Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Vikings owner Mark Wilf talks Jefferson, Cousins contracts

Episode Date: August 9, 2023

Matthew Coller talks about comments from Mark Wilf about Justin Jefferson and Kirk Cousins's contract situations, updates you from the Vikings' second night practice and then takes fan questions about what we should expect to see in the preseason, including whether the Vikings should play Jordan Addison and if there's likely changes on the offensive line. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

🎵 Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here, late night, after dark version. Once again, as I have just returned from the Minnesota Vikings night practice part two, only part two, I have to say was quite a bit less intense than part one. The Vikings did not practice with pads tonight in front of probably somewhere around 5,000 fans. They mostly did seven on sevens and you can understand why they have to travel tomorrow, play the Seattle Seahawks in a preseason game, then travel back and then start up a pretty intense week of practices that very soon is going to have the Tennessee Titans coming into Minnesota. So I think that Kevin O'Connell wanted to take it on the lighter side.

So it was just shorts and shoulder pads and they got a lot of work done in front of everybody, but it wasn't the same sort of 11 on 11 football intense that the night practices when they, for the first one, try to kind of put on more of a show for the fans. Tonight was more of a much more routine light practice for the Vikings. And as far as notes from the actual practice go, and trust me, we do have things to talk about because the owner of the Minnesota Vikings talk today. And, uh, I was there for that. A couple of things that we've pulled a couple of clips, uh, for you guys, him of him talking Mark Wilf about, uh, Kirk Cousins contract about Justin Jefferson's contracts. We will discuss that, but from a note perspective uh really only like Ivan Pace was doing his thing with Jordan Hicks again Brian Asamoah did not practice in any of the seven on seven scenarios tonight and it

looked like he did the warm-up so I don't know if he got hurt in the warm-ups or there was a reason he was sitting out to the side or if there's another injury or illness or whatever it might be that happened with Brian Asamoah, but he was not out there practicing in full. So it will be interesting now to see if he actually plays in the game. Maybe, you know, if somebody gets banged up just a little bit, then it's probably better to hold them out, play them in the game. But if, and when, and where Brian Asamoah plays in the game will be something to watch because it feels like ivan pace jr has passed him and has been taking mostly all of the reps especially the important ones with jordan hicks and that continued tonight hey for those folks

the other night who came on and said why sign nikhil har Harry he had the two best catches tonight now that's of course with no pads and you know just getting a couple of throws from Nick Mullins but Nikhil Harry has had a nice start to his Vikings career with some good catches that he's made over the first couple of days that stood out to me uh today and you know the backup linebacker position beyond Ivan Pace Brian Asamoah Jordan Hicks is kind of interesting you got Troy Reeder Troy Dye William Kwemku so there's a a battle that we haven't talked a whole lot about to keep an eye on because so much of the focus has been on Ivan Pace there's so yeah I definitely want to answer a lot of your questions i'll get to those in just a second um but you know as far as other notes to take from tonight's practice not a whole heck of

a lot honestly when you have seven on sevens it's just not all that intense and not a lot changes they just kind of go out there and go through the motions a little bit and then get ready to play the game but i did want to get right into Mark Wilf's comments, a couple of them, one about Justin Jefferson and the other about Kirk Cousins. He was asked, Mark Wilf, the owner of the Vikings, asked about whether the ownership will be involved in the discussion about Justin Jefferson's contract, considering how big it's likely to be and what he means to the future of the franchise. And here's what he said.

I think that's fair to say. And we, you know, certainly Kwesi and Rob Brzezinski and coach, everyone's working together on the contract. But we're certainly aware of it at the magnitude of this one. And in general, we're certainly aware, certainly involved. And Justin Jefferson, we want him to to stay as a minnesota viking okay now compare how he talked about justin jefferson where similarly to quesia da flamenca there has been no question at all about the public message from the leadership of the vikings about jefferson contract of which as far as i know there has been no reporting about any movement, no buzz.

Jefferson's just practicing every day, nothing coming from the Vikings. But then again, we were surprised by Daniil Hunter signing kind of just one day we wake up and, oh, Hunter has a contract now. So I don't know that even the reporting Illuminati, which kind of messed up today, by the way, there was a report that Anthony Barr was joining the New Orleans Saints, and then he wasn't. So sometimes even the big outside NFL network and ESPN reporters don't have it right. But usually when it comes to these extensions, they get them done.

It's last minute. And then, oh, all of a sudden there's a report like that it's happened. We don't really hear like, oh, there's a report like that it's happened we don't really hear like oh there's momentum growing toward or they're getting close it just kind of happens so one day we're going to wake up to an announcement that jefferson has an extension or we won't um so i don't know where that stands mark wilf did not show his cards to where that stands other than just to say how important it is to ownership and how important it is to the franchise that they do extend Justin Jefferson. Now, here's what he had to say about Kirk Cousins.

Again, we're just we'll leave that to Kwesi and coach to work through those discussions. There's always conversations that but our real focus is 100 percent on 2023 and getting where we need to be and where I know we can be. Yeah, right. So quite a bit different messaging from Mark Wilf, where it goes from Justin Jefferson, look, we want this guy. We are going to do anything. I would jump in front of a moving vehicle to keep Justin Jefferson. What about Kirk Cousins extension? Well, look, we're just focused on today. We're going to have a practice. What about a Kirk cousins extension? Well, look, we're just

focused on today. We're going to have a practice. What are you guys talking about? Extensions contracts? Come on, please. Uh, so it was an interesting dichotomy, but there's your update from Mark Wilf. And the other thing that he talked about, uh, the most important thing was that they will, uh, be honoring Bud Grant. That was why Mark Wilf came out and spoke to us. And I think they're doing a great, great job in honoring Bud Grant throughout this whole off season. They had the kind of the, well, I don't know what you call it, maybe an event to honor him, a memorial to honor him right after he passed away.

But now they're going to have a patch that they wear in the opener. And then they're going to have something on their helmets for the entire year. And I can show that to you guys. So this is, if you're watching live on YouTube, what those are going to look like. So there's the Bud signature that'll be there on the Jersey. And then the patches is just his signature. So very well well done love that design and just love any way that this team can honor bud grant one of the all-time great coaches and the reason the franchise is what it is is that guy so that's kind of the updates of things that came from mark wilf i can't say there was a lot more i mean he was asked about competitive rebuild. He was asked about the Superbowl and,

and this is the 19th year that they've owned the team. And one thing he did say as he was sort of just, you know, it's a lot with the owner of this team. It's a lot of kind of, I'm not going to say anything that gives you guys a big headline and look, I respect it. I respect it. Would you rather have somebody like, I mean, from a reporter perspective, I probably would rather have Jerry Jones just saying crazy things all the time or Jim Irsay. But from your guy's perspective, as fans of the Vikings, you would probably rather have an owner that kind of doesn't make too many waves when he talks. But he did mention on multiple occasions, young players and liking the direction of the team and being on the same

page with Kweisi Adafo Mensah. And I mean, he was never going to come out and say, Oh yes, I love myself a competitive rebuild. In fact, if I could rename myself Mark competitive rebuild, I would like,

he's never going to say stuff like that, but you just got the sense that this is what he wanted. Uh, there was no mention of like, Oh, well, we're really missing Delvin cook in this training camp or something. Um, it just, it feels like this is what they wanted from the outset. And also he was asked about the culture and there is no question about this that the culture has been changed entirely and he talked about it's not just what you see from the players but it's also the entire building there is a different feeling coming into year two with these guys now of course you win 13 games that helps you quite a bit but at the same time it was very toxic by the end of Mike Zimmer's time.

And, uh, Kweisi Delfomenta and Kevin O'Connell have made that quite a bit different. So that's what we got out of Mark Wilf. Again, it's never from Mark Wilf, massive headlines. It's always trying to kind of pick through some sentences and say, you know, what, what is he trying to kind of say here? What's the message that they're getting across? And that's what we came away with. So now throw all of your questions into the chat. Happy to answer any of them. I guess I was expecting a super intense night practice that didn't happen.

And so my only notes were Nikhil Harry keeps catching passes and Ivan Pace keeps getting first team reps. I did see a lot of Ty Chandler with the first team and I expect to see a ton of him. Oh, and I'll give you a one more. It was Dwayne McBride was doing kick returns because Kenny Wong Wu is out with an injury. And that's another thing. Jaqueline Roy also was not practicing. He must be banged up. That's not great because he's gotten off to a pretty good start. Let's see. From Z Lean, are media allowed to attend joint practices?

Hoping to get your take on how Will Levis looks. Yes. Yep. I will be here for the joint practices. Always some of the best from a reporting perspective to see the joint practices, because what the team does is they make them pretty intense. Like these are the preseason games for the starters. And I think why they like them is that there's no tackling. So you reduce the amount of injury that, that happens, but also it is high intensity and you do have a lot of

physical play and you can practice a lot of physical play and you can practice a lot of stuff that you're, you know, you're really wanting to put in as the team and really evaluate some of the players versus another team where those guys are trying and ramping up the energy. So I think you do get a lot out of those joint practices from the sideline watching, and that's kind of the dress rehearsal in a way. Remember how they used to say that about the third preseason game? This is the dress rehearsal that we're going into.

Well, this is the real dress rehearsal is the joint practices between the Titans and then the Cardinals. And later in the month, I'm not sure about the Cardinals joint practices, just from a scheduling perspective, because I'm going to Las Vegas to do a couple of shows out there during around the same time before the third preseason game. But even if I can't make the joint practices, we'll definitely have reporters who are there come on the show while

I'm in Vegas and that sort of thing. I'm not going for a vacation. It's like to do this big event with Circa and I'll be doing shows from there. So, you know, I'll be here for you. Uh, we just may have to move things around anyway. That's later in the month. We'll worry about that. Uh, this comes from Ryan. Why risk Addison at all? And this is a good question. And I will admit, I kind of debated myself on this because on one hand, why risk Addison at all? And I think that that is a very valid point. He has been first team the whole way. Still no Jalen Naylor, by the way. I don't know what's going on there. I mean, it's just Jalen Naylor was expected to be back by the second week of practice and is still not back.

That's odd. He was a guy that came in that looked like he had a chance to, I mean, maybe not compete for wide receiver three the way Jordan Addison is looking, but sort of emerge and be a fourth option, somebody that they could mix into an empty package or something like that, or just be an option if someone is banged up and he has just had no camp because he got hurt on the first day and we haven't seen him at all. And right now the next receiver up, if they had to play a game right now, it might be Brandon Powell. Honestly, he's actually played quite well. And I think that he'll ultimately make the

team he got a lot of compliments today from west phillips and has been quite good but that's not what we expected going into camp that brandon powell would be wide receiver four we'll see when they get nailer back but it wasn't expected to go this long anyway circling back why risk Addison at all is a good question because if he gets hurt Naylor's not been practicing next man ups apart returner who averaged six yards to catch last season like it's not a great situation past the top three when you have these other guys banged up and and you can't get Addison hurt like he is a huge part of what you are going to do this year. At the same time, he is also a rookie and you want him to be ready for week one, ready to make a difference week one. You want him to get some work against another team. You want him to get lined up in the right

spots in your offense, because you know, you'll see from time to time with Jordan Addison Kirk Cousins has to be like hey uh actually it's over there that's where you're supposed to be or you got to line up over there very common with rookies I'm not like calling them out but you want reps you want him playing underneath the lights in Seattle seeing what it's like to play in a real NFL game, kind of get it down before he has to actually go do it at us bank stadium week one. Because even though I think we all look at Tampa Bay, like, I don't know if they're any good, probably not, but their defense is good. And the Vikings are going to have to score to win that game. So you can, you can kind of talk me into either one. Um, I tend to think that they won't play

him a lot, that they will just get him a handful of reps out there, get them a little action, maybe in the first two preseason games, see how it goes. And then they won't play him in the third preseason game. And what you hope is no harm, no foul. But I mean, I have been the most anti play anyone who matters person all the way through the Mike Zimmer era when he would get guys hurt in preseason like Irv Smith I just I don't love it because it is risky if you're talking about running him out there for two series just to get his feet wet I guess you could also argue is that really worth it like what does that really do how about you have them just go

look at the lights in Seattle and not play? So Ryan, I appreciate where you're coming from with that. And I am on the fence, call me on the fence, because if he does get hurt in a preseason game, you're going to be right. And there's always a chance that, you know, he goes up for a catch, comes down, tweaks an ankle or something. I mean, this has happened many times during the Zimmer era. I remember I think it was Mackenzie Alexander got hurt in 2018 training camp. Maybe Trey Wayans got hurt in a preseason game, too. Who needs this? Do these guys need training camp or I'm sorry, preseason?

Do they need preseason games? And if Addison is going to participate in the joint practices, what's the point of having him out there? So I'm, let's say that I'm like 50% second guessing this decision, but not losing my mind over it. From Larry, saw that Brandel is the backup right guard, any chance he could compete for a starting job? I don't think so. I don't think so. Uh, I think that your starting guards are your starting guards, unless they signed Dalton Reisner. And then that could change. But for now it's going to be Cleveland. It's going to be Ingram. This is your offensive line. It is what it is. Blake Brandel is a nice swing player that last year he had to go play left tackle against the bills and was kind of one of the key players in that game. And he can play guard. I think he's a

very intelligent player, a very kind of professional approach guy, but not somebody who really pushes for a starting position. Here's another thing we have to consider too they drafted ed ingram and unless they completely can't stand what they've seen in the offseason we know this we know this song and coaches are always going to be coaches and teams are always going to be teams whether it's zimmer whether it's o'connell whether it's quesadilla fomento whether it's rick spielman they're going to give their draft picks chances if there's any shot that that guy could be good. We saw Laquan Treadwell in 2018 running out there still as the Vikings number three wide receiver. Like this is how it kind of goes. And I don't know which way it's going to go with Ed Ingram, if he's going to struggle or if he's going to improve, but I just

can't see short of signing Dalton Reisner, which I'm still not even sure if that was for the left guard or the right guard, you know, because you could make a case for either one. But short of signing him, who's a starting guy, he's really the only starter out there. You're probably stuck with what you got. And then just look up to the football gods and pray that there's some improvement there, uh, from Ryan, any chance Asamoah and pace playing at the same time? I don't think so. Uh, not from what I've seen. Well, of course, if there's an injury,

maybe. Yeah. Uh, but I think what they want is Jordan Hicks playing pretty much every snap. He's going to be, I think he hasn't said this, but I imagine he's the green dot guy who calls the plays. He's the veteran. He's the highly intelligent player. He's been around a long time. So I would guess that they want him out there as someone who really understands what he's supposed to do,

a high football IQ player, and then paired with a younger player. It just seems like right now that younger player is Ivan Pace Jr. And we'll see if that changes with preseason action or as we go forward, it's too soon to call at the moment, but I think it's a competition between those two and it's not like, can either one of them beat out Jordan Hicks. I'd be very surprised if either one of them would be on the field and not Hicks. And when they do other types of packages, it's always with a safety in there. If they're doing like a hybrid or something, it's Josh Metellus. It's not another linebacker.

So I think that it's either Pace or Asamoah that's going to get that job. Did TJ Hawkinson participate tonight? Yes, but I believe, and I'd have to think about this, I didn't see him doing 11 on 11s or 7 on 7, but he may have. It seems like he's coming along. It's just an illness. I think he'll be fine. There's no big deal with TJ Hawkinson, but he's not going to play tomorrow night. So whatever he's dealing with, he will just get back eventually, and it's not likely to be a big deal.

So anyway, but yeah, I don't think that the TJ Hawkinson thing is a big deal. All right, let me just scroll down here a little bit to Joel. Give me a percentage of making the team if Nikhil Harry continues to flash and have practices like he did the last two nights where he comes up with some impressive catches. I don't think it's impossible, but it depends on health, I think. And remember remember one thing

to keep in mind is that you can keep players who are veterans on your practice squad so if they liked what they saw from nikhil harry they could stash him on the practice squad because if they cut him i just can't see anybody swooping in and saying okay okay, we're going to pick him up because we saw at Matthew Collar's tweets saying that he had made a couple of good catches. Right. Uh, so I think that if he continues to play well and this Jalen Naylor thing lingers, then, and it also depends on Tristan Jackson. I believe that Tristan Jackson has a great chance to be on this team. If he gets back by the end of training camp. And then otherwise, you know, maybe he is on the practice squad again.

And it's crazy how much those practice squad rules have changed everything for how teams can handle situations like this. But the receiving group that I had making the team before Tristan got hurt was obviously the top three starters. And then Jalen Naylor, Brandon Powell and Tristan Jackson. That's how I had it going. And if Tristan can't come back, maybe Nikhil Harry can make a case or if Naylor can't come back, I think he's got a decent chance to make a case to be on this team, but I assume that Jalen Naylor's injury is not mortal. So I think he'll come back and be wide receiver four.

And it's even if Nikhil Harry makes a lot of plays, probably not super likely he's going to be on the team, but he could get one of those practice squad jobs, be a depth player. So maybe you have those six guys and then Nikhil Harry and say Thayer Thomas, who I've brought up a number of times, but I think has looked pretty good in training camp. And he's going to have a big chance, I think, to play during these preseason games. I am very interested, and this is also worth bringing up about Jaron Hall, how Jaron Hall is going to play and his expectations. Tomorrow

night, by the way, preseason preview podcast will be right here. Eight o'clock, our usual time. Jonathan Harrison's going to join. I'm going to bring back the sunglasses for that. We'll do it hot route style and have a good time. From Hunter, are you feeling worried about your Jordan Addison versus KJ Osborne bet? Or do you still feel confident about that? Just being that KJ Osborne would make more catches

than Jordan Addison. Uh, well, I'm not worried about being wrong about something like that. So that's, I mean, that's one thing I know what you're saying, but if he does, he does, I'll buy Andrew Kramer a milkshake. I'm not that concerned about it, but, um, I think that as of right now, I still would go with KJ Osborne with more catches. KJ Osborne has also crushed this camp. He's been great. And of course, we're talking about Addison Moore because we don't know Jordan Addison and he's the first round pick and he's the guy that's going to be more interesting to everybody who's listening or reading.

So that's the intrigue that we want to write about. But Osborne has been very, very good in this training camp. And I still would guess that he is more central to what they're going to do offensively, at least from the outset than Jordan Addison. Now, what we may see as we go along is that, you know, Addison starts to take some of his place and then, you know, by the end of the year, they've caught each other, but there's another part of it too. And I don't want to be morbid at all, but I think if you were saying which player has more of a chance to miss some time due to injury, it's probably Jordan Addison considering what college players have to put

their bodies through. And oftentimes we do see rookie years truncated a little bit by some injuries, just from college to the combine, to getting to the NFL. A lot of times they try to put on a little bit of weight and things like that. It's very hard to play 17 games where KJ Osborne has had a really good health record. But if put it this way, if I was 95 sure kj osborne was gonna lead in receptions i have definitely moved more to like 60 40 after seeing uh jordan addison who just makes catches all the time uh let's see i'm not sure how to pronounce your name grumplins uh kicking comp so it seems now uh matt daniels was asked about this today about the kicking competition and what he said was that greg joseph is going to get the first reps out there and then uh jack pudlesny is going to come in probably in the second preseason game

and get more kicks and he's going to try to make it as even as he possibly can to give them both a chance. But I'm still not convinced fully that it's a true kicking competition. And this continues to be a debate with, I was talking to my friend Judd Zolgad tonight about it. Judd's all in on the kicking competition. You know, what's weird is we haven't seen a lot of reps yet in the kicking competition. I can only think of three times, maybe there was one other, where they did the thing where it's like a final drive and then they have them kick a bunch to simulate different final

drive kicks. I can only think of three times where they've done it. And that doesn't add up to many kicks so far. We are still a month away from when they have to make this decision, essentially. And there's a lot of kicks still to be kicked, booted, you know. So at this moment, not buying it yet, but we'll see as it goes along, because the games are going to matter probably a lot. If Greg Joseph looks like he's off in the games, he did miss quite a few kicks last year.

Pod Lesney has an unreal leg. And if he's, you know, booting them from 60 plus and they get, you know, enamored with his leg last year, that's what happened with Ryan, right? And I think that Matt Daniels does like that part, but you can't ask much more from Greg Joseph than to make a 61 yard or last season. Like he did. Uh, let's see from Aaron. Uh, I hear Lewis scene is looking better question marks, any surprises in the depth chart? Um, I don't know who said that Lewis scene was looking better, but there really hasn't been a lot of signs of progress. In my opinion, it's kind of been a lot of the same. Well, okay. Uh, actually Matt Daniels did say today that he has felt like Louis seen came in with a more professional approach this year and is taking more notes and is more on time. And there's, you know, I, he's got better habits as a professional this year than he did

last year. That is very telling that comment about what was going on last year, but I still don't see any signs of him getting any first team action, any rotational action on like third down packages or anything like that. And that's what I'm going to look for. It's very hard to tell with coverages. Was he supposed to do this? Was he supposed to do that? But the other day, there was kind of a tough play for him that did stand out where he took a bad angle to a play and would have given up a really long completion. I just don't know with Lewis Seen. It might take longer. It might never happen. It might be next week that it clicks in and they start using it more. But I think as of right now, set your expectations to Louis scene as a special teams player, uh, for 2023. And then if that changes, then that changes. Um, let's see.

Sorry. Let me scroll. I love that. I love that. there's so many questions that i have to keep scrolling um let's see they do not need pre-season that i don't necessarily agree with because i think that this team actually does in some situations not a lot of situations like the offensive line we know who those guys are her cousins justin jefferson these people don't need to do anything harrison Smith, they're fine. But, you know, do you want to see some corners get some action? I do. I want to see the corners go out there and compete with real wide receivers because these guys haven't proven a thing in the NFL.

I want to see, I mean, Jordan Addison is one where I'm a little sketch on seeing, but I want to see depth wide receivers play. I definitely want to see backup running backs because if nobody emerges from the backup running back group, then it's Alexander Madison, 275 carry season is what's going to happen. So I I'm a little bit intrigued by that, uh, by quite a few different things with this team. They also drafted a quarterback and now we get to see him play football. My expectations based on how he's practiced over the last few days are not very high for Jaron Hall. I think he's kind of struggling to get it a little bit, but still he's going to get a chance to go play in a real game and we get to see him. And so there is a lot of intrigue

across the roster. There are a lot of players also fighting for spots. I mean, along the defensive line, a lot of guys fighting for depth spots, again, the wide receiver spot corner depth corner, who's going to be there. So there is some, and that's not as important with this team as the joint practices,

which I think are a huge deal for determining some of those battles, but it's not just battles for this guy's here and this guy's here in the depth chart. It's also battles for how we want to use you. How many snaps are you going to get? Are you a rotational player? Are you a bench player? Uh, so those things, um, those things matter, I think. So this is a much more intriguing preseason than any other one that I've covered probably ever. Because usually it's only about the deep on the depth chart kind of guys. And hey, if Louis seen, you know, starts to go out there and make a bunch of plays, then he can make more of a case for himself.

Where was Jaqueline Roy? That I don't know. They don't have to tell us. And we didn't talk to Kevin O'Connell today. And when it comes to the injury reports, we kind of have to just wait till we talk to the coach again and get an update on the guys. And Kevin O'Connell is very good at giving those updates. So we don't have to hunt around and I don't know,

have Ian Rappaport call 50 agents or something. We usually just get updates from Kevin O'Connell. So that's what we'll be waiting for next week. If we don't see him, if he comes back, then we'll know it was just a little Nixon cuts. Uh, let's see from JP. Don't you think Kweisi and Kevin will be more honest than past regimes and say we made a mistake versus deflecting and playing Ed Ingram in hopes of making themselves look good. First and foremost, that don't really know, to tell you the truth. I don't.

Because there were times last year where I thought, there is absolutely no way Chris Reid is worse. And that's just history. That's just Chris Reid playing football in the NFL. There's no way Chris Reid was worse than what Ed Ingram was doing last year. And they stuck with it. And they stuck with it. And they stuck with it and they stuck with it and they stuck with it. Here's another point to be made on the offensive line.

It's really the O-line coach who makes these determinations. I mean, yes, the head coach has the ultimate power to step in and say, no, I'm pulling that guy out. But if the offensive line coach believes in him, if the front office drafted him and wants to give him as many chances, Kevin O'Connell doesn't have to do that. But a lot of times they are going to believe in the upside of a player and continue to play him because all NFL front offices and all coaching staffs do this. They evaluate the player's skillset of which Ed Ingram has a lot of natural

skill. I think more than we do on the outside, where we look at the tangible, Hey, this was a miss block. But what coaches often think is that they can fix those things. And we're going to find out if that's true or not, if they can fix those things or not with Ed Ingram, but they often look at here's the pedigree of the player. Here's the raw skill. And that's why you've seen bad offensive linemen over the years stay in for years before they finally you know pull the shoot on a guy because they believe we just need to fix this we just need to coach him up and that might be true but i would not say when it comes to football that there's any less hubris of we can fix them or we're going to stick

with them because our guy just because quayse da flamenza and kevin o'connell have a better culture and maybe a little bit more of a uh i don't know what you like intentional approach with you know the numbers and everything else but if those numbers were driving decisions completely with the coaching staff, they would have taken Ed Ingram out last year. So I can't guarantee that you would like that. What you're saying, you would like that. That would be the right way to do it. But there's always like football guys or football guys kind of at their core.

So I'm going to have to see that to know whether that's the case or not. But I would say, I mean, they didn't admit the Ed Donatello mistake last year when all of us knew halfway through the season, you guys should maybe admit the Ed Donatello mistake and move on. From Daniel. Nice to see you again, Daniel. Let's see. Do you think besides Murphy Jr. that they will play all the cornerbacks and see what they have or both Murphy and Evan sit. I am curious to see, I wouldn't be shocked if they, and this could be somewhat up to Brian Flores too, and not just Kevin O'Connell. Cause I think Brian Flores is really head coach defense on this team. I see Kevin O'Connell with the

quarterbacks all day long and Brian Flores with the defense all day long at practice. So there may be some of his decision making who he wants to see. But I think with when you're changing a defensive scheme that you might want one of your leaders out there if you're going to have the other corners. So when they were practicing today, they had all of their first team, you know, back seven, whatever you call it. Um, you know, the, the defensive backs and linebackers all together with the first group. I don't know if that means they're going to play them all. Cause I wouldn't play Harrison Smith for anything. Uh, make sure that he is not anywhere near that football field. He will be fine, but Byron Murphy is a young player and is going to be asked to be a leader on the defense.

Maybe they would want to play him a little bit. I would prefer that they just have somebody else in there at nickel corner and have McKay Blackman, Caleb Evans play, have Juwan Williams play and kind of go from there with the secondary and see how it plays out. Andrew Booth Jr. was back tonight, so he's back healthy. We shouldn't completely count him out. He's going to have a chance to step up and play as well. But the way that it's played out, I wouldn't be surprised if Murphy didn't play. And it was Makai Blackman actually at nickel corner because he's been playing there with the second team. If he gets

some reps there and maybe we do see Andrew Booth Jr. on the outside. That is very possible. All right, let's see. Oh, this is a good question. Let me go to this one. Attack of the Lumble. I don't know what that is. How was Andre Carter looking? I saw some nice reps from him when he was playing.

Yeah, I think that there have been a couple of times where I have really noticed Andre Carter. And first of all, it's one of those off the bus things with Andre Carter where you just go, oh, if someone is looking face to face with the Neil Hunter, that is someone I need to pay attention to. He's a very large man and has a huge wingspan and has some jolt to his game. He's got some burst to his game. The thing that it looks like

to me is when he's coming off the edge, and this is based on only a handful of reps that I've watched, some that he's won and some that he's lost is if he beats the guy instantly with his quickness and length, just kind of either like makes a one move or goes around him. Uh, he's going to get to the quarterback and create a pressure he had a really nice one tonight not in pads but a nice one uh tonight where he just blew by the tackle with his just sheer quickness and somebody that size with that quickness is really something to see but there's a lot of other times where it's all right i made my first move and the lineman's in front of me and now i just kind of don't do anything. That's what he's going to have to learn.

And I wouldn't be shocked if he made the team because they don't want to lose him. And he's an intriguing prospect. But I think if they can, he'd probably be on the practice squad and maybe someone who's played a little more like Luigi Villain is in. But just based on his physical ability as a depth player to start out and to develop over the year is probably fine. I don't think you want him playing yet. This is a guy I think needs to be over multiple off seasons, you know, getting a chance to really develop. Let's see, um, from man, a scrogger what's weaker d-line or corner that's a good question because weak is like a relative term when we look at the players on the defensive line they're all proven

marcus davenport um dean lowry harrison phillips kairos tanga has still got you know some question marks but he's played in the league and we've seen what he can do. And I think he could be a good player. And then, of course, Daniel Hunter is a great player and is a star. So we know what all those guys are. They're not particularly young. Tonga is young, but nobody else. Jonathan Bullard. None of those guys are really young. They're veterans. But they're not a really super imposing group where they're going to get 20 sacks or something like that among them, aside from Daniel Hunter getting his double digits, but among the rest of them, your expectations are fairly low. Maybe Davenport who looks to me like he's having a fine camp. Maybe Davenport, you know,

could be the guy who steps up. So there's question marks about how good that can be. But I also think that we could probably pretty accurately predict that it's going to be a middling defensive line, if not below average defensive line on the whole. The cornerback group, it's a lot more variance. So a Caleb Evans, for example, I'm very intrigued by a Caleb Evans. He just runs so well for somebody at his height. He's very fast he i think is gonna have to learn to play the ball a little bit more but what i've seen so far his natural skill is there mckay

blackman an intriguing guy that they absolutely loved and made a big bet on in the draft and now they want him to start well does that mean it's great because he's starting as a rookie or does that mean it's bad because like they don't have anybody else and they have to start a third round rookie? Like, I guess you could look at it either way. So I think there's a lot more questions where maybe these guys who they draft are good. And in the secondary, they all of a sudden create a good secondary. I think we know what the defensive line is. So that's a good question, but you know,

there's, um, uh, you know, I think that they're very different positions based on the age of the cornerback group versus the age of the defensive line. Uh, Nikhil Harry is a good blocker as is KJ. You think that there could be a package that takes advantage of that. I don't know about that. I think that if Nikhil put it this way, if Nikhil Harry is playing in the real games, that means something went pretty wrong. It means that somebody got hurt, multiple people got hurt, and he's had to be bumped up likely from the practice squad. If they keep them around, I think he's made a case to stay around early on. And we'll see what happens in the preseason games and so forth.

But he's been playing good football and making catches in these first few practices and standing out a little bit. And because he's been in the league before and he's been on teams before, I think that automatically shows you, all right, well, he can at least play some NFL football, catch 30 passes, catch a handful of passes from the bears last year, but not somebody that you want as far as like, he's playing a lot or you're having him in to have some special package. You want a much more as an inactive on game day guy, break glass in case of emergency. And then you got to play him the way the injuries are piling up so far that might be the case but i think you want that not to be the case uh he is you know a huge guy for a wide receiver no question about that but also

jordan addison's been coming along as a blocker kevin o'connell brought that up more likely if you're looking for more blocking what they'll'll do is have Josh Oliver and then TJ Hawkinson out as a wide receiver. That probably would be the case. So from not really sure how to say your name, but right now it seems like the coach doesn't trust anyone, but Madison at running back, is it safe to say he'll get 80% of the plays as of this moment? I would say, yes, I would say 80% of the plays unless he gets banged up. It just, I agree with you. It just doesn't seem like there's much trust there for Ty Chandler and Kenny Wong Wu getting hurt as a real detriment to his chances, even for a few days. I mean, you fall behind with the

offense and then it's trying to play catch up. It's really difficult. And they also need to be able to trust you to be RB2, to be in the game. And I don't mean to sound like Mike Zimmer with the availability, but you have to be in there if you're going to win a battle, right? So Ty Chandler, I think is going to look really great in some of these preseason games and maybe we'll make a case, but I don't know if we've seen yet and look, we're a month away. So there's still time. These things change, but at this moment, it seems like they're hesitant to say, oh yeah, we got this rotation. It's going to be great. And I don't think that their practice reps really suggest that there's going to be a rotation as of right now it looks to me like alexander madison is your guy and that's you know where we're going um let's see from uh at least

right now again right now those two guys run four threes so they could change that uh daniel asks uh like the nba comparison of jj being vince Addison, uh, being, uh, Crawford. Oh yeah. From the other day with Ben Gessling, by the way, once again, as always download, uh, the podcast version on iTunes, Spotify, there's additional podcasts there. If you like this and you're watching on YouTube, make sure you go there as well. Download those shows and, uh, enjoy because there's a lot of interviews from TCO performance center and stuff. Even talked with Matt Daniels a few weeks back. So, uh, very cool stuff. download those shows and enjoy it because there's a lot of interviews from TCO Performance Center

and stuff. Even talked with Matt Daniels a few weeks back. So very cool stuff. Anyway, who is Hawkinson? Sean Kemp. No, no, no, no, no. No, Hawkinson is not Sean Kemp. Sean Kemp is like one of the most physically imposing players of all time. I mean, just like one of the most freak athlete. Oh my God. Like that's Rob Gronkowski. Rob Gronkowski is Sean Kemp, this unstoppable force of nature. And if the guy had maybe, you know, kept his body in a little better shape later into his career, he would have had a longer career. I think TJ Hawkinson is like, um, gosh, he's, I mean, he's just a very solid and smart player and his physical skill is quality, but it's not through the roof. How about like a Richard Jefferson? Richard Jefferson was just this solid quality player for a long time. Good athlete, but not like Vince Carter athlete, quality, secondary type of player.

Those New Jersey Nets teams that made the NBA finals. I like that. I like that for, uh, for Hawkinson for an NBA comparison. Um, Hunter asked percentage chance, the Vikings go out and sign a veteran running back for depth. I think we're, if we're going to see it, we're going to see it soon. Doesn't look like they're in the Kareem hunt race at all. If there is a Kareem hunt race, but he's going to Indianapolis for a visit. He was in new Orleans. The Vikings have not been mentioned even a little bit. And they signed Abram Smith. Who's from the XFL. That was their signing to bring in someone else with Kenny Wong Wu banged up. Just doesn't seem like they're looking at veteran running backs as an answer here that they want to sink or swim a little bit with these backups.

And, you know, maybe, um, oh no, did, did we make a mistake on the Ben Gessling episode? Oh, I'm sorry about that. A comment 52 brings up that we did not say Jim Zorn in my brain. I thought we said Jim Zorn. I'm sorry about that. Comet 52 brings up that we did not say Jim Zorn. In my brain, I thought we said Jim Zorn. I'm sorry about that. That was a mistake on our part. For some reason, I thought that we had backup pass rushers live in action. We seem thin. Yes. And that's where I'm curious if they get Andre Carter right into these games. He's only had a few practices, but hey, no better time than the present to get him in. Luigi Villain is a guy who kind of intrigued last year, but I don't know if there's anything more there as far as a ceiling.

Patrick Jones has looked fine to me. I don't think there's anything different with DJ Wanham, but Patrick Jones is a guy who has a chance to kind of make his case. So maybe he'll, you know, get a chance to play a lot in these preseason games and somebody like him could crush these preseason games because he's good enough to get into games and be a player. But you know, in preseason games, he might be going up against guys that are just inferior competition. So, um, let's see. Uh, I was going to ask your opinion on how the intriguing this preseason is. I think it's a lot and you know what, Kevin O'Connell might prove me completely wrong and just not play anyone. It's all third stringers.

And then I'll say, sorry, guys, nothing to see here. But I really do think that we're going to see more guys play than we did last year, probably by a lot. And we're going to see, I don't know if it's going to determine races, but at least factor into depth chart races. And last year, that was just really not the case at all. During Zimmer's time, it was with those guys down the roster, but they had so many veterans that it wasn't like we were saying,

who's going to be the starting corner? Here's a big battle. Right now, there is a battle for starting corner. So that's quite a bit different. From David, I think it's pretty obvious what they paid Carter and Pace as undrafted free agents, not wanting to have them picked up that they will make the team. Who do you think that forces out as far as defensive ends?

That's a good question. Let me call up the depth chart here and see if I can think about this for a second. Who would that force out? Because I had them still keeping 10 or 11, but I think I had James Lynch. He tore his ACL. So then maybe 10 defensive linemen in total. And I was counting outside linebackers. Uh, the guy who would seem to be potentially odd man out would be Luigi Valen for somebody who I think is very much on the cusp. The other one is a Sazia Tomo. I had him initially making the

team, but just have not seen a whole heck of a lot from him. And, uh, he's another one that has to step up. Um, but I don't know. I mean, Curtis Weaver, Benton Whitley. I, I think that they planned to have Andre Carter as a part of this 53. I agree with you in your assessment that they didn't spend $300,000 on those guys for vibes. Like they spent them to have them be on this team. Let's see with McBride fumbling. I mean, that was an issue for a couple of days. It really hasn't been since then.

And Kenny banged up any chance we bring back Delvin. No, 0%. Nope, no chance. No chance. 0.1%. When Kweisiilla fomento was asked about that in the the first press conference he was like uh yeah i mean i guess like in some world i can't say never but i mean it was kind of obvious that you just no they're not bringing back delvin cook and And also you can't, you can't just have Madison set, get this contract and say, you're our guy and you're our number one and we

love you. And here you go. Here's this job from, from the outset, and then get a little bit concerned about your backups and go, you know what? Why don't you come back? Delvin? I just think it's a bad idea. Not only that, but I just don't think that he's all that effective anymore. And that's a big part of it, or at least he was not effective, um, under O'Connell system. Let's see. Bold prediction from, uh, MN Jalo. Ed Ingram will be decent this year. He played better near the end of the season, not by the numbers he didn't um so that's the thing i mean maybe to your eye if you were watching him closely uh it felt that way uh but i will call this up and we can take a look at it but i don't believe that he actually did play

better by the pff numbers uh let's see maybe a little let me include the priest of the post-season game. Maybe a little, maybe, maybe you're right. And no, not really. Um, he had, he actually did have two good games by the PFF numbers, Indianapolis and Chicago last game of the year. But that was just nonsense in the playoff game. He allowed five pressures and graded a 28 and his overall grade was as low as TJ Clemmings from a few years ago. That's not good. That's not good at all. I can show, I think I can, can I screenshot this screen share? Let me see if I can screen share to show you guys the game by game by PFF. Um, so you can take a look at it here. Can see that all right um there we go there's the full screen as you can see so if you could just kind of see the colors the red is bad the green is good the yellow is pretty bleh and yes there's a lot of there's a lot of red in this general area so

it's really horrendous to start the season so technically yeah i would say he did get better um where there's some meh games in here, but nothing inspiring. And especially that playoff game is pretty concerning. So yeah, but you know, I don't think that your bold prediction is crazy. I just, you know, always want to kind of go and look at those things. So there were a couple of decent games, but I don't know. I just can't make this bet because I've, I've just heard this

many times before. Well, he's going to take the next step. And David says he agrees year two is when O-line may make the big jumps that might be true, or they might never make a jump. It's just, it's just hard to know. And I am not super confident after the fact that they were bringing in somebody potentially to compete. But that doesn't mean it won't. It doesn't mean it won't. It's just like you could say the same thing after all the guys who have been bad in their first year.

You could say like after Treadwell, we did the same thing. Well, Treadwell was bad last year, but now he ran to learn to run routes. So here we go. Or we have seen it sometimes, but at least in year one with Christian Derrissaw, we saw those flashes. I mean, when you have a 42 pass blocking grade by PFF and you lead the league in sacks and pressures allowed,

that's a long way to go before you end up being even average. So even if he takes a big jump and he's average, that's good. But it's like a long way to average if you're grading in the TJ Clemmings range. So let's just call me skeptical. I think it's possible. Put it that way. 44 Rhino man.

Nice to read of Tonga having a great camp and Phillips, but worried interior pressure. Where is interior pressure coming from? Unless you feel that's where Davenport has been playing inside. Yeah. Davenport is playing inside in those, um, just in those pressure packages on like third downs. Uh, and, and that's pretty much the only time that he's playing inside. So it will be Tonga Phillips, Dean Lowry, some combination of those guys, depending on the package. Somebody will probably rotate out. I would guess Tonga is in there on first down

and then you maybe have Dean Lowry come in second down. I'm not sure exactly. Depends on how they want to play, who they're playing. Tonga has had a good time. He can get after the passer a little, but you are right. The interior pressure is something that they have just not emphasized with this group or

at the end of the Zimmer-Spielman. I don't know why. It might be because they love to play nickel and dime packages so much. They want big guys stuffing the run. But maybe also interior pressure is harder to find than you think. Look at the guys who do it. Well, they get a ton of money. So that might be part of it. Daniel, are we really trying to make Nikhil Harry a thing? Well, that's kind of what we do, right? I mean, that's kind of what we do in the preseason. We kind of try to make somebody a thing.

Jeff Hornacek for, for TJ Hawkinsckinson i think he's a little more physically imposing than jeff hornacek right uh maybe i mean he put up all those numbers last year maybe he's carl malone but i was just thinking like sean kemp was just such a just like full speed six foot ten high flying i don't know if that's tj hock, but I don't know if I would downgrade him all the way to Jeff Hornacek, Robert Ori. Okay. I like Robert Ori. That's a good comparison. That's good. Maybe if he comes up with the, the clutch catches and things like that. Um, I don't believe that TJ Hawkinson is holding in. No, I, I think he just probably has an, uh, whatever, you know, gets sick for a couple of days. He was still out there. He just wasn't doing 11 on 11s. Uh, anybody know what the contract length is for an undrafted free agent? Yeah. Um, I don't know

exactly. I would have to look, but if you get an undrafted free agent, there's this other designation where it's E RFA. And I forget how this whole thing works, but if you hit it on a UDFA, I mean, you've got them for a long time. Like you're, you're going to have, you're going to have them for a while. It's not something you need to worry about. It's probably four years, I would guess, but I'm not a hundred percent sure offhand how that works. It just hasn't come up very often to tell you the truth. Let's see Hunter. I'm worried that outside of Derrissaw and O'Neal, the offensive line is going to be horrible. If the line is the same as last year and Bradbury regresses, it could be pretty bad. That is probably why Dalton Reisner made his trip here. And that is true. And I don't know what you're supposed to do about that, but I would also say that

we can't just look at this one weakness and be like, Oh, well, that's the reason you didn't have a great offense again. And yes, it could be bad, but it's also on Kevin O'Connell to have a whole off season to look at this and figure out some answers. Is it not? I mean, we know there's going to be a lot of pressure on guards when Kirk cousins is your quarterback and when you have deeper dropbacks. So I'm, I might think that Josh Oliver plays a role in this as well, maybe as a blocker, but also as a change up for running play actions, running bootlegs. They just did not have any, any, uh, this is, this is fine. Hold on. I, I, I, I'm laughing at this comment already before I finished my thought. I'm trying not to do that. I try to

focus one at a time. Um, but I, I think that they really didn't have any success running those play actions and bootlegs last year, and they want to this year, and that could take a little pressure off of the guards. That was always the counter for Stefanski and for Gary Kubiak. But at the end of the day, at the end of the day, you got a third down in 10 and you got to block guys on the interior where they're going to send all these pressures. And if it is bad, then it is, it's still going to be a problem. And they don't really have an answer from hunter a serious question should matt daniels be fined because he lied to us last year about the preseason punt off and this is what i'm laughing about i remember this where he said there was going to be a punt off and then there

wasn't they just cut the guy and that was it and then it was ryan wright's job now also matt daniels made a mistake today in his preseason. Yeah. Pre preseason game press conference. He said that, um, Greg Joseph has always had competition in training camp and like through his whole career. He's a guy that every single summer he's always had competition. I was like, wait a minute. He didn't have any competition last year. So a funny little door to miscue because of course, Greg Joseph is that kind of guy. He's always been a fringe kicker. Most kickers have had competition, but I was just laughing. Cause I'm like, I don't think Greg Joseph has actually ever had competition until this year with a pod Lesney. I like Dan Marley for tj hawkins so you guys are just picking white

three-point shooters um i don't i don't know if that's quite it uh but dan marley was a really great player so i like that he was a great player he was more of an all-around player than just a three-point shooter that's that's more of the range of player i'm thinking of not some wild freak show like uh sean kemp who's one of my favorite players of all time but is just out of this world athletic um let's see uh from aaron am i the only one who shocked delvin hasn't been picked up yet he must want a pretty big payday not terribly i mean just look at the other running backs i mean they're just okay at UDF phase, get a three-year deal, but then they're, they're a restricted free agent where you get the, it's like equal rights, free agent

or something, something like that. I forget what it is. It's like an E RFA. I'm trying to think off the top of my head exactly what this is, but it's basically four years, whatever E stands for a free agent where the team is the only one negotiating with you or something like that. Yeah. I I'm I, I should, I should study my CBA close enough to have all the undrafted free agent contracts memorized, but I guess I was short on that one. Is Brandon Powell, the 2018 Aldrick Robinson. I love that comparison. Probably Hawk is like Scotty Pippen. Okay. I like that because he's like a solid player. He doesn't have one thing that he does super crazy well, but he is like a good all around type of player. Uh, okay. Now you guys are

getting out of control. TJ Hawkinson, Kyle Corver. Stop it. Stop it with that. Just all the three point shooters. What is the three point shot for Hawkinson? Is that like his nine yard check down or whatever? I'm sorry. Uh, exclusive rights. That's what it's called. Thank you. I appreciate that exclusive rights. Um, that's what it is. So I'm glad that you're here to explain this first name, last name. If you sign a rookie contract player, cut him from another team, then that would end up before year three. Okay.

Yeah. Exclusive rights. Got it. Okay. This has not been on my mind, but I guess it should be for these guys. But yeah, if they're good, you'll have them for a while. Don't worry about it. Like you'll have them for a while.

Anyway. So tomorrow night, eight o'clock. Oh, okay. One more question to answer. Let me get this in pistol Pete Mara. Come on. Um, pistol Pete, uh, was so creative with the basketball is TJ Hawkins. Sort of like a truck. He's like a Ford Ranger. He's just plows along, uh, from Pablo. Do you prefer a Caleb Evans or Mackay Blackman? Well, a Caleb Evans has a little bit more seasoning. I mean, a Caleb Evans fits what you think a outside corner looks like he's tall, he's lanky, he's fast. So he has those athletic traits. When you see Mackay Blackman, you go, is that an outside corner? Are you sure he's a little bit smaller, but he's a really good player as far as, you know, being aggressive,

physical stuff like that. I don't want to call him like the next Antoine Winfield, but sometimes these smaller guys are really feisty. We saw from Duke Shelley last year, but I'm not sure until we get a sample size on either one of them. They've both never really played. So I think that Evans is maybe more physically gifted and Blackman might be a little more technically talented and we'll see how that ends up playing out. Yeah, they did sign someone last year, but cut them before camp started with the kicker. And they also had this guy, Riley Patterson, who may have kicked for the lions a little bit. He was two years ago, but Patterson basically never kicked. So essentially Greg Joseph has never had competition until now. And so I'm not like calling out Matt Daniels. I'm just saying that

it is notable that there's legitimate competition and we'll see how that goes. Do I think that Flores will unleash some blitzes on Thursday? I kind of don't, maybe a little bit, maybe a little bit. I don't think that you're going to walk away from the preseason game going, whoa, Flores showed all those blitzes because you don't really want to do that. Um, I think you want to play really basic stuff, but he's got to do some right. Because he wants to evaluate his own players. A little bit of a, a little bit of a tough thing to balance. So anyway, uh, great stuff guys tonight as always. And a reminder later on this month, I'm going to be traveling out to Circa in Las Vegas.

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more details. Again, that's going to be fun that I'll be going out there later this month. I think it's going to be like 110, so that'll be great. But for this that I'll be going out there later this month. I think it's going to be like 110. So that'll be great. But for this, I'll be broadcasting from there. So it'll be a great time. So make sure you look into that if you want to come out as well. And then in December, I'm also going to be staying at Circa. You'll hear more about that as we go along, as they are a great sponsor to the show. So thanks, everybody, for listening.

Tomorrow night, we are going hardcore preseason preview. You know, you want to be there for that. So I will talk to you all then. Thanks so much again for all of your viewer participation.