for what you see from good teams. Ryan, before I let you go, I wanted to ask you about your Broncos out there. You're in Denver. You work for 92.5 in Denver. They're a really intriguing team, man, because I think that the roster is good, the weapons are good, and it seems like everyone there is high on Drew Locke. But when it's a second-year quarterback who hasn't had much experience, I don't know. Can you sell me on the Broncos, or are you skeptical?

Well, the key part about the Broncos is they've got Noah Fenton, Cortland Sutton, two players, and Noah Fenton's going into his second year. But Noah Fenton had more receiving yards than Rob Gronkowski's rookie year. And he did so with three different quarterbacks over the course of the season. So you get some continuity at the quarterback position with Drew Locke, and that really helps, not only in understanding cadence, understanding play calls in the huddle, especially when you're gasping for air. Those things do make a difference, and through stability comes wins in the NFL.

I'll also tell you they've got some big pieces on defense coming back. Bradley Chubb, double-digit sacks his rookie year. Missing him last year was big for the Broncos and a big reason why they weren't extremely successful. Also, big free agent signings. Bryce Callahan as a corner and Juwan James as a right tackle. Both of those players were injured throughout the season. Callahan not playing at all. So that really affected them.

You get multiple veterans back who have experience playing at a high level and producing at a high level. That's really going to help your team. The only bad thing is you're in the same division as the Kansas City Chiefs. It's going to be tough to win one, if not two, of those games. And then also the Oakland Raiders are a team that's very much under the radar Derek Carr is an incredible quarterback and with the weapons he has now uh through the draft and some returning um they're going to be pretty good especially with their running back from Alabama Jacobs well it's a really interesting team that you're going to get to cover we will

hope and cross our fingers that football does go off or at very least that you know even if we have some starts and stops we end up with a full season because the number of storylines in the NFL this year is outrageous Tom Brady's in Tampa Bay if we didn't forget so there's a lot going on to cover Ryan you are awesome to follow on Twitter. You're in the media. You've written a book called Mindset for Mastery. You do it all, man. Thanks for coming on. I really appreciate connecting with you. Hey, Matthew. Thanks for having me. You know us Minnesotans do all things very well. We'll get back to the conversation in just a second, but have you ever heard of deal-dot-com?

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All right, welcome back to Purple Insider. We welcome in a guy who was on the show not that long ago doing a really in-depth, deep dive breakdown. It was 30 minutes of hardcore nose tackle football talk. And Luke Inman on Tuesday, all of that, put sticks of dynamite in it and blew it to a million pieces when Michael Pierce decided to opt out. You did a really, really great in-depth video on all the things Michael Pierce was about to bring to the Vikings. And you know what, Luke? You can bring it back in 2021 because he'll still be here then. Well, until then, I've officially put in my retirement papers.

I'm done with the video breakdowns. I apparently have a curse on this thing. I'm not going to put anybody else, any of the other 90 players in danger. I'm done. We'll wait. I promise. I don't have a voodoo doll or anything over here. But, yeah, super unfortunate because that was obviously, as we'll get into,

that was their one prize free agent. They didn't have a lot of money to work with the front office of the Vikings, and that was the one big splash that they went and made. Obviously replaced Limbaugh Joseph, who was dominant for a few years. But I think myself and a lot of other people, we were excited to see what, you know, hitting the reset button and get some rejuvenation at the nose tackle position was going to be able to do for this defense in front seven and the rush defense.

And unfortunately, we just won't see that in 2020. We'll have to wait a year. Just the other day, on Saturday, Mike Zimmer was talking about how important it is to have that position, stuffing a couple of gaps, making life easier on the linebackers to shoot those gaps and tackle running backs and things like that. This is a really important position in Zimmer's defense. It's always not one that gets the most credit, the big fat guy in the middle. But I think when Lindvall Joseph was here, people really understood what that nose tackle does in

Zimmer's defense. And stopping the run on first down, even if it is changing to where teams don't run as much, is vital for him to get teams in second down and long as many times as you possibly can. And that does become harder now because you lose one of the elite run stoppers in the entire NFL. Yeah, no doubt. I mean, Limbaugh at his peak under Zimmer in this Vikings defense with Andre Patterson, 2015-2016. We saw a dominant nose tackle. And it wasn't just putting those teams in the second and long. It was eventually the third and long situations that we saw really Mike Zimmer

really make his money. And I think those third and long situations you saw in 2017 when they had the, you know, they broke the record for third down percentage stoppage basically. And it was under something like 22%, something insane where teams just could not convert third downs on this defense because in large part, something insane where teams just could not convert third downs on this defense because, in large part, they were put in such tough situations and got into those third and long

situations. So Linval, the nose tackle position, whoever it was, they had a large part to do with that, no doubt. Linval kind of trailed off a little bit. You saw it actually in 2018, the rush defense really slipped and you saw Mike Zimmer say, you know, that's just not our style. Mike Zimmer comes in in 2014. He takes over the league worst 32nd ranked defense. And he says, first thing we got to do, we got to stop the run. I don't care if it's a passing league. And this team, what I want to do, we got to win in the trenches,

both offense and defense. We got to run the ball. We got to stop the run. 2018, they started to slip a little bit. Last year, though, they kind of fixed that. They kind of tightened up some screws a little bit, and they got back to Mike Zimmer football. And, again, it starts with stopping the run on the early downs.

And I don't know the plan from here on out, man, because Michael Pierce, as you just laid out, Mike Zimmer said, Pierce was going to fix and be able to do a lot of things for this defense on early downs I don't know what the game plan is going to look like now going forward with the personnel that they have it seems like they just don't have a complete nose tackle on the roster albeit they've got two or three names which we'll go over that that have some intriguing skill sets but but not that one guy that's a complete nose tackle right now.

Yeah, let's get into those. Armin Watts plays nose tackle week 17 and was great. He had a dominant week 17. We've discussed it a little bit from time to time on the show. And you could say, well, you know, Chicago maybe wasn't trying their hardest, but those are still NFL starting offensive linemen. He was getting after the passer from the nose tackle position, which you rarely see, but those are still NFL starting offensive linemen. He was getting after the passer from the nose tackle position, which you rarely see, but Lindvall did at his peak,

and he was able to stuff the run at a reasonable enough level to make it worth it to have him in there. There are guys who can get after the passer from the nose tackle or three technique position that are not worth it in playing on first down because they'll just get steamrolled over so they end up being rotational players but Watts is a big enough guy where he might be able to handle the early down so he's my favorite to go in there assuming that they don't sign someone there are free agent options if they want to go that way yeah no doubt I think Armin Watts is by far the most intriguing because he's got the highest upside. He's still only 21, give me 22 this season. And, you know, as big as he is for 21, 22 years old, he still needs to get bigger.

So double teams he's still going to have some issues with. But you see the potential in the ceiling, as you saw week 17. And even earlier than that, when they plugged him in once in a while, he looked really good. Quick off the snap, like you said. He'd get into the back field, a lot of tackles for loss, quarterback hits. The pressure inside the pocket to collapse that pocket internally is something, again, like you said, you just don't see a ton from pure nose tackles. So whether it's him, Jaleel Johnson, who's played a little bit of both the three-tech

and the nose, and then Shamar Stephan, again again a nose or a three tech has that kind of versatility you may see all three of those guys kind of mixing and matching a little bit trying to fill the shoes of michael pierce meanwhile who's going to fill the shoes of the three tech then maybe if betty o'denna both slides inside jalen holmes is still a name to think about and hercules mata offa i think if we're excited about Armin Watts as a nose tackle I'm just as excited to see Hercules Mata'afa and what he's done this offseason and see what he can do as a three tech because he's so quick too and we haven't even mentioned any of the rookies James Lynch the big 12 defensive lineman of the year Kenny Willekes DJ Wanamore edge rushers but you've

got a lot of bodies there but certainly you're right I think it's going to be a a mix and match scenario between Watts, Jaleel Johnson and Shamffen, at least on the early goings here. We'll get back to football in just a second, but first, sports are coming back. So are your chances to bet on your favorite teams and events. Major League Baseball finally kicking off, and there's no better place to start wagering than our exclusive partners, BetOnline. Check out all the odds, features, and props to BetOn, all available at 24-7.

So with the return of sports, BetOnline sat down with former players Eddie George, Harold Reynolds, and seven-time champion Robert Ori, see what they had to say and what it's like playing without fans in a series they're calling Fandemic. Visit BetOnline.ag for all of your odds and up-to-date sports news. And remember to use the promo code BLUEWIRE to receive your new welcome bonus. That's promo code BLUEWIRE. BetOnline, your online wagering expert. I wouldn't be surprised either if they brought somebody in, some free agent who's a veteran that might not necessarily start, but is another body that they could use. I remember in 2018, David Perry.

What's he up to these days? David Perry. They liked him in that kind of role, and they ended up cutting him eventually, but he made the team out of camp in part because he was that guy who could come in as Linval Joseph's backup. And Jaleel Johnson has filled in during the times that Joseph has been out at the nose tackle position and he goes at about 315 320 he's one of the more weighty guys but Luke I just

haven't really seen it with him making a difference he's kind of just been a guy out there the times that he's been in and now we're going on what year four for Jaleel Johnson. This is a huge opportunity for him, assuming they don't bring in someone who would be an instant starter off the free agent market. But that it's a big opportunity for Jaleel who was not super thrilled on Twitter when he heard a clip of our friend, Sam extra when I talking about his status for this year, but you know,

he hasn't done anything yet. And the times that he's filled in, it just hasn't been good yet. And the times that he's filled in, it just hasn't been good enough to be a starter. This could be his chance to prove that he can be a starter, whether it's here in the future or when Pierce comes back, it ends up being somewhere else. Yeah, no doubt. I feel for Jaleel, man, because ever since the get-go when he was brought in from Iowa, I think 2015, that draft in the fourth round, the coaches have just kind of flip-flopped him quite a bit. He's flashed a little bit at nose.

He flashed a little bit at three-tech. But, you know, now it seemed like, okay, with Michael Pierce signing, Jaleel's going to be used more as the three-tech than anything else. And now it seems like he's got to switch gears not only physically but mentally again now. And I just feel for him and, you know the disconnect with him and the coaches and the roster not being able to just pick one position and just develop at that it's I feel like it's kind of stunted his growth and development and and progression a little bit

unfortunately so yeah you're right I mean you mentioned some other guys you know they could bring in you mentioned David Perry they could bring in a guy like Pecco from Cincinnati, again, has a connection with Mike Zimmer. He's 34 years old, though. Snacks Harrison, who was in the division for the Detroit Lions, he's only 31, not nearly as much wear and tear. And he's a guy, compared to Pecco, that's got a little bit more push up the middle as far as collapsing the pocket, getting in the backfield. He's got a lot more tackles for loss. But it just doesn't seem like, and I want to get your take, it just doesn't seem like the Vikings are the team that usually kind of goes outside and signs these guys this late in the process.

They want to solve these usually internally. They have faith in the process, the guys they drafted, the guys they brought in. And it's kind of that next man up philosophy, similar to what you always see in New England, the guys they drafted, the guys they brought in. And it's kind of that next man up philosophy, similar to what you always see in New England, the next man up philosophy. And I think, and you'll have to correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they're going to end up saving quite a bit of cash here. Now that Michael Pierce is off the books, I think they got to pay him 350K, maybe 2 million signing bonus. So what do you do with that extra cash? I don't think they go sign somebody.

But instead, now that you've got some extra money to play with, maybe now is when we see a Dalvin Cook extension or somebody else. I think Cook and Anthony Harris are the two big names next year. But there's some other free agents, Eric Wilson and what have you. So it'll be interesting to see how this all plays out. But I think if I had to pick one solution, I think they want to solve this issue internally. And then again, that means Jaleel, Armin Watts, or Shemar Steppen, probably a rotation, if anything. Well, that's what I was

going to ask you is your opinion on if I give you $5 million in cap space, which is what I believe Michael Pierce opens up for this year, because that's all he was going to take up for this year, and then his cap goes up over the next two years. Instead, now his $5 million cap hit, from my understanding, will be in 2021, which actually does help them, because it was going to go up in 2021. Now they get the same player, only for a reduced cap hit for 2021. So not a bad break for the future for them. But if you have $5 million to spend on a one-year deal, would you spend it on a defensive tackle to replace Michael Pierce, a veteran cornerback to come in and start potentially right away with the young players that you have there, or an offensive guard to come in and potentially start right away with the young players that you have there or an offensive guard to come in and

potentially start right away which is the best way to spend this money if you know if they're not using it to spread out a Delvin Cook extension which I think is a pretty likely scenario but let's just say they're going to spend it on another play yeah like you said I think ideally I think in a perfect world you you try to get the Cook deal done especially now that you got the extra cash but in this scenario that we'll go, I like the guys that they've brought in the last year or two at both guard to compete with Pat Offline. We're talking about guys like Drew Samia. Obviously, they really like Ole Udo.

And there's some other young guys too, like Kyle Hinton. And what's Ezra Cleveland going to play? Is he going to play left tackle, or are they going to try him out at guard right away? So that's three names I'm more confident in than, let's just say, the nose tackle rotation that we just talked about. I think Snacks Harrison could be a huge upgrade from what they have right now in a Shamar Steffen, Jahlil Johnson type of mix and match role. And as far as the cornerbacks go, listen, it's going to be a lot of trial and error this year, no doubt. Mike Hughes is now your number one cornerback,

but I really like what I saw from both Holton Hill and Chris Boyd as far as progression and development goes. And then everything I've seen from the tape, Jeff Gladney seems like he can come in right away and have an impact. And Cameron Dantzler, despite being a quote-unquote project, he on film shut down some of the best SEC receivers in the game, Henry Ruggs, Jerry Judy, and so on and so forth. So I think there's enough potential there to give a quote-unquote guru like Mike Zimmer, give him a few more weeks, a few more months, let him kind

of mold and develop those young guys. And I think if anything, if it's guard, corner, or nose tackle, I think you go spend that money on a one or two year deal on a guy like Snacks Harrison or Pico again with the ties and connections back in Cincinnati with Mike Zimmer yeah I like that too because if you lose one more defensive tackle then what are you doing at that position like you said you don't want to have to move a Fadi Adenabo in and try to play or try to play James Lynch all the time, try to play DJ Wanham at defensive end all the time. I don't think, or even someone like, you know,

Mata Afa, who I'm not sold on yet, or Jalen Holmes, who hasn't shown us anything yet. I think you lose one of those guys and you have a below average or replacement level player starting. I don't think you want that. You'd much rather have some free agent depth. But I do agree with Mike Zimmer on two things. One, he said they need to protect Kirk Cousins better than they did last year. They were 10th in the NFL in terms of drop back percentage where he was pressured. That's not good enough, especially for an offense that

rolls the quarterback away from pressure all the time. You should be in the top ten if you run a play-action rollout offense in terms of pressure. And I also agree with Zimmer, who once said you can never have too many corners. So if they brought in a veteran corner to compete, let's say it's Dre Kirkpatrick, and Kirkpatrick is not as good as Holton Hill in camp, then say, okay, see ya. You know, and you just move on and go a different direction or keep him as a backup like they had Tremaine Brock in 2017 or George Iloka in 2018. I think there is some value to at least knowing that the player behind the starters is going to at least be average when he steps in or know what he's doing when he steps in. So, Luke, what's the

Twitter these days? You've got your Twitter back? I got the OG back, baby. So move on from, yeah, at Luke underscore Spinn in NFL. I appreciate the follows this last year. I'm out of Twitter jail officially. Got that back maybe a few months ago now. So follow me once again if you're not already, at Luke underscore Spinnman. Like I said, out of Twitter jail.

Feels good. Hopefully we don't visit that place anytime soon. Not a fun place to be. And your work at Zone Coverage. And be very careful the next time you do an extreme in-depth video piece because this one blew up in your face. I'm done. I'm done, man.

It's over. It's over. We'll see you like Michael Pierce. We'll see you in 2021, man. That's over. It's over. We'll see you like Michael Pierce. We'll see you in 2021, man. That's right. All right. Well, thanks for your time. As always, Luke, we'll catch up again very soon.

You got it, man. Talk to you soon.